Unpacked In Santa Cruz
"Unpacked in Santa Cruz" is a homegrown podcast hosted by Michael Howard that dives into the lives, stories, and salty moments of people who call this coastal community home—or have been shaped by it in some way. Whether it's a deep conversation with local surfers opening up about mental health, or a peek behind the curtain of someone who started a one-of-a-kind food spot right here in town, every episode brings something real.
You’ll hear from folks who found healing behind the lens, built businesses from scratch, or chased massive waves thanks to a lifetime spent around our local waters. These aren’t just interviews—they’re conversations that reflect the heart and soul of Santa Cruz. Raw, reflective, and rooted in community, Unpacked in Santa Cruz brings local voices to the surface.
Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Episode 55: Brady Muller: From Volleyball Courts to Racing Cars: One Man's Search for Peace in America's Most Beautiful Town
The beautiful, coastal paradise of Santa Cruz, California hides a complex reality beneath its postcard-perfect veneer. In this raw conversation, longtime local Brady Muller pulls back the curtain on what it truly means to call this tourist destination home – especially when you're watching it transform before your eyes.
Brady's story weaves through the neighborhoods of his youth – from the "jewel box" near the beach to the developments behind the mall – painting a picture of a community that has always valued athleticism, but now increasingly values wealth above all else. "It's hard to see people that grew up here that can't afford to live here," Brady reflects, having recently been forced to relocate to Watsonville after 13 years in the same Santa Cruz rental when his landlord passed away.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn as Brady opens up about his struggles with depression and self-worth. Despite being a gifted athlete, respected builder, and jiu-jitsu black belt, Brady battles persistent feelings of inadequacy – a sentiment shared by many men who feel unable to meet the escalating demands of living in such a high-stakes environment. His candid admission that "I've had thoughts of suicide many times" shatters the illusion that those who appear successful are immune to mental health challenges.
What emerges as Brady's salvation is surprisingly multifaceted: the unwavering love for his two sons, the physical and mental release he finds in jiu-jitsu, and his journey toward forgiveness – particularly of his absent father. "I can't force people to love me or be in my life," he shares, describing the healing that began when he reconnected with his father, primarily so his children could know their grandfather.
For anyone who has felt the crushing weight of not measuring up – whether in paradise or elsewhere – Brady's story offers both comfort in shared struggle and practical wisdom for moving forward. His experience reminds us that communities are built on connections, not comparisons, and that sometimes the most important perspective is the one that others have of us, not the one we have of ourselves.
Okay, well, welcome to the Unpacked in Santa Cruz podcast. I am your host, michael Howard. I am sitting here today with a friend of mine, brady Mueller.
Speaker 2:Mueller, mueller, yeah, mueller, because he's not that good of a friend apparently. No, no, no, I don't know. Don't worry, everyone does that to me. Don't even worry about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, we want to welcome all of you to the podcast. It's sponsored by Santa Cruz Vibes Magazine and Pointside Beach Shack. Brady just got a tour of the beach shack and it's pretty bitchin' yeah, this place is amazing.
Speaker 2:I'm very impressed. It's very cool, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're going to start a little bit different today. Brady, I'm excited, I'm going to say a word. And what's your first thought? Oh boy, santa Cruz, santa Cruz. First thought I'm excited, I'm going to say a word and what's your first thought oh boy Santa.
Speaker 2:Cruz, santa Cruz First thought amazing, it's beautiful. It's changed a lot, a lot since I was a kid. But yeah, the place is. There's so much talent that comes out of here. We're starting to see a lot of pro athletes come out of here and it's just such a beautiful place. You know, I've talked to people that have been everywhere in the world. You know, my friend's grandfather was like in the Navy, I think he was saying. I mean, he said he's been every place in the world, everywhere, and he said this is the most beautiful place in the world. Yeah, you know, I haven't been everywhere, but I, you know, growing up here it's kind of you take it for granted, though you know it's easy because I don't travel a ton and you know. But when you do go other places, man, this is like everyone says, it's a nice place to come home to.
Speaker 1:So yeah yeah, it really, you know like I I had the privilege of like going on long water ski trips. You know we'd go two or three weeks up in the Sierra foothills and I always love coming home Right. You know, like you're in that 100 degree weather and I mean it's great. You know you're having fun and doing the things, but like coming over Highway 17, just the fog.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel like, oh the things. But like coming over highway 17, just the fog, just like I don't have to be in this my whole life, this thing. But but even from san, jose, you know like san jose, gets that that edge to it and it just it gets sweltering and you know you forget that the rest of the world is mostly like that. You know it's just warm and it's only 30 minutes away, which is the craziest thing yeah.
Speaker 2:Drive over a hill and you're there. Bam, it's just right here. Yeah, yeah. So you're from here, I'm from here. I was born in Los Angeles, actually San Fernando Valley. That's where my dad lived. Or I was born in Canoga Park Hospital. My parents divorced when I was three years old, I believe. Then my mom moved us up to Watsonville. Originally it was the first place we lived. I lived there until the third grade, I believe. In the third grade we moved to Santa Cruz. So I went to school from Watsonville for a little while and then moved to Santa Cruz and went to Santa Cruz Gardens elementary, new Brighton Middle School, socal High.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you're young enough to actually have gone to New Brighton. Yeah, I went to New Brighton. Wow, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:I can't believe I'm that much older than you. Yeah, but I am. Yeah, I'm 44. Um, yeah, it's funny, I have a lot of friends like you that are kind of like 10 years ahead of me. You know, they're really good friends of mine.
Speaker 1:You know things like ken horton, I don't know yeah, yeah, yeah, no, ken and I went, went to uh high school together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I figured you knew ken yeah kenny was the nice.
Speaker 1:You know. There was a group of football players where, you know, ken was the small one, which is they were big fellows. They were all so mean and Kenny protected me Right, right From the beginning. Yeah, yeah, he was such a great guy.
Speaker 2:He's a sweetheart. He's a great guy. Yeah, we're really close. We actually met. I used to live in his dad's house on 24th Avenue, over by Felt Street, and we lived there for, you know, like 13 years, 12, 13 years and his dad owned the property. So that's how I got to know Kenny really well and ever since then he's been like a brother to me and one of my best friends.
Speaker 2:Was that right out of high school? No, not right out of high school. Um, no, not right out of high school. Actually I lived at my parents house like, uh, behind we used to live in the jewel box over by you. Okay, I'm like 49th and garnett, but then, um, actually the house that has, like all the cactus yeah, yeah, yeah yeah we were just looking at it, yeah, yeah it.
Speaker 2:But it was like all along when I was a kid and like one one tree, super nice house, beautiful neighborhood, you know, did junior guards like you know, like you guys all talk about stuff and such an amazing program. Uh, but no, then my parents moved um behind the mall. There was like a newer neighborhood at the end of gross road behind the mall, and virgil lane was over by the coffee lane park. So then we, we moved back there and, um, that's where I grew up I forget where I was going at with that, that question, but um, that was a really cool place to live, though.
Speaker 2:A good good neighborhood and yeah so not too far away.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's literally like a mile from the jewel box. Yeah, I mean, capitol is only two square miles, so it's not like yeah not like some giant town. Um, you know the the audience can't see your face, you know, but you were talking about how things have changed a little bit. Yeah, you know the theitola of your youth the. Santa Cruz of your youth you know the experience of how things were compared to how they are now. Um, you know in your mind, in your words, you know what's the difference.
Speaker 2:Um, the difference of this community when I was younger was just such an incredible community to be a part of, with lifeguards and Little League. I'm still friends with a bunch of guys that I played Little League with and still see those guys around town and here and there. But just growing up in the community is such a tight-knit community and it's just kind of changed a lot over the years being a lot of people are getting pushed out because of the price of living here and it's hard to see you know friends having to leave to other states and you know lots of people are, you know, richer more people, billionaires or millionaires are moving in and kind of taking over is what it kind of feels like in some areas.
Speaker 2:You know there's still a lot of locals that live here but it's just hard to see that people that grew up here that can't afford to live here. You know we've had to. You know we we had to move out and um get a different place, also move out towards Watsonville, which a lot of people are doing um, cause it's a little more affordable out towards that way. But and it's really a nice area, but um it's still extremely expensive. You know the my landlord when he passed, like Kenny's dad when he passed away, um, we, my landlord, kenny's dad, when he passed away, his dad would never give us the boot or whatever, but the house ended up going to his daughter. Her daughter moved in, which is not a big deal at all, but after 13 years we had to uproot and leave Santa Cruz. We're still in Santa Cruz County in Watsonville, but you know it's an expensive house we live in. It's a nice house but it's expensive and it's just we're not in the same neighborhood we used to be in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just, you know, things have changed and the field is just a little different.
Speaker 1:It's still the most beautiful place in the world, but yeah, grant, it's still the most beautiful place in the world. But, yeah, yeah, it's. You know, for the audience who's not from here, which there's a lot of you, and thank you for that. You know there's always been a tension that's been here and santa cruz has never been cheap, you know, by by any means, right, you know. But but the layers of wealth and how it's coming now, it's just so different. You know it's hard to find a, a deal that isn't done with cash now, right, and if you saw the zeros, you know that that float through real estate deals now, and how people are outbidding each other by a half a million, a million. You know it's absurd money.
