Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Mike Howard talking ....
Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Episode 51: From Baseball to Big Waves: Jack Akrop's Evolution Into The Art of Life
When Jack Akrop paddles out at Mavericks or charges massive waves at Jaws, he's drawing on lessons learned from a lifetime spent in and around Santa Cruz waters. But his path to becoming a respected big wave surfer wasn't the typical grom-to-pro pipeline story we often celebrate.
As Jack reveals in this vulnerable conversation, he started as "a boogie boarder at the bottom of the totem pole" who was actually terrified of the ocean. His journey weaves through baseball fields at Bellarmine High School, soccer pitches, lacrosse fields, and eventually back to the water where he found his true purpose. Along the way, a pivotal art teacher helped him recognize that his passion for surfing and snowboarding wasn't just recreation – it was a legitimate form of contemporary art and personal expression.
The discussion takes unexpected turns as Jack opens up about his struggles with depression, ADHD diagnosis, and finding healing through giving back to others. His recent big wave expeditions to Portugal, Ireland, Hawaii, and Mavericks – including some spectacular wipeouts that gained significant media attention – taught him valuable lessons about preparation, intentionality, and accepting failure as part of growth.
What emerges most powerfully from this conversation is Jack's commitment to sharing ocean knowledge through his business, Central Coast Waterman. In an era where increased beach access has created new safety challenges, his mission to educate both kids and adults about proper ocean safety and surfing etiquette serves a vital community need.
Whether you're a surfer, a parent considering water sports for your child, or simply someone interested in how finding purpose can transform mental health, Jack's story offers inspiration and practical wisdom about the healing power of the ocean and the fulfillment that comes from helping others experience it safely.
Welcome to the Unpacked in Santa Cruz podcast. I'm your host, Michael Howard, Making the feckless attempt at normalcy here in Santa Cruz, California, celebrating the things that are great about this place, the people that are wonderful, and it is sponsored by Santa Cruz Vibes Magazine, your quarterly to-go-to. If you want to find out about the things that go on here in Santa Cruz, you can also check out their website, of which you will find my podcast. But you've already found my podcast because you're listening to it. It's also sponsored by Pointside Beach Shack. It's a place to go to if you're holding a small event here in Santa Cruz. They can host about 50 people or more, but you can check them out at Pointside Beach Shack on the interweb.
Speaker 1:But today I am sitting here with somebody we actually don't know each other really well. We've seen each other for years. I admire the guy. We see him out in the water all the time or I used to see him out in the water all the time when I was surfing a lot more. But he's just a kid that I've seen grow up. He's got some big huevos on big huevos and anyways, I get to sit here today and talk with Jack Acrop, who has been spending some time going over the falls this season. From what I hear, Jack.
Speaker 2:Jack, welcome to the show, Glad I have. Thanks for having me, yeah.
Speaker 1:Thanks for the great introduction. That was very nice yeah.
Speaker 2:We started running each other at jujitsu.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, getting to know each other a little bit better. Yeah, yeah, we did the jujitsu stuff for a little bit, but then, uh, are you training still?
Speaker 2:no, I haven't been training no, I don't feel like getting injured yet exactly find other ways to get injured. Why?
Speaker 1:it's so fun to be injured all the time. Well, I I remember you, uh, ponying up on the lefts, sir Pete, when you were pretty young, and so that was kind of the first time I saw you or noticed you, because at the time you were pretty young to be deciding to go left and calling me off of waves, and I appreciated that. So we haven't had this conversation yet.
Speaker 2:We haven't had this conversation, yeah, but it's like oh, this kid's going.
Speaker 1:He's going Good, good, so I always. He's going Good, good, so I always love the commitment. But why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? Yeah, this is your time to shoot. There you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I grew up here in Santa Cruz and started doing junior lifeguards at a pretty young age, around, I guess, when they started at six. I started doing junior lifeguards at a pretty young age, I guess when they started at six. And yeah, I was always super nervous of the ocean, which is always, you know, funny to tell people. Yeah, but I think it was a big reason for starting the organization that I did. And yeah, I just grew up like any other kid in Santa Cruz going to the beach skim boarding down at privates boogie boarding. I was super into big boogie boarding for a long time and um met my best friend, quinn, who, uh, you know, kind of helped me get past that fear of the ocean and, you know, just slowly started, you know, progressing into um. I guess I always was, was pretty fond of the more powerful surf.
Speaker 2:That's why boogie boarding kind of appealed to me going to its and getting thrashed around demoed in the shore break, but I kind of took, I guess, a well-rounded approach. I always loved surfing, but I was doing lots of other sports at the time. I played soccer, I did baseball. I was super into baseball. What league did you play in for baseball? I played in Capitola Soquel.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those guys, those guys, I was Santa Cruz Little League guy, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:What year were you playing just?
Speaker 2:out of curiosity. What year was I playing? So that would have been born in 91.
Speaker 1:So 2000. So you're a little bit older than Caleb, yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 2:Okay, so 2000 to 2003. Yeah, I missed you Cause you're you're coaching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I coached for 15 years and I just picked it up again here at live up little league. I did a triple a team last year with a friend of mine and now we got awesome. We got the monster yankees this year. I got four ponies, bro. Really four might make a toc run, no way. Oh yeah, let's go. I got all these kids touching 60 already, so we're gonna, I think I got a couple.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna get him up up in the upper 60s. Come check out a game that's pretty fun. Sorry, sorry, to disrupt the flow there?
Speaker 2:Not at all, man. Baseball was a big part of my life for a long time, from 9 until I played all the way through high school, and that was kind of the focus for a long time. I played travel soccer with my best friend, anthony growing up and then decided at one point that baseball was the route I was going to take. Did you play middle? I played second and shortstop Shortstop and then I got demoted to second base. That is the full demotion.
Speaker 1:Spencer Frazier took my shortstop and you didn't get center field, which is the premier position.
Speaker 2:Spencer's just a shortstop.
Speaker 1:Yes, for all of you who are in Little League, center field is the premier position, just so you know. That's good to know.
Speaker 2:That catcher right. You've got to be quick. Center field Cover a lot of ground.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've got to cover a lot of ground. Those are the quick shortstops. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, the little secrets in baseball. Little secrets yeah, and the and the catchers were all former pitchers and, uh, they all throw 100 miles an hour, which is crazy. It's yeah, anyways go, yeah, absolutely stuck in baseball world there and I'm trapped in baseball. It's league, so I'm like more baseball yeah.
Speaker 2:So I ended up, um know, I fell in love with baseball and my cousin went to Bellarmine over in San Jose, all boys Catholic school.
Speaker 1:So that's where.
Speaker 2:I ended up for freshman and sophomore year so took quite a bit of time off the ocean.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I was commuting over the hill every day and by the time I got back in the wintertime it was already dark.
Speaker 1:Okay, so audience, you wouldn't know this, but that Jack was playing for bellarmine is a really big deal. So you played baseball and you played for bellarmine. Came back to socal and you didn't get part of the cool guy because you didn't play there the first two years.
Speaker 2:So that's probably what happened to you your devotion to second base well, funny enough, I actually came back and Mitch Meyer was the coach legendary Mitch, yeah. Yeah, you know, favorite baseball coach and one of the best mentors in my life. Oh good, you know playing for him. And they wouldn't let me play junior year because they said they were which was kind of silly like to come back to Soquel and not be able to play. But there was something with recruiting or something like that and there was no recruiting going on.
Speaker 2:I just didn't want to go over the hill anymore and I wanted to serve.
Speaker 1:So there was no recruiting. I'm curious who else they had recruited before you, where they were being highlighted for recruiting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's most likely the situation for recruiting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's, that's most likely. The situation is that they they had the mic mic mic. Uh, they had the microscope on the program, probably at the time because of that active recruiting that all those coaches do. Yeah, so, when you, when you transfer, you have to take a year off. If it wasn't for the purpose of, probably, why you? I just want to be home, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not. I'm not going to the team, I just want to be home. I don't want to be in the car seven days a week.
