Unwasted Pain
Join us on a thought-provoking journey as we delve into the depths of human experience and explore the intricacies of unwasted pain. In our podcast, "Unwasted Pain," we tackle the universal yet often misunderstood topic of pain and provide insights, support, and guidance for those seeking to navigate the challenges it presents.
Unwasted Pain
Divine Melodies: Unveiling the Power of Worship Music
Journey alongside us in an episode filled with music, faith, and tales of triumph over adversity. We welcome the incredibly talented Zimbabwean musician, George Mhondera, who sheds light on his inspiring journey, from his humble beginnings to sharing the stage with renowned artists such as Matt Redman and Chris Tomlin. George's unyielding faith and passion for music are a testament to the power of finding your purpose and standing for what you believe in.
Well, welcome to Unwasted Pain. You're in for an incredible treat today, because a good friend of mine named George Mondera is with us today, and George has a fascinating backstory and just a real heart for God, and then an amazing talent and an ability to communicate that heart through his music. So, george, it's a privilege to have you join us today.
Speaker 2:It's so good to be here. I mean I can't believe I'm here. I know we only met once previously and but God just brought us together. I just feel like you know, our hearts connected right, and so I'm excited to be here. Absolutely, I love that I'm here.
Speaker 1:You know, george, everyone enjoys hearing someone's backstory. So you know, currently you've had the privilege of working with Matt Redman and you know just such an extraordinary individual songwriter God's used around the world, chris Tomlin. You've had the privilege of opening up on tour for him and working with him, and you do great music in your own right. But that all of that present tense stuff has a backstory. Right, give us a little bit of your backstory.
Speaker 2:My backstory is a long backstory. So I was born in Zimbabwe, you know, which is in the southern part of Africa, to Janet Mondera and Israel Mondera. My dad, you know my dad's passed on, you know, 15 years ago, but my mom is still alive. She still lives in Zimbabwe. I've got seven brothers. Wow.
Speaker 2:You know, I had seven brothers. My oldest brother passed away, you know, from HIV age. You know, back then you didn't have all the treatments and stuff like that, you know. But yeah, so I've still got six, you know, six brothers left, you know, one in Germany, one in Canada, one in England, one in Sweden and one in South Africa and another one in Zimbabwe. So we kind of spread out all over the place and but yeah, I grew up in Zimbabwe, such a beautiful country in the southern part of Africa.
Speaker 2:You know we didn't grow up with much. You know mom and dad had to really work hard to give us a good education, you know, and change things like from how they grew up. You know they grew up very rural, you know, in Hudson, right Washing in the river and, you know, without electricity, so very different from how I grew up. But my dad was just this amazing driven guy who loved the world and just wanted to, you know, do his best, and so he was the first guy ever in his village to go to university. Wow, and just through that he helped a lot of people. You know, he moved to the city, worked for the real company and just did well, you know, and so just brought up. You know, we went up moving, so growing up in the city and just as a young kid, just man, I think I was always moved by music. I think that's something that I was always moved by melodies and all these songs, you know, early songs that were in the 80s. I'll say I'm in 80s kids, you know.
Speaker 1:I love the 80s. I'm a product of the 80s Power songs stage songs you know.
Speaker 2:And so anyway, I think God just moved my heart then and also I think just you know how I came to know the Lord was more like. You know I used to. You know the African sky is amazing. I don't know if you've been to Africa.
Speaker 1:I have yes.
Speaker 2:And just you know, just you know the creation there, like in terms of animals, and just how bustling it is. You know, and I'd always wonder, you know, who made all this stuff? Surely there must have been a creator, someone who thought and spoke this stuff into being, and I think that's where I kind of like you know, I'd sit out at night and I think God just drew my heart to him.
Speaker 1:you know and.
Speaker 2:I just knew he created everything you know. And so from a young age, you know, started going to church. My parents would send us to church and I just loved it. You know there was a Methodist church, you know, and you know grew up singing hymns and just again just moved by those old hymns and those old choruses and stuff. And I remember I just dream, and me and my brothers would sit out at night because sometimes they would cut electricity, right, right and you know there's nothing to do but sit outside in the days of the stars and we lived under the flight path, we'd see all the planes go by and you know would argue about where the planes were going.
Speaker 2:That was going to America, that was going to England, that was going over there.
Speaker 2:But, you know, just dreaming like one day, lord, you know, I want to go over to all these places and I want to serve you and I want to sing songs, and you know. But it was such a dream that was almost untouchable. You know what I mean. It was so distant, you know. But you know that's where kind of. You know that heart, that God, you know, just to be used by him through music and to travel the world. Just came from and a band comes to town.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know there were Christian bands. I ended up meeting this band and they don't know much about me, but I just connect with them and next thing they're asking me to come and audition in South Africa.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You know, to join the band. I go down there, you know, pack a little bag thinking oh, you know, you know I'll be back home. You know my parents like okay, go ahead and enjoy yourself and you'll be back. And that's when I left home. I ended up joining this band, and I mean from there, god just took me around the world.
