Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Mike Howard talking ....
Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Episode 37: Reboot, With Brian Upton, And The Healing Power of Voices
What happens when a podcast becomes your lifeline out of depression and into resilience? Join us as I sit down with my producer, Brian Upton, to recount a transformative year where the humble microphone served as a powerful tool for self-discovery and community connection. Through our dialogue, we reveal the peculiar yet profound impact of podcasting on mental health and the importance of being truly heard, while exploring the vibrant charm of Santa Cruz—a place where burdens are left behind, and healing begins.
Santa Cruz isn't just a backdrop; it's a vibrant community that shapes our stories and feeds our conversations. We dive into the heart of empathy and the potential each person holds to make a difference by simply listening. Drawing insights from roles like therapists and pastors, we discuss the double-edged sword of social media, where genuine connections are as rare as they are valuable. Through these exchanges, we find beauty in the present and cherish the powerful connections forged amidst a whirlwind of information.
Spanning topics from the evolution of gossip to the future of podcasting, this episode is a tapestry of personal growth and community engagement. We explore the idea of leaving a digital legacy and how recorded conversations could immortalize our stories for generations. As I embark on new creative ventures, like a comic strip and the expansion of Santa Cruz Vibes Media, we celebrate the resilience required to innovate in challenging times. Each episode is a testament to the remarkable individuals we engage with, highlighting the richness and diversity of human connection.
I know you got it on. It was a year ago last time we sat down with microphones in front of us. I was complaining about what a shitty surfer I was now. I've become much more professional welcome to the unpacked and naked podcast. I almost said it, packed and naked. Yeah, sitting here with Brian Upton. It's our annual. I see you more than I see my doctor now, brian.
Speaker 2:We saw each other every week for about 16 weeks.
Speaker 1:And then, all of a sudden, I got cut off. Like what'd you do to me?
Speaker 2:You know it's been a long year.
Speaker 1:How long do you run this? What do we do now? Oh, you can run as long as you want.
Speaker 2:I'll put it softly, in the background, romantically, for a little bit, while you say what the hell we're doing here.
Speaker 1:I totally appreciate that. I turn it off on my end. All right, here we are people. I'm sitting with my podcast producer, mr Brian Upton. That's right, are you?
Speaker 2:the editor. Publisher, publisher, editor, producer, writer. Santa Claus editor. Publisher, editor, producer, writer. Today 300 case box unloader into the warehouse guy. Accounts payable, accounts receivable. Yes, there's more, but I'm losing it right now it's late. Proofreader. It's late. Landscaper mower edger. I picked up about 400 pounds of mushrooms from a property and left them in my truck too long. And mushrooms after four weeks and a vacation. Let me put it this way they're not mushrooms anymore.
Speaker 1:They're different mushrooms.
Speaker 2:It's compost. So I came back from Denver with a big pile of shit in the back of my truck.
Speaker 1:I like it. Yeah, that's what it goes. It goes from shit to mushroom, back to shit.
Speaker 2:I think mushrooms were growing up. I think that's what humans ate and that's where they gained consciousness. I think it happened in the back of my, my GMC.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, it's happening for the dogs that that that invested in the moment. It's gotten weird already. Yeah, of weird time, brian what are we doing?
Speaker 1:we are talking like we always do, but, but talking about the big shift and uh, uh, I wanted to reconnect with you and, and and just share some fun news for me because of you that that, uh, we have been able to partner with your magazine, santa cruz vibes. Yep, and uh, I'm very excited to do that with you and really talk about a shift in what we're doing with my podcast specifically, and who knows where that will go. There will be more shifts in the future, but really excited for the year as it's starting to pop up here and I got about 20 people on the line and, you know, just filling those gaps in. But what I really want to do today, because of the importance that you've been to my life the last two years and my journey is really close the loop on the story and really, you know, I've had some questions out there, you know about how are you doing? Like, what's really going on.
Speaker 1:I've been very silent this year, even though I've had a bunch of interviews, but I've come to this really interesting realization that, as you confronted me the first podcast, why are you doing this? And realizing I just needed therapy and apparently I needed a microphone in front of me to do it. Apparently, I needed a microphone in front of me to do it. Yeah, over the course of the last two years, with all the interviews that I've done, you know, the recurring theme has been that the people that have sat with me. It has been as cathartic for them, right, as it has been for me, and you know. You know this personally because I've shared this with you and I've glanced on it a little bit. But I'm having to recalibrate with the fact that I don't have depression anymore and I'm learning how to be a new human. Yep, and that's a very strange thing to wake up in a good mood every day. My outlook has changed dramatically and I've wanted to look back on all the other podcasts and just delete them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an instinct, it definitely is.
Speaker 1:It's, it's pretty weird and what I really realized is that I need to close the loop of that story and and you know, in all honesty, you know I didn't know what I was doing, I just know I needed to talk about it Stream of consciousness.
