Episode 73: Jay Brown: What Happens When A City Teaches You About Who You Really Might Be

A town can shape you before you notice. That’s the tension we explore as a longtime local sits with Jay Brown, who moved to Santa Cruz to be near his daughter and got pulled into its undertow of beauty, scarcity, and stubborn pride. We start with raw honesty—fear of influence, years of civic fatigue, and the ache of watching good ideas fall apart—and open into a bigger frame: what if surf culture explains more than surfing?

Jay and I trace how point breaks trained a mindset of safety and scarcity that spills onto land—into traffic patterns, housing stress, and the quiet competitiveness inside “mellow.” We talk third places, why they matter, and why they’re so hard to build when a community feels gatekept. The conversation pivots to intention and influence: using reach without performing for validation, and practicing a kind of civic repentance—naming what is true, breathing, and choosing better together.

Underneath policy and posts is the human problem: belonging. When people feel they belong, their nervous systems settle, creativity switches on, and gifts flow—products, services, and simple care we can all feel. Gatekeeping blocks those gifts. We wrestle with money as the language we all speak, AI as a non-answer to meaning, and the reality that markets mirror our choices. The aim isn’t a shiny win; it’s winning our hearts back, together, through small, durable commitments that make space for trust.

If you’ve ever loved a place that hurts you back, or wondered why a city can feel both open and closed, this one’s for you. Listen, share it with a friend who needs a little hope, and leave a review to tell us where you’re finding or building belonging.

Transcript

Vulnerability On The Mic

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Well get started.

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Is it already too late for Jimmy? That's right. You're listening to Unpacked in Santa Cruz right now. Hello, everybody. I am sitting across from a new friend, Jay Brown, and uh I'm gonna change the question a little bit that you've all been uh used to hearing. But it it you you'll find out why. You know, it's gonna lead to somewhere. But Jay, you had an idea about Santa Cruz before you moved here. Can you tell us about that thing that you saw when you weren't here?

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Well, it's interesting because the reason why I came to Santa Cruz was because my daughter moved up here after her mother and I transitioned out of our relationship. Because I was living in San Diego at the time when we had our daughter, we had our daughter there. And then uh she decided to move back to Santa Cruz, which is where she was living before we got into our relationship. So then when she left, came back here, I was like, okay, even though I have a deeply rooted community in San Diego, I've lived there for more than 30 years of my life. I was like, okay, I'm moving to Santa Cruz because it just feels like the right thing to do, to be in close proximity to my daughter. And so I didn't really have an idea of what it was gonna be like at all. I just said to myself, I'm gonna be a dad, and that's what I'm gonna focus on when I come up here. And now looking back, I feel like um I didn't consciously choose Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz chose me. And when I've shared that with a few friends, it feels like Santa Cruz chooses certain individuals, and I'm still unpacking why I was chosen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Yeah. What did you think about it before you showed up, or did you just not have any thoughts about it? You're just focused on your daughter.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yeah, I didn't have any thoughts about it. I didn't know very much about Santa Cruz until that time, you know, my ex said I'm moving back to Santa Cruz. And well, you know, before that, I had visited here to date her. And I was like, oh, this is a cool place. It feels nice. It's by the beach, you know. I'm so used to being by the beach growing up in uh San Diego, you know, born in the Philippines, also lived on Oahu, so the ocean I was always just comfortable near the ocean. I was like, oh, this is a pretty cool, sweet spot, but I don't want to move up here. You can move down to San Diego because I got a big community that I've grown there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

