Unwasted Pain
Join us on a thought-provoking journey as we delve into the depths of human experience and explore the intricacies of unwasted pain. In our podcast, "Unwasted Pain," we tackle the universal yet often misunderstood topic of pain and provide insights, support, and guidance for those seeking to navigate the challenges it presents.
Unwasted Pain
The Art of Endurance
God's faithfulness is a recurring theme in our journey, and we've learned that His timing is indeed perfect. Even in the midst of our most challenging times, He was there, faithfully providing and encouraging us. We want to share these experiences with you, with the hope that it will inspire you to trust in God's provision and timing, no matter where you are in your journey. Whether you're in the midst of a trial or standing on the brink of one, we invite you to join us on this journey and experience the power of unwasted pain.
Welcome to Unwasted Pain. I'm here with Chris Conley. I'm Karen Conley. Thank you so much for joining us again.
Speaker 1:Chris, you and I have been the last two podcasts really kind of talking about our journey into the prophetic, and today we'll kind of wrap that up but also kind of add the dimension of just how God provides. And so, you know, in the context of Unwasted Pain, we all go through challenges. Sometimes they're physical, sometimes they're financial, sometimes they're emotional, sometimes they're all of the above and, honestly, when you get to pain, it usually does involve all of the above. But a lot of times, you know, bad things happen and people just kind of you just kind of get generic information. And then good things happen and you get kind of generic information.
Speaker 1:Hopefully, what we'll do today is really kind of share just some of the ways that God unfolded the story and through the ways that he speaks and through the ways that he provides, but also how we partnered with that.
Speaker 1:And so, hopefully, wherever you are on your journey, if there's something in front of you that God has asked you to do or you're trying to figure out a next step, hopefully there'll be some things in here that will maybe make that feel more realistic, more step by step, than something that's as big as you know, eating an elephant that we can take it apart in some pieces and realize whatever God's called you to do or whatever wilderness you're in and you're trying to climb out of. It is one step at a time, but he is faithful and those steps actually do add together and come to something. So, chris, I know one of the things you have on our notes right here is what do you do when you need a miracle? And I guess we knew we needed a miracle.
Speaker 1:In some ways we had we had. We're at a place where we were out of control and we couldn't fix things ourselves. And that's when you turn to God and that's when you need Him to do what only he can do. And that is a miracle. But maybe set the stage for us as we continue this conversation, so that we can kind of help show them a little bit of the behind the scenes.
Speaker 2:Right. So you know, when you are in a place of pain, pain in many ways is like God's megaphone, you know it gets your attention and in that place of pain it also creates a level of desperation where you realize you've got to have God's help in a way that maybe, if we're just candid and honest, we've never really experienced the need at that level before. We all like to be in control and we live in this illusion that we can actually be in control. And when things are going well, you know there is some element that you feel like you're in control. But when the adversity comes, when the crisis comes, then all of a sudden there's this realization that, oh my gosh, like I can't get out of this myself.
Speaker 2:And so you know, to kind of answer that question about what do you do when you need a miracle is first, actually, you still have to believe that our God is a God of miracles and that sounds easy. But when you're in a place that is a low place and typically you know when you're in that place everything's coming against you and you're not necessarily at your best. It is a place where where do you turn when you're hurting? And we've said this before, but there's really only two options Do you run to God or do you run from God? And in both our personal life and in our ministry life, for over you know, close to 30 years now we can tell you that makes us old.
Speaker 1:It is true, we were two when we started.
Speaker 2:You know, I guess it was this May that actually was, if my memory is correct, it was either the I think the 28th anniversary of just kind of you know, us being called to ministry, entering ministry, that kind of thing. But when, when we look at that, the people that we have seen in the midst of their crisis run to God fair, far better than those who get angry at God, those that blame God, those that run from God, those that allow themselves to be the victim, and so the thing I would say is just ask God to prove himself All right. So, god, you are a God of miracles and we are in desperate need of a miracle.
