Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Mike Howard talking ....
Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Episode 38: Mike Rodriguez From Woodhouse Brewery, Crafting Legacy and Resilience in Life's Journey
Discover the remarkable journey of Michael Rodriguez, a visionary in the brewing industry, as he shares his courageous family history and his passion for jiu-jitsu and rugby. From escaping Cuba to pioneering new brews in Santa Cruz, Michael's story is one of resilience, creativity, and a love for sports that transcends cultural barriers. Uncover the rich tapestry of experiences that have shaped his path, from the brewing floors of Boulevard Brewing Company and Port Brewing Company to the founding of Woodhouse Blending and Brewing.
Join us for an exploration into the heart of rugby, where the bonds formed on the pitch extend far beyond the game itself. This episode paints a vivid picture of the brotherhood and camaraderie found in the sport, with stories of unforgettable matches and lifelong friendships forged through shared struggles and triumphs. The inclusive spirit of rugby is celebrated, illustrating how the game fosters a sense of belonging and mutual respect, even amidst its inherent intensity.
Jiu-jitsu takes center stage as we delve into its transformative power as an escape from competitive pressures. Michael and I share how this martial art provides a sanctuary for personal growth and reflection. The episode also touches upon the joys of coaching and the impact of nurturing young athletes, as well as a thoughtful discussion on spirituality and belief systems. These conversations weave together a narrative of life’s diverse paths, highlighting the importance of understanding, respect, and personal fulfillment.
Welcome to the Unpacked and Naked Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Howard. This podcast is brought to you by Santa Cruz Vibes Magazine. We are fortunate to be in their media suite. It is also brought to you by Pointside Beach Shack. We get the privilege of using their great facility here on 41st Avenue. But anyways, I have the pleasure and privilege of sitting with a friend of mine, Michael Rodriguez. Michael, welcome to the podcast, Michael. Thanks for having me. What's up, bud?
Speaker 2:Nah, just here. You are here today, yeah.
Speaker 1:You got suckered in yeah, ropes, ropes. That's why got suckered in, yeah, ropes.
Speaker 2:Ropes. That's why I don't commit yeah.
Speaker 1:So Michael and I I think we became pretty fast friends at jiu-jitsu, yeah, and that is where we met and I've really had the pleasure and privilege of knowing you now for about seven years and you really are a beautiful heart to me, michael.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Michael.
Speaker 1:I see your passion for stuff and the conversations we've had when I've been cutting your hair and all this stuff. You just really are a beautiful soul, thank you.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it, as I sit here blushing, I appreciate that. Thank you, yeah, as I sit here blushing, you know I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Thank you, yeah, but, uh, I do appreciate you coming, coming to the podcast and sharing your story, uh with with the audience, but tell us a little bit about yourself. You know how, uh, you know who are you, what do you do.
Speaker 2:Whatever you want to tell us, Wow, yeah, a little bit about myself. Uh, mike Rodriguez. I found my way out here in Santa Cruz via a pathway through San Diego, but originally starting out in Kansas City, missouri. Of all places, it's kind of where fate would have me land. My parents, both Cuban. They came over to the United States via Spain. My dad was fought in the Revolutionary War against Castro on the side of Batista. Wow, this.
Speaker 1:I did not know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So yeah, they were there in Spain I mean sorry, excuse me in Cuba, trying to get out. And so they my grandfather on my mother's side, my maternal grandfather. He is a Spaniard from the northern part of Spain, in Asturias. And so they sorted out to basically they said they were going on vacation to visit family and that was one way they were able to get out of the country. But to do so they had to basically leave all their personal belongings to the government as almost like an insurance that they would come back to claim it. So this included the wedding rings. My mom and dad got to leave with the clothes that were on their back and another set of clothes, and my sister as well, and that was it. And then they went to Spain for three years, living with family over there until they were able to get over to the United States, and then they established themselves there for a little while, and then they had my brother in 1975.
Speaker 2:And then I was born in 1977. Then, years later, I started brewing beer at Boulevard Brewing Company and then I got an opportunity to brew out in San Diego for Port Brewing Company in the Lost Abbey. Some of my friends were living up here in Santa Cruz area and they reached out to me and were like hey, what do you think about us doing something up here? And they convinced me to make the jump up to here. So we uh started working on, uh, woodhouse blending and brewing, uh, and while that was kind of starting out and trying to get our permits and stuff, uh I started doing jiu-jitsu. I had grown up wrestling out in Missouri and I'd always wanted to do jiu-jitsu. Just had kind of was busy with rugby.
Speaker 1:So what kind of rugby Like were you playing pro league rugby? I don't know how the sequence of how rugby works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or like I don't know how, the sequence of how rugby works. Yeah, so well. There's USA Rugby, which is, I guess, the parent kind of organization here in the United States, and there's a few divisions At the time when I was playing, the highest level was Super League, which doesn't exist anymore and then there's Division I, ii, iii and then eventually, division IV came along. So, yeah, down in San Diego I was playing with the Oceanside Chiefs who won Division III I want to say 2011 or so and then, just this last year, actually, you made it to the finals in Division II but lost a tough match, but anyhow. Yeah, so I was doing jiu-jitsu and in jiu-jitsu, at some point you started your jiu-jitsu journey and that's how we had met originally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do want to talk about jiu-jitsu journey, and that's how we um, we had met originally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I, I do want to talk about jiu-jitsu, but I'm intrigued a little bit by San Diego too, because you know, here we got got a Missouri kid, you know he's, he's ventured out to California. You know, you were one of the first people I heard about at jiu-jitsu, but about your talents were one of the first people I heard about at jujitsu, about your talents, uh, in in beer craft, but but you were, you were part of actually a really talented group of people. You know that that there's a lot of rock stars that came out of your group yeah, including you pizza.
