Unwasted Pain
Join us on a thought-provoking journey as we delve into the depths of human experience and explore the intricacies of unwasted pain. In our podcast, "Unwasted Pain," we tackle the universal yet often misunderstood topic of pain and provide insights, support, and guidance for those seeking to navigate the challenges it presents.
Unwasted Pain
From Broken to Beautiful
Have you ever wondered how to navigate through life's most challenging moments with grace, compassion, and mercy? How does one journey from a place of brokenness to a place of beauty and restoration? Sharing our own personal experiences, we'll guide you through the transformative journey of starting High Point Church and how we handled the crisis ignited by a viral 20-year-old story.
While we were not the authors of this story, it sparked a crisis that tested our resilience and faith. Our church slogan, "a perfect place for imperfect people," became our guiding principle as we learned to respond to adversity with compassion rather than combativeness. Unearthing the concept of "invite, don't fight," we'll reveal how this philosophy can be applied in various life situations, and reflect on its profound impact on our children.
Finally, we'll share the healing process that began when we acknowledged our part in our circumstances rather than blaming others. Highlighting the importance of journaling to connect the dots, we'll discuss the power of shifting our perception and trusting in God's promise for restoration and hope in the face of adversity. Join us as we reflect on the power of forgiveness, the value of obedience and humility, and the boundless promise of God's restoration.
Welcome back to Unwasted Pain. I'm Karen Conlee and I'm here with Chris, my husband, and best friend, co-laborer in this crazy world, and I don't know if in the shot is our sweet dog, moe I don't know if he's in that shot or not, but he usually is here by our feet for most of these podcasts, so it's great to have you guys back joining us for this episode.
Karin Conlee:Chris, you've entitled this particular episode from broken to beautiful, and that's really kind of a title that has been tossed around in our world for the last couple of years and one of the things we've talked about it actually reminds me of like a compliment sandwich or like something nice and then the hard and then the nice.
Karin Conlee:It kind of applies to the broken to beautiful, and so, as you have created this podcast, really wanting to bring purpose not only to our pain, but to help people realize that any pain that they experience, that it's not wasted and that there are things that we can take from those journeys and apply to the future, that we have to make it even better than we would have had, minus the broken things that we've walked through in life. But in that way, just for a moment, I know we've talked about different things that have occurred in your childhood and family. You surprised me a few minutes ago and said, oh, I was like, so what are we talking about today? And he's like, oh, a little bit of our high point story and so maybe to kind of start out with the beautiful part, just give those that are listening maybe they are or aren't familiar with our previous ministry but kind of paint the picture and then obviously can apply it to so many different situations of brokenness.
Chris Conlee:Yeah, I mean, I think one of my purposes in life is to surprise you. I know, I know.
Chris Conlee:So you know as we go back and you know, I think maybe we left off a little bit with just how God had called us to ministry when I was in college and then, you know, we got married shortly thereafter and in the process of that God really spoke his vision to us about the city of Memphis, and the way that that vision materialized was High Point Church, that he gave us a vision to start a church. We named it High Point and really just saw the hand of God upon the church in such an extraordinary way, a remarkable favor. I mean. I remember our very first Sunday night service. The auditorium sat 300. We had 432 show up. You know, our very first Sunday morning service, we had like 638 show up and really just everything that we put our hand to, god just blessed and really, looking back upon it, you know, in many ways, as we were young I think at that time when we started the church I was 29, you were 27. And we didn't really even comprehend how much God was blessing. But we had this slogan a perfect place for imperfect people, and it really became a very, very beautiful expression of reaching the unreached, reaching people who had been broken, people who maybe were not interested in church, kind of the unchurched, the de-churched, and really through that we were able to really present just who Jesus is as the friend of sinners and that you know that's a unique term because of all the names of God. It's really one given to him by the religious people, by the religious leaders, as a criticism. But what we really saw was that the people that were most unlike Jesus liked Jesus the most and that Jesus could be in this community of sinners. You know tax collectors, you know drunkards, prostitutes, that kind of thing but yet never compromise who he was.
Chris Conlee:And so as we went into that and built this church, really the vision became love works and just trying to make it as simple as possible, love God plus love people equals love works. And in through the years we saw God do extraordinary things where this church continued to grow and really got to a place where we would literally average and kind of our three different campuses. You know about 30 people every Sunday trusting Christ, seeing people baptized and just celebrating their stories. And so I can't say enough good things about all the ways that God went before us, paved the way, created, blessing, created vision, changed lives, transformed lives and really was what I believe to be a unique work of God that not only was growing High Point Church but, I believe, making a difference in the city of Memphis and giving us an opportunity to try to influence other churches, nonprofits and, obviously, business leaders, everyone. And so you know. I just want to affirm, before we talk about broken, just how incredibly beautiful it really was.
