Episode 034: Plantar Fasciitis - Identifying Its Cause & Developing An Effective Treatment

In this episode of the Taylor Method for Pain-Free Living, Dr. Hudson and Dr. Derek talk about plantar fasciitis. Plantar fasciitis is a common foot condition that causes pain in the heel and arch of the foot. 

Dr. Hudson and Dr. Derek dive into some patient cases of plantar fasciitis, its symptoms, and the incredible results they've. They also talk about the Taylor Method, which is a holistic approach they use to treat plantar fasciitis and many other conditions.

In the case of Plantar Fasciitis, the Docs explain how the Taylor Method focuses on the following:

- Identifying the root cause of the pain.

Dr. Hudson and Dr. Derek believe that it is important to identify the root cause of the pain to provide effective treatment and explain why taking a thorough exam and asking the right questions are essential.

- Restoring balance to the body. The Taylor Method focuses on restoring balance to the body by addressing the underlying issues that are causing the pain. From purchasing the right shoes to implementing proper biomechanics, finding, and correcting things that are causing imbalances are essential to not only keeping your feet healthy, but your entire body.

- Staying on top of powerful and yet simple lifestyle practices such as maintaining proper nutrition and staying hydrated. They also encourage you to adopt a healthy lifestyle, which includes eating a healthy diet and getting regular exercise.

- Providing effective tailored treatment for each patient. The Doctors share some of their amazing results from the cases they have seen.

Connect with Dr. Derek Taylor and Dr. Hudson Taylor on https://www.drderektaylor.com

Transcript

_ (00:04):

Welcome to the Taylor Method for Pain-Free Living. A podcast that features enlightening conversations with experts in the medical field that helps to improve the health and wellbeing of those suffering from chronic pain due to injury. Learn from leading authorities. The questions you should be asking to experience pain-free living hosted by father and son, Dr. Derek Taylor and Dr. Hudson Taylor. And joined by industry professionals in the health field, including doctors of integrative medicine and personal injury attorneys.

Dr. Hudson (00:42):

Great. Welcome to the Taylor Method for pain-free living. My name is Dr. Hudson Taylor, and we have Dr. Derek Taylor on today as well. Together we're gonna be discussing the plantar fasciitis. What are some of the hidden causes? Some of the inside scoop of what you need to know to understand and better help your condition, and most importantly what you can do to get on the right path to getting maximum improvement. And with the ultimate goal of resolution in mind. Dr. Derek Taylor, what are your thoughts on plantar fasciitis? What do you have to say about it?

Dr. Derek (01:20):

Well, it's a pretty common condition. We see it at our office many times. People come in with pain at the bottom of the foot. They, a lot of times they come in with self-diagnosis cuz it's pretty easy to diagnose any pain at the bottom of the foot, especially when you've been sleeping all night and you first get out of bed and they have that these, they first put pressure on that foot, that pain is excruciating at times. And after they've been on it for a period of time, it starts to loosen up some. And, but then it just gets old after a while because anytime you sit for any prolonged period of time and take pressure off of that foot, then when you get back on and do weight bearing again that that pain flares up. So we've seen it last for anywhere between a couple of weeks to a couple of years with some people. And even some people just have chronic plantar fasciitis that they just can't get rid of. And that's when a lot of times they just, they throw up the white flag and they say, I surrender. Let's gotta go see somebody for it. But what are some of the common remedies that you've seen in the practice there?

Dr. Hudson (02:24):

The common remedies? Well,

Dr. Derek (02:26):

At home remedies that you see people trying to do.

Dr. Hudson (02:28):

Oh, the at-home remedies you know, a lot of ice and heat and ibuprofen. Yeah. And then like maybe some foot braces and, or some inserts from happy feet, you know, or, or some sort of foot support. And splints and, you know, kind of bandages and, and just more medication.

Dr. Derek (02:53):

Yeah. We see a lot of people freezing water bottles and then rolling their feet on the water bottle. Have you ever hear that one there? People coming? Oh yeah. Do that one. So it's all like temporary symptom relief, but it really doesn't do much to resolve the problem in and of itself. Right. So, cause usually the problem is a little more complicated than rubbing some ice ice on it, or,

Dr. Hudson (03:16):

Yeah. You know, who, who gets this? You know, who, who have you seen with this, this condition? Well,

Dr. Derek (03:22):