Speaker 2:But that ended up being really cool because that gave me a year to explore some other sports. So I ended up playing lacrosse that year. That was the first year that lacrosse came to Soquel and, man, I tell you that was a, that was an experience, because nobody on the team there was maybe one person on the team that actually knew how to play lacrosse. The rest were just football players with sticks yeah, I wanted to just kill each other so lacrosse didn't last very long, especially being pretty small and like being in, you know, on the offense, trying to go and score and then just getting absolutely decked by you know there was no technique.
Speaker 1:It was just like I have a six foot pole. You're not going to get anywhere near me and I'm going to so. So I got to throw a quick story in here because you know Aiden, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Aiden at that point is starting to get looks, you know, and he goes to decide to show up to the lacrosse field his sophomore year, because he's just trying every sport, whatever's off season from water polo, because the guy was always playing two sports. But he's telling me how much fun he's having. I finally go to watch a game of lacrosse and I'm like the parents are a freaking nightmare. They're just like they're in the stands yelling just kill him, Kill him. And so Aiden gets filleted by this giant defender. You know, he's just knocked and I'm like did you just separate your shoulder? Like you can't do this. So I go to the lacrosse coach after coach after. I'm like so my son's a pretty good player. And he goes yeah, he's really good. He's so athletic in this. And I'm like so can he get a scholarship from this sport? He goes, well, he's not that good.
Speaker 2:I'm like he's off the team this is gonna hinder his water polo.
Speaker 1:He's done yeah, yeah, no, no, we're not doing this, because they were just laying them out the whole game. He loved it. He loved it then what he played soccer next and he was laying guys out. It was hilarious. That's awesome, just if you want to know my middle son's personality that's that water polo mentality. Yeah, so good, go ahead.
Speaker 2:You played the cross yeah, so I played the cross and then I ended up running track that that year as well. So, um, and then I think I did track and soccer that year. So, yeah, it was actually yeah, good experience.
Speaker 2:It was a good experience and I definitely, you know, um, you know, growing up I kind of wished I would have you know. Now, looking back, you know, I wish I would have had more specialty in some regards to maybe starting surfing earlier, to really get on that trajectory. But I teach kids now in my program that I think early specialization I mean they've shown that early specialization is not necessarily the best, the best route to take for sports. You know, getting getting a well-rounded, you know background, playing this sport, that sport, and they all kind of work together. So, yeah, so I, looking back, I had a lot, of, a lot of good experiences in other, in other sports, which was, you know, I cherish those moments playing team sports and yeah so yeah, no, I talk about this a lot off mic, but I am very much against specialty sports until really someone's like 16.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, but the recruiting process and how it's affected, every sport is just it's a nightmare. And when, when I, I mean I quit coaching little league, the last two years the radar guns were showing up at little league and you're like, yeah, you're like this is little league, man, it's little league, you know. You know, granted, they're club kids and all that kind of stuff. But like, give me a break. You know this kid's 11 or 12, like you're not going to see anything. You know, especially from this town, you don't know when they're going to start picking up other things. You don't know if they're going to start smoking weed or whatever else.
Speaker 1:It's a pretty tough town to be pulling a radar gun out in front of a 12-year-old. You don't know what the junior high school cycle is going to be, to be making that kind of investment, that kind of investment. You know there are certainly a lot of uh, uh surfers that might have made the tour, that have come through town, that didn't make it past high school. You know, just because the the, the connections you know on that side here. So you know, I already got to see it in surfing like, hey, that's a little bit of a dangerous prospect to be looking so young, yeah, at these guys who are really talented. You know, but you still got to make it through town Like it's not easy and if you're giving them money and giving them all the sponsorship stuff, it comes with things.
Speaker 1:You know, it comes with parties and all that kind of stuff. So you know, on the athletic side, that downward pressure, you know we just bore witness to an injury on a 12-year-old, just had a Tommy John happen and you're like 12. Tommy John at 12. Tommy John at 12.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's slot training.
Speaker 1:You know it's slot training at the pitching coaches and you're like why are you slot training with a 12-year-old? I just don't get it. But here I am, the guy who had their kids in the water polo pool at 12, so I don't get to say too much. Their shoulders and hips hurt. Still For the record. I believe children should play all sports, whether they play them well or not. Play them all you know. Don't let the coaches get you down. Just keep going and doing and don't listen to them. Absolutely Play.
Speaker 2:You're not getting a scholarship, trust me, and if you do, it's because you played all the sports there was one sport I wish I would have played, though, was water polo, just because it just the um, you know the link to to surfing, getting super strong in the water, and all the water polo players were were the best surfers you know, or at least the strongest.
Speaker 1:Strongest, the ones that got all the waves, like it's hilarious, yeah, no, it's. You know when, when water polo really showed up, uh, you know, at socal and those guys all surfed. I, I mean, it doesn't not necessarily talented, but you're not going to out paddle them and you're not going to out fight them out in the water either.
Speaker 2:No, you're getting drowned grab your head, hold your in the water.
Speaker 1:Yes, swimmy to monterey their eyes always light up because they're always nice too out in the water. That was funny. They're always nice just catching a lot of waves and someone lights them up and they just smile. They're like oh cool, we're going for a swim. This guy doesn't know who I am. Here it goes. Yeah, so SoCo high grad. Did you go to college at all?
Speaker 2:I went to Cabrillo for a couple of years and I did the EMT course, I did fire science for a bit, then I did just kind of the basic general education. I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. You know, definitely firefighting and you know lifeguarding was kind of what my dad wanted me to do and I definitely saw a big allure in that. I think it's an amazing career path and, you know, allows for being able to surf and do all these things and I think the most the.
Speaker 2:I ended up taking a class contemporary art and I was kind of going through some some you know issues of identity at the at that point, cause what I wanted to do is I wanted to surf. I mean, I kind of make it, made the decision at 17 that I wanted to be a professional surfer, which was a crazy thought because you know there was all these kids that had been surfing contests since they were seven and I was a boogie boarder and I, you know, was playing other sports and went over to San Jose. So it was kind of a. But you know you make a decision and it's hard to go back on that.
Speaker 2:It's like no this is what I want to do, and so I was kind of struggling because with my own doubts, and then there were some doubts with my parents, of like, you didn't start young enough, so I don't think that's probably the career path for you. So let's go to college, let's try to figure some stuff out. I ended up taking a contemporary art class with a teacher, dina Scopatoni, who ended up being a great mentor of mine, and I was, um, she had us write, she had us do a. Um, I think there was. We read some article and we had to write a, write something down about it, and I remember um, not doing the homework. So the next day I come to the test and I've got to write the. You know the spacing on the word right now, but whatever review of what, we wrote.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, yeah, yeah, and, and I hadn't done the homework, so I left class, completely, completely left class, and I thought I was a failure and you know I couldn't, couldn't do anything right. And um, I got an email from her later that night and she said hey, I just wanted to check in with you and make sure that you know you're doing all right. And um, you know you're not, you know you're not cut out of class, like if you want to come back and and redo the test, like that's, that's totally fine, which was, you know, totally different for me. Because, you know, having gone to Bellarmine and you know, and having had some troubles at SoCal, you know, I thought you know, if you're not A+, then you're cut.
Speaker 1:You're nothing, you know, yeah, no child left behind, all children, all boys left behind.
Speaker 2:Actually, so so I came back to class and, um, that very next day she showed a video, a snowboarding video, and you know I thought, well, this is weird. You know contemporary art. I was thinking, you know painting and this, that and the other, and she showed us this snowboarding video and I was really heavily into snowboarding at the time and you know she talked about. You know, this is contemporary art, this is people out in the streets, you know, risking their lives, hitting these giant handrails with a film or making contemporary art.
