Unpacked In Santa Cruz

Episode 65: Chris Balthasar: From Hollywood Sets To Hexavalent Chromium: A Life Rewritten By Santa Cruz, Service, and Resilience

• Mike Howard

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The story starts with following Chris Balthasar from a Swiss-American childhood in Philadelphia and winds through Hollywood backlots, a B-movie alligator, and a surreal day in a Sonic the Hedgehog suit getting heckled by Tony Danza all day-then pivots into law, environmental advocacy, and a move to Santa Cruz that finally felt like home. Chris takes us on a  winding road with uncommon honesty, connecting big breaks and bigger heartbreaks to the simple habits that keep him grounded: food choices with purpose, a community that welcomes you as you are, and the discipline of Jiu-Jitsu.

We explore how a single book, Diet for a New America, reshaped his view of health and ethics and led to meaningful work with EarthSave. We dig into his time at a major plaintiffs’ firm in what turned into the movie Aaron Brockovich without him even knowing. He shares the emotional whiplash of career shifts, and why Santa Cruz’s quirky, collaborative culture changed his sense of belonging. Along the way, we talk candidly about wealth sitting beside work boots, street music and science labs, and a shared commitment to the redwoods and the bay that cuts across politics.

Jiu-Jitsu threads it all together. Chris trained at the original Gracie academies in the early 90s, stepped away for years, then came back in a personal storm—businesses failing, marriage ending, savings evaporating. The mat became therapy and tribe. He set a terrifying goal, entered the Pan Ams, which is one of the most important tournaments in the US, and walked out with gold and no points scored against him. We unpack how trust, mercy, and presence define the art, why fundamentals beat fads, and how the sport has evolved without losing its heart. 

Gratitude, he says, is the real engine: waking up healthy, loved, and in a place that fits.

If you’re navigating change, looking for a community that heals, or curious how Santa Cruz quietly reshapes people, this conversation will land. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs some hope, and leave a review to help others find the show.

SPEAKER_01:

It's on as I just turned it on right now. Welcome to the End Back in Santa Cruz podcast, folks. I'm your host, Michael Howard. This podcast is brought to you today by Point Side Beach Shack. It's a great place to go celebrate an event of 50 people or less right in the heart of uh 41st Avenue. Great spot. Uh next person, next sponsor of Santa Cruz Vibes magazine. Santa Cruz Vibes has a website, and uh on that website you can find most of the really cool things that go on in town. Of course, they have a wonderful magazine uh that is great expression of this area. Anyways, I I I uh sitting here with a friend uh that I will introduce to you shortly, but I I I do want to rehearse a little bit uh uh what it is that that's going on here. And uh for me, what I want to continue to express to all of you is is that there's a piece of normalcy that that I think that that can get lost with us. And for me right now, in the point in my life with the people that I'm interviewing, is I'm wanting to take the time to just celebrate normality, the people that are around us, uh the everyday conversations that we seem to be skipping. And this weird voyeuristic thing that we're calling podcasts, where we're either you know giving a lot of content out or or trying to find new ways of expression to hear voices uh that we wouldn't naturally hear because of media. It's wonderful, but in in in reality, um you know, my real agenda just is is to get to know people. And sitting across from me is is another one of these black belts that I got to uh come to to a safe spot. And um I didn't think I was gonna tear up on this one. Um uh at least when I showed up, uh really broken, um, got got to show up with a friend of ours, Matt Grenier, and this is was my first instructor. He is the first guy that taught a class to me. Me? Yeah, you really yes. Wow, you've already opened up something I didn't know. Yeah, yeah, no, no, and and uh and it it was just a really wonderful time where I got to meet a lot of friends, uh including this one. Was I teaching the class that you were you were teaching the class on a Saturday, you were filling in for Claudio. Yeah, and I do that, and and he does that, and uh I was showing up on Saturdays.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh I was nice to you.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, you were very nice to me, but but it it it it he is one of the expressions that I didn't expect when I showed up. And I know you all have heard a bunch of jujitsu conversations. Uh uh you know, the previous conversations have been from just straight up jujitsu people, people that have dedicated their whole lives to it. And uh it's been really fun to hear that. But I also wanted you all to hear about the diversity of of this spot and and the many types of people that that end up with a belt around their waist that takes 12 years or more to get. Um, you know, upon seeing this person, that wouldn't be the first thing you naturally think about them. Uh uh total killer on the other side, but somebody who would never do it. And uh with the with with that in mind, I would like to welcome Chris Balthazar to the podcast. Chris, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, thank you. Honored to be here. Yeah, already having a good time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, Chris is already here in my life story. He's starting to get bored, so he turned the microphones off. I'm just messing with them. Uh so Chris, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00:

Hmm. Yeah, where to start? Um uh all right, well, you know, uh you could start from a lot of places, I guess. But you know, maybe life story. I grew up in Philadelphia, had a very blessed uh childhood, you know, um almost a you know, I felt like a privileged life. Um my mom was Swiss, um, and so I grew up in a sort of European household and uh um traveled to Europe every summer to go visit, you know, family and cousins and things like that.

SPEAKER_01:

And um, I have a Swiss audience, so which town is your is your mom?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm from the French part, um uh in a little town called Bulle near Lausanne. Okay. Um, yeah. And uh Switzerland Love Switzerland, love Switzerland, you know, the raclett, the phonie, the mountains, the the cows, the bells, the all of it. Um and uh, you know, got to go to a really good you know good uh college um on the East Coast, and uh and then uh after college went to work with my dad um in the family business. He had a small publishing company. And I didn't know it then, but um turned out those were like the last two years of his life. And he uh he knew that he had a uh uh terminal disease. It was like a an anemia um that there was no cure for back then there is now. And uh and so I worked with him um and then he died and kind of left me like wondering, well, now what am I gonna do? Because I kind of thought, you know, maybe that would that would be my career, you know. And um so I didn't know what to do. And uh ended up in in Florida. My mom and I went to Florida because he died right before Christmas. And um, some people might know when you have a loved one die right before Christmas, like there's no Christmas to be had, you know. And so my girlfriend at the time was Jewish, and so we went and spent spent Christmas with the Jews in Florida. That was about as far away as we could get. I was like, oh man. And while I was down there, I met this guy named Mike, Mike Zach, really good guy, still a good friend. I haven't seen him in years, but um, he was a writer, a young guy, um a couple years older than me. He was working as a writer out in Hollywood, and uh he said, Well, I hear they're they're they're hiring people for the National Easter Seals Telethon, they're hiring um production assistants. I was like, that sounds like fun. Go out and work in Hollywood, you know, be a production assistant. It's like, yeah. And so I gave me the phone number of this lady. I called her up, and uh she didn't know I was in Philadelphia. She figured I was in LA or something, and she's like, Well, when can you start? And I was like, you know, in a week. And she's like, okay. So I packed up the car. I was like, I don't know if I'll be back in a month or a year or what, but I'm just gonna go see what happens. I went and slept on Mike's couch for a few uh, you know, weeks till I found a place.