It's usually seen in people that are, you know, middle aged. They start to get a little bit older, body starts to break down. So people in their forties, fifties, sixties, and it doesn't have to be that age, but that's what we commonly see. And then also people that are typically maybe that have slowly gained weight over the years. They put more weight on, that's a lot more pressure on the feet. When they start to add 5, 10, 15, 20 pounds onto their frame, it's just more than their load can handle. And then that, that will contribute to plantar fasciitis. We also see people that sometimes it's like acute trauma. We had a guy that came in, he recently, he jumped off of his boat trailer onto the, he thought he can just jump on the ground and he jumped on his, on the, on the asphalt, landed on his feet. And that just, that trauma itself triggered it and

Dr. Hudson (04:25):

Traumatized it there, comes

Dr. Derek (04:26):

Into the office, you know, four or five months later and dealing with it, trying to resolve it on his own. People with overuse, they're runners. They're, they're in the sport where they're running or jumping or they're playing pickleball or tennis. A lot of quick start stops overuse, especially you combine that with middle age. And then people whose diets aren't really super clean, they're eating inflammatory foods that have a lot of foods that their body doesn't do well with, whether it's dairy or gluten or brains or alcohol or other things that are gonna be causing inflammation within the joints there. So those are some common factors that, you know, we see also just occupational people that are just constantly on their feet that are constantly, it's, and it's overuse, but so funny. Why, why do you think that is? When somebody, they're, they've been walking, let's say all their life and their occupation, then all of a sudden plantar fasciitis pops up. They always ask that, Hey, I've been doing this for the longest time. Why does this show up now?

Dr. Hudson (05:39):

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Derek (05:40):

What do you think, how would you answer somebody that asked that question? Why? Why is it showing up now?

Dr. Hudson (05:48):

Yeah. I would just say, you know, there's, there's most likely some hidden things that have been really building up over the years. Yeah. You know, and that trauma or that fall or you know, jumping off the boat, that's, that was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. You know, cause you know, plantar fasciitis, I mean, the scar tissue begins to develop in that plantar fascia, which is the tight bands of thick muscle or tendon starts to, to really develop in, in the fascia of the plantar fascia. And that ha takes a lot of time to develop. It just doesn't happen overnight, you know?

Dr. Derek (06:26):

So yeah. Sometimes they'll get a new pair of shoes, right. And they'll, they, wow, they don't play. Oh yeah.

Dr. Hudson (06:31):

It'll trigger it.

Dr. Derek (06:32):

Or they might have a new occupation or they start playing a new sport, or they start to increase their workout. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> or they start to change their diet, or their diet starts to go south. And then now next thing you know, the nutrients and the quality to those tissues aren't quite as well. Sometimes it's in a, a mental stress. They're going through a financial crisis or a relational crisis and that kind of sets them off. Weakens the potty, puts it in a weakened state. All these factors are influencing factors which cause plantar fasciitis. Sometimes it's, you know, you think about women that are pregnant, they have all these hormones that are being released, these relaxing hormone and their extra weight gain plus the hormones. Sometimes we'll see them come in with plantar prostitis because of all the changes with pregnancy. And so number of different factors. That's where a good history comes in. Finding out what were the things that tipped that off. Cuz they always wanna know, why am I having this now? Where did this come from?

Dr. Hudson (07:39):

Yeah. You know, I just had a patient two weeks ago, come in, she's a avid pickleball player actually. Well now she is, but she's only been about a month into playing pickleball. She was doing great for the first month of pickleball playing like five times a week. But the second she got a new pair of shoes and started wearing a new pair of shoes and playing pickleball a month into it, all of a sudden her right heel exploded and inflammation, her plantar fresh plantar fashion became really, really tender and her whole heel became red and inflamed and swollen. Yeah. And, you know, it was all, it was all triggered after the poor, the new shoes that were new but were not the right shoes for her feet.

Dr. Derek (08:21):

Right. Or, you know, sometimes yeah, you are wearing a pair of shoes that you've been wearing for quite some time. Your body's gotten used to that and now you have a new set of shoes with new mechanics and new, new stressors and new changes in the angles of the shoes. And that can be enough to set things off. Also, a lot of the shoe companies, especially New Balance, I love New Balance. Yeah. New Balance about them. You got a, you got a size B with a size D, you got a size two E and you got a size four E, which is great mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. So you can really be really accommodating with the width. However, the problem with, I don't like with, with, just because it's New Balance. People say, I, I make a recommendation for New Balance and say, okay, that's a good shoe.

