Episode 038: Is There Hope for Costochondritis?

In this episode of the TAYLOR METHOD for Pain-Free Living podcast, Dr. Derek and Dr. Hudson dive into what they suspect are the root causes for the infamous and debilitating condition: Costochondritis. Both Doctors explain correlations between Costochondritis and other factors, such as hormone imbalance, lifestyle habits, past traumas and injuries, and more. They speak on some results they have had with Costochondritis and seek to bring hope for those suffering with this condition.

To connect with Dr. Taylor: drderektaylor.com















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The patients that have come in that have been treated conventionally with costochondritis have reported to us that it was very effective. You know, I want to share with share with you another finding that I'm seeing, right, I'm just calling it a finding. We've had people that are very fit, that have costochondritis is they've been doing sports and working out rigorously all their life, and they just develop more scar tissue. So Dr. Taylor, you know, is there hope for these patients? Welcome to the Taylor method for pain free living podcast. My name is Dr. Hudson Taylor. And we have Dr. Derek Taylor on the show today as well. Today we're going to be discussing three important topics regarding costochondritis. Right, so costochondritis, especially if you've ever had it or experienced it is is a very serious and debilitating condition. We're going to dive into a Dr. Derek Taylor. What is costochondritis? Well, costochondritis is inflammation of the cartilage here along the sternum where the ribs attached from the thoracic spine here to the sternum. And it's usually caused by some type of trauma to that area, it might be somebody there playing a And it can also come on insidiously, from just past sport and a ball or they had an impact here to the chest. I've accumulated traumas that is added accumulated in the body. And either way, those that trauma there, whether it is a seen it with patients come to the office and somebody gave them a big bear hug. I had think of a patient that came in and macro trauma, meaning like an injury that has occurred from the past, from a sports injury, or some other incident, or micro they had an adjustment that was a little bit too forceful. trauma, that's something that's just occurred to the activities of daily living over time, this this area becomes very inflamed, and it's very painful and debilitating the pain to not just be here in the chest. But it can also radiate to the back and along the ribs and along the sides and the flank. So it's it's pretty painful condition. Yeah, so going back to you know, what exactly it is. You mentioned a couple of words here, like the sternum, the cartilage in the ribs. So, you know, if you look at this model here, and you see the, you're looking at, or you have someone's chest, right? What exactly is becoming inflamed or, or painful? Yeah, well, it's right there, right where the ribs attached onto the sternum. So, so here, it's attached to the cartilage and the cartilage attached to the ribs. And so those areas and through there, it can be right where your finger is right there, or where it attaches onto the sternum. Okay, or anywhere along the pain can be felt anywhere, though, but it's usually like gonna be a inflammation and those areas in the front chest. So you have so you have the ribs here that run along, and then it starts to become cartilage, right? Yes. And then that cartilage attaches to the sternum. Right? the breastbone or the the middle of the chest. So, you're saying that sometimes the patient can have pain, where the where the rib bone attaches to the beginning of the cartilage here, and times they can have pain along that and then even where the cartilage attaches to the sternum. That's true. Okay, yeah, it can be long anywhere. There's anywhere where the ribs from where it's mostly going to be in the front, but we've seen it refer and radiate pain up to the side, where the flanks are, where even where the rib is, apart from the cartilage. And also that grows around the back because in between those ribs there, you have intercostal muscles that can develop scar tissue and be an exacerbating condition to costochondritis. Okay, guys, so in between the rib muscles, there's, there's muscles right? In between those correct intercostal muscles. So those are called inter in between the ribs costal muscles, right? So, um, so those areas can become painful as well. Right? Correct. It seems like patients who have this condition like it can become so painful that sometimes they go to the emergency room right. Have you seen that? Right? Yeah, they think they're having a heart attack. It's on the left side of the body. Yeah, can mimic can be so painful and so sharp and, and it since it's affecting the ribs, and it's affecting those intercostal muscles, it can affect their breathing, it can affect their, you know, it can mimic symptoms of a heart attack. And so they're scared. So they'll go to the emergency room. And that's where they're often first diagnosed. Because they'll run a bunch of a battery of tests, and they'll determine now this is not coming from your heart, your heart looks good. This is we are going to look at this as costochondritis. And so but the challenging part for that is the treatments, we've the patients that have come in that have had been that have been treated conventionally with costochondritis have reported to us that it was very ineffective, whether it's steroid injections, or or medications that they're given. There's really no other treatment that they give, because, you know, it's a very delicate area. And it's pretty complicated, it can be pretty complicated. And one of the biggest reasons why it's not resolved is because it's just, it's that those