Speaker 2:Not only that, but we know throughout scripture that when scripture uses this metaphor of a mountain, that a mountain is something that's so imposing that it feels impossible to move, and it says our faith and that's not blind faith, but our faith it's that confident trust in who Jesus is and what he can do that our faith can move a mountain. And in our particular, you know, crisis, we definitely felt like we had a mountain, that we had lost everything in many regards, even kind of lost our name or our reputation, and it felt like we were needing a mountain to move, that only God can move, and so the thing I would say there is then just testing, just go God. This is who you say you are, and we are your children, and we are in a place where we can't do this apart from you. We've never been able to do it apart from you. Sometimes we think we can do it apart from you, but we are just coming to you and asking you to deliver us.
Speaker 1:Well, and I would say just in that's easy, to say it's harder we're in the middle of it.
Speaker 1:But also just to know, like, okay, some days your faith was strong and some days mine was weak, and so there were days that I was leaning on your faith and your confidence and other days you were leaning on mine. And so I think that in the day to day of it, sometimes these things don't unpack themselves quickly, and so we wanted to see God move a lot faster than he actually did. In hindsight you go, oh, okay, that now I see that had to happen before that could happen. Or I mean, I guess he could have done it a whole lot faster if he wanted to, but he was teaching us things in the meantime. But I would just encourage you in that, yes, absolutely run to God. But even if you don't feel it every day, right, just you know, even if you're crawling, even if you're just saying, I'm just choosing to believe you then and I'm going to lean on somebody else's faith and borrow someone else's faith today.
Speaker 2:You just use that term. We use that term a lot. Sometimes you just need to borrow someone else's faith. There were also days in our journey that we were both down, we were both low and we kind of go like, hey, you know, I am not having a good day, I don't even want you to try to encourage me, and somewhere somehow in the you know goodness of God, he would have someone call us, someone be a voice of hope, someone be a voice of faith. Hey, we believe in you. God's not done with you yet. Hey, you know, he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Speaker 2:And so, again, I would affirm what you just said let's just normalize that in these days, not only are you going to have bad days, you can have some really, really, really, really low days and it looks like the whole world is impossible in front of you.
Speaker 2:But that's when you either borrow you know a spouse, you borrow a family member's faith, you borrow a friend's faith and you pray and ask God to send people to give you that word that you need in a timely manner, you know.
Speaker 2:So one of the things also I think in this is we've said this before on this podcast but that in many regards, over the past five years we have experienced more of the supernatural work of God than we had really, in some respects, been exposed to or seen over the past 20 years. And but one of the things as we talk about you know, continue to talk about the role of prophetic and then even talk about how God has provided. I think one of the things that's so important in that is that even though God moves in supernatural ways, it still requires us to collaborate with him, it still requires us to partner with him. We have a role to play. If a prophetic word has been given, then there's a certain stewardship that we have in A believing the word and, b beginning to believe it in such a way that we put in steps of obedience to play our role in seeing that word come to fulfillment.
Speaker 1:So, chris, in kind of the story element of where we are, of kind of our journey, maybe give some examples of where we have seen that, okay, there was something that was that was spoken at this point in our journey and we we could have listened to it and been like, well, that's nice, you know too bad that God didn't show up a few years ago and we could just turn from God in that. Or we could be like, okay, god, that's interesting that somebody said that to us, but we're gonna just take a wait-and-see approach or really kind of that partnering process which is, okay, god didn't, that didn't happen by accident. There's a reason that God had us hear that, that he used another human being on this planet to speak something to us and then we had a responsibility to steward that word. So maybe give some examples of in our journey where we saw that happen.
Speaker 2:I would say one of them is actually, I think, a word God gave you to speak to me in this season, as we were praying about returning to Memphis. We were in this kind of place of discernment saying, okay, do we have a green light from God? You know what's the definition of a green light, what's God's definition of a yellow light and what's a red light.
Speaker 1:Man, I wish there was like a just a recipe book on those three Right.