Chris Conlee:But as we go through life, there are times that crisis happens, there's times that a storm happens, where you know we had lots of sunny, pretty days, but an unexpected storm came. And for the sake of honoring all people involved, respecting all people involved, I don't necessarily want to get into the particular details. If you ever have a chance, you know, to live through a story like this, it's just important the way that we respond. And the way that we respond is trying to elevate compassion, elevate grace, elevate mercy and just try to respond the way that Jesus would respond. And so in this, this storm came, and I do think it's important to say this because sometimes, when you don't give all the details, people can assume the worst.
Chris Conlee:But it was a story that went viral. It was a story where it was a 20-year-old story and a lot of people were hurt 20 years ago, and then it was a story that, just as it went viral, a lot of people continued to be hurt, and it was something where, though it was not really our story, that was the catalyst for this crisis, and I think it's important to say, just for the sake of assumptions, that I don't believe we did anything immoral or unethical, but we could have done things better. There were definitely ways we could have led better. There were definitely ways we could have been more even sensitive, understanding, compassionate, gracious. So we were trying to do everything right, but even when you're trying to do everything right, sometimes you don't, and sometimes you just get things wrong. If I were to look at it in a Monday morning quarterback kind of way, there's a lot of things that I would prefer to do differently, but what resulted was, after about six months of this crisis, we were asked to leave the church, and that was devastating.
Chris Conlee:This is a church that God used us to start, and we put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into this church.
Chris Conlee:We loved the people dearly. Yes, love this city, and it was. It was everything, and so I would just say it's really hard to articulate and put into words the level of devastation, and so there was something incredibly beautiful, and when crisis came and it became broken because it was so beautiful, the brokenness was overwhelming, but you and I, we had to find God's perspective in the midst of the brokenness. And one of the things that we've always taught and sometimes, when you teach, things come back to haunt you in how you have to obey them. But we always taught that my response is my responsibility and, as we apply that to this situation, it required us to respond in some ways that, honestly, weren't consistent with my temperament, not consistent with my personality or my preferences, but God spoke some things to us that it was undeniable, that it was Him and it was something that you and I committed to obey, but it was something that was the long road instead of the short road.
Karin Conlee:Yeah, and Chris, as you share, obviously, that kind of recap of our wilderness experience. You know we have a few years behind us now, it's you know that chapter is closing and closed.
Chris Conlee:Yeah, it's been five years.
Karin Conlee:Yeah, and but I, as I look at it in the rearview mirror, as you said, I just think, for, you know, everybody feels like their crisis is unique and in some ways, when we talk about pain, that everybody feels like their pain is unique and in some ways it is always unique and in some ways it is never unique.
Karin Conlee:That, you know, it's kind of.
Karin Conlee:The enemy doesn't have a thousand different tools and his tool belt it's, you know, much fewer than those.
Karin Conlee:So I just say, for anybody it may be very different than what our situation was, but whether it's your identity being questioned or your character being questioned or betrayal, you know, feeling like you're being misrepresented, like those kinds of things are pretty universal, that when something is hard, it's usually, you know, is it your finances and you're, you know we were without a job, is it how people perceive you and not being able to defend yourself. And you know there's just whether that's in a marriage ending or a custody battle, or in being fired from a job or even a rumor about you know, there's just so many different ways that we can say, okay, the circumstances may be different, but honestly, I think what I hope and I pray from this conversation and from just this podcast, that those universal truths will help people. That if you're in the middle of the storm, that you don't become more of a problem in the storm. I don't know if that's a good way to say that.
Chris Conlee:It's very legitimate. There's a quote I don't know where it originates that only two things happen when you throw mud, you lose a lot of ground and you get dirty at the same time. In our particular situation, this happens so unexpectedly as far as in the sense of us being asked to leave, and then you know unexpectedly and quickly, like immediately, that all these feelings just flood you and it's hard to suppress the feelings that want to rise up and fight. But it's even hard to understand this, some theologically. But looking back, I think even God prepared me for the crisis. Now, that doesn't mean he wanted it to play out the way that he did, the way that it did. I think he prepared me and he gave everyone an opportunity to make a different choice. But unfortunately that didn't happen. And he had spoken to me a couple weeks earlier.