Speaker 2:It really was yeah, and so it really was yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so you know, for me, you know, I realized that my story really doesn't matter. You know, it matters to me yeah you know, and it is important to me. But what I've come to realize is that I am what's important right and the people that I choose to be around and choose to be with. That's what's important. Also, it's the us part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That really really has been the big takeaway and really has been the reason for my silence is that you know whatever it is imposter syndrome. You know just me working something out that the reality is is that I have a feeling that I think most people feel and that they're just not being heard yeah, that's, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a common theme yeah, and so you know, realizing that, really realizing the weird therapeutic value it is for someone to sit in front of a microphone and somehow, because of that, you can have an intimate conversation, which is really weird, because microphones are weird, I don't know why. Yeah, recording's weird, it's all you know. It was certainly always. The biggest fear in pastoring is that you're you got a recorder in the back. Yeah for sure you better be right. Yeah, you know. Yeah, cause it's there for you know, yeah. Perpetuity.
Speaker 2:And there's no rewind button. Well, you know, theoretically this isn't live. Live, but it's. We've never edited it. No, no, nothing edited.
Speaker 1:No, and you know I did the quick little journey of kind of listening to the first one, yeah, Realizing I got all the scriptures wrong. You know all that stuff Like just the reality of the friction.
Speaker 2:Don't we play Bible roulette.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, of the friction, don't we play Bible roulette.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It feels like five years ago.
Speaker 1:It sounded right and everybody thought I was right. I'm like no, I was wrong about every single one of those answers.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great, James Earl Jones. We were doing James.
Speaker 1:Earl.
Speaker 2:Jones, that is. That is some classic unpacked and naked right there and I and I and I that feels like season one, just to be wrong all the time, and I feel like we're going back to like now. I haven't thought about in that context that we had a little format. We were trying, we didn't know, you know, I didn't know, I knew I didn't know you well enough. I knew you well enough from a cup of coffee and I knew we're going to talk about heavy shit and I knew I just created a couple I don't remember icebreakers. I know I had two different icebreakers we had. We had Bible Roulette and one other one where we did something else to kind of like have fun with it. But it seemed like these little 18 or 20-minute marks to just in case it was getting fucking weird.
Speaker 2:I figured I could just play a little funny sound in Bible Roulette.
Speaker 1:What was episode five, where I'm like time out?
Speaker 2:no more Bible Roulette. No more Bible Roulette.
Speaker 1:I'm already going gonna get murdered for being wrong, but what you were talking about.
Speaker 2:There is, I think it's um, you know, that's the the, the thing about this format and this could be, this could be. It's so close to therapy, um, where, because of that red light, because of we're two feet away from each other and we're talking, there's, there's a permission and there's some sense of security. It's not real, but there's a tremendous sense of security here. Like this isn't happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's a privacy to it and it's the most fucking public thing you're ever going to do.
Speaker 1:It's so weird. It is weird and you know this like everybody that leaves. It's like, oh my God, I sound stupid. And like they're totally afraid when they don't like sound of my voice. Yeah, all of it, and then when? They go and listen. They're moment that happens at the end of these things.
Speaker 2:And people still aren't being totally honest.
Speaker 1:No, no, and this is one of the things that I really realized. You know, feeling this need to get my story out in the first place, realizing that it wasn't that I was dishonest with you, it's just the reality is the details don't matter, you know, what matters is the integrity of the human being. That's it. You know when it's is the integrity of the human being, that's it. You know when it's done and whether there's wisdom from the experience. Yeah, and you know, going back and listening, you know there's some cringe moments for me, not not so much about what I shared, but like just feeling this agenda to have to be heard. You know about this thing that I felt that happened to me and you know, again, for me it was like publicly working out my fourth step.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and it had all the tenets of it, because I think the thing about it is you were being completely honest with your words, but for episode after episode, it was very hard to nail down. What's the name of this church? What are we talking about here? It was fascinating from my seat and probably a tiny bit torturous for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the people are more important than my story. Totally.
Speaker 1:And that you know that reality that, no, like I hold hearts like that's way more important than me trying to fix something that is just broken. Right, you know that isn't going to be fixed by my words. You know it just isn't going to be that thing. It just isn't going to be that thing. And it's not that I will be less serious or that my future conversations that I get to have with people and all of that is not going to be staying in tune to who I am as a person. It's just that we're all guarded Right.
Speaker 2:You know that there's just a reality to how we hold things to how we hold things and if you were going to stay in that pocket also. You know, my honesty comes from my practical experience my relationship with Stacy, my business failings, my business successes, my individual friendship. All of my honesty is honest. And um, uh, none of those things I just talked about came with any kind of a perceived trust and or privacy like you had in your position with the people you might be talking about. It's a weird thing because you want to talk about it openly, but you also had sort of this contract with people that the things that you're working through were held in high regard. As far as confidence, that's different. You can't go all the way there because that's your word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1:And you know it's, it's really been a strange end of the year and, and as I've had to sort out this thing, that that really how I feel is how people feel right now, and that is not heard, not seen, and just the privilege of sitting with people and hearing them and seeing them is the privilege of these moments, and whoever listens it doesn't matter. But you know, but it's weird. I was just telling Brian before we launched, you know I'm here life coaching again.
