Episode 72: Braden Coolidge: What If Small Acts Are The Only Things That Can Change Things?

A single dirt road outside Harare changed everything. What began as a UCSC field study became a three-decade commitment to an orphan school in Zimbabwe: ten classrooms raised brick by brick, a lifesaving well drilled through granite at 2 a.m., and a partnership powered by small donations and relentless trust. Alongside that story of patient progress, we open up about Santa Cruz—why we love it, why it hurts, and how traffic, safety, and policy shape whether we actually feel like a community.

We unpack how commerce and social values must work together if we want a vibrant downtown where families feel safe to stroll, eat, and gather. We talk candidly about homelessness and public space without slipping into easy outrage, and we explore the counterintuitive lesson learned in Zimbabwe: let people celebrate their steps forward. Progress isn’t just concrete and windows; it’s dignity, rhythm, music, and a reason to show up tomorrow. We also wade into hard global realities—Venezuela’s political shift, Zimbabwe’s constraints—and the uneasy truth that sometimes good arrives through imperfect means.

Threaded through it all is men’s mental health. Isolation grows when life gets expensive and fragmented; connection grows when we meet up, admit what’s hard, and serve someone else. If there’s a takeaway, it’s this: small, consistent acts outlast big speeches. Build the next block. Drill the next meter. Open the shop. Walk the neighborhood. Celebrate progress. Join us for a grounded, hopeful conversation about making home—here and far away—by doing the work together.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review. Tell us your next small action—we’re listening.

Transcript

Rediscovering Home In Santa Cruz

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Now we're starting now. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

That's right, you found it again.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

First person mean mugging kid to take down.

unknown 0:16

I can't relax.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Braden Coolidge. Happy to be here. Santa Cruz. What's the first thing you think?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

I mean, that's easy. That's home. From day one, born and raised. Not as not as many people in this town can say that as I wish could. Yeah. And sometimes the question isn't uh you know, sometimes the question is what am I still doing here? But Santa Cruz is a special place. Yeah. I know that you'll get into that.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Yeah, well, you know, it it's um you know, you've watched me the last two or three years fall in love with this place again. And uh you know, a lot like marriage. I'm seeing new things, you know, you just gotta wait. You know, you just gotta wait. That conversation shifts and that's what keeps it together. And, you know, clearly with this silly little podcast thing that I'm doing, you know, that's clearly it's it's for myself, right? Just trying to make sense of what what what the world's doing and and where I live in it. And this is where I live, you know, and and so it's it it's uh yeah, it's weird how home it is now.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

It's it's a different, it's a different fight now. You have to accept that it has value. We're all in the same looking for the same meaning, the same purpose, and what you're doing is is offering a conversation to talk about that and find community, and that's brilliant, and I love it.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

So uh you got a street named after your family up there on the mountain. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself. You you know the the the I mean, just so you all know, audience this guy hates talking about himself, but but there's there's a lot to this human and you know the short story, simple. You know, we we went to high school together, that's where we met. Um we became friend friends when I got married. He was at my bachelor party. We've been close, you know, um not necessarily time-wise, but always emotionally fairly, fairly close humans, and and he's a human I greatly admired. He's been in and out of my life in really cool ways. Um but I it these conversations with longtime friends are a little awkward, mostly because there's so much to cover. And and you know, what I told Braden you know before we we we lit up the mics here is that people need to know a little bit about who you are and and who he is is who many of us are, you know, born here, raised here, stayed here for whatever reason, still here, happened to get a house here at the right time. All the things you know, it's like the things that uh could keep you here. Uh he got caught in a good way, but you know, as it is with anybody who's been here, it's a it can be a struggle to stay. But for the audience, you know, them getting to know you, married Graciela Coolidge, go listen to that, she's awesome. Um this is a person who has had to me resonant impact uh as far as building community here in town, though it the his fingerprints are not easily seen. So you know, we got out of high school, you went to college, ended up in South Africa. Go.

Travel That Changed A Life

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Yeah, the uh the crux of that is I'm still here in Santa Cruz, and and you're right, there are several reasons that anchored me here, and for better or worse, of course, most of it is is phenomenal. The other part of that is I did have something in my life that allowed me to travel the world pretty regularly. And so the chance to leave Santa Cruz often and come back and have that feeling, and to leave it again and come back. And so it's not like for the last 55 years I've spent every the majority of my time here. I have been based here, but those travels have been crucial. Crucial to me understanding what's beautiful about Santa Cruz and also crucial in understanding what's not. And when you're younger, you're just in that typical pattern that we're all in trying to define ourselves and find our path and find them the way forward. And I was just lucky from a young age that travel to places as far away as South Africa and Zimbabwe and other parts of the world impacted in me in a way that helped shape who I am from a very young age. And we're talking um 22 when I first went to Africa. And I've gone now. I hate these numbers because then they add up, they really add up in ways that you don't want to add up, but for 32 years, this will be my 33rd year traveling to Africa.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

So tell us about that first trip.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

First trip was a UCSC field study attachment. So it was a requirement of my major. I don't even know if the major exists at the time. It's very Santa Cruz. It's called community studies. Uh-huh. People, you know, still still, like you just did, chuckle at it. Back when it was a more liberal arts college. Yeah, I don't even know what it is now, but probably not that far off. But the the requirement of the major I was in required that you do a six-month field study somewhere in the world, and uh, you know, different from your home area. And you could be anything. You could be studying law, you could be studying medicine. So it was it wasn't like it it wasn't a legitimate career choice or a diploma. It was that you had to apply social change to whatever that focus of study was. And so the social change element that they pushed was you needed to recognize other parts of the world and what impacted those communities and see it through different eyes, then rather than just, you know, go to law school, study California law, uh, you know, work off California law. You needed to go and experience whatever your focus was. And at the time, I was pursuing what I thought would be a career in youth counseling. And I went to go work at a school over there. And I lived there in 1993. And that was, it was a very what I would call eye-opening experience. I came wide-eyed and ambitious, and I could change the world. And it chewed me up and spit me out and sent me home with some new realities digested. But it was incredible. And looking back, that hardship and that those challenges and that diversity painted a world picture that is far more relevant. And it's a world picture that I wouldn't have experienced had I never left Santa Cruz.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

There's a pivotal moment. Was it that first trip or the second trip? In terms of Well, what you ended up doing that has found you in Africa at least once a year.

Field Study To Lifelong Mission

SPEAKER_01 8:31

So the career path pivoted pretty quickly. And what I discovered when I was over there was a group of artists that were producing some of the finest stone sculpture in the world. And to this day, it's still a phenomenon unique to Zimbabwe in Southern Africa. And I felt not only compelled by the art, but I developed a group of friends that lived there when I was living there that were almost all artists. And so that was my peer group, and that was my exposure, and that was my experience outside of my own field study when I lived there. And I took home some pieces that year and did a little, I came back and I was a bartender at the Seascape Resort. And I rented out the room, one of the conference rooms, and I put, you know, six or seven small sculptures up on little pedestals that I made in my backyard, and I hosted a little event. And and that was essentially the launch of my business representing the artist that lived in Zimbabwe. And that started the business that I still have 30, 32 years later. And then there was a little car ride. Then the, let's see, that would have been 2006. So, you know, quite a number of years later, although still 20 years ago, the what I what I would do each year is I would pack a bag of clothes into a huge O'Neill surf bag. It was as big as you could get. Uh stuffed it full of clothes that I would save throughout the year, get from friends and things like that. And and and uniquely it would weigh just about 50 pounds every single time, which was the maximum you could take as luggage without paying fees. And so every year I would bring the bag with me, and I would go and I would find a place to donate it. And the one year in particular, I would usually go down and and donate it somewhere downtown and give it to some people on the street or or or um obviously there was a lot of street kids at the time. In that year, it was such a mob of street kids in the areas near the town that I didn't feel comfortable stopping to pull out this bag and start handing out clothes because it would, I would have been bum rushed. And I could have just dropped it and run, but I didn't want that. I thought, oh, let me drive out to some remote area and find a little town and just give this to someone in the community outside of the city. And so I just drove. And while I was driving, I found a dirt road that I turned off onto, figuring that it would lead to some rural area that was quiet and you know, obviously a more poor region of the greater um Harari area. And there was an old man walking down the road with a cane, just slowly walking down this dirt road. And when I tell you about this road, there's no buildings on either side. There's nothing but dirt and trees for as far as you can see. But I figured there's a road it's got to go to somewhere. And because of the road being so long, I pulled up next to this guy and and figured, you know, you must have a long ways to go. Can I give you a ride? Can I give you a lift to where you're going? He looked at me and he said, Well, where are you going? I said, Well, I I I I don't know, but I'll take you where you're going. And he was just puzzled and he kept looking at me like, But where are you going? I said, I finally I just said, Look, I'm going where you're going. So, you know, would you like a ride? And he's like, Sure. I love one. It was just weird. You know, you know, I'm I'm I'm the young white guy in a in a in a country that you know you'd go days or or weeks without seeing other white people. And and it was just odd for me to be where I was asking someone if I could give them a ride. Yeah, subverted things a bit. Anyways, he directed me to a place where I pulled over off the dirt road, went in a little bit, and then he said, This is it. You can let me out here. And I said, Wow, okay, where are you going? He goes, Oh, well, I have a church gathering out in those rocks over there, and it was just a forest of stones, big boulders, and he was going out there to meet with some other people to pray. And just as I back up and I'm leaving, a gentleman in an old tattered suit and a hat ran up, waving his arms with this gigantic grin, and he said, I'm Mr. Maulana, and this is my school. And I thought, Oh, he must need a ride into town because we're way out there now and he's all dressed up. He's got to go somewhere. But he piqued my interest. He said, This is my school, and he pointed out over all this land that had some big boulders and some dirt and a couple trees, but there was nothing, absolutely nothing. And I said, Oh, will you show me your school? And this was a Sunday, so there was no one there. And he walked me around this beautiful property and he showed me where grade one would gather and what grade three would gather, and the performing arts center was just this, you know, uh raked area of dirt that had elevated above another area where they would have all the seating and watch performances, dancing and drumming. And anyways, long story short, I told him, I go, Well, listen, I'm here in Zimbabwe, I'm working with some artists who are passionate and living their dream and and they're finding success, promoting their work in America, like their success stories. They're they're from Zimbabwe, their their culture is here, their jobs are here, but their work is traveling the world. Can I bring them to speak to your kids and to share their story as a as a form of inspiration? And he's they said, Oh, absolutely. Come on Tuesday at 11. Okay. Tuesday at 11, we showed up and there was almost a thousand kids and it blew our minds. And and when I say this is an informal school, so it's an orphan school. It's not an orphanage, they don't have buildings, there's no one for anyone to sleep. There was a couple small uh thatched hut buildings where the founders lived, but we were on the outskirts of a township with a million people, and this was a growth point outside of the capital city where they would house workers that were intended to come in and work in the city back in colonial era. We're on the outside of that outskirt in in nothingness. And this was a time when the HIV epidemic was was peaking and a lot of people were dying. And so there was there was this epidemic of orphans, and so almost a thousand of them. They had 1600 at the time, but a thousand almost a thousand showed up that day because they would do, you know, not everyone showed up every day. Yeah, but it's still a lot of kids. Yeah. And my mind was blown. When I say informal, I'm talking about these kids sat on dirt, their teacher used chalk on the face of a granite boulder to write things out. And they taught them, they were all volunteers. They taught them shona, which is their native language, they taught them English, they taught taught them math, and they taught them significantly, you know, looking back, they taught them traditional culture, dancing, and music. And and to this day, that's a it's very rare for the schools to teach that, and we still do.