areas, they're laden with scarred adhesive scar tissue, that has not been addressed or discovered, that's causing those imbalances in pain. And so they can get all the injections they want, and they can get take all the medications they want. But until you address that scar tissue and relieve that and alleviate it. That's not going to resolve. Yeah, so yeah, so I'm sorry. Go ahead. So, so there's right off the bat, there's, there's three, three tissues that are involved in the inflammation. costochondritis, right. So there's the there's the rib bone itself, that can be inflamed, there's the cartilage itself, the breastbone, right, so the bones and cartilage, and then even the muscles in between, right. All right, so the right tenant right off the bat, there's multiple things that are involved here. Which is why, you know, when when, when they retrieved at the emergency room, it can, that's why it probably can be tough to pinpoint the exact right treatment, because it's already a complex issue right off the bat, right. And then you're using cartilage and bone, you're also talking about the joint where the bones and the cartilage meet in the joint, little dead junction there where those two meet cartilage and bone that is often inflamed and problematic, but that's usually secondary to the scar tissue that is in those areas. So, you know, before we dive into scar tissue, a lot of times to have you seen patients who have costochondritis will also start to develop shoulder pain, or even elbow pain or neck pain, back pain, it is it seems to spread, right. It's all well. Not sure if that's if it that's spreading or if that is what is a contributing factor that led to the costochondritis in the first place. Okay. Okay. So oftentimes, when we have people come in, and costochondritis, one of the first places we're working is actually the back muscles in the back. Because everything's connected and everything, every part of the body influences the other parts of the body. And so you have dyskinesia and the scapula there, you have a scapula that's not working properly, it's not moving properly, and you have 21 different muscles that connect to that scapula that that shoulder bone there. And if that is not functioning properly, that's going to be pulling on those tissues and those structures in the front contributing a lot to the costochondritis. And so oftentimes, okay, we're doing a lot of work to the Para spinals rhomboids, or the rotator cuff muscles, although they're in the back, as well as the neck and shoulder, you know, I had a patient who he's in his 20s now, but when he was in middle school, he got he was his friends and, you know, him were all were monkeying around in the locker room and one of his friends pulled the shoulder too hard, and the shoulder dislocated, and then he got the shoulder relocated, but then after that, he started to develop pain in the ribs and it led to chronic costochondritis that he had for years. So it actually the pace costochondritis all began after a shoulder injury. Right. And then you mentioned that also the back is involved, the shoulder blade that goes along the ribcage is involved the neck, etc. So, you know, like you said sometimes costochondritis the pain in the chest can come from areas that are that are totally that are next to the chest but not necessarily right right on it like shoulder to back fix right. And so you have this this dysfunctional joints there, whether it's the shoulder or the neck or the back or the the front chest area, and this areas, they're not remediated, they're not resolved. And it just perpetuates a lot of times they They'll tell people when they go to the emergency room, oh, this thing should resolve in a week or two. We've seen people with costochondritis for years. Cause root cause number one, you mentioned old injuries and traumas that can even be outside of the chest, shoulder traumas shoulder blade traumas, back traumas, you know, accidents, falls, slips and falls, right? That's root, that's one of the root causes in old trauma that may not seem to be related, but it is it is. And then number two, you mentioned, what's something called adhesive scar tissue, right? So what what it is what's really what exactly is that? And and how does that cause inflammation of the ribcage and the cartilage? Well, adhesive scar tissue is your muscles and it the soft tissues are formed with like, fibers that align up parallel to each other, and you'll have a trauma, and they'll separate and the body sends blood to that area, that's what causes inflammation, but within that blood, you have little cells called fibroblasts, that just those fibers are separated. So these fibroblasts come in and just lay out all this collagen everywhere to and fibrous tissue to, to men that, that that tissue, and then what happens instead of realigning, like this, it is just going to be a conglomeration of tissue. And it's like, that area, that tissues becomes less elastic, it pulls on the surrounding joints that it's connected to, and that tissue being shortened causes the dysfunction and the lack of that body and ability, the ability to work properly. And so that will perpetuate inflammation in those areas and, and cause pain. So you got to break that up. So it's like a tangled up would not have just tissue fibrous tissue. It's like a Yeah, it's like it's like, you know, yeah, it's like, you know, your muscles should be like filet mignon. This is like becomes like chuck steak. Okay, this is like a $6.99 and pound. It's just like, it's fibrous, just like gristle. And all of that creates a lot of imbalances. And you have to address that area, you have to correct that. We've seen people there's, they've purchased like the back that so many of the patients that go on that pod, they buy the back pod, and they're laying on that, but I've never seen that