Chris Conlee:From Zachariah, chapter 4, verses 6 through 10. And it says not by my nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord. And then it says this mountain shall become a plane, it shall become flat when you shout grace to it. And God gave me a phrase.
Chris Conlee:Now, I didn't anticipate that the phrase would be used in this way at all. I thought it was more for our critics not necessarily people close to me or people on the inside, but it was invite, don't fight. And when we were told you weren't at the meeting but when I was told that they were firing me, releasing me, I was asked the question do you have anything to say? And I remember very specifically I said I have lots to say, but this was just put in the form of a decision, not a discussion. And it was a situation where if anyone knows my background and obviously you're learning this I mean it's kind of a blue collar underdog. I mean I was literally taught to fight and the TSAA and my senior year high school sent me a letter and told me if I got another fight in sports I'd be in an eligible arrest of the year.
Karin Conlee:I mean I that's why we never would have dated if we'd known each other in high school. It's 100% true.
Chris Conlee:So I had a temperament that a situation like this. I was trained and fought. Just you know you'd be tough enough, strong enough and you fight your way out of this. But what happened? That particular day when I was asked this question, the verse came back to my mind and this phrase that God gave me was this invite, don't fight. And again I felt like that was for people outside the church, because I felt like what we were supposed to do is shout grace to people, not ever criticize people, but shout grace and watch this mountain become a plane. But when I was in that moment, I invited that group of people. I said listen, I invite you to follow me Because, see, from my perspective, a tree is known by its fruit, and for 18 years we had produced fruit, more fruit, much fruit, and just because a set of circumstances arose that we were not originally a part of, 20 years ago, the root structure of our tree had not changed, and so I was inviting them to follow us through the storm.
Chris Conlee:Basically, stay on the boat. We may need to put an anchor down, but stay on the boat. And they chose not to. And I'll never forget, you know, just driving home, calling you, and immediately my attention turned to our kids, and the thing that God put upon our mind and our heart was how we respond will influence how our kids choose to respond, and that if we respond with unforgiveness, there's a high probability they would respond with unforgiveness. And unforgiveness really rarely stops at unforgiveness. It turns into different types of bitterness and you know just all the different expressions of how, basically, anger goes through this wide range of emotions.
Chris Conlee:And what I'll never forget is the next morning. Anika was about to go for her college orientation and you guys were going to leave town and Mark and I were going to follow later. And you got up that morning you said I have one request of you. I want you to walk through this in such a way that, if God were to ever ask you to write a book on forgiveness, you would not disqualify yourself. And whether you fully comprehended that in the moment, I heard the Spirit of God through you and I heard it with great authority, and it has been a guiding principle. We may not have executed it perfectly, but we have tried to honor that principle every step along the way, and so I just I think that you know, as anyone is thinking about that concept. My response is my responsibility. These are some of the principles that immediately began to influence our decision-making.
Karin Conlee:And I would just say you know, and again, I think one of the things that protected us and this is you know, we say all the time you know, adults don't change until it costs them too much not to change. So some ways, these feel like words without enough power behind them, that just saying them and people hearing them is not enough. But one of the ways that God prepared us and protected us is that we did have abiding relationships with the Lord, that we weren't just turning to learn how to have a priority time when the crisis hit, that we were spending time with the Lord, for the Lord to have given you that verse, for the Lord to just a sensitivity to the Spirit, that when we were, when you were sitting there, that that it wasn't. Yes, god can. Certainly, if you haven't talked to the Lord in decades or ever, he loves you enough and he can be there in that moment.
Karin Conlee:But there's also something that I didn't realize how important the previous 25 years of spending time in God's word was to that moment. That when you, when you were facing something you had never faced before as a wife, I was now there to help you face something you'd never faced before. Well, you're my best friend and if I was, if all of my energy was relying and depending upon you and not the Lord, then I wasn't gonna have anything, because I'm reflecting back to you. I needed a source of strength to give me wisdom of how do I help my husband, how do I have my own pain? You have your pain.
Chris Conlee:It would have been, honestly, radically different if I came home and you responded in anger and you began to criticize people and you began to want to go fight. That would have made it incredibly difficult for me to try to honor the Lord, because I already wanted to fight in my flesh. And then I wanted to fight for you and I wanted to fight for Mark and Anika and I wanted to fight for so many other people, and I wanted to fight for what I thought was right, but in a way that I did not fully understand in the moment. The most difficult words from the Lord was don't fight. It was invite, don't fight. And really what it was he was telling me was trust me with the process.