Speaker 2:And so what we had said was and again, we've referenced this in an earlier podcast, but kind of using that, henry Blackaby that in the world of a green light it's like okay, if God speaks through the word, he speaks through prayer, he speaks through wise counsel, he speaks through circumstances, if all four of those are lining up and going in the same direction, then that's a green light. And we were in a place that we really sense that that was where God was leading us. But then we came to Memphis three times in a 10-day window, and one of those was to teach at a church here, one of those was to officiate a funeral. And then, honestly, one of those because we were sensing that we had a green light was to look for a home in case God was calling us back. And there were some different circumstances that arose that we had received, you know, a phone call that High Point was gonna be calling their new pastor, and we really just sense that that became a yellow light. It wasn't a red light in the sense of like stop, you know you're never to be coming back, but it was at least a caution to say wait, because we wanna be in a place of unity and we did not want to have any negative influence upon this new pastor coming. We want our previous church to thrive, to be healthy, to succeed. We want this pastor to have every opportunity to do that possible.
Speaker 2:And so we were really at this place where we were sensing God saying wait, not never, but wait. And then you got this word and you said to me you know, in the context of God, I believe God's gonna bring us back, but it's in his timing. If we don't go back to Memphis, we'll miss the why. And then you said God said to me if you miss the why, you'll also miss the why. Now, the why is something that doesn't happen at the beginning of the journey. The why isn't something that happens when you're in this season where, all of a sudden, in the world of sowing and reaping that you've got to cultivate some good soil again, and when we ultimately and it wasn't in that particular season we waited another year until God sent us back to Memphis.
Speaker 2:But when God sent us back to Memphis, april 23rd of 2020, right in the beginning of the pandemic, when everything is shut down, god gives us that word from Exodus, chapter four, verse 19 and 20, go back to Egypt. Memphis is named after the capital city of Egypt. Go back to Egypt, bring your wife and children with you. And then he says and bring the staff of God. And in that what we really sensed was God saying now's the time. Now, everything in circumstances said now is not the time, okay. But we really sensed God saying now's the time and we sensed it in such a way that this word that if you miss the wide then you'll also miss the wild you really sense God gave that to you and so we had to end that moment when there's no wild at the beginning of COVID okay.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of wilds.
Speaker 2:They're all in, kind, right and, honestly, if we were to even go back to the Black and Be principle of all right, we did feel like this was a word that God had given you. From the word, we did feel like this was something that was came in the spirit of prayer. But honestly, in the world of wise counsel, we had a variety of opinions, more opinions no than yes, and then, in the world of circumstances, they would have been a loud no, okay. And so we actually broke the principle that we actually lived by because of the strength of what we felt like was this was a word from the word, this was something that God had given you. And when God combined those two things together, this word, earlier than a year later, this word from Exodus, chapter four, verse 19 and 20, it was one of those things where now we had to begin to live for the wild.
Speaker 2:But here's what I wanna say when you are in this soaring reaping process, it takes time. It is hard work to cultivate good soil, to soften the soil, to get the rocks out of the soil, to clear the thorns out of the soil, to plant the good seed, but it's also there's this active waiting. I can't begin to tell you how many times we just needed oh my gosh, we needed to see some evidence of that seed coming above the soil and there'd be some evidence that something is growing. And then, oftentimes, god would give a prophetic word in that moment, oftentimes, God would give us just what we needed in the world of financial provision to believe that, okay, you just keep being faithful, you just keep being a good steward, you just keep doing what only you can do, and your faith will collide with his faithfulness, and then we'll see God do it.
Speaker 1:Well and I think that is what is so transferable A lot of times you're not having pain when things move forward. You're usually having pain because something has moved back, you've lost something or there's been a betrayal or there's been some kind of setback, and the whole reason that you're in a place of pain is because you can't fix it. If you could fix it, if it was a fast fix, then we don't remember it. It was a blip on the radar screen. But for us in this it is that day after day, in the middle of things. How would you encourage someone right now that they're just being faithful where they are and they're further back than where it's not two steps forward, one step back, it's like one step forward and 10 steps back. What do you say to that person? That would be something that you learned or we learned in this journey that would help them in the day to day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you use this term. What would you say to that person? I would say to that person it's often what they say to themself. There's this phrase that we've learned in counseling over the years it's not important what others say to you, it's important what you say to yourself about what others say to you.