(09:04):

But, so they'll go to Big Five Sporting Goods and just get the cheapest pair of New Balance that's on sale. It's not the right model number mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And that can create issues for them. Or you might get the right model number. For example, I, for many years I've recommended like a 10 80 model for the New Balance. However, every like quarter, they seem like they're changing the style and the model of the shoe. You can't get that same shoe that they purchase like on January 1st. You come back in May and it's a completely, it's a same model number, but it's a different shoe altogether, and you can't get the one that they really liked. So that can be a frustrating point. And so, and they think, why I just got the same, I got a new shoe, still a 10 80, but they don't realize that that 10 80, they changed it up and now it's not the same. Maybe it's rolling more, it's, it's shaped differently or they accommodated something differently and so it's just doesn't do well with their body and it's creating issues for 'em. So sometimes it can be tricky trying to find the key cause of that plantar fascitis for patients.

Dr. Hudson (10:12):

So just on the topic of shoes, if a patient brought a pair of shoes into your office and wanted you to give your advice on, Hey, is this a good pair of shoes for me? What would you tell them? Or how would you evaluate that patient? I a pair of shoes?

Dr. Derek (10:27):

Yeah. Well, there's four things that I always tell a patient in regards to shoes. So what you want to do is you, like, for example, I just took my shoe off here. So when I push down here like this, it should bend more at the toe, at the, at the midsection of the toe box. Okay. Now, this is not the greatest shoe. It's bending more towards the middle. This isn't, you know, this shoe is a little bit worn. When I first got it, it seemed to bend more towards the toe. But you, you can look at that, the strength of that going this way. And this is more for like a, for like a tennis shoe or a court shoe that I'm referring to. It's harder, harder to find that with the dress shoe. But you can go like that, push it in.

(11:09):

The next thing you can do is twist it like this. And it should be somewhat firm. If it's like super flimsy, that's not gonna gonna give your feet the support that you need. Next, you want to turn it over and look at the bottom and see and make sure that it's flat so that it's got a flat bottom. It's not, you know, doing one of these numbers where it's curved in like this and making their foot like they're on roller sheets. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And lastly most important is you stand on your stand on one foot, close your eyes and see how you're balancing. You know, if you're all over the place, then that shoe's probably not gonna be giving you the balance and stability that you need. And so you need something that's gonna be giving you that kind of good with that shoe, with that shoe supporting your feet the way that it needs to be. And if you get a good supporting shoe that'll not only just help your feet, but it's gonna help your ankles, your knees, knees, your hips, your back and everything else up above. So it's really important that you get a good quality shoe.

Dr. Hudson (12:12):

And you can tell that right away. Right. I mean, when you evaluate a patient and, and the goal is for them to feel too. I mean, you should know right away if the shoe's a good fit or not. Right? Because Right. Yeah. They're gonna be strong, they're gonna be balanced and most importantly, they're gonna feel, they're gonna feel really good when walking and when Right. Performing on it. Right.

Dr. Derek (12:31):

We'll tell them to buy the shoe. Make sure before you talk to the shoe person that you know you're gonna go get it checked out by your chiropractor. So we'll have them buy the shoe, save the receipt, don't wear the shoe, just bring it to the office. We'll test them on it. There's a couple of different tests that we can do that in office that we do to test them, to make sure that the shoe's gonna be your right foot fit. But the orthotic that we make for them inside the shoe you can do that with or without the sole that's already in the shoe. Kind of depends. Test it out. If it's a fit, then grate. If it's not a fit, we have them go back to the shoe store, return that shoe, and get a different model or a different pair. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>,

Dr. Hudson (13:11):

That's gonna be now mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, what would you say to patients who get plantar fasciitis and then they want to get a pair of inserts, you know?

Dr. Derek (13:21):

Yeah. Well, inserts are huge. One of the biggest causes of plantar fasciitis in our opinion, is having arch, the arches in your feet compromised to some, some degree. Whether they're either over pronating or they're over supinated. So they're either gonna have a really flat feet, flat foot, or their arches can be even too high. That, that in itself can cause foot mechanic abnormalities that will increase the development of plantar fasciitis on somebody. So we have in both offices we have a three dimensional foot scanning capability that you can take a look at. All three arches in the feet. There's three arches in the feet. There's the medial longitudinal arch, the lateral longitudinal arch, and the anterior transverse arch. Trying to see if I have a picture of that handy here with me to show our listeners. Hmm. I don't, but

Dr. Derek (14:22):

You have the three arches there and we can see which arches are being collapsed based upon this foot scan. And then from there you can custom make an orthotic that will cut, that will support all three arches. And not only gonna be helping with the feet, but also spinal pelvic stabilizers that are gonna help the pelvis, the hips, and the lower back. Which is very important. Arm, arm, our orthotics are to help everything from the ground up. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So that's what I love about 'em. And the other thing I like about them is that they're a softer, flexible orthotic as opposed to a hard plastic. There's two philosophy camps in regards to orthotics. You can get the plastic hard orthotic or you can get one that's gonna be flexible and more moldable and accommodating to the foot. And I like that one, which is the one that we use just because it's more natural in the sense when it's plastic and hard. It's almost like a cast is on the foot and that's gonna put an extra strain on the ankle and the knees and the back as a result. So just a different philosophy. I mean, podiatrists had been using plastic orthotics for eons. And so I just like ours because they're flexible and they're more accommodating to the pelvis and hip along with it, but