Speaker 2:And that was a moment in my life where I was like, wow, this is like I could actually do this. Like this is something I could do. You know, whether it makes money or or not, this is something I could do. You know, whether it makes money or not, this is something I could focus my life and career path over. And it kind of gave me just a bit of a nudge forward. Like, okay, maybe, you know, trying to be a professional surfer isn't, you know, the wrong path after all, off the table? Yeah, yeah. So I've definitely taken a bit of a spin around. You know I didn't get all the sponsors and that, but you know, figuring out how to be an entrepreneur and and be able to pursue that thing. So thank you, dina, for that. That was pretty amazing Having somebody be like, no, this is okay, like you don't have to go the college route and get this degree and get that degree, or do you know I?
Speaker 2:think there's so much of that. You know there's one, well, one route. This is how you have to do it your particular age group because of no child left behind.
Speaker 1:when that was initiated, that really, yeah, that really changed the landscape in a not cool way. It it's um, you know I in in my lifetime I think that's the biggest hindrance that's ever happened to actually allowing real talent to flourish. You know, through the process of school and you know we're seeing the reflection of it now. You know, 25 years later, of the damage that it did and you know, in many ways, you know, know it's of no fault to to women, you know, but like college, like only 35 percent of males who apply for college get in now and and so whatever title nine brought which is great, that's's, of course, a necessary thing Whatever no Child Left Behind did in America then pushed things so far over the boundary that you know, when you're from a cortex, it's just, on average, going to develop two years slower than a female, and to sit down in a classroom and just hear verbal content being written on a chalkboard also is not the way generally most men learn because of the frontal cortex issue, and it becomes a complex thing. Then you know you've created this system where it's just there's questions and answers and if you don't understand the question correctly, you can't get to the right answer. And if the question is being taught to you verbally and then you have only one or two chances to see it in front of you, then it's a setup.
Speaker 1:So you know what it did and what it's doing to young men right now. You know what we're seeing as a pause with men. You know not maturing we're seeing as a pause with with men. You know not maturing fast enough. Well, they weren't allowed in the system anymore, not not the way it was set up. So you know it's been fairly devastating to to men, you know. I don't again, I don't want to demean at all in any way the women that have succeeded in this, because I think it's beautiful, but it's coming at an expense, like. It's a huge expense and you know we'll see how it ends up playing out. But you were that first group of like. If you got A, b, you were not going to that school.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So then it was kind of like I mean, what's the point? Yeah, why even be? Then it was kind of like what? I mean, what's the point, you know. Yeah, why? Why even be here if I'm not? If I'm, I knew I wasn't going to be an A plus student. I mean I wanted to. I wanted to be outside on the playground, like you know what I mean. I, some kids learn by doing, not by you telling them. To telling them something.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah Well this.
Speaker 2:This is how this works. Why don't you sit here for 20 minutes and they're rolling their eyes and yeah?
Speaker 1:It, it, it, it. It becomes self-evident when you coach youth sports that is necessary to have a very fatigued child in front of you before you start using words. You know it's a very simple prospect. You know, with one of my kids he was a little bit more active in the classroom and they wanted to have a serious discussion with me about you know all those things and I'm like, oh, you want a serious one. So I came in and said so, since we're going to be serious about it, like this whole room knows, because I got, you know, two administrators and two teachers in here about my son's problem. But since it's serious, let's go ahead and start having PE as the first period and maybe do it for two hours so we can be serious about the problem. Yeah, period and maybe do it for two hours so we can be serious about the problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know. But I know you're not going to allow for that because it was. It was, it was great school in junior high and I'm like so I know that you're not serious, because if you were serious you would know what the problem is and that you guys have to have fatigued young men before you're going to have their attention, like period, there's no next thing. Fatigued and fed, and then you have their full attention and they're like okay, meeting's over All the books closed. So if you're not going to get serious, I'm not going to get serious with you Because you guys aren't being serious about what's happening in the face of this no child left behind thing.
Speaker 1:So I put a couple administrators in the place, didn't help my kids' grades at all, but but, but, but that that pressure, you know I, I hate it. I think it's evil. You know that that it puts on one gender and you know all y'all females that are listening. Well, man up while manning up is working out first and then then get to it. So anyways, yeah, so I'm sorry that that happened to you, but here you are and you had a teacher who captured you. Why don't you share with the audience a little bit about that because we have a similar spot here. It was my first art teacher at Cabrillo that captured me.
Speaker 2:So what was it about that experience? I think what it was about that experience is that I was under this impression that there was this one path forward I needed to make it through college and then go on to a four-year college, and that's not even close to what I wanted to do. I mean, like I said, I was into snowboarding and surfing and I saw all these movies and I was like, I mean, there's people doing that, so obviously there's a you know. But everyone around me was telling me, no, that's that's, it's not that, it's, it's this. And I was like no, it's, it's not, that, it's yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like, my, my inclinations are going this direction. I just want to go snowboard, and film snowboarding and and surf and, you know, push myself in in that arena. Um, and, funny enough, the movie was called the arena and it was.
Speaker 2:You know, these people out there and, um, you know, doing making art, yeah, yeah I always thought art had to be, you know, on a wall, like a painting or this. I didn't realize that, like, what I was doing at that time was art and it was yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's, that's good, it was a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's. I think it's certainly part of the conversation that's gotten lost. You know, here in town, as it pertains to surfing, you know, because it is so competitive here. Yeah, you know, we don't. You know, there's there's a couple surfers here in town that we would consider artists, but they're also industry guys, you know. So, like there's a weird veil, you know cause, like there's other guys who do that stuff, but they're not getting the pictures. And so if it's art, then why is there only one person, you know, doing the art side, when there's a lot of artists who are doing it the same way and enjoying it and flowing with it and allowing, you know, something physical, that way that people are doing moving to be art. You know, I don't know that surfing has even allowed for that space yet, which is strange. I don't know that it sees itself that way. So it's weird to hear you say it out loud. It's like, oh yeah, I guess it is. I don't even think that way. So you've gotten to think that way.
Speaker 2:For how long? For how long? I mean, that was probably. I think I was 18 at that time. Okay, so that was yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you've had more than a decade to kind of live in this present, in this space. Yeah, tell me more about that space. I'm really curious now. How do you see board sports, all the things that you do in water? You know I'm sitting in front of a waterman, which is different than sitting in front of a surfer, let's just put it that way.
Speaker 1:You know, I do know about you that you see the various aspects that go into what it means to be in the water and do the things that happen in the ocean. How is it that that you see our relationship with water and that lens? That's you know, sitting in. You know you have a brain and your eyes are interpreting it different. You know what it is you're seeing. You know sitting in. You know you have a brain and your eyes are interpreting it different. You know what it is you're seeing. You know what are the various ways that that you see art Gosh, it could be the life-saving. You know there's a lot to it, you know. But you know I have men that view it the same way, although we haven't had this discussion, but I have a suspicion they see it the same, a similar way that you do I mean, I just like to think of the ocean as like a blank canvas, you know, and um, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean I love shortboarding more than anything. That's that's obviously my my first love is shortboarding. Unfortunately, you know, not every day is good for riding a shortboard and a lot of times you can end up actually being more upset getting out of the water than actually, you know, feeling good, don't look at me that way, no, but I think I think yeah.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people.
Speaker 2:can you know I'm always upset, yeah. I know it's hard and you just want to go and like, all right, I don't want to, you know, but it's understanding what the you know what the ocean is trying to present. That day, you know, and that's where you know the waterman stuff really started to come in. For me it's like if it's completely flat, you know, you can go for a prone paddle or you can go spearfish you know, I mean there's just endless, endless things you can do in the water, you know.
Speaker 2:So like looking at like you know, I always look at people like Kyle Lenny you know who just like, looks like he just has the most, the most fun out of anybody Just doing the thing and all the things.