Speaker 2:pizza port um has one has done a lot. I mean they've been around a while. They do a really good. I mean they put out a really good product and yeah, they've a lot of good. People have come from there and are are just spread around the United States working at different places and starting their own places and I've had the opportunity to work with a lot of them and yeah, it was a really great experience, really cool crew. I actually was to my understanding at the time when Tommy Arthur hired me to be the head brewer at Lost Abbey Port Brewing Company. I was the first one that was hired outside of the company because they were Vince and Gina Marsaglia. The sibling owners of Pizza Port were really big on promoting within kind of that culture and it truly motivated people to be involved. And yeah, and it really I mean it's proven, that's worked out for them and they just keep on adding locations and each location just keeps on putting out award winning beer and yeah, that's, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a part of you. You know it, so I have a little bit more curiosity there. Did you go to college or anything on the science side? It was just something that you fell into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not for brewing. The brewing side of things was more old school, old fashioned. Old school, old fashioned Uh. Originally I was bartending at this brew pub called the power plant, uh in Parkville, missouri. That uh, the brew pub no longer exists, but I uh, my interest, um had it, so that I was going in there on my days off and working with um the guy Matt who was the brewer at the time, uh, and asking questions and learning how to brew and you know everything that went along with it.
Speaker 2:You know, transferring and cleaning the tanks and packaging, and, and at one point eventually, uh, he was married and him and his wife, um, were having a kid and he was originally from uh around Columbia Missouri where the university is, and he had gotten a job out there and so they moved to be closer with family and I kind of stumbled, fell into the job that opportunity kind of situation and was making the beer there for three years when Boulevard Brew company um had a hiring, a spot open up, um and I went and interviewed with steven powells and um, yeah, I uh interviewed.
Speaker 2:I remember interviewing and then getting home that day and they at the end of the interview they were like, yeah, well, uh, you know, we've got a couple more to do. And then getting home that day and at the end of the interview, they were like, yeah, well, we've got a couple more to do and then we'll contact you or let you know, kind of thing. And I went home that day and was in the apartment I was living in and a few hours later I got a call from Steven and they had offered me the job.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I was pretty excited about that. Yeah, that is exciting. Then they had offered me the job, so that's amazing, I was pretty excited about that.
Speaker 2:It's exciting. And then spent six great years um at boulevard and then um on a trip to san diego, visited the lost abbey, was just opening up and visited and was having some beers and chatting with tommy and uh kind of similar situation where eventually he was looking for somebody and he reached out to me and asked if I was interested. So I had that opportunity and all of a sudden you're a brewmaster. Well, yeah, I'm just a brewer. That's like one of those titles, that's earned yeah gotcha, you're not there yet.
Speaker 2:Well don't, I'm not gonna self-title myself.
Speaker 1:It's something it's not.
Speaker 2:I technically haven't earned you know yeah it is what it is. That's what we love about you that's not cool to the people that have actually put their time in and earned that title you know I don't go around calling myself a doctor if I didn't pass medical school, or if I'm just handing out something, yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little bit about what you do at Woodhouse and how that came to be.
Speaker 2:Well, like I said, a couple of the guys I went to high school with William Moxham and Ken Kiefer were already up here and they were just kind of seeing the scene kind of growing you know, and were just like, hey, what do you think about having a go at it up here? And so they started looking for for spaces and and found one over there, off of, uh, Madrone, down, down by downtown, um, off the one in river street and uh, I guess, like you know, like they say, the rest is history, you know made the move up here and started working on it, and then the pandemic hit, so that kind of threw in a wrench in everybody's life.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, dealt with it. It's had its bumps but we're pushing through and we're excited for this year to happen. We've got some issues with getting our permit for outside live music, but we've got it. So that's all good. That's behind us now. So, like I said, we're really excited for spring and summer and having some outside music, some live music and beer, of course, and yeah, and community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So we have a community that we share. You know, apart from beer and you know, jujitsu is certainly the space where, where we have spent the most time together. Uh, what has that community been like for you?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, so I, I, I love, I love, like teammates, I love that kind of aspect of of community. You know that type of community. Um, I don't know if there was ever a year of my life that I wasn't active in some sort of sport. Um, you know, like I said, growing up I did the usual soccer, baseball kind of thing. Basketball was never in my future.
Speaker 2:So in the Midwest if it wasn't going to be like basketball in the wintertime, so it was wrestling, so, yeah, so, fortunate enough, I was also in an area where there's a lot of tough kids, so that definitely helped my development. And, yeah, so I started playing rugby and with some guys that had played in high school during the time that I was wrestling, and with some guys that had played in high school during the time that I was wrestling, and then afterwards, when it had gone off to college, and then when they'd come back, they wanted to start a men's club in the area. And so you know I was all for it and willing to give it a go.
Speaker 2:And same thing, the camaraderie, you know the game itself is amazing, but the people you meet, you know, like afterwards, you know, with the men's club especially, you know if you go and travel and play another club, after the game you go to their bar you know, and they host you and they feed you and you have you know, tell stories and you talk about the game and and usually the guy that punched you or you punched you know, is the first guy you're going to have a drink with, you know, and it's all left on the field, you know it's. It's never anything that's. That's turned like.
