Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Mike Howard talking ....
Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Episode 43: Michael Chavez, From Ken's Top Notch Produce to Community Love: Harvesting More Than Just Fruit
Welcome to the Unpacked and Naked podcast. I am your host, michael Howard. I have the lovely experience of sitting today with Michael Chavez from Ken's Top Notch Produce, located at the Live Oak Farmer's Market. What other market are you at, michael Westside?
Speaker 2:And sometimes we're at downtown on Wednesday. That's great.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to do a little preamble here. I do want to thank Sanctuary's Vise Magazine for being a co-sponsor of the show, also, pointside Bee Check. But before we get too far down to the weeds that way, I just wanted to share something that has really been my goal with this podcast and I think, as you have listened to this podcast, you're finding that I'm trying to capture something that is very real here in Santa Cruz and that is there are people that really choose to be here, and I have a very unique experience today that Michael does not know me. I do not know him. What he's finding out is I've been spying on him for the last four years.
Speaker 1:It might feel a little bit uncomfortable, but you know, there's this thing that happens with humans and I think it's really gotten lost here in the last few years. And what you've noticed about the previous podcast you know, for those who I'm hearing from, who are DMing me and letting me know that they're enjoying it is that we're capturing conversations that used to happen over a cup of coffee and I'm not sure exactly what happened with humanity, but there's something that's been a little bit lost and as weird and as awkward and voyeuristic as doing a podcast is where you're having these conversations in front of everybody as though this is normal. It doesn't really feel normal, and I'm sure Michael's got his own nerves about sitting in front of a microphone it's not his most favorite spot.
Speaker 2:It's definitely my first time doing this, so I am a little nervous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but the reality is that I'm wanting to capture something and, as I just said, kind of jokingly, I have been watching this man for about four years at the farmer's market. I have been watching this man for about four years at the farmer's market and what you guys wouldn't know is on Sundays, that's my wife and I's day to just be together and just go do things and be a part of each other's lives that the normal business of life distracts from, and so we set aside Sunday to be with each other, and one of the things we do is go to farmer's market. And when I showed up at Farmer's Market and I think it's more like three and a half years ago, it was about this time of the year I noticed this man and I didn't know anything about him, but over the course of time I just noticed that people really, really gravitate towards him and there's just this kindness that emanates out of him. And you know, I wasn't sure if he was from here. I didn't recognize him and you know, being a small town as he is, he could have been from Watsonville or something like that, just not in the fabric of the local community that I was in. So you know, I didn't really think anything of it, but over the course of the years I've seen this pattern and I wanted to get to know him, and so I just kind of sat back and, and you know, not really knowing where the podcast was going, but knowing that these are the kinds of moments I wanted to capture.
Speaker 1:It's like to make a new acquaintance, make a new friend. You know that, that I think all of us are kind of spying on each other in their weird way, wondering how we fit in, wondering how others fit in, and this is what we're letting you into. Is that Michael's taking this risk? He's got no idea who I am. He doesn't know I lived here forever. He doesn't know anything about my family, anything like that. But there's something between us that that is very much in common and and and what I respect most about this guy is how he treats everybody, and I've and I've I've watched some crazy people approach him. I've watched. You know he doesn't know the, the millionaires and billionaires that come and buy the fruit that I don't know. Do you grow the fruit or are you a distributor of it?
Speaker 2:I sell for a buddy of mine. He's the farmer and he's a fantastic farmer.
Speaker 1:I'm very honored to sell for him. Okay, so I'm going to get out of the way here. So, michael, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? Whatever it is you want to tell us about yourself, married, not married kids, just go.
Speaker 2:All right, where do I begin? I am married. I've been married for 34 years to a beautiful lady, minnie's my wife. We have three amazing children. They're all grown up. Now I have my daughter, mariah, my son, michael Jr, and my baby boy, matthew, and two of them, mariah and Matthew, come to the market with me. They sell with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got to meet them last week too. Yeah, it's awesome to be able to work with my kids.
Speaker 2:You can't be any prouder to have your kids there. I get so many compliments on them too, because they take after their mom. They're really beautiful kids, great personalities. They're so friendly Boy. Where do I begin with the market. You know, I mean you hit it. You know right on the nose, right in the head of the nail, that the market itself is such a beautiful place. You know, I mean that's a good place to spend your Sunday afternoon because it's I've tried to explain it to a lot of my friends what the market's all about, you know, and it's special, it's like a community.
Speaker 2:It really is a community, that you know. That, um, it's um beautiful. I've met so many people from so many different walks of life. You know, and particularly here in Santa Cruz because it's a tourist town, you know you get people from all over the world. You know that come and uh and the market is, you know you, actually people are present. You know they're present at the market. You know it's not something different than going to a supermarket. You know you go to a supermarket and and, um, you know you don't. You rarely converse with the, with the, the checker or whoever it is. I mean you might say hi or how you doing and that's about it. But in my experience at the market I've become friends with so many people. You know, and it's been a blessing to me.