resolved. Somebody's causing a dryness, maybe it maybe it's been helping some people and yeah, no, definitely to see us. But I doubt you know, they're laying on that to try to open that up. And whether it's exercises, you're laying on a back pod or injections, if you're not adjusting the scar tissue. It's not going to resolve the problem. And you know, quick we're gonna on the backboard. Know, it seems like there's always been some sort of relief or improvement, maybe yes, maybe not. Right? It's kind of helped it, but it's not going to help someone if the root cause of their costochondritis is coming from, you know, a shoulder, right, or really deep, deeply embedded scar tissue in the ribcage that that a massage ball or a foam roller or a back pod can't necessarily get to because it's so deep, right? Right. Yeah, well, back pod is not designed to break up scar tissue. It's just designed to take pressure off, right? So open up that open up that area. And it's because it's like this and it's pulling. And so but it's it's all the patients that have have come to see me that have gotten it they none of them have ever told me that it it brought even brought any type of relief. So but I you know, that's that I'm just speaking from what patients have told me that have come to see us maybe there's some that have benefited from that, but none that we've seen. Right? So you have the old injury and the old accident that was never addressed the scar tissue that tangled up Chuck sick, can can happen and then that scar tissue can start to pull, pull in, throw up, pull on other areas like the chest that can start to cause a stream of inflammation. Right, that can creep into the chest right it all it's all interconnected. Yeah. And the talent, why? Why is prolonged twos because all your all the breathing muscles are attached to that. So you're constantly breathing, right? You're inhaling exhaling. You have lungs, lung tissue underneath that. And so that kind of perpetuates the issue and their breathing becomes more shallow. Yeah, which affects the rhythm of their breath and, and so it can be pretty get complicated by the time people come to get in and see us. And Dr. Taylor, you know, you think about the intercostal nerves are the little nerves that come out of the spine, right? Those those nerves wrap all the way around, and they go into the chest too, right? Right. Yeah. And those nerves get trapped in that scar tissue trapped. Yeah, it's those subcutaneous nerves, they get trapped in that scar tissue, just like in a mesh. And they're constantly irritated. They're constantly there's, there's constant interference, which creates issues for them. And this is a big problem for patients. So another another root cause is the nerve entrapment from the scar tissue, the nerves that are getting squashed by the by the tissue, right? You know, I want to share with share with you another finding that I'm seeing, right, I'm just calling it a finding. It's a finding that I've seen over and over in patients with costochondritis. And I noticed this, a lot of the male clients who have costochondritis also have, I've seen this called gynecomastia, right, which is, which is the formation of like, breast tissue, almost like in the in the males? Were the, the areas. Now. I've noticed that over and over again. And it's just I couldn't help but but tie the two together. Right? What's let me ask you, what is that, that gynecomastia or the the breast formation? And then in the male? What's that a sign of? Well, there's a lot of different reasons for them. But one of the most common ones is just estrogen dominance. Estrogen dominance, yeah, their estrogen dominant, they're eating foods that have been laden with hormones, known as child's mouth, and cheese, or hormones injected in the US, you know, conventional beef and chicken. And these hormones are designed to make the animal fatter, so they get more meat, and they can be more profitable, but those are passed on into the, into our as humans, and then it'll create estrogen dominance. And so with that estrogen hormone increase, you'll see breasts start to develop with male and then that additional weight on the chest also pulls on those red muscles. And so one of the signs of estrogen dominance is that men will have these men and women, they'll have those little, little red dots on their chest, are there different parts of their body, these little red dots are a sign that they're in estrogen dominance. And so that that creates an issue for them. And their their hormones are out of balance. And yeah, that's a really good observation that you've made. I've really never thought of that. So that our balance, thank you this. So that hormone imbalance in the males looks like the gynecomastia, but then also, how is the quality of their muscles? Right? Yeah. And there's tissue, right? Like, how is it? Is it normal? Or is it easily more inflamed? Right? I think what would you say? I think it's going to be a little in a little bit in a weakened state, and they're going to it's going to be insincere and more susceptible for tears and more susceptible for problems, and just the inflammation that just does not go away. Right. I mean, it's all that's a really good observation that you made. I really never thought of that. So that was our balance. Thank you. So that hormone imbalance in the males looks like the gynecomastia, but then also, how is the quality of their muscles? Right? Yeah. And their tissue, right? Like, how is it? Is it normal? Or is it easily more inflamed? Right, I think what would you say? I think it's going to be a little a little bit of in a weakened state, and they're going to it's going to be in safer and more susceptible for tears and more susceptible for problems in just the inflammation that just does not go away. Right. I mean, it's all it's all all works together, the