Speaker 1:You know, several times I heard you say you would just go out at night and think, you know, you'd look at the sky, you'd look at the stars. And you know, in our culture today we're so consumed with just noise and there's so many things to distract us. You know, maybe, what are some things that you do today to try to go back to those moments where you simplify and you just have the ability to pull yourself away from distractions so that you can have those kind of childlike thoughts again that just begin to look up in the sky and dream again.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think like I still do that now. I still do that now. I'm a bit of a night owl, so but I love going out at night again and just looking at the stars and just hearing the nature. You know, we live in Nashville, tennessee, and kind of out a little bit in the country, a place called College Grove and it's kind of a lot of nature there and so I just love, you know, the simplicity of just hearing nature.
Speaker 2:But I mean, africa is a different place, you know, I feel you know there's just growing up there. You just realize you don't have all the excess stuff Right. So I feel like you know, now that I'm over here it's amazing, you know how much excess stuff that I just have. That, like you know, when I think back you know to where I grew up and what I had, like it just helps me remind me that hey, you know all this stuff sometimes, george, is it? You know it can take. It can take so much space in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and actually it means nothing. You know it's gonna go one day. You know what I mean. You know we all like our stuff, like right, this stuff, and so so I think me from myself is just trying to just remember where I came from. A lot I try to remember the things that are valuable to people. Yeah, just, you know, love people, you know, just connect with people and say hello. The little simple things, you know. It doesn't have to be a deep thing, but right, but it's just nice to connect with people, you know, and so I don't know. So that's part of the little things.
Speaker 1:When you think back to growing up in Zimbabwe, you know now that you live in America, if my memory is correct, growing up there were still in your country. You know segregation and different elements of the way that maybe racism existed in your country. Yeah, speak about that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean, zimbabwe only had its independence in 1980. So I was born, you know, obviously I was three years old when the war happened, so we actually had a civil war. So it's interesting, you know, because when I look at how I grew up and how my parents grew up, it's totally different. So they grew up in a segregated, totally, you know, they couldn't mix with white people, and so I remember my mom. You know I've just been talking to my mom a lot about it and you know she was a nurse and you know I was like so, mom, how is it for you growing up? And she remembers, like you know, the black nurses would have to sit under a tree and while the whiteness is sat inside, you know, you know the buildings, they couldn't use China cups, they had to use tin cups, you know, and all these things. You know there was curfews for the city, you couldn't go to certain places, you couldn't shop to certain places. So in that sense, I didn't, you know, I didn't, you know, live it that way in Zimbabwe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then growing up, going to school, you know, by the time we went to school, the country had, you know, you know it had gone through independence, but just to think that there was a civil war and the kids that I was a school with were integrated right, but our parents had literally fought against each other. So they will be sat in these, you know, stands watching their kids play, you know sport, and but you know there was that division. You could still see the division black parents over here, white parents over there, white. You know people hung out here, you know black people, and so it was very confusing. But in another way, you know there was a. The kids didn't have that over them. So for us like you know we were it was almost like a slate that was clean. Wow, you know. So, relationally, you know we didn't have the same prejudices that our parents had. So God did something pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, that is amazing because a lot of times a prejudice is passed down through the generations.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you kind of carry the offense of your previous generations. Were there things that maybe your parents did, whether it was talking about forgiveness, or were there ways that they helped you have that clean slate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think my dad, like my dad and my mom, I mean I think there were certain families. I remember growing up, that people or friends who were affected in a different way and they had very different views of bitterness and just some forgiveness. But in my family I think my parents are lovers of people. They've always been lovers of people and my mom always want to see the best in things and I think it was the love of Jesus in their heart. I feel like that had been passed on to them. That was just like, hey, we don't do this in the south, we got to love everybody and so those things. When you see your parents how they're behaving in certain situations or you're seeing other parents behaving in a totally different way, you're like, oh, there's something to model of that. So I think what they modeled for us was amazing. Without knowing it, we're just watching them how they responded to certain situations and he also being strong.