Speaker 2:You know, coming from before I started the markets, I was actually doing the fruit. I did fruit before I was a serviceman for a fruit company that put waxes and fungicides. So most of the stuff you get in the supermarkets, okay, you know all the commercial conventional fruit with fungicides and waxes and everything that goes on to the fruit. You might not realize it, but now I'm on the organic side of it where you know it comes right off the tree, uh, it's fresh and, you know, and it's special, it's something different. So the market attracts those type of people. You know that they care about what they eat, you know. And, um, santa cruz is.
Speaker 2:I'm fortunate, I'm very blessed that I that I ended up coming down this way, you know, to to these markets, because, uh, I've really grown to love the community and I've become friends with so many people. It's, it's, it's unreal. I've people have opened up their houses to me, you know, and say, hey, you're welcome to stay at my house, you know, you're welcome to, and I do. Actually, there's, um, uh, gentleman and his wife that opened up their house to me and basically, you know, gave me their own, gave me a bedroom, you know. They say, hey, you can stay here whenever you want, you know, and they've really just shown me a lot of love, you know. So, let me just so, where are you from? Oh, I'm from. Actually, I'm from the Central Valley. Yeah, which part of the Central Valley? Okay, let me. This is my first time doing this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's okay you're good.
Speaker 2:I was born and raised in Dinuba, which is just southeast of Fresno. Okay, yeah, and it's farmland. I grew up a farm basically farm labor To get our school clothes. We'd go pick grapes and, you know, pick fruit and that's how we earned money for you know, to pay for our clothes and things like that. You know, basically my parents were farm laborers, you know.
Speaker 1:So how old were you when you started doing?
Speaker 2:that Boy, young Heck. I learned how to drive a tractor when I was like seven years old. You know, wow, we do pick gondola wine grapes, you know. Okay, and that's where I learned how to drive, you know. Okay, I ran over a couple of vines while I was learning, you know, but before long I was, you know, pretty good at it.
Speaker 1:Good.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, we picked various fruits grapes, peaches, plums, oranges you know the typical stuff that comes from the valley all the tree fruits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for our audience. You know they're from a lot of different regions. Why don't you help kind of paint a picture of what the Central Valley is to the world? I mean, it is part of the breadbasket of the world.
Speaker 2:Oh it's definitely the fruit basket of the world you know I mean if you can travel.
Speaker 2:You travel anywhere in the world, and you'll see that it comes from. Most of the fruit on the box will say it comes from reedley or kingsburg or dinuba, which is the central valley. All the tree fruits, you know, all the peaches, plums and nectarines, and I've I've done it myself. Every time I go to a supermarket, when I'm out of state or somewhere, I'll look and see where the fruit comes from, and it comes from my own backyard. That's so great.
Speaker 2:The thing about the organic farmer's market stuff, though, is that a lot of the varieties that we bring down here are different than you're going to find in the store, because they're sweeter, they have more sugar, they're varieties that you can't really hold. That's why people are always saying man, how come my fruit doesn't taste the same? As you know, I go to the market and I go to the store, and it just doesn't taste the same. I say, well, a lot of the varieties are different, you know, because you can't. If it has too much sugar, it's not going to last. You know it'll rot too fast, so they can't ship it. So the varieties that we bring to the market are tree ripe, and you know we tell them hey, you better eat it right now because it's going to rot if you don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I have a confession for you. I'm not a big fruit guy and one of the reasons is is that I grew up actually eating fruit and you know, as you know I think we're of a similar age that somehow food just didn't taste the same the older that we have gotten. Yeah, and you know, I'm not an expert in agriculture or anything like that, but it's pretty clear that the big farms, the big, you know, corporations, have overrun a lot of things, and I literally started eating tree fruit again with your fruit, like I.
Speaker 2:It's good stuff, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm just just. You know I got so sick of having bad oranges and and bad plums and things like that that I just was done with it. You know I. You know I had my own trees in the yards that I grew up in here and those have since died. Or you know, a house has been remodeled or whatever and lost the tree and just have not been able to grow my own fruit again in my own yard. Yeah, so it's a taste that I just lost. It's not that I didn't eat any, it's just that it's just not how I remember it. But, like when I like this last batch of oranges the last month have been like, oh my gosh, I forgot what this was like.
Speaker 2:They're definitely good yeah, kenny's a great farmer, you know, and he grows fantastic stuff and you know. To elaborate on what you said earlier about the big corporations buying, buying stuff out, boy, I can, I can, really. Um, I saw it, I saw that transition happen because when I first started working for the company that I used to work for, the, the wax company, uh, you know, 20, shoot, probably 25 30 years ago, um, there was so many small farms I I used to, I used to have a route of probably 20, 20 little packing sheds that I used to uh service. You know, little mom and pop shop here, little mom and pop shop, you know, uh, they have a, some equipment in their garage or their shed, you know, and one and one by one, they just started disappearing. One by one they just started disappearing and now you just have, you know, a couple of big, huge outfits that do everything.