Speaker 1:And you know, I was just in Chile a couple weeks ago and it was such a weird experience because it was Santa Cruz 50 years ago. I mean it looks just like here, right, and it was. You know, in my mind, you know I had this kind of romantic idea about how it was, but it was weird being there because their economy is really on the precipice of changing. They're very stable, but it's going to have to grow in some way and it'll grow, because Americans moved down there and changed the dynamic of the way the economy works and it was so weird to be somewhere where it's like this feels just like it did when I was little. The people own homes there. You know they're not making a lot of money, but they're living there and they eat there and somehow, you know, the food is good because it's not processed like there's right, there's every. Everybody just lives and eats and works where they're at.
Speaker 1:And it was so strange because, I mean, for me I always think, oh, I wish I had that again, but it was like there's also a layer of hopelessness, of like boy are, are we going to make it Right? Because in the regions that I was at are dependent upon tourism. During the summer it was just Capitola and we saw five of these little Capitolas and you're like, oh man, I remember this, yeah, it was not that easy, and how I've romanticized how that was. And again, that's my experience and it, you know, again, that's my experience. You know it was a strange contradiction though, you know, but but it reminded me of when I was young. You know the Valley wasn't quite the Valley the way it's the Valley now Right, and wondering what can I really do for a career if I want to stay here and like it was tight, yeah was tight. Yeah, you know you weren't just pounding nails like you had to, you had to work your way up.
Speaker 1:You're digging ditches for two years right there's no upward mobility, like everything was really static. So you know, it's a weird conflict, though, for guys like you and me, right, yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah that's.
Speaker 1:We know how it felt before and it was tense. This tension is lots of zeros, like I don't even know where to put it Right. It's crazy, you know, cause, like I said, you know, we just had a house selling the neighborhood and went a half million over. Wow, you know, you're like that's wild In cash, like done Showed for a weekend gone. Granted it's a premier neighborhood.
Speaker 2:Sorry about the garbage truck in the back people.
Speaker 1:There is no foam insulation in the warehouse, although it's a beautiful warehouse, yeah. So, brady, why don't you tell me a little bit more about yourself? So you grew up. You know what high school did you go to? Socal, socal High, yeah, yeah, and what was that like?
Speaker 2:SoCal was great. I mean I liked it. It was. You know, I feel like I failed myself a bit or it was failed maybe a little bit by the system, I don't know, but like it was a little bit too easy. Like there's just things that we did that just cut in school and just you know, just security guards taking you out of class, just you know just crazy stuff that went down that like probably is not going down these days, but um, it was a great school. I really enjoyed it. Like I always thought, you know, I'd want my kids to go there and you know, but actually my son's going to harbor, so which?
Speaker 1:I never thought that would happen.
Speaker 2:That was our hugest rival in high school. Like, uh, we, you know we at the basketball games there was.
Speaker 2:Like our friend, like me, like the Harbor block H on the shirts with a circle and a cross through it and, like everyone was wearing them at the games and you know people like burn stuff on the field the night before we played their football game and just like just dumb stuff, you know. But you know we did beat them 48 to zero. We had a pretty solid squad. You know we did beat them 48 to 0, though we had a pretty solid squad at SoCal. But I really liked SoCal though. You know it was a pretty good school. But you know I wish I would have done a lot better. You know I didn't end up even graduating. I didn't walk, unfortunately, which I regret to this moment of my of my life. You know there's just little things like. It's just I think they could have.
Speaker 2:Nowadays I feel like they have a more acceptable approach for the kids like or more helpful approach. You know, from what I've seen, I have two boys, you know, 13 and 16 in that age and when I go to the parent conference meetings, you know they're allowed to like turn in late assignments and they're allowed to like. Basically, if you just show up and have participation and a good attitude, you know you're going to do well in the class. Yeah, and you know I just kind of struggled back then with all I wanted to do was play sports and hang out with my friends, and you know I heard you talk about it on other podcasts.
Speaker 2:You know like boys want to be active and do things. You know it's hard for certain people to sit down for hours on the end. You know, looking at a chalkboard, and you know we all just we all don't learn the same way. Yeah, so I've kind of struggled with that over the years of not doing better in school. But I, I, now I, I preach that to my, my kids. You know my kids are straight A students and they do really well. They play a lot of sports. You know I've always coached all their sports since they were real little and still doing that to this day.
Speaker 2:You know, coaching at Shoreline Volleyball we're just finishing up the season and did really well this year. Took second in the league, you know, and Shoreline's never had a team like that before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know. So it's nice to give back and try to help out. You know those kids that you know the advice I didn't get when I was a kid. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's not to get too personal yet, but it's like and I think all parents go through it right, you know, we start parenting from a deficit, we parent from where our parents didn't right, you know, and we start to where we wish that they had met us right. And you know it. It's hard, you know, because, because you're somehow bringing this thing that you've carried your whole life into this new relationship where they, they don't know what that is.
Speaker 2:They just know that that's where they're starting.
Speaker 1:You know they're. They're just a CPU just waiting for data. You know waiting for the right processors. And, and you know parenting is, is man, it's. It's a big one. You know that, that that's a it's, it's tough, it's.
Speaker 2:you know, it's the, it's a blessing. I'm it's like the most the best thing that's ever happened to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know how some people say, oh, I don't ever want to have kids. You know, I'm like. My brother told me what Jesus is right. He's like it's the meaning of life you know, to raise your own and you know. So it's pretty cool, um, but I was going to say, like I had three older brothers, so my mom had four boys in seven years.
Speaker 2:So by the time it got around to me, I think my parents were kind of they'd seen it all and kind of had it you know my brothers you know they knew all the tricks by then, and so they were kind of over it by the time it came around to me.
Speaker 1:Little ones eating crackers out of the couch yeah but my mom did.
Speaker 2:She remarried and you know, so I had a stepdad, since I was like three, pretty, pretty young. So you know, my mom and my dad and my stepdad, they all used to play in like a volleyball league together. So they all, you know that's. That's how early it started. Like before I was even born, my family was playing volleyball, and so that was a huge part of our life growing up what's that like watching your parents play volleyball, because I I don't have that experience.
Speaker 2:I think my mom played soccer for a little bit when I was like 10 that's funny you asked um, well, actually by the time I got to like it came around to us playing, my parents parents weren't playing anymore. Really, they used to officiate a lot. So actually when I was in high school, or actually my whole life growing up, my mom and stepdad were officials, like volleyball officials for high school and college in this area. So we would always go to, even when, like, harbor was the powerhouse, the girls and you know, back in the day with, like, elsa stegman was the girl, was like insane her thigh, you know quads were this big, she jumped like you know, 40 inches it seemed like.
Speaker 2:But, um, so we used to go to like all the volleyball games, you know, and they would be officiating and we were just running around kicking balls, and so it was always a big part of our life watching the, you know. So then I became an official and a coach, you know, after my playing and all that. So I just had a lot of experience watching it my whole life and my mom was like the top official, so she took it really.
Speaker 2:She was real serious about it. And even my stepdad officiated and stepdad was doing like announcing on the local channel with Rusty Reed, like during our games. Like he would be announcing our games. My mom would be reffing like the expendables be on the stage playing music and stuff. It was pretty wild, like pretty amazing times.
Speaker 2:I had like a really good team. You know like I played varsity four years in Soquel. My brother was like a senior when I played I was a freshman. So just a lot of really good experiences. And you know Team Santa Cruz is like club volleyball growing up Since I was really young we all played. You know traveling around the US for the Junior Olympics and just really good times. Like. So my parents, you know, did show us a lot of, supported us, you know, with our athletics and stuff and but it was hard like my real dad wasn't like a part of my life growing up though. So until like recently we've, you know I've kind of forgave him and reconnected and um, but that was something I always kind of longed for is you know, he like saw like one football game in my whole career. You know, just just weird stuff like that you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know it's as I'm hearing you talk and, and you know this era, right that that we grew up in you know where, where you know, fortunately you weren't latchkey. You know I was latchkey, you know cause everybody's parents were getting divorced, right, you know, and and you know it's for me, it was really nice to raise my kids when I did. You know I was raising them around my parents. You know I had a lot of boomer dads on pool decks at baseball games. You know that were 20 years older than me.
Speaker 1:It was it was really weird at first to be like oh so now you show up, you know for for the third batch of kids or whatever. Whatever was going on with you you know, but you know for for the third batch of kids or whatever.
Speaker 2:Whatever was going on with?
Speaker 1:you, you know, but, right, uh, you know, but but parenting back then, so it would. This is unusual to me, right? I haven't, you know, with someone in your age group or higher. I haven't sat with someone who's had a parent that was involved in their life.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like. So your experience, I think, is a little bit different than I think even a lot of your friends you know, even though you're the child of divorce, you know what was it.