Speaker 2:You know, really personal, not to say that doesn't happen but no, for the most part, yeah, it's just everything's left on the pitch and, um, you know, I've met some amazing people throughout my life with it. I've got to travel and play some cool places because of it and uh, yeah, it's a small fraternity and, um, it's also a different breed you know if you wrestle, then you play rugby and then you know whatever. It's also a different breed. You know a little bit. You know if you wrestle, then you play rugby and then you know whatever. It's definitely a different breed mentality.
Speaker 1:You have to enjoy the grind, um yeah, I mean my, my cousin played and he was a football guy in high school and then, you know, went to San Jose state and then picked up rugby there. Yeah, Didn't stop playing until he was 40. Yeah, you know it's unlike football.
Speaker 2:Rugby, just like jiu-jitsu, is for everyone. Everybody on the field is allowed to run with the ball, allowed to tackle, allowed to pass the ball, allowed to score.
Speaker 1:Now everybody's allowed to kick the ball, though a lot of times.
Speaker 2:If you kick and you're not supposed to, then your teammates and your coach is probably gonna be pissed. But yeah, still allowed. You know, um, but beautiful, beautiful sport, um, but it's also hard on the body. Yeah, you know I, you know, dislocated my collarbone a couple times, broken noses, my fingers jacked up. You, you know plenty of. You know bumps and bruises, cuts. You know forehead top of my head. One game I got a boot to the head and like split the top of my head and I didn't want to leave. I wanted to finish watching the game and I didn't want to go in the ambulance.
Speaker 2:I wasn't an ambulance situation, but I didn't want to go to get it sorted out, mind you, and we didn't at the moment have any super glue, cause that's always a good fix.
Speaker 1:So I took a I believe it was a Tecate out of the the cooler and I actually have pictures of it somewhere and we, we taped a ticate on the top of my head, to my head that that you know I, I want to sit in this spot a little bit because, um, you know, I know, certainly with my friends, you know, as pertains to just to jits, they wonder why, you know why, why what is sitting in seeming violence is there this culture of peace and camaraderie? You know this, this thing, you know I, I can extrapolate a ton about it for me personally, but but there's something about, you know, like being in the arena, you know, with the people willing to be there yeah, that has done something to change my heart yeah, well, you're definitely find more respect with those guys that you know like sweat next to you, you know bleed next to you, kind of thing you know they're actually putting in the work.
Speaker 2:right, you're gonna, you're gonna do for them as you see them do for you, and you're also going to find more respect. You know for them, um, and work harder because of it. You know you're you're, they're your brother for you know lack of a better term Um, and so you push harder and you work, and that's you know, usually how you see the outcome of success you know like that um, there's an uh you know African proverb or that's.
Speaker 2:You know, if you want to go fast, you know you go alone. If you want to go far, you go together, kind of mentality thing. And um, uh, you know, like ruggers are, I can cuss right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally yeah. I have explicit on all of them other than a couple.
Speaker 2:Ruggers are just fucking nuts, man, you know, for the most part, you know Like, yeah, I have just fucking countless stories of rugby, stories of just ridiculousness, but but, at the same time, amazing people. You know like I've just, you know, a lot of these people do anything for you. You know like I remember being in an airport and striking up a conversation with a guy because he had a rugby bag you know, a rugby kit bag and he was just like yeah, you know, if you don't make your flight, here's my information, give me a call, blah blah, you can crash at my place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is what I'm alluding to, this culture of just being for each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, like I said, it's just a different fraternity. So everybody's probably played some Pop Warner football and whatnot, but there's not that many, especially this is late 90s, early 2000s, when I first started playing and there wasn't as many teams, there wasn't, it wasn't as popular, you know. So if there was somebody else that was doing this, you know, then there was respect there. You know, just like for me, you know, with jujitsu, uh, you know, you get your. It's always, you know, interesting.
Speaker 2:You get these, um, athletic kind of guys swinging dicks. You know if you will coming into the room and then they're humbled fairly quickly and then for, for a good majority, they don't come back. Yeah, you know, that's that ego part where they make excuses or whatever. I don't, I don't, I don't know, I don't, I don't know the mentality. But then you know, I've, I've, there's been so many more people in the room, you know, that have gained my respect because they didn't come in athletically, whatever, or any kind of experience or just even experience in any kind of competitive anything right and and they've stuck to it.
Speaker 2:You know, and years down the road you know they've achieved belt levels and they're able to like relay. This, you know, information to new people that are coming in. Maybe some of them are competing and doing well.
Speaker 2:And it's just a big Jiu-jitsu offers a lot of intangibles besides, like standing on the podium and don't get me wrong, I'm competitive, I like to stand, like to stand, standing on the podium. But you know, just like the mental toughness, you know just, you know if, if you know you can solve through some of these problems on the mat, um, then it makes some of life's, you know situations, just as easy yeah, you know, yeah, well, you know it's kind of a cliche, you know.
Speaker 1:But it's kind of a cliche, you know, but it's kind of it really is worth repeating for the audience. You know the hardest spell to get in jujitsu is the white one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the black one's what you get when you keep coming, you know. But but the hard one's the first one you know because you have to keep showing up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and another cliche that you know, I I really like it's, you know it's it's consistency is more important than perfection. You know you're gonna, you're gonna have your bad days, you're gonna have your good days.
Speaker 2:But, um, yeah, you know, like the other day, uh, I heard something and I it's just been really I've been a big, I've been a big fan of it since and it was kind of like interesting because it worked out perfectly and I was able to share and convey this message to the kids in the kids class over at Scotts Valley, because one kid was feeling frustrated because he felt like he wasn't learning anything you know, you know and and, and part of it goes back to you know, consistency is more important than perfection because, like, if, if I'm going to be honest, I, you know, he could be coming to class more, you know, but beyond that, you know, what I heard that I thought was amazing was, um and I wish I could remember where I heard it but this guy was talking about how, when you first start learning something new, you know that's the time that you're you're, you're going to feel like you, like you're an idiot, you know, like you're stupid, you know, but, but in reality, like that's the time when you're actually learning.