Speaker 2:And so in those moments we had to just keep believing and we had to believe and sometimes these are cliches and they're little catchy phrases, but nonetheless they're still true.
Speaker 2:We had to believe that every setback's ultimately going to be a setup. We had to believe that the obstacle is going to become an opportunity. We had to believe that in Genesis 50, 20, what man intended for evil, god's going to use for good. We had to believe that God is a God who promises not only restoration but double restoration. We had to believe he's a God that promises a double portion. And so those were the things that we had to keep telling ourselves when, honestly, there were a lot of shut doors and the shut door would slam in your face and it never feels good for it to slam in your face and that shut door shouts at you. And then, yet, you still have to believe what God is saying, not what the circumstances are saying, not what the crisis are saying, not what the critics are saying, and you have to make sure you are speaking life and speaking faith and speaking hope.
Speaker 1:And I think it's important to mention this that there's in the quiet of our mind, when things are still in a challenging time. It's when the enemy is at his best. And well, look what, you're in this mess and God hasn't gotten you out. Or how would a good God let that happen? Or I'm a failure or I'm never going to get out of this. This is. I remember you saying what if my best days are behind me? There's such power in our words and even in our thoughts that, man, I literally just had to drown out like I'm not. You know me, I'm not someone who loves a lot of noise, but in those seasons I will keep worship music on. I will put this podcast on. That were helpful, encouraging, soul-feeding things. That would just just some phrase, some truth, some scripture, something to hold on to until my heart was back in a place that I might not have been feeling it that day, but it just keeps me from, you know, sometimes just not moving back as a victory.
Speaker 2:Well, in this it's hard to believe alone. We had one another, which was it would have been impossible. I don't know how I personally would have survived without your strength, without your courage, without your faith. So we had one another, but then again we had God position some people strategically to speak the right word at the right time. You asked about what one of those words is, and I shared one that you gave. I want to share one from Steve and Ruth Moore, who are friends of ours that are leaders out at Bethel, and this was a word that they spoke over my life, without ever having met me before, having zero context, and when you when. I'm just going to share a little bit of this, not the whole word, the whole word's like 15 minutes long, but enough of it to just have our listeners be able to make the connection of wow. There is absolutely no way people who knew nothing about their story are led in the midst of you know, a sanctuary that had 6, 700 people in it, to come up to me and say I feel like God's highlighted you and we want to speak this over your life. And so you know they said this. They said you had the blueprints rolled out in a previous season, but it was the right word in the wrong season. The blueprints rolled back up because people rejected the spirit, not you. However, the blueprints are being rolled out again, but this time it is the right word in the right season with the right people. They will be embraced and fulfilled this time. You've always been a builder, but now all the people, resources and wealth are being released upon you to build.
Speaker 2:And that was from Steve. Now his wife, ruth, jumps in. She says I saw the blueprints for the next thing being rolled out in front of you. I saw a new day. How much do you need to hear that? Right, I felt the Lord say that he's going to double it, not from where you are right now, but from where you were. She didn't know anything. She didn't know where we were. That's the promise of the Lord to you. What happened is not all for nothing. The acceleration is coming. The loss isn't just loss. It's actually going to be a doubling of where you were.
Speaker 2:People are going to come in from out of town and in just a moment, remind me, we need to tell the story of how Justin and Nicola and Taylor and Aaron and others have come in from out of town to be a part of this vision. It says people are going to come in from out of town with the same heart and the same DNA. They're going to be monumental and leading in this new endeavor that you are doing. I feel like there's going to be this massive citywide revival in Memphis. Not many people say that, especially not many people in Redding California. They probably have never. They don't. They may know that Elvis was from Memphis, but they don't know much else. Okay, and then it says the city and black population will rally behind you. That's incredibly significant, given both our background and our city's history. You're going to see the black population rally behind you.
Speaker 2:It has been a cry of your heart. There has been some misunderstanding and false assumptions about you, but I felt like the Lord's saying right word, wrong season. Now it is the right word for the right season. And so when that type of word is spoken and there feels like nothing but mountains in front of you, that word feels like these two people, stephen and Ruth Moore, just put their hands on the mountain and just said we're coming alongside and we're pushing it and our faith is combining with your faith and we are going to push that mountain into the sea. And I think every single person who is in a place of pain, in a place where they feel like the circumstances are against them, that's where they need that type of hope infused into them.