Speaker 1:Those are. Those are really good memories for you, just being on the. You know being at games, you know having people in stands and you know, and we'll get to that disconnect, you know, with your dad in a little bit, right, but you know this kind of polarized reality. You know that you had a group of parents that were very involved, right, and then a dad who wasn't a group of parents that were very involved, right, and then then a dad who wasn't um, you know, athletics, at least for my family, has been like an imperative, you know. But it was really unique sitting in stands with other parents because there weren't a lot of parents in stands at my games. It just it just wasn't that way, let let alone on a field or anywhere else. I think my Little League coach was some old guy who just loved kids but there wasn't enough coaches.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, that happened in Little League. Before You're like, wait, you don't even have a kid on the team, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm that guy now.
Speaker 2:You got a kid on the team now. Sports has been just a blessing to me, you know, and it's just like, even to this day I just love sports and playing and just being active. And you know, I've gone out of shape a thousand times but like, somehow, with sports, I'm able to.
Speaker 2:You know, get back where I'm supposed to be, and maybe that was just my way of disconnecting. Or you know, get back and where I'm supposed to be, and, um, maybe that was just my way of, uh, disconnecting, or you know, and even like, when we go do jits, you know it's like it's a way for you to get your mind off of your reality and go have fun with your friends and and forget about everything, just have a good time.
Speaker 2:Um, maybe that was just my way of doing it, but even to this day, I just, um, I love playing sports and just being active like weekly. I'm blessed to be able to go play with the brazilians once a week and play soccer um indoors, and that's been super fun. I've been doing that like almost a year now with them, um, so just, I'll do anything. I'll play any sports.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't mean whatever I can get my hands on. Half the time I couldn't even remember half. You know most of my hobbies because I just had so many hobbies, you know no time for surfing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think you saved yourself, not surfing, yeah, you know it's, it's.
Speaker 2:Uh, I have surfed a good amount of my in my not as much as you guys, but, um, like I grew up doing junior guards and you know, I learned how to surf. You know, paddle on the paddle boards.
Speaker 1:Go surf the paddle boards, yeah oh, dude, that was the best.
Speaker 2:We'd go surf second jetty and the paddle boards it's so fun, you can catch anything on those things and um. But yeah, then, like when I first my first born child, um tristan, when he was born in 08, um, I was like kind of a stay-at-home dad for a little bit. I think it was the economy or something back then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it might have collapsed. Yeah, I think that was a part of the reason, and then, uh, not much work out there yeah no loans being given for houses. I think there was a lot going on back then. Yeah, I wasn't building too much.
Speaker 2:But I was able to go surf a bunch and I was surfing every day. I wouldn't even go check the waves, I would just go out and go surf. I got pretty good for a little while and it was fun. I really miss it. But there was a couple big set days where I was paddling way far out, way outside of the whole crowd and then waiting for a big set wave On the 11-foot foamy. Yeah, exactly, just jumping into what felt like double overhead. Yeah, probably was at that age? Yeah, exactly Probably was.
Speaker 2:But I really miss it. Like just walking today out on the cliff and looking at the ocean, I was like man, I just why am I not out here fishing and surfing more? It's like so beautiful yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know, since you've touched on it a couple times, what has junior guards meant to your life?
Speaker 2:I mean, you're 44 now junior guards meant to your life. I mean you're 44 now junior guards. Yeah man, it's funny. I I hear you have been watching or listening to the ton of your podcasts, which has been really enjoyable.
Speaker 2:I think you do a great job with that um, but I hear you guys talk about it a lot and because your kids are so involved in it and your lifeguards and totally but um, that program was really cool growing up and you know we lived in the jewel box at the time, right by your house, and literally just walked right down the cliff, right down the street to the, to the beach, and my parents didn't have to worry about me at all, like I don't know if they cared or whatever but like they cared.
Speaker 2:Obviously I'm just joking, but um, they didn't have to worry. You know I could just be there all day long. You know we'll do like morning session, afternoon session. You know I wasn't the best. I wasn't like going to the regionals and stuff for like flags and doing all that.
Speaker 1:Well, you had a pretty athletic crew. Oh, there were years. No, there were some killers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah smash score up and uh who knows?
Speaker 2:yeah, andy domingo and all kinds of those guys there were some really good guys in my era, for sure. I mean things got really competitive about them, yeah, so just being out there with those guys and like just being able to be a part of the program was amazing, and I think I always tell people I think it literally like saved my life one time because, um, we're after a bachelor party for tucker sand and we're up in like tahoe coming back, um, and we stopped at like the truckee river and we were all like, oh, let's just go take a dip in the water, real quick, you know. And so we kind of dipped in, jumped in the water in this kind of mellow area but then, like I dipped my head under my I had sunglasses on my top of my head and like my sunglasses and they were kind of expensive, so my sunglasses started floating down the river and I went for him.
Speaker 2:I went to grab him and I missed it the first time. Then I went and grabbed him, tried to grab him again, I grabbed him, I grabbed him, but before I knew I knew it, the river started sweeping me down the river. And I was like oh no.
Speaker 2:But if it wasn't for doing lifeguards at 8 in the morning and being used to that cold water and knowing how to relax and not freak out, I probably would have just hyperventilated. And I went rafting one time. My parents took us rafting one time so I knew to keep my feet in front of me like crossed and like when you're going down rapids, like I was literally getting swept through rocks and for like 300 yards. And then I finally had like swim as hard as I could to get to the side of the water and then, once I got to the bank, I had to like 100 yards through like a really thick brush to get back A little scratched up and scared and cold.
Speaker 1:It was a terrible experience.
Speaker 2:But you know I give credit to junior guards. I tell people, man, I probably would have died if I would have freaked out, if I wasn't used to that cold water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know for our listeners. You know Tru, know truckies in tahoe and that water probably was sitting at 48 degrees at the time which is uh, it was all snow, which is which is a threshold issue on the body, the shock yeah is is pretty high.
Speaker 2:A little bit more shocking than ocean water, especially on a warm day too, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, you know I.
Speaker 1:I think you're a good person to ask this question too, because you are in athletics and you know the talent base that comes from this town, like per capita, is top shelf. Like I don't know how or why it isn't really truly talked about here, you know, but I mean how many? We have two or three guys that go up to the bigs. You know, in in in baseball, there's always a kid or two that gets into the draft, right, you know countless pro volleyball players. You know. You just go down the list of athletics track stars, swim stars. We have Olympians here, right, like it is a talent mecca and it's strange because it is a small town, there, you know, there's not a lot of people here. You know, as far as the whole county goes, and you know, again, it's not talked about enough how talented this town is, but it seems really mellow.
Speaker 1:But in reality, as we were talking about before. We had the microphones. Hot, it's incredible, incredibly competitive here, right like it's a very competitive region. People never think it is. It's like, well, you're actually here because you're competitive too and you're just denying it. Right like there's no such thing as a simple mountain bike ride or a pickup soccer game. Like that's all bullshit. Yeah, you know there's nobody out there going and having fun. They're out there competing and it's just part of our DNA, but we're so used to it we think we're the mellow ones.
Speaker 1:It's like no, I don't think there's ever been anything mellow about Santa Cruz in my lifetime. I'm not sure what's mellow about it. So have you had that same observation? Because I'm thinking about when the talent really started to come? It was about your age group when it really started. Bam, bam, bam. You started seeing the guys in the pros everywhere.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, it's really cool to see you know people like Casey McGee, bo Hart you know all playing in the big leagues, to see them, you know playing next to like Prince Fielder and you know, just, you know they're out there doing it and, yeah, it's incredible. You know Giuseppe Charamani he was amazing in this area and his whole family, those there, his brother, vito, was my quarterback in high school and keno charmani was amazing too.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, giuseppe, he was gonna be like the next buster posey, yeah, and but you know he decided to go the ministry route yeah from what I hear and um, yeah, it's just there's so much talent around here and it's really cool to see like even the SoCal's coach, dwight Lowry, you know, played in the NFL and now he's giving back to my old program over there, which is, man. I wish I had a coach like that when we were there. We were extremely talented. But you know, coach Steve Smith did a good job over there.
Speaker 2:He was kind of like a drill sergeant, which you know, I think my last year was his last year, but I learned a lot, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we know each other from jiu-jitsu. I showed up there seven years ago scared I don't think I'm not scared yet but right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it takes a while for that to go away what has jujitsu meant to you?
Speaker 1:like, like, like the contrast of the first time you showed up, right to what it is to you now, because you know you're. Are you got a stripe on?
Speaker 2:the black belt, so one stripe black belt yeah, and that is no short endeavor, people.
Speaker 1:That is a minimum 15 years of grind, you know. You know, not counting injury years and all the stuff that happens. Right right, I have a high affinity towards jiu-jitsu and where I was at in my life when I showed up at 48. What has jiu-jitsu meant to you?
Speaker 2:Jiu-jitsu to me. It's been. You know, a lot of people say like, oh, jiu-jitsu saved my life and in a way it does kind of. You know, it depends on how you look at it, but it's been an incredible community of people. For one, I think that's probably the most of what I got out of it, and besides being able to defend myself and you know, all that good stuff, there's amazing community of people. I've met so many like you and just so many people that if I really needed something they would be there, you know. And then that's the biggest blessing, um claudio, he's been amazing. He's, you know, he's done a lot for me and and and nate and does a lot for the gym and he's, you know, he's so helpful and always inviting and so it's helped me in. You know, it's helped me in a lot of ways. It's given me confidence. You know I'm a lot different than, obviously, the white belt the first walked in there that was getting his butt kicked by everybody.