Chris Conlee:Now, honestly, in that moment, I was thinking the process that somehow or another, people would see the air of their ways, that this is so unjust that this has to work itself out, and that if we didn't respond in anger and we didn't make the problem worse, that there would be some way for reasonableness to prevail, for wisdom to prevail, for cooler heads to prevail, and so we were trying to do the right thing in the moment, but this was really actually a word from the Lord telling us to trust him with a process that was far longer and to this day, still today, there's. There are some things that were lost that may never be recovered. There are other things that were lost that God's in the process of restoring, but but it's. It's been five years of healing.
Karin Conlee:Well, and I just you know, chris, as, as you're kind of describing that and thinking through that, I think you know some of the application may be for you that to realize.
Karin Conlee:I think it was a huge paradigm shift for us to take our eyes off of us and how we were feeling and to realize that our family, our children, their future, their faith, their ability to process different things. I think a lot of times we can be focused on a problem and just thinking about how it affects us and justice for us, and so I think, whatever that pain is that you have right now to realize that the people that you care about and that look up to you if you have children, that's obviously children. If you have children in the faith, other people that that there is something to say. You know, yes, there are things that may never be recovered, but, to the best of our ability not perfectly God doesn't expect you to do it perfectly but can we put our head down on the pillow and know that we tried and every situation, to do the honorable thing, to not to not speak things that were derogatory of other people, to not try to gain an advantage?
Chris Conlee:I mean, we were given advice, wisdom from very respected people across the country we should split the church and that you know, in that regard it was kind of our church and that we should do that. But the Lord said invite, don't fight. He said surrender, he said submit, and and I think what's important there and I think maybe for others, is how does God respond to our feelings in a moment like that?
Chris Conlee:and one of the things that I think I experienced in this process is there was permission to feel all the feelings that sometimes we can even feel bad about feeling bad, feeling bad about the level of hurt, but I was able to go to God with the rawness of my feelings, with the intensity of the pain, and if I couldn't go to him, that pain would have expressed itself somewhere. You would have been a recipient of kind of the overflow of that pain in the world of, you know, grumpiness and you know probably just being short. You know our kids would be the recipient in different ways. But I think each of us we're trying to protect one another, protect our kids, protect others, and we kind of found our safe place of just literally crying out to God. I can just literally remember laying on the floor and beating the floor and crying out to God. And just where are you? And why are you allowing this to happen? And what's going on?
Chris Conlee:And the thing that I've told people many times is the more that I beat on the chest of God, the tighter he held me. That he would just hold me until I would become so exhausted that I couldn't cry out any longer and then he would just comfort me. And I can't begin to tell you how many times, day after day after day, that I would start out my prayers, kind of face down on the floor and being completely empty and broken. But by the time I was done praying, literally my physical posture went from laying down to own my knees to standing up to walking and kind of giving this commanding request to God. You know how the Roman centurion soldier said you just say the word and it'll be done. And I would give this commanding request, god. You have to, and he gave us that word from Genesis 50 I believe it's verse 21 that what man intended for evil, god will use for good. And it's that story of Joseph and I had no way of fully understanding how much that story would mean to me and the promise that it would hold. But in that story Joseph many times weeps, especially when there's the reunion with his brothers.
Chris Conlee:And so God cares about our emotions. He cares about our feelings. It's important to feel them but not be necessarily led by them all the time or be prisoner to them. Because I had to actually get some feelings out of me to get his feelings into me, and there was a type of healing that you know in the world healing. A lot of times when we talk about it people can get a little nervous because they just think in the world of Physical healing, and I believe God does do physical healing, but there's spiritual healing, there's, you know, emotional healing, there's relational healing and in this we were very intentional to go get some Intensive counseling, like you know, go and be there for a week type counseling.
Chris Conlee:And it was a situation where, as I went through some of that and you went through it with me, but specifically as I went through some of that, like there was a type of healing in the world of removing a weight and giving forgiveness, like I felt, like you know, if it's a, you know, 500 pound weight on my chest, that it was lifted, that God gave me a type of forgiveness that wasn't just emotional, wasn't just mental, it was definitely spiritual but it was also physical, like there was there was there was wounds in my heart that were healed. And later in this podcast I'll tell you some stories you know, in future, episodes of just maybe, how God did that. But we need to go into the depth of this so that whoever is listening Knows that type of healing is available to them, it is possible, it's not just a one-off. It is who our God is.
Karin Conlee:So, chris, is we're talking about that. I think you just hit on the that, just the authenticity that God wants you to come to him with, that, that that in, when you're in your place of pain, when you Are going through that type of experience, to come to come to him, to bring every emotion you have. What else would you say is is the healing process. What else would you say to somebody who who maybe is is just entering a season, or they've been stuck in a season for a while of, of of the brokenness? They're not, they're not able to even see beautiful. Yet they're not, they're not far enough along.