So yeah. So for all of you, you know, Jay and I have been talking, and and um it's very rare that I that I approach this podcast the way that I am, you know, especially this last year. That I what I was expressing to Jay is that that I feel a lot of vulnerability coming into this. And with the work that I'm presently doing, that I have been doing, it's not that it's that unique. Uh it's just that I know that for me, when I feel urgent, I either get sad or I get angry. Um when I'm sad, I will be a little bit more defensive. When I'm angry, I'll be a little bit more kind and maybe unusually kind, and that really doesn't get it to the thing, you know, because what I get mad about usually matters, and I just don't often know how to express that. And this is the process that I'm going through is is really sitting with, you know, what is this? And and uh and so in in my thought process process, you know, praying about this, contemplating it, you know, I I I've just really asked, you know, what is this urgency? You know, what what what is this thing? And uh I I wanted to write off you know, you know, start with where I'm at, you know, which is I feel this way right now. You know, that that that this it I have a lot of emotions that I can't easily get to, but I'm very open because I feel that this conversation is prophetic in some way. It's not happening now. We're talking about something that we can be hopeful about that will happen in the future. And like any human being, I I I have my perspective and I have my prejudices about those perspectives, you know, these these things that I've experienced, which cause me to think the way that I think because of experiences I've had in town and and the way that I grew up. And in as much as I'm really letting go of this Santa Cruz identity personally, that was just thrust upon me, that is what makes me feel comfortable, that has allowed me to be the person that I am everywhere I go. You know, what you're from Santa Cruz, yeah, they they know who I am because of where I'm from, and yes, I'm a key part in some way of this town. And so, you know, it's not super different from every other town, except that there aren't many towns where you have a global audience for what it means to be from somewhere. And, you know, as I as I've come to sort through these things, it was one of the reasons that I'm in such a vulnerable position is like all those feelings are back. You know, I've I've I've let go in as much as I can. It was weird to feel it all kind of bubbling up. And it, you know, it's not just the things that you've said that are wrong here. It's just that, oh, there's all those feelings again of feeling like I don't belong in my own town, you know, that these problems are not new, but like things that you're saying are not new. It's just that there's so much hopelessness built into this conversation on the front end because it's never really worked before. And so I've really had to position my heart in that spot. I want you to know that this is where I'm come from coming from. Why am I sitting across from you right now, Jay Brown? And I'm I'm uh leaving myself in a curious piece of stasis, right? I want to remain curious. I don't want my answers to be the answer that I walk away with. You know, it it's it's it's and I'm having to put it on. That's usually a natural piece for me. You know, it usually comes very easy, and for whatever whatever reason, I'm stirred up. But but I as I expressed to Jay before that, I don't think I'm stirred up because of him or myself. I think that I'm stirred up because we, you know, the collective of this town need to have this conversation. And so, you know, I wrote notes. I don't know why I didn't write on a piece of paper. I just didn't want to clutter the clutter. You know, so so there are some presumptions I have about you, and I just