Speaker 2:Do it. Who? No, no, you, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, who? No, no, you oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, before we went, yeah, we went hot on the mic. Yeah, oh, I might right back in the space. Yeah, you know, and I realized that the integrity and the wisdom that was garnered from all the experience still matters totally. The questions that I'm still getting from people are all like hey, will you talk a little bit more about marriage? That one with stacy was really good. Yeah, I'd like to hear more about that.
Speaker 1:You know that, that these are real things, and we have a whole generation of people that have been over-psychologized and not given any practical wisdom. And I'm not. I'm not the shrink, I'm the guy who's been married 33 years, yeah, and eventually we're all just that guy, that girl.
Speaker 2:we all have this practical experience. Sometimes we have titles, sometimes we have privilege, sometimes we um, none of that gives you any more standing to have an intimate human connection with somebody If your eyes are open and your consciousness is open and your heart's open and you can be transparent and real. Um, I don't need a doctorate, I don't need to be a pastor, I don't need cause. There's nothing. When you look at those, the tenets of that, you know a lot of that pathway. There's clinical, there's sort of like time that passes, but there's not really a. You know you pass this exam. You have proven yourself worthy to help another human. Have proven yourself worthy to help another human.
Speaker 2:Everybody's got that qualification. If they listen, if they kind of engage, if they basically have empathy, everybody can be a therapist. Everybody can be in my mind. This is where I kind of break off. Everybody can be in, in, in. If you a lot of people feel comfort in a title, you know whether it be a pastor, whether it be a therapist, whatever it may be, but it's also around you all the time if you can have your eyes open a little bit, yeah, and that really, I mean you were putting towards what I dedicated my life to, right?
Speaker 1:You know, when we talk about ministry we think about pulpits. Yeah, that isn't really what happens. That's 45 minutes once a week. There's two hours of preparation for that. I guess if you want to make it really cool and make it really concise, then you're spending the eight hours. It takes a week to get your great speech out, so you're not looking at your notes or whatever about a book that we barely understand.
Speaker 2:Pulpit's no different than social media, and I mean that this way, that the social media game is opportunities. We call them impressions, that's vibes. That's a lot of what we do is vibes through the newsletter, through the magazine, through the website, through all that we do creates impressions, and so we've got it. You know, because of our relationships with Metro and all these, the, the, a lot of people ask um, we can generate 900 something thousand impressions with all of our media company and that's in total Um. And then what we're really looking for, that the whole business model, is engagements.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's the same thing as you standing up in front for 45 minutes once a week. It's only impressions. There's 150 impressions out there. It's dick, it doesn't mean anything. What you're looking for is to say words, to create an engagement, and an engagement is you know, the real world we live in is that you know. We know the exact numbers and it's very unfortunate 900,000 impressions creates probably anywhere between it with our style of content creates 40 to 50%. You know basically, um uh, uh, the we're still not to an engagement. Basically, an impression is basically creates a contact Now that's it's called. 400, 300,000 pass through more than an impression. Of that, only two and a half to 5% are going to engage and that's probably very similar to what you did on a Sunday. If it was Sunday, I don't even know if you fucking did it Sunday.
Speaker 1:We did. It did a lot of different days, different ways, but you know to your point. You know, with these kinds of ratios, which is how my brain works, is that you know we're in an an overly sensational moment where so much data is coming at people that again, living in the irony of the moment that the engaging thing is sitting down with someone with a microphone in front of you.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then and you know that that conversation we had last year really sat with me it's like, wow, yeah, we're friends with a microphone now. Yeah, you know, it's not that we haven't seen each other a couple times over the course of the year, but the reality is the reality it was, it was it was.
Speaker 2:It was probably two or three cups of coffee before we did it, and then the relationship was with the red light.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's weird, I didn't think about that, yeah it's and and you know the realities of my work that you know there's 70 souls that I take care of every five weeks that want to feel better when they leave my chair. There's the hundreds of people that I know outside of that. That these are just the people I know, and these conversations, I think, matter in some way. You know, just just you know people being heard, people being seen in this world. That is, you know, just going fast, totally. You know where the data points. Yeah, I mean Pacific Palisades, burned down yesterday, is burning right now. It's gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's gone, yeah it, and now it's, and there's still 0%. As we podcast right now, control of any of that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and the new cycle will change, you know, three days from now. And, and you know, really, for me, my heart is that you know there are points of engagement and you know, whatever it is that these conversations will share to help you in your life or help you really love Santa Cruz more, because you know what has happened in the course of my two years, you know, working out my sobriety first, but then deciding to live here and be here and not wonder, not be angsty, just looking around me, like the beautiful place that I've been raised. You know just what a wonderful place this is and I think I told the story once. But you know, last year, kim and I were on a walk on the beach and you know, kim's just a very loving soul and she just feels things and she just goes. You know, we're just a capsule of beach. She's picking up sea glass.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And she looks at me, she goes do you wonder if Santa Cruz is just so weird? Because everybody comes here because it's so beautiful and they're just trying to experience some beauty and they're just bringing all their stuff and dumping it.