Speaker 2:And you're an idiot, you know, like you're stupid, you know, but in reality, like that's the time when you're actually learning and you're getting smarter, you know. And you know, like, if you go to the gym to start working out and it's been a while and you start lifting the weights, you know you feel weak. You know it's easy to feel weak, but in reality you're getting stronger, you know. And if you consistently go back to the gym, you know, then you're going to notice hey, yeah, I'm actually, I'm actually getting stronger, you know, and you realize that that kind of works out, you know, but so it's easy to get like frustrated and whatnot when that happens. But you got, but you you gotta be. You know the motivation is is easy. You know motivation is when it's when you feel like doing it. You know it's the discipline side of things, uh, that are that are hard you know, like you know, for for for jujitsu, or growing up, wrestling to, to cut weight.
Speaker 2:you know you have to be a little bit more disciplined as a as cut weight, you know you have to be a little bit more disciplined. As a youth, you know, and even getting older, I wasn't as disciplined as I am now. But for now, you know, what I think about is, you know, do I want to? You know, or even workouts, you know it's like do I want to suffer now or do I want to suffer during the competition? Yeah, yeah, you know, and then have excuses, you know, yeah. Or do I want to put in the work now, kind of be tired, miserable, whatever, or work on some techniques that I don't know so well, where it's easy to feel like I don't know anything, or work out and feel weak, you know, or do I want that to happen when I'm doing competition?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, this is really a sweet spot that I wasn't really planning on, but. But I'd love to articulate a little bit more here. But I'm going to contextualize a little bit. You know, in in my story for a second. You know, jujitsu for the first time in my life was the first time I had a choice to not live in this competitive juggernaut that has been Santa Cruz my whole life.
Speaker 1:And you know I've had my achievements athletically. You know the town's hyper competitive, it doesn't know it. So it makes it a little weird because everybody thinks everybody's mellow here and it's really not. And so you know, when Matt Grenier, you know, invited me to come, that was my fear is like how competitive of a culture is this? You know, in that sense that Santa Cruz is that way because I didn't like it. You know I don't like it anymore. You know, the more I'm realizing about the pain that I've inflicted on others is because of this thing that's just kind of in us here, which is good on the one hand, but but it has its, its pockets where it's just not kind. And this exercise that I've been doing, every belt promotion, which has been a strange one to do because I'm not a ladder climber. You know, I just don't do that um, but this is the first time I'm like going.
Speaker 1:No, I'm gonna do this till I get my black belt yeah and so you know I'm that silly hobbyist that's just actually there to live in a process of achieving things that other people are seeing in me. Sure, you know not trying to do this thing. So every belt ceremony I actually prepare a speech in my heart and in my head of, like what would I say this year about what it is I'm doing here and what this journey has been like?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:And it's been so good for me, like it's so healthy to like, look in retrospect of like. Well, this year this is what I learned about myself that I'm I'm not here to learn this. I'm not here to learn that. You know, this year I get to say that this community is it didn't have to be church to me, it didn't have to be surfing, it didn't have to be this thing that I achieved something.
Speaker 2:I got to process myself and all the bullshit I was going through and just belong somewhere in that process yeah, well, I think part of it, you know and and I don't know how you feel, but is the fact that, like uh jujitsu, when you go into into any gym, is a mix of all those things? Yeah, right of, of, like police officers, you know, criminals?
Speaker 1:yeah, santa cruz, maybe somebody's growing some weed, I don't know yeah, well, I'm talking like no, no, maybe someone just got out of the can and um, you know teachers, construction people, doctors, lawyers.
Speaker 2:You know a you know a gambit of of of people. You know professionals. You know you know, or students, even um, and, and I think because of that, like there's no and there's no room for it in the gym, you know, it's just like on the bar. You know, at the bar there's no. You know talking politics and religion, right. If you're on the mat. You don't think about your day, no you're just trying not to die.
Speaker 1:You're trying not to die.
Speaker 2:Or you're trying to make the other person die Because you can't think about your bills, you can't think about your significant other, uh, your work, you know anything like that. You know, and it's um as somebody who's fairly high anxiety in the way of where I, you know, try to plan everything out to be super efficient, and you know kind of OCD about it, like it definitely what that part helps me with my jujitsu, but it uh definitely being on the mat helps me um kind of live in the moment and disconnect and uh, just be present yeah, yeah, and then that that I mean that's really well, put that the mat really honestly.
Speaker 1:almost for the first time in my life was the first time I was present somewhere. Yeah, you know, you do not have room to think about anything else because the person's trying to kill you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I've tried to do it with yoga and I've gotten to the point where I enjoyed yoga for its own reasons, but not so much because I could sit there and meditate and kind of be in the moment, like it was almost. Like, the harder I tried I got, like the monkey, mind you know Like the harder I tried the more.
Speaker 1:I was just like oh my gosh, why can't I you know?
Speaker 2:like be in the present, and I'm not really in the present, you know. But yeah, with the jiu-jitsu, it's um, it's, yeah, it's impossible, almost impossible, not to just be yeah, yeah, well, well, that's.