Speaker 1:And I will say again, in times of trouble, a lot of times we isolate and we just withdraw and we don't want to be engaging with people and we don't want to be in new circumstances, and it's just kind of a fetal position and you just try to kind of hunker down and just hope that it goes by. And honestly, you sometimes just have to drag yourself to put yourself in positions where you're in the flow of God's activity. And in this particular case you were going to different conferences and you were going to different places to just have good things be poured in you. But it also kept you around people of faith, and so I just again, there's kind of this I don't know the best way to describe it, but sometimes there's that kind of stereotype of like Jesus is for the weak and that it's just the weak people that have faith, and kind of thing. And I don't think that's Like a crutch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe that's the way. Yeah, but Jesus is a crutch. That's a great way of saying it. But I think the truth of the matter is it's that when we are, it takes us being humbled and realizing what is true and that they were not in control before. We honestly sometimes will look to something besides ourselves and that we can kind of live in that place of thinking like, well, I've got it all under control. And so for us, in those instances of just being around people that were of faith, we knew otherwise we were going to dry up, like we needed something to just be fueling our faith, and the byproduct of us just going to those places was, sure, we got the content and those kinds of things, and that helps drown out some of the negativity that the enemy wanted to whisper, but it put us in places where we could be encouraged.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of like that idea of put yourself in the flow of the river, all right, where, if we use that analogy of the river being just kind of where the spirit of God is flowing, then put yourself in the flow, go downstream, stop trying to swim upstream and just allow the flow of the river to carry where you need to be. One of the things that Stephen Ruth Moore said in that word is that people are going to yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, relocate. They're going to move and be a part of this movement that God is restoring in and through you. And what was so remarkable and this is again where it's borrowing faith, but it's also watching faith become contagious that when other people continue to believe in Christ and you, other people continue to believe in who you are and what God is doing in and through you, then it strengthens you and makes you realize that if we're not doing this alone and if people are starting to buy in to what God is saying and God is doing, then that again builds you up, it edifies you, and so, like you know, we talked about that.
Speaker 2:God gave us this word to move back to Memphis in April of 2020. We made the final decision kind of June 1st of 2020. We moved back, you know, the end of July 2020. And yet, when we share that vision up in Cleveland Ohio, you know, first couple that kind of heard the vision when they heard that God had said you know, go back to Egypt, bring your wife and kids with you and the staff of God. Now, yes, we know that staff biblically is representing the presence of God, the power of God. But Justin and Nicola Lorman, when he heard that, he felt like God said, go and be his staff. Now here's a deal, all right, it's one thing for us to leave our income and to believe somehow or another, against all odds, that you know, 85% of church plants fail. And now we're going to go try to do a second church plant and we're going to go try to do it in the midst of COVID.
Speaker 1:Testing our luck. Yes, all right.
Speaker 2:But for another couple to now believe that God said that, to be willing to leave their jobs, to relocate. You know, at that time you know they had two, you know small children. Now they have three and a fourth on the way, but it was just such an unbelievable thing. And then a young woman named Taylor who has recently gotten married, taylor Allaire she comes with them. You know we talk about Aaron here running the cameras for us. His family has come down and it's just one of those things when all of a sudden, you're not alone, you're not alone, You're not alone, you're not alone. Then that bolsters your faith.
Speaker 1:So, chris, we've shared a pretty good amount of just how God strategically used different people to encourage us. But there's a place where you know encouragement you know doesn't buy food or shelter, and that you just you need like real practical things to see God show up in very tangible ways. And so maybe, as we kind of transition, talk a little bit, just maybe, of your perspective. We're going back to Memphis, we're going back in the middle of COVID. We've, you know, been in Cleveland for less than nine months and finally had had a steady paycheck again and health insurance again, and yet we were now kind of leaving that behind for something that again was pretty unstable. What are your reflections now, as you look back over that, of just how you processed just the need as a provider for our family and the way that God showed up as our provider?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in many regards, timing is more important than time. Okay, you know, it's the illustration, the principle of a surfer that you're on the board, you're paddling out and you're watching the waves come in, and when you think that the right wave is coming, you start paddling like crazy trying to catch that wave so that the power of the wave picks you up and takes you on an incredible ride. And in what we saw time and time again is God would provide, he would also communicate just in the right moment of time. And so, like you know, one of the things that was a question that was immediately before us. You know, god communicates.