Speaker 1:You know, they pretty much kill the small mom and pop shops, you know, and, if I remember right, you know because, being from here, let's just say I know some cold storage people and some distributors you know that are fairly well known. You know that moved to the desert. You know, to make fruit year round, you know. I remember that happened in the early 90s where things were really changing and you know the form of the fruit was getting larger, the taste of it was changing. You know there are a lot of things that happen. It's just been the slow migration kind of away from food tasting like food so we could have year-round. Yeah, absolutely, and and uh, yeah, it's not been to my taste but I'm particularly finicky and last they make it for the last.
Speaker 2:You know it's, they make it, uh, they cross it and whatever modify it, for it doesn't rot. You know what I mean? Yeah, but along with that, it doesn't have any flavor either.
Speaker 1:Oh, progress, yeah. So you know, if it's okay to kind of stick in this vein a little bit, you know we do have some connection. I actually have a very tiny cabin in the Central Valley.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:In the Southern Sierras above Bass Lake.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm part of a very small forest and community. Up there we have about 80 cabins where we're located and I have the privilege of living next to a lot of elderly foresters, yeah, who you know. Over the course of time we've watched what's happened with the forest and you know now, now these are guys I wouldn't naturally lean into. You know, they certainly run on a far more conservative level than I do and present as a particular way and are pretty gruff men, you know, if you meet them at first, but as we've grown to know them, you know I'll never forget a particular moment where the man who owns all the land that we particularly live on was sharing with me a story and you know, political things are really upsetting at the point and he pulled me over and this guy hasn't said more than hello to me in his lifetime and he goes. You know, michael, I want you to come over here, I need to talk to you a little bit, and he was showing me this part of the forest that was dying and he goes. You know, the things that are happening right now are now happening to you, but they already happened to us. And what happens? The big corporations up the northwest put us out of business. He goes because all these beetles would not be taking over this forest if we were still the protectors of this land, because we would identify that that's where it was and that's where we forested and we took care of the mills that were down here and we provided the lumber and everybody was making a good living at that point and the forest was in really good shape. And now you know what do we have here? You know we have corporations that are strip stripping, you know, the forest just away entirely to produce these things.
Speaker 1:And it was a real hard lesson to learn from somebody I thought I was so different from and I'll never forget him looking at me going. You and I are not different. We both see what we love and we're seeing what we love die because of a lack of caring. And I don't want to impose that same kind of thing onto what it is you're saying, but there is this certain reality that the way that we consume, you know, sometimes at a price that's more amenable, doesn't necessarily do the right thing for the land, for the people, for all that kind of stuff. And you know, my wife and I have long ate organic food, you know, I don't know if it's virtue signaling or whatever else, but but you know wanting to put the best in our body, but to your point that that it is a very different world than the one that you grew up in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and you know I mean it's for the most part the markets we're going back to because that's that's what brought santa cruz was the farmer's markets, you know. So that's why I'm I'm here and um, for the most part, most of the vendors are small. You know small farms, you know they're they're not the big corporations, they're small farms. So that's why you know they take care of of, of their customers. You know they appreciate the, the business. You know I mean I, I I'm very appreciative of everybody that comes by.
Speaker 2:You know you get to the bigger corporations and you know it's just like going to a Walmart or you know, if you go to a mom and pop shop or a Walmart, you're going to get a little more appreciation from the person that's got their heart, you know, got everything they own in their business, you know. But going back to the forestry, I can speak to that directly because the town that I'm at, in Dinuba, we had a mill there called Sequoia Forest Industries, you know, and that employed, you know, a thousand people and years back when they shut it down and they, you know it, people and, uh, years back when they shut, shut it down and they, you know it, hurt my town. I mean a lot, a lot of the people directly that I know, I mean friends and all. I lost jobs and and it really directly affected them, you know. So, um, and a lot of that area that you're at, bass Lake area and all that that needs to.
Speaker 2:You know, a lot of forestry used to come from up that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're down to one mill and you know, before the fires there, that one that ripped through there about three years ago, there was one before that.
Speaker 1:You know the mill that was the local mill was operating again and I could get one by 12, like real stuff that was coming off the hill 100 years ago for 80 cents a foot, oh yeah, and they're even on the cusp of not being able to stay in business now and it's so hard to watch these trees just die on the ground and you already know this because you're from there.
Speaker 1:The Southern Sierras have pretty much gone through their death process and now it's got to burn for it to rejuvenate in some way. And you know, I think for me, you know, because I wasn't a young man when that conversation happened I had a lot of thoughts about all of it the environment, you know, to be really put in my place in a very healthy way by this old guy, I had a lot of thoughts about him because he's cranky, you know, but really realizing that we are the same person, that he is an environmentalist just like me, and I don't get to think all the thoughts that I have about these things just because the media told me one thing, when really the reality was, you know, his family was caretaking for that land for 100 years.