Why Jay Moved To Santa Cruz

SPEAKER_02 7:45

want to put those out.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Okay. And I I've done my best not to data mine on you at all. You know, uh other than seeing three or four different stories. There's a couple I really clicked on to listen to the whole video. Certainly that one that went giant, where were you at 120,000 uh views? 160. Yeah, gosh, it got bigger from the time that you know, it just like something happened. And from my perspective, you know, I'm looking at something, you know, it's like, okay, there's this human. He showed up here, he ran into the wall that we call Santa Cruz, and we had a text exchange, you know, that you you you can you can go back to any any of Jay's work and see our text exchange of what you're listening to, and this is how it felt to me is like two men were meeting while we're going through a similar pattern, not the same pattern, a similar pattern. There's about 10 years in between us generationally. I don't know if that makes you an X or a millennial. So we're gonna put all that out the door. Um, but there are things that you're experiencing for the first time in this place that are just old hat to all of us. You know, so it's like there is this built-in prejudice of like, yeah, duh. You're not talking about anything new, Jay. Like, what what and and who the fuck are you to show up here and start talking about our we've been trying to get the furniture arranged in this house for a long time. You know, and and that's where that that resonant pain is. You know, for me, it's it's like, yeah, we've most of the people I know have tried and it just hasn't worked, you know, and it's not working once again, and it's not working in a new way. And for the most part, I I I when when I look at the collection that I've looked at, you know, when we had our conversation, and I'm I'm gonna alert you guys to what the conversation was. I just went and barfed to Jay to see if he would trust me. Not not not as like a uh you know, to to click him in somewhere, but just kind of like, look, here's who I am. He looked like a fairly cautious character, so I'm just I'm just gonna go. Let's see if he likes me when it's done, and just leave it at that. You know, let's see. Again, I I wasn't ready in this podcast to cover particular spaces. You know, you know, this is way too soon for how I had forecasted to to take up an issue and really decide to talk about it. Yet that's what we're doing. I I didn't get to decide on the timing. And even in our exchange, you know, when when I'm like, oh shit, my Instagram's blowing up, you know, just just from one little thing, you know, it wasn't that it was a significant amount. It was, you know, I got like 50 or 60 people, but I only had 200. You know, it's like, ah, you know, I don't even know if this is a Santa Cruz podcast yet. You know, you know, it's like my audience is mostly global and national. It's not hardly even California. And so it's like all the marketing in me, all the stuff, like I don't, I don't know, I don't know what I'm looking at. And here I go, and this guy's influencing here. I'm not sure that I want that, but I'm here. And this is this is the thing. So I'm just not making any decisions about this moment, except that from what I know of you, I love you for it. It feels good to be with you. I see your heart. Um, there's certainly conversations going on behind your back. You know, I I don't I don't think I've gotten more interplay on my end on DMs through Instagram or personally, about like, are you gonna get that guy on? You know, like, and it's like I, you know, it's kind of antithetical to what I'm trying to do, you know, but but it's clearly a conversation, even in my smaller circles now, even even though there's been times where I've had more influence, that the people that know me, know you, want us to talk. And and to me, that's what goes, yeah, let's let's do this thing. I mostly just wanted you to know that someone from here sees you. Not not for what you're doing, but just seeing you. And it's clear to me, you can get into it however you want to, however, the conversation progresses, that you yourself are doing some real big personal work also at the same time. You know, you're taking it out on Santa Cruz like I am. You know, it's you know, it's you know, we're we're we're trying to do the work. And um, and so thematically, I I I thought about, you know, the a way for us to step into this conversation that felt safe for me. Is that in the pictures that that I've seen you post, I recognized someone, and that was Jared from Cat and Cloud. And we're we're just gonna leave it right there. And I don't know Jared well in any way. He and I have talked for maybe five, 10 minutes at a at a time, as long as he's been here. He's a great guy. But Jared, and now I'm talking to you if you ever listen to this, is that I saw what he did here. I saw it. He you know what when the whole group from Verve came and then they they separated. Scaling was going a little too rapid. I have a business mind, I also have a spiritual mind to know what I'm looking at. I wasn't sure if Verve would work, it did. Then we saw the the break, you know, on the business side of him opening Cat and Cloud with Chris. I I don't know Chris. The first time I met Chris was at a funeral, you know, not too long ago. And we don't know each other, we've seen each other, but Jared is like a classic example of you know what is the third place look like? And their approach, you know, is has been beautiful. That they want to take care of their staff, that they're making sure they have health care, you know, that they're using commerce as a means to not just make the community stronger and the people that work around them, but also having that third place. You know, it's it's always obvious to me who the Christian kids are or were. Yes, I see you, Jared, because you reinterpreted something that needed to happen, you know, and then bringing what the economy would call more socialistic values, that being like, no, we're actually going to take care of our workers. I don't see the problem with that. But still allowing the commerce to work, you know, he created a third place. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful. And and and I love that that he moved from where he was from to come here because this was the place where it might work, and it worked. And that's just one of hundreds of ideas that can work. Again, from my perspective about you, Jay, just so we're clear, just you and I here alone, whether anybody's listening, is that I see you trying to look for third places for others. And what you don't know about what Jared went through, because I'm part of that problem for him, is Jared made the mistake of liking surfing. And so he was coffee guy whenever he paddled out. And it's the typical gauntlet out there. He wasn't yelled at, he wasn't, you know, everything had kind of eased a little bit. But the last time we talked, I don't know that he's surfing anymore because it just got old. And so that's what Cat Santa Cruz does. And so this is my perspective. You know, this this is where I'm at. You know, is that you know that I'm open-hearted about this conversation. I'm not coming with any big agenda other than to really hear what you're trying to do. But I do now want to start with what I start with with all of my audience. Um, Santa Cruz, what's your first thought? Now.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

No? You've been here for eight years. Yeah. First thought is it's beautiful. So beautiful. So much uh nature, you know, to experience here. The people here, I feel like are um they have such a deep love for this place, but also at the same time they hate it. And uh I don't think I've ever been anywhere else in the world where I've experienced that. And maybe hate is a strong word. It is a strong word.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

It's more that I think it's a fair word. No, no, honestly, Jay. Uh I mean I I'm okay with that word because I have hated Santa Cruz my whole life. Yeah. Yet loved it. Like the conflict, the stress of that.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

It's so interesting to observe that in so many people here. But then yet they stay, which is really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

We hate ourselves. I hate myself for loving it so much.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

And there's, you know, this gentleman, I think his name is David, who runs the tea house downtown. I went in there one day and he told me about this curse uh way back in the day when you know the battle for Santa Cruz, you know, was was happening. And the chief, who I think I remember him saying was a woman, right when those that came here to take this land um got to that place of they had to take control. Just as the Spaniards or yeah, Spaniards. Um she had