SPEAKER_01:

Which part of LA were you in?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh in Hollywood. I ended up in North Hollywood. Then I lived in Santa Monica. I lived in Hollywood Boulevard um for a while at the corner of Sunset and La Brea. That was exciting. There's a strip strip club right up on the corner. It was great, man. I was like 24 and life was great. And it was an exciting time, you know, and the world was my oyster. And uh so I lived in LA um for a few years. But the entertainment industry, it's funny, my career kind of simultaneously went up and it went down. Like I got more and more responsibility from production assistant to production coordinator. I was a production manager on a project. But at the same time, I went from working on feature films. I started out working on this B movie about a giant alligator that runs around the sewers and eating people. But I got to work with the the special effects guys, and you know, it's like it was just so fun because all I'd ever done was just kind of like academia, you know, college and philosophy major and stuff like that. Now here I am, you know, helping spray paint a giant mechanical alligator. You know, so I was like, this is cool. But I went from feature films, uh, I worked with the um producers of Ghost, um, and uh, you know, and they were doing, they were working on um uh Star Trek Six, and I had to deliver a package to the set of Star Trek Stick and Six, and there's Leonard Nimoy and all these Klingons walking around drinking coffee, reading their scripts. I was like, this is just cool. You know, but I went from that to like working um on cable TV, on HBO, one night stand comedy specials, and then from HBO, I went down to um uh reality TV in the early days, um, totally hidden video, where we'd go out and it was like a candid camera show, we'd pull pranks on people. Um, and then all of a sudden I found myself working on a commercial in Spanish for Blue Cross Insurance with Ricardo Moltalban. And I was like, this is not what I pictured, you know, Hollywood, you know, going. And um, so I started applying um to law school because I thought, well, you know, I was really interested in uh in the environmental movement at the time. And I thought, well, I can get into environmental law or I can get into entertainment law. And right before law school, I was really desperate for money. I ended up, I needed money, and I got a call from somebody like, hey, um, we need somebody to wear a Sonic the Hedgehog suit at uh Universal Studios for a shoot we're doing for some, I don't know what the hell it was, some you know, special. And I was like, okay. And so then I'm at Universal and had this suit on, and it was like, and and it was like this giant, I don't know if you ever saw Sonic the Hedgehog, it was this giant ball, like, and so like there's no peripheral vision. I could hardly see. And I'm wearing these tights, and my legs are really long and skinny. So I look absolutely ridiculous. And I had to just appear in these shots as the mascot, right? And um, Tony Danza was there, and he was like the main star of it. And he decided it'd be fun to just make fun of me and my chicken legs and stuff. So he's just giving me giving me crap about how I look and insulting me and stuff. And I was like, God, this guy, and I'm just hot and sweaty in there. And then I go backstage, and there's like, I'm with the Frankenstein guy and the other guys, and you're like, So, how long you been doing character work? And I'm like, is that what this is called? Like, I thought this was called just making you know 50 bucks. And it's like, I don't do character work, man. I'm just desperate. I'm going to law school in a couple weeks. And so I went to law school. Um, and uh boy, I'm really getting into detail. No, it's great. Yeah, I gotta keep going.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, well, I can I can wrap it up pretty quick. Um, ended up working for um uh Tom Girardi, who if uh he's the subject of a special um he was one of the biggest plaintiffs' attorneys, one of the biggest plaintiffs' firms uh on the West Coast and uh ended up working on um a uh case called um Anderson versus PGE, which um was later made into the movie Aaron Brockovich. Okay. Um and I was the uh So you just can't leave the media. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's funny because I had no idea who Aaron Brockovich was. You know, I never heard of her. You know, um, but if you've seen the movie, like at the end of near the end of the movie, they bring in this fat cat lawyer to like bury them in paperwork and stuff, and that was my boss. But um, but really what he did was he came to me on a Friday afternoon and said, Hey, um, I need you to write a medical brief on hexavalent chromium and establish causation, how that could have caused all these diseases and birth defects and stuff. And I was like, okay. So um, so I locked myself in the uh uh medical library at UCSC uh USC medical library for the weekend and wrote this brief and uh put it on his desk Sunday morning and he read it. He's like, This is great. And he ended up taking it to the hearing on Monday and winning like the largest settlement in the history of settlements at the time, like$700 million. But I never heard of Aaron Brockovich, you know. I just and like years later, I went to the movies with my wife and I was watching the movie, and I was like, Oh, this is interesting. I I worked on a case involved, oh yeah, hexabatic chromium, yeah, that was the same as mine. And then I was like, wait a minute, this is this is this is the case I worked on. The funny thing was, not funny actually, he promised me like a thousand dollar bonus for working all weekend to do it, and the bastard never paid me. Like I finally went in and Giramardi, where's my money? There's a full-time line in it. He's a black belt now. Yeah, I wasn't then, right? But um, yeah, I went in and I asked him about it. He got indignant and threw me out of his office. But um, now if you read the news, like if he's not doing so well, he ended up on like Real Housewives and Yeah, I I I mean I I know the name, I just you know anyway. So um after that, uh I got stories, I gotta keep it short, but I got uh you don't have to keep it short, you just keep going.

SPEAKER_01:

This is great.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, after fodder people, let's go. After that, I mean yeah, you want to get to know me. So after that, um okay, so I'd read this book um short before law, shortly before law school called Diet for New America. It was written by John Robbins, um, who um was actually the son of the Robbins of Baskin Robbins.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And so his dad was, you know, this uh ice cream chain icon. And John Robbins, um, who recently passed away, lives in Santa Cruz, um, wrote the book Diet for New America, which was kind of, you know, his parents said you did this to punish us because his book was all about, you know, eating low on the food chain, eating a plant-based diet, and how, you know, the American standard American diet was not only, you know, killing people with diet-related diseases, but also um contributing to, you know, um environmental you know problems, you know, livestock production, all that cow farts, you know. So um a lot of people who read that book like just became vegetarians like after they finished reading it. And it started a huge movement, like millions of people. And uh a nonprofit organization was born out of it called Earth Save International that was based right here in Santa Cruz. And so I'd read this book and it had changed my life. I stopped eating meat and um you know, and I was I was a hardcore vegetarian for a long time, like 25 years, you know. Even to this day, I'm I'm vegetarian like five, six days a week, you know. I only eat I don't eat red meat, but I'll eat fish and sometimes chicken, you know, like when I'm out or when it comes up. Anyway, so I you know was holding on to this while I was in law school. And um my last year of law school, I'm sending out resumes to law firms, you know, I'm trying to like get a job, right? Yeah, because I'm running out of you know school here and I didn't think I wanted to work for Girardi forever. And uh, you know, but these were jobs I was probably gonna be miserable in, you know. I just wasn't really cut out to being a you know that kind of attorney anyway. Um, and so I go to bed and it's like one o'clock in the morning, and I've like finally closed my computer and I'm trying to go to sleep, and all of a sudden I just sit up in bed and I'm like, I'm gonna send a resume to John Roberts. And I was like, are you stupid? What are you doing? You're wasting your time, but like I just was possessed, right? I just like had to do it. So I get up, I dash off a letter to him, I um put put a put the resume in there. I I had written, I had drawn some cartoons. I was for a while trying to make it as a cartoonist. And so I had a little self-published book of cartoons. I threw that in there to like give him something to read, right? And the next day, so this is gonna get interesting, the next day I call Ursave International, I say, Hey, I want to send John Robbins a present, you know, and a resume. And this lady answers the phone and she's like, Oh, okay, well, you sound nice. And so we get to talking, and she um, you know, she likes me, so she says, you know, go ahead and send it, I'll make sure he gets it. And so when my letter came, she made sure it went in the little pile that his wife Deo would come pick up once a week to for John to actually read, as opposed to these sacks of fan mail that he could never get through. So a few weeks later, I come back from a concert and my answering machine is blinking, and I pick it up and hi Chris, this is John Robbins calling. And I'm like, my jaw drops. I'm like, holy shit, the guy called me. I can't I just rewound it like five times. Like, hi Chris, this is John Robbins. Hi, Chris, this is John Robinson. I was like, I can't believe it. Call my friends to listen to this. Hi, Chris, this is John Robbins. And so um, long story short, I ended up working for Ursave International, and I ended up starting a program for them. Uh, they had a healthy school lunch program, and I started that in um in Venice, Venice High School, and I did that for a while. And they ended up hiring me out of um out of my law firm. And so there I was working um, you know, in my underwear in my apartment in Santa Monica, um, writing grants and doing stuff for Earth Save. And it was like one of the few jobs I had where like I got up and like it's like if I had won the lottery, I you know, I would have still come to work every morning because I just believed in what we were doing. I loved it. I thought everybody needs to understand this, you know, everybody needs to appreciate, you know, the impact of you know modern agriculture and our food choices and all that. And so I was very passionate about it. And for a while we were trying to start a Natural Foods Council to compete with the beef and dairy councils to try to, you know, but that didn't work out. And um, but the funny thing is, one day they called me and said, Hey, come up for a board meeting. This is how I got to Santa Cruz.

SPEAKER_01:

Um well that saves my second question.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So uh there's a board meeting, and uh, they said, you know, why don't you fly up um and you know, want to meet once you meet everybody? Because the board had put up my salary for the first year. And uh, and so and the woman I was working with, um, Susan, who's still a good friend of mine, she's like, you know, I'm staying in this house for the summer and there's a spare bedroom, you can stay there, you know. And so I walk in the door of this house, and there's this woman, and she's really gorgeous, and she's cooking, and it smells good, and the house is beautiful, and she's wearing these short shorts. And I was like, it was kind of like love at first sight. And I was like, this is what I want it to feel like every time I come into the door. And that was my first wife. Um, and uh, so I, you know, finally I realized I'm in Los Angeles with this great rent controlled department, you know, in Santa Monica, but I got a job in Santa Cruz, I got a girlfriend in Santa Cruz. What am I doing in LA? You know, and so I packed it up and I moved here.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, the rent was cheaper up here back then.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yeah, it was yeah, it was pretty it was good. Yeah, it was very good. It was very good. We ended up living in Cortalitos for like$1,200 a month in this beautiful farmhouse with like miles of just farmland around us and stuff. And uh, you know, at first I felt like a big fish in a small pond, you know. I was wondering if I was gonna, you know, like it here because everywhere I went, I would get there like 45 minutes early. Because you know, when you go to the movies in LA, you have to like allow 20 minutes for the freeway, 20 minutes to find parking, 20 minutes for the line, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Everything costs five bucks no matter what you touch.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I would get to the movie theater in Santa Cruz and like park right in front. I spend five minutes trying to this can't be legal parking. How did I just get a parking space? Uh it can't be legal. It was like I don't see any signs. And uh, you know, uh I got used to Santa Cruz really fast, you know. And and uh it ended up being a great place to you know raise a family and have kids. And we started a business, and I can go on, but you know, that's how I got to Santa Cruz anyway.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I again I think this is good for our audience because it's you know mostly people not from here. You know, the juxtapose, you know, of what people perceive about California, but but but really specifically LA to Santa Cruz. I lived in LA for a year. I'm familiar with it, I could only handle it a year. You know, just this thing of like LA, everything's important. You know, everybody's trying to be important, it you know, it is important. Yeah, you know, it has this edge to it, on top of being the metropolitan area, which is a weird use of the term, seeing that it really isn't a city.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's kind of a sprawling suburb. Yeah, it's weird.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, and overco over COVID, I you know, I don't know if you got to drive through LA during COVID. No, it it only takes 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, when you actually have no traffic.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but there's no traffic. I peed in the middle of the 405 at the airport and I waved at a high patrolman. You know, like it was only one of five cars that passed. But like it was weird to see how small that city is, like in real life. Like our county's bigger, like it's longer. You know, it takes longer to drive when the roads are clearer than it does to drive through LA. But but how LA feels it's so oppressive and and like it just has this weight to it. You know, I mean, being from here, I thought I wanted something like that. I I was in a different media side than you were when I was down there. But you know, you're there with the important people trying to find the important people. People that are talking to you, you don't want to talk to the people you want to talk to you won't talk to you. It's just it's just a weird difference between the bet between the two.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, I got used to this really fast. And yeah, now it's like, oh god, I could go back. But I honestly I liked it when I was down there, but I just didn't know better.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was your your first experience of uh of California.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it was California, palm trees. The only time I saw palm trees was when I was on vacation when I was a kid growing up.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, when you went to Florida with the Jews. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

It took like two hours to get to the Jersey Shore from where I live. So, you know, wake up every day and see a palm tree out your window, I thought I'd made it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. So um, kids, you mentioned uh two?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, two kids. Yeah, Xander and Faye.

SPEAKER_01:

Both grown?

SPEAKER_00:

Um yeah, both grown. Faye is in college at UC uh at uh Santa Barbara City College, kicking ass um in biology and chemistry and just loving what she's doing, um, what they're doing. They, she she's a they. I gotta remember that. And Xander is um 24. He's a very, very good bluebelt in GS.