Speaker 2:And I, I, I, you know, I never took it that far. I don't. I, you know I don't wing foil, I don't kite surf, I don't. You know there's I do, but you know, it's just understanding that there's. There's always something, you know, fun to be had in the water and and just in California in general, you know, I think that's why snowboarding has been so appealing to me too is, I mean, we have the mountains in Tahoe, we have the ocean here. I mean it's like an endless, an endless playground really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's, it's spectacular. I want to transition to the second spot, to actually stay in the seam of what we're talking about. You grew up here. What was it like for you to grow up here? You know, what did it feel like, with you kind of being a jock, you know, and not a surfer, and then entering into the surf scene in some way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like what does town represent to you? Like, are you, are you an east sider?
Speaker 2:east sider, east sider. So I grew up on court drive right next to pleasure pizza. So, um yeah, what is what does town represent to me? That's a. That's a loaded question, but I'm it's okay, just don't just don't name names. No, you know yeah no, I think I had a unique relationship to it because you know, having grown up here and being been a boogie boarder, you know I was on the bottom of the totem yeah, totally from the get-go.
Speaker 1:So it really gave me a good understanding of where I where you were, where I stood in the back, where you didn't stand in the yeah, exactly, until you stood exactly. And I spent a lot of time at you know sewers, you know in the back of your order, where you didn't stand in the back of your order yeah, exactly, until you stood Exactly.
Speaker 2:And I spent a lot of time at, you know, sewers, you know looking for those little slabby waves. So you know, first jetty, and then you know, transitioned to like sewer, peak left and then 26. And so you know, and I, you know, I feel like that was, I feel like I'm kind of the bottom end of that generation where it's still experienced, you know, like the violence that took place in the water.
Speaker 2:It was there, you know, it was still there at that point, you know, and I'd been dunked several times like underwater, which I don't think kids understand these days. You know, it's like, yeah, we used to paddle out and if they didn't want you out there, they would just fill your suit with water and send you in you know it was like there was no, there was no calling your, calling your calling your mom, or calling the police about it. It was just like, well, that's just that's just the way it goes yeah um.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I definitely got a you know and and and understanding of that Um and uh. And then you know, kind of taking myself out of that scene for almost two years, right, and you know, for 13, 14 years old, going and spending all that time in San Jose, and then I was just a weekend warrior. So I, I, I don't know, I guess, in a weird way, I got a sense of you know, of you know what it was like to be, you know, commuting over the hill to go to work every single day and just being able to serve on the weekend. So I still felt like somewhat an outsider on on the weekends coming back, cause I wasn't really here, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:I wasn't really here. If that makes sense, yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 2:I wasn't growing up in the scene.
Speaker 1:Listen, I raised my kids this way, so you are expressing out loud what it was like to be in my car going to San Jose six days a week, and I purposely didn't have my kids get in the scene. Right, that that was my goal. Yeah, you live in an age bracket where, for the first time in my lifetime, I was watching dads push their kids into that scene. You know there are names push their kids into that scene. There are names we'll leave unnamed, that live in your lexicon of age group, that were pushed into that. And yet where has it necessarily led them? They've been able to make a living at times doing the thing, but they miss something also, having been involved only in that aspect of it. So, knowing this as the outcome, what do you think that you gained now by not having been allowed in or involved the way that the scene was emerging?
Speaker 2:I think I gained a a different perspective for you know, especially like for people coming. You know cause I I made a lot of friends with you know the valleys over in San Jose so.
Speaker 2:I have a lot of empathy now for people coming over here, you know, you know, and cause I was still involved in both worlds. So it was kind of like. I mean to give you an example I was with my friends from Bellarmine and we were at Taqueria, vallarta, and I remember seeing some friends from town and being like so embarrassed to like introduce the like introduce my Valley friends to them that I ended up just like ignoring the whole, the whole thing altogether, you know. So it was this weird, this weird juxtaposition of, you know, being involved in the Valley and also being involved in Santa Cruz, where valleys were hated and you know, spit on, and so it was, you know.
Speaker 2:but it gave me perspective of like. Okay, you know, santa Cruz is a small town and full of assholes. I don't even think it's it's assholes, it's just. You know, when you spend all your time in one place, you don't, you don't start to think of the bigger picture, which is easy, you know, for any, I mean, even when I'm here and I spend too much time in town. I think that's why I like traveling so much, is it just gives you a different perspective on on the world. And that, like you know, santa Cruz is a small town.
Speaker 1:You know we have decent waves, but it's not that good, which is why everybody's so angry.
Speaker 2:Waves really aren't that good it used to be good.
Speaker 1:It's just not as good as it was Not as good as it was.
Speaker 2:The reef has depleted. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:The damn tsunami really actually screwed some things up all the way across town. Yeah, let's stay in this scene just a little bit longer. Jack, I don't want to push you too hard in here.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, does that kind of answer your question a little bit?
Speaker 1:Well, there's a real value to this kind of conversation, because there's a tone I've been being corrected on from my wife about all my podcasts is that she's like you know you're in a good space, but you still seem kind of so angry about it. You know, whatever it is, how it's defined for you. You know, having grown up here, and you know her concern, and understandably, is that that she goes. I feel like you're imposing this thing that you experienced on everybody, that you sit and sit with who's in santa cruz and it's like, yeah, but we actually all experience this shit like of like the shame, that of you even wanting to introduce, you know, children that were your friends yeah, that were your real teammates, because the fear of associating with the wrong group means that maybe you don't get waves, despite like, like it's silly, and and so we've been in this long conversation about it and you're actually putting the words in a very good way.
Speaker 1:That's the real tension and you're articulating better. Like, hey, we're just in a bubble here. We think the things that are true in Santa Cruz are true everywhere. And no, it's just an odd bubble, that's not all that as good as it was and getting not better. And people are celebrating it like it's something and not that it's nothing. But it's not what they think it is and certainly not worth fighting for the way that they do.
Speaker 1:Like this comedy of behavior that we know that we, you know we call it localism, but it's kind of a misnomer. It's like it's actual identity that is on offer here and you know, because you experienced it differently, you're able to articulate it. It's worth articulating about, it's worth saying these things that like, hey, you know we, we grew up in a bubble here. The bubble got legitimized in 1993 by the whole media surf thing. We've allowed ourselves to think that we're something and we're not that thing anymore.
Speaker 1:Not that that thing doesn't exist anymore, but you know it's not for the Santa Cruz select anymore. You know you take a spot like Mavericks, which is a place that you surf, and you know how many mavs guys are there now the way that it was all mavs guys before you know, and the guys that are the mavs guys aren't getting any media. You know the ones that are there all the time. Yeah, you know there's a couple premier guys that that are getting the media, but it's not like the crew crew is getting the the touch by the camera the way that it used to you know, because that's how it was it used to be, that they were getting all of the the attention on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they were the only ones there, but now, now that everybody's showing up, they're not the only ones there but, but but this is the weird bubble though of.
Speaker 1:Weird bubble, though of of you know the thing, whatever it is, you know, not that it was right or wrong, it just is how it began, and so you know which. It's not a bad thing, because they were taking risks before anybody else was and doing this thing Nobody else did. But now you know we have, you know I don't know how how packed the lineup is up at mass when it's going. It's packed and it's all.
Speaker 1:You know a lot of media up on the cliff taking pictures of the people they're there to take pictures of for media circles from other countries, from other you know spots in America, of their guys to fulfill their bubble of what they perceive as their guy in that bubble going to Mavs. It's weird, like it's just weird, you know, but you have to have a media lens, you know, which I kind of do of like just watching this thing, like, well, you know, it's just, these are pictures of guys that are making money doing this, like that's all it is. Yeah, there may not necessarily be the guy, but there's a group of guys. That this is what they do and they go highly unnoticed, I guess, is the best way to put it Absolutely, you know, as as I have one in my house, you know I can think of a handful of people that deserve quite a bit more media exposure.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, local boys that just do crazy, crazy stuff on the left and don't hear much about it. No, no, no, no, no, it's just, I've been doing it for, you know, forever, since they were 16 or whatever. Yeah, and you know they have, they have normal jobs and they, which is you know, in a lot of ways it's kind of cool, I think.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, they're just really good.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:They're really good and they could be top-level professional servers, but they're just like no. I think I'll just work. I'm good, I don't need to be on social media making posts every you know, so it's you know different perspective, different ways of doing things right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you Doing things right, yeah, and I get to watch B kind of live in that flow. He has his own identity doing what he does here for the city on the lifeguard side of things.