Speaker 2:You know I feel like I can handle myself against most anybody. You know, even a lot of the top. You know level guys in there if I'm in shape. You know I can do pretty good, you know. But um, that's not what it's all about.
Speaker 2:It's like it's more of an individual journey this is, I think, the best way to look at it for for people and and what is you know where, what is done for you and where you're at. But it's given me a foundation for me to work hard and for something like for my kids. They look at me and they see me all the time I'm going to training, after work, after I work super hard doing construction all day and just being a good example for the kids, and on the mat and you know, they see the kind of the respect that I get from other people, and but you know, it's also just it's giving me an opportunity to help other people too.
Speaker 2:You know, I think that's one of my favorite things about about JITS is being able to, uh, you know, pull that white belt aside and show them a couple of things, give them a little love, and you know, and down the road, that those things go pretty far. You know, it's like people appreciate that and they come back to you and you know they'll thank you. It might not be right away, but not that that's what I'm doing. I didn't do it away, but not that that's what I'm doing it for, but we all like to help each other because we're all.
Speaker 2:I always tell people we're all white belts. At some point we're all that nervous guy walking through the door that's scared to be there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with a hall full of killers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, full of killers. You know, yeah, um, I'm not quite sure how to frame this a little bit. When I showed up I had so much urgency and fear. You know, um, I knew how to fight before I showed up, so I wasn't there to learn how to fight, you know it was. You know, for me, matt had been watching me going on a downward spiral and he just was like you got to go, you just got to go be here with people they're your people, that's good, and so it was a really good moment for me. But then I'll never forget the first time Matt didn't come with me. I was like three weeks in and I pulled up, cried left, went home, got my driveway turned around, came back right. You know it was. It was.
Speaker 1:It was a lot for me because I was just so fearful of all that I was encountering there, um, and so I didn't realize I had that much fear right inside of me. It was a lot, whether it was my previous competitiveness, all that kind of thing. Jiu-jitsu for me has done a lot to help me really wane from having to feel competitive, if that makes sense. Look, I'm never, never gonna be that guy right, and it was so refreshing to not ever have to be that guy, you know, yeah, you know, on on top of being on the on the older side of on the start date, it was just like I, you know, I don't even want to be that guy, right. And so there was a lot of freedom that came with all the fear and encountering it on that mat, right, what was it like when you first went through? Like how old were you? You know? Why were you showing up? Good point.
Speaker 2:Um, the reason I got into it was, uh, a really good friend of ours, he's like a brother to me, um, eric Ben Equisto. Um, a really good friend of ours, he's like a brother to me, um, eric benequisto. He used to live in santa cruz, um, and he moved to san jose like a really cool guy, great, great person. He used to like bounce down to the catalyst and stuff and um, but he was him and my brother like really close, so like he was like automatically like a brother to me, but um, so when he moved to san jose he actually ended up opening a gym over there, um, and they did like kickboxing and jujitsu and one of the instructors was bobby southworth, who was on the first ultimate fighter, another amazing talented person to come out of santa cru, and so Bobby was one of the trainers over there and so.
Speaker 2:So Eric would always tell me oh, come over and train, come, you know, and just really helpful in getting me into jiu-jitsu. Probably took him, you know, a few years to actually get me to actually consistently start training. So I was, I would make my way over the hill and train over there, which was kind of hard to drive to San Jose for training after work and all that. But that's what got me introduced to the sport. And then Eric actually is now he partnered up with Claudio and he actually runs the gym for Claudio in San Jose. So then when he transitioned and partnered up that's when I started training with Claudio's Some of our guys started, came over and started training with Claudio.
Speaker 2:So it was cool to have the first introduction with like kickboxing also and doing some standup and but that that's that's what got my foot in the door. Um, so it wasn't too hard for me like actually walk through the door because I had a friend there and be friends training there that were really accepting, you know, so helped me out a bunch. And so I had a little bit of a foundation when I came to claudio's. But then when I went through all the belts at claudio's so white to black and yeah and, like you said, it's not an easy no journey like I've had other
Speaker 2:black belts come up to me. Yeah, and, like you said, it's not an easy journey, like I've had other black belts come up to me and they're like you know what this gym is. They don't just hand out belts at this gym. You have to earn it and you know you've got to go through some wars to get there. But it feels good, it's a major accomplishment and, you know, gives me a lot of pride. Major accomplishment and, you know, gives me a lot of pride. And, and you know something, that my kids can look and say hey, you know what dad? Dad just didn't just talk about it. Yeah, dad got, he was about it.
Speaker 1:You know, did it? Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, um, okay, we were talking a little bit, you know, about depression earlier, right, you know, before we started and and you've been on blast on the podcast a little bit and and I want to let you start this a little bit about, about, you know it's a pretty common theme. I think you know common enough that. You know, I know there's a crew there that just is doing something more for us, right, you know that. You know I, you know I've been depressed and suicidal most of my life. You know we're there for multiple reasons.
Speaker 1:Right, you know how has jujitsu helped with that for you? You know what, what, what, what are the what, what? You know, what is it about the mat that helps you feel like you're you? That helps you feel like you're you because I don't know, I mean, I've had some really good things in my life, so I don't want to diminish, you know, my realities. You know parents love me, wife loves me, right, right, great kids, all that kind of stuff. You know, got to be pastor, good hairdresser, all that shit Totally. But jujitsu did something to me as a person that I did not expect, you know, and it lives in the camaraderie. You know, like you said, you know all of a sudden you got 150 guys that got your back right and there's not. I mean, the town feels that way. If you grow up here, which is really unique you know that. That you know I joke around about this like you're out surfing and everybody hates each other. But I swear to god, the guy that hates me the most out in the water if I called him he'd have my back for sure it's a very strange thing you know, with jujitsu you're trying to kill your best friend yeah
Speaker 1:you know trying to choke and kill your best friend, and there's there's something about being in death. You know that is very real on that mat, you know, without the pads, without all the stuff, and we are genuinely trying to break each other's bodies, but there's there's this deeper camaraderie that happens there and I know for me that there was a lot of life that I felt in that death match. Right, you know, of just just being there, having to be aware of yourself, all the feelings that are going on in your body, but having to focus on what's happening and how much that cleared my head, with anybody who does jujitsu sitting across from me. You know I'm always doing my black belt speech, every belt promotion like well, what was it this year?
Speaker 1:that that, that that I would say jujitsu, jujitsu did this for me and I'm kind of asking it a little bit more specifically as we get into the mode of of, you know, talking about depression and and and you may not recognize in the conversation there's a theme sitting in and what you're talking about, oh yeah, you know of this feeling that I think a lot of us have in Santa Cruz. You know most of the men I know of just not being enough Right, that somehow because the culture is competitive number one and we have all this money moving in, like there's just all this stuff that you know, if you're just trying to make it fuck you know like you're not going to make it.
Speaker 1:That's the message that comes here, as beautiful as this place is, and that does not do well with my brain. My brain's already telling me I'm not going to make it. I don't need more information coming my direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah, and the irony of showing up at jujitsu knowing you're going to die if you don't tap. You know I just sitting in all the contradiction that is, I think, a part of both of our lives. Right, you know whether we're at work. You know raising our children. You know going to do a sport. We love all the things. You know what has jujitsu met? Where has it met you in a way that other things didn't Good question, it's a jujitsu has been.
Speaker 2:it's an incredible release to be able to go in there and just be accepted by your buddies and be able to forget about everything else that's going on in life.
Speaker 2:It's helped tremendously just to have that, just to be able to get all that out of you. And I definitely, when I'm not training which it happens at times, even in right now, which is kind of a bummer for a couple months I've been super busy with coaching and my kids volleyball team and I also I race, I drive a race car, the oceans, you know, and, like I said, I got so many hobbies that you know it's hard to keep up with. You know, going to train, you know a few days a week, and you know. But I I suffer when I'm not doing it and so I it's quite evident how good it is for me, like mentally, when I'm there to you know my mind's more clear. I, I feel way better. I'm around positive people Everyone is really positive and good to be around and good examples of how you want to live your life. There's always someone to learn from in there, which is the amazing thing, and it's all different people of different walks of life. Some of us are hairdressers, some of us do construction.
Speaker 2:Some of us are software guys. Some of us just surf.
Speaker 1:You've got to watch out for the software guys too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those nerds that walk into the gym. They're a nightmare. Oh, dude, they're a nightmare oh, they're a nightmare the guys that go home and just study. They're doing calculus on you, not geometry calculus yeah, yeah on your body it's just it could be.
Speaker 2:You know it's a scary sport. Depends on how hard you want to take it, how serious you want to be about it. You know there's, like we said, there's guys that go home and study videos all day and night. You know just that's what they do, their hobby, that's what they do for fun. You know there's and, but it's just been such a blessing and um, but I really do suffer when I'm not training, to be honest, yeah, and it's kind of and it's harder to go back the longer you've kind of been without it, like I've been.