Speaker 1:It's part of it and it's like so we're the sea glass in that analogy well, it's just like there is something really magic about this place and and it it's, you know, weird to me, like how uber conservative some of my friends are and how uber liberal others are, and yeah, we all fit in a room together and like that's what makes this place so unique and I think it's something that needs to be celebrated. And through conversation of all these people who you know, I wasn't sure if I you know, six months ago I was wasn't going to go hard in the paint about the election, you know, because nobody's really right doing that in the county it's like, yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:You know, it's not that the election doesn't matter, but it's. You know what to. You know, 250 000 people where everybody thinks we're weird, matter to that election.
Speaker 2:Right, you know. But there's something to that, the you know and I can, I can a testament to that. You know, that impression. There's a truth to it, because one of the most intimidating things about starting the magazine and doing something every 90 days is content in one location. It's when I'm not in the industry, I don't know it two years ago, and I'm like it seems like a lot. Every six weeks, eight new articles, eight new things. But but as a as a you know, kind of a confirmation of what she said, that's just not an issue. Content, the diversity here, the things to talk about, the uniqueness, the weirdness of Santa Cruz, makes its way into every issue and I don't have enough pages to put it in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that doesn't echo, but it mirrors my experience over the weekend before I contacted you about doing this reboot here. Yeah, is that as I made my list. It's 100 people, it's 100 phone calls that I have of guests. No doubt you know it's like wait a minute, I'm not even like mining my no, and they'll be stoked to sit down. Yeah, and I'm like we live in such a special place. I've had such like mining my no and they'll be stoked to sit down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm like we live in such a special place. I've had such a special experience just being alive here. And the people I interviewed no, a hundred people.
Speaker 2:And you'll be you'll. And it's interesting because you could do like you talked about your show and I know you'll talk about it but is you can do, you're know you'll talk about it but is you can do you'll be the constant in that Petri dish you know of your podcast and even if you spin off three very similar questions, each show, every single show is going to be different because you're a constant and, like I told you when we had our indoor meeting, eventually you will kind of lubricate and you will be part of the conversation and your listeners will get to know you very well by small innuendo, crackbacks, your little times when you do kind of have the mic, but mostly you're going to be giving space to other people and just in this theory, it's not what you're going to do. But let's say you ask the same three questions to 100 people. It's 100 different shows and that's amazing and I think that's the beauty of this platform. That's the thing I were talking about when it was off air.
Speaker 2:Also about, you know, allo sliver coming on and and nelly kind of thing. Like man, he's gonna be on a lot of shows and stuff. Who gives a shit? Yeah, because I I've only met allo one time over at totally tubular. Nelly knows him and so I get to meet somebody I don't know. Talk about 108 foot wave and all the complexities of that up and coming. It's a unique fingerprint of 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes. Whatever we talk about, that can never be done again. I couldn't even do the same fucking show with the kid if we did it back to back. I couldn't, and that's how much I love this platform, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and it's again living in the strangeness of that reality. You know that we have the privilege, I get to have the privilege to just sit with everyday folks in this town that you walk by, everyday folks in this town that you walk by, you pass by at the gym, who are exceptional people. You know, if, if you get to get in that engagement, you know, and the privilege of living in that engagement and and that's really my walk away, you know, this is the shift for me is that my story is intertwined with this whole town. And yeah, and you know, it's confusing at first when you realize how interconnected the whole thing is, but no, and it's a.
Speaker 2:It's it, there's a, there's um. You know, there's a part of it too where we're only on this thing for a very short period of time and we, we have our interpersonal relationships, we kind of go through it, but eventually we can't get away from the world that we live in. And I've really enjoyed the last two years, including the podcast, including the magazine, having in my. You can't get away from that thing at any dinner conversation, something like what do you do? What do you do? And it's like, you know, for me it's a little more diminishing now, landscaping, it's going to be more of this media company. But there's a part of it that, if I'm here for a short period of time, I'm really digging that.
Speaker 2:One part of it is I write about people. I talk to people is a huge part of what I do, and so I'm on the sprint of this glimpse of a life which I don't know what the fuck it's about, or you know what it is. I life which I don't know what the fuck it's about, or you know what it is. I know we're expressing ourself and we're here, but I do like that my narrative is changing a little bit on the back end of my life, where, what do you do? Um, I make toys, okay. What do you do? I sell debt. What do you do? I make a. Basically work for Buffalo Wild Wings and Red Robin International, and, and, and it's what you do, and it is something that you do.
Speaker 2:But, I am liking this feeling of like mostly, what do you do? What does that mean? I write about people and I talk to people and it's fucking amazing and Stacey. And I read this book, sapiens. It's been a while, since we talked about it. But his Harari, I think, is his last name, but they strongly recommend it. Sapiens, did I say I'm reading a book.
Speaker 1:It's on my shelf, yes, of books I'm going to read. I have a whole list of 20 of them. I actually bought another one two weeks ago.