Speaker 2:I think that's great. It seems like he's found a great niche for himself. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But he's fairly well-traveled still. Yeah, he was down in New Zealand and they were out. They were out of the spot. I forget the name of it, but then there was this other slab left that they you know we're talking to the locals about like, does anybody surf over there?
Speaker 2:Like, no, well, let's go check it out when was there.
Speaker 1:You know we ended up breaking his foot out there but kept going on the trip. But came back, you know, over to the peak and the the guys were like are you guys pros? They're like, no, the only other person that surfed there is like mcfanning and joel parkinson, and you know, and again, this, this little pocket, new zealand, right, this perception of what they thought they were seeing. You know this, yeah, group from you know, capitola, orange county, and you know some other guy just out there doing their thing. And that's what they do. They just go around and find slabs all around the world and go throw themselves over them and as dangerous as I'll get out. You know I'm panicked every time. Hey, I'm going to a new spot, like, oh no, I don't, I don't, do not send me pictures, I don't want to know. But you just did some traveling here. Like this pretty big trip here, this last one for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So where were all the places that you went?
Speaker 2:So this winter I went to Portugal and then I was over in Ireland and then went over to Hawaii for that big swell, the big eddy swell, and then came back to Mavs for that same swell. So that was quite a bit of an expedition, yeah, and you? Did some snow time too, though.
Speaker 1:Did a little bit of snow time yeah, not a ton this year.
Speaker 2:I tore my Achilles a couple years ago snowboarding, so snowboarding's been a little trickier to get back into. Yeah, just being strapped in and yeah you know, yeah, but I'm familiar feeling a lot, feeling a lot better yeah, so that's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so other than other than the stuff I've seen on Instagram, were you getting torched? Did you get a few this year?
Speaker 2:I got a few waves, yeah. So I had, yeah, definitely some low points. I mean, there was a, you know, after that Piahi and Mavericks run. I was definitely pretty bummed for a while, you know, even though you know I ended up getting a lot of media exposure from that wipeout, which ended up being a good thing in a really in a really strange way, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean there's like I mean kook slams wants to do like a wants to do a whole, a whole uh interview, like about my wipeout, which is great publicity for me, especially like for my business, and like just getting you know, social media is such a weird thing because it's not like you, you know, it's not like I went out that day like I'm gonna go fling myself over this wave to get media exposure.
Speaker 2:You know it's like you know, but when you're, when you're trying to grow a business and you're trying to, you know, unfortunately you need eyes on what you're doing.
Speaker 1:You know which is is hard, it's hard to like get in front of the camera and be like hey, look at me doing this, Look at my biggest failure so far in my life. I really don't give a shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was, you know it was. It was kind of this you know weird position of being like kind of bummed, like that I, you know, didn't really get. I mean in in Maui I didn't really get any good waves. I mean I got a couple like small rides, but I didn't, you know, I had my expectations here and then no.
Speaker 2:And then I, and then I flew back the next, you know, the next day, like on the red eye I was just completely torched and showed up at Mavericks and, you know, towed into two waves that I absolutely ate shit on as well. It was kind of like man, you know. And then you're seeing all these momentous rides.
Speaker 2:You know, like you're seeing the you know the world record waves and this, and that you know, and in one regard you're super stoked for your friends. I was super stoked to see Willem get his, his crazy paddle wave, and you know Aloe to get that wave, and you know that biggest wave ever at Mavericks. But you know it's always hard, you know like, because you always to some extent feel a little envious, like man I should have, you know, done this or that. You know, but I mean, that's how you learn and that's how you get better. So you know it's really just, you know, being disappointed with yourself that you didn't do better. But I think you, you know, from from what I've found, you you learn so much more from, from those moments than you'll ever learn from from, like you know, having a good day of surfing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, having a shitty day of failure. Failure and grief are the two best teachers.
Speaker 1:I think in life, you know yeah, uh, you know, in in retrospect, I had no intent to actually talk about this, just so you're aware. So I'm, I'm, I'm flying by the seat of my pants on this one, you know. Is there a practice that is now being incorporated by you? You know, now that you know you were in the zone right, you're in premier moments, you know to call it failure to me is saying too much, but, like I know your expectations on yourself and what you want, I'm very similar that way. I'm probably a little bit more competitive than you are as it pertains to that and I've, worse, probably had more success, which was probably luck in those moments as opposed to applied talent.
Speaker 1:So my feelings of failure in my late 40s, as I began to get injured and you know surfing has fallen off my talent wise is, you know, definitely diminished in those moments. So you're living at a different apex moment of of that. You know you still have a lot of life ahead of you to do these things. Is there a practice that you thought you understood, that now you're actually incorporating, to overcome that, that feeling of of feeling like a failure, cause I think we're being disingenuous if it doesn't feel a little bit that way, cause those moments may never come in your life again. Like you don't know if you're going to see those swells, I mean it's just the reality of the Pacific.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can look back when I was gosh I was 2016, so I was 45, no 47 when I went to fiji and I was out at frigates and there was only three of us and it's as good as frigates get. I'm the best surfer on the boat, it's. You know, faces are substantial, at least, you know, a bit bigger than the ceiling here, but just knock out. All you do is drop in, get barreled, and you're barreled all the way across and I just couldn't do it and you know it just got in my head because the guy next to me had a panic attack. I had to take care of him for a half hour and then whatever mojo he had was in my head. And here I am on my dream trip. You know, you're only three days in, so you haven't quite gotten your legs, but you know this, forgiving yourself like almost, for having a dream of actually being able to do it.
Speaker 1:It was a. It was a hard process for me to go like fuck, like that was it and yeah, I'm not that guy Like, seriously, by myself, there's no reason. Like it was. It was three hours of nonstop waves and like my buddy's sitting inside having fun, you know, at the bottom of the reef and it was the day of his life and I mean he surfs good.
Speaker 1:But I am the guy on this trip and the boat driver, who had only been surfing a year, was riding a 5.6 Channel Islands built for a 14-year-old and he was 6'1" showing me where to take off. He finally was like after an hour he's like this is where to be and I just couldn't get myself in the mindset yeah, and you know boat drivers just trying to help me, and like he couldn't help me because I had all these data points of experience that that were working against me. All of a sudden and you know I'm still not over it yet you know like what that did to undo me as a surfer, like it literally ruined my surfing, like that was it.
Speaker 2:This was how long ago this.
Speaker 1:This is, um, yeah, 2016, done, like done and like it was like as easy as that size gets. Yeah, and it was big. I mean don't get me wrong like it was scary, you know, but frigates is a deep water spot. I don't have to worry about bouncing off the reef, like none of the things that that that cloud break does to you if you make a mistake are at frigates, but it holds as much swell, so imagine, like, just how big that was and and you knew you had the skill to, to do the thing, which is probably one of the hardest points, because you're, yeah, not only do the thing, like, do it well and like I got a camera up there like this, is it?
Speaker 1:this is the magic moment, and just I, I and I found out, you know, maybe I'm not that guy I got to live with believing I could be that guy. You are that guy, bro. I'm a different guy than I thought I was, which is because I'm trying to ask is you know we have these methods that we do to push us over again, to take those data points, and you know we acquire them. You know, at your age, are you finding yourself in like a spiritual practice of some sort Breath work, being mindful? You know like, but now it matters right, because now you know like.