Identity, Place, And Feeling Chosen

SPEAKER_00 18:10

put a curse. This is you know the the tale. She had put a curse on anyone that comes to Santa Cruz that they wouldn't be able to leave Santa Cruz. And so I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. Blow it off. Yeah, I blew it off. And then I just started observing. And in my observation, I'm like, there are dozens of people that I know now that have left Santa Cruz and then they come back. And I don't know if it's just my bias now because I'm in this observation, but is that in San Diego? I can't remember how many people when I lived in San Diego for 30 years had left and come back. I know a lot of people there.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

And that was really interesting to me. And so then I started to think about like this curse and like what's actually going on here spiritually. And it feels like a very strong spiritual, energetic presence is here. So, you know, when I think about Santa Cruz now, I feel like that is something that I hadn't looked at before, and I really hadn't looked at that in any other land, but now it's very much in my face in terms of the energetic frequency of the land, because I believe when we travel to any land, there's a frequency of that land. Yeah. Right. And then when the frequency of our consciousness interacts with the frequency of that land, it brings out aspects of ourselves that we wouldn't otherwise have experienced if we didn't go to that land. Santa Cruz has a very unique frequency.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

That's one way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

You know, so I'm like, yeah, now I'm very curious what the fuck is it? Yeah. And then what does it do to the people who come here? And when you come here, of course, your intention for coming here matters. And I don't think that most people consciously are aware of what their intentions are. And if you're not, in some ways you're kind of fucked.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Is what I'm observing out of this. Yeah. And then the more you become intentional about how you want to relate to the land, the more you have agency in terms of how you navigate that land. And that's what I'm really curious about Santa Cruz. And then, you know, surf culture and Silicon Valley and then how all these, you know, different environments kind of converge in this place called Santa Cruz. And then what does it do to people? And what is it doing to me ultimately?