The Dirt Road And The Orphan School

SPEAKER_00 16:16

So again, it's like pulling teeth from this guy just a little bit. You set yourself to something though when you saw that. And and uh, you know, I made reference to this, you know, lightly in the podcast that that I really do believe in people doing small things for other people. Your small thing has turned into something. And I I like to kind of stay in this this seam a little bit because you know it speaks to uh the way things work. You know, like like you know, there's a scripture that says don't despise small beginnings. You know, that small beginning was you seeing a thousand orphans, you know, and wondering what can I do. And then you set yourself about to do it. And you did something. You don't really like to talk about it because it's just why why wouldn't you do this? You know, like this, like duh, you know, here I am, this you know, very wealthy American in their eyes. Because you brought something to them and you know, it wasn't just hope. It was it was physical. And and uh you know, the sitting on the outside, you know, doing what I was doing with ministry at the time, but the you know, there there's there's stuff we can do, and you chose to do a thing, and you've now dedicated thirty years to this thing, but it was one brick at a time. And and so yes, there was uh school outside, you know, uh where kids you know had their their uh studies demonstrated to them on rocks and now after thirty years they get to sit inside of buildings and there's wells. Is there electricity yet?

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Not yet. We're gonna do solar in the next couple of years. There's so many kids that we're just still building the school.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Yeah. And and again, it's not like this false sense of modesty that that Braden has. It's just more just he's living in in a common reality with other people doing the things he can do, which is you never raised a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

No.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Like it it came in increments, you know. It's taken so long. Oh, like twenty dollars, fifty dollars, but you dedicated yourself to building what is one of now one of the best schools there. Period.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

You know, it's it's true what you said. It's how can you look at it any other way? I stumbled across it and left thinking I have to do something here. And I thought I would just write some emails and reach out to some people, raise some money, send them, send it back to them, and and then that would be it. Like, okay, I did my part. And it slowly became something that I could never give up now. Like, if you asked me if you're gonna strip yourself down to focusing on just one thing, what would it be? I mean, this is retirement for me, is just focusing on this this project. It's that big. Of course, I'm not retired. And so the reason it has worked all these years is because I made it fit into the rest of my life. Like, okay, so after that, I saw the response, I saw the need. I started a nonprofit charity organization, which I still have to this day. And that through that organization, we've been raising money and awareness and slowly, literally brick by brick, as you say. Yeah. Have been building, we're now up to 10 classrooms. Um we drilled water this last year after their well collapsed. And that was just it's an absolute fiasco. I could tell you stories about being up at 2 a.m. because of the time change and and having my my contact on the ground relaying information about okay, we're at 30 meters, still no water, okay, 40 meters, and every meter is is is money. Yeah. Right. And finally at 2 a.m. I told my my friend Moses, who was there overseeing the project, go, Moses, you don't let them leave. Because we had failed before, and then the rig leaves, and it's hard to get everything there. But they're drilling. And I said, okay, well, at two in the morning, Moses, I trust you. If they don't find it here, move to another spot and drill again. I'll find the money, but don't leave because now we have water problems, disease problems. And it's magnified by not a little community of 30, 40 people, but you have six, seven hundred people. And the reason we have less now is because the government we're we're registered with the government and you can only have as many people as they allow per classroom. So the reason we keep building is because there's still demand. And so when we get we're at 10 and we're only allowed 50 kids per classroom. Right. So we do we do 60. So, anyways, they they found water. They were they went to 45 meters drilling through granite. We know the water's there. We found it before, and we just were unlucky. And Moses said, I'm gonna go two more meters and then I'm gonna quit. One meter more, we're down to 46 meters. They get a gusher and all this water pours out. And and it's hard to describe to people here in California, especially in Santa Cruz, as small as it is, that euphoria that is 600 people celebrating water gushing out of the ground like you've just struck oil. And now we've got five 5,000 liter tanks and a piping system and a solar pump that fills them up, and they're they have clean, and this is the most beautiful, clean, fresh water that you can imagine, even for here. Yeah, yeah. So how do you walk away from that?

Brick By Brick: Building With Integrity

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah, yeah. And and well, I I think the thing is that we do. You know, because it seems so overwhelming. Yeah, it's just the nature of being human, is that the you know, and especially I think in this media centric culture that we're now in, it's just overwhelming. Even small things that we can solve and we pass by them because it just seems like too much. Because it is all a little bit too much. You know, but is that in our head? It is. You know, that that that's that's the re the the common reality I think that we have to face as humans is that just just you see something you can do, stop turning away. You know, just do it. And uh you know, as someone who used to do a lot of those things and does very little of those things now, you know, like read it's part of my process right now, is repositioning into doing, not thinking, you know, like like, oh, there's stuff I can do. And you know, and again, as silly as I think it is to sit here and talk in front of microphones as though this is something right, you know, like like my my the the part of the ego work that I'm doing right now is like this is ridiculous. Like I I have what am I doing? This is so dumb. You know, like like who doesn't have a podcast right now? But you know, I had to face the the ego side of it of like, well, actually I kind of need this right now because I just like talking to people and sharing our story. But this thing is emerging out of this, and we'll get to that later, you know, about what emerges when you decide to do something and stay consistent. And again, I want to create a little bit more of a landscape of who we're talking about. Who's Moses? Moses is one of the most important artists that you have. You know, it's not like it's not like Moses works at this orphanage and he's got nothing else going on. I mean, Moses is one of the most important global global uh uh sculptors in the world, and Moses is out there getting his hands dirty, you know, like because it's important to him, and those hands are important. You know, it's like he's risking his career for children. You know, it it's not a small thing, but it it's this consciousness, and and I and I don't mean that in this kind of new agey no, it's just like deciding you're seeing what you're seeing and you could do something about it. Like it's important.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

And well, I think it is. It's also important to recognize that you know, the element of that that gets in your way usually is you tell yourself that you you couldn't possibly make a difference. And you couldn't possibly find the time. And so you steer yourself away from what could be one of the most beautiful things that you discover and get involved with in your life, yeah, because life gets in the way. Now, Moses is just an absolute angel to me. He's he's as close to me as anyone in my family, he's truly a brother to me. And we've worked together in a business capacity. I've promoted his work here. He comes over every year. Yeah, the only year over the last 15, 16, 17 years was this year because of the the current political situation. The the embassy in Zimbabwe decided to shut down all visa applications. And so he wasn't able to leave the country. But Moses comes over and we tour to different galleries to promote his work and other artists that I represent, and he's become much more than just a business associated. He's a brother in every sense of the word. And so he became, and he I should say that he is through his own traditional culture and through his own heart, loves being involved in the orphan school project. It gives him such joy to be able, and it's not easy work, and it's not always you find water. There's a lot of times where it's like, wow, this is tough, and how do we continue? And these people are really struggling, and that's the crux of it. And working with Moses, so we we do all things together. We've traveled together, vacationed together, his wife, my wife, different parts of the world. He's been to my anniversary celebration in Florence, Italy. I mean, he's as much a part of my family as anybody. And he just is on the ground over there. So anything that needs to happen, he takes care of it. He takes care of it.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Yeah. You know, there's a way that you think, and I I want to be sure to capture this before, you know, we we traverse into other topics. Um the first building uh you had a foreman and there was a situation, you know, with the bricks. And uh there's a way that you think that I think is is critical to to our conversations. Whether it's just this one and any further one you're you're sitting across from me with, that I think is an imperative that we need to learn to understand. But you had a situation arise with one of your buildings where again this this tiny amount of money I know where you're gone you know, in essence was stolen from the guy in charge. And the reason why I want Braden to talk about this is because I I want people to know this is I'm not the only one that thinks this way. That there are a lot of people that recognize or there are situations that we find ourselves in because we're trying to do good things and something bad happens and we're so quick to just stop right there. Oh, that guy's bad, boom, off you go. And that doesn't have to be the end of the story.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

But why don't you why don't you tell us about that particular situation so that my audience can get a real idea of how you think so up to this point, 20 years later, whenever we need to pay someone for building or material materials, we always get the materials first. And we always finish the labor first because it's just too easy to lose money. And so in 20 years, we've never lost a dollar, and that's remarkable as a charity operating on the other side of the world. In this one instance, we did temporarily lose it. And the the story you're referring to is we decided to advance the money to our builder just to save time. And Moses was leaving on a trip or something, and we're like, well, it's just paying. We've been working together years or a year or so, and we trust him. And that money vanished. And we're talking it was 500 bucks.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