Speaker 1:You know, whatever it was I was trying to do, I can't do it in that, that feeling of shame. You know, when you come home, having dedicated yourself to this moment, then you know, in essence, kind of again, I don't like the word failing it's more in my own heart, it feels like failing. You know, is there something that that? It was a nice idea, you know, these practices are great and it enhanced what you were doing, but now it's like no, I actually have to do this as a practice to get to that next spot, like it's now real, like even these practices of getting focused yeah like are you?
Speaker 1:are you finding a seam in there?
Speaker 2:yeah, totally yeah I mean for me, breath work, I mean therapy, I work with a therapist. You know, after that, that big run of swell, I mean I did a lot of which seems kind of weird, you know, because after that that big run of swell, I mean I, I did a lot, which seems kind of weird, you know cause you think therapy would be based around like um, which I guess it is. I mean that was that was actually making me depressed.
Speaker 2:My my performance on just cause I put so much, you know, time and emphasis on, you know, being a big wave server. So, um, and my therapist has a lot of, you know, really good breath work practices and you know, spiritual practices. I have like a, you know, a morning routine of like movement and breath work and meditation and and and prayer. You know that's that's been super. And then also just, I guess, for me on the on the physical side you know, is which you know, I actually got to test out this, you know, most recent trip to ireland and had it had a very good one, probably one of the best surf sessions I've ever had in my life.
Speaker 2:And the difference was when I went from you know I flew basically for that payal he's well, this is no excuses, but this is just actual practicality. I flew from Europe straight back to California, got my stuff, went over to Hawaii, so it was, you know, like one or two day turnaround with all that jet lag. So I wasn't sleeping, you know I'd wake up in the middle of the night. You know, wouldn't sleep at all. And then I go out and serve jaws and then to wonder if you're going to I told my coach.
Speaker 2:So my coach is Ricardo Urbina, who I do a you know, a underwater pool training with. We have a business we can talk about that later but, um, I told him exactly you know what happened. You know I flew from here to there and then I flew over to California on the red eye and you know, lay on a little bench, sleep and and I ate, I ate shit. All these different times. He, you know, lay on a little bench, sleep and and I ate, I ate shit. All these different times. He's like, really, you did, did you? He goes that wouldn't make sense at all. He's like, from a high performance coach perspective, that doesn't make any sense at all.
Speaker 2:You didn't sleep, you're jet lagged. You know what I mean. And again, you know I mean a lot of and it's hard because a lot of people can do it. You know, especially as big wave surfers, you know there's a lot of like. You know this. You know macho mentality of I can do this, I can fly here and blow through this time zone, and a lot of times you can. You know like, with the adrenaline you know flowing through you, I mean you can stay up for days at a time and go and do the thing you know, but it's much better to go to a spot, settle in, relieve the jet lag, get good sleep, focus on nutrition, and then you're going to perform so much better. So I think that was the big lesson learned from that. I don't know if that answers your question yeah that's the practice, is like being intentional with.
Speaker 2:I mean, one of the biggest things I learned from that swell was, you know, alo Sliber was over in Piauí and he bailed a day or I think two days early, which everyone was like you're crazy, dude, this is like going to be the best Jaws of all time. But his focus was on Mavericks, right, because he knew there was something special coming to Mavericks, and so he gave himself that day and to like, really like, prepare, settle in, and then he does what he did. So there's no, it's not. You know, the proof is in the pudding. It's like, where are you putting your attention? You know, I think my attention was so many different places that I didn't do anything Well, I tried to do everything well and didn't do anything well, whereas you know. So that that's been the big learning lesson is being intentional with what you're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's sit here just for a minute.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so was that your first time really swell chasing? No, I've done it before, okay, and had some success with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know Gotcha, yeah, so it was a real humbling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was a real humbling yeah, yeah, it was real, yeah, real humbling experience, rough yeah okay yeah, yeah, but at the same time, you know, looking back on it, now it's, you know, all it is is gratitude for I mean just, I mean even having the ability to have gone, and yeah done that yeah yeah, just being grateful. Like you know, you didn't, you didn't do shit, you got a, you got a crazy wipe out yeah, yeah, well, you know, I think I don't do you follow dr conti's work at all?
Speaker 1:no, yeah, he. He did a great series actually with huberman um a couple years ago about agency. Actually it's a four-part series like 12 hours. It's a lot of data. But his descriptor of what a mentally healthy person looks like is the first thing is agency, the ability to make a clear choice, no matter what your circumstances. And from agency, that is the tree that brings gratefulness. Gratefulness then empowerment, empowerment then humility. You know so you know, on that tree, which is what you know, true mental health, I believe, looks like, you know, is, whenever I'm finding myself in that weird zone, it's like, oh, this is because they don't feel like I have agency right now. Okay, I feel like I'm making decisions right right now. It's just on urgency, you know. So I've been in this weird practice of not doing anything whenever I feel urgent okay, you know as as a practice, you know, I started, you know, around christmas time of.
Speaker 1:just, you know I got injured right before christmas, you know, on that big swell, yeah, in a place I didn't think I would. I was just surfing Bombora right before it came in and got swept through some rocks, kind of strained my groin a little bit and then, you know, go to the club work out gets a little bit worse. You know, end up popping down the Rincon later in the week, on the Friday. That was really good and empty. I'm super injured, still pushing, you know, but just operating in this urgent behavior.
Speaker 2:And then I realized, like this is the moment, this is the time, yeah, and it was a moment.
Speaker 1:And you know I only got. You know I'm 55. There's only so many trips to Santa Barbara. There's a number to them now it's not unlimited anymore. And you know, rincon's a place I know well, I get a lot of waves there, generally speaking.
Speaker 1:And but I found myself in that urgent pattern of like oh no, you know, I have to go do this thing and and, uh, realizing how many other spots in my life where I, I, I do that, you know, I just lack a particular agency. I'm just operating in the way that I know to do it and I have a lot of experience so I can trust that experience. But I'm not realizing I'm being urgent. You know so whenever I'm urgent that's some other thing that's operating in me.
Speaker 1:So it's been a weird, you know, now almost four months of not doing things, you know, because I feel like I have to and it's like no, actually I don't. So I'm going to sit with the feeling of not doing and I don't like not doing. But I've learned to live with myself not doing something. And you know, in the last four months, which has been a weird again, spiritual practice of like no, I'm just not going to react, you know, because this thing is is betraying me now, at this age. You know I'm gonna, I'm gonna hurt myself if I keep deciding and not listening to my body, and you know. So, uh, anyways, worth a listen, I guess.
Speaker 1:I guess the best best way to put it.
Speaker 2:Um, thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's been a hard, it's hard. Um, thank you for that. Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's been a hard time. It's hard, like, like it's hard to not go out when it's really good and feeling that like all that dopamine is just sitting there waiting to be had and it's like, yeah, no, and I'm not being lazy, actually this is so purposeful and, uh, you know so the practice itself is not a fun one for me, but it's, we'll see if it's helpful. You know, we'll see.
Speaker 1:As I begin to, now that my body's all well from jujitsu and all that kind of stuff, my ring sizes drop. You know, two sizes on my wedding ring. It's like, oh, it's all loose again. So apparently the inflammation is gone.
Speaker 1:You know how do I approach this, you know, with this kind of clarity you know of, you know, am I pushing the right way? That's, those are weird processes to go to. I like. I like your process on the other end of the spectrum is my point. How do I better prepare myself for that? Endorphin push, you know, but tail end, tail end stuff here as you're on the downslide. So you have been mentioning and this is actually really why I called you was really what you are up to. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you're up to? You know, on the business side of things, I you know I hear rumblings, but I want to hear it from you. I haven't listened to anybody, but from what I've heard I like it and I'm very hopeful for what can be received by the people who participate in what it is you're doing and what it can bring to the county, to the city, for, for people.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so a yeah. So a few years ago, I mean on, you know, in 2019 was the last year I was a coordinator of junior lifeguard program and then, you know, covid sort of COVID, sort of COVID did happen. And you know I'd already, you know that last year, coordinating junior guards, I'd already kind of started to see ways, you know, not necessarily to like, you know, just coordinating junior guards, I'd already kind of started to see ways, you know, not necessarily to like, you know, just just to put my own spin on the junior guards you know, like I mean there's, there's a program that's been going for super long and, like you know, like any idea it's.