Dr. Hudson (15:53):

Mm-Hmm. Yeah. You know, and, and with the orthotics it's like wrong pair of orthotics, number one, it's not gonna help the plantar fasciitis condition if you get it. So if you, if you have plantar fasciitis and you get a pair of orthotics and you don't notice any positive change whatsoever, then you should remove the orthotic immediately. Cuz you know, you have the risk of damaging the plantar fascia even more. And then, number one, if you start to develop plantar fasciitis and you're wearing a pair of orthotics, it's like you may wanna reevaluate those pair of orthotics that you're wearing because chances are it's not supporting your arches correctly. Right? Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Cause you do have, you do have three arches. You don't just have one on the in on the inside. Right. You know, and and you know, if you think about it, when the pla plantar fascia becomes painful, that usually means that it's really inflamed. You know? And if it's really inflamed, usually that means that there may be some micro tears going on or some sort or damage inside the, inside the plantar fascia. And so having a cast or orthotic or hard plastic one, I mean, you're setting up your plantar fasciitis, be plantar fascia become even more damaged. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So foot, foot shoes and, and orthotics are just extremely, extremely important.

Dr. Derek (17:12):

Yeah. It's really important. I, I've seen people that come in with you know, the plastic orthotics from the podiatrists and they have plantar fasciitis, and when they wear that, it does take strain off of the plantar fascia. It does bring a, a sort of relief to that area. I've, I've often seen that. So, you know, to give credit to the podiatrists that are out there, that it is it, I've seen it at beneficial for taking some of the strain off, but I'm looking at the whole picture here. Not just strain off of the foot, but then also making sure that that orthotic is gonna be designed to help balance out the lower back and pelvis. And you've seen it in your practice, I'm sure where somebody's coming in with pain in the bottom of the foot, but it's not necessarily coming from the foot. It's due to imbalances seen in the calf muscles, the gastroc anus, the soleus, even the quads, quadriceps or glutes or hips. Right. I mean everything above that can influence the, the feet problems in the hips can cause you to walk differently in the feet and vice versa. It goes both ways. And so that's why it's good to have something that's gonna help both the feet and the hips, in my opinion.

Dr. Hudson (18:32):

Mm-Hmm. Have you ever seen that with people who have had maybe hip replacements or knee replacements and they also developed plantar fasciitis afterward?

Dr. Derek (18:42):

Oh yeah. Absolutely. I just had a lady come in yesterday. She comes in, she had, she came in on mon three days ago. She came in three days ago. She had a lot of pain down the leg. And you know, in regards to it was causing sciatica, causing low back pain. And she says, I have I have stenosis. Are you able to help? And I told her right off the bat, look, if your stenosis is severe, then you know, you, you're just dealing with the physical restriction of that spinal cord on the canal. So, you know, I'm not, you're more likely to get benefits if you come in and your central canal stenosis is more mild to moderate. So I try to just, I just try to give her realistic picture that, look, don't, don't be super hopeful if you have bad stenosis and you're hoping for us to, to resolve this here for you.

(19:47):

And so she started you know, crying there at the, at the consultation saying, I, I, I don't want to go through a surgery, and this is, this is, so somebody referred her and another therapist referred her into her office and she was like, this was kind of like my last hope here. And so I just felt bad for her. And I said, okay, well let's do this. Let's put you on some therapy and let's just see how you respond. You know let's, that way there's no, you know, there's, let's try it. See what happens. So we did some therapy on her and like the next day she had, I mean, right after she was done with the therapy, she had significant relief. And two days later she called, said, I've had significant relief here the past two days. I wanna move forward and like, do any evaluation.

(20:35):

So we did our evaluation. Well, I found out that when we took the history of this we found out that all her symptoms started after the hip replacement surgery. Oh. She said, the doctor said, my hips are perfectly aligned. And so the hips might have been aligned, but you know, you're gonna have some biomechanical changes there. Even the slightest, even a millimeter change difference can start to cause aggravation to the back, which can cause sciatica, which can cause the plantar fasciitis and foot problems just because you're walking a little bit differently. So here's the thing, I told her, look, you responded well with some minimal therapy here, and it's been like that for two days. What if, cuz the severe spinal canal stenosis doesn't happen overnight. Right. That takes decades to, right.