And I think 100 of it we did get, and 400 of it, he it just vanished. And he says, I'm so sorry, I I had to use that money. I'm so sorry. And of course, we had the initial reaction of, well, this is this is over, we're gonna have to find someone else. And we decided, well, let's, Moses, ask, ask him what happened. This is a really great dude. Like, what, why would you jeopardize this? These are orphans. Your child goes here. Like, it's now more than just an orphan school. Like local community members send people. And what we found out is that his dad had died and he needed the money to buy a casket and have a memorial service. And that was the only money he had, and he had to act quickly. And he says, I will, I will work this off. And if you'll work with me because I have no money and I still need to live, can we deduct$100 off of every bill until this is paid off? And we went, absolutely. And he's still our builder today. His kids go there. Um, funny enough, he was born on the same day, on the same year as me.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Yeah. And and the reason I think that story is important is the presumption, you know, that we walk into situations with of what we wouldn't do. You know, because you know, I I I think when you've had the privilege of living a good life and being able to obey all the rules, it it it it's it's a veil that gets pulled over our eyes about what really happens to people.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Absolutely. You know, it and the the the denominators are important, you know, even though that sounds like a little amount of money. You know, to get bricks in Zimbabwe is not easy. When you get bricks in Zimbabwe, you sit two guys with ARs or AKs on top of them. Like bricks are a thing. In Zimbabwe, you know, it it's you know, it's very hard to translate the situation where we're from, because we can leave our surfboards out on the front yard and not get stolen in some neighborhoods. You know, like we we don't not in my neighborhood. Well, yeah, not in your neighborhood. Poor guy live in one of the wealthiest areas and can't leave a bike for two seconds. But you know, it it's uh uh you know, when when we when we don't really understand the true circumstances of uh where things are at, the stories sound different. And and and there's there's yeah, it it's not as clean as we want it to be, you know, life.

Celebration, Dignity, And Progress

SPEAKER_01 32:50

And how indicative is that of the political and societal position we find ourselves in now, that that line being drawn, and you you think differently, then you're out. And and I think it's important, and and you belittle this as some ego-driven podcast side gig, but I would implore you to recognize that your involvement and your investment in this, it's helping me. And I think it's helping your listeners. And when I check in and I listen to the content that you're getting through the interviews that you're having with other people in this town who I don't know and have never met, most of them, some I do. It it makes me feel like I'm part of a community. And that to me is what I really miss about Santa Cruz. I don't feel that way anymore. And there's you you could unpack as much of that as you're interested in. We'll get to that, you know, because but you're right. You know, give dig a little deeper and find out what's what's behind the surface. And and we were our we had a gut reaction. Oh, it's over. We need to find a new builder. And then we pulled back and said, well, let's just let's just find out. Yeah. And then we felt, of course, like obviously, if you had asked us, we would have fronted it. And you know, he's on the verge of tears and he felt terrible, but it's his dad. Yeah, this guy's father just passed him. Yeah. Anyways, happy story, and uh and still to this day, not one dollar has been misappropriated.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Yeah. And and again, in the landscape of how America works, what we hear, the stories, the things like that. Like you're hearing two things, you know, belief in people, but there are also organizations that actually dollar for dollar go right to the ground. You know, like it gets you know, the money's shows up where it's supposed to.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

You know, the vast majority of of nonprofits, public nonprofits, you'll find that very few, 20% goes to the causes. It's usually 80 to 90 percent goes to administration.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Administration, yeah. Yeah. And you know, I'm hoping to pull my cousin in, you know, at some point to talk about this a little bit more, you know, about how important these imperatives are, you know, for people who start nonprofits, because to administrate them is a very expensive endeavor in this country, and that's part of the problem, you know. Um yeah, you know, without without going on too many political tirades here.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

But let me just let me just point out you referenced my name and and you reference me being wealthy in their eyes, and certainly we're yeah, we're the one two percenters of the world when you think about like what luxuries and privileges and where we live and what we have access to. It's ridiculous, right? It's really ridiculous. But that that doesn't represent my story. Yeah, like I didn't know my grandfather. He he died before I was born. And and I only learned stories later, but that's who that school, that's who the the the main street up to UCSE is named after my grandfather, simply because he was a politician that invited the university, consider Santa Cruz as their next location. His name is also on the bridge going over the harbor that they're now blowing up in a three-year project to rebuild a bridge. Yes. But um much of that story doesn't translate to uh a family of wealth. In fact, I never knew much about my grandparents because I didn't know any of them. And my dad's dad died when he was young and had a his father had a stepmother that burned the will and took everything and left my dad with nothing. I didn't even know my grandfather lived, you know, like a hundred, two hundred feet away from where I live now at some point until I ordered a stove and the guy recognized my name and asked me if I knew about the Coolidge estate. I was just like, What? No, I don't. Tell me more. Yeah. But when I went over to Zimbabwe, I didn't have the means to do what I'm doing now. I didn't, I wasn't, I didn't have that. I just it's all been inviting others to come in, learn the story, and and assist. And you're right, it's$20,$50,$100 at a time. And we do little project, we get they'll dig the trenches and then we'll raise more money, and they'll do the foundation, and we'll raise more money, and we'll go up to window level, they call it. And then they'll go to gable and then they'll do roof, and then we just did uh circle back this last month to do refurbishments. We put up new um blackboards using uh a better concrete this time that wouldn't erode. We we're we're put in new windows and things like that. It's little by little by little.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Yeah, and and um I I there are a few of you young people listening to this. Operations of scale. You know, everything is so big and dramatic now. You know, we we've lost the simple imperatives that are available to all of us. And I've always played small ball, right? My churches were small, you know, i i it I I never had an immense amount of resource to work with, but the impact of the resource is what's important. Absolutely, you know, and I cannot express enough to you listeners what something so simple can do. You know, for for years I was in the pipeline of county social workers and there was always a woman or two, you know, that passed through in Christmas that that didn't get the resource that they need after they had uh escaped, you know, from from a traumatic experience, whether it was with the spouse that was abusing them or whatever the situation was. And those county people knew they could come to me because I would ask my clients for money. And the simple task of ten dollars, five dollars, twenty dollars in the impact of a Christmas, you know, that they would have not had, and their child getting presents and then them getting a present too, and dinner, and yes, here's another two, three hundred bucks worth of cash to get you through this month, to get you through this moment of hell, you know, that something as simple as you know, not receiving tips you know, for Christmas when everybody's feeling generous can do so much for a human being. And and you know, I I got Two letters. Well, I got letters from everybody, but but I got two letters specifically of women that were going to take their lives. Because they were just out of hope. And then somehow in some sort of magic, you know, and and and the generosity actually is so simple. And that that that was always what I found beautiful and disgusting at the same time. You know, that like it was so simple. All I did was do hair. That's what I do every day. All I did is decide for this two weeks I'm not taking my tips. Those go there. You know, just adding to the generosity, the moment, the momentum of that moment. Could I afford it? No, didn't care. You know, because it was feeding me. You know, that like these simple things, you know, you wouldn't know. You know, these buildings go up. What what are the increments? Like 10,000, 20,000 bucks at a time.

Santa Cruz Then And Now

SPEAKER_01 40:55

No, the increments are two, three thousand dollars at a time. Well, I know I know, but but it takes about it takes about thirty-five to forty-five thousand per school block, and each block has two classrooms.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Yeah, and but but it's incremental. You know, like like like like the hope gets slowly built.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

You know, and I celebrate every stage.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Yeah, you know, just just the you know, it it's a method I actually do in my shop because I because I saw how it is. Like people want to be energized by new things, and so I never like finish my shop every year. You know, I start, I start around Christmas and take till March so that people see the hope build. You know, it it's it's part of a method, whether it's for me or whatever, but just that excitement of oh, there's something new coming, you know, does something to energize the situation and energize that hope. And and it's so important. It's crucial. You know, that like you don't want to fix everything at once. It's there's there's so much you're not experiencing by just having things get fixed.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

I'll tell you a story which ties back into the orphan school. Each year I would go and I would visit the school and we would make plans. We'd meet with the builder and the administration and just talk about what the most crucial needs are, and I'd get to see the progress and take the photos to share with the donors. But every year they would shut down the school, they would amass an assembly, they would get speakers and dignitaries from the community and the government and the school, and they would put on like a two, three, four-hour celebration. Very formal, and that part drove me nuts because it's an ex-British colony. But it it was so hard for me to accept that. Like I rejected it. I tried to tell them don't do this, don't don't close down the school, don't take all this time off. Like it's this is a long process. And I'm I appreciate your appreciation, but I just want to keep like moving forward. And it was such a it was probably privileged guilt rearing its head. And and finally Graciela sat me down, my wife, and she said, Look, you need to let these people celebrate. And I'm talking singing, dancing, drumming, poetry, uh different readings of things they wrote and different dignitaries coming up and talking about the community and the progress. And it's hours, Michael. Hours, and you're just paraded around. And yeah, and she put it well. She goes, You need to let these people celebrate. You're only there once a year and look at them, they're absolutely loving it. And that's I realized, okay, I was I needed to get out of the way. I needed to stop thinking about my ego and my guilt and whatever affiliation I had to that resistance and to say, look, this is part of their hope. Yeah, this is what gives them joy. And so I to this day now I absolutely love it. Yeah, I'll take six hours. I'll take it, I'll sleep there if I have to. Whatever it takes, let's celebrate.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Yeah, that's so good. You know, and again, yeah, you know, as a pastor, that you know, I always hated when people call me pastor. You shouldn't call me pastor unless I'm actually doing it. You know, that that that that that title is always uh, oh, you know, are you sure? Yeah, because I don't yeah. But that built-in uh you know, when you're driven towards really s resolving people's, you know, true needs to be celebrated, you know, it it it it it can be very off-putting in a strange way, but but th those are really good words, you know, to really learning to sit with that and and and enjoy their joy, not see their problems. You know, because that's I I I don't know what it is about us, but that's what we see is the problem, not the joy in the middle of the moment. Let's uh switch gears a little bit here. Um you know, we we've been texting back and forth. You know, I interviewed you a couple years ago when I was when I was uh kind of ham-handing this the this thing. Uh when you were still angry. I was still pretty angry. Deep deep in my my thing. Um let's talk about Santa Cruz. You know, we're both locals. There's some churn going on, certainly on on my end. Uh, you know, Jay Brown, I'm calling you out. We'll see you soon. Uh but it's a good churn. And and this is this has been a shift in my reality of of uh you know letting go to the local thing. You know, just just like stop it. You know, what whatever that thing was in Santa Cruz, it's over. Done. You guys have heard ad nauseum about about my situations as it pertains to this that have got me to the spot to really celebrate what is going to become of Santa Cruz. Why don't you uh share a little bit, you know, about your past here? You know, you opened a gallery back in the day, downtown was still pretty decimated post-earthquake, on the rebuild phase, a lot of hope in Santa Cruz, buildings were finally starting to go up, downtown was getting revitalized. Uh, you were trying to do things. It was the first time I saw outside of church someone trying to build community and to no end.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