Speaker 2:That's just like your yard, man. You can't let it overgrow. You got to maintain it. If you want it to survive and be a plush, you got to maintain it. You just can't let it grow wild, because that doesn't benefit your yard one bit. You got to prune your trees and pull the weeds out and cut your grass. Do the things, do the things that and cut your grass and do the things. Do the things that need to be done do the things.
Speaker 1:So tell me a little bit about about your grower and the kind of fruit that he grows, and and and you know he's an organic farmer and and you talked about waxes and things like that that the fruit that you're bringing down is, in fact, straight off the tree and ready to eat as it's. As it's put out absolutely.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know kenny's, he's a good friend of mine and, um, I'm very, very, um, you know, blessed that I get to know because he's such a good, good gentleman and he takes pride in what he does. He's very, very um, um, you know he cares for what he does. You know he doesn't want, he wants the fruit to be amazing. He has no problem. If fruit that he plants doesn't taste, you know it's not up to par, then he'll push the trees over and plant something else. You know, because he wants people to get the very best, you know, and he cares for his fruit and it's all organic. Like I said, they pick it off the tree, put it in a crate and they bring the crate out here and you know, there you go.
Speaker 1:You know you can't get much fresher than that. I'm down to my last tangerine and I'm coming tomorrow, just so you know. And they're good this week, they are good this week, they're really really good.
Speaker 2:It's a different block of trees you know, I can't wait. Yeah, they're really tasty. I can't wait. And you know I'll talk a little about my life. I used to do the pre-harvest and, like I don't know a little bit of your past, you know I had a drinking problem. You know I was, you know, pretty much an alcoholic, a functioning alcoholic. I didn't want to admit it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as most of us are right.
Speaker 2:I mean I thought I was sly, I didn't think to, I didn't want to admit it, you know, as most of us are. I mean I, I thought I thought I was sly, I didn't think anybody my kids know, or you know I tried to. I tried not to drink around the house, you know, it was always in. You know, my problem was I like to drink and drive at the same time, you know, and and out there. Out there in the Valley, it's a little different than here in the city. You could drive on the country roads out there where there's really nobody around, and I would go out and sneak some drinks in and come home and act like nothing's wrong. But I was an everyday drinker, I did it every day. I didn't want to admit that I was an alcoholic, but I was.
Speaker 2:And in the process of drinking and driving, I know I got a couple of DUIs, you know, and lost my job, lost my license, almost lost my family, you know. And that was I hit rock bottom. You know, it was just like, man, my life. What's going on here, man? I was just a mess, you know. And my brother went to pick me up. Pick me up the second time I got my, my DUI, my second DUI, which was four months after I got my first DUI, and, uh, he picked me up and I'm just, I'm crying man. I'm just like, yeah, Ed, my life's over. Man, my life is over. And he looks at me he's like, oh, your life's not over, he goes, it's changed, he goes it over, he goes, it's changed, he goes, it's definitely changed, but he goes, it's not over. You know, and, uh, you know I took that to heart and you know I mean, um, we, my life didn't come together right, right, quickly after that.
Speaker 2:You know, I was still didn't learn, I was still drinking and driving. You know, still, even after that, you know, without my license and, and me and my wife were separated, my kids weren't talking to me. You know, um, and I was like I said I was, I was pretty much just a mess. And, uh, one day I was, I stopped at walmart. You know, I was gonna get some beer, I was drinking, I uh, and I stopped by there to get me a couple more, a couple more, uh, I used to drink those three packs, you know, those 24-ounce three packs. Oh, yeah, modelas, I would slam those Buzzleizers. I was not a sipper, I was a chugger, you know.
Speaker 2:And I stopped in there to get another one of those little three packs. And I was walking down the aisle of Walmart and a kid taps me on the back. I was walking by and I turned around and you know he didn't know who I was when he tapped me on the shoulder. But when I turned around I actually knew who the kid was, you know, and I said, hey, anthony, what's going on? He was like oh Mike, how you doing he goes. You know, we're just doing a little ministry right now. You know he was going oh Mike, how you doing he goes. You know, we're just doing a little ministry right now.
Speaker 2:You know, he was going to a Christian college down south, you know, and he was visiting his parents that weekend. He goes, we're just praying for people, man, and I have a list of people here that I wrote down that I was going to pray for and I was looking for somebody with a white T-shirt on and I had a white T-shirt on, you know. So that's why he tapped me. So he goes, you mind, if we pray for you and I'm like man, absolutely Go for us. I need a quick drink. I'm a mess man and he prayed for me right there in front of the cash registers. You know, and I didn't even think much of it, you know, I didn't think anything of it.
Speaker 1:So did you have a Christian background before that? But? And then?
Speaker 2:So did you have a Christian background before that? Or? You know, I grew up. My family's been Christian, you know, and. But I was running from God, you know. You know I, like most kids, you know you want to live your life. You know you feel like you're losing out if you're, if you're serving God or you're a Christian, you feel like you're losing out. You know you're not getting to enjoy your youth or whatever. So, even though I was way past my youth, I was still running from God. I was running from God, but I was miserable. Like I said, I was miserable. My life was a mess.