(21:29):

Yeah. So here for decades, you just started having this, this symptoms a few months after you know, a few months ago after having the hip replacement surgery, prior to that surgery, you weren't having any of these issues. So what if we can get you balanced prior to the, was prior to the surgery. And so she came in, we did a full workup, we did all our therapies on her using the tailor method, night and day difference, huge change. She was, before, when she walked up the stairs, she had to take a step and then bring the other one up, take a step, bring the other one. She said after one treatment, she said she was able to walk normally. And that's what happens when you start to get the body balance. We just made some orthotics for her that are gonna have a three millimeter lift on that right side.

(22:14):

The doctor said it was perfectly even. But when you looked at the iliums, the ileum was a little bit off, the sacrum was tilted and the femur had heights. There were the, that was balanced, but the rest of the pelvis in relation was not balanced. And that's what we are as, as doctors of chiropractic. We're biomechanical experts. That's what our forte is. We, we weren't, we don't do surgery, we don't do injections. We don't know how to do that stuff, but we do know how to balance the body out. So when we balance that body out, we put a, we put a makeshift lift in there, temporarily try it out. And she noticed a huge shift. So I think we're gonna be able to get her to where she was and avoid, have her avoid the surgery altogether just because you're getting things balanced out. And the same would ring true if it were a case for plantar fasciitis. How many times have you seen somebody with plantar fasciitis and you had to work on the lower extremities or the pelvis, or they needed an adjustment or some of these other factors. It's not just the foot alone. You gotta look at it as a whole kinematic chain. When you do that, that makes the biggest difference.

Dr. Hudson (23:14):

Hmm. So would you say that some of the common imbalances of plantar fasciitis are maybe number one, the arches of the feet and then also the balance of the, of the, in the alignment of the knees and then the alignment of the hips too?

Dr. Derek (23:30):

Yeah, I think those are huge. Also, one thing that I haven't mentioned is just just their sh their shoes all together. Just Im people wearing the improper footwear. Right.

Dr. Hudson (23:39):

Improper footwear.

Dr. Derek (23:40):

Yeah. You know, they're wearing their shoes. What do you see, do you see people wearing their shoes too big or too tight in your practice?

Dr. Hudson (23:48):

Well, kind of, kind of, kind of, kind of both. But more mainly it's too tight.

Dr. Derek (23:53):

Yeah. They're, they're, they go to the shoe salesman. They says, okay, you're a size 10. And so they get a shoe that's a size 10.

Dr. Hudson (24:00):

Yeah.

Dr. Derek (24:00):

Or maybe, you know, and so, and for women, they don't wanna look like they have big feet, so they get shoes that are smaller to kind of cram their feet. It's almost like the ancient Chinese foot binding principle where they have, where their, their feet are crunched in there. That messes up all the proprio reception. All the proprio receptors are in the feet. All your balance centers are off. It, it crunches that and causes issues in there such as plantar fasciitis because their shoe wear is too tight. They're not, and it's not the right kind of shoe. And if they're working in a dress shoe or heels, and they're wearing that all day long, what happens when that heel is up? You know, what's that gonna do to the mechanics and to the stretching out of that plantar fasciitis? Oh,

Dr. Hudson (24:41):

Yeah.

Dr. Derek (24:41):

And then so their footwear, and they're, and they're wearing shoes that are putting stress not just on the feet, but the knees and the back and everything else. So wearing the right shoe.

Dr. Hudson (24:51):

Yeah.

Dr. Derek (24:52):

Critical, having their feet checked for their arches. You know, as we, as we age, a lot of times we have a, a an arch that starts to fall. That's like an acquired foot drop. Some people, it's a congenital foot drop. They just their feet are con congenitally flat. They were born that way and they just have flat feet. And, you know, having that, those orthotics in there, it can really make a difference. They may not have had a problem all their life, but now they're getting older. The tissues are starting breaking down. They've gained a little bit of weight. They're eat, they're cheating on their diet. They're not eating quite as well. And on top of that, they're exercising more. It's like a perfect storm to cause plantar bursitis. So if you can nip some of these things in the butt early on, you can really prevent it altogether and then resolve it.