Speaker 2:I remember going to South Africa later on. So South Africa obviously only had independent 1995. I mean, like it wasn't a long time ago but we would go on holiday to South Africa and I remember I was a bit older then, I was 13 years old, and I remember things were still very segregated there. You had black beaches, you had black benches, black restaurants. But I was a bit older and I couldn't understand why, dad, we couldn't sit there, we couldn't go there, and my dad was quite defined. So he ends up taking us to all these places where we shouldn't be, which is very dangerous. But he was like no, that's where we need to be with everybody. And one of the things that sticks out for me was being at the beach in Durban and we ended up going to a white Sony beach and we haven't not been there for five minutes and all these police and riot police come to take us away and stuff. And I remember there being a lot of commotion and just being fearful like, oh my gosh, we're going to go to jail for this.
Speaker 2:And then there were tourist people from, I think, from the UK, from Europe, from America, who happened to be the, who are white, who ended up coming to our defense and going, no, you need to leave this family. So it was just a strong impact. I was like having grown up with some of those things like, oh, you know well, black people can't make it. I remember some white people coming to our defense. That had a strong impact on my life. I was like, well, not everyone is bad on that side. What they say, you know, maybe people, everyone thinks, oh, you know they're against you. You know that had an impact on my life. I was like man, you know, it's just certain people make decisions that are not great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this morning, because what you just said maybe think of something that you and I experienced this morning. Right, we went to the National Civil Rights Museum here in Memphis, tennessee, and one of the things that we saw is that people always have a choice, and some chose to be passive, and I don't remember who the original author of this quote is, but it says all that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. And so some chose to be passive. Where, then we saw, there were others, like there were the freedom riders, and there were eight African-Americans, and then there were eight white people that chose to take these freedom rides together and they chose to stand up in walk in solidarity, and they chose to stand up for their brother and for that moment in your life to happen at that beach. You know, in a small way, this one family began to. That act gave you the opportunity to view others in a positive light instead of a negative light.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, and that's the power of standing up for something right we stand up for nothing.
Speaker 2:We can fall for everything, and I guess the need is too great. There's so much around us that's wrong, right, you know, and it's easy, when you're in your own comfort space and you know things are going well, for you just to turn a blind eye. And I just think we've got to be people that have our eyes open, right, because that's what Jesus. Jesus was always looking for the broken. He was recognizing things and where there was need, he was there, serving people, and one amongst the people where there was issues and stuff. And so, yeah, we've got to come to the rescue of others.
Speaker 1:Well, and one of the things I love that you said is that your parents loved people, yeah, and I just from knowing you for a short time and then you and I each have good friends. That you know. We've known, that know one another, and so I kind of know you through our friends, but you definitely love people well, so I know your parents are incredibly proud of you. That I know. As a parent myself, you know my most proud moments for my adult son and adult daughter is when I watch them love well, right.
Speaker 1:So in light of that, since you know we went through the museum today, maybe what was just one or two takeaways of your experience going through them as museum, as someone from Zimbabwe and you know you've lived in America now for how many years? For five years now, so five years. So now you've got a little bit of a unique context. You, you know, have lived all over the world in different places and now you know you're in America and Until someone hears you speak, they would just see you and think, another kind of African-American that's born in America. What was some unique aspects of your experience today?
Speaker 2:I mean, to be honest, just a lot of grief too, just the burden of seeing what sin can do, just the food of sin, right, when you sow seeds of hate, of prejudice, and just what destruction it brings you. And I have been talking about this city and just the history of this city, some of those things that are here now, the poverty that's here, the crime that's here, these are just remnants of seed that were sown back then. So I think that was some of the things, just trying to process that it's the same everywhere. When you sow bad seeds, when you sow sin, those seeds of prejudice or racism, they just reap destruction. And that's the same that happened in my country, some of the things that are still happening there. It's the same everywhere.
Speaker 2:And I guess just being moved to act and not just stand on the sidelines and I'll just look at Dr King and all those people who sacrificed their lives, put their lives on the line, we're willing to die for it. It wasn't just about speaking, and I know you showed me something interesting about just a non-violence thing, about how they just practice non-violence. It actually went and was like because when you see those videos and just the brutality of what they were actually facing. I mean, your natural reaction is to retaliate Because you haven't done anything wrong and stuff, but you want to retaliate but just the willingness of people to stand up and make a difference and to choose to love, I mean for me that spoke so much and I was like Lord, I need to get involved in this. Some of these problems are still here. We've come a long way, but just to remind you, for us to do nothing, it just kind of takes away from everything that they sacrificed.