Speaker 2:I was just upside down and after this kid prayed for me, like I said, I didn't even think much of it, I was just, you know, just went about my day. I didn't even get the beer after all. I walked out. And then, a couple weeks later, my wife. You know we still talked, but we weren't together, we were separated. I was living at my sister's house in a different town, you know, and she's talked about that kid, anthony. She's like. You know, he gave a testimony at church, you know, I wish he would have been there. He just feels like God's been using him to pray for people you know and I'm like you know. Then I was, like you know. He prayed for me a couple weeks ago and I haven't drank since you know. So I haven't drank and I haven't drank since that day.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And that's been almost 10 years, wow, you know, just like that and I didn't even realize it. But when I finally realized it I was like, oh my God, I'm free.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm free. Yeah, I'm like what the heck I mean? Because I mean if I passed by a store I would pull in something to drink. That was just what I did.
Speaker 2:That's part of the routine man, that was just normal. If I had money in my pocket, I had a beer between my legs and I was cruising around. I mean, that was just part of my life. I didn't for probably 35 years, you know. I did that and when I finally realized I'm free, I'm like, oh my God, I'm free, I'm free. I'm like, oh my God, I'm free, oh my Lord, I cried, man, I'm like, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2:You know, and since then everything's just been. I've been just so grateful, man. I mean I feel like I was given a new lease on life, you know that's why. Well, after I lost my job, that's when Kenny offered me, you know, said hey, man, I know you're going through some stuff, you know I didn't have a job at the time. He's like I got some, a couple markets, man, if you'd like to. So he actually presented it to me and the rest is history.
Speaker 2:It's been such a beautiful thing and I always think back when I told my brother man, my life is over. To where I'm at now, I'm like man, only something God could write out, because I'm way more happy. I've met some amazing people, and Santa Cruz is such a beautiful community it really is. I don't know the ins and outs of it, just the people that come before me on a weekly basis. And I've met some some beautiful people. I mean some amazing people, you know, and I've just been able to share my life with them. And just you know, I basically come down here just to spread some love, man, because I'm so grateful for it, for what God did in my life, you know, and I pray all the my three-hour drive down here in the morning is just one long prayer Lord, help me to be a light, help me to be a light, help me to bless somebody's day, help me.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know what people come to my booth, what they're going through, you know, but I don't want them to leave my booth worse than they came. I said, if they're going to leave my booth, I want them to leave with a smile. I want them to leave, you know, feeling better. You know I don't want to add to their grief because you know people. You know life's rough. People are going through things. Everybody's going through something, you know, and I don't want to add to that. I want to try and lift the burden off them when they leave, you know. So I pray, lord, let me be a light. Just let me shine. Let me shine for you, let me speak some truth, some hope, some love into somebody you know, just to lift them up you know, and he's allowed me to, he's put people before me, I mean in front of me, that they'll open up.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. They'll open up, you know, and I'm like, well, thank you Lord, and I pull them to the side and say a prayer for them. You know, and it does me good man, it lifts my spirit up. You know, I'm hoping it lifts their spirit up, but I'm just thankful that I'm able to be able to speak into their life, you know, and brighten their day up, or whatever it is that I'm able to do. You know, I mean, it's really a blessing to me and you know. So that's basically my short version of what brings me here you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, let's you know. I think you provided a really good segue to you know this thing that I've been trying to get across in the podcast about you know Santa Cruz is this really unique spot and you know, about three or four podcasts ago, a guy named Lucas, who runs a swim program here and owns a gym, was in our conversation. We were talking about how it takes a real choice to be here. And you know there are a lot of people who visit but they don't know what it's like to be here until you're here. And once you're here, there's this thing that you decide, like whether you love it or you hate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, but it is this weird choice that people make when they get here. What was that choice for you Like? Was it just that you know this was the market that was offered to you and you just grew to love the place and you just grew to love the place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, growing up, you know, when you live in the Valley, you tend to go to Pismo, you know Pismo's the place because it's a little closer, you know, than Santa Cruz. So I didn't really have a lot of, you know, didn't really come to Santa Cruz a lot, you know, I might have been to the Boardwalk, you know, a couple times, but I never really spent a lot of time in Santa Cruz, you know. But once I started coming to the markets and I started spending a lot more time here, I just I learned to love this. I mean, it is a beautiful place. Like I said, I don't know the history of it, I just know what I see, you know, and that's what I speak to. And it's a beautiful place, it's a loving place, it really is.
Speaker 2:You know, the people that I've interacted with are very kind, open. You know I try not to focus. I might have you know. Of course you have your. You know I try not to focus. I might have, you know. Of course you have your. You know you got your moments, you got your moments here and there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's life though, you know, but for the most part, the community itself, it's just a beautiful place, you know. I mean, I'm very thankful that I've been allowed to. You know, just come and do what I do here. You know what I mean and I don't feel like I do much. I just, like I said, I feel like I just come down here and speak to friends all day long. You know, I just happen to sell fruit to them, you know.