Speaker 1:That's a little bit of a segue into um. You know, things have changed in the last year at the club. Uh, you've helped open a studio with tom, what you know, one of one of our professors, tom and tech. You know, like this, this is the strange thing about jiu-jitsu you got to watch out for the tech nerds, that's right they're gonna beat the shit out of you.
Speaker 1:That's right you know they look, they look, they look funny with their glasses on, but those are the scariest dudes, um, but but you've started a new club up in scts Valley.
Speaker 1:But there was a heart behind it and this is what I was hoping we could get into in the conversation that there's an affinity that you and I share and I was a coach for 15 years. I actually started coaching baseball again this last season, had the privilege of that Get to do it again this season with a majors team, had the privilege of that get to do it again this season with a majors team. And this thing about bringing you know, in my case, other future young men up into what is life and using sports or athletics as a metaphor for what life's really going to be like. I think that you share that affinity in more than some ways, probably in a lot of ways, but but I would love for you to share a little bit about, about what you're doing at the club and this, this kind of lover's leap that you took, because because it's not that you're missing a lot, but, like you, you're starting a new family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, yeah, definitely adding Um.
Speaker 2:Well, shoot, let's see. Um, I, I've always enjoyed teaching Um and so that wasn't a big stretch for me. Um, and actually when my last few years in Kansas City, I had the opportunity to help out at my old high school, I helped out this amazing person, a rugby coach, who just gives back to the sport like no other, tracy Davies, and I had the opportunity to work with her, with the club, the high school clubs there, and I really enjoyed it. You know just, and it was just, it was neat. You know when you realize too, when you're not just playing, you know you can say you know the game, but you know, like they say, when you can explain it and coach it, that's when you, that's when you understand it, you really understand it. Yeah, and so there was times that I had to like really sit there and be like, oh, that's a good question. You know, I always just kind of like did what coach said. You know, but when you have to sit there and break it down and you, then you explain it, then you know um, and then when you get to see them apply it and it clicks and they pull it off, like in a game or something. That's really awesome.
Speaker 2:You know, in Santa Cruz, um, tom professor, tom Tupper, uh, who would eventually be you mentioned he eventually be my partner up in Santa Scotts Valley. Um, he, he ended up um being, uh, helping out and being a wrestling coach at new Brighton middle school out here. Um, the coach at the time, I believe, was having a kid and stepped away for a couple of years, and so he had asked me to come and help out. And you know, I said, sure, I'll give it a go, and so I went out there and I helped him for about three years and it was really fun, had a good time doing that. And then, you know, covid hit, and then, about the same time, when everything was starting back up, the coach was ready to step back in. So it all worked out Like it was really really nice and seamless, and yeah, it just worked out.
Speaker 2:And then in the room, you know I just, and then in the room, you know I just, I've always just really enjoyed sharing what I've learned with other people, especially if they're working on the same thing, and there's other people in the room that do that, you know. And so it's just to me it just makes sense to give back. You know that iron sharpens iron kind of mentality. You know no reason to keep any kind of secrets to ourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, just with you know, again with the kids. You know like I would get more nervous when you know the wrestling with the kids would compete. Or you know now when the kids would compete in a jiu-j, um, way more nervous than when I compete, um. But yeah, you know, just like it breaks your heart when they, when you, when they, when they look sad and they're all disappointed. But it's, it's, it's awesome when they, when they're proud of themselves, you know, and it's, you know, just like they're sure they're happy, you know, and it's great that they, you know, might've won a medal, but like it's more, like that, just that self, you know, that compliment thing that that to me is is really amazing. And you know, you know, I think everybody, you know it's great for kids to experience you know, that self-confidence in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I, I um, this year, this last year, um, coaching baseball. You know, at this age, kind of post, raising my own kids and doing the thing with the other dads, all that kind of stuff. It was such a privilege to sit with them. And you know Matt Coon, who, who, uh, who was the manager? You know he doesn't know shit about baseball, right, but he knows I do and you know so I'm the pitching and catching coach, you know, and I also know how to work umps and how to do the thing.
Speaker 1:And you know there's, let's just say, another team was put together pretty well and he didn't get that team. You know they weren't the bad news bears, but let's just say, on the talent side, you know it wasn't there. But this just say on the talent side. You know it wasn't there. But this is what my affinity is. You know, even when I was in charge of all that and could get to talent, you know it's not that he didn't have talent on my teams I've coached some stellar players, you know, some of whom have gone on to play pro. And the point isn't that it's that. You know. My perspective is this is that you give me somebody in the 60, 70 percentile. As far as talent goes and the affinity towards wanting to know, wanting to learn, I was always trying to produce coaches, not players.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:And in the process of becoming a player, is where you find out what kind of coach you have at the end, and that was the culture that I always liked to have and that's where Matt and I really shared this, this thing. You know it's like, yeah, man, I'll turn this team into something. You know, we recognize the deficits in the league. I knew how to game the particular system and these kids went they almost went all the way and, really honestly, the team that that ended up winning TOCs was a team that we beat handily early in the tournament, and the team that we lost against it became a culture issue, you know, because we could have won that game, but Matt chose culture over that, because we would have not been coaching them the way that we had been of just living their belief in themselves and trusting your guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, exactly Well. Trusting your guys? Yeah, yeah, well, exactly Well. Trusting your guys and knowing your players right, like as a coach, when you can have a plan, let's say, of how you're going to play, for example for me, you know with rugby, right, and say you have a certain plan of how you're going to play. Well, a lot of that's going to really rely and depend on who shows up to play.