SPEAKER_01:

I I I don't roll with Xander. I I've got supposedly years on him, but no.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I roll with him, but it's you know, yeah, he's he's a handful. It's involved. But that's what I wanted for him. I wanted to be a handful. And uh yeah, and he's doing really well running uh uh an outdoor survival skill school up in Shasta. And you know, both what I love is that both my kids are you know loving their lives and doing what they're passionate about, which honestly, like you know, I had tastes of over my life, but you know, most of my life, you know, I was just making money and trying to survive, you know. So I'm really happy that you know that's where they're at in life, and I'm hoping that they just continue on that path.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. So let's circle back to to a couple things. You know, so you moved to Santa Cruz, and like like what is it about Santa Cruz that really you know makes this feel like home to you? You know, because there's something about this place that if it hits you, it just is you. Um certainly a lot of people that don't like Santa Cruz or like the perception of Santa Cruz. Um I'm from here, I didn't know anything different. Uh I think there were certainly times in my life where I thought I wanted to get out. Now I love it more than anything. Just for its people, let alone you know, its its presence. Uh you know, for you when when you think about the things that caught you. You know, yeah, you had a job, yeah, you had a girlfriend that became your wife, but what was it that caught you?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I can tell you, I immediately felt at home here, which was kind of weird. And I haven't really thought about this in a long time. But like I never felt like I belonged in Philadelphia. Like I always couldn't wait to get out. And it's funny because I go back now and I think, oh, this is a great town, you know, but I never felt like I wanted to live there. Um and um, you know, LA was good until I got out. But when I got here, um it was really it was during that EarthSave thing, you know, um with John Robinson I was telling you about. And um, and it was like they were all, I mean, for lack of better words, you know, it was kind of like a hippie culture, it was a hippie vibe. And I hadn't really, you know, thought of myself as a hippie, and I still kind of don't, but I guess I kind of am, you know. But I definitely resonate with that, you know, kind of free spirit, you know, love, peace, eating healthy, doing good things, you know, loving community. And I was like, wow, I never experienced anything like that, you know, certainly not in Philadelphia, and not really in LA. And I was like, wow, this is kind of like I feel like this is kind of like my tribe. And I don't necessarily resonate with that tribe so much anymore, but um, but it was the first place I felt like like welcomed for just who I was and what my values were and what I, you know, believed, which is interesting because there's such a diverse community here that you know that's not that's not the norm necessarily, you know, it's just one part of this place. Yeah, but it was the part I found and I found it.

SPEAKER_01:

But but it is the perception of this place. I mean most people think there's just a bunch of hippies here. They do, not knowing that you know, uh like my my wife is a very classic example of a closeted hippie. Yeah. Right, right. You you wouldn't know it by the way we dress, the way we talk, anything like that. But you know, spare the spare the free love and and you know, constant chronic, you know, being being smoked. Uh it really like she's i i she didn't know she had a hippie heart until she was here. Yeah, you know, like that's pretty much my story, yeah. Yeah, i i it it's it's weird how it's that way. And and again, you and I both know some ultra conservative folks, yeah, you know, gun-totin Republicans, but but they're hippies at heart.

SPEAKER_00:

Like it's just somehow you can relate to them and love them just as much, you know. They're good people.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, yeah. There's something that transcends politics and value values like that about this place.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. And it it was you know, because I you know, I have friends all over the place, and and you know, certainly many of them are conservative and they talk about this town. It's like you actually don't like it, it's it's really weird. You know, like like we actually all get along even in the not getting along. Right. Like we have this thing in common, and and for the most part, anybody who lives here just appreciates the environment in a way that like you know, you'd be like for those of you around around the world, around the country, like environmentalism is just a natural position that almost anybody who's from here takes or lives here. Because it it's it has that you know, we're j we are just in nature somehow, yeah, in this spot, and the appreciation for it is so deep. It is it's just resonant, and and you know, you you'll hear at least I hear, you know, people complaining about stuff, then all of a sudden it's like, yeah, we need to take care of this thing. It's the last thing you'll you'd think you'd hear from a conservative person. You know, like like it's so important because we get to experience the environment in such a great way every day. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I think, yeah, I think the I think everybody here appreciates and loves the the environmental diversity. You know, the fact that we've got mountains, we've got beaches, we've got redwoods. You can be in Big Sur in an hour and a half, one of the most beautiful places on earth, you know. Um, you could be in San Francisco in an hour and you could be in a city. I mean, there's so much, and I think, yeah, I think that common love is probably one one of the glues that holds us together. Yeah. It's just that this is a unique, cool place, and it's it's got great restaurants, you know, it's got it's got a lot to offer.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. No, it well, I I I think the well, the thing that peeves me the most about this place, and it really does, is we produce some of the best produce in the world. And it gets shipped everywhere else. We don't actually unless you know, unless you're at the farmers market. Right. But even there you're you're still getting the B-grade stuff. You know, the good stuff's going to go to Orange County in North San Diego. Like it's super frustrating. You know, but but it but it is this amazing, like it it's normal to us to eat eat food, to experience life a particular way, that it that it doesn't feel right, you know, to to not be that that way or conscious of those things. And it's across the board, you know, that I've noticed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

We also have like fun culture, you know. I mean, you know, the the bumper sticker says, you know, keep Santa Cruz weird. And it's not super weird. Although, you know, when my wife first moved here, she grew up, uh Lisa grew up in uh Pacific Grove, which is a little more, you know, conservative, you know, button-collared, you know, kind of environment. And um when she got here, you know, she had to get used to going to the grocery store and seeing people with blue hair and you know, nose rings and stuff. But you know, she's used to that now. And um, you know, it's like it's fun here. You know, you walk down the street and you've got musicians playing, and sometimes they suck, but sometimes they're really good. And you know, you've got, you know, we've got gone to burlesque shows and we've gone to, you know, um interesting music and plays and concerts, and and it's just, you know, you've got like Abbott Square, you know, it's like a really fun place to hang out, all kinds of people. And I don't know, I just it's a lot more fun for us, actually. You know, she likes it here. She doesn't really, you know, she misses Pacific Grove, but she's like, I don't know if I really want to live there. I would miss, I would miss Santa Cruz.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean Pacific Grove is so quaint. Yeah, it's very quiet and quintessential. Central coasty, yeah, quaint, you know, uh loafers and khakis.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It's a great place to live, it's beautiful, but it's maybe a little boring.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And Santa Cruz isn't boring. Yeah, you know, and and and it's a nice place to to be, even if you want to be bored, just knowing that there's all this good stuff out there, yeah, you know, um, going on if you want.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, I I I share that expression with you. Like it it it's the quirkiness used to drive me nuts. You know, that that people came here to be quirky. And you know, I I think the experience when I grew up was probably a lot more quirky than it is now with the amount of money that's that's uh located itself here, yeah. You know, which which has a tendency to stifle you know that that uh and the quirkiness has advanced into you know a type of drug problem, you know, that was different than the homeless problem that that we had growing up. Uh but but it really does have this diverse feel because again, for whatever reason, you know, Chris and I are sitting here, you know, he's staring at a front row in front of me. These these this is executive row. You know, it it it's uh it's just a strange strange experience to have the super wealth and the salt of the earth people all together. And you could not tell the difference between the two unless you saw the vehicle they they they got in.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And there just aren't many communities in the world where where it feels that way that you could be standing next to a multi-billionaire and you would never know it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that is yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. That is a unique feature of this town that is beautiful. You know, we're all kind of just humbly homogeneous in that sense, you know, at least a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So how do you think Santa Cruz has changed you? You you know, it it's like, you know, you're a Pennsylvania kid, uh you know, you show up to LA, LA has its own shape, you know, uh you know, it it's buttoned up in a lot of ways, you know. Uh it has its eccentricities, you know, with pulling all the vagabonds that LA does of people who want to be famous. Uh you know, Santa Cruz has a very similar attraction, you know, and that that i it's mostly people who wander who stay here. Uh-huh. Uh so it's a different kind of net. You know, how how do you think that this net shaped you? You know, and maybe to the parent that you became, all that kind of thing, because because you do have a unique background of of somebody I've interviewed that I didn't realize that that your parents were were Swiss. Just you know, but but the but aga again that strong East Coast reality of you you come from somewhere. You know, the the Swiss are are a great people, so certainly not expressing anything, but but the trains do run on time.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And and uh you know, the East Coast runs. On time for the most part, you know, but does Santa Cruz run on time? It's getting there.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't take public transport that much, so I wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_01:

But you know, the the this this new thing that you acquired, you know, as I'm hearing it, you know, you you got impacted by a book that that changed the way you think about food, which changed the way you see the world. Yes. Um you feel like home here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, the that that's a very internal concept, you know, that that, you know, the stomach, as we know, health-wise is everything.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, what what what is the stomach thing? You know, here that that you feel like, wow, this this thing actually shaped a whole worldview and this this is what makes this place unique.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, interestingly, I mean, you know, that book got I mean, that organization that brought me here, and all, you know, that was that was here, it sort of drew drew me in. Um I I don't know how much Santa Cruz changed me so much as just the the the people who were already drawn there, you know, inspired me to come here and to thrive. And I think mostly it was just a a cradle for me to just be myself, to, to, to relax into who I felt comfortable being all along, but I could finally really enjoy being that person. Yeah, I guess. And that's the easiest way to to to say it. I mean, it's hard to quantify how I've necessarily changed since I've been here, but it's more like I just was freed to be who I wanted to be here, you know. You know, I guess that's the best I can.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, uh well, I it's well put. You know, it it it yeah, I haven't put it put that heard it put that way, but but yeah, you know, the the safe to be yourself, you know, and again, you know, interesting community, you know. I hard have hardly anything in common with any of my neighbors, and yeah, it's a safe cradle. Yeah, yeah, fascinating. Yeah, so uh we mentioned it before. Uh jujitsu. How we met, you know, this this oddly, you know, I I love how Claudio put it, this this odd democracy, you know, on the mat, you know, where everybody's welcome, you have a vote, there is a hierarchy, but you know, jujitsu just is.

SPEAKER_00:

It's kind of like a microcosmos for what Santa Cruz is for us, you know? Yeah. A little cradle where you're welcome to just be yourself and as diverse as you are.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So what got you into jujitsu? Like, like what was what was the what was the thing?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, this is a fun story. So um, well, uh back in Philly, I'd always been interested in martial arts, like my whole life. Like I remember when I was a kid, I'd whenever I was flipping through the yellow pages, not a kid, like you know, high school, college, I'd flip through looking for whatever. And every time you know martial arts school would go by or karate or whatever, I'd I'd stop. I'm like, ooh, I'd always like catch my eye. But I didn't know back then to like listen to those things. I just was like, you know, okay, whatever. And finally, when I got out of college, um, I uh started studying Kempo karate. I found a school near me and I got really into it for three years. You know, I was training like four or five days a week and um competing and stuff. And I got up to Brown Belt, second degree, but I was like about a year away from getting my black belt, and that's when my dad died, and I ended up moving to you know LA. And when I got to LA, all the schools were different, and so the katas were different and the techniques were different, and I felt I was frustrated because I felt like I wasn't a brown belt anymore. I couldn't, I didn't know the moves they knew, and and the school ended up being like 45 minutes from where I lived, and so I and then I never away. Yeah. No, I was at one point I was driving for Santa Monica to Pasadena in traffic and it wasn't working. No, it's true though. It's funny. Um, and so I never, you know, never got my black belt in karate. And I was like, uh, you know, whatever. And um, when I was working in the law firm, um the one of the law clerks I worked with, um, buddy of mine, he was a taekwondo black belt, which you could relate to. And um, and uh we so we were all talking, talking martial arts all the time. And one day he comes into my cubicle and he's like, dude, I've been I've been training this new martial art, man. It's the coolest martial art. I feel like I learned more in three weeks than I learned in like three years at Taekwondo, man. You got to check it out. And I was like, Well, what is it? He's like, it's called Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I was like, Brazilian Jiu, all right, well, okay, and it sounded exciting. And so I ended up um going to um what was the original Gracie Academy in Torrance, you know, because it was about you know 40 minutes from where I was living. And um, and back then it was like a small little school, you know, I think just a few steps up from the garage they had been in, you know. This was this was 1993. Okay, yeah, yeah. About very early two months before UFC number one. This is like the summer of '93. And in walks Hori and Gracie, you know, and he's like shows me how to do a colour choke. The first guy I ever choked with a color choke was Hori and Gracie. Wow. Yeah. I mean, he let me do it. I made him tap, you know, he's like, good, good, good job. And uh, but I got, you know, I thought I felt pretty good as a brown belt karate, but I was getting tossed around the mat by like, you know, guys who like were 100 pounds, you know, and women and stuff tapping me. And I was like, this shit is really cool, you know, I gotta learn this. And um, that was the only reason I watched UFC number one because they were down there talking about how, you know, yeah, we're gonna put them on this human cock fight, we're gonna get a kung fu guy and a and a judo guy and a wrestling guy and a boxing guy, and we're gonna put them all on a ring and see who wins, and it's gonna be us. I was like, well, I'm not gonna see that. And so I watched UFC one. And if anybody's watched it, you know what the hell happens, you know, Hoyce Gracie, who's about my size, about six, one or so, about 180 pounds, wipes out everybody, makes it look easy, and walks off without a scratch. And I was like, Yeah, I definitely want to learn this. And so I that's when I got into jujitsu. Um and I trained at the at the Horian Gracie's Academy, and then I found out there was a school um in actually in LA on Pico Boulevard, owned by this other guy named Hickson Gracie. Yeah, and so I went there. Yeah, that other guy. But Hickson was never there because he was in Japan, you know, fighting in pride and stuff. And so his one of his brown belt students at the time um was the instructor there. But I trained there. That was that was cool, and I realized I really loved jujitsu. But then I moved, then I moved to Santa Cruz um and uh and I found Claudio's um and I trained there for about like six weeks, uh no, six, maybe six months on and off, you know. Um, and uh, but then you know, we moved to Corlitos, we had babies, I started a business in Watsonville, and you know, all of a sudden 10 years went by. And uh sometime around you know, early 2005 or six or whatever, I was sitting on the bed with my son, Xander, who was at the time maybe three or four, and I was playing with him, and I realized I was I was showing him like jujitsu moves. I was like, this is a choke, and this is how you do a Kimora, this is a sweep, you know, we're just messing around the bed. And I realized, damn, I'm still thinking about jujitsu. It's been like 10 years, and I realized I think I think about it a lot when I come to think about it. You know, I realized I'm still thinking about it. And I was like, I better get my ass back in there before it's too late. So I marched back into Claudio's like 10 years later. I was like, hey, it's me, I'm back. Um, I'm gonna compete, I'm gonna get my black belt. You know, Caudio kind of looked at me a lot. He's like, oh yeah, okay, yeah, we'll see, we'll see. And I never looked back and I just I just, you know, it consumed me and and I fell in love with it even more. And it it did change my life, you know. Um it got me through some of the one of the worst times of my life. Um back in uh in 2008, uh when the uh financial crisis hit. Yeah, um, I um uh long story short, I had two businesses at the time. I lost both of them, you know, um, and uh that was the same time my wife told me she wanted a divorce. And so all of a sudden I had we had two houses. Um we'd bought the house next door and we were renting out the other one, you know, building our empire, and all of a sudden those are both in foreclosure. My whole life was just getting flushed down the toilet. And then I was like 44 years old, you know, thinking like that I finally am you know making it in life, you know, and I'm watching it all slip away. I'm watching all my life savings just you know go out to pay for groceries and pay the mortgage or whatever. And um, my life was just going down the tubes, and it did go down the tubes. Um, but that year, um uh somebody suggested to me, hey, are you are you gonna fight in the Pan Ams? And I was like, Are you freaking kidding me? I'm no and he's like, I really think you ought to sign up for the Pan Ams, you know, you ought to you ought to go out for it, it'll be good for you. And I was like, I've never even been to the Pan Amps. I mean, I'd been competing and I'd won my you know a couple gold medals at uh at um at White Belt. And uh and I was like, no way, I'm not doing that. And then the next morning I got up and I started training for the Pan Amps and I started working out in the garage, like jumping the rope and just like I maybe I just needed a goal, something I could actually maybe accomplish, you know, even if I didn't win, just to go there. And my goal was to you really basically was to not come home on a stretcher, you know, because I was terrified, terrified. It's the pan abs a huge competition. And long story short, I went there and I I cleaned up. I I won every match. Um, nobody scored a point on me, and I came home with a gold medal from the Pan Abs. To this day, it was like my one of the greatest days of my life and um one of my best accomplishments in jiu-jitsu. Um, and so when I look back on that time in my life, it's like it's all dark and gloom and and destruction and and depression, but um, you know, there's this one shining moment. It's like one of the best moments of my life was jujitsu.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, and and for the audience, uh you know, with jujitsu, there's a lot of layers of a lot of different tournaments. You know, what Chris the Pan Ams are like probably the most important thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, there's the West, there's the world nowadays there's all kinds of jujitsu. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But back then it was just back back then it was a big one. Yeah, and and uh you know, to just decide to go to Pan Ams is is not something, especially during that time that you would just like, I know what I'll do, I'll go to Pan Am's. You know, it it's uh crazy, you know, and and you know it it it it's it's we're trying to kill each other. It's it's it's it's not a little thing. But you know, in middle in middle of you sharing, you know, that that's certainly been the expression that I've had, you know, about jujitsu is like like somehow it's this place that rescues you. You know, that like you can be in your darkest spot, but you're still welcome there. You know, that that whatever it is you're sorting out, you can sort it out on the mat and without taking it out on anybody else. You know, it it's it's such a different experience.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and that was a thing. I mean, you know, at the time, you know, the dojo became like my stress relief, my therapy, you know, my support group, you know, um, it was everything, you know, that kept me going through, you know, it was like it was like the only time in that period in that year or two where you know nothing else existed, you know, because when you're on the mat and training jujitsu and somebody's trying to break your arm, it's like you can't be thinking about anything else, you know. It's like I'm sure you know other sports, you know, like surfing and stuff, you know, you're it's like when you're on that wave, you're not thinking about anything else. And for me, the whole time I'm on the mat in jujitsu, I'm just like I'm just present.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's an hour and a half, it's not 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's an hour and a half of like total presence and joy and laughter and happiness and camaraderie and love, which is so funny to talk about a martial art that way, but that's what it is, you know, it's a community. Um, and uh so yeah, it got me through some really hard times.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, no, uh, and I and I love that you you say that it's love because you know that's certainly what I've been expressing on this microphone, is like, I don't know how to explain it, but it's just mercy and love. Like the the whatever this ragtag group of people here is of cops and criminals and everything, everything in between. Everything in between, all it's it's an expression of love for one another.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, it's such vulnerability, you know. When you put your, you know, your safety in the hands of somebody else like that. I don't know, somehow it's different than than karate. I mean, you know, karate was fun too, and but there's something about submitting somebody, making them say uncle, you know, where you just get to know them on a level, you know, and it it's both ego and humility at the same time at the same time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's it's really that yin-yang experience. Yeah, yeah, it really is. Yeah, you know, it it was it was funny because you when I spoke with Hoffa, you know, about these same same things, he he talked he expressed how much trust is an imperative you know, on that mat. Like like the the mat builds trust in a way nothing else can.

SPEAKER_00:

No. Because you're gonna come that close to breaking my arm, but you're not gonna break it. Yeah, you're gonna almost break it, but you're not, every ting, every single time, over and over again, you know. And that's a certain amount of trust and intimacy that you don't get in other martial arts. And I think also because the way you train jujitsu, you know, you train, you've trained at full power. You know, like in karate, you know, we pulled our punches, you know, we did a lot of point fighting and stuff. We're not gonna punch each other in the face full force all the time. But in jujitsu. You got pads on and stuff, but in jujitsu, you can pretty much go full power without hurting the other person, you know, because you stop right when you're about to hurt them. You know, and so it's like you get to see the best of somebody, you know, you get to, you know, see them put out a hundred percent on you, you know. It's like you're doing you're sharing this moment, like especially when when you compete, you know, you're sharing this intimate moment of going at it with each other, um, but yet not wanting to hurt each other, but trying to kill each other at the same time. Like, where else do you get to do that? You know, and and it creates these bonds that last forever. You know, I see guys I competed with, you know, 10, 15 years ago, and it's like it's like no time went by where it's like we're brothers in arms, you know, from the shared experience we had for six minutes one day back in 2006. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sub tournaments somewhere in the middle of nowhere, it was too hot. We had that moment, and you know, it'll always be there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, it it it it really is such an expression of how life can be. You know, and and uh you know, since since I'm on this this road of of just you know allowing my audience to see the many different kinds of people, you know, the people that you've heard from, again, you know, you're the last three you've heard from are like the this this is in the top shelf world. You know, these are guys who who the world lends is through jujitsu. Uh getting to hear about it this way. We're being a little bit more vocal about it. I've had a couple more practitioners in here where we've talked explicitly about jujitsu. There's certainly been a lot of people who sat on the other end of the microphone, we haven't talked about jujitsu at all. You know, that that you know you wouldn't naturally know who the practitioners are, but the camaraderie is the same. You know, that that that the impact of why most of us show up is it's it's almost continuous. You know, that it's very rare, at least in our club, that you run across somebody who just wants to be mean. Like it just is not part of the lexicon of how we do it. And to experience the love, the way that we get to express it on on ours is really unique. And and uh you know, not on a promotion uh side, but also on an understanding side, because this this is one of the things I did want to bring up, if we were going to talk about jujitsu, is really how things have changed, you know, be because uh you know when I showed up on the mat, it came with a lot of fear. The fear was very simple. All my friends were crippled who had done it, you know, and and the stories from the 90s, early 2000s, when when it when it got the grip on the surf community, got a grip on the other people that I knew in the martial arts community that I used to train with. You know, just you know, the amount of knee injuries, the the the things, uh it was just especially at the time raising kids, I didn't want anything to do with it. You know, I needed to be to work. Um but you know, that that bundle of fear that I think anybody who's never done it walks into is you know, is with this impression. You know, I wonder if if you're willing to share a little bit about how much it's changed, you know, because you you were there, it sounds like on the tail end of let's just say I think the training was much harder.