Speaker 2:But I've made so many friends, like the couple that I stay with. Just going back to what we were talking about before, uh, the couple that I stay with, I met them at the market, you know, and I don't I'm not going to say names or anything, but um, but when I first met them, um, they both, they both had a little drinking problem themselves, you know. And uh, through over time, you know, this is when I was no longer drinking, I was pretty much free, but I started praying for them. They opened their house up to me and I would go by there and I would pray for them, pray for the house, and they quit drinking.
Speaker 2:So I got to see a transformation from them to where they are now and it was amazing, you know, to see that happen. You know I was just thankful that I was able to be part of that as well. You know I was like wow, you know it just felt amazing because they become really Ron now. She passed away, but Ron's been such a good friend of mine, you know, and I'm very thankful that I've got to know him. It's good yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, well, you know it's. You know that this is. This is where I have to push my pastor chops down a little bit, but, but you know what I'm really enjoying about hearing you but you know what I'm really enjoying about hearing you just talking about being yourself is this simple thing of you just being you and how transformative it can be for others. And you know, as I expressed at the beginning of the podcast, I think there's a lot of life that's being missed in our busyness or staring at our phones or whatever else. You know we can add excuses to it, but the bottom line is that you know we aren't spending the kind of time that we used to with people just being with each other, and how much that secures people, including ourselves. That that you know in a little bit that I shared ourselves. That you know in the little bit that I shared with you, that you know how I felt so lost. You know I'm a person who's around lots and hundreds of people every week, but still felt alone.
Speaker 1:you know, and you know how easy that can happen. And you know, I do think things have changed. I don't believe that all of this isn't new. You know, history does repeat itself in some way, but there's something very different about what's going on.
Speaker 1:But you know, what I wanted my listeners to hear is this reality I didn't know what you were going to say, but this is really what I'm trying to get across is that people are important Absolutely. And you're listening to a conversation of two people who don't know each other at all, and the joy that I feel just hearing your story, however it is, you're telling it being present in the person that you are. You're sitting with me and you know things happen when we allow ourselves just a little bit of room to be with people. You know, not that we would ever go and go watch a ball game or anything like that or do all the other stuff, but just this reality that we need each other. And you know I I seriously doubt, given your disposition, because you don't strike me as a person that that would browbeat anybody.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely about any of it, that you, just being you, absolutely allowed space for people to quit something that was tormenting them. Just by you being present, absolutely not. You know, I've not that it's time I've been in presence I've always wondered that myself.
Speaker 2:You know, I've always that's been one of my things. I've always wondered if you could make a friend just out of the blue. You know, because it's amazing and I've from my experience it's amazing how many people are lonely and do feel alone. You know they come to and you know, you know you're a, you do hair, so you're sort of like a therapist as well. You know people open up to you. You know, and and at the market people come and and they, they open up. You know, once you get to know them, they open up to you and and you you sense how some people are, are very lonely, you know, and and it's, it's sad with the billions of people in the world that you could still feel alone, you know.
Speaker 2:So that's why I try and be a friend to everybody. You know I don't care who you are man, I don't know rich, poor. When you come before me, you're just like anybody else, you know, and I treat everybody the same. You know that's just the way I am. You know, I mean, and I treat you, I treat everybody the same. You know, that's, that's just the way I am, you know. I just um, I want everybody to, to feel welcome, feel, feel uh, uh, worth, you know, worth something. Everybody has purpose, everybody has meaning, you know, and, um, you know, I'm very blessed. I I look at somebody and whatever the situation they're in, I always look that could easily be me. I could easily be in that situation. I mean, I'm no different than them, I'm no more special than anybody. So I always try and treat people the same, regardless of who you are. That doesn't have anything to do with me treating you any differently. I just try and be the best person that I can be me treating you any differently, you know, I mean I just try and be the best person that I can be, you know, and it's it's actually been very awesome to to make the friends that I've.
Speaker 2:I've made, you know, I mean a lot of the people that I've become friends with. I would have never you know, it would have never happened had I not started coming down here doing these farmer's markets. You know, I would have never met a lot of people. I would have never met a lot of people. I would have never met you. So it's really special and I cherish the friendships that I've made. I play golf with some people. I went mountain biking with some people. I go to dinner, I go to lunch with a lot of my customers because I consider them friends.
Speaker 2:So, going back to, I've always wondered if you could make a friend just out of the blue, somebody that you didn't grow up with, somebody that you didn't meet through any certain means. And you can actually. You know, and I've made quite a few friends that I would have never made had I not started doing what I do and they've become very cherished friendships doing what I do and they become very cherished friendships. I really look forward to coming and spending time with them and just catching up. On a weekly basis I get to come down here and I look forward to seeing certain faces. Hey, how are you doing? How's your week going? You doing all right. What's new At the market? They'll bring family to meet, meet me. You know from when they're visiting from different states or wherever.