Speaker 1:If we stop the work and do nothing, Because we know from Scripture and we know from history and we know from practical experience the enemy is always seeking to still kill and destroy. He's like a roaring lion, so he's never doing nothing, he's always active. And so, in that regard, we have got to not only protect ourselves against some of the lies of the past and protect ourselves from the way that he spends a new line, deceives us today, but we need to be proactive. That's right, because if love isn't present, then he's going to take that and it's not going to stay neutral, neutral, doesn't exist. He's going to begin to form these little opinions where you think of someone as less than, and soon, as you think of someone as less than, you accidentally think of yourself as better than, right or more than, and then, when that happens, if we're not loving someone, we can begin to maybe get mad at someone and disappointed in someone, and then, somehow or another, that progression ends up into hate, and so it doesn't even have to get to hate in order for it to be a problem, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:So, like you know, one of the things that we talk about, we have another ministry called Race for Reconciliation, and we talk about healing, honor, hope. We need healing from the past, honor in the present, because it's not good enough to go from dishonor just to neutral. You need to go from dishonor to honor and then hope for the future. So you know, as you look at kind of the way God has used you musically to communicate His truth, what are some of the things that you've seen in your journey that have just kind of been the ways that you can see the hand of God orchestrating? Maybe it's opening the door, maybe it's a relationship, maybe it's, you know, just giving you an idea for a song. How have you seen God begin to bless your ministry and continue to kind of just you know, nurture, you know and fuel the way that he works through you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know you say the key word the relationships.
Speaker 2:You know, like it's all about the relationships. You know, I think we can't work alone at anything, you know, and so I feel the Lord has been so kind to provide people in my life to champion me and to help me grow you know, I can't say I've grown on my own and opened doors and even to be around guys like you know, matt Redman and Chris Tomlin, you know, I mean, these are guys that I would look up to and listen to their stuff and all of a sudden, you know, I'm on stage with them. You know, that's not because I'm more talented than anyone, or you know, I think God's looking for, you know, says. You know, man looks at the outside, but God looks at the heart Right. And I just think you know we have to make ourselves available. I think when we open our hearts and we say, lord, you know, what do you want to do? I'm open. Where you're leading me, where do you want me to go? What do you want me to say? What do you want me to do?
Speaker 2:I feel then he works then, he comes in and he leads you, he points you in the right direction, he surrounds you with people. So that's what it's been about for me. My growth has just been the Lord leading me and me being just dependent on that. Well, because I know where I came from and I just know my talent. You know you're in securities. So you're like, oh my gosh, I didn't do this.
Speaker 1:Well, when I hear you describe that, I hear that principle follow your favor. That God's given you favor with certain people and you've been able to follow that favor. And the more we put ourselves around godly people, that's contagious and we can sharpen them and they can sharpen us In the world of favor. I also know that God's given you an amazing wife. Her name's Lucy. Lucy, yeah, what are some ways that God's just used her to sharpen you and make you the man that you are?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, where do we start?
Speaker 2:Like oh you got to look. She makes her look all right, addressing the right clothes. No, lucy's been just an amazing woman, just who loves Jesus and just loves just championing other people. She really has a heart for the broken, and when you have a heart for people, the things that breaks God's heart, yes, it's just amazing, it's like a light. But for me, I mean, she's just been so faithful in terms of just helping me be who I am, helping me to grow, giving me space, being just so encouraging when times I'll doubt myself. I don't know. Creative people. We're up and down.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:One day we think we can take on the world and then next thing's like, oh my gosh, what am I doing? Have I messed it up? But she's just been such a strong support and just a great calling on her life and so me watching her live out her calling as well has just been an encouragement and just strong loves Jesus, just the values and the character in her and just how, again also, her parents raised her up and her dad was a phenomenon, her mom just phenomenal people who were mission-hearted, loved worship, loved God and wanted to make a difference.
Speaker 2:So she's just been a pillar of strength and I don't think I'll be the man I am today.
Speaker 1:You can attest to that I can attest to that I got to be carrying in shows like yeah, now I know why Chris be like that.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's that quote behind every good man's a great woman. Here you go, there you go. So, as we're talking about influential people in your life, who are some of the people that influenced you the most musically Wow, I mean, you see, I like a lot of music, Chris. Yeah, all different types.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think, when it comes to just music, I love the 80s, I love, like Phil Collins oh yeah, sure what was amazing. I just love the police. I just love big melodies and Big Band's. You Too was always a great band.
Speaker 1:One of my favorites.
Speaker 2:That we like you Too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I saw them in Birmingham, I saw them in Chicago and I saw them in Paris.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so amazing. So yeah, there was a lot of bands back in the 7th Earth, wind and Fire. I know we went to the studio Boom, mitchell, al Green, all that early soul stuff. I love it. It comes to worship. I mean, for me, when my dad got sick, he got a stroke when I was 15. And at that time there was a lot of music by Don Moan, hosanna, integrity stuff.
Speaker 2:Man it just some of that worship those early choruses just really fortified something in my heart musically and just strengthened Just what God was doing through that worship, I think gave me a heart for him in an amazing way, and I guess that's what it's here today.