You know, it's like I think it was just a natural progression for me. Obviously, I had this vision of supporting these artists in Zimbabwe, and so the next logical step would be well, where do you represent them? So I found a way to open a gallery on on pennies in a in a location that I wouldn't call uh attractive for a gallery, but it was what I could afford. And so I, you know, and I was out there, we were cutting holes in walls and and putting taking weeds out and making a little sculpture garden and painting walls and building pedestals, and you know, it was on Highway 9 over by Costco.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

It was really homeless shelter.

Commerce, Community, And Downtown Strain

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Yeah, it's ground zero. Back then it wasn't like that as much, but it wasn't so different as was before the tannery and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I tried to make a go of it and had was working with local artists on the walls, paintings and and and uh multimedia, and then having pedestals with sculptures from the artists in Zimbabwe. And that lasted about two years before I realized that I could just barely pay the bills and and and buy food, that Santa Cruz just wasn't going to be the place as much as I had hoped it could. And so, you know, the next logical step for me was well, where do people go to buy art? And that was Carmel. And that was daunting until an angel friend of mine came in through the door, and he was older and very successful and had a big gallery in in Carmel and and uh just sat down with me one day out of the blue, didn't know him, just walked through the door and it's like, well, what uh what are your dreams for this business? Like, what do you see yourself doing? And I I already had the plan laid out. Well, I'm gonna try and save some money, I'm gonna move to Carmel with my business and try and really make a go of it. And he goes, Well, do you need help? And I'm like, Well, I mean, what what can you do? And he goes, Well, how much do you need? I said, Oh, well, you know, it's I need I'm gonna need probably a couple months of rent. So I'm looking at like$5,000. I'm gonna need to move the stuff, maybe like six or seven just to get me, like open the door. And he goes, How about 20? And I I just remembered this story this morning when I was thinking about coming over here, and I thought, you know, I was thinking about crucial people in your life, crucial friends, come at the right time. You have no idea where they came from. This guy pulled out his checkbook, wrote me a check for$20,000, and said, We can trade for artwork over the coming years because I love what you're doing and I want to support you. Let me know how I can help in Carmel. And that's how I moved to Carmel. Yeah. And I paid him back in spades. You know, over the years he he collected pieces and I paid off the balance of it. And and uh yeah, I don't know if that answers your question about creating community in Sankers.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Well, uh you know, it it's like um, you know, with with with what Jay's doing right now, you know, for those of you who want to follow Jay's uh mind frame is is his F-R-A-I-M-E, uh is his hashtag, you know, for for um for Instagram. But you know, he's he's a man who who moved to Santa Cruz fairly recently, has recognized, you know, right away the the immediate friction that this town is in the middle of. And you know, it it it we've been in this protracted conversation, he and I. Um it's a long conversation, certainly with Santa Cruz Vives magazine. I know what Brian's trying to do with the magazine. He's very focused on nonprofits and really elevating the status of these really good people that are around here. You know, he's got to operate through commerce to do those things. And this delicate balance, you know, of social values and commerce has always been the problem here. There's always been good people here wanting to do good things, but odd enough, Santa Cruz has always kind of been in the way. You know, for those of us in our friendship group, we watched you go through what you went through, you know, just trying to collect people, you know, downtown to do these things. It chewed you up, it spit you out. You know, it it's never been easy here, but there's this moment happening right now, and it seems like there's a common consciousness for the people that actually reside here, not just the people buying houses here, but the people who who have to live through here that something needs to change, you know, for Santa Cruz to be become fully more of what it's meant to be, which is really this hyper diverse community, uh, in that people come with all different ways of thinking here. And you know, that's complicated because we, you know, we assign ourselves to political sides and and all this stuff, thinking that the other is is so oh so different, but really there's a common thread, anybody who calls this place home, and that's you are you are from Santa Cruz. Like this, so that makes you just unique in the way you think, because not only do you not agree with this person, but that's your neighbor and you actually like them. You know, it it's it's a pretty weird town that way that that we know amongst our friendship group the political spectrum's you know as as vast as it can be, but we all love each other and we all just want to do good shit. You know, it's not not like yeah, it it it the the the the mask that people wear is easily torn down in this town once you spend a little bit of time with the people in this town. And but the masks are big though, you know, there's a lot of big personalities here. Everything feels small but big. You know, it it's it's just weird that way. And I and I can't tell which is what, you know, the like is it is it just the personalities or is the thing big that they're wearing? Like, I I I don't know, you know, but Santa Cruz has this unique character to it and that it attracts these kinds of people. And you know, you're someone who grew up here with big ideas, you know, they they they haven't all come to scale the way you had hoped, but you've managed to really eke out a life here. And again, you know, Braden's story is not unique, unfortunately. There's there's a lot of people, quote unquote, from money here, but that kind of money, no. You know, it's it's yeah, I I got a good little push kind of maybe. But man, if my legs didn't weren't moving as fast as they were, that momentum was very little. You know, whether it was economic or or whatever else, that like this is not a wealthy community, is the best way to put it. It looks really wealthy. There are very wealthy people who have moved here as of late, but wealthy? No, no, it's not. It's a fairly uh hand to hand to hand-to-mouth community.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

It's wealthy by comparison to most of the world, but not by comparison to most of California. And you go right over the hill to Los Gatos or down to Carmel, like I've been talking about, then you we're a far cry from that. Yeah. Santa Cruz is really good at extracting your wealth before you can get wealthy.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Buy a house. Yeah. Now the house owns you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

No, I think I don't know this Jay character, and and I certainly would love to hear what the perspective of someone coming from the outside into Santa Cruz is at this moment. I've certainly struggled with Santa Cruz over the last, you know, five decades and had great, great things about it that I love and things about it that that I don't, and to this day, and you and I have talked about this a lot. In fact, you've helped me get through sort of my own negativity for Santa Cruz just by talking about it and and and your podcasts and listening to what other people are going through. But the big takeaway for me is usually if you're if you're in a cycle of confirmation bias and and you come with this feeling that this is the way things are and that's your narrative, well, that's always going to be the way you see it. And if you if you want to love a place, look, look at it for what it is, see what it is that you can love about it, and enjoy those elements about it. And if there are toxic areas that you don't, you don't have to like close the door and look away and not talk about them like I'm imagining this J guy is. It should be talked about. If there's a way to do it better, think about think about one of the topics you've touched on a lot. This is a surf culture community. Like I grew up, you helped me realize why I got out of surfing. Like I knew it. I I loved, I grew up surfing. I was, you know, in the waves a lot until I realized this is an angry, violent place. Like people are not okay. I don't love this environment. I might love surfing, but uh it it was always sort of edgy. Yeah. And I think it still is, and now it's edgy with a lot of people in the water. Yeah. I moved on. Yeah. Just like I moved my gallery to somewhere where I could thrive. I moved from surfing to volleyball, beach volleyball. And that was like a defining chapter in my my growing up here. But again, I found something beautiful. And believe me, we can talk about the things that I don't think work. We could talk about how the traffic in this town has created a fractured community and why you and I hardly ever see each other. Yeah. Especially now that you've m moved even further away. But Southsider. It's it's changed the dynamic of living here.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Yeah, I I'm then and I want to actually even address that. Like I had no idea. You know, I you know, I lived on the west side, lived South County before, all that kind of thing. And like this thing that I'm sorting through right now is like where I moved to is so peaceful. And I had no idea how not peaceful by comparison, you know, where I was. And I I live in I lived in Capitolin my whole life. It is one of the talk about an enclave. Yeah, like it's one of the most peaceful spots in Santa Cruz proper. That being said, the the level of dread that I have when I drop down off of Freedom Boulevard, you know, like like just sorting through that emotion of like, wow, people are so angry. And I I don't blame them. You know, it's like like the traffic just getting into town now is you know, half hour. You know, that stupid rail to trail you know thing was built, it'd take me 20 minutes on my bike. You know, like the absurdity and lack of logic of what's actually happening is like it just you know, critics criticize, you know, the the liberal reality of Santa Cruz, even though I am uh like about as liberal as you get as far as my politics go. Like like the lack of common sense is is it is profound and it's impactful to the people that live here just driving in the morning. You know, it like the thing is real, and I have no idea why it's as bad as it is now, because people are not driving over the hill the way they used to. Like what the actual fuck is happening with the traffic? Because yeah, beginning two o'clock, if you decide to leave Mission Street and go to 41st Avenue, a whopping three miles away, put on your seatbelt, it's gonna be 30, 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Yeah, you can't do that. And what is that?

SPEAKER_00 59:39

You just don't.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

You don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

We don't.