Chris Conlee:What else would you say to them to hear right, the healing process never begins with blaming. I Felt like we could have blamed a lot of people Somehow. Some way you have to find Christ in the midst of the crisis and you have to elevate your thoughts and say God, where are you in this crisis? And this is also the value of journaling, because I had been taught by Clyde Cranford and you know Modeled journaling. For so long I was able to go back and see the things that God has said. I was able to go back and connect the dots. But it begins with ownership.
Chris Conlee:Now, in this particular situation, that made it incredibly difficult because, really, the origin of the problem was not our problem, but there was something that I knew it the. The issue wasn't to blame others. The issue was somehow another. How can I just be responsible to God? How can I take ownership for anything that I could have done better? But really, I felt like, in many ways, we were fighting. We were being attacked by the enemy and I think, ultimately, the enemy's goal was just to cause us to quit. But we were being attacked in such a way that what we were fighting for Was to maintain the character of Christ through this, in such a way that we didn't lose our future ministry.
Chris Conlee:Honestly, in this particular moment, the ministry that we had loved and served for 18 years we were losing it, but God gave us a focus to not lose our future me. So you have to take ownership of what you can take ownership of Control what you can control. Don't worry about what you can't control, and you've got to just, you've got to Exercise faith in the promises of God. Every problem has a promise, all right, and you've got to exercise faith and then trust that God will allow there to be a collision between your faith and his faithfulness. Now the the timing of that, typically, is terrible. It's nowhere near what you want it to be. It's a lot slower.
Karin Conlee:All right, let me stop you right there, because you said okay, you've got to elevate yourself, not blame people, don't be a little bit yourself.
Karin Conlee:I'm sorry, elevate the problem.
Karin Conlee:Yeah, don't, don't blame, see God's perspective.
Karin Conlee:I think there's a lot of people, when they go through something hard, that the quit when you say see God's perspective, even as believers, even as people who love the Lord and have been, you know, a faithful follower of Christ, that when something happens that is so painful or feels so unjustified, it feels like the rare thing where someone's like I was a real idiot and I'm in this painful place because of my choices.
Karin Conlee:That happens sometimes, but more often than not it's something that we that were either collateral damage or it, or were the the front, in the front line, and you know it was a divorce or it was a. You know someone had an affair and we're you know we're the party not involved and and and. When they get to that question of like Let me see it from God's perspective their feeling is where is God? What? How could God let this happen? Help help someone who's stuck right there, because if you feel like God let this happen or he wasn't around, it's hard to then elevate and say God, what do you want me to learn from this?
Chris Conlee:The most important thing you need to do in a moment like this Is the thing that, honestly, we probably have the most resistance to do, and I don't necessarily know why that is. But the most important thing is you actually need to, you know, like move, remove all the other distractions, all the other noise, and you need to go to God and you need to be in his word. You'd be in prayer and say what do you have to say on this matter? I am distraught, I am confused, I am hurting.
Chris Conlee:There is no clarity unless you speak, and the only hope I have going forward is I need a word from you, because nothing else will make sense, because there's times in a fallen, broken world, it doesn't make sense. Okay, sometimes the storm is your fault, sometimes you are legitimately a victim and the storm is not your fault. But regardless of whether it's your fault or not, you still need to know what God has to say, and you've got to go to him and say God, my perspective is limited, my perspective is limited, your perspective is not limited, and so I need you to speak right here, into the present tense, into the right now. But when you speak into the right now, you're going to speak into it, also understanding what you're going to do through it and where you're going to take us.
Karin Conlee:And I would just also add to that, and this may be even a step before that there are definitely times when things are out of control. They don't make sense. The world is spinning, something just happened that you had, you know, you were not prepared for, and you can't make sense of it. And you haven't heard from the Lord yet. And it's in those moments that I mean it's what you've taught all the time Only God knows what's best, only God wants what's best, only God can give what's best.
Karin Conlee:And it's almost just saying, like the only thing I can do right now, god, is rely on what I know to be true about your character, and I don't see it and it doesn't make sense and it's not fair, and I honestly don't even know where you are. If nothing else, I just am going to trust that you are who you say you are and that you do know what's best and that you want what's best for me, and that you alone can give it. And in some ways, I feel like you know, in the very first part of our storm, before we could even step back and gain any type of you know, brace ourselves in perspective, it was just okay. I just the only thing I know is either what I've believed in the from the point of salvation to right now is true or it's not. And I'm going to go that I have seen God's faithfulness in the past and so just because I don't understand it doesn't mean he's not with me.