Speaker 2:On April I think it was 23rd of you know 2020 to go back to Memphis, that was a Thursday then Friday, saturday, sunday, on Sunday, we get a phone call from kind of a legendary pastor here in town, pastor Jimmy Latimer, and he doesn't know anything that's going on as far as God having spoken to us, and he calls and he says hey, listen, I'm in the hospital, I'm battling some congestive heart failure and as clearly as I've ever heard the voice of God, I heard him say restore Chris Collins, a ministry before you die. He said I don't have much, but I have a little church and if you want to come back to Memphis and start a church, it's yours. Now, again, how do you make this stuff up? And so, from a timing standpoint, god speaks on a Thursday to us that we should go back. Then, on a Sunday, a pastor from Memphis not knowing any of those connections cause and says, and, by the way, you'll need a place for your church to meet and you're welcome to meet there. Okay, so it's the timing.
Speaker 2:But then, you know, as we begin kind of exploring, coming back, some friend of ours had a guest house and they offered for us to live in that guest house, kind of like a one bedroom, you know, kind of house in the back, and so our housing was taken care of.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, as Justin and Nicola were coming, another friend of ours offered to house them, and then, as Taylor was coming, another friend of ours offered to house them. So God's provided housing for everybody. But we all knew that, you know, jumping into this is a long road and we told everybody, in all probability we're going to have to go a period of time without pay in order to kind of, you know, reinvest money in the church, so to speak, and all of us went five months without pay, but not one single person complained and all of us saw God provide in the, god provide in these unique ways. And so, in the very first year in the life of one city church, because of COVID, we missed 20 Sundays altogether, and then those other 32 Sundays were very hit or miss, and so in many ways, put up the mask sign or not be, quiet or not.
Speaker 1:God that we lived all through, that is amazing.
Speaker 2:But here's a remarkable story. So about nine months later, on June 22nd, a friend of ours asked me to lunch and as we go to lunch, he just said listen, you ministered to my family before the crisis. I'm incredibly grateful you've come back. You're ministering to my family again. And he said we believed in you before the crisis. I think we believe in you more now. And just said I really feel led that we want to kind of give the church just a startup contribution in order to help you kind of land on your feet and begin to figure out where God wants you to be as far as a location, as far as a permanent home.
Speaker 2:And this person gave a gift of $250,000. And I'm sitting there just going, wow, right, and just you know, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Like I mean, how can you say thank you enough? And in the midst of me saying thank you, he says, well, wait a second, I'm not done. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm not sure what that really means, but you know, continue with whatever it is you want to say.
Speaker 1:I like it so far. That's right.
Speaker 2:And he said you're a visionary, you're a dreamer, and we need you to dream again and you probably feel like you've lost a lot of your visions when you lost kind of the platform that High Point was. And he says one of the things that I've heard you talk about before is that you really have a vision to have a retreat center and that you, you know, ideally would like that retreat center to be at Pickwick, which is, you know, a great lake community about two hours from here. And he said so what I want to do is I want to bless you and give you some lake lots to one day build a retreat center. And again, it's just hard to comprehend. Not only did God begin to meet a need, he began to meet a desire, he began to meet a vision. He began the process of going above and beyond, of showing us how good he was. But then he says wait a second, I'm still not done. He says one of the things that hurt me the most in this was how much your children are hurt or hurt.