Safety, Empathy, And Public Space

SPEAKER_01 59:42

And that's you talk about what it what this town used to be because we grew up here. You could go anywhere. You didn't think about it that way. It I I've lived in every corner of this county from west side Santa Cruz to the hills of Corlitas, and and almost every As we call them, enclave in between. Yeah. We were so free. Where was the surf best today? You go there. You just went. Yeah. Nowadays, to leave my house, and I'm obviously on the west side near the university, the university traffic impacting that quadrant of the west side is unbelievable. Out of my garage, it can take me 15 minutes to get just to the freeway. And then you're in gridlock on the freeway if you're going south.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

And that's a mile, people, just so you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

Yeah, the freeway is less than a mile from us. Yeah. That's how much traffic is. And what I've realized is that okay, two things to touch on what you're you're touching on. The the traffic is a major component to enjoying this town. You adjust, sure. But it changes. If you say you guys want to come over for dinner, we're going to say it has to be like after seven if it's a weekday or a weekend. Yeah. There's no chance that we're going to sit in 45 minutes of traffic to go seven, eight miles to your house. At best. Yeah. Right. And that changes our access to different friends all over the county that we hardly ever see. And it's sad. That's part of why it doesn't feel like there's community here like there used to be. It's part of what, and you know, I've you've we've talked about this. Like, how do you like the community is there? Why don't we feel it? Why don't why don't why aren't we gathering as much as we used to, or you know, and that's part of it. And it's not the only reason, but the traffic in this town has definitely changed the living experience. The other thing I wanted to touch on is that if you're you know, you've alluded to Jay and what his seemingly negative Well, yeah, I I I would I I wouldn't He's talking about the things we all feel.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

So so so vocalizing the flaws. He's vocalizing the flaws. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

If you're vocalizing the flaws is not such a bad thing, but are you a part of the solution? If you're just ranting with your your fists on the table, you're you're not a part of the solution. And I just hope that they maybe he can come on your show.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

Yeah, yeah. Well, I I mean, it's all getting in play. And um yeah, he he's he seemed well, look, he's a good-hearted guy. You know, I've met with him already. We've we've had our exchanges. You know, he genuinely has the finger on the pulse of of what has been really uh, you know, to your point, like this thing that just keeps building and dividing us from each other when we're from here. Um and and like just what you just said, I I I would never think of traffic as being a divisive point. Like you just saying that just now, like for whatever reason it hit me, but that's only because I'm experiencing it now, because I moved somewhere else six weeks ago. Oh, that's what he means, you know, because I could I could walk here in 12 minutes, but I drove my car here in seven for, you know, 13 years. You know, like like that it's not my experience getting back to that, that that how how how I I don't think entitlement's the right word or or necessarily privilege, but you know, there's just a reality I don't understand. And because of where I lived in proximity to all the things I did, it's not impactful, right? I'm I'm five to seven minutes from everywhere I wanted to be because I live in the jewel box, damn it. You know, it's like to most the the exclusive area in in Capitola. And yet, you know, to my point, it's like I I I'm realizing how much friction I was in now that I'm in country. And it's like, oh, that this is what peace feels like. Oh my gosh, I don't know how to quite deal with it yet. I'm I've gotten out of hiding in my bedroom. I now actually experience the whole upstairs, you know, not really downstairs yet, but you know, it's just a different I I'm in what's called a house now, everywhere else, you know, everywhere else other than the than the Bay Area. But uh, you know, I now have a house. And so, you know, I'm getting used to having to walk places in my house, not not just turn around and have it be there. But but the but that that all joking aside, that speaks to something, right? I got room yet, wow, like the the I didn't realize how much friction I was in, you know, being in the hub.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:49

And that's a great example of how we feel. The traffic makes us feel confined to our quadrant of the west side. You can only go one direction. And if it like I can walk downtown in seven minutes, but I can drive there in 15. Yeah. It's certainly from 3 p.m. on or you know, 7:30 to 9. But walking downtown, which was a big draw when we bought our house, is no longer the draw that it used to be. And my wife, I'm not comfortable with her walking downtown at night, and that's terrible. Yeah. She's obviously not comfortable with it, but I wouldn't want her to do it alone. Yeah. And that's a terrible way to feel. And so this impacts our joy. And so when you say, Oh, I never thought of traffic. Well, that that confinement affects our joy. And you should be able to live in an environment where you have joy. And a crucial element of that is your community. And the other part of it is the bedroom aspect of being near the university. Like I have neighbors that change every year, you know, and and we have to be patient. There's students. Yeah. Yeah. And they party and they're loud and they do stupid things and there's trash strewn out over the yard and across the all wants me to call uh every time there's a party past 1001. And it's like this too shall pass. You know, we were there. You have to get over it. But doesn't lend itself to feeling like you can walk over and say, hey guys, uh, do you have any milk or do you have something like just neighborly stuff? Hey, do you need help with your project or what's going on in your lives? And that lends itself to isolation. And that's, you know, you add that to the traffic and uh the situation going on downtown with a lot of the the drug use and the homelessness. It's it feels like isolation.

Hard Truths, Policy, And Potential

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

Yeah. Yeah. And and let's speak to this, you know, because I I I really think that what has shifted, especially since COVID. You know, that like it it was already on the path of feeling more and more isolated. The COVID experience in Santa Cruz when you had half the world move here, you know, because everybody went remote. And that is what happened. I mean, you have no idea, people, how many$200,000 campers showed up where you had people literally from around the world, let alone the Bay Area, Los Angeles, and all that, just decide that Santa Cruz was where they were going to be. You know, we went from homeless encampments to people who could live anywhere in the world camping in your front yard. Like that's that's what happened here. And then that created a deeper impact on the communities because once you give the rich people permission, the poor people get to do it too. You know, it like like it it what it broke was something again, it was a space that was available, it was the nature of Santa Cruz, kind of what made it great is that you could be a vagabond here and still hang in there. But the reality is like once everybody got permission to be here, because the wealth showed up, everybody's now here. And you know, I and again, I'm not even talking about the West Side, I didn't even bother going over there. I didn't want to see what was going on, what happened at Pleasure Point was ridiculous. It was fucking ridiculous. I I don't know how else to put it. The amount of yeah, I got the money, fuck you, I'm doing it. You know, it's like wait, if I showed up to your neighborhood in Menlo and just parked my van in front of your house, you'd be okay with that? Like that kind of contrast, you know, what was a very rough thing to take and then it kind of had to be accepted because it's a difficult problem to solve. Yeah. And we are moving away from that, and that's you know, that's good in some ways, but it also kind of opened the town up in a really cool way. Uh I mean I I remember the first concert on Rockview Drive. It's they'd finally dropped the COVID restrictions, and all of a sudden there's a band playing on Rockview Drive, and now every night since then there are at least 20 people watching a sunset when I never saw anybody there at sunset before that, if not 40 to 100, like no joke. Every night, if it's gonna be a good sunset, trust me, there's no parking cars lined up all the way down Rockview, and everybody just you have 20 cars just that's you know, quadruple parked, you know, like it just is now the norm. And it's great because it opened my eyes to like, wow, I missed all those sunsets, but like really, you know, you're just gonna leave your car in the middle of the road all the way down the road, and because we're all watching the sunset now, I actually need to go feed my kids dinner. You know, like like like the the lack of real empathy in any ways to to what your behaviors are doing. We're sitting in this weird hub of that, you know, like the like it it happened to us, this kind of ignorant view of people's impact on one another. And so we feel that, you know, and I think Santa Cruz, more than a lot of regions, is the front end of that that ignorance because of lack of empathy. And and I'm not condemning anybody, I don't I don't want to harp on on people wanting to experience the beauty of this place, but you know, at any moment on East Cliff Drive, you'll see five or six people illegally parked, and it's dangerous to do what they're doing, and they don't see what the problem is because they're just taking a picture of the sunset. And it's like, well, it ends up people live here. You know, we we we need to get around your car. Uh like this, this is this is great, but uh, you know, my kids got to get to practice, and you're blocking the road so you can take a picture. Like this this is the hub of that kind of behavior now, you know, where, well, I'm here, so I get to because you know, I saw the pictures and I want to post my picture now.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

I think you're talking about the the feeling that the livelihoods of protecting the communities that live here, that doesn't feel like it's happening that much. Like we're pulling back and saying, well, you have your nice house, you have your nice privilege, we're not gonna defend it. And I I experience that because I have an office downtown Santa Cruz that I walk to almost every day. And it's not it's not a fun walk. It's a lot of days it's no big deal, but I I do usually have to pass people that aren't mentally stable or that are, you know, uh overdosing, passed out, yelling, all of the above every single day, just because of the journey through the downtown area. And I've seen a lot of businesses, good businesses leave because they're just not willing to deal with it anymore. And the city, I think they do the best that they can, but but do they really? Like it's it's a shifting priority. If you if you want to have a central community, a hub where people can gather, your your town center, what the what they call the central business district in most other parts of the world, should be protected as a place that invites your community to gather, shop, eat, walk. And who do you know that thinks of downtown Santa Cruz as that place where you can gather safely and bring your kids here and there? It's beautiful. But the likelihood of you having some incident is really high. And that's unfortunate. And the vacancies downtown, we aren't prioritizing some of the core elements that make Santa Cruz great. And the part that eats me alive is that there's endless potential here.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:27

Think about it. We are in the hills that meet the ocean. You'll never get massive development because there's just not enough land until you get to the hills and over the hill into the valley, and it's protected in the north. And we are that little town where the mountains meet the ocean, and that's a coveted dynamic the world over. This little south-facing, south and west-facing community is endless potential. And we're squandering it because we don't know what to do. We're dealing with problems that aren't easy to solve. But that to me isn't what you were describing is it's that's not being defended. Just like businesses downtown, like really good businesses, one that moved here to Capitol not too long ago. Great coffee house, great person, great build himself from the ground up, and he had a following and people, he was doing really well. But every single day, he had to get someone from sleeping in front, defecating in front. He had to clean all that up. He had to watch people lined up coming into his coffee coffee house being yelled at by people that are just yelling. It's not anything to do with those people. It's just, oh, I have an ear. I'm going to rage on you. And then you you ask yourself, I I walk to work every single day, and I have the privilege of being male. And I think if I encounter something, I'm just gonna thump this person and protect myself. Well, remove yourself from that privilege for a second and imagine what it's like for a woman. Yeah. I use the example of my wife, and she's like, I just don't feel comfortable. And I've been with her in moments where I'm like, wow, if I weren't here right now, she is not in a safe environment. This person, I was just with this guy picking up metal chairs from a restaurant after hours outside of Penny and throwing them into the air onto the street while cars were passing by. These are metal chairs. Wrong place, wrong time. Also, families bringing kids down, and there's, you know, they someone starts screaming, or or you know, the knuckle dragger that's on a fentanyl overdose or whatever it is, are hunched over and their knuckles are touching the ground and and you gotta like walk around them in the middle of the sidewalk. What do you tell your kids? And believe me, I know these are hard problems to solve, but if we're not protecting our communities and our central business areas where then we're all just isolated and we're all just going to our little safe places and we're just getting our little moment of peace and we're going back into our our crazy lives.