healthier summer, the poor or the health of someone that comes in, and if they have costochondritis, the longer and the more prolonged it becomes, get on the con on the flip side of that you have we've had people that are very fit that have costochondritis and that fitness is their bodies very fit and they take good care of themselves. Challenging part with those people is they've been doing sports and working out rigorously all their life and they just develop more scar tissue because they're working out their scar tissue is is developed when they're near breaking down muscle this so they're working out that's one way of breaking down muscle and developing scars on the muscle grows and gets larger. So they start to They've been they have a lifestyle of fitness and working out for decades. And then this is just they never get any scar tissue work, whether that's being maintained or looked at or kept at check. And so now they have some type of trauma, or some type of incident that sets them off. And they can't get out of that. That storm. Yeah, yeah. So So in those cases, what would you say that, that the cause of their costochondritis is primarily it's more of a scar tissue physical aspect, where they're healthy, they're fit, they're eating well, but you know, they just got a lot of unresolved tension that just builds absolutely sure. But then what happens when you have a person that, you know, you know, just more of a normal person that doesn't train a lot, and they're just, you know, maybe they play video games a lot, or, or they have a desk job, right? They don't exercise all the time, but then, you know, they get their chest bumped. And next thing, you know, they have costochondritis for the next two years, right? Well, everything they're doing is in front, right. So their shoulders are rolled forward, everything tightens up. And they're, you know, they're doing this all day long. And so everything's gets tightened them now. And they they create a bump. Now this hot, that tissue has already shortened, or national rate scar tissue in there, now you just shortened it even more. So it's like adding fuel to the fire is pouring, like gasoline on broke the camel's back. Right. Right. And then then they're constantly they still stay in that state, and then they can't get out of that there. So yeah, it's it can. And this is, this is another factor. Here's another thing I noticed too, with some of the feet more female, the female patients, three patients that are female recently, one of them just just got pregnant, right? She just got pregnant, she was also eating a lot of soy, too. And soy, the second one started after the her cost of Android has started. And, and it just so happened that she just started doing soy protein shakes for the past two weeks. Right, that I had another lady where, you know, she works at our work at Starbucks eating a lot of foods from from Starbucks, that she chose that were just not healthy. And then also, you know, I'm sure a lot of those foods were were laced with a lot of those inflammatory compounds and chemicals. So, you know, soy is a major driver of like toxic estrogen levels, right? A lot of soy is genetically modified. Right? All right. So that's just a common thing that we know, they've noticed that just goes back to just inflammatory foods in general, you know, like, whether it's gluten or dairy or sugar or something processed, that food if their body is sensitive to it, that's going to create even more inflammation at the joint level, or in those areas and exacerbate the problem. So diving into the treatment aspect of costochondritis. I would I want to ask you a question here. I want to I also want to say that, look, you have to if there's any of those components in your, in your lifestyle, with the food in the diet, the the the inflammatory things like soy, sugar, dairy, gluten, etc, you have to consider making a significant change to your diet, in conjunction with any treatments that you get, right? You're gonna get better results like that. You may you may not have to, right, but you're gonna get better results if you start cleaning that stuff up. Right, right. And I wanted to ask you, you know, what's, what's a proper treatment for costochondritis? Well, you gotta, first you gotta identify where the imbalances are in looking primarily a lot at that adhesive scar tissue. And so we use our tailor method evaluation to figure out exactly where that is and where it's coming from. And we start to go after it as far as breaking up the scar tissue using various forms of modalities and technology to break it up. And when you do that, you can see instantaneous improvement and relief, even from the first visit and is in, you know, they finally have a sense a ray of hope. But what happens is, it feels good when they're out to visit. But when they leave, then the pain comes back to a degree not as bad, but it's still there because there's layers of adhesions. Later, this is taken, you know, the compensation patterns that have developed over time have gotten ingrained in the body which has made it more ingrained in there to and more difficult to relieve the scar tissue. And the other thing is people that come to see us that have a cost of control. as if they had come when they, when they first started experiencing the pain, you could cut down the treatment frequency and and time relieving it in half, we often see people that have come, they've been waiting for weeks, months, years. And at this point is become so complex that it takes time to, to resolve we've seen costochondritis resolved, anywhere between six to 36 visits are even more, sometimes it's less mmm, you can if they get catch it early enough, and it's not as complicated. You can resolve it in a visit or two, but everybody's different, right. And every Monday comes with a different degree of, of stressors