Speaker 1:These are the things that I watch. You know, this is, this is what I've been watching. You know, is that you know? At least for me, you know again because I'm comfortable, I'm confident moving through. I know many of the vendors there. I'm going to be in a bunch of trouble with dirty girl because joe's a really good friend of mine. I pulled you on before him, you know.
Speaker 1:But sorry no, no, don't wait, joe loves me. But you know, you know I, I guess, even in this conversation, you know with my heart, for what I'm trying to do with the podcast is just to capture this reality that that, uh, even though people might feel like strangers, that they're maybe not, you know not not their lifestyles are all as intertwined as we might want them to be.
Speaker 1:And not that you or I could meet each other's needs, you know, in a deep friendship level or anything like that, but just that reality that that there are people around us that that will love us in ways that that maybe not others could. And you know in, and you know again. I've watched you with a particular measure of passion just talking about food. Yeah right, what's coming off a tree? Like these are the things that I'm looking at. Like that guy really thinks this fruit is really good oh yeah, I think I want to try that fruit, like, like, but you know, like, let me joke around about it.
Speaker 1:But like, this is me who's like hard-edged about like no, I get the fruit from margarita. You know all this stuff. But just what was in your eyes about like no, my stuff is good, man, try it or don't try it, don't care I know it's good, you know, I know it's good, like you know we took it home. It's like, yeah, it's, it's good. I remember this. It's been, you know, 30 years since I've had this, but and I want I want people to to to enjoy, have good fruit.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean I want them to enjoy tasty fruit, you know, and sometimes they'll ask me what's good, what's not, you know, and I'll say, you know those are, yeah, they're all right. You know, I mean not my favorite, that one right there. I mean, even if I don't really like anything on the table, I'm not gonna say, uh, oh, man, that's delicious, or that's just. I'm gonna tell them look, it's all right this week, you know, I mean it's been better. Yeah, I don't want to lie to anybody because I want them to get the best.
Speaker 2:Even in the morning, when I'm setting up and I'm piling the tables up, I'll try and put what I think is going to be the best tasting food, just from looks and my experience, and I'll try and place them on top because I want everybody, the first people, to get there to get the best. And as the day goes on, I'm trying to always put the best stuff because I want you to get good stuff. So I make sure I'm like put the best tasting, whatever you think is the best tasting, just put it where they grab it. I don't want them to get anything that doesn't taste good. What I don't think is going to taste good you can more or less.
Speaker 2:Look at fruit and say the bigger ones. I don't really like the big fruit because I feel like it's going to be a little more sort of watered down. So I tell them look, if you get the medium size or the small ones, I feel like the flavor is a little more concentrated. It's just me, I mean. But I'll recommend you know stuff that I think that they're going to get the best tasting, because that's what I want you know.
Speaker 1:So what does it? You know? This has been a curiosity to me, and I've never sat with a farmer a farmer farmer, you know, or someone who's supplying food. What does it mean to you to be providing actual nourishment to humans?
Speaker 2:well, it's awesome to be able to come down here. So, particularly because I've been paying attention the last you know few years I've actually been paying attention to to ingredients in in just processed food and just different things, man, I'm I'm like, wow, you know, I mean it's. It's amazing, some of the stuff that we're eating. You know what I mean and I know that. I know that the fruit that we, that we grow, is is, you know, I mean it's can't get much any more safe. You know what I mean. It's, like I said, it's organic, it's he, kenny's a great farmer and it's and I know it's healthy for you, especially this time of year, you know, when you need some vitamin c. We got the, we have the oranges. I'm like, look, that's, that's uh, prime stuff right there. If you, if you want to fight, you're not going to be getting scurvy this month, you know, yeah, but uh, you had a batch of plums.
Speaker 1:I think it was July. Actually it was a later bloom. Oh yeah, the green ones, or the. There were green ones, there was a few that was like, oh, plums again. Again, I'm a plum snob because I used to have the best plum tree in Santa Cruz.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:My dad cut it down.
Speaker 2:Oh boy.
Speaker 1:Didn't listen to my mom. She was like I need you to cut that crab apple tree down. That didn't go over, well, but uh, you know so. So my heart's been broken since that moment about plums. But uh, but yeah, those plums were just fantastic.
Speaker 2:Emerald buttes, the green emerald buttes at the end of the season, those are. Those are my favorite from all the plums you grow.
Speaker 1:They At the end of the season. Those are my favorite From all the plums you grow. They're good. Yeah, that's great. Well, you know to kind of. A last question, a last sequence. You know what drives you. You know what are the things that you know. You're not 15 anymore. Your kids are an age. You probably feel right now anymore your kids are an age.
Speaker 1:You probably feel right now? Um, you know what, what's the thing that really gets you up in the morning? Now you know because I do want to paint a picture for, for, for what michael does that you know the you either got to be real passionate or real checked out to do the three hour drive. You know, I know the roads, I drive them to do it, how you do it. You know, on a weekly basis there's a tenacity inside of you and you know, I know, that you have your routine, you know what you listen to and all that kind of thing. But what is that deep motivation to come provide for a community like this?