Dr. Hudson (25:38):

So balance, so proper footwear and orthotics, balance out the hips, the pelvis, the feet, the arches, the knees as best as you can. And then, and then the second, the other thing I wanted to bring up was, okay, well what about in the formation of a heel spur? Right? patient comes in, they got an x-ray, and they see this big heel spur on the bottom of their heel. Right, right. And, and it's right where the, it's close really, you know, it's right where the pain is, so,

Dr. Derek (26:11):

Right. Yeah. Well, what happens is they're, their plantar fascia is too tight. Here's the calcaneus, the plantar fascia attaches onto that, and it's too tight. And so it pulls off the bone. The body in response lays down more calcium to protect that, that that plantar fascia from ripping off of the bone. And so lays down more calcium to protect it. And then what happens over time, you just have a development of a heel spur. And then when they walk, that heel spur jabs into the bottom of the, into the ground causing that pain. So a lot of times they'll go to podiatrist and they'll put like a donut pad in there to kind to absorb some of that shock and take some of that pressure off. But if you can use some technology to take pressure off of that area there, break that up in that area, and take the scar tissue off, get the right shoe and work on the other areas of the body to get it balanced out. Even with the heel spur, you can have, you can see pain be completely eliminated if you get that right and you treat it properly.

Dr. Hudson (27:12):

Yeah, yeah. You know I had a lady who had planet bursitis for multiple decades. And she had a history of you know, extensive weight training all her life and using her feet a lot. Well, she developed she heel spurs and in both feet worse on the right side. And a lot of arthritis in the, in the feet and a lot of scar tissue in the feet. And you know, once we were able to break through with the scar tissue, a lot of the inflammation was, was taken away, you know, and it made me kind of think, you talked about treating the lady with stenosis and your other plantar fasciitis patients. What are, what do you try to accomplish in your treatments for, for, for this And, and, and if someone were to come in with plantar fasciitis, what would you try to accomplish in your treatments for that?

Dr. Derek (28:02):

Well, you know, a lot of times, like I think of about a I've had, I had a lady that all she wanted to do is just be able to go for a walk with in the neighborhood with her husband. She missed that time. That was her exercise time. And that was her connecting time with her husband. So she was overweight, she was in her sixties. She had been dealing with this for years. And so we had to modify her diet. We had to work on those areas where the heel spur. We had to ba ba balance the body out with adjustments and treatment. And then she got on our plan, she lost 20 pounds easily over, you know, in about six weeks. And after six weeks of care, zero pain went from an eight to a zero in no time. And now she's out walking.

(28:49):

She was out walking with her husband again and she's getting her back, like life back to normal. So one of the first immediate short-term goals is just getting them out of pain where they can get up in the morning and stand up without any pain in their heels. That's one of the, you know, the first things or being able to go for their walk. So it all depends on what their goals are and what they're trying to accomplish, you know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> other people, they're running marathons or they're running five Ks or they're a triathlete, so they, it's a little bit more challenging. They have, they're constantly stressing. So you gotta look at the right shoe, you gotta get 'em the orthotic. You have to work intensively on breaking that up. But they can have success as well. And so it's just a matter of finding out what the cause is and a, a test addressing it. And your immediate short term goal is to get out of pain. But then the long term goal is then the moving to wellness, being at the ideal weight, eating the right foods, and staying pain free, just with a little easy upkeep and maintenance to keep things moving and heading in that right direction.

Dr. Hudson (29:51):

What would you say are two of the most common foods that co that can contribute to plantar fasciitis?

Dr. Derek (29:57):

Well, I would probably say a lot of these things, people have issues with dairy and gluten, you know, that's big. Too much sugar is another alcohol, sometimes coffee. So grains in general.

Dr. Hudson (30:14):

Soy too. Huh? Hot

Dr. Derek (30:15):

Food. What was that?

Dr. Hudson (30:17):

Soy you ever seen? Soy contribute?

Dr. Derek (30:18):

Yeah, soy is an, an issue, but, you know it kind of depends on the nationality there with that I mean, of there. So, but you're, it just all depends. That's why it's best to do like some food testing to figure out which foods are specifically causing that. And just asking them what are they eating in their diet that's sabotaging their health. And a lot of times it's, it's stuff they think is healthy for them. Mm. You know, I eat oatmeal every morning for breakfast. Well, I have fruit every morning for breakfast. Isn't that good? No. You know?

Dr. Hudson (30:55):

Right.

Dr. Derek (30:55):

A lot of sugar oats are that can be inflammatory for them. So, you know, it's the things that, that they need, they're eating that needs to be addressed. And it's easy just to test those things and get 'em on the right path.

Dr. Hudson (31:10):

Yeah. So what, when you say that to you know, you, you treat a patient or help to, to get, you know, you said the first step sometimes is just get, get the pain relieved, get them outta pain. Right. So, you know, what's the, what's the secret to getting someone out of pain with, with plantar fasciitis in your office? Yeah. As far as you know, like what's the, what's the principle behind getting someone out of pain? Is it like, you know, you know, decreasing the inflammation or, you know, increasing the blood flow? Or what would you say?