Speaker 2:And he said I remember you told a story one time that you asked Ken Blanchard. You said hey, ken, I'm in an incredibly busy season in my life, good things are happening. If you were me in this season of my life and you could do one thing for your family, what would you do? And I'll never forget? Ken's wife, margie, grabbed Ken's hand, said I've got this one, I'm going to answer it. And she said we buy a lake house, and we buy it sooner rather than later, because it's the happy place that our children will always come back to and then the grandchildren will come back to. And he said I remember that because of that, I want to personally give your family a lake lot, so that one day your children will know that God has given that to them.
Speaker 2:Now it just does that not communicate the abundant heart of God, the promises of God. In some ways you know the throughout scripture. It says God lavishes his love upon you. And you know for that to be the very first gift, not just a gift to the church, but then a gift in the world of vision and I'm someone that's just wired for vision and live in the realm of vision. It's what kind of keeps me alive but then a gift that's personalized toward our family. I can't begin to describe how much that increased our faith.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know it's easy to hear somebody else's story that is like, well, good for you, you know, isn't that nice. I'm glad he showed up for you. You know, I'm sitting here in my point of need, but I think, I think I just would want to encourage you to just adjust your thinking, if that was maybe something that ran through your mind, because that is him, that is his goodness that he wants to lavish on you as well. And so I think, you know, sometimes we can hear something like that and it not encourages us, but instead the enemy twists it and kind of discourages you Like, well, that hasn't happened to me yet.
Speaker 2:Well, in every testimony brings forth the spirit of prophecy, and so that testimony releases in a way that is prophetic for the very people listening, for them to realize no, this isn't just, god's not limited in his goodness.
Speaker 1:He didn't run out of his ability to bless.
Speaker 2:Right, or his generosity or his abundance, and he has a level of that that's available for every single one of us. Honestly, one of the things that I've had to learn throughout my lifetime but even learn, relearn, you know, in the last five years is pray bigger prayers than we can answer, bigger prayers than we can generate, and that we need to pray according to you know. One of the ways I'd like to say is we need to pray according to the size of our God, not the size of the mountain.
Speaker 1:So, chris, that began well, I don't know that that began.
Speaker 1:I feel, like the entire journey there's definitely seasons of want, there's definitely seasons of financial insecurity, but at the same time, it was almost more in our hearts than in our, than in the tangible things, like we didn't go without food, like it was like it was like manna every day.
Speaker 1:And so I think, sometimes, again, when we get in a place where we're you know we're struggling with fear and we're struggling with knowing the future and we're just we can almost project it to be worse than it is, and we can. And it's like I can't see how this is going to be sustained three years from now. And God's going I'm going to give you what you need for today and you have what you need for today, and so trust me that you're going to have what you need for tomorrow. And so there were definitely it wasn't all rainbows and butterflies by a long shot, and I think we talked in one of our earlier broadcasts of just about how we got to the end, to the end, to the end, to the end and like, okay, god, and that was how. You know, that was kind of our preamble to going to Cleveland, but that a lot of times we're fearing that his provision will run out, and yet it never has.
Speaker 2:And let me even I'll kind of fast forward and then go backwards for just a second. You know, in many ways what we're trying to do is kind of give some of the highlights right now. It's got like a highlight reel so that people's faith can be inspired. But even if we fast forward right now, there are extraordinary things that God's doing, but actually the need has continued to actually become greater, not less, and we're really living in this place. A friend asked me on the days like he called he's like okay, shoot me straight, how you really doing, and I said the simplest, fastest, quickest way I know how to say it is we're definitely out of the boat and we're either going to walk on water or we're going to sink. But I don't believe God has brought us as far to sink and so there's still need. But when you're living in a realm of faith, vision precedes provision, and so you've got to keep dreaming God's dream, not our dream, god's vision. What we've really learned in this is God is fully committed to restoring his own vision. He's not just restoring Chris and Karen, he's restoring his vision, he's restoring his name, he's restoring his people, and when that happens, we're blessed enough to get restored in the process. You know, let me just tell one or two more stories and then we can make sure people have enough here that it just increases your faith for wherever you are in the journey. And so, as we are, you know, just kind of in the second year of the life of the church, which really in many ways is the first year of the life of the church because of COVID, you know we started building campaign and you know we don't know where we're going to be yet. I mean, we're going against all the rules that they kind of teach you in fundraising and stuff. But it was one of those things where I felt like God said just Chris, start the car, start the engine and I'll show you where to drive it. And so we did some research and we did some educated guessing and we thought that we needed about four million dollars in order to either renovate a place or to build a place, something of that nature. Well, if we needed four million dollars, that meant in order to get a loan we were going to need eight hundred thousand dollars down, all right. Well, I mean, you know, for a church that's less than a hundred people at that point in time that's virtually impossible.