Speaker 1:So that's some of the stuff that I would say, and that's what I wanted. I'm so glad you answered the question broad. First, because music is the language of the soul, and, whether someone's a believer or not, they can tap into God's truth and they can communicate it in extraordinary ways that touch our heart, and so I love all genres of music, but there's obviously a special place in our hearts for worship music. So who are some of the people that have shaped and influenced you the most in the world of worship music? I mean?
Speaker 2:so the early stuff, guys like Ron Canole.
Speaker 1:OK, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like that was just amazing. And then Don Moan, Don Moan and a lot of the Hosanna integrity stuff and God will make a way where there seems to be no way and Christ alone plays much. I mean, there were just these songs in the church, Keith Green, some of those early songs and choruses that were in the church that were just bubbling up and I think they just really shaped some of my early, my heart for worship, I guess. And then Delarius. There was a band called Delarius from the UK. They were so cutting it Mark Short.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:They were just doing a mixing worship with just with new sounds and just new expressions, but just so much truth in what they were doing. And in early days then I got to meet Matt. So it was interesting. That's how I met Matt Early days. My band at that time we would do a lot of outreach, we were a mission band and we would do all the Oster hour stuff and he would do the worship stuff.
Speaker 2:And I remember in 97, I was in South Africa. That's the first time I sang with Matt in 1997. So it's a long time ago. And he was like, mate, I'm leading worship here in South Africa at an outreach team, can you come sing with me? And I'd never really I'd always done music.
Speaker 2:But to be close to someone who carried that anointing and when it was more than just singing songs and performing, you could see just the atmosphere in that place changing, just the presence of God, like experiencing that and just an anointing and seeing freedom come into the room in that way, that was like oh, this is a different thing. It was just. I was like this is Lord. I've not experienced this a lot. I want to go deeper with this, I want to know more, and so through that, in an amazing way, I end up starting to travel with him and when you're around that and someone who carries that gift that God has really given, you can't help but take stuff on Absolutely and learn and grow and being in that environment all the time. So I'll guess that's how I kind of grew up, like you know, grew in doing music and, you know, in worship and stuff.
Speaker 1:You alluded to this. I was going to ask you this question later, but since you were kind of on this stream of thought, I'll go ahead and ask it now, as you have had the privilege of whether it's in Africa, whether it's in the UK, whether it's Germany or the US leading worship. What are some of the unique things that you've seen about the way the Spirit of God unifies people through worship? Because there's all different types of you know, sometimes there's language barriers, you know. Sometimes everyone has, you know, kind of their own, maybe, denomination, but yet there's these moments where you can sing a song and just everyone is in one place, locked in, singing, you know, and hopefully the same key to God. What have you seen about the power of the way the Spirit of God unifies?
Speaker 2:I think it's because of where we're starting. I think it's who we all, you know the subject matter is that we're gathering for him. You know what I'm saying in those places. So all these other differences, you know. You know, when we get to do these things, you know, you feel there's different streams and we all got different thoughts about different things, and you know, but the subject matter is him.
Speaker 2:So I feel like, you know, and when we unified, when we gather in that place, you know we're already unified because we're under his banner, you know, and so there's a spirit of unity in that place and in the Holy Spirit. You know, I think if we're just gathered there just to sing songs, you know there'll be no change, right, we just, you know, worship, you know, without change, is just a game. But because we gathered there for him, you know, and we're in his presence and Holy Spirit is leading us to worship, change comes and you know the things that God cares about. You know he's about us being together, right and like. So there's a spirit of oneness in that place that just flows from his throne as we worship him, you know, and so. And then there's something about, you know, gathering and singing the same truth. We're singing the same truth. It's almost like you know, voices together joining in the same beat, the same rhythm, and our voices taking that. There's just something supernatural that happens when we touch the heart.
Speaker 1:Well, typically, when the term one accord is used, one accord means of one mind and one heart unified. Well, one mind, one heart turns into one voice you know, so talk to us a little bit about.
Speaker 1:You know just every person, whether they're musically gifted or not, is a worshiper. Talk to us a little bit about just though, the importance of private worship before kind of corporate worship. You know, of being a worshiper daily, whether that's your devotional time, whether that's just kind of as you were going, just in the sense of keeping a song in your heart. You know whether it's, you know in the car, but just not just turn on worship when you attend church, but a lifestyle of worship.
Speaker 2:It's a lifestyle, yeah, and you just say the word it's a lifestyle, you know. I know yesterday we were sharing a tremble. I just say you know, it's about staying close to the throne. I just think you know when we hang out at the throne where the Lord is, you know it changes us. You know we become more like him. You know what I mean. It affects every area of our lives. You know whether we need strength, you know we draw. Because we're close to him, we get our strength. If we need rest, we're close to him, we find rest. You know. If we need refuge in that place of worship, like as we close to him, you know, and so I think the thing is to just try to remain close.