Dr. Derek (31:46):

I think the number one thing that a lot of people miss is just finding out what's causing it in the first place. So doing the proper examination and history and figuring out what caused it in the first place. What was it that brought them into the office? Or you gotta do your due diligence, finding out what that is and doing a thorough exam to figure out and pinpointing exactly where to work.

Dr. Hudson (32:05):

So

Dr. Derek (32:06):

A lot times if somebody will go to, they have plantar fasciitis, they'll see a doctor, they'll take a brief history and they'll immediately start working on the foot. Well, sometimes

Dr. Hudson (32:15):

You don't, they're not treating the right area,

Dr. Derek (32:16):

They're not treating the right area. And that's where the tailor method comes in to figure out, identify exactly where to work first to start taking some pressure off of that foot.

Dr. Hudson (32:25):

So what would you say to someone who look, you know, they've, they've tried it all or, you know, they, they tell, they come and tell you, look, I've tried it all. I've, you know, I have tried many different types of footwear and I've tried the orthotics and, you know I've gotten adjusted to get my hips lined and you know, I've tried all these things, you know, and at that point, what else, what else could be an another hidden cause of planet for size? Let's say that everything is balanced as good as possible, and they're wearing the right shoes and they're wearing the right orthotics, but they still have the pain and they're even eating the right foods. Are there any other hidden causes of plantar fasciitis that, that you address and that you see

Dr. Derek (33:12):

Well onto that two, there's two different things that you mentioned. A lot of times they say they've done everything and they tried it, but oftentimes they've done it on their own. They're, they're reading stuff on Google and the internet, they okay. Or they went to these different doctors and they're not specifically testing for the food, they're not doing the spec, they're not, they're n they're not using there's adjust. Getting adjustments is different from like getting adjusted Exactly. Where you need to be adjusted. Right. Having muscle work done is different than breaking up the scar tissue Exactly. Where, what's causing the pain in this particular area. Right. Okay. Okay. And so right off the bat first of all, if they say, I've tried everything and there's nothing that you can do to help, I, I'll probably say to them, yeah, well if you're, you're doubtful that this is gonna be helpful, then I don't really like to have, we don't like to treat people that come in where I'm trying to have to convince them.

(34:10):

They're already convinced in their, their mind, maybe their spouse, drug them in, Hey, when you're ready to, to let me, or let us do our work on you and do it the way that we would know how to get rid of this pain for you, then let us know. But when they're trying to fix it themselves at the same time that you are, I've often found that that's not been successful. You know, they're getting treatment at your office and they're trying this therapy and they're trying this here as well, which kind of undoes what we do. If we can just do our method of madness, of how we resolve these issues and take out and remove the layers of onions, of peels, of scar tissue that has developed over the decades and getting them on the right plan over time, they, they will see success.

(34:55):

They, you know, it may take time, but they gotta trust the process. But if they're not willing to do that, then they're probably not a good candidate for office. But let's say they are, then it's just a matter of getting them on the right adjustments, working on the right tissues, using the right technology and the right timing, and losing the weight at the same time, getting on the right eating plan, getting in the right shoes, in the right orthotic, even creating, customizing, making the orthotic. Sometimes that's a trial and error of getting them in the right pair as far as, you know, working these, those things out as far as maybe heel lifts or no heel lifts. And so it's a, it's a pretty, it can be a pretty complex issue because it's a complex condition sometimes. So mm-hmm. <Affirmative> say that. And then in regards to, they tried everything else and it's not, there's, there's some, you just gotta keep digging. There's some other hidden factor that's causing that, that has not been addressed yet.

Dr. Hudson (35:51):

And what would you say to a patient who, and this is on the topic of scar tissue, you know, let's say you have a patient who comes in and, and they know that they have scar tissue in their plantar fa fashion. They said, look, I've gotten massages on my feet, you know, I've gotten massages and in some cases doesn't, didn't help or made it worse, or it got temporary relief. You know, I've tried addressing the scar tissue, but what, you know, what would you, what advice would you give them on, on how to properly address scar tissue and how it may be contributing to plantar fascia?

Dr. Derek (36:23):

You always have to be working in the right area. Okay. The right scar tissue. So if you have, let's say here's your heel and the pain is right here. That pain is caused by a scar tissue someplace in the body that's super specific. So let's say it's over here in the cap, if you're, that's the area of the pain.

Dr. Hudson (36:42):

Yeah.