Speaker 2:But we entered into 40 days of fasting and we called it. This was something different. We had never called it before. 40 days of fasting for fulfillment, that fasting actually ends in feasting. In about day 10 in that process, I was in this very room and was having, you know, just my rollercoaster of faith and doubt.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I'm praying in a prayer enters my mind that I've never prayed before God in our over 25-year history of ministry. Would you begin to bless people where either they would sell their business or they would acquire a business or they would be promoted Somehow or another? You would bring them into this type of you know, cash flow, cash opportunity where you would bless them in such a extraordinary way that they had some capacity and that God you would put upon their heart to tithe to us, and would you even give them a dream that they're supposed to tithe to us All right Now, I've literally never prayed that prayer before.
Speaker 2:In about a week to 10 days go by and I get a phone call from a friend that I've not seen, probably in over 10 years, and someone that I respect and love, and he said, hey, I'm gonna be in Memphis, wanna catch up for dinner. And you know absolutely, yes, I would love to catch up with you for dinner. And again, this is a person that I was just fully expecting to have a friendship catch up. I'm not expecting this to be a financial conversation in any capacity whatsoever. And we go to dinner and he says hey, I've been listening to your podcast and I'm gonna go great, you would about 25 other people, right? I mean, we were very small and If that yeah.
Speaker 2:And so and he says I know you need $800,000. And I thought where in the world is this conversation going? And he says listen, he said you know, I own 13% of the company that I work for. I'm in the process of seeing if, you know, I could purchase it and I've got a letter of intent. I've talked to the bank and you know all these things that I'm trying to do. And he says in about a. You know, as I hear your podcast and I hear your need and as I'm trying to do this, about a week goes by, maybe 10 days go by and all of a sudden, this company gets another offer from a publicly held company that offers $58 million. And he said, chris, 13% of $58 million is $8 million and obviously 10% of $8 million is $800,000. And he said that night God gave me a dream. I was supposed to tie it to you. I had never spoken to him.
Speaker 2:There is no explanation other than the Holy Spirit speaking through prayer, connecting the dots for God to restore God's very own vision. Now, if God can do that for us, god can do that for anyone listening to this. Now, those large numbers may sound intimidating, or whatever it is, but nothing's too big for God. God is bigger than the mountain. God can move the mountain in, whatever your unique circumstances. I'm asking you to apply the faith that says God kind of in many ways, I know I can't, but I know you can.
Speaker 2:And God, I am asking you to be God in my life right now. God, I am asking for you to move the mountain. God, I am asking you to give a miracle and the only reason we are progressing through kind of this wilderness season and we believe right now we have stepped into the Jordan River, we believe the waters have parted. We're, honestly, we're walking through it in this very moment, in real time. We're not completely on the other side yet, but we believe we are walking through and we are going to see the waters close behind us and we're going to see that we will enter a new promised land. Now, when you're in the promised land, there's still giants. In the promised land, there's still enemies. You got to defeat all that kind of stuff, but God isn't limited and only does this for us. God can do this for any single person and take them from that place of pain to promise.
Speaker 1:Well, chris, as we wrap up this particular podcast, I hope that, just through stories, honestly, of God's faithfulness in the highs and lows and the way sometimes he used people, sometimes he used the word of God, sometimes he used provision, but he has so many different tools that he chooses to use to show us, as his children, that that he is God and he is faithful and that he's a good, good father, and so I hope, no matter where you are on your journey today, that you will know that the same God that has been faithful to us, is faithful to you and is just longing to bless you is, in the same way that he held our hands through our journey, that he is there for you as well. So I hope that this has been an encouragement to you. We look forward to being with you next time. Take care.