Speaker 2:And I think as well, we always think worship is about songs. I feel like it's about, you know, serving others and living out. You know actively. You know it's about people. How we love, you know, because when we love him, we love the things that he cares for and the things that he's called us to do, and so that's living out worship by us serving people.
Speaker 2:And, like you were talking about, you know where we went today, you know, to the museum to see Martin Dr King. Yeah, dr King, and you know, when we love God, we respond to the things that he cares about, you know. And so I think, yeah, just living a life style of worship is about you know what it means. You know, singing to him and adoring him for who he is worshiping, for who he is first, and then all coming to him in a time of need and saying God, you know you, you know you're the giver of life, you're the one who restores, you know everything that we can ever want we can find in him. And so when we choose to follow that and I think that's what a love worship can be- yeah, I couldn't agree more that lifestyle.
Speaker 1:You know, in Romans 12, it says do not be conformed to this world, but to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And it talks about you know, to present yourselves as the living and holy sacrifice. This is your spiritual act of worship, you know. So you have a unique perspective. A lot of times you're on stage and you're trying to lead, you know a crowd, a congregation, you know to join in and start worshiping, so that all the worship isn't just happening on stage. You're not performing, you're trying to get people to worship with you.
Speaker 1:And you'll see some people, just, I mean, they're in with you, right there from the beginning and they're locked in and they're like let's go. And then there's other people that maybe they have their hands in their pocket, maybe they're looking at their phone, they're a little distracted. What recommendations or what would you say to people about? Hey, even if they don't think that maybe I don't have a good voice, maybe I'm not musically inclined, how would you encourage people that when you come to worship, how to just engage? You know, just not everything all engaged. It's going to look the same. Some people are extroverts, some people are introverts. You know I'm not asking, you know that saying everybody's got to raise their hand, but just from your perspective of seeing the crowd, how do you, just how would you, encourage each, just individual person to take a baby step toward more and more worship?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's again to know who we're there for who are we worshiping?
Speaker 2:You know, when we understand that God is majestic, he's mighty, he's all powerful, you know, he's full of splendor and he's just so far, much greater than we can ever imagine, that will cause you to worship, like I'm saying there's no way. I'm always taken to try and imagine what the throne room is like. Yeah, there you go. You know, these angels have been worshiping the same since creation, like I mean, they must be seeing you only worship something that you think is. It blows your mind Right. So it's almost like they've seen God and like, oh my God, you know worthy holy, oh my God, you know glory to your name. You know they're falling in worship to him. And so I think, as we come as worshipers, when we step into that place, you know, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I think that's the only way we can worship. We need the Holy Spirit to lead us, you know, to understand who we're worshiping.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That you know, and then to understand how good God has been, that I mean this God, who's so great and mighty and amazing, has been so full of mercy and full of grace, and that he allows us to be in his presence and that he wants a relationship with us. You know, I mean that should cause us to fall on our knees, to raise our hands or just to you know, to take a step close. And I always say this you know we're never close enough. You know, and you know the Bible says you take it. You know, if you draw close to me, I'll draw close to you. And so, whether you feel you're close enough, I'm like, oh, I'm close you can always take another step closer. If you feel like you know you're in the back end, just take the step closer to him. He'll draw close to you Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I feel like you've said a couple of different times and I want to re-emphasize this because I think it's such an important point Just get closer. You know, because it's like sometimes you look at a picture and it's from a distance, you can't see all the details, but if you zoom in, you see more and more of the details with God. You zoom in, you see more and more of the beauty, more and more of the glory, more and more of the majesty, and so we just got to zoom in, and then, when we zoom in, it's virtually impossible not to worship.
Speaker 2:It's impossible not to worship, you know. And so, in that sense, like encouraging to people, you know, just take a step closer to him and he'll draw close to you, and you know, and as you do that, you see things in your life changed. You see more freedom come, or you will see more healing, you know, healing areas of your life, you know, because I think that's what the presence of God does, right? He exposes things in our lives, and you know, and just helps us grow and become more like him and also just learn more about who God is. You know he takes us deeper, right. You know we want to know him more, we want to be close to him and it just it changes our lives, you know. And so take a step closer.
Speaker 1:Love it. Yeah, and that question was a little bit about the perspective of the person that's, you know, in the audience becoming a worshiper. Let's flip it for a second and talk to, maybe, young worshipers. You know young worship leaders, you know people that are. You know that God's gifted them this way and they're wanting to grow as a worship leader. If you could, you know, take your past, maybe 20 years of experience and say here's kind of three best practices, here's three recommendations you know, for someone that's God's wanting to use, you know, as a worship leader. What would you say to him?