Speaker 2:You know you can't say, oh, we're going to be a pack heavy, pick and go, you know from the rucks kind of team and just pound and you have like smaller guys showing up you know that are playing in your forwards.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. So that's going to be the the. The coach has got to have to identify what you're, what you're working with, and establish a style of play, you know, in accordance to that you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was cool about this season in particular is is that we had a methodology to win. It just didn't fit inside the mechanics of who the team had been the whole time, like we could have done the thing, which is just pitching rotations harder, you know faster, moving guys out sooner, but the temperature of the team was trust and just trusting your guy and, you know, not utilizing the little tools that you can just to win a ball game. But it changes how the kids feel. Sure, they don't feel trusted Once you see that first sequence of pitches go errant, not subbing them out. We just didn't do that that season, yeah, Well, mental is a big part of competition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's that locker room victory. You know kind of thing, right when, if? If you're competing not to lose, that's completely different than competing to win.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so that's that locker room victory for the other guy. You know, like if the other person you're going against, if the other person you're going against or the other team you're going against is just looking not to get embarrassed, you've already won yeah, yeah you know. But if they're like, you know, thinking about punching you in the face, you know yeah, like, um, that's you know, like you know you always have like um, that's you know.
Speaker 2:Like you know, you always have, like the, the guy that gets off the bus first the intimidating guy gets off the bus first kind of thing too.
Speaker 2:You know like, and you know um, yeah, any anything that you can get mentally is potentially a big thing. A lot of that, too, goes with competing. You can do well in the gym and have hard rolls, going hard where the other guys are really being competitive, and do well, and then go to competition and it's a little more hyper focused. Or you've got other things to think about, like making weight, you know, finding your, your mat, you know all these other things um that um could play into how your day goes. You know Um, so kind of, the more you get into those situations, the more you know any kind of variables that can happen. You've you've addressed them. You've been through it. Oh, your time changed. Okay, not a big deal. You know they've bumped my match to, you know 15 minutes later. Okay, Not a, not a problem. You know I've done this next warmup.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know okay, whatever.
Speaker 2:Okay, whatever. You have your snacks ready, that you know that are going to work, you know how much water you can take in, just like with anything. Just practicing makes perfect, as they say.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, we've talked a lot about discipline and I want to switch gears a little bit. Is there like a spiritual practice that you adhere to? Is there a yeah thing?
Speaker 2:yeah, so let's see spiritual what. What do you consider spiritual mike?
Speaker 1:well, you know that there's there's god and there's a universal field, right, you know you have the science end of it where there's there's god and there's a universal field, right, you know you have the science end of it where there's clearly something bigger in play. You know, when you get to religious studies, you know you have different cultures that have different concepts of who god is. Yeah, or or good, you know what's? You know god, good, devil, evil, sure, this, this, kind of thing yeah.
Speaker 1:You know and you know I'm not trying to make anybody squirm or put anybody in the corner, you know, but it's you know from my perspective. You know long time pastor that way, long time Christian, if that's the way to put it, and the discrepancies that I found in Christianity or the way it was being adhered to in the theologies that I operated in really was dismissive of the goodness that I saw in people, generally speaking, and the practices they were doing that mostly mirrored, if not, were better than the things that we were doing, or people were preaching but weren're following behind the closed doors, you know.
Speaker 2:So I guess when I say spiritual is there like a discipline back there about you know I, I'm with you, michael, like I consider myself agnostic, you and I think my, I don't want to say you know, I guess gripe with with human religion is the, the human aspect, the interaction, the hand that it plays in there, right you know, as they say, you know, those that write histories are the, the people who who win the battles that have the pen.
Speaker 1:Who did all the killing and had the pen left?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, kind of thing. So I just, you know, find it interesting, you know, like where we as humans, of course you know, make certain adjustments to satisfy or make it easier to live within the confines of that religion. Martin Luther, his 95 thesis, and then other people were like, hey, I agree with this guy, so now I'm a Lutheran.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Then they went about killing each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but my point is that they were like oh okay, this makes my life easier because I agree with what this guy says.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then the Church of England. It's like, oh, you can't get divorced. It's like, oh, I can't get divorced.
Speaker 1:Well then, I'm going to create my own religion and call it the Church of England.
Speaker 2:And so other people, I'm sure, were like oh wait, I can do that in that religion. Well, now I'm part of the church of England, you know, and you know. And then of course you've got you know Mormons and Scientology, um and uh yeah, all the strange cults, so all the spinoffs you know, like and so like, when you have like to me the the fact that, uh, l Ron Hubbard, I believe, has a Guinness book record of having the most short story science fiction novels written.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like. To me that's like a clue.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe this other book is also maybe not exactly accurate, you know. Yeah, but it's, it's, it's. But I am fascinated by religion, Um, but I don't adhere Um, but I definitely believe in, you know, the golden rule you know, and every you know religion, you know for the most part, does have that in there. And and I get this belief you know for the most part from my, my mom, um, who, uh, yeah, you know was basically the same way my parents never like forced my siblings and I into any church.
Speaker 2:You know we never really talked about it much but yeah, I know she felt that, whether it was God, yahweh Buddha, whatever it was you mentioned it earlier there's too much that we look around this room that's going on to say, okay, this is not by happenstance yeah, yeah, you know um, but at the same time I just you know the thought of, of a heaven, um, it's definitely comforting yeah you know it's really comforting and it's a good control and of course, fear is this amazing control, you know, even personally for yourself, and so the the thought of like this damn fire you know hellfire and damnation, kind of like hell, is very motivating to a lot of people to not do things.