SPEAKER_00:

Um yeah, at you know, at the Gracie Academy, you know, they would have like miniature tournaments just as part of class. Like, you know, you'd show up to class and they'd be like, okay, we're on a tournament today, you know, you guys get on that side, you guys get on that side, okay, you, you, go. And so it's like, oh my god, you're like, you're you're fighting. And you're going, yeah, you're going hard, you know, and you're trying to win. And and back then I was a terrible white belt, you know, because like to me, every every sparring match like was like a fight to the death. Like it was for me, I was like trying to win every single time, you know, at all costs. I remember I even punched some guy like in the ribs because he had me in a in a guillotine choke and I didn't want to tap, so I started punching him in the ribs. Like it's like, God, I can't believe I did that. But like that was my mindset back then. Um, I'm surprised I didn't get thrown out, but I guess well it I I don't look, I look, I was watching from the outside.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know that that wasn't part of the program back then, you know, just with the way that jujitsu emerged in America. Like it it was a fighting state. We haven't really gotten into the you know, anybody who wants to go watch how it started, it's on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, you you you can go see how it started. It was brutal.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, and and it was very macho. I don't really view it as a macho sport, it's a very elegant.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's not. I mean, especially places like where we train, you know, at Claudios, it's it's a it's a loving family environment. It's there for wellness, you know. And to me, martial arts was always about wellness first. You know, self-defense is just a thing you learn as you go along, but you know, the focus is on well-being. And to be honest, I've never I've never had a serious injury from jujitsu in 20 years. I've had a lot of minor injuries, sprains, aches, you know, rib bruises and stuff, but I've never had, you know, um, like a serious injury. I mean, like I I had a knee surgery recently, but that was just wear and tear. I don't I don't blame jujitsu. It happened at home. You know, it wasn't really maybe jujitsu contributed, but it wasn't like I came home from the dojo with a broken knee or something. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So you know, you know, that shift for you. I I I mean, do you because this ends up being a conversation a little bit? Do you feel like it's getting soft? Because I I I mean I appreciate how soft it is, you know, come coming in at my age.

SPEAKER_00:

With jujitsu? Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously, you know, it's it's turned into much more of a sport now. I mean, that's you know, a lot of the critique is like, you know, the traditional jujitsu is kind of like gone. It's like turned into uh these all these fancy moves, you know, that you would never do in a real fight. I mean, jujitsu started out as like survival. I mean, it I mean, its origins are with the the the warrior class in in in feudal Japan, learning how to fight guys who are wearing armor that you can't punch in the face because they have a face shield and you can't kick them in the chest because they have a chest plate, you know. And so what do you do? Well, you you know, you break things, you know, or you choke them out. And that's kind of where it started, you know, from and and it's so far removed from that now with you know, you know, go-go platas and and and berambolo roll, all these fancy moves, you know, where you're exposing your groin, you know, or your whatever. It's like stuff you wouldn't do in the street. And so, yeah, I mean, in that sense, maybe it's gotten soft. I mean, I still think the skills you develop learning jujitsu, even that sport jujitsu are still, you know, highly applicable and transferable to you know self-defense, but it's it's definitely changed, you know, from what it started out, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and and so I I guess I'll ask this portion of the question this way. You know, in Santa Cruz, as it pertains to surfing, the you know, one of the friction points, you know, because I pulled in enough surfers, is like we don't know how to talk about how it was as though it was a good thing, you know, but that it's changed and gotten way gentler hasn't sorted out yet. You know, that that the friction out in the water, the the the pecking orders, you know, the fights that used to happen, it created a deep measure of safety. You know, like like there there was like people just didn't get injured out in the water, they did someone helped. You know, now it's like because there is no quote unquote physical order, you know, there's no heavies anymore threatening to kick the crap out of you or kicking you out of the water. Now it's kind of a free-for-all. Um you know, in in the context of the of of uh you know that kind of friction that lives in surf culture, jujitsu kind of carries the same thing, you know. You know, the the it's Brazilian origins. Uh, you know, as as I was expressing, Hafa was expressing, you know, that there's a real cultural connection to these two things, you know, that like you mind your P's and Q's. Um do you like it more now? You know, because I I am looking at surfing now and going like I think I like this more. You know, I'm not sure how it's gonna sort out. You know, I don't know what to do with the golf course when there's no tea times. You know, it used to be, you know, there are various layers of how to get your tea time sorted out with a set of rules. But I like the gentility that it's moving into better than before because it feels better just to be out, although it's more chaotic. Uh you know, with things kind of allowing a guy like me, you know, at 48 who was not in a physically adequate spot, nor at an age to face the tenacity that it used to take to actually just get through warmups. Right? You know, the the the softening that it takes to provide, you know, what is now kind of a consumer product, you know, until it becomes a lifestyle choice. You know, i is there any contradicting contradiction in there for you, or do you just feel like it's a really good natural progression?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I mean I like that part of it. I like that it's accessible to more people and to all people, not just to, you know, macho guys who want to learn how to kick ass. You know. Um so I like that part of it. I mean, I don't necessarily I don't really like and I've never been interested in in learning all the crazy moves and you know the modern stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, being on your head and shoulders.