Karin Conlee:Doesn't mean he wanted it, but it does mean he's with me.
Chris Conlee:Well, in that also, I would say, more times than not, I'm a person I believe this is true of most of us in this situation. We're prone to action, we want to do something when pain comes no one likes pain you want to get rid of the pain, you want to solve the problem, and the hardest thing to do is, in this particular situation, I felt like we were told not to do anything, like I'm not going to speak negatively now, but in five years we've never spoken negatively. I would say, when the scripture says, be still and know that I'm God, you never want to learn it this way, but that word to be still means keep doing what you know to be right while you wait on God. It's an active waiting.
Chris Conlee:So the restoration process is a process of cultivating good soil. You've got to look at your soil and go okay, there are any rocks in here, there are any hard soil in here, any thorns in here. How do I cultivate some good soil? And we had done that through the years. And then how do we plant some seeds?
Chris Conlee:But in this particular situation, I told you the day after this happened that it's probably going to be at least five years before we really felt like we were restored and trying to be at a place of fully pursuing the visions that God has given us stable again. And it has been five years and we're on the right path, but we're definitely not there fully yet. But I would say that you cultivate the good soil, you plant seeds, and we had to plant new seeds. We had to plant some seeds that maybe we've never planted before. But then here's the hardest part waiting for the harvest, of waiting, waiting, not doubting, waiting and actually believing. And the more that you cultivate the soil, the more you plant the seeds. Then you begin to see different levels of the harvest come in, little by little by little In each you know time. Just you see something surface above the ground. That's new life, evidence of new life, not living off of a past harvest. It increases your faith and gives you hope in that restoration process.
Karin Conlee:Chris, I remember it was actually in this very room where we're recording, maybe two Christmases ago. I'm trying to remember how long ago it was, but I don't know what you're talking about.
Chris Conlee:When Anika came in here, and she wanted to know.
Karin Conlee:I think she asked you which was such a in some ways bizarre question, like I mean, of course we know the answer to this question, but I think she asked you have you gotten to the place yet that you're glad that this happened Was that her question.
Karin Conlee:Right and maybe share your response to her, because I think again, everybody we're not, we're not special. Everybody goes through hard things and they're different shapes and flavors and sizes, sure, but I think there was a principle in what you, your answer to her that can help people come to the other side.
Chris Conlee:I told her. I said, listen, I'll probably never be able to say that I'm glad that it happened. Too many people got hurt and too many sheep got scattered and it didn't have to happen this way. There were other paths that I think could have helped more people heal, helped more people be led and pastored through the process than the path that was taken. I said but and this is hard to say I think I like myself better today than I did then. And she paused for a moment and you know just like okay, why. You know elaborate, and I just said, you know, in many ways I just think it's brought me back to the purity of who Christ is. You know that it's purified, my calling, but it also just if you lose everything but you still have Christ, he is everything and you didn't lose everything. And if you feel like you've lost everything but yet it brings you closer to the one who is everything than every hope, you can still believe that that hope has a future to it.
Karin Conlee:I think that there is something I mean, that is the picture of he is the potter and we are the clay. And no matter what you're going through it is, we get so focused on our day to day, on, you know, whether we're making progress in our profession or our kids and like just all the things that are day to day, and that when something just really kind of cracks that wide open and you find yourself kind of in midair, kind of feeling untethered, it really does make you ask some of the questions that, honestly, were too busy to ask otherwise.
Chris Conlee:Well, in that there are just some things you can't learn on the mountaintop, you know, there's some things you can't learn from a position of success or a position of power, and in the scripture it tells us all the time to humble ourselves.
Chris Conlee:But that's one of the hardest things to do is to just have such awareness of the presence of God, such awareness of who he is and also who we are, his children. We are creating his image, but also, you know, there's a frailty to us and we need to have a great dependency upon him and we need to abide in him in such a way. And so I just think that it's just something where, when you're in this moment, if you're in the valley, he is the lily of the valley and you need to notice what's beautiful in the valley and then you need to allow him to do the work that he wants to do, so you don't remain in the valley. I think one of the things that was very present upon my mind is with the children of Israel. If my memory is correct, you know to go from Egypt to the Promised Land. I want to say, you know it was a journey that was, was it 11 miles or 13 miles, or I thought it was 12 days.
Karin Conlee:That's what's going to be. Yeah, maybe it is, you know maybe it was.