Speaker 2:I'm just glad I'm reading the book because it's a conversation I have with my dudes out there here at the workplace down at Satellite, where we're at, is that we're all talking about a book today and reading. I said did you read it or did you listen to it? He's like I listened to it and he goes that fucker says that all the time he's listening to it. And he says he'd read it and I go that's what I did. I've read five books. I just want to make sure I said we're reading a book, sapiens, because I'll never stop doing it.
Speaker 2:I want full credit for reading it, for reading it, yeah, yeah, and I'm publicly outing myself for it, but I am listening to all these books, but the fundamental one of the shifts in the chapters is and this is where it comes to this what we're doing right now. He thinks outside of all the other obvious, you know, cognitive revolution, all the things that happen, he thinks what, what, what, apex homo say, apex predator, homo sapiens, and have have us on the top of the food chain and where we are is gossip, gossip, and gossip has a connotation that's negative right now, cause we think of inquire and shit like that. The gossip's what we're doing right now. We're talking about events that we had in the past, things that we kind of may have in the future. We're talking about other people, we're talking about other experiences, and he thinks that the human condition of gossip is what allows us to be proactive, reactive, smarter than other species. The fact that we talk and process things out, that we think about circumstance we've been in.
Speaker 2:He gives gossip a much more elegant and sometimes it is down to that chick's a bitch, that chick, don't hang around that person. Well, that is a warning and that does separate us from other species. Because something's not right with that guy. Don't walk around that corner. You might say to somebody downtown here. Well, in other species they walk by like I'm glad that fucker didn't get me and they won't say anything to their other species about that weird fucking bent dude that's around the corner and they might kill them. Our gossip has that lowest, fundamental, but there's also sophisticated and I would say listen, listen to the book, listen to his take on the evolution of gossip and the species and then think about podcasting.
Speaker 1:That that's it well, that is absolutely fascinating because I'm more on the psychology side in my reading, yeah, and philosophy not in the sociology of it or that, that mechanism, scientifically. So it it's. I'm trying to find something to elevate, I'm trying trying to venture into the sociology side. It's a little bit too broad of a, of a, of a world for me at the moment, for for what my brain's processing.
Speaker 2:Just to stay on this cause, we won't kill too much time. But this is very interesting. Harari argues that it was when we started gossip that our reign of the world started. He calls the cognitive revolution, which is all together. Before we could gossip, homo sapiens was just another mammal somewhere in the middle of the food chain, above, above hens and below saber tooth tigers. We were not even the strongest of the difference human, different human species. Gossip enabled us to build bonds with our group and to know the other members, relationships which improved our cooperation and our competitiveness. Wow, it's fucking amazing, I'm telling you. It makes your head explode. But then I'm only drawing a line to your model. What we're talking about today is the evolution of gossip and now that we are so apex, so far beyond it, this is a sophisticated, colorful, lit board of gossip. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Thanks for gossip. Yeah, yeah, thanks for that. Yeah, I'll try not to feel guilty, yeah, so anyways, all in all you know for my listeners, thank you so much for listening. Yeah, there is going to be a shift. I am purposing myself to get more into the meat of really just acquired wisdom.
Speaker 2:Same name of the podcast. Same name of the podcast Right on yeah Again.
Speaker 1:I really wanted a whole identity change. I'm like no, no. You know this is the live with it, Live with the reality that you all kind of listened a little bit to my process. A hundred percent. But the reality is, is that the broken man that Brian met, that was just, you know, five, six months sober.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Wondering what the hell happened to his life. Yeah, had written a thousand pages of mumbo jumbo, you know. And, like God, you know, my wife goes. Oh, she got to have podcast and I ran into you. Yeah, Five hours later.
Speaker 2:And I said, do you want a cup of coffee? And you cry.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, that guy who was was was manic and depressed is now not and learning how to like. Okay, what is what is? You know, this version of Michael look like? Right that has an extremely cheery outlook on life now, who doesn't know how to relate to himself. Yeah, it's weird, but you know, what I have been given the gift of is what I've already had and totally getting able to celebrate this gift of friendship, this gift of camaraderie.
Speaker 1:getting to know new people because I have a microphone, like no doubt that's beautiful. And if all it is is that, getting to know new people because I have a microphone, like no doubt that's beautiful. And if all it is is that, and you know, whatever little money and sponsorship that I have so far, you know if it never amounts to anything. I got the privilege of sitting with these people.
Speaker 2:No doubt.
Speaker 1:But like and that, that's, that's, that's the ride you're in for and that really you know. You know what is it about. It's not about me, it's about these people and and whatever collection of wisdom through our gossip with each other, you know that can add to your life. You know cause you can feel there's some character in me, you know a depth in me, but clearly I'm not going to go into too many details about these things because they are private. When the door closes, the door closes and those stories have to stay there. That's just the reality of it.
Speaker 1:We can sensationalize them, but just like Pacific Palisades burned down, right now me burning somebody's life is not going to help anymore.
Speaker 2:No, and there's also the hard reality of that whole. And that's just not Mike Howard, that would be Joe Rogan, for instance. If Joe Rogan just started, for, you know, an hour each week working through his own shit, he wouldn't have 50 million downloads anymore after a period of time. It's you know, there's a platform, this is an outreach and it serves its purpose. But I think your new format is built for the medium. It's built to kind of highlight your ability to have intimate conversations with people. It's more consumable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's more consumable. So what's the format going to be? What are you thinking?