Venezuela, Zimbabwe, And Hard Choices

SPEAKER_00 1:16:03

Yeah, you know, it it's I'm sure you share at least part of this view. Yeah, when I raised my kids, which might be hard for anybody who knows my adult children to believe, you know, they they were basically raised in a pacifist, gun-free household. And it's really weird to be sitting contemplating getting my CCW because of, you know, and it's not all the time. It's just, you know, I'm in South County now. You know, these roving bandits that steal bicycles uh in in the communities. Well, they also have another crew, you know, that that you know does strong arm robberies. We don't talk about it, but it happens. It you know, and it happens in waves and you know, the the criminal syndicates are the criminal syndicates. But you know, it's like but it's weird for me, you know, having trained to be a cop once I learned how to use weapons and I certainly know how to fight. Um you know, who can protect myself in most situations, you know, sit sitting with a reality of like, huh, you know, the sheriff's not gonna be here for 15 minutes. You know, and you know, more concise community, it's a little bit safer. You know, but but to have these things pass through my mind. You know, that that it's not that I I don't feel safe. I have to acknowledge in some ways, am I as safe as I think that I am? Not in because of the isolation that you're talking about that's developing. You know, why why is this crossing my mind now? You know, it's like like I'm more trained than I've ever been, you know, as a fighter, but but but the the extremes of the realities, which which again, you know, I can't express this enough. Santa Cruz just lives in a weird vein of what people are feeling and experiencing, and we happen to have to hit all those things. It's just a very strange spot. And it's not that I am gonna do it, it's just weird that I thought it. You know, like like this is a guy who like I do not want a weapon in my house. You know.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:34

But you feel pushed that you might be on the edge of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:39

Well, the it's it's just the our are our now common realities, you know, that that it's been easy to ignore my whole life. But you know, it it's it's here we go. You know, how how do I sort through what is this feeling? You know, you know, it and again, weird topic. Last thing I would think I'd be thinking when I was 56.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:07

And to be fair, it doesn't always mean that you're safer because then you pull out a gun, someone else pulls out a gun.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:14

It's but the statistics don't lie. You know, I I I know those stats, and and it's just odd that this is a thought that has crossed my mind in these moments.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

You know, it it's it's a very weird paradigm that that we're in, you know, in that when you look at the elements and how they've changed, there's now new elements to consider. You know, and that that that's the nature of most things is is that when things change, things change and and you have to you have to acknowledge the elements. Yeah. So you know, it it is an interesting spot right now. And you know, to your point about Downtown, and you know, we we grew up in an era, and this is what's really shifted that most of the homeless people, it was chosen homelessness in some way, and they were very amenable. You know, this is there's just a lifestyle choice. And, you know, for whatever the reasons were, you know, we had a lot of Vietnam vets here. They just weren't good for like living in society the way people normally would. And there was a beauty to it. But I mean, I can't tell you how many homeless people I knew by name when I grew up, and they were just part of the community. Homelessness is not that now. Homelessness means means something very different. You know, the mental illness challenges, you know, of course, all the addiction issues that that it's always come with it. It's just different. You know, it's way more violent, it's way more out there. And, you know, while Santa Cruz has always been a hub for this stuff, it's you know, when you can't keep businesses open downtown, which is which is where we're at, you know, this once thriving downtown that used to be the place to go to because of the businesses there. And this is what people fail to recognize. I I mean, be all about the social justice you want to. The reality is that this sympathic was the business owners were helping, you know, with homelessness because they were able to be open and had the money to help with the resource.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:41

Not to mention the taxes that it drew in for the city to have the infrastructure to do all kinds of great things to keep the city thriving.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:49

Yeah. You know, it it it's like the the nature of business and social values that that was a little bit more integrated. Uh, you know, when when we had the experience of of having lived here, seeing that separation of you know, people who are more socially just oriented and not realizing the the important impact that business has. You know, like these uh, you know, I had a friend of mine, you know, a venture guy who um, you know, he hadn't visited, really truly visited Santa Cruz in about, you know, 15 years. And we went downtown, he's like, oh my gosh. She goes, Well, there goes your homeless problem. You know, with you know, you can't have 3,000 people who spent, you know,$1.5 million on an apartment. That's a lot of phone calls. Yeah, that's a lot of phone calls, you know. And you know, as much as I think downtown's a blight on itself now with how how big those things are, it's like, yeah, you know, that's got a lot of wealthy people moving in right there, and they're not gonna put up with the shit that people who are just visiting put up with. And, you know, it'll change, you know, it never really truly goes away. But the nature of commerce and these problems is is an integral part of this conversation. Not that we're coming to any conclusion, it's just that like these things are interrelated. And if businesses don't work, then homes are what are going to show up. And if the you know, and it's still not answering the problem. And you know, I I don't know what the solution is. I don't think it's easy. I I think it's picked up one thing at a time, you know, to your point earlier. Um but how how to approach that stuff, I uh I mean uh where to begin. Yes, and and again, it's you know, Jay coming into this situation, I really like outside eyes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:45

No, it's good. It's a good wake-up call for everyone. And and and really the answers aren't easy, but there are answers, and the conversation is what leads to those, hopefully, those answers. Yeah, right. And it's transition, but think of our country at the moment. We are in a transit transition of redefining. Think about it. Yeah, our town is much the same way, and and we've seen this come and go. I walked the streets of downtown, what, four or five months ago, and I counted the vacancies in like an eight square block area, and it was 24 vacancies. And you remember that it it it ebbs and flows, yeah, and you'll have this bustling growth, new restaurants, new shops, and how many ice cream stores and cookie stores can we have? But it it will thrive again, and that's part of this transition. But if we don't have policies in place that protect and support a thriving central business district, it will always ebb and flow to more extremes. And and that's what I hope the answers get to. If you're not protecting the businesses, you're shooting yourself in the foot as a government because think of the tax revenue. Yeah. And I can go on about stories of what it's like to get a business license and how accommodating and friendly. I know lots of people that have left and opened shops in Watsonville, and the Watsonville's like, come on in, how can we help you? We're gonna wave this and we're gonna wave this and and and let us know, you know, what you need to get open. We want to support you. And you're just like, Wow, yeah, you're gonna help me help the community? This is amazing. Santa Cruz, in some ways, you know, this is generalizing. And and you, you know, for you the people listening, you have to understand that Michael and I love living here. It's it's an amazing place with lots of problems, but most places have problems. It's how seriously do we take them? And and do you feel that the infrastructure and the design of our communities is being protected for the people that are trying to thrive here? Right? And you say, okay, well, it's not that wealthy of a community. Well, we're we're insanely wealthy by comparison. The problem is that every single month we start over generating wealth because you spend it. Yeah, you really do. But this place could be so special. And it starts with conversations with what it sounds like you'll have with Jay and get that perspective from the outside. But know that we're in a period of transition. Think about the dynamic we talked about before we we went on tape here, where you know, my wife grew up in Venezuela. Yeah. We just invaded the country and extracted the president and his wife and bailed and said, You're done. And as much as that is like shocking, like, how do you feel about us just going into other countries and circumventing their well, it turns out that it's really great for the people of Venezuela. And that's I'm pointing this out because it's a very challenging time because so much good is being contrasted with potential bad. Like we're weighing these two sides going, this feels right, but we're so close to wrong, or this is wrong, but good is happening. How do you how do you wrap your head around things like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:06

Well, it it it it creates stress. And I I I've heard stress defined like in the simplest term is like you have two conflicting values that are both true at the same time, and you're stuck in between those two truths. And I have more than demonstrated through my words my disdain for our current administration, but Venezuela. You know, it it's it's these hard realities that I mean you live with that reality. You know, your wife had to flee that country because of that reality.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:47

Her whole family flee.

Men’s Mental Health And Connection

SPEAKER_00 1:27:48

And you know, gosh, if it was Obama, you know, because you know, both of us liberals here, it'd be, oh, it's so good they're finally free, but because it's, you know, and living with that conflict, you know. You know, it's like I hate saying the guy's name. But you know, right thing, right moment, we'll we'll have to weigh that out a little bit. You know, it's uh do I like it? No. But choose your evils. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:17

Well, I left the house that day that the that we invaded and and took over, took out the president and his wife. Um it was more of an extraction than an invasion, but yeah. My wife, we looked at each other and we're like in this weird zone of being like excited and disturbed at the same time. And then she started checking in with people who live there and family that's been her whole family fled Venezuela years ago. They're all living in different places around the world. And they'd love to go home. They absolutely would. And I drove, I left that house that day to go downtown, and there was protesters already out on the corner. Yeah, the classic, usually older white Santa Cruz with pickets, get out of Venezuela, this is imperialism, stop now, impeach, all this other stuff. And and normally, like I might align with some of that stuff. And totally I wanted to pull over and say, people, do you know anyone from Venezuela? Have you been to Venezuela? Do you recognize that the vast majority of the population of Venezuela is celebrating right now? Celebrating. They're so thankful because guess what? In your privileged little enclave here in Santa Cruz, you have no idea what it's like to live in a country, your home country, that fails and fails you by oppressive regime, which means either you support the regime or you don't matter and you will go scene. Yes. Bye-bye. Yeah. And so try imagine, it's the same in Zimbabwe. You can't speak out politically against it's a dictatorship in Zimbabwe, it's a dictatorship in Venezuela. If you don't know what that's like, if you've never lived or known someone that's lived in that, you can't get up on your high horse from the cheap seats and say this is wrong and we should never. Well, let me ask you this. What does international law mean to you? Is it is it something that we should exercise in theory or in practice? And if you if you believe it should be exercised in practice, what has international law done for anybody in Ukraine or Palestine or Venezuela or Zimbabwe or numerous other countries where grotesque inhumane atrocities are happening to the populations that live there? What has international law done for them? And so, in this rogue sense of the US coming in to take out this oppressive dictator who was not legitimately elected, in fact, the world agrees that he was not the legitimate, he just decided, well, I'm gonna stay in power anyways. I feel good about that, and it feels weird to feel good about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:09