SPEAKER_00:

Being on my head and twisting, you know, all that breakdancing stuff. It's like I was never interested, I don't know a lot of that, you know. So like I, you know, I'm a I'm a black belt, but there's a lot I don't know because I'm just not interested in learning that stuff. I just really was interested in in the basic foundations of it, you know, and the self-defense aspect of it. And yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So okay, one last question.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Um you are someone, at least in my life, that I draw a lot of hope from you. Oh, really? Just it's just by your demeanor. You know, it's not as though um you know I'm listening to your conversations, anything like that. It's you're generally a fairly hopeful person. Uh you know, pretty pragmatic, you know, on outside observation. You know, Chris and I, yeah, we spend an hour and a half once a week together, have for quite some time. You know, we have our little roles together up at your place with another friend and really, really enjoy those moments. But like knowing you, knowing you, I don't know you, but you seem to me to be a hopeful person. And so, you know, from that lens of hope, you know, what is it that drives you? What is it that you look forward to in the future? You know, because I I there's a lot of hopelessness right now. I I I don't think I've experienced a time of more hopelessness culturally. It's a strange paradox to me because I'm more hopeful than I've ever been in my life, and so I feel a little bit like a fish out of water. You know, but at the same time, it's like, hey, there's hope in the world, and and I see it in other people's eyes. You know, it's despite the messaging, it's the safest time to be alive. Oh, you know, like like there's something wrong. We've we've we've adopted this dystopian worldview, and like you're missing something here, actually. It's really safe, it's a really good time. It's not great for everybody, but it's like it's great for everybody. Things are way better than they were even a decade ago, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So so what's the thing that really gets you up in the morning? Is is it something still it still gets me up in the morning? Is it something new? You know, and again, coming from a generally hopeful person, and and I and I do believe about most hopeful people, it's because they've been through very, very hard things. So they know the difference in what they're seeing. Yeah. You know, hearing hearing your story now, not knowing what what I what I know now compared to what I knew an hour ago about you. You know, now I see it more, you know, where it's from. Interesting. You know, what what you know, but what's the thing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I I I think you kind of you kind of hi hinted at it there. You know, I th for me I think it's it's it's gratitude. Having having gone through some some real hard times and many years of of struggle. Even when I wasn't struggling, I still felt like I was struggling.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Because I wasn't where I wanted to be or I thought I should be or and expected to be. You know, um, it's funny because my life is, you know, on the surface, it's it's you could just look at it as a story of just blessings and and fortitude and happiness and joy, and and it is all those things. I've had an amazing, wonderful life. But I could also describe my life to you as just a string of failures and disappointments and missed expectations and and um falling short of of my goals. Um, even the things I'm I I love that I'm successful, you know, I'm almost a third-degree black belt in jiu-jitsu, but uh simultaneously I'm you know, like I know there's tons of guys that could kick my butt, and there's tons of guys who know way more jujitsu than I do. There's I'm like low on the totem pole of black belts in in my mind anyway. And you know, so it just, you know, a lot of disappointment. But having come through, you know, a lot of hard hardship and struggle that I, you know, was a big part of my life, you know, perceived or real, um, you know, I'm finally in a place, you know, where I'm in a really great marriage and I have a really good job, and um, I'm still healthy, you know, I still feel good, I could still train and do do most of the things I want to do. And um, so when I wake up, it's just it's just happiness. I'm just just the gratitude for where I am at now compared to where I was. And so that gives me hope because, you know, I just know the perseverance paid off, you know. So many years uh of just, you know, there was like three years when when my wife Lisa first met me, where um my career was just bouncing, you know, from place to place, like and just lost, you know, just trying to, is this gonna work? Nope, is this gonna work? Where I was working for these startup companies that, you know, I thought I was gonna be rich and then, you know, they went down the tubes, you know, oh, we didn't get the money, you know, whatever. And that just kept happening over and over again in careers that were hard to get off the ground. And uh, but I just never gave up. I was up every morning at 6 a.m. working at the dining room table, sending out resumes, looking at maybe how can I buy a business, you know, can I start a business? Can I find a job? And you know, so and finally got somewhere, you know, a lot of persistence and and some luck finally landed in my lap. And um, and so I think I guess that's what gives me hope is like, you know, you can if you stick with it, you know, eventually you'll maybe get somewhere, somewhere good. And yeah, you're right. There's so much to be um uh, like you said, dystopian so much, you know, when in the news about like, oh my God, the world's going to hell, you know, um, really fast. AI is a huge fear, you know. Um, politics is everybody's scared, you know, they're scared of the other side, um, you know, uh where the direction of things are going and all of that. Um, but at the same time, like you said, yeah, but this is one of the best times. Like, I don't think I'd want to be alive, you know, 100 years ago. Like, what if you need a doctor? What if you need surgery? Like, what if you get cancer? I mean, it's like I, you know, I mean, there's just so much good. And and there's so much, there's so much, there's so many good people. I mean, and even like to take politics for an example, and it's like, you know, you go online and you get in arguments with people about, you know, you know, um, their political views, and it gets nasty and ugly. But but when you really talk to people with those views, like person to person, you know, actually we're not that bad, we're not that different, you know, we have different opinions, but you know, but there's middle ground, you know, and that's what politicians used to say all the time, you know, there's no blue states, there's no red states, it's just these United States, and we have more in common than we don't. And I really do believe that. I really do think, you know, most people, you know, it doesn't matter which side of the political aisle you're on, you know, we all can agree that, you know, we're not happy with the way things are going. Things aren't better now than they were, you know, for you know, for our generation is not gonna, you know, be better than our parents' generation. You know, we're not gonna have as much, it's not gonna be as you know, comfortable a life. And, you know, and there's too much money, you know, pooled up, you know, too much wealth inequality. And the one percent of the one percent. 1% have everything, and you know, um, we can all agree that we want to fix stuff. And um, you don't have to be a hippie to want to have clean water and clean air, you know, and so I just think there's a lot of um more in common with uh us than there are differences. It's just that the differences are being just blown up and accentuated, you know, because um because driving wedges between people is profitable. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's really too bad. Yeah, it is. You know, it it's so I I I you know, I I have to say from my own personal side, you know, this last election cycle, you know, post COVID till now has just been like I don't I never thought I'd see the whole world get depressed. You know, and like and Yeah, loneliness is an epidemic. Like it it it it's really weird to look at myself and everybody. You know, well I struggled with this my whole life and I'm finally out of it and like wow that sucks. Like that's that's a hard spot to be in. Just watch the whole whole whole of of what seems to be around us just kind of stuck in this spot. But but I I wanted to leave on on a very particular note that that I'm I'm super grateful for you. Oh you know, that that uh you know it is no lie, you know, that that I say when when uh you know the the amount of fear that I walked into the gym with was resolved in many ways just by you being you. Wow. So thank you for you just being you. Well, well, it it I I I think these are important things for us to hear from one another, Chris. That that that your impact, whether I got to say it to you or not, this is one of the tricks that I'm pulling on my friends, you know, who who don't know me, know me. Of just be able to say in front of you that I love you. I'm grateful for you that I got to show up in my darkest moment and have a friendly face like yours means the world to me. And though we never may be besties or whatever else, you've had an impact on this other side of the table, and I'm just grateful for it. So thank you. Well, thanks for sitting with me. Thank you. Thanks for doing this thing and and uh being on my strange little journey of talking in front of microphones and letting people listen in.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'm impressed and proud with your journey, and uh it's an honor to do this with you. And um and thank you for sharing that because you know, yeah, you know, there's this part of me that's like, well, you know, I never lived up to my expectations, but um knowing that I've maybe made some positive contribution in my community or to one person's life is, you know, in some ways that's that's all you can ask for.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. Well, anyways, thanks again. So thank you. Well, all of you, love you also. You guys have a good rest of your day.