Speaker 1:Just pretty simple Three questions. Who are you?
Speaker 2:You, son of a bitch. That's our deal. You have to, then they're going to have to. I know I'm going to have you sign an NDA. I'm a hairdresser Like like Stacy and I came up with only three questions in any format before anybody else in the history of media no, I like that. So three questions.
Speaker 1:How'd you get here?
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:You know what? What is it that got you here, to this town?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know in essence, you know what will come out is what keeps you here. You know, and you know what do you grind on Like what? What's your motivation? Man man, you know, like what, what, what's, what's, what's your thing? Yeah, yeah, and, and just see where it goes, I doubt the conversations will be any less intimate or personal. And uh, you know it, it it seems to work in that space.
Speaker 2:It does. It's just a coffee house conversation, it's, it's, it's the. It's the best way to go about it. Um, you know, because I think, um, you know, I think it's the the. The river of the conversation is, you know, turning on the mic and having a title for it, having a guest, and then the estuaries are these little. You know the question's going to. You know, basically, you think it's going to just be one break in the river, but then there's going to be a conversation. It's just Garen fucking T, something's going to go on for 17 minutes. Yeah, because it's going to. It's going to. You're going to say I know that dude, and then that's going to bring up the dude story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's a commonality and especially you're keeping it to a certain extent local. You know, like I like formats like that because you'll have sort of this connectivity with the guests and this local kind of like culture. But then I my gut feeling is is you establish it and that's kind of where we are with Nelly and with some of these other you know podcasts that we're managing at vibes is. I think it's very similar to this.
Speaker 2:The magazine again is I want to put a human on the cover, um, from day one. But I had always decided it was going to be winter of 24, 25 that we put Jack on the cover and I decided we needed to establish an identity before we put a person on there, even if it's Jack. And once we have like a brand identity and we have the trust of our audience, after issue one, two, three, four, five, six, we throw Jack on the ground and it's consumable because it's Santa Cruz vibes and your podcast I think will be the same thing that after a period of time in that format working locals, I think it would be fun to throw somebody into the kind of grinder that's not from here, that is a guest, that's on the bigger kind of like stage or whatever it might be um and and see how that kind of flies from the outside.
Speaker 1:I have you know, I have my people yeah, that sit in the backdrop and all the ndas and all the attorneys you have to talk to and the processes you have to go through, being as close to proximity as Silicon Valley as one might be, no doubt.
Speaker 1:But really, brian, the thing that I think about is that about six months ago, we were talking to this maker's mart that travels around throughout the region and my wife, like every other wife, loves to go look at earrings and things like that. Yeah, these ladies make other ladies feel beautiful. And what do they do? They go collect sea glass, bind it with metal and stick the right hoop in to stick it in your ear and make people feel better about themselves. And these are the people that I see in the county. I love it. Of course we have our big people like Jack. We're sitting here staring at the magazine Cover, the magazine right now. Of course, everybody knows who that is. I get to see those people grow. Yeah, these women all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know I get to see these. You know people making sandwiches that are doing their best to make it.
Speaker 2:No doubt.
Speaker 1:You know, in a town that's very confused about food, yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have no identity. You know, we have no identity.
Speaker 1:Just trying to figure themselves out. And you know, and certainly going to pull Maddie in here from Pointside at some point Love it, you know, when she gets her legs. But just this reality that there's so many really, really great people around us that own businesses, but it's just not them. But they're putting their heart out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's. I think it's a commitment, I think the commitment to, to um, a commitment to um a path, a commitment to a platform, like you're doing. I saw something on the uh uh CBS morning show this last Sunday. A guy decided to take pictures of sunsets and he's done it for uh, four years every morning. And and he, what? What is to that? When you're on day 37, you don't even know it's going to be four years, day 200, you're thinking maybe I do this for a fucking year. Then a year goes by, two years go by. What happened at some point is that became a thing. It's a gallery in the back of his gift store, all of his sunsets for 1,200 days. People can buy postcards, they can buy it.
Speaker 2:He created an identity on just basically jumping and committing to a practice, and I think podcasting is very much the same way in certain capacities. Certain podcasts are you know I get on with Brian and Paul. You know Paul Lucateli and Brian DiDiego, and it's the real estate, sex and gossip podcast. There's no sex, there's no. I don't even know what the hell we're doing on there. It's fun, though it's always fun and there's everybody's laughing.
Speaker 1:Friends, being friends, it's friends being friends.
Speaker 2:It's basically Brian making fun of Paul, paul defending his modeling career, and I'm like there's nothing in the title we're doing. I can't wait to pull Paul in. Yeah, paul's great no-transcript. The, the compelling nature of the conversations will create engagements and then that's the full circle thing. It's no again. No different as far as tying that bow. It's no different than you standing in front of 80 people on a Saturday or Sunday given a 45-minute. You know, did you call them homilies? What did you call them?