Speaker 2:I mean me personally, I just don't think, I mean, I don't, I take spiders outside yeah you know, I don't think, if I kill a spider I'm, you know, damned, you know, but I just don't want to kill another human being either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no no but I and and in that, in those regards, you know, I just try to to live my life as a good human, and I don't do it for the hopes of this eternal afterlife, because I don't. That's not what I believe. I don't believe. I think it's basically you just go to sleep, almost, you know, hopefully there's no pain beforehand, and, um, yeah, and it's almost like no dreaming, nothing, you know, like whenever you've gone to sleep and you wake up and you're like, wow, I didn't dream, you had no memory. Yeah, it was just kind of black room yeah, but just yeah peace yeah
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, so, um, what are the things that really bring you joy like that, that there's an affinity towards? You know, and? And we live in a very interesting time. I really feel like history is about to change in some some way, and part of that might just be my age or whatever else, but I'm looking at this and it's basically to me. The economies have merged. We're seeing things for what they are, but I've grown more and more hopeful with every year.
Speaker 1:It's gotten more chaotic, which is strange, because at least if you want to see it, you can see it for what it is. The institutions are dying in some way. It's not that I think they're going away. I was part of institutional failure as it pertains to the church, so I know much about where the church went wrong. So it's easy for me to identify those things, at least for myself.
Speaker 1:But what's been interesting for me? As I've gotten older, as I'm seeing more and more of this chaos, it's like I don't think I've been more joyful than I am right now. I don't think I'm more hopeful than I've been right now when I look at the generation that my kids are in. I'm looking at people who will have answers, you know for the problems that we have created. And you know, you know, there there's this big macro idea of humanity and you know what, the 12 or 13,000 years humans, the way we've understood them so far in our little tiny window, you know, like I don't know if we're going to make it, who knows? You know, the, the, the world's going to make it, whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the world's going to keep going, no matter if we were here or not there, there will be something else, but but what's been strange for me is this joy, and it was strange to experience it most on the mat Right. So this is, this is the strange contradiction of like, hey, you know, I'm actually never going to learn what I need to learn to be good at it. But that's not how I'm treated here. I'm treated like another respected human and you know, again, if I'm giving my black belt speech today, it's like I just got to be present in the midst of excellence and they allowed me to be there. And not only did they allow me to be there, they called me brother, cause I don't ever have to be excellent, like, like it's been, it's filled my heart in a way I really didn't imagine. It wasn't what I expected.
Speaker 1:I don't call it church, it's not church. Look, we're beating the shit out of each other. But like, the joy that I experienced in the pain, because it hurts, and the growth has been something for me that I needed in this part, and jujitsu has contributed to that. You know, I don't know that if I did or didn't do it, whether I wouldn't still be at this spot, but I can definitely look at it and go well, I am here and because of jujitsu, I got to participate in this perspective before I had it well, it's real.
Speaker 2:I mean, like you know, like we were talking, jujitsu is just, it's just, it's a real scenario. You know, you, you can, because of like, tapping, yeah you know you're allowed to go. That's enough. 100. Well, but we but I'm saying you're- allowed to go 100, so it's like you know, practicing it is this tried and true situation.
Speaker 2:And then it goes back to me, or for me, um, like, like we were talking earlier, like that respect with the people in the room that that are sitting there sweating and putting putting in the room that are sitting there sweating and putting in the work, no matter what they're in there for.
Speaker 2:You know, they're in there working to better themselves. You know whether it's like somebody like Travis, who's looking to win an adult you know world championship, or somebody who's like Gerald, who's in there just moving, you know to just Rolling Stone. Gathers, no Moss kind of thing, and it's stimulating, he's learning something new, but he might never compete in a competition. But the reality is is that if he was, you know god forbid somebody was to attack him. You know the likelihood of him being able to at least limit what's happening yeah, yeah you know, there's no doubt in my mind yeah, yeah, and so there's.
Speaker 1:There's again another little sweet spot here where I really want to inform the listener, you know when, when Michael's talking about going a hundred percent, what we're talking about is that there's an agreement that we are trying to kill each other, that we are trying to rip each other's arms out, limbs off, all that kind of thing Not that we're going a hundred percent towards that that thing, but there's an understanding that that is the goal, and and so I think, if I'm hearing you right, you know what you're relating is that, because that is the understanding, we get to experience something that other people don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you, you can do. You know, like if you ever sparred with boxing or Muay Thai or anything like that, you know um now wrestling you, you, you go live, but there's no worried about like joint manipulation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that. You know it's, it's hard Joint manipulation.
Speaker 2:And it's, and it's, and it's hard, it's, it's, it's fucking hard. You know Um, but um, and you're going to get injured. I'm not saying you won't, but it's not not, not the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sore sore not hurt. Hurt not injured, that's always the goal.
Speaker 2:My point is is that, like with Muay Thai, you can't kick each other without the pads Like you would in competition. Um, you, you, you wouldn't be able to train.
Speaker 2:yeah, you know you wouldn't, you would be hurt yeah, every time, every time you would you know, like I don't know what those guys how, what kind of a layoff after like a fight would be. But yeah, you know, you can't go in there and throw 100 at somebody's head without headgear and pads and expect your sparring partner to want to come back. But with the tap in jiu-jitsu that allows it to get to a point where your opponent, your partner, can say, hey, that's enough, that's as far as I can go.
Speaker 2:And that allows an opportunity for us to test ourselves in a way that other martial arts don't allow for, Like more of a real life scenario, and you get to actually see hey, does this really work? In the martial arts circles there's the McDojo term you know the martial arts circles. There's the McDojo term. You know, and we've all seen the guy. You know that with the chi that can just move his hands and the people fall down without being touched. And um, you know, there's these places around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause I mean that that was my previous martial arts experiences. You know I was in the Taekwondo world but you know those of us who actually went and kickboxed, that's who you knew were the guys, because you're in the actual combat, not the art of it.