Yeah I you know I I I I will As someone who's very attuned to geopolitical issues, and you know, Braden would know how attuned I am. I you know, I don't share deeply on this microphone. But the nature of capitalism, America's influence on the world, that kind of stuff, is it it it's my hobby horse. Man, I don't know what I'm looking at right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:40

Nobody does, Mike. Yeah, yeah, it's that's why this this podcast, these conversations for our community, they're crucial.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:47

I implore you, please keep having this conversation. Yeah. Your voice, your opinions, your insight, they're crucial, and they've always been crucial as a friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:56

I've never been able to sort of like pinpoint that. And sometimes you go deep in the weeds and I gloss over, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:02

You're still, you're, you're reacting to your experience, and you have a very wide, broad sense of subjects. And that asset to our community is priceless. Really? Thank you for that. For as long as I've known you, that I've I've felt that way. I just haven't been able to put it in words. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:22

Yeah. No, it it it's uh, you know, whatever idiot savant trait that I have where I just see systems and, you know, not not uh spend a little bit more time with capitalism, you know, for very different reasons than than one who's listening might imagine. Uh you know, the beauty of it, the beauty of this country, you know, that that also happens to be capitalist. You know, they're two different things, but this liberal democracy that that we get to thrive in in some way is such a gift. And we get to live in this moment. It's it's there's so much contradiction. It's the reality that, you know, Venezuela's hopefully going to be free from some of the damage that these administrations had put on them while at the same time we're watching the antithesis of it in Minneapolis, you know, where where we have to say yah but with everything. And also, yeah, you know, it it's it it's it's very it's very conflicted.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:31

Look, I'm not naive. This is not easily a kumbaya moment for Venezuela wherever they just write off into the sunset and everything's hunky-dory from this point forward. All praises to you know America. It's not, it's gonna be, yeah, it's gonna have and and and like we have done many times in the past, it's quite possible we make the situation worse. We're good at that. Yeah, but you need at the end of the day, you just have to carve out your place and and recognize, okay, these are uncertain times where you can you can resist the process of transition every step of the way, or you can recognize that you're in a state of transition and you can look forward to helping shape what our next version is.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:21

You know, I I've been putting it this way. You know, this this last election of people I know and love, and and we we share the same values. Like let's just, you know, but this this common reality we now have that that our commander-in-chief is a reflection of who we are, whether you like it or not. And you can you you you can say, Oh, that's not my guy. Well, guess what? It's your guy, you know, whether you want it to be or not. And the vast majority of the country chose that guy. It was not my choice. That being said, um he's touching the things that have needed to be touched for a very long time. And the ignorance built in to my party about those things is is what people who are attracted to him see. You know, that that that as a party, you know, on the Democrat side, on the political side, you know, keep capitalism out of it. We've talked a lot about a lot of shit and haven't done shit other than you know, like like the there are very important social structures that have been put in play in my lifetime that are vital to America being America, you know, gay marriage, uh, you know, Affordable Care Act, the these kinds of things that like like we need to be better. But watching how it's being done right now is just very hard to watch, but they still are the things. And wrapping yourself, you know, getting out of your emotion, wrapping yourself around that reality that yeah, these are the things. You know, that that if if you don't understand the necessity of gosh, I don't want this to be too political. If you don't understand the necessity of Putin Putin needing grain and natural gas and fertilizer transacted in rubles, then I can't talk to you about Russia and Ukraine. Like if you don't understand that imperative inside of what a global capitalist market, then we cannot talk because you're just not talking about what's actually going on. And people are dying because we can't sit down and talk about what's actually going on. It's at the Ukraine's expense. But you forgot that in 2016 it was Ukraine that interfered with our election, which is how we got with Donald Trump. You forgot. You don't get to forget that you forgot. You know, like not on your line. No, well, I just I just I have no time for it, you know, because like the message got easily shifted to Russia, and it was not Russia, it was Ukraine that sent that note to Comey. And we forgot.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:28

So we're famous for forgetting things.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:30

For forgetting things. And we forgot when we invaded Iraq that Putin said, oh, we're doing this again. We forgot. Oh, we've moved on from there. Yeah, no, we haven't. We're doing this again. And who started it? You know, and we need to be better. And that's the reality.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:52

And you didn't want this to get too much.

Loss, Aging, And Staying Engaged

SPEAKER_00 1:37:57

Yeah, shit. Anyways. I'm sorry, people. I'd probably piss all of you off. But it's about the oil, Mike. Yeah, let's go to men's mental health. It is about the oil. They're gonna put caps on it. There you go. Yeah. That's that's that's uh that's what the oil thing is.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:14

The big outcry that we hear is, well, how do you feel? People are asking Graciela that aren't familiar. And what how do you feel about them stealing all the oil, taking over this country? She's like, well all the oil was already going to Russia, China, Ukraine, and Cuba. Yeah. And they are extracting maybe 25% of what their potential to extract is. And thank God we have an asset that attracted this powerful country to come in and hopefully free us from this tyranny, right? Yeah. Moses, first thing he said to me was send them to Zimbabwe, please.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:55

Sorry, buddy, you don't have oil. Yeah, yeah, just artists. It's disgusting and it's real, and that's the the confounding mental space that we are in in the world, in this country, but certainly in the world. Like I have people on both sides of the political spectrum writing to me, and and the the current thread is is almost unanimous. Like, what the F is going on? Who knows up from down, where we're going, why we're doing what we do. It's it's it's it's an uncertain transitional period.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:31

Yeah. And just audience, just so we can close this loop, just so you know, the United States of America is the largest oil producing country in the world. That happened because we invaded Iraq, we shut their pumps down, got them out of the game, and that's what it was about. It was about oil. You're right. It was about them not producing oil. And what is this most likely? Likely about Venezuela not producing oil.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:04

It's most likely about geographically dominant.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:14

That's too complex of a conversation. But yes, it's the Americas are in play. Okay. Last topic. Well, big topic. You wanted to talk about mental health, men's men's mental health specifically. It's been a recurring theme. And again, this is this is a good open discussion format to talk about a process I think we've both gone through in the last few years of really, really getting clear. Well, that struggle's probably not even the right word. You have different experience with mental health than I do. But but but you know, we we've both been through things, you know, high times, low times, uh seeking clarity. There's a clarity that that I've come into the last couple years, uh, you know, where my depression just went away, you know, all the ideations that kind of came with that. You know, it's a new day for me. I wake up in good moods in the morning, you know, like I'm re-experiencing being Michael Howard. And but there's been a thread, you know, that we've had text exchanges on of the mental health crisis going on with men. And, you know, maybe there's a starting point for you in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:41

Just what I think that came from a discussion we had where I just wanted you to know that listening to your podcast, seeing this recurring sort of sub-theme come up from a lot of the people you were interviewing and hearing, you know, what shaped them and what affected them. And and trauma, man, it can come in many different forms. But I just wanted to say that that's that's a really valuable conversation for you to be having and for other people to get to listen to and feel like they're not living it in isolation. And so don't discount that. And and for me, you know, I've learned a lot listening, just sorting through the feelings I have for Santa Cruz, the feelings I have for trauma, um, for what's happening um, you know, on the on the male end of the spectrum presently in this community and and other communities. It's not just here. And and I think that conversation is a great start towards feeling connected. And that's really a big part of what I feel is missing in Santa Cruz is is that gathering and the socializing. And I see it a lot more when I travel to different countries where people still get out and they get together and they talk, you know, the hem and the how. And these are conversations that are crucial. And the more we become isolated, the more we feel like we're just in our own little zone. It it exacerbates the problem. And there comes that isolation. For me, trauma was different. You know, I had I had proximity to heavy depression. You know, you and I had talked uh forever. My brother um dealt with it severely. One of my dear friends dealt with it severely. Um, and so I'm uh it's always been this confounding where does this come from and why? And these are all people like yourself who are highly intelligent, highly artistic, highly capable, and and deeply loved. So you think like, okay, you have the intelligence, you have the support, you have the love in the community. And where does this torture come from and why? And it's a difficult, it's a very difficult thing that doesn't have one answer. For me, the the struggles that shaped have shaped me have been like traumatic loss, losing my father 20, 24 years ago, if you believe that. Losing my brother, losing several very close friends. And these are things that I had to account for in this conversation about Santa Cruz as to what why am I feeling that Santa Cruz may no longer be the place I want to live? Which my wife and I were, we were teetering. Yeah. And when you lose that many people close to you later in life, it's a severe loss, more so than when you're younger. And think of SoCal High, and between you know, brunch and lunch and after school, and everyone gathers in the quad and you just have instant, massive groups of socialization. Then you have the after-school stuff, you have the surfing and the volleyball and all the get-togethers. Think of the do-it-gatherings and the volleyball tournaments and the pool tournaments, and those seem to be much harder to come by later in life. And you're you deal with a much smaller, close-knit group of friends. And when you lose those people, you feel it. It's like and I and going back to what I was talking about earlier, the crucial friends, the angel friends, you know, the and the people that that help you feel joy in your life and feel like a place is worthy of your investment of your life. Like, what do we all wake up hoping? I mean, for me, I wake up every day excited for man, another another day to do something great, whether it's with friends, with my wife, or for other people. And the mental health element of it I just wanted to say keep keep that conversation going and keep asking people to share what what how what their experience has been. Because the people listening that might relate get value out of that. Yeah.