Speaker 2:well, that's it. I mean there's people that are very, very um dedicated to, to them. I mean that's where they the super supermarkets, the farmer's market, that's where they get their their food. You know, if you don't show up, there's times I won't, you know, I'll miss, for whatever reason. And they're like, where were you? You know, I I came last week and I had to go to. I had to go to the store and buy the fruit. It wasn't the same.
Speaker 2:You know, and and and you uh see how passionate some people are about about getting. You know, uh, farm, fresh tree Fruit and and vine, ripe vegetables and whatever. You know that they're, they're, the the farmer's market is is like a, like a sanctuary to some people. You know what I mean. They, they, they, that's, that's their, their place, where they, where they feel fulfilled. You know, and and I that gets me wanting to. I hate to miss, you know, because I'm like man, if I miss, they're going to show up and I'm not going to be there. You know when they're relying on me to be there, you know. So it's a commitment that you make, you know, and you know rain look at, I'm soaking right now, I was soaking wet today.
Speaker 2:But you know what? I'm glad that I was there, because a lot of people came out, you know, and I figured, hey, if you would have missed, then they would have showed up and you would. You know what a disappointment that would have been, you know. I mean, they showed up and you didn't show up, you know. So it's definitely a commitment but it's worth it because you know, people show up. I've been out there in storms I mean literal storms and people will come out it like, wow, man, you know, and and they they'll be telling me oh, thank you for coming, I appreciate you for coming out here and I'm like man, thank you for coming well, I mean my wife and I joke, you know, when it's raining and like, do we want to go today?
Speaker 1:I'm like, look, people are going to be there. It's a bunch of hippies here like we're going to go get organic food for sure. Trust me it might not be a lot of people outside, but everybody's coming to get food, because that that's yeah, we do.
Speaker 2:They're they're passionate about, about the market. You know, and and it's very understandable, like I said, I've been watching, uh, the last few years, what I eat, you know, and I'm, and I, I'm really getting a real clear picture of you know what it really is a lot better. I didn't even realize that all those years I was on the opposite side of it, you know, I mean, even though I worked for the company before the wax and fungicide company, I didn't really realize that I was the guy, you were that guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was that guy, you know. Yeah, I was that guy that was applying all the waxes and fungicides and all that stuff on the fruit. That's, you know, probably not the best stuff for you?
Speaker 1:Probably not that good to be in your body. Yeah for sure. You know. Those were all funny. So now I'm like Monsanto and all these guys.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, now I'm like you know what I get it. Now I get it. You know, before it was just it was a job. All right. Now I understand why the market's such an important thing to them because they care about what they're eating. So that drives me to get up and come down here and I love it. I mean, I love being able to come down here and people are very appreciative. They are so appreciative, man. They tell me thank you all the time. And I'm like man, thank you.
Speaker 2:It doesn't do me any good to come out here if you don't show up, you know. But they do show up, regardless of what the weather is. You know the people will come out there and it's amazing. But that's what gets me going. You know, I hate to disappoint people. I don't want to disappoint them, you know. And I know they look forward to it. And, um, now, you know I, I have, you know I, I'm thankful that they're, that they shop with me, because you know they have choices. They could, they can shop anywhere they want, but you know they look forward to me coming. So I don't want to disappoint them and not show up, you know. So that's what, that's what I make myself say you know we're going, man, we're going, regardless of what the weather looks like. There's sometimes I'm out there going. Whew, what am I doing out here?
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially the winds over 152 trying to get over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm hanging on to my tarp, I'm hanging on to my canopy, trying to keep from flying away.
Speaker 1:Anybody who's been past San Luis Reservoir in a box truck too.
Speaker 2:That's a feet to behold there a yeah it'll move you across the road to be old there, it'll definitely move you across the lane if if you weren't a praying person. You are, yeah yeah, for sure, for sure, oh man, michael.
Speaker 1:Well, listen, uh, you know, as we close here, I I just really want to thank you on behalf of the community for what you do. You know you really have been a joy to watch. It's been. I mean, thank you for sitting with me. I know that that whole experience must have been a little bit weird, so thank you for taking the risk to sit down and and and speak with me about this, but I so appreciate you, not just for what you're doing for us, but for the heart that you have for Santa Cruz, cruz and and you know it's, you know we we talk about. You know the world being like this tapestry, and you know that there's different yarns, but there's also, there's also string in the yarns, though, too, there's pieces of inside of the fabric that we don't always see and we skip over, we presume all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:And and thank you for allowing me not to presume and to see the little piece that you are in this place. That makes it feel like home to me. It makes me feel comfortable and confident living here, knowing that other people who don't even get to live here love this place as much as I do. So thank you for serving our community. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:I love you in a strange way, you know, not a strange way but you know, just in this, like this love that really is in the room that sits on the other side of me, that I get to be in. Your love for us is really a privilege. So thanks for sitting with me.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, you know I'm going to cue the music. Michael, Thanks again. You have a good day. God bless you all. Talk to you later. I appreciate it, Thank you.