that have been affecting the body and, and you just have to go after that. And once at seats of scar tissue has been addressed, you also need to get the joints aligned with adjustments. But you have to be really careful when you're adjusting costochondritis because one wrong move, you can exacerbate it and make it worse. So and this is what I this is what can happen if somebody has they have costochondritis and they get adjusted an area and it's too forceful or it's the wrong wrong level or the wrong specificity and reducing that subluxation. We've seen things get exacerbated with that. So you have to, you have to treat that very carefully. And you have to be really specific on where you're adjusting not just in the spine, but in the clavicle, the shoulders, the back the neck, you have to look at the whole the body as a whole. How many times people they're having that pain in the chest, but a lot of the costochondritis issue has been has been coming from scar tissue just in the very back. But yeah, in how many times doc killer I mean, we're both chiropractors, how many times have you seen patients who've gotten adjusted, adjusted, but and it made it worse or just didn't get better? Right? Well, or just what may have caused it in the first place if it was in the first place too much force. And so and then there's, you combine that with, you know, people holding a lot of their emotional and mental tension and stress in that chest area, you combine that with an adjustment the wrong time, or in the wrong way, and that can perpetuate and exacerbate the area? For sure. So Dr. Taylor, you know, is there a hope for these patients is all Absolutely, yes. Yeah, we've seen incredible results, and tremendous relief and resolution with people that have been able to knock out the scar tissue and get down to the whole bottom layer the scar tissue and getting everything corrected. And then you start working with them with exercises that are going to be specific. And some people say, hey, what exercise can you give me, we, you know, there's one good exercise that we recommend for general sense where you're lying on your back and you're doing this lying in your it's on our, our YouTube video for costochondritis, you just put that in, there's a good, there's a good video that shows you how to do that. But because it's opening everything up. But really, you have to do an exercise program that's custom made, because it depends on where the scar tissue is that's causing the problem that you need to address and strengthening those areas that are weak and right, I think out the areas that are tight and problematic. So you have to be really specific, there's not one catch all, just do these exercises, and that'll resolve it. Right. Right. Right. So figure out the unique problem what's going on for that unique person and then get to get get on the right treatment plan that is specially designed just for you and what's going on with you. And then also just looking at their diet. I mean, they're eating inflammatory foods, you have to do some testing to find out which foods are creating the inflammation in that area and these need to start getting off of that and if they start to do that, you know, we've seen for people that continue in all of the recommendations and get all the care that they need. We've seen up to over a 90% success rate with resolving and everybody even from the first treatment I've never had somebody that didn't respond at least positive positively the first time I've you know, no, yeah, they they're excited and they feel they feel the difference. Yeah, it makes a big difference. Darren Taylor you know, you put up a really good video on YouTube with a with a really good explanation of this as well. Did you create a video did you create a video recently with Cost of Goods right? Yes, I did. I would encourage you to go to die. Dr. Derek Taylor DC subscribe to our YouTube page. Watch Dr. Derek Taylor's video on his explanation, some tips that you can even try at home. No, because we're getting messages from people in different countries, right? Different states. So you may be able to come to the offices, but our tailors in Florida, I'm in Torrance, right. But subscribe to the YouTube page, watch Dr. Joe's video on that. And then watch the testimonial on one of the most severe cases we've ever seen of costochondritis and how he got better, and then watch the example of the treatment. That's that's done until you can you can see that on YouTube. And that may help you. Yeah, so we have a if you're on the East Coast, and we have our office in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, if you're on the West Coast, Torrance, California, and, you know, just, we're here. I mean, there's we, we we've, it's it's such a unique conditions, why we're talking about it, but I, I have yet to find something that that is more effective for reducing the effects of costochondritis. And breaking up that he says scar tissue, specifically where those issues are, and have you have you come across anything? That's no, you know, factor for that. Right. And then just just getting just working on getting that inflammation out of there. Right. So, anyway, Dr. Doug Taylor, any closing thoughts at all before we sign off here? Just there's hope. There's auto people they come in, they're at their wit's end, some people have been. It's been extremely debilitating and depressing for them suffering with this without any answers, but there is hope and it can be resolved. That's absolutely, absolutely. Well, thank you, Doc Taylor, for your time. Thank you so much, everyone for listening. We really hope this this information helps you out. And don't hesitate to reach out for additional. Just just help during this time. So thank you very much. This is Dr. Hudson Taylor and Dr. Derek Taylor. Signing off. Have a great day.