Speaker 2:Like you know nobody's reinventing the wheel, it's just taking your own iteration off something and taking a spin off of it. So I'd already kind of had those ideas of like you know what I'd want to see with you know junior guards and you know having, you know smaller groups that you could take. You know 15 kids out on paddle boards and you know junior guards is so large it's hard to like really get that like small, intimate feel of a group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard to specialize a group.
Speaker 2:It's hard to specialize a group and intimate feel of a group. It's hard to specialize, it's hard, it's hard to specialize a group and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it's been, you know it's, it's an amazing program. I mean I recommend that to any kid out there. But COVID happened and you know I had the opportunity to, you know, put that practice into or put it into practice. So you know it started out with just there was a family that asked me to take, you know, six kids and do like a private junior guard program. So you know I did that and I started to incorporate surfing, started to incorporate, you know, paddling prone and teaching kids how to boogie board. Um, so really, you know it's just a culmination of, you know, all the things that I've done, from, you know, teaching for various surf schools, to junior lifeguards, to, you know, all the the sports that I grew up playing and you know, just putting my own, uh, my own spin on things. So that's my business. Central central coast Waterman.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so I. So I, I want to talk a little bit more about this, you know. So that that's, that's what you're committing yourself to, um, you know, can we get a little bit into the purpose of why it is you're doing it? I mean, clearly, this is a business you want to do. You know it brings something to you, but you know, what are you seeing for the people that come to you, like, what's the purpose for them? You know, like, like, what is it? Because I, I do believe that often what we put ourselves into is a reflection of what we didn't receive, that we wish we had. You know that, someone who was there for for us, to groom us to a spot where maybe we were better prepared for the opportunities.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I wish you know. Growing up in this town, I wish I'd had, you know, more mentorship and I had some great mentorship. I'm not saying that, but just you know somebody to come alongside me surfing and be like hey you know, you're not a kook, boogie boarder.
Speaker 1:Like you can.
Speaker 2:You don't have to live with the title that was given to you, yeah, so you know, just somebody to come alongside and you know show, show you how to do it, cause I mean at that time there wasn't, there weren't coaches or anything like that, so it wasn't. You know, we had our, our high school, middle school coach, you know, for a surf team, but there was no one actually like showing you how to surf and like how to stand up on a board and how to prone paddle and you know how to hold your breath, like, hey, if you start to get panicked in the water, you can. You know it was just kind of like, okay, what do I do? I hold my breath, you know. So just you know that. And then also, I think you know beyond that. I think it's just giving kids an opportunity to understand that they're far stronger than they understand.
Speaker 2:I mean that was the biggest thing I learned from junior guards. It was always every morning. It was terrifying, like getting down to the beach. Okay, you're going to go swim around this thing and then you're going to do this thing.
Speaker 1:And you're like, oh my gosh by. Oh, by the way, there's no sharks and, by the way, we see them, but we don't talk about them.
Speaker 2:We don't, we don't talk about them. Yeah, don't pee though, don't pee though. Yeah, there was this one time we were at it back when they had the competition at the cement boat. Right now we know that. Now we now we call the cement boat shark park, but at the time it was just a.
Speaker 2:It was just a sea cliff competition those damn drones around the and I remember like sitting there and I was like this just doesn't feel right and at the time, you know, I didn't know about sharks, I was like nine years old but I was just like this just doesn't just feels a little weird out here swimming, no, but just the. You know the, the um, you know what that teaches you. You know just about life is incredible. You know perseverance, doing hard things, pushing through those hard things, and then you get rewarded. You know, yeah, you're not going to get rewarded just sitting down and waiting for things to to happen. You know, and I think you know, especially now with social media, and you know door dash and this and that it'd be easy for kids to think, no things, just things just come to me, like I just get that thing.
Speaker 2:You know it's like no, if you want to be the valedictorian student, you got to put work in. Or if you want to be a professional athlete, you're going to have to put a lot of work in. Or if you want, you know, if you want anything in life, you gotta, you know, effort, effort first, and then the reward comes later.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I said I wasn't going to do this to you and I totally lied. You're the first person I'm doing this to, all right, but I think we've built enough of a rapport here that I that it's okay. Um, you know when, when we do things that feel right, you know we look for the goodness, so we see the goodness. You know, and and and again.
Speaker 1:You're a man of reputation and I'm asking this question simply because I know you're a good man and I see your motivation and it's pure hearted. You know, like, like the thing that you do, how I hear about you in town, there has not been a single person that has ever said anything bad about you and it's been only good things. So again, with us really not knowing each other, it's just. You know, back and forth, me remembering you, as you know, as a relative grom, showing up at sewer peak and being committed. You know, which is again, some weird measuring stick, who cares about that? But since I'm one of the guys at sewer peak, you know it's like oh yeah, there's a guy that's going to be coming up.
Speaker 2:You know, whatever, whatever in that sewer peak bubble yeah, and then that stupid little bubble.
Speaker 1:But but like, why are you doing it? Like deep down in your heart, like why is it? You know, apart from money because I know you're not making a ton of money doing what you're doing there's something deeper in the why that you know. If I'm the first person to ask you why, then maybe this is just the first person I think, because I was I mean, I was a depressed kid.
Speaker 2:You know I dealt with a lot of mental health issues. You know I, you know, self-medicated as a kid, smoking weed. I I had a hard time like finding my identity in the world. Um, ended up, you know, you know, being diagnosed with adhd or bipolar and took medication for a long time and um, so I, you know, I understand like what it, what it's like being a kid, and you know it's, it's hard being. It is yeah, especially, yeah, especially now It'd be easy to be like, well, kids don't have to do this and that and I catch myself doing that sometimes.
Speaker 2:It's easy to be a kid, but really it's a lot harder because now, instead of kids picking on you, you have kids picking on you and then going and making a post on social media and blasting it to everyone at school, and then it's just, it's horrible. So I, the deep down reason is, you know, I understand that the ocean is like a safe space and it's a place that you can, you know, gain a lot of. Uh, I mean, it's a spiritual place, I mean that's why we, that's why we spend time there.
Speaker 2:You know it's like yeah and go in the water and you, you, you see the kids change afterwards. You see the change in their personality and their biochemistry and just everything is different.
Speaker 1:Is it okay if I stay here in the depression?
Speaker 2:for a little bit. No, no, this is great.
Speaker 1:Well, this is up my alley too. So I don't know if you know this about me, but I have been depressed and suicidal my whole life, up until last year. So, as someone who's just you know, there's a strong relating point. I guess is the point Not that you share the same suicidal ideations that I do, but you know the routine when you're a depressed person. You got to wake up and take a shower real quick, yeah, you know, to get the day going, or else the day ain't going to start so. So there's a method that we all have.
Speaker 1:Not everyone with depression has the same kind of coping mechanisms that I got to develop through surfing, through being competitive just, you know, kind of turned me into an asshole in that culture, you know, because of whatever I was bringing to it, what I needed from it, you know to feel like I was human.