Chris Conlee:You know it was 11 day journey or a 13 day journey and it took him 40 years, and but the delays were due to disobedience. And when you're in the valley, when you're in the wilderness, don't make it worse and don't have a compounding effect of adding disobedience to this and therefore delays to this, and then you know. So I just really had a sense that we needed to protect ourselves, protect God's call upon our lives, protect our children and then, honestly, that would give us the ability to see God's restoration and, honestly, not just restoration of Chris and Karen Connolly. It really was the restoration of God's vision for Memphis, the restoration of what God was doing and is doing and will continue to do in His people, the restoration of His glory. The prayer that we have prayed from day one is show me your glory, and so it was those aspects of restoration.
Karin Conlee:And I would just say, in terms of translating, that obviously not everybody listening to this is called to the ministry. They're not in that kind of context. But God has divine purposes and plans and places of impact, no matter who you are, what your profession is, and so that's not just applicable to us, but in that same way, to say God, you have great plans for me, and whether this is you pruning me or whether this is an attack of the enemy, whatever it is, I want to be found faithful. It's easy to obey Scripture when everything is going great and we don't really do a good job at that holistically. So there is something to just say. I want to have the fullness of all that God has for me and, lord, please don't let me do something stupid in my pain that is going to disqualify me or sidetrack me.
Karin Conlee:I remember long ago we went to I guess it was before Donald Miller did Storybrand, and he had a session, a conference on story, and one of the principles he talked about is don't let any scene. If your life is a movie and you're the main character, don't let any scene into your movie that is going to keep you from the happy ending and that's honestly, if your life is a story and you hit that conflict in the story and you're trying to get to the resolution we do, my response is my responsibility have a way that we can shorten or lengthen that journey.
Chris Conlee:Karen, as we talk about this, in many ways, just I'm realizing just there's so much that God has taught us, there's so much to learn from this that you know there's a lot that we've talked about that kind of wasn't in the notes, so to speak, and so what I'd like to do is just kind of focus on this last section and give some hope for today, and then we'll pick it back up with additional learning curves. But in this whole idea, from broken to beautiful, you can't skip the broken phase. In that broken phase you've got to kind of take ownership of it. We've said before earlier that you don't blame your way out of it, have never known a victim to truly become victorious, and so you don't want to be the victim. But in the world of brokenness, we bring our brokenness to him and we bring it to the only one who truly can heal the brokenness. But what I saw in our journey was is that, okay, you know, something has occurred, and then a tragedy, a crisis, a set of circumstances, adversity, and that brings you to the place of brokenness.
Chris Conlee:But the quickest way out of brokenness is forgiveness, and sometimes that's asking God for forgiveness yourself for whatever role that you played in it. Sometimes it's forgiving others, and forgiveness is never whether they deserve it or not. Okay, forgiveness is really because we have been forgiven and none of us deserve it, and it's a gift. And so we had to move very quickly from brokenness to forgiveness, because if you stay in the brokenness phase too long, then brokenness also has fruit and you'll begin to reap things that come from a place of brokenness but the forgiveness.
Chris Conlee:Once we began to experience forgiveness and give forgiveness, it was something that God taught a lesson and we'll talk more on this later that forgiveness is the first step to healing, but blessing is the first step to health, and so you also have to even move beyond forgiveness to blessing. And, man, that's incredibly hard when you feel like someone has wronged you. You know, in the scripture it even says don't you know and I think it's either 1st or 2nd Peter, I think chapter 3, where it says don't return insult for insult, but rather a blessing instead. I mean, that may be the hardest verse in all the Bible like, okay, you know someone's insulting you and you're supposed to return a blessing instead.
Karin Conlee:And honestly. In some way it also is a good test on your level of forgiveness, because if you haven't actually forgiven them, you're probably not going to move forward with a blessing.
Chris Conlee:Yeah, I remember, and again, everyone can be a cynic in these moments, people can be skeptical, people can question your motives. But I remember after we went and got counseling and I felt like there was such a literally supernatural level of forgiveness that was done in my heart that God gave me that principle that forgiveness is the first step to healing, blessings, the first step to health. And I was trying to set up some meetings of reconciliation and for a variety of reasons, those never materialized. But I remember writing 10 people and I wrote them and, you know, gave them forgiveness, but then I ended each letter with trying to pray a prayer of blessing over them. Again, we have to be responsible to do what God tells us to do, whether that's received or not.