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Yeah. Yeah. So let's breeze into surf culture a little bit. Because, you know, when when when we spoke originally when we had our coffee moment, you know, one of the things that I was expressing to you is that Santa Cruz is surf culture. It just is. And you know, I I can give facts out like Santa Cruz and any area where there's a point break, you know, where the waves break in a precise measure. Because of the nature of surfing, uh there had to be an established pecking order. Not just for the waves, but for the danger. Right? So it took a particular kind of person to climb down the cliff first. It took a particular person to paddle from cowls to steamer lane for the first time. No leashes, no wetsuits, a board that doesn't work. And you had to mine the game because your responsibility was not just to yourself but to that other person. So there's an aggressive nature built into anywhere that has a point break or has has a spot, you know, North Shore's not that different, you know, in Hawaii from this surf culture where it's actually a culture of safety. It's just very angry when you're not being safe. You know, because what it means for the person is that not only do they have to take care of themselves, but they have to take care of that other person. And so there's beginning to be plenty of sociology starting to get worked into that, you know, because lifeguarding also comes from that. You know, that they're sorting these things out. But the way that I express it often on this podcast is that I don't care what it is, mountain biking, pickleball, you know, you could be in a book club and you're gonna run into surf culture. There may not be any surfers, but this attitude, you know, that is present in Santa Cruz. Hey, I've worked my way in. You gotta work your way in too, bro. That's how the game works. You know, just is is part of this wall, you know, and and the people who say they're mellow, they're the worst. You know, they're so delusional that they're actually mellow. It's like, no, you moved here because you're actually very competitive and you feel like you fit. And you're just trying to push that that thing in you down a little bit. And again, we're the bedroom community to probably the most important spot in the world right now. And this relationship that we've had with it, you know, thinking that somehow the mountains guard us from that. No. The veil's gone. You know, that's moving here like it is, whether it's how the traffic is now, everything is just way more aggressive here than it's ever been because it thinks it's so mellow. That there's the paradox. Oh, I'm moving here because I'm mellow. No, you're moving here to get mellow. You're not mellow. You're trying to find a place where it's safe to be mellow and you think it's this place, and you're being the dick now because you don't know how it works. We're all trying to be mellow, you know, because we're not. You know, that I to me, you know, in very general terms, that's kind of how it's like, yeah, well, you kind of have to, oh, I don't like surfers. And like, oh, you you are one whether you surf or not. You know, you're in it. Like, this is the thing. And make no mistake, the most important Wetsu company is here, the most important skateboard company is here. Period. Like apex predators here, you know, of that thing. And you can choose to identify with it or not. I mean, that's what I'm saturated in. That's what I grew up in. I don't know it to be another way. I'm walking my way out of it, but it doesn't change who I am. You know, I need to change. But that fingerprint, I don't get to take it off, you know. So this thing, you know, and that I went on my little three-minute, five-minute diatribe about it. You know, this thing, surf culture is, you know, and the aggressive nature of surfing, even though it's perceived as a mellow sport, there's the paradox, right? Yeah, no, no, it's not mellow. Nope. Yeah. I mean, it can be fun, but like how it's fun is gonna be different for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah. And that's what flipped my lid, you know, from the conversation that we had. I don't even know, was it a month ago? Yeah. Now a couple months, yeah. You opened my eyes to the surf culture here and just surf culture in general and what it meant to be a surfer, right? And then I had this conversation with Shane, founder of Mudwater, this past weekend, and he opened my eyes to another uh dimension of surfing, which is the scarcity that exists in the water, you know, and he was like, Yeah, you go to, you know, you go to surf, you spend two hours to get a couple waves, and each wave, you're writing it for seconds. So then, you know, you spend two hours to get what, a minute worth of writing? Just imagine, you know, the level of scarcity that exists there, and why then people want to be protective, want to be aggressive, or think they have to be aggressive and think they have to be protective, and then how that translates on to land in terms of their relationships and their businesses and their health and their their well-being. And it flipped my lid because I'm like, I was born in the Philippines, raised on Oahu, raised in in San Diego, so always near the ocean. And my paradigm, how I oriented to the water is that it's very peaceful there, but I wasn't surfing. I mean, I would boogie board on the shore. Yeah, I was too scared because thank you, thanks to Jaws, to get out in the water. You and my wife like, no, I'm you know, leave it to the surfers just to do their thing out there, right? So I stayed on the shore and it was very peaceful there. I would just get in the water and wait and hang out, go on the beach. So it was peaceful to me. It still is, but now to have this perspective of surfing, I'm like, holy shit, that's yeah, very fascinating to look at it from that perspective and then realize like, oh yeah, our environment entrains us because surf culture and surfers they get entrained into this way of being, and now I realize like why you know there are surfers who are fucking straight gangsters, you know, and they feel like they have to be because the level of scarcity and how many waves you actually get, and as you're sharing with us, you know, it's also a matter of safety. And so now to take that awareness of like, oh, that's what's happening here, or that's how people have been trained to and conditioned to be because of the environment that they're in. And a lot of the times we're not aware of how our environment and the people around us are in training us into being people who that's not who we are, it's not our true nature. We had just been conditioned to be this way, and so it's very important to go inside oneself and ask oneself, well, who the hell am I? Yeah, yeah. And in the day of age that we live in, it's very hard to do that because everything's so fucking expensive. So you have to work 15 jobs just to make a living. And so when you're working, to go get you two minutes away. And so, how much time do you really have to sit and do the reflection and the introspection and to deeply understand oneself and be able to separate your conditioning, how you behave, how you act, how you think

The Wall Called Santa Cruz

SPEAKER_00 29:30

from your true nature. And I feel like that's so important, especially in this time that we're living in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