Speaker 2:There was an arena of competitive for kickbox. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And the reason why I want to kind of stay here, because I've actually never had a conversation to this element, to this. I had never considered the intellect, because we're in that deep combat like where if you don't tap you will pass out. You know, if you don't tap your shoulder will be separated, you know your elbow will be broken, but you know, whatever those things are, I never considered the fact that we're allowing the human to be their own intellectual padding yeah you know, like you have to decide to be in it to decide what the pads are yeah and that's fascinating concept to me.
Speaker 1:It's like oh, that's it, you know, wow, like I get the choice of what hurts too much because it's being delivered. Yeah, you know, and there are no barriers?
Speaker 2:yeah, and I'm sure that there are. There are people that feel more comfortable, um, do you know, especially at a certain point in their their journey or their training of what they're going to do, you know, because they might not feel so comfortable being in under that much control and not wanting to hurt somebody you know, a few years ago, when you know it's seemingly like the heel hook was just like the end.
Speaker 2:All All you had to do was kind of grab it and there was no escape. Well, I mean maybe at the time, but nowadays more and more people are figuring out escapes and it's not that simple of just kind of grabbing the heel, yeah, and so just so the audience knows a heel hook, does it all, it's a great equalizer.
Speaker 1:It's foot, ankle, knee, potentially hip. It's one of those magic spots that everybody didn't know how to escape and now, as we're all watching, it's got its own game now.
Speaker 2:It's a great equalizer and, applied correctly and with not a quick reaction, it can really mess up somebody's knee. Yes, but there's, you know, I guess, in certain competitions, when people are obviously signing up and are aware that that's potential, I think that's a go, you know, and I think that everybody should learn these things if they're training jujitsu and whatnot. But there's definitely, you know, should be some conversations had on what's going on and I think that you know, catch and release, um kind of policy is the best, because sometimes it's it's the other person like can just not realize the situation they're in and turn the wrong way.
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, I'm barely in that space to kind of potentially know again. Fortunate enough, yeah, I mean to be in a club that the people who know how to do that. No, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:So it's like oh, I got it, let it go yeah my, my suggestion and advice to most people when when they're in that situation is um, just just get the fuck out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, like you're in a gun battle with somebody if they know what they're doing is got like the bazooka and you've got like a slingshot, you know kind of situation. So the best thing to do is just to to get get out um and reset, reestablish the situation.
Speaker 1:Well, let, let's, let, let's, let's close this out.
Speaker 2:So what does bring you joy when you look towards the future? Yeah, so you know, like I, I really been been enjoying the coaching over at Scotts Valley and you know the possibility and the opportunity for that to grow and for our kids program you know as well as the adults but the kids program to get you know some good numbers.
Speaker 2:You know to like rival. You know the other three locations, yeah, you know, because to me, you know you know 47, I don't have any kids, that's kind of like where I guess my legacy would be, you know like, you know, like passing it, that on um, any kind of information, life kind of, you know, struggles, journeys, whatever tips, you know, I was fortunate enough, you know, I feel that I was fortunate enough, um, throughout my life, uh, to have some amazing coaches that really affected, um, how I approached not only the game that I was was doing um, but life as well and um, and yeah, and so if, if, I can kind of impact you know some kids lives the same way that, uh, you know these people impacted mine. You know, for me that would be amazing and it's not even like a thing where I have to know about it, you know you know, it's just you know the hopes.
Speaker 2:That that's you know there. Um yeah. I like that you know, like I've been, I've been called a lot of things in my life, you know but but coach is one of my more favorite things so far.
Speaker 1:I love that. So, yeah, you know it's, let's share the icing on that cake Cause cause, other than being, you know again, a husband and a dad, I don't know that there's been anything in my life that has done what coaching has done to my heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, there's little shits out there.
Speaker 2:Oh God, Don't get me wrong but it's, it's amazing, you know, like, obviously, like with, with something like jujitsu, it's those little shits that need to be in there the most. Yeah and um and then uh, yeah, and then watching. You know, as long as they're persistent, you know, like I saw something the other day it says, like kids don't quit. You know the parents do, and as long as the kids are allowed and to keep coming and are persistent, you know they, they shape up. You know. I don't know if shape up is the right term, but you know I'm saying they mature.
Speaker 1:Some kids take a little bit more time on that frontal lobe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I often have parents that are apologizing for their kids behavior and I'm just like you know, like they're five, yeah, you know, I get it, don't, don't you know? You know, yeah, that's when they're like 17, 18.
Speaker 1:They used to get a little more concerned, as long as they're not like you know, like hitting kids anything, but if they're just like spacing off and whatnot.
Speaker 2:You know, like man, they're just kids. You know, yeah, as long as they. You know again, as long as they just keep coming for it, and then everything will fall into place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the message man Just keep showing up. Yep, michael Michael, thank you for your time. I love you man, thank you. I love you, brother, I mean I just you know, of course it's you and others there, but the place that you've made for me from the beginning, I just want to thank you. Awesome, I totally appreciate who you are as a human, Appreciate you Not just what you've done. Appreciate you. And hey, people go to fucking Woodhouse. Yeah, go to fucking Woodhouse.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:This is the guy making the beer. Let's have a beer. He's a good man, all right. Well, you all have a good rest of your day or evening and bless you. Cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, cheers, Cheers.