Generations, Belonging, And Hope

SPEAKER_00 1:46:13

Yeah, it's again this the you know, most of this stuff gets pulled through my lens, you know, and I I get to uh enjoy a unique view, right? That that most of the things that I did were driven by my own experience. So to be there for others that was has been my goal in life, you know, just you know, because cause I experienced the same feelings. And and although the experiences might be different, the it might might have circumstances, you know, because my lifestyle is you know it's pretty tight. Always has been tight. Even in my darkest of hours, you know, it's not like I was out and about. Um but that feeling of aloneness, you know, in in your thoughts, you know, and recognizing some of the things that are around you that appears everybody else is ignoring. You know, it's like, hey, don't you see this? And then you realize maybe you're the only one looking or who wants to look. You know, that that's generally it it's a pretty big framework for for these rabbit holes that I think uh people who live on the depression side of the spectrum, you know, that they're generally deep empaths who never get to work through their whole empathetic cycle of being able to see things, then do things for others, because that that really is the joy or of of living is is you know, giving what you were given. You know, being able to give that stuff away and and recognizing how lucky you are to even though things might be bad, to be able to do something good for someone else. Like it it's a powerful thing. I mean, it kept me alive for for 53 years, you know, before I get to enter this new phase in life, you know, where where it's not driven from that pain that I have, but I still can do those good things. Uh you know, that the you know, you get by giving. That's just the reality of being human. Sorry, you don't get to get out of it. You know, that that's how it works. Um you know, I could pound scripture in in this microphone like I used to for 25 years about what that means and how we can interpret that. But, you know, the person that I call God, that's what he said. You know, you want to be first in line, be last. Try that one on, you know, just serve others and and it's amazing what will happen, especially if you do it in love. It it's it's an amazing prospect of of being able to wake up in the morning and take that perspective. You know, how how can I best serve the people that are around me? And you know, circling back to to you know what you're saying is that these conversations matter. They do. How how to enter into them is is interesting. You know, like when I started the podcast, I I didn't I was working out my own shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:30

But that started the conversation. You opened up about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:34

And then you opening up about it in this environment invites someone else to feel comfortable to also open up about it. Even listening to it opens someone up to being like, oh, people are talking about this now. I can talk about it too. I just see the value in that. Yeah. To me, I was using it as in a reference to the ongoing conversation we had about Santa Cruz and what's missing and why are we yearning for something that's not here anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:04

Yeah, and and it is those. Uh I again you've highlighted some things that I've completely forgot. The car rides to the beaches, how they saved your life. You know, because you could check all the surf with your buddies, and even though you're smoking a clove when it's all done and not going out, you were with your buddies. Yeah, you know, listening to the cure the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:26

I wonder why I'm so sad. I just wanted to point out you stayed with surfing longer than I did because you were always bigger and more intimidating. Yeah. Like if you could have surfed with me every day that I went out and had my back, I probably would have stayed. But I was this tiny, skinny little kid that I wasn't gonna push anybody around.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:44

I still have that glimpse of you the first time I saw you at first peak, you know, the the blue eyes and oh shit. Here we go. You know. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it it's not that I'm letting any cat out of the bag. It it has been interesting, you know, the conversations, you know, especially since Nick Barelli shared what he did, you know, about surfing and the you know what happened around the point a little bit, you know, because of that, because he really boy, he stuck his finger in it. Just went, it's that spot, and everyone went, oh, you know, ouch, that one hurt.

unknown 1:51:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:20

Uh, you know this conversation that's generating, you know, with with some older folks our age and some younger folks that, you know, maybe we should be getting together and just being together. You know. Did I think that would happen by doing this? No, but boy, I'm excited that that might happen. Not just for us, but for the young men that are around me to feel like they have a place to go to, like a group of dudes that have been through it. You know, and and this is the part, it it's so hard without downplaying the realities of the zeros we're talking about. You know, the amount of money that it takes now to do the things that we got to do. I don't want to diminish that prospect. But the pain different environment entirely. The pain, though, is not different.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:22

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:23

And it hasn't changed. And, you know, given our our generational uh experience being Gen X, it's not as though the future was gift wrapped by our parents. You know, that sure you know, there are some people that maybe it was that way, but for the most part, as a generation, what you're going through Gen Z is not new in the sense that the format hasn't changed just the zeros, you know, to to to get in. And it's just an attitude that that as a whole generation that's just how they've learned to survive, but it creates a lot of harm behind it. You know, there's there's a big wake with this big yacht that they're driving around in the economy and and you know, you Gen Z, you're not the only ones. And I know we look like them, but but Gen X is not that group.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:23

You know, you've had some 20-year-olds on this show, on this podcast that were really impressive. Yeah, they're a very impressive group. And that gave me hope. And there was those are some of the ones I enjoyed the most because I got to see Santa Cruz, having grown up here since I was born. I got to see Santa Cruz through someone else going through those formative younger years and what it what it's like for them. And that's fascinating because we do have to agree that nothing stays the same, right? So we're we had a completely different environment. That um that support from our families was the the boot out the door at the age of 17, figure it out, and uh best of luck. Yes it's different now. It's very different. And some of that is beautiful. Like what comes of that if you define you take that moment and you choose the good path and the work ethic and the perseverance and the the drive, man, you can make a great life for yourself. But we had an opportunity that's very different than the opportunity out the door for kids today, younger generation, out of high school, out of college. It's just a different dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:37

Yeah. You you you have a lot more content to work with, but it's also a lot more content to uh to suss through. You know, who's being truthful. You know, what what what what does the whole truth actually look like, not the cultural common truth at the moment.

Closing Thanks And Local Support

SPEAKER_01 1:54:57

So last thing I was gonna share with you is that I I thought of it this morning when I was thinking about where this conversation might go. And um one of the things was that 24 years ago this year, you officiated the memorial of my father's passing. Which sounds crazy to say that it's been that long. But and I was thinking about like, does Mike even know like what he means to me? Because we don't get to see each other months, but when we see each other, we instantly connect and it's always like boom, right to the the deep stuff. But I didn't ask you, I wouldn't have asked you 24 years ago to officially. It wasn't because you were like my favorite godly person, and that affiliation wasn't wasn't part of the the thought process, but it was because I knew you would handle such a big event in my life and other people's that knew my father, you would handle that with grace and with care. And you did. That was 24 years ago. The other thing I was gonna tell you, and I'll give you the short version of this, is that as you know, in 2021, I found myself in the emergency room at Dominican Hospital. I had a stroke and I'm sitting there, and it was still COVID era, and I was it was patient zero right in the middle of the room, and there's all the people on ventilators around me. Unfortunately, glass walls, like you could see everything, people being kept alive. But I had a stroke, and I was sitting there thinking, I just turned 50. It's like I was born in this same freaking hospital, and here I am, and what's the am I is this it? I'm going out the way I came in. I'm not ready. And the hardest part about it was that I sat there thinking, man, there's so much more I want to do. So much more I want to do. And I just thought of the irony of being in the hospital, facing what you know I didn't know at the time would turn out to be sort of best case of a worst case scenario. Um like, wow, what what if this is it? Yeah. And and it's I didn't need that wake-up call to feel like I need to live every day for the I already had that in me naturally, but I don't know. I don't know what it takes to get to that point where you you actually feel ready. Like I've I've lived my life. I'm when my time comes, I want 40 more years. Yeah, I'm selfish. But wanting 40 more years is part of the secret.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:32

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:32

Because if you think you're gonna be here 40 more years, you think carefully about the body you live in and how you treat it, the environment that you live in. Like I don't want to be here 40 years from now on on life support. I want to be surfing, playing disc golf, traveling the world. You know? Like if we're not, then what's the point? Are we just flipping pages?

SPEAKER_02 1:57:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:55

Yeah. Your conversations help people stop flipping the page and say, Oh, there's more. And it's okay, and there's other people, and I can talk about this stuff. So please.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:07

Yeah. Well, I I mean, I've said this to you before, you know, as of late. I'm in a really weird spot. And not that it being weird is new, it's a new kind of weird. Because right now I have more hope for humanity in life than I've ever had. And my motivations are a little bit different in that I I think people are seeing the things that I've been looking at most of my life. It's like, oh, finally everybody gets to see it, and everybody's depressed all at the same time. Not that I ever wish that, but it's like, well, now you see it. That's what it feels like to see all the things. It's overwhelming. But the cool part is, is you know, as I said to Jay, I don't think we ever get to solve the problems, but we get to move through them together, and that's the great joy of life. You know, that that that yeah, we're gonna set out to do things, we're gonna try, we're most likely gonna fail in some way, but we got to do it together. You know, and even I I love what my old pastor used to say if I got if I'm digging a hole on one side of the building and that whole that those people are digging, and the other people are filling a hole on the other side, at least we did something together. You know, and it sounds like futile, but like, no, you know, there's something to having your hands dirty, doing the same things, and just just getting to be with people and doing the things. And uh, you know, I I I guess what's beautiful about this moment is that these problems are real. And really, I I I do believe that for the first time in history we get to To see them for what they are, whether it's politics, whether it's the economy, geopolitical issues, or AI, which nobody is really talking about, like what the real impact it is. These problems are really real. And for the first time we can actually think about it and do something together, not just have it behind happen behind our back if we choose not to ignore it. And that's the privilege we have in history at this moment. You know, do we have a history to look back on and and know what to do? No. There's no adults in the room. Nobody's been through this before. The cool part is we could do it together. You know, and it's all very real. You know, it's not not fake made up stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:45

And so the doing it together is the part that's not guaranteed, but it's crucial.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:53

It's crucial. Like if we don't stop this train that we're on of being divided about stuff, and I just just don't know what to tell you people. Yes, I am a liberal democrat, but the problem's real. And uh we can do something about it. So, anyways. Keep doing what you're doing. That about ties it up. Braden, thank you for uh having to sit with me. I enjoyed the conversation. And for the rest of you, you have a really good rest of your day. I'd like to thank St. Cruise Vives magazine for uh all their support. Also Point Side Beach Shack for providing just a really great space for us to sit down and have these conversations. God bless you all. Take care.