Chris Conlee:But here's the thing is, you begin in a place of brokenness. You get out of brokenness with forgiveness. When forgiveness takes root, it produces freedom, freedom from the past so that you can focus on the future. And then, when you focus on the future as a result of the freedom, it produces hope. And so I just want to encourage anyone that as you go through this, you got to have that place of understanding the cycle. There's brokenness there, the way to get out of brokenness is forgiveness. What comes as a result of forgiveness is freedom. When you see the freedom, you begin to believe in the future again, which causes hope to arise. Nothing will kill a person like the absence of hope and what began to. I told you early on, nothing would kill me quicker than losing the ability to dream, and so God had to restore my hope, and it's important to have some verses in that.
Chris Conlee:So I want to close this by sharing some verses and, honestly, even the fact. Some of these verses I'm going to share, some people have even kind of criticized. Like I mean, do you really believe that? Or you know, I've heard that before, but I'm not seeing that happen for others and I mean, like, is that literal? Listen, I'm not going to speak for everyone else and what their set of circumstances are and what God did or didn't do for them.
Chris Conlee:I know God's a faithful God. I know God is a promise maker, but he's also a promise keeper and I know that, yeah, I've done all the study and how to study scripture. But I also know oftentimes that the most accurate interpretation of scripture is the most obvious interpretation of scripture, the most simple and straightforward. But God promises restoration. He even promises double restoration. And I don't believe anyone ever writes a song or gives a testimony about partial restoration. Oh praise God, I mean, he healed part of me but left the rest of me crappy. All right, I don't want partial, I want every bit of healing that he has to offer and every bit of goodness he has to offer, every bit of abundance he has to offer, every promise he has. And so in Zachariah 912, and God spoke to me so much through the book of Zachariah in this time it says return to your stronghold, oh prisoners, watch of hope. Wow, a prisoner of hope. You don't typically put those two words together prisoner and hope. Today I declare not, I speak softly to you, I whisper to you. You know, I'm hoping this will happen. Today I declare I will restore to you double. Stop changing God's words Like, literally he's that good, he's that strong, all right.
Chris Conlee:None of us like to read the book of Job. I don't think anyone. Oh, job's my favorite book, you know. So in Job 42, verse 10, at the end, it says and the Lord restored the fortunes of Job when he had prayed for his friends. His friends were criticizing him, right. So here he is he's praying for those who aren't necessarily being wise counsel. And the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.
Chris Conlee:But then, as we continue, we go to Joel, joel chapter two. And as we look at Joel chapter two, verses 21 through 27,. But I'm not going to read all of those, but just for your sake, verses 21 through 27,. I'll pick up in verse 25. I will restore, and just you got to hang on. Like the enemy says I will destroy, god says I will restore. The enemy says I will still kill and destroy. I will restore. I will restore to you the years and it's been years that the swarming locusts, not just a few locusts, that the swarming locusts has eaten the hopper, the destroyer and the cutter, my great army, which I sent among you, I'm going to restore.
Chris Conlee:And then, what is so, so important in this verse has spoken to me time and time again, and it's first Peter, chapter five, verse 10. And after you have suffered a little while now I'd like to debate and argue the term a little while. Okay, again, just me, and God, in his timing, would love to just ask for a little expediency sometimes, and after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace all grace, not some who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen and establish you. Whatever Christ is someone's going through, there is a way out with Christ. Whatever adversity someone is going through, there is a way out with faith, hope and love.
Chris Conlee:The enemy does not have the last word. We are people who are. Faith comes by the hearing of the word of God, but not just the hearing of the word of God, the obeying of the hearing of the word of God. And so, in a moment like this, faith is not a set of beliefs. Faith is a confident action in God being who he says he is and that he'll do what he says he'll do. And we never quit believing that God has a purpose for us. God has a calling for us, that his calling is irrevocable. That is calling as far beyond us. It's not about us, it's about his own glory and about his people, and that he is committed to restoring that. And if all of us will bring our life into alignment with him, into agreement with him, then when we return to God, when we return to him you can bank on it he will return to you.
Karin Conlee:Well, I hope that this episode has been helpful for you, no matter where you are in your journey. I know, christ, you talked about forgiveness. There's so much that we could teach and we will teach and discuss I think, maybe a better word in future episodes. But if you're just in a place right now and that brokenness is stuck in the unforgiveness stage, I'd also just encourage you. You've done some teaching at LoveWorksDocumentarycom. There's a three-part series there on forgiveness that might be a resource In the meantime that you would be able to glean some additional truths to help you not be stuck in a place of unforgiveness, because I know that was a huge part of us making progress in our journey that we want to help others in their journey as well. So thank you so much for joining us for Unwasted Pain and we'll see you next time.