Dr. Derek (36:42):

Nine times outta 10 when they go to the practitioner, they're gonna be rubbing that area. If the area of pain, or our job is finding, using the tailor method to figure out exactly where that's coming from, in this case it may, let's say it's over here, or let's say it's over here. We work on this area, we found the id, we identify the area that needs to be addressed at number one and number two, using the right technology to, to clear that that may, okay. We have, we have a number of different technology that we use to resolve that. And it's just a matter of finding the right one with the right pulses or the right frequency or the right hurts that's gonna resolve that you, and the more specific you are, the better results you're gonna get.

Dr. Hudson (37:20):

Can you break up and permanently get rid of scar tissue?

Dr. Derek (37:23):

Yes. You can make huge changes. You permanent scar tissue break up is going to need technology. Okay. But understand, just because you, you make a huge shift and resolve that area, they can always be, unless you correct the overall biomechanical issue, they can be creating new scar tissue just with their daily activities of daily living or the exercises that they're doing. So you have to address those areas,

Dr. Hudson (37:49):

Put 'em on the right, put 'em on the right and yeah. And would you say that sometimes the problems they had is due is, or would, would you say that sometimes the, the plantar faciitis they've had is due to layers of scar tissue that are so deep and so thick that it's embedded in their, it's not just one

Dr. Derek (38:07):

Layer of scar tissue you're dealing with, but you're dealing with layers and layers. Cuz what happens, here's the, here's the normal tissue, you create the scar tissue. Right. It's not resolved properly and then it just, you keep re tearing it and then you just build up layers and layers. So you remove, got it, the first layer and their first visit, they're already feeling 20% better. But then you gotta get down to that bottom layer and keep it like that in order for that pain to go away altogether.

Dr. Hudson (38:29):

So sometimes you gotta, you have to take the scar tissue to the level of depth, a really deep level of treatment

Dr. Derek (38:35):

Sometimes. Right. It's just, yeah, it's the way it takes time. It takes time. Sometimes you can be fortunate and just remove a layer or two and that's enough, and it's to take the edge off and the pain is gone. But more times than not, then you have to really get down to the bottom layers to get longer lasting permanent type results.

Dr. Hudson (38:52):

Got it. And last question here for you, and maybe we can conclude on this. How long does it take to, for someone to get vast improvement or to become pain free with plantar fasciitis?

Dr. Derek (39:06):

A lot of times the longer that they've had the condition, the longer it takes to resolve. Right. so that's why early intervention's important. The soon as they start to feel that, the sooner they get in, the faster they're gonna get, faster results they're gonna get, the longer they wait, what happens? The more complex it becomes, the more compensations occur in the body and the longer it takes to resolve that. So it just all depends on how long they've had it. And the mistake that people make is they, they say those dangerous words maybe this thing will go away with time. You know, this thing will eventually go away and, and now it's been two, two months, three months, two years, three years still not going away. Hey, I gotta, but this, at that point, it's become so much more complex. It just takes, you can still get there. It's just gonna take sometimes longer. And it's, it's more intensive care to get to that place where they're at the place where they want to be.

Dr. Hudson (39:59):

Mm. Got it. Well, very good. Are there any other closing thoughts at all?

Dr. Derek (40:05):

No. No. I think the other thing is just drinking more water. People need to drink more water, I think is always important, but plantar fasciitis is a tough one. It's not always easy to resolve them. A lot of times it's because people just, they, they, they suffer with it for so long, they start to compensate and just becomes more ugly and more complex. But there is hope out there, there's a lot that can be done for it naturally without surgery.

Dr. Hudson (40:30):

Mm-Hmm. Got it. And the last thing, you know, I would say too is definitely check out, check out our book that we wrote on foot pain. There's a chapter in there on plantar fasciitis, and you know what, there's some pictures. It may help you understand kind of the anatomy behind it a little bit more. And, and the reason why these things happen. We hope that you enjoyed all the information today and Dr. Taylor's experiences on Kleiner fasciitis. I would just, I would also just say, look, just start, start start re researching these things and maybe taking some of the tips you learned today and start applying it now. By the time you, you go in to see Dr. Taylor or you know, whatever you do to get your plantar faciitis resolved, you're gonna have better chances for success if you're eating properly and hydrating. I would just say that too. Yeah. Start, start eating as well as you can and hydrate as well as you can. Start cleaning up the, the, the diet on the inside and that's gonna help your recovery a a lot.

Dr. Derek (41:30):

Right. And there's two offices of serve. If you're on the west coast, you can go to the Los Angeles Torrance office at or with Dr. Run by Dr. Hudson. And then for myself here in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. So either one would be great to see you. Give our office a call maybe if you're someplace and else where we can maybe point you in the right to direction. But it's been a fun show. Thanks for the interview and absolutely look forward to seeing you on the next one.

Dr. Hudson (41:53):

Absolutely. All right. Thank you so much and we'll talk soon.