Speaker 2:I mean again, I think it's kind of for me I'd say it's important to think about, as a worship leader, where you're starting from. You know that we're not trying to get anything going. You know there's already worship happening.
Speaker 1:Amen, you know, so we're not trying to create anything. We don't create anything.
Speaker 2:We don't move people's hearts, we don't. You know we join in with this eternal song. That's already happening in heaven and you know we get to participate in that. And so I think, from where you start, you know it's almost like you know we, you know we gathering and knowing who we're worshiping, you know, so you don't have to. There's nothing that you don't mean like you don't have to try and do anything to get things going. You know God's going to do it, the Holy Spirit's going to do that.
Speaker 2:It's a Mojwara of the Lord's Prayer. You know our Father, you know who art in heaven. Hallowed be thy name. You know we start with that place. Given God all the glory. I feel like that's where you know to start in that place of knowing who we're worshiping and who we before, rather than sometimes, I think, as worship leaders. You know, we've really got to be careful that we're not always starting from a place of need. It's like, oh, you know we can't stay like Lord, you know, give us your daily bread first, but we've got to recognize who we are worshiping first and now. I'd say that's one of the things I would say for worship leaders. You know, let's recognize who we are before. And the second thing, just I'm trying to think here, you're good.
Speaker 1:This one second, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:We're only saying then yeah. And the second thing I'd like to say is just dependency. You know, I feel like sometimes, you know, we got to realize that we've got to be dependent on him.
Speaker 2:I remember for me one of the things that happened, the one time, you know, I was leading with Matt and it was a passion conference and he lost his voice and he was like man, you're going to have to lead the songs, and it was. I was so much I was like you know, like I can't do this. You know, like you know, I don't know how to do this. You know, I don't know how to do this. You know, I've done it, but I was like you know, I don't know how to lead this moment, you know, and I guess there was just a sense. One thing that I really learned in that moment was like you know, I don't have to do it. You know, I need to depend on him, I need to depend on all these great. He's the one who's going to come and and do that. So I think, just having a heart of knowing that you can depend on God, so just dependency, just remain in that place of dependency. And so I'd like to say you know, that's one thing. And and then also just to be aware of the people that we're leading, you know, I think that's why it's important.
Speaker 2:Worship is just not what happens on stage. I feel like it's about our community and getting to know our community. So if we don't know who we're leading, you know it's hard just to be able to speak into their lines and everything. So I think you know I always say, you know this what we do on stage is just the bonus stuff, yeah, but the real worship starts of how we serve people. You know. You know off stage. You know I'm saying you know, getting to know these stories, because then you know we're able to sing a song like oh, I know what you're going through, I know that you're struggling with that, I know that you know this is something that's happening in our community. That's a struggle so you're able to lead from that place and actually bring life into those situations.
Speaker 2:So so, knowing who we are leading, you're getting to know who we're leading, not just doing the songs up there and not knowing you know who we're leading. So I would say those are coming with three things.
Speaker 1:Beautiful. This podcast is titled Unwasted Pain and initially you hear that concept and you know, probably different things come to mind. But pain is universal. You know everyone has experienced some type of pain. Pain gets our attention, but God is never content to leave us in pain. God always wants to take us from pain to peace or from hurt to healing. And so in the world of worship maybe is there something that comes to your mind where you know you experienced healing of some type of pain in your life through a song that, like you know, there was something that you know, just it hurts you or you've grieved it a little bit. But there was a season where and and it can, sometimes it's a Christian song, sometimes it's not, but just there was just something about the ability to hear hope, hear healing through a song that brought healing into your soul. That was a part of your healing process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I know I spoke earlier about my dad, seeing my dad having a stroke in front of me. Like you know, we're at home with all the kids, we're in a TV room and and then seeing him fall on the ground and convulsing and not really knowing what it was, I'd never seen that, you know, and you know it kind of shakes you. There's just so much emotions and just you're thinking, oh my gosh, you know what is this? We're going to lose dad and this fear that comes in, you know. And I go back to those early songs. Like you know, I mean, god will make a way where there seems to be no way.
Speaker 2:I remember, like knowing you know some of the truth, that God is the healer. You know that God can heal, you know. And but I'm, like you know, I don't know if my dad, you know, but just hearing that worship and playing that over and over again, it's almost like peace to my soul and I was like Lord, you know. I know that the circumstances hasn't changed, but something inside me changed. Yeah, I don't know what it was, but it just something in my heart changes as I, as I, as we were worshiping, listening to some of those songs. It was almost like preaching, you know, right to my heart and preaching to my soul. It's like, well, trust the Lord, trust the Lord that he can come through, god will make a way where there seems to be no way, and so I think that's what worship does, right.