Speaker 2:Like you said, I've been doing this almost 20 years, you know. So it's there's been breaks here and there, which is not a bad thing, and sometimes your life, your life, needs it, sometimes your body needs it, you know, to heal up those little nagging injuries or something. But, um, as long as you're training smart and you have the right intentions, you know you don't there's always going to be someone bigger and tougher in there, so you can't act like you're going to be the, the best guy in the gym or the, you know. So it's just it's very competitive. Especially nowadays, guys are getting more and more on their diets and more and more. You know being smart about. You know testosterone replacements and all this crazy stuff that I'm not doing.
Speaker 2:So you know there's some a lot of strength in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, their recovery's a little bit better.
Speaker 2:How are?
Speaker 1:you, okay, after last night, I don't know how they're doing training twice a day, seven days a week.
Speaker 2:But you know, yeah, everyone's different, driven by different things. Some people want to be a world champion, Some people just want to go in there and roll around with their buddy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's, that's me.
Speaker 2:And we all get. You know, we all get what we need out of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, if it's not too personal. You know you you talked about when you're not there, you suffer like what does that mean to you? Um?
Speaker 2:you know it's. It's really cool to see that you're talking about depression in a lot of your podcasts. Um, it's not always an easy thing to talk about you know, as you can see, I are here. I could probably I get kind of emotional sometimes when I talk about things but, um, a friend of mine was.
Speaker 2:I mentioned something about depression. So my mom, my mom, died like a week before covid unexpectedly, um, after a shoulder surgery. Um, she actually to get back to her playing volleyball. She started, they moved, retired in florida and they started playing volleyball in the pool all the time, so that's like their favorite thing to do. So she went in for like a shoulder surgery and ended up dying of a stroke and recovery like a week before COVID. So that really sent me through a lot of kind of depression and loneliness and just really brought it out of me. You know, and I'm still, I struggle to this day a little bit.
Speaker 2:And you know some days are better than others and there's a lot of, you know, coping mechanisms and things like jujitsu and, and I think, just being active and like not sinning your own thoughts, all the time and being active and getting out doing things and, um, I think, like jack said on one of your podcasts, like you know, making your bed and like cleaning your house and like it's nice to come home to a clean house and like little things like that, that few years since my mom passed or whatever, but, um, you know, but it's not even just that, it's just daily life of being a man in this world and in this town, of wanting more, not feeling like you're not, not enough, or you know bad decisions I made, like not doing better in school. You know, like somehow, I don't know how, but somehow, like I went to school all the time I bet I didn't cut that much or anything, but I didn't graduate junior high or high school, which is like it's really sad to admit, like I haven't even told that many people that it's really like embarrassing to admit that even, but that's just, you know, it's not like I wasn't going to school and doing my work and like, you know, and playing on all the sport teams and it's just. You know, somehow I came up just a few credits short in both areas and but I really regret that to this day and it's just, I feel like I could have been more educated. Uh, you know, I feel like I could have been more educated. I feel like I could have had a better future.
Speaker 2:Just dumb things like that regrets in life and they just affect my life to this day and that's just some things I preach to my kids. I tell them that Do good. In school. I felt like those years at my school whatever eight or ten years I just felt like it was just eternity. I felt like that's just. I guess that's probably just a young boy that just wants to get out and expel some energy.
Speaker 1:So when do you think was well, all some energy. So so when? When do you think was well? When do you remember the first time of feeling this way right here, because because I, I'm gonna, I'm willing to kind of say it out loud you know that the failure that you feel like you sit with, you know that that somehow you've failed life or failed yourself in some way, you know because of school, which is to me kind of ironic, because I don't think of you as a dumb person in any way. There's not anybody that knows you. That goes oh Brady's kind of dumb, you know there's like. But there's this thing.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not dumb, but I'm definitely not as well versus like your kids are, you know, educated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not dumb, but I'm definitely not as well versus like your kids are you know or educated, so I'm going to push back on you here. This is my point as a friend, is that nobody's thinking that about you? I think.
Speaker 2:I can hide it. Kind of good too. Well, I guess my point to you is that, apart from loving you, you're just a great guy I appreciate that I've I've tried my whole life to be the most upfront, straightforward, honest person you know and obviously, no matter how cool or good you are, there's always going to be people that don't like you or don't care for you or don't like your energy or something. But, like I've always, I strive to just be straightforward, like I don't ever want to be.
Speaker 2:Put something, you know, put something off, or someone thinks I'm a certain way and or, you know, I'd rather just be honest and try to be the most upfront kind of real person I can be and most, most people get that.
Speaker 1:And so you see around kind of real person I can be, and most, most people get that and see I see that about you. It's not like I, I guess I'm not, I'm not pushing back against you. There's a real that that you have. You know that, that things, that that you've learned to say to yourself yeah, you know about the wise and you know you. Just take 2008 alone. Right, I haven't recovered from 2008. Right, like you're not. You know you're not alone in the room that way. I was born to different people. That's why I'm a little bit more secure than you.
Speaker 1:But if you saw my savings account, you like holy shit, you know like it's not not good you know, it's that there's just certain realities that are that, you know, yeah, it's one thing to call it santa cruz, but there's a reality of being here. It it's almost oppressive in some ways it is.
Speaker 1:You know that that, that you know that we grow up immersed in Right. You know it's just part of how things work here, especially, you know, if you're just a worker bee, which is what we both are, Right, right, you know like and look, everybody in the world goes through this in some way, you know. So I'm not trying to make more of how we face it is just that keep adding zeros, people, right you know, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's one thing having a couple five grand more.
Speaker 1:It's another thing coming up with two million more. Right, you know, to have a dream of just owning a house, totally, you know, and the layers, I think that kind of sit with. Being a man here, you know, trying just to be a good guy and just do good work right I do good work.
Speaker 1:I've never heard a bad thing about you, right, like everything's overbuilt in the best of ways. You know it's. It's not a question of whether there's integrity in your work or whether it's good or not, but the thing you know, that is Santa Cruz, the. You know the outbiddings, the out, all of it. You know the way to climb up a ladder here is very different than a lot of other communities. That's what I recognize with all of it. You know it's.
Speaker 1:It's a strange place to have to do business, because business is what's not, it's not happening here the way it does everywhere else.
Speaker 1:Right, right, it happens in a very yeah, it's almost a mobster way. You know you got to know the right guy to get the right thing and then you may be in the scene. And again, true in most areas, but different here because of the weight, because of the zeros, and specifically to you, you know well, I'm trying to frame the question is when was the first time you felt that, oh man, you know like I don't feel like enough. You know, I don't know how your depression hits you, you know, but certainly kind of what's coming out in the conversation a little bit is this feeling that you have, that you you're not enough and and I'm staring at a really good guy right who's more than enough to, I think, the people that that he's around right and in the best of ways, not not like, oh you know, brady's a good guy, but like you're a good guy, yeah, it's not like anybody's going like, oh you know, right, that brady guy nobody's doing that behind your back, you know.
Speaker 1:But but you're doing it behind your back, oh, totally For sure. And the reason why I want to have this conversation isn't so much to press into you specifically, but to have this type of conversation that you feel alone in that space, and I think that's how most of us feel with depression.
Speaker 1:I know I certainly felt very alone most of my life, for sure, for someone who wasn't alone their whole life. That's weird, with depression, right. I know I certainly felt very alone most of my life, for sure, for someone who wasn't alone their whole life. That's weird, that's a contradiction to right what my actual life experience is and was. But that feeling of alone is what's dominant, at least to me when I'm in a depressive mode. So when was the first time you really felt alone? You know, and like it, it stuck.
Speaker 2:Really, I think having once you have kids my kids like, like I say, is the best thing that ever happened to me. But I think there's a little bit of like isolation or like loneliness that goes on when you're raising kids. I mean you go from hanging out with your friends all the time and doing fun stuff and going out to bars or whatever it may be. There's a lot of social life, but when you start raising kids it can be, I don't know, for some reason it feels like there's a lot of lonely times. Not everyone's calling you to hang out when you like got two kids and like there's not, there's not a lot of availability to go do as much fun stuff, or I mean there is, but just don't get me wrong but um, I think maybe that's when it started happening. Um, but and even to this day, like there's there's a lot of like alone time.
Speaker 2:And you know I don't have, like I'm still with the mother of my kids and we're not married. We don't have like the best relationship. You know, we got together real young and, you know, moved in like six months after, you know, right when we found out she was pregnant. Six months later we were living together and just things just evolved really fast and we still we love each other, we love our family, but it's just it's. I just have, like you know, not the ideal in my eyes, just not the ideal life or relationship that you know. I see a lot of friends that are happily married and they own houses in this town. They got these amazing jobs. Not that my life is terrible.
Speaker 1:You know, I have.