Speaker 1:Well, no, that's my guys yeah. That's your Catholic ass.
Speaker 2:Are homilies corn? Are they white corn? Are they white corn or homily?
Speaker 1:Well, the homilies. You know, I appreciate the homily because they're well conditioned. The priest only has five minutes to add his little tidbit. Yeah, five to seven minutes. The Vatican has the rest.
Speaker 2:In the Catholic kid religion we call them like.
Speaker 1:it was a good bit yeah yeah, yeah, and it's only five minutes. You know, I had to entertain people for 45 minutes with the same scripture. Yeah, you said stretch it, stretch, they got a good leash. Let me contextualize a little bit more about what was going on in this region.
Speaker 2:But my point is it's really the same opportunity. Maybe it's 17, maybe it's 50, maybe it's 100, like Nelly, maybe it's 600 people. They are impressions, yeah, and the impressions in the world we're living in create downloads. Downloads are. I'm going to save it to my library. So when you know Mike drops a podcast, it dings on my phone. Those are all the way through relationships and I think you know a lot of people want to come in and they think they're going to basically just see this. It doesn't work like that. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's. You've got to be in it for the, the, the organic part of it, which is the conversation, yeah, and then it will go from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so anyways, that's my little tidbit. Uh, not really necessarily a big shift, but a shift of really being about something, and really for me it's just being about us, Like this is a great community. We got great people in here. You're going to get to know some people that you've eaten at their establishments, You've passed by them, you didn't know who they were, and just getting a glimpse into the marvelous people that make call this place home and, uh, and to get to be a part of that is is a privilege. And whoever listens listens, whoever doesn't doesn't. And and hopefully, in those engagements, whatever wisdom can be plucked from those things or whatever um, solidifying of why you're here, why you're listening, whatever that can do to make other people feel stable through their process, Cause that really, this was a great stability for me.
Speaker 2:Well, there's no doubt and I think it starts where you started in the first two minutes you talked about. You know this sort of like this, uh, uh, this, this condition, this, this growing condition of of quote unquote not being seen, um, but if you sit with somebody like this and you turn on the red light and you spend 45 minutes or an hour, um, you can check that box. I don't know what the fuck comes of it, but you were seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The door was closed. Yeah, and that was a moment, and that by itself is powerful, whether two people listen to it or not. Um, they have. They the their shits in the library of Congress. This goes up to Apple and this is forever Like. These words go into the permanent record of human history. That's the difference now between you know, conversations um, for all intents and purposes like this, because these are just bullshit conversations. But if it was 1917, it just goes into the ether.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know. But the beauty of this one now is like you know your kids, their kids, kids kids, if they want to hear. You know, you know, uncle mike, grandpa mike, whatever the fuck it is, um, you know they can. They can play episode 29 of of unpacked and naked and get a sense of the guy, and this will also make very compelling. You know, I'm only doing this for one single reason I'm trying to get as many words out there with as much as my personality. So when we merge with our technology, I'm a fair representation in my clone self of myself. Nobody's going to be more like Brian, because I'm going to spit out so many words that are written, so many words in this stupid mic that when the Brian 2.0 comes out it's going to be just like this Brian. I'm going to fucking love that guy.
Speaker 1:I'm going to hang out.
Speaker 2:I hope I stay healthy enough to hang with that guy for a while.
Speaker 1:Listen. For those of you that are listening, it's closer than you think. It is closer and and, uh, you know, again in my own weirdness and all the things I'm connected to like, there's some, there's some really cool shit that's gonna be coming from ai here, you know so I was so far ahead of my time and I'll share this with you because you're a friend.
Speaker 2:It's never made it, just like my fantasy books never made it to human conception, but I wrote at least 20 strips um a comic. I did the art myself, I did all of it. It's called the singularity. I wrote it about 15 years ago and the concept of the comic strip is that I'm just me but there's eight Bryans that are interacting characters, all from the future back. One of them is my little shiba inu dog in a helmet. But we we're basically like. There's one strip I remember it's like me and 4.0 and 4.7 and one's always smoking because it's kind of broken a brine, that's always. But we're watching star wars and we can't. We're watching star wars 47 together and I'm trying to explain star wars. I was trying to explain the comic. Why you're trying to explain episode four, four and and then they're saying, well, four or one.
Speaker 2:I'm like, well, you had to watch four before you went to one. And then they the joke of the whole strip is, like you, you'll understand 57 when you watch 32. So it never ends. But, and then to to tie the bow on the other side of it for whatever, throw it out in the universe, but if, hopefully, if you hook another two, three people, it's like the concept of what we're doing and what's changed over years that the machine of santa cruz vibes media has changed dramatically with our partnership with event santa cruz.
Speaker 2:Um, you know the, the, the kind of like promotional machine behind our chosen podcasts, which are now five and it'll be nine by April. You know, as we're going to kind of keep evolving it where we move it, you'll have your own studio, you know where you'll be doing this show and so it'll kind of go in the promotion machine. We're going to kind of, you know, basically use some remote live broadcast where we bring the town to certain locations and sort of lift up their cash registers a little bit with the proper guests. But mostly what we want to use is use our newsletter 10,000 people a week to get QR codes to go. We use our radio spots on KRML radio over in Monterey, santa Cruz Voice here to get 5, 10, 20, 30,000 people with 30 second drops for our podcast studio, the website, all of it. So I think we're going to do our best to throw 900,000 drops for our podcast studio. You know the website, all of it.