Speaker 2:Like you know, we, we sing these songs, we sing them over our situations and and maybe, yeah, in the physical we don't see ultimately something changed right away, but something inside of us changes. The faith arises, you know, there's just trust and there's a peace and a strength you can't even understand, because only God can give you that. When you are just like praising through that storm, through that pain and through pushing through, like no God, I know that, like it doesn't look like this, but I know in you that you, you can make a way that I can trust you and that you're working for my good, all these promises that he gives him. So so I feel like for me that was one of the most uh, just at that time, experiencing that and then through that I mean, I've worked through so many other things of pain, but the uh, the testimony of that, what God did in my heart then then helped me when I saw when that pain came again.
Speaker 1:It it prepared my heart to deal with some of the pains later down the line but when that happens, when you've experienced healing and you can associate it with a song or you can associate with a passage of scripture, then when you hear that song, again you experience the healing, again, you're reminded of the healing again. It's life giving, it's life given yeah, because that's what he's done.
Speaker 2:You're seeing the testimony of what God can do, you know, and, and there's something about looking back, yeah, to go forward. I think you know, as we, these little victories of what God has done in our lives, and you know we've got to look back and and and and use those as markers for our lives as we continue to experience pain, because you know there's always going to be pain. You know it's something. You know we're living this. You know we're living a broken world, you know. But God promises that we're never going to be alone, yeah, that he will never leave us in our pain. You know he'll. You know, you know he'll give us strength, he'll be with us as we walk through those difficult times well, and what I love so much about our faith is that our faith is recorded through songs.
Speaker 1:You know, like though I'm a preacher, people don't remember my messages near as much as they remember the song, I'm remembering your messages right now. Well, so that's kind of you, but a song is the language of the soul yeah, there's something and and when we put God's truth to music, it really has unlimited potential, yeah, to accomplish his purposes. Yeah, so, you know, as we've had the opportunity to have this great conversation today, I believe there's people that are going to want to check out your music. Yeah, so where should they go?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah they can look at georgia mandericom. Okay, you know I've got some music there. You know it's been amazing. You know, god's just been giving me my own voice. Yes, in these days, you know, I love serving people and I've got to serve with a lot of great guys like Chris, dominan and Matt, you know. But, uh, it's been great for God to give me my own song that I can share, you know, and and I've been able to do that. So Georgie jacket is my Instagram. Georgie jacket and georgia mandericom. You can see some of the new songs I've done. I've just released a song called not even once wow, and it just talks about God's faithfulness in my life. Like you know that Lord has never failed me, not even once. When I look back all the the things I've been through, god you've never failed me, not even once, and so go and check it out, it'd be great. You know, hope you can.
Speaker 1:Well, that is an incredible truth to end this podcast on that. God has not failed me, not even once. So, uh, go check out georgia's music, come on and, georgia's, we close today. I just uh, I really just sensed a moment ago, when you just said that God's given you your voice, he's given you kind of your song, and so I just uh speak this into you to affirm that and just pray that, uh, in the coming days, in the coming months, that there's going to be more and more expressions of the way that God has uniquely crafted you, uniquely wired you all the incredible experiences from around the world, and that that's all going to contribute to your voice. And I just uh, I really speak into you songs that are going to be breakthrough songs and that they're they're songs that, um, are going to have the ability to communicate how to love people incredibly well.
Speaker 1:I think what your voice is? It is a voice that loves people, and the favor that you have found is because you love people, and so what I just kind of speak to you in this moment are songs that have the ability to express the joy that lives inside of you, songs that have the ability to, in many ways, be contagious and go viral because of that joy and that there would just be something, that the joy that lives in you would be unleashed through your songwriting, through your music, through your worship. And we just pray God's hand a favor upon you and we are so grateful to consider you a friend, a partner, and we just bless you in that thank you, chris.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I love you know. I love what God's doing here at one city and I'm just excited to be a part of it. You know, I love what he's building here and just how he's called you for such a time as this. You and Karen, you know, and the people that you're leading your team, just continue. God continues to protect you and to lead you, to give you wisdom as you navigate all the different projects and different things that God isn't trusted you with. It's amazing. I know just the impact that you had on my life in just a short space, you know. You know I'm just excited and you know to follow as someone you follow what God's doing because I feel like he's doing something special. You want to be where he's doing something and he's doing great things, and so I'm thankful to be a part of that.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, please continue to follow Unwasted Pain. Share it with your friends. We really believe that the stories that you hear through this podcast will inspire you and it will cause others to prove love works.