Speaker 2:It's really good. A lot of it's you know a lot of people would desire, but I think, uh, there's a high standard of living in this town, seeing all these, everywhere you look there's million dollar houses and um, so when you're not performing at the top level and I think part of it might just be my competitive attitude, because I've always been so into sports and stuff- and I just I push, I pushed myself to the limit.
Speaker 2:So I think I I hold a really high level for my, what I want for myself, and when I don't get there, I just I feel it just kind of brings me down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but I think it's just, you know, it might be just part of life. You know, I think what I was trying to get out earlier when I was talking about my mom dying, is my friend was saying I mentioned depression one time in some post on facebook, you know, and he said you know, it's really sad that we can't have more open discussions about this, and which is so true and it's really cool that you're doing this and, and you know, bringing it out of people and asking them what's really going on and like, why do you feel this way? Or so I think it's. We can all educate ourselves and a little bit. And the more I listened to your podcasts, the more I realized, you know what, I'm not the only one going through this shit yeah you know the only one going through this shit, yeah you know, there's a lot of other guys that feel kind of the same way.
Speaker 2:I do, you know, yeah, whether it's school is a reason, or parents, or their upbringing or it could be a million different things, but what I gotta remember is you know I have it a lot better than some, some people, you know, and I've always tried to look at the bright side of things and be thankful for, like when I go to train jujitsu, think about the people that have passed away.
Speaker 2:You know, like jared jr on my shirt you know, like people that aren't here or are not able to train or not, you know everyone. There's always someone that has it harder than you, so sometimes I just got to remind myself of that. Yeah, I'm still very blessed I have two healthy kids that are the most amazing, funnest people to be around and they're great kids.
Speaker 2:They're smart, their future is bright and, honestly, they're they are my motivation most of the time. Completely 100% of the time. Not that I'm not sure I would ever act on it, but I've had thoughts of suicide many times, probably since I was a kid. Yeah, you know, having three older brothers, you know the people. There's always a high bar that I was trying to reach, you know. So this is part of life.
Speaker 1:I think you know how did those thoughts come to you Like, does it take a little time to build up during the day, or is it when they come? They just like you wake up to the stuff the day, or is it when they come?
Speaker 2:they just, like you, wake up to the stuff. I think it, just I don't usually wake up to it. I usually wake up pretty happy. Um, you know, I'm not, I'm not extremely religious. You know, I believe in kind of believe in christianity, I believe in god. You know I'm not extremely well-versed on everything, but I wake up and I thank the Lord for just being alive. Just try to be positive. Everyone has their own different relationship with the Lord. With jiu-jitsu and being a competitor in jiu-jitsu, you kind of have to. If you want to be really good, I feel like you have to have that spirit, spirituality. You know that's, that's the way the top competitors are able to. You know, bring that the best out of them and not, you know, be well worried about stepping onto the mats. And you know, leave it in God's hands, and you know, so Go, do your best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, what happens happens, leave it on the mat, yeah, yeah. And again, you know, to reiterate, there is nothing like jiu-jitsu to both feel on top of the world but humble you so fast. Yeah for sure. You know like if you don't quit, you're gonna, you're gonna die. It's just, it's a thing, you know and it's real.
Speaker 1:So you know in in, you know in in this river that is, you know of all the thoughts, you know that all come at you. You know, and I don't know if you're all your thoughts come at you all at once. You know, I know for me, you know I can be thinking about 20 things at once and you know that might have been why what we're calling dyslexia or whatever else it was like well, which, which thought do you want me to organize here in math? You know, maybe not being able to focus or whatever else, but that you know, when you have a mind that works like yours, which you know, I, I do think there's a level of of intelligence. You know, maybe we're not, you know, sitting completely at the top, but probably you know where you have the ability to look at a lot of things at once and disseminate information. Right, but it's also incapacitating at the same time, you know, because you lack particular focus points at the right time. You know, as you're going through school or something like that. Right Cause, that's how it registered with me, you know is that my mind was just going the whole time like you couldn't read a book. Right, I didn't read a book till I was like 16 17, I hear you, you know, like just couldn't get sit alone with something in focus. You know, I had to be doing things. Uh, you know, I can look back now at 55 and go, okay, well, there's the beginnings of things.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like the feeling like I gosh, why can't I sit here and just read, right, like I know how to read, why can't I translate the information? You know, why can't I take what? I just read and then write it down. You know, for me, I've always been a good verbal processor, so I've I've had words, but I've been able to get out with my mouth right, and that has kind of saved me. You know, in a sense. But for you, you know, if we're relating the right way, you know how does that play out for you. You know, on the frustration side, your own anger with yourself, you know because of this thing that you want to get out, which is really really good. But like there's just so much going on in your head, you know it's it's. I mean, to me it's pretty transparent that athletics has been a safe space for you. Right, just to run free, totally Right, and think whatever thunks you need to do, but still perform. Right, I can still kick a soccer ball that direction. Thinking everything I'm thinking Right.
Speaker 2:So at least I accomplished something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it was a good pass.
Speaker 1:I had a good assist over here, got a goal there. You know I was able to choke that guy out. You know, just go down the list of all the stuff that we do. You know, because me, looking back on surfing like it was just a place for me to be hyper competitive, you know, I'm not even sure if I've really ever liked it right which is weird you know, there's something I've done my whole life and like I'm kind of reacquainting myself with surfing.
Speaker 1:Do I actually like this sport? That's weird. Right, you know, to have performed at whatever level I was, but, you know, not feeling like myself now, though, too and I'm coming at it from a different angle now, because I don't have the sad feelings anymore I'm not waking up to the thing, you know, the blob that's always coming at you. Right, you know, every day. You know I do remember those days every once in a while where I was like like okay, I think this might be an okay day to wake up. You still run to the shower, take that shower, wash your hair. Okay, can I feel grateful today? You know what's the list of grateful things. You know, say my grateful prayers, right?
Speaker 1:you know all these things that the culture tells us to impose upon us. Well, well, you're just not being grateful enough, which I think is the most atrocious thing that anybody could ever say to a depressed person, right? But I mean for you, like, truly, what are the steps you have to take in middle of that malaise, you know, because the darkness does hit you, yeah, you know. And what are the things that you practically have to do? Because, even though I'm not really wanting to be content driven and not driving for that, I do think it's important for other people to hear stories about here's how I do it, because maybe something can stick for them you know, as they're relating to these conversations.
Speaker 1:You know I don't want to miss those opportunities. Maybe you have something that I don't that somebody can pick up and go. Yeah, you know I do this in the morning and you know everything clicks. You know it's where they can get through a day better, so so what are the practical things that you have to do to approach a day when the darkness comes? Good?
Speaker 2:question um comes Good question Um, some things I do. I'll try to say a prayer sometimes, you know, to just try to get it on my own head. Um, I feel like a lot of it is just getting getting the body moving. You know, just doing things around the house like start cleaning something, just doing something you've been putting off or you know, positive for your day, um, I think like the best thing you can do is just exercise, you know, whether it be just go for a walk, um, and just get out and get some fresh air. You know just being stuck in your house.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's, you know, just in your own thoughts, it's you know, just in your own thoughts, there's just too much going on. They say, just get out, go for a drive or go for a walk or go for a jog or go play some sports or whatever. You know try to. Or just call somebody. You know call and talk to someone you haven't talked to for a while. You know, sometimes just talking to my brother that lives down south, you know he knows what we kind of both deal with the same kind of stuff, you know. So we can kind of just talk about what's going on and encourage each other a little bit. But you know, just get out there and be active. You know my buddy said you know, I do construction for a living and sometimes some days, days. You know, not every job is the most glorious job, you know digging fence posts is not high on the uh you know.
Speaker 2:But I do a little bit of everything. I've, you know, done houses from foundation to finish for almost 25 years, you know. But just showing up to work, you know, just going to work and just getting there, start working on some stuff, before you know it you're in a better mood, you put on some music and just get some fresh air, basically, and that's all I can really, you know. And just if you're religious, you know, talk to God a little bit. Yeah, just say, you know what. Take these thoughts out of my mind and help me stay focused and thankful for what I got.
Speaker 2:And also my kids. You know my kids are, you know, there's just going and freaking, hugging those kids and I tell them like 10 times a day how much I love them. And you know I'm just constantly giving them big hugs and long, long hugs and probably annoy the crap out of them. Sometimes it's just, you never know, one day I might not be around or people. Crazier things have happened. People just hug the people around you that you love and care about you. Those are great, know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are great tools. Yeah, you know it's, it's uh, you know, if you didn't catch it, people there's a really good list that's sitting in there. First thing is have your list of people Right, you know if you're feeling it you know, who's your list? Right, it should be about three or four, maybe five. Right, where it should be about three or four, maybe five, where you just make a phone call Call number one first, number two second, until someone's going to pick up. Generally speaking, for sure, go do something.
Speaker 1:Clean your house, do the things, get your life in order, right and hug whoever will hug you back, even if it's a stranger or an old lady or whatever you know. Just just let them know they're there and you see them and you'll be seen. You know it's. You know it sounds so practical but like it's so real.
Speaker 2:Help somebody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so real.
Speaker 2:Love somebody yeah of somebody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you, I kind of want to go back to to with your dad. You know that that reality of your dad just not being around. What kind of impact do you think that's had on your life, on this feeling that that you have to encounter every day?