Speaker 2:So I think we're going to do our best to throw 900,000 impressions at our podcast studio and as, as we all stand in equal standing in there and I think we just want to kind of accumulate, you know nine, 10, 15, 20 podcasts, including a lot of our nonprofit partners, are coming in. You know so, and you know so, um, and you know some of the bigger players, like Metro. I think we're going to start doing some quarterly podcasts, but we'll be surrounded with other podcasts which will get eyes onto basically our podcast hosting platform, um, and so people will listen, we'll promote it and, um, you know that'll be all associated eventually, depending on where you go with it. We got a YouTube channel coming in April where we're going to have the three camera on selected podcasts, if they choose to kind of elevate that way, because I think that's a whole other platform where you put the video on it, so we'll do our part for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I'm super excited about what's happening for you. I mean it's been fun to watch because it's been a long time since I've been around something that's making it, you know, and as someone who deals with entrepreneurs on a regular basis, just with the due diligence work that I, that I do for the capital group down in Santa Barbara you know, it's. You know, most of the stuff fizzles out.
Speaker 2:There's no doubt.
Speaker 1:Like it's, it's so. It's weird to be around a couple of projects right now Like, oh, this is going it's going and it's going in a 24 month period that I can't imagine a harder time to start a business in the last 24 months. Yeah, I mean it's been persona non grata since 2016. That's what I know, cause I'm in the finance side of things.
Speaker 2:Nothing is getting funded and our business is based on getting money from other businesses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's, it's it's, it's, and that's why I'm so optimistic for 25 and all of the, the, the, the relationships we made through a very difficult time, um, make me feel like, if you can build a business at the bottom, like we just did, you know, the pendulum swing eventually doesn't have to go crazy, it doesn't have to swing all the way back. But if, man, if we can get a little nudge, a little nudge with the fundamentals, we're in really good shape. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and again. All of this is really exciting. But you know, I want to tell you thank you for the privilege of just knowing you. That was been awesome. And and to to be able to be on this journey with you, like, however it lands for me, like I, I don't care, I talk, no doubt I do it's. I make a living at it. You know I can do it various ways, it doesn't matter, but you know, again to to the audience, that's been very controlled right now. The retention has been been pretty good. I love it and and that's that's that was the evidence for me to whether to put more time to it. Totally, it's sitting there and that's great. And I'm getting feedback. I'm getting clients that I need for that's it for for counseling, and here we go. You like that, this is, this is all part of it, and you know this is how the sausage is made.
Speaker 1:It is and it's just weird to be part of like no, here we go.
Speaker 2:No, here you go, and I think you start getting an assortment of guests. They have their own little nuclear blast of people they're going to share with. So the the tens will become 20s and 30s and 40s, because they're excited to have been on something and they share it, and a couple other people then they listen back to a couple episodes.
Speaker 1:It just works yeah, and I and I just love honestly in my heart of hearts just being santa cruz centric yeah, I love it it's like I love this part of town and it's it's been great, so you're gonna play us out with music. How you're gonna do this?
Speaker 2:what do you do here? I don't know what's your time. Where are are we?
Speaker 1:at. Do we know that's my. That's my shortest one ever.
Speaker 2:This is my perfect number. Are you kidding me? This means I can go to bed by. Yeah, hold on. Yeah, I can be in bed by seven 30.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got a phone call after this, so we plan I don't even know, back to let your healing from Colin Brown.
Speaker 2:There it is. So I'm trying to think of Are you going to eventually start like a? I guess eventually, I don't even know if you play that game. Do you do any social media, anything like that? Do you do any?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's all, it's all going live.
Speaker 2:Okay, good, so you're going to do the, the Instagram page and all that shit. I'll have the.
Speaker 1:Instagram page and you get to hear from Beer Mike. Next I interview him on Saturday. He's the main brewer at. How am I forgetting this?
Speaker 2:I have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Water Street. I can't believe I've forgotten the brewery, do you?
Speaker 2:want to Google it? We've got time. We're only at 48 minutes. I mean, you hyped it up Woodhouse. Oh man, they're blowing up right now.
Speaker 1:Well, Mike is like I don't know if you guys know him. His class of brewers, Boochcraft Juneshine. He was the guy that ended up up here it must be super impressive. You can't even remember his fucking name of his business it must be great, it must be so good, and I was drunk the last time I was there this phone's really great.
Speaker 2:I don't know who makes it.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine who anyway. So you're going to be here for beer, mike. I love it. This phone's really great. I don't know who makes it. I can't imagine who. Apple, apple, anyway.
Speaker 2:So you're going to be hearing from Beer Mike. I love it Okay, and I guess I'm done here. I'll see you next year.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, love you. Peace Fucker.