Speaker 1:Then that allowed me to be the nice guy on land. You know whatever bipolar behavior lived in my bipolar two, you know of. You know contending with this feeling that comes in the morning and you go to bed every night, sometimes wondering is this ever going to go away, this feeling? And so, in that stretch of tackling your depression, how you tackle your depression that way. You tackle your depression that way are you finding, you know both the you know because because you know I'm living in an archetype now of this stuff of like you know there's this motivator of doing for others. Yeah, you know which, which is fantastic. You know there's a great receivership that happens on your end of just going and doing for other people that does something for you, that if you're not feeling it, you get to feel it through the other humans.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Are you finding that what you're doing is starting to curb that thing in the morning? You know, because you know what you're doing doesn't make you a lot of money, but you get to give yourself away in the process. Know what you're doing doesn't make you a lot of money but it you get to give yourself away in the process. Um, are you finding changes through that process for you personally?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely, and I think just, you know, just figuring out like what you, what it is that you want to do in life is, has been a big thing. For that I mean, like I said before, you know I took medications for a long time and it was actually through my own, you know I guess you could call it success of building a business and, you know, um, helping other people that I actually was able to like stop taking medications because I felt purposeful and like I was actually doing what I'm like intended to do here on earth in a weird way. You know it took a long time to figure that out, but it's like Like I was actually doing what I'm like intended to do here on earth, yeah, In a weird way.
Speaker 2:You know, it took a long time to figure that out, but it's like, you know, and it's still and it's always changing. You know, I don't think I've fully figured that out, but I figured out something that is, you know, worth doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And worth waking up for in the morning.
Speaker 1:Cause, yeah, I still deal with that I this morning I had a hard time, yeah, yeah, shaking, I had to come and hang out with you. I was like, yeah, I know, fucking mike, that guy's an asshole I remember the first time he just paddled around me the whole time.
Speaker 2:It's such a dick and I did but, but you know, all joking aside, but yeah, I mean when you, when you when you do stuff for other people, it's, it's uh, I mean, you know, especially now having traveled, you know, quite, quite extensively to different parts of the world and served, and you know all of that is like fun but it doesn't bring you the purpose you're looking for in life. I've come to realize yeah I mean, some of the happiest days I have are just like going and teaching kids how to serve.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, I mean it's such a. It's such a weird thing well, yeah, it's funny because again I'm on the other side of it. I'm, I'm discovering what it's like to be me now it's me. I've never been. I'm, I've only got a year of practice, so it's hard. Like I wake up in the morning in a good mood yeah like what's that?
Speaker 1:you know, okay, the whole day is ahead of me. Hmm, I wonder what I'm going to choose to do today and just embrace it. And you know, sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's, you know, not fun, but like it doesn't do what it used to do to me, like I don't have to have the good things, feel better, you know, to get me through the next day, that kind of thing. So it's a new relationship I'm having with myself. So it's a new relationship I'm having with myself, but to the point you know I shared with you.
Speaker 1:You know I haven't really surfed at all since Christmas time. You know I got a couple sessions in and then got sick, horribly sick, or actually went flat. Then I got sick after that and you know, so I'm, you know, having to, you know, as I expressed, just kind of live in this behavior, like it's great, I don't have to feel urgent, it doesn't matter. But surfing with, you know, my baseball kids at Santa Mo's and showing them how to work the lineup out on closeouts, on waves that they can get two turns in. And you know they're not great surfers, they're not going to be pro surfers. You know they're not great surfers, they're not going to be pro surfers. You know one of them has a coach and like, okay, you know, but like did they show you how to catch a wave at Santa Mo's? You know, like actually just enjoy your time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, surfing this little thing, I don't think I've had a fun or surf session in five years. I'm just showing these couple, three kids. Here's the setup, setup, here's what you want to look for. The ripple change, you know it's a little waist-high wave to me that if you fall you're gonna face plant onto the reef. But you know, but that pressure is good for me.
Speaker 1:Like, oh, you gotta mind your P's and Q's, yeah, and this is how you do it. You know, take this little high line, do a little boom, boom, and there you got a wave on a closeout day that's knee high and that joy of surfing again, and it's the first time I've had it in a long time. And like, oh, that was fun. Like just to show these kids on a wave storm and I'm doing turns on a wave storm that they can barely do on their shortboard. Like, wow, you turned that board. I'm like, yeah, I'm fat, that's how it works. But but, uh, you know, this thing of of really giving what's true of you, you know, to people, you know, does something for yourself that I don't think a lot of things can, and so you know I anyways, that's enough of my little diatribe about, about how well I'm doing, hey, jack.
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. I'm so sorry. Thanks for no. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I mean that's, that's what connects us all, is there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. So I do want you to take the time to. You know, promote what it is. You do. You know what. You know what, what. What is your you know actual business thing? You know what. What do you want to do for the County? You know what, what. What is it that? Hey, you know, cause I can validate this thing. You know, I've been around children all my life. I still coach little league. I love kids, not just my kids. I'm not that parent. I want children to experience good things that are offered by good people and again, this is why I called you on is that, for the most part, the people that are involved in things maybe not technically the most relevant spaces in the county, but really good spaces for kids to be, to learn how to grow and to be a mature adult and experience good things. So, on that end, that's why I really want my audience to know what it is that you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, yeah, Once again, thanks for having me on here to speak about this. Well, yeah, once again, thanks for having me on here to speak about this. I mean, I guess you know, what I would like is just to, you know, give kids another opportunity for understanding the ocean. The thing is, here in Santa Cruz, I think there's an abundance, you know, especially, there's so many people here and so many people coming from over the hill and from wherever. Now, you know, and giving kids, but also people I mean, I work with adults as well as giving them, uh, an understanding of the ocean deeper than just surfing. You know, getting to understand our culture here in Santa Cruz. You know, like, where it comes from, good or bad. You know understanding the surfing lineup so that it's safe. I mean, we've all seen it now.
Speaker 2:It's ridiculous out there, it's just it's horrendously dangerous and we need to actually do something to change this. So it's, you know, figuring out ways to, you know, just educate people in the proper way of you know. I mean, even last year, there was a couple of people that you know died in the ocean, so there's still, you know people aren't quite aware of what's going on out there.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't know if you listen to b's podcast, you know, or caleb's podcast about lifeguarding, you know that now the government has, in essence, allowed us access what staircases, but they've also regulated the locals from you know what were protection mechanisms through localism. There's this thing where beach people, who are just beach people, are thinking they're water people because they have access and it's dangerous. There were dangers in place beforehand, which was scaling the cliff, and so it required a particular personality to get down the cliff. To get to the spot.
Speaker 1:And now there's all these people and you know I'm really hoping that you and others you know certainly know there's enough agency talk going on within you know lifeguarding and fire service that there needs to be some sort of education practice. That has to get employed, because now the government is responsible for all the access. So I'm living in a curious state of hoping that people like yourself, and certainly people in my family and others around we won't name names because we don't want to put them on the spot, but they're all good people, people all seeing the same things. You know pro surfers that are from here have been talking about this for years that we just need to educate these people you know and and so anyways, why don't you go ahead and name your business one more time?
Speaker 2:yeah so we get that, get that registered with every listener yeah, so central coast waterman is the is the name of the, the ocean safety academy. I like to call it okay surf school. We teach, teach people how to surf, but you know it's, it's goes far beyond that. You know just understanding the water. And then how do they find you? I can find me on Instagram. Central coast waterman or central coast watermancom is my website, and then Jack a crop 19 is my personal Instagram, and then we also have central coast rescue, which is the. We didn't get to talk about that one, but that's the, the the wetsuit, the wetsuit company that myself and and partner anthony started.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we'll talk more about that after, after we're done. Yeah, we'll work out some more details yeah but um, anyways, jack, thanks so much for coming on the program. Yeah, I really appreciate you and, and I mean I appreciate you, man I, I, I really mean it that you know of of.
Speaker 1:You know you're not a young man, you're very mature human and sitting in front of me but but I have enjoyed watching you grow up and turn into the person that you've turned into Like it really means a lot to know that there are guys that captured growing up the thing that we should be and you really embody that as a human. So thanks for sitting with me. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me Appreciate you.
Speaker 1:You bet Well to all the rest of you. You end up having a good day today. Please love you all. Take care of yourself, thank you.