Speaker 2:it probably has a lot to do with it, you know, like more than I'd like to admit, probably. I mean, but even my mom told me from like a young age she thinks she said that like she thinks depression runs in our family and she's like I think you deal with a lot of depression and so she kind of even spotted it early on. But, um, but my dad, you know, just, yeah, it's hard not having your real father in your life when, especially when he's only in los angeles, he's only like five hours away, but I mean it's far enough to the. And you know what, when I got older, like once I had kids, I that's when I finally decided to forgive him, like five years ago or something. But it was really painful growing up when, when I wanted a relationship with my father and um, and I didn't have it. But now that I'm a father and I see the struggles of life and struggles of relationships and my mom not being the most easiest person to deal, with all the time.
Speaker 2:Probably, you know I don't I don't really blame him for everything not being there, and you know you can. You can hold a grudge all your life, but is it healthy? You?
Speaker 1:know yeah that's.
Speaker 2:it's not healthy to be angry over something that's happened in the past. You can't force people to love you or be in your life, so I'm sure that's been a big problem, part of my struggle growing up or feeling of not being accepted or whatever. But that's just part of being a mature man and you know, a better father is, you know.
Speaker 2:I decided to forgive my dad and now we talk you know, a good amount, and I actually mostly did it for I want my kids to know their grandfather, you know, so I can't take that away from my kids, you know, so I can't, can't take that away from my kids.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, I mean that the core wound issues, right, the things that um our earliest remembrance of the realities, of what it means to deal with humans. You know that they will fail us right. You know, and, and you know I think, with men we're not often allowed to feel sad. You know, we're taught to rise above it right some way, without actually processing it, you know.
Speaker 1:So we easily resort to anger because that's the very next emotion that's available to us. Yeah, testosterone feeds it pretty well. Yeah, um, much competitiveness. It takes an entirely focused person I think an entirely focused male to not use anger as a vehicle to be competitive. At least I know. That's certainly that way for me.
Speaker 1:You know that I do not surf well anymore because I am not angry anymore, right, which is really weird, you know, to think that, wow, that was like my vehicle. And so, once I lost my deep-seated anger about things, all of a sudden I'm not good at stuff, you know. So it's weird to have that such a formed part of my identity, right, like, I fully identify with it. But you keep using a word called forgiveness, and forgiveness is a man, that's a juggernaut, you know, I've certainly taken the last couple years to attempt to try and understand, taken the last couple years to attempt to try and understand, like I, in my mind, I believe forgiveness is a principle that just exists and I get to participate in it because I move in and out of it. Right, I cannot forgive somebody else, right, like I can be in forgiveness for someone else, right, right, but I don't get to do it. And that process of forgiving your dad, because I don't think that you can be a healthy man without forgiving your dad in some way. You know it's hard, I think that's right. You know it's hard, I think that's right.
Speaker 1:What is the process for you as it pertains to forgiveness? You know this, truly letting go of the man. Maybe he was meant to be, that he wasn't, that he can't be now that you're seeing him as a fellow man, right, right, you know the realities of all of it, not the idealization, idealization of it, you know not. Why can't you stay with mommy? You know it's. It's like there's a lot in there, you know, because I think, you know, families are built to be together. You know that's that's why we're born into them, right? But there are things that people do that they shouldn't maybe be in that family. And you know there's at least I know, for me and others I've counseled in these situations. You know, becoming grateful that maybe someone wasn't around, even though it hurts, you know, is oftentimes in that process of learning to forgive. What has the process been like so far to continue to learn to forgive your dad?
Speaker 1:You know, for the things where you're staring at your own children and wondering what the fuck right, what the fuck were you thinking? Yeah, that you missed this moment. Yeah, like, like, I'm realizing I'm doing this thing. That never happened to me, right, you know, and you, you chose to not be here, like that loneliness, I, because I'm really glad that you brought this up, yeah, you know that it was your kids, that it really, like you know, brought the whole thing, yeah, in of like, what the fuck happened to me, like, how could someone walk out on me? Yeah, you know, because that that's, that's a, that's a heavy thought. You know, we kind of moved right past it 20, 25 minutes ago.
Speaker 1:It's like, oh, yeah, that, oh, you know, and I, I I got it good too, like what my dad was loving, he was kind and he was a good man, just wasn't around a lot. My parents went through their shit and that's their shit. They didn't involve me that much, but I still have that wound of them being apart for six years and the comings and goings and the little shitty conversations that adults have with their kids and all the stuff, probably all the ways I fuck my kids up too, which they'll let me know about it. I have the privilege of that. Oh, you and mom, you always did this. Sorry about that.
Speaker 2:You know.
Speaker 1:But this process of forgiveness that you're going through, you know that really, you know again. You're only five years in. You know it's a lifelong process For sure. What do you feel like has been the steps there?
Speaker 2:first, yeah, I think that was a lot of the pain is when I had kids and I realized how amazing they are and what an amazing process it is. Um, that was my big question. I was like how, what did I do? Or or how could you, you know, give up on something that's so amazing or so, so, so special, like this, you know? Um, yeah, so that was a lot of pain, just wondering like what, why was I or why didn't you, you know, pursue, pursue us, or, you know, want to be a part of our lives? Or, you know, there was times where, a few times, we go down there and stay for a week or then fly back and it was just my mom, and my mom and dad didn't talk at all. So, um, that made it really difficult, you know.
Speaker 2:So, but, yeah, it was just very few visits and just fewer and fewer over the years and, um, but yeah, just just having kids myself and just really questioning like why, how could you give up on a child? You know or not, want to be a part of their lives or see them grow up, or? But you know, I'm sure my mom put him through some hell or a little bit. You know he did pay his child support and stuff. You know I give him that he, you know he paid child support our whole, our whole lives. So I figure, if you're gonna pay the money, you might as well see your kids. Uh, you know, but it's been a hard process to. But you know it doesn't really. I just stopped questioning it over over time, or the older I got, the more I realized that you know, life's difficult and there's no excuse. I'm not trying to give him an excuse, but at least it gives me some, you know, a little bit of clarity that I can. Well, clarity and peace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you don't. You don't know how it was difficult for him, and that's kind of enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. It's not easy. Must must have been hard for you that you gave up on this. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know it is as someone who's who's confronted the spot where I gave up. You know it, just, you know, whatever demons I had attached to me, you know it's about 2015, when I was just like I give up, you know, like I just couldn't stay at the pace I was anymore of being a do-gooder. You know, I was just doing all. I was doing all of it, you know, just trying to run away from this overwhelming darkness that came at me.
Speaker 1:You know, like a lot, just a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of doing of things that, you know, people admired but it's like I it's, it's not enough, right, you know, to to, to face that thing, and then, you know, of course, using alcohol to numb myself from that, just to survive, yeah, um, you know, became a pretty safe vehicle, which is unfortunate but also real, right, you know. And so, climbing out of that malaise of having having, you know, taken that six years of just, you know, pulling, pulling out, you know not, not, really, not really applying myself in the space where I'd always, you know, performed, you know, especially with the last kid, but the last kid being way more amenable than maybe the older ones to, to to my process Cause he watched it Right. You know, he knew what it felt like before he watched it happen. You know, I think there's a particular level of hope that he lives with a little bit more than my older ones, do you know? And having looked, you know, I know my parents.
Speaker 1:I was left alone with them.
Speaker 2:You know once you guys left.
Speaker 1:You know there's a clarity that he gets to operate from having seen the whole thing, not just pieces of it, For sure, and not that there aren't things that won't come up in the future and whatever else. Every child has his wounds. But with all that being said, looking back in clarity about these moments that we're talking about with you, still maybe in the middle of moments I've moved past, but it doesn't mean I'm over anything there's no like great, I'm clear about that, but there's a lot I'm fuzzy about looking forward.
Speaker 2:I don't even know who I am and I know what.
Speaker 1:I've done. I know who I want to be. I know I've achieved much of that thing, but there's still a person inside of me that I don't know. I don't know them. I don't know how to behave in this space where I feel clear about things, I don't, even though I have agency for the first time in my life where I really feel like I have clear choices every day. You know it's it's hard being me right now because I don't know how to approach a day when I'm in a good mood. I'm like, oh, this is a good day, another good day. Wow, there's another one. There's a gratefulness that comes with that, which is fresh to me. I don't have to go grab it, I'm not putting it on me, that kind of thing. I don't have to go grab it, I'm not putting it on me that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:But I'm just finishing what was just six months of what I would qualify as a repentant process, where it's a combination of the meanings of those words the one looking with clarity upon things and taking that deep breath in the tree of repentance that has the deep roots and learning to have compassion on myself, therefore having compassion on others. Now I'm taking my first actual steps away from what was In the New Testament. You know, if we're going to go to our religion, you know jesus and paul were talking about. I just did six months of not operating in urgency ever, right, right, and it has been weird.
Speaker 1:I am at the club not often, yeah, yeah, anytime I feel like I have to do, unless it's work and I have to be there to meet somebody else, I don't do it. And man, is it boring number one. And then you're stuck with your thoughts, right, and you know I'm not doing all the stuff I do to stay tight, stay clean, right, and all the stuff I do to stay tight, stay clean. And as I'm just now, this is week two of I'm doing my morning workouts with my bros before I go back to the club and building up. And I got triangled twice yesterday by Chris Balthazar and my neck is killing me and thank you, todd for not showing up this morning as my get-out-of-jail-free card, because my neck is killing me.
Speaker 2:It's easy to do get triangled by Chris. Oh yeah, Chris is a nightmare.
Speaker 1:But um, what's even worse is trying to break out of Chris's triangle and thinking that you can try the body lock.
Speaker 2:He trying to get me in the body. Oh man, oh, it was terrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, there's just more pressure, like the more you try to break, it just keeps coming at you. You're like wait a minute, I thought you were at full force here and you were not. Oh yeah, you were just camping on me. But you know, in my point of learning how to do this again, learning how to restart, learning how to approach each thing, whether it's surfing, going for a walk with my wife while I was walking with my wife more often than I usually did and just being around the house a lot more. You know this thing. That is me that people think when they see me. You know I'm re-approaching it. Okay, what, what does it really like to be me? What? What does michael really want in a day?
Speaker 1:you know that process is hard, it's fuzzy, it's all hard, and if it's not hard, you're not doing the work. It's been a weird like ah, like it's hard, like all of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can be real fuzzy some days, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Those are the days that are hard, the foggy days, where it's hard to get out of your head. You know, yeah, that's when you just gotta go for a drive and go go, you know, lift some weights or something. You know, yeah, I just started doing that a little bit in my backyard. I got some weights that sit there a lot of times but, man, when you lift them, that feels good, you know. So, just a little things like that being a little more disciplined. It's easy to not be as disciplined as we should be, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. So for me, this process of forgiveness, this is my phase of forgiveness, right. It's like, okay, I don't own this, I can only live there. You know so what does it mean to forgive myself for having been an imposter all of these years and just learn to be me? You know so for you. You know, in the forgiveness stream, the forgiveness flow, you know what does forgiveness feel like for you today?
Speaker 2:As as far as forgiving myself or whatever, forgiving, just just forgiving your dad, forgiving you like, because, because it it really is a process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because the layers of content still keep coming. You forgive one thing. It's like oh shit, I forgot about that. Yeah, you know, we think about it that way.
Speaker 2:But it's a work in progress always, but I think it's a matter of, yeah, you've got to forgive yourself also. You're not just forgiving others, you've got to forgive yourself for being so hard on yourself, all those bad thoughts going through your head, feeling like you're not worthy or worth enough. But, yeah, forgiving others is. You know, it's a constant process that I'm still trying to learn. Um, you know my. When my mom died, my stepdad, um, I found out he was like dating less than six. You know, four months later he was like dating another another lady. You know I I saw pictures on Facebook. He's remarried less than six months after my mom's death. I'm still having a hard time grasping. People are their own people, especially when you're older.
Speaker 2:His excuse is it's lonely when you're older, like his excuses. You know it's lonely when you're old and you know you want, you need a companion, this and that, but it's also hard to lose him. My mom, you know, in such an unexpected time, and so I've been having issues with you know I still haven't forgave him for that, you know. So there's, there's I have a lot of um work to be done as far as forgiving in many different areas, you know, and it's just part of life. You know, one of my brothers we got into it a little bit too, just like a dumb argument and just a bunch of stuff was said and that shouldn't have been said and it's just like it was, just like a dumb argument over like we're doing, like a family picture of my house with
Speaker 1:like my family and like two brothers other families and like someone says something stupid, then all of a sudden it's on.
Speaker 2:My brother was trying to take the picture and, like you know, maybe I shouldn't even say it, but he was just trying to take the picture on his phone with um and he was like looking at everyone on the screen, you know, and I was trying to tell him oh, you can like, or he was doing it this way, you know, trying to look through it this way, and you know, I'm like you could push this little button, push the screen around so you could see what you're doing. That's just what started it.
Speaker 1:And like it is the stupidest little argument turned into, like now we're not even talking to each other right now it's something deeper. If it's not one thing, it's another sometimes as far as personal growth, let's hit one more topic because I think it's relevant to the conversation and I have found for me personally, my idealism is the thing that's gotten in the way the most right you know, and whatever competitive juggernaut thing that I was raised in.
Speaker 1:whatever we're calling Santa Cruz, whatever we're calling Mike Howard in Santa Cruz, right, you know this guy, this image the thing you know that is and and and, with all the beauty and the talent that's here, you know how we're left feeling, which is like nothing If you don't get the thing that you thought you know, the stuff, all of it.
Speaker 1:How much do you think idealism plays a role for you that harms you? You know of like you know, this balance of you want to aspire to more, but you know I don't know a comparison to all that I'm not. You know, instead of all that I truly am, and I did a lot of damage to myself. That's what I'm looking back, looking at intensive competitive. You know, good human, that I was still felt horribly incomplete, but it was this thing lodged in my brain of what I should be right as opposed to what I am, and really living in acceptance like holy, not just acceptance of me, but like like things are perfect right now.
Speaker 1:I just don't know it yeah, how much do you think that plays out with you?
Speaker 2:Um, well, I think I just I just like I just have two highest standards probably. Maybe sometimes I just want I think a lot of it comes from like financial stability in this town is what a lot of my stress comes from. You know like I feel like I'm not really that stressed when I have the bills are paid and I'm you know good money's coming in and this and that. So it's easy to get overwhelmed in this town and just because it's just a constant battle, even if you get ahead like yeah, you got 15 000 bucks in the bank.
Speaker 1:One day, all of a sudden, you're like wait a minute, it's negative 15 bucks what?
Speaker 2:totally what happened? Oh, it could be quite depressing. April 15th happened. That's what happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's just a constant battle and always wanting more for myself and just, but it's hard not to in this world you know you see so much like wonderful things out there. You know, you know, I want all that good stuff and you know.
Speaker 2:But sometimes you just got to be, take a step back and just realize, you know, you're pretty blessed with what you got. You know I'm healthy, my kids are healthy, I got people that care about me, I got good friends. You know, sometimes it gets a little lonely, like I said, when you're a father. Not everybody's hitting you up, but they're busy doing their own things. But, yeah, sometimes you just got to be content with what you got, because I watched this one video recently and, like, everything is so available for us Like you know, it wasn't that long ago that they didn't even have, like, hot showers, and you know, like, and so everything's so readily available.
Speaker 2:We can travel anywhere you know, buses and trains, and you know, it's just that we got food at our fingertips, like. We have it so easy, like, but we've so easy like, but we've, as a society, we've we like to complain about everything you know, or some, some people do, you know, it's easy to feel like take the victim's mentality or whatever and just feel like forget how grateful we are and forget that we live in the most beautiful place in the world, and you know we're doing a podcast right now.
Speaker 2:You know there's other countries that you know they wish they had food and water, and you know. So we really got to just remember how, how thankful we should be and how much we have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, I want to want to leave it on this note if we can, yeah you know, because I I think it's important for you to hear. You know how, how you're seen. Yeah, you know that in my experience with you, you know, as a human, you know the, the desperate 48 year old that showed up right, just I don't know, just wanting connections somewhere outside of what I had known. Right, you know, I didn't want to have to be the mike howard that I had been for everybody else that in that world right, you know this, this place.
Speaker 1:You know we call jujitsu, but there's way more going on there than than we could ever imagine. Absolutely well, all the different walks of life that are sitting there the cops, the criminals, the attorneys, the all the things, the doctors you know, uh, who you have been to me.
Speaker 1:I have experienced nothing but kindness from you and when I look at you, I see a man who, first and foremost, loves his family, who's a really, really good dad, who's a hard worker, who loves life, who loves the people around him in ways that other people don't love them Like. You show up, you show up with food, you show up with who you are as a whole person. You show up and bring a kindness that wasn't there before. You know you make it available from everybody. They didn't bring it, you brought it with you and you know, looking back, I don't want to imagine my life without you on that mat. It's always been a blessing to me. You are a blessing to me.
Speaker 1:I really really appreciate just who you are as a person. Even though we're not close, you know it's not like, you know, other than a few hugs when your mom died. You know, and just seeing you and seeing where you're at, there's not a lot between us. There's just pieces of food that I've eaten, that you've cooked, you see, and enjoyed For sure. You know this heart of giving. That's in your heart. You wear it everywhere.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:It's not like I'm not saying anything anybody else wouldn't say about you, right? That's my point. I really appreciate that. You know that what we see is very different than what you see. And if the only takeaway from that, from all of this conversation, the seven years we've been together, is that we see you very differently than you see yourself, just know that so you can borrow our thoughts. I really appreciate that. Borrow our thoughts. So, brady, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for the kind words.
Speaker 1:It means a lot, yeah yeah. Thanks means a lot. Yeah yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate this opportunity.
Speaker 2:It's been great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks. Well, it's really great to talk to you and well, all of you all have a good rest of your day. Thanks, buddy, catch you later Right on.