So um let's take that scarcity concept because this is what I'm watching. Okay, so a lot of the friction that I feel is happening here lives in this mindset, right? To say Santa Cruz is to say scarcity. There's only so many people that are gonna live here. You know, Santa Cruz set itself a long time ago with Gary Patton to being zero growth. And so that means something. You know, uh the the influence of sixty thousand people moving here because of a university that are transient, right? Very few will stay in a small community in a scarce community, you know, has had an influence, and I and I don't want to go on a long one about the university per se, because you know, it doesn't matter, except that it added to that scarcity. You know, they refused to put enough buildings up for their uh people that they were inviting here and put that pressure downward on the town. So Santa Cruz in a scarce spot that wanted to remain scarce added these outside pressures and my interview previous to this, uh Braden made a really good point. You know, because I'm now back in this thing, you know, because I moved from Capitola down to South County of encountering the traffic. You know, when I've been centrally located five to seven minutes everywhere where I wanted to be. I'm so lazy, I could walk most places, but I didn't, you know, it was that convenient for me. The traffic's happening all around me, but now I'm in it. Now I'm actually living in a really, really peaceful zone, and I have this dread now every time I come into this town that felt like home that's only seven miles from where I lived before, and it's like, oh man, these people are like it's it's all the same thing. You know, back to your notion of time, which is also scarce. You know, what he brought up is like I can't just go see my friend anymore because I live on high street and it takes me 15 minutes to go a half a mile. You know, and then once I'm 40 minutes into a drive three miles away because I can't walk, you know, all the dreams of trains, which have just been nonsense to me. You know, uh you know, nobody's gonna let their land up. You know, again, we don't have land for what all these ideas bring. So transportation's a nightmare. You take something as simple as the rail to trail thing, and like here we are 20 years later, tens of millions of dollars later. Okay, finally everybody found out it was corrupt in some way. And so now they're finally going to build a trail. Well, you know, I could actually ride my e-bike on that trail from my house in 20 minutes to work. Now I have to get in my car at peak, and it's 40 minutes. You know, it's like the scarcity prospect that is just a part of being from here, it sits right on the surface the whole time and it just keeps growing and growing. And you know, although I didn't imagine it would be in this part of the conversation, you know, coming in the front end. With with the conversations you're having, the conversation we've had, you know, my eyes were just open to that last week. That this scarcity mindset is creating silos, also. Like I can't just go see my friends anymore. The town that we grew up in is was I wonder where there's waves. And we just went. You know, we drove up north, we drove down to Carmel. That's a day. That's that's not it's not something you didn't do, and now you have to plan getting to the lane. I'm trying to avoid the lane, let alone you know, and but but I'm using surfing as a metaphor to why we feel so siloed, it's because we are. You know, and what was a community has been taken from slowly and it happened so slowly, we didn't recognize it, but we all are in our silos. I have to think before I go see my friend. I just want to see my friend. You know, and and again, you're from a more urban zone, and you know, even though I don't really think of San Diego as being urban, it is spread out, but you know, you got Incinitas and Lucadia and all that stuff's all interconnected. You know, there's ways to kind of, but but it's always been an intrinsic part of how you think. So there's a flow to it. That flow has been radically disrupted, especially since COVID. You know, like when when it wasn't the homeless people parking in your front yard, it was now the $200,000 uh van, you know, from dude who just decided from Menlo, I'm just gonna stay in Santa Cruz. You know, you're like, wow, that's a real problem because the cops are not gonna move you on. You know, so there's a different r set of rules, and and and so this confluence of money, you know, that has affected us. We have commerce that's finally working, so that's good because it didn't work because of that other thing. It was so combative and so competitive, because there was always scarcity here. There wasn't enough people here to really make it. Like all these things are all happening at once. And so it's kind of from that part that I really want to hear more about what you're trying to do. And and I think we've done a pretty good job of describing look, things have really changed here. What to do next is hard. And you have decided to be a bull in a china shop, and I love it, you know, in a way. You know, that's why I reached out to you. It's like, oh, you're tipping those tables. That, that, that's that's gonna like this guy's gonna need friends after this, no matter what, whether it works out or not. You know, at least to know, hey, I, you know, I see you, Jay. Like this, this, you, you, you, you touched it. You keep touching it. Uh-oh, he keeps touching it. Like, like, oh, now you're touching that. Oh, now you said that. Oh, yeah, that's true, but oh, we don't say that shit out loud. That's all. Yeah. Like we're we have we are just used to it, and clearly you don't know what you're saying. Not in a not in a not in a like talking down to you thing. Yeah. Like you the consequences of that are vast, and we've all tried. That that that's kind of where it comes from for me at least. Of like, you're you're you're saying the shit, but like, mmm, you said the shit, so you're gonna get you're gonna get the stick here and there. Cause because like, and it's from people who have tried to change it. And that's but but we're just we're hurt. Yeah, I don't know how else to put it. It hurts. It hurts that I can't go see my friend. Yeah. And why is that? That's because of all the things. Is there any one person? No, I would never lay the blame on the valley, the university, people who, oh, this is a great place. Is it? You know, it's a tough place.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

It is a tough place, and it's also, I mean, you know, it's interesting what you're sharing with me right now because I hear from other people that I'm touching the thing, but very rarely do I have the conversations with people like we are having right now face to face about what I'm touching.

unknown 37:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

The majority of conversations that I have face to face, when people come up to me, you know, off of the street, which is every time I go out now, it's always been positive. There's not been one negative experience that I've had on the street. It's always online, not even in my DMs, usually, you know, a comment on one of my videos, someone taking a shot. And even those that are taking those shots, they're not like really heavy shots. No, no, they're not heavy shots. They're just kind of little chirps. Exactly. And so for the most part, it's felt incredibly um positive, and I feel so supported in the journey that I've been on right now. So I'm really curious about you know, the people that you are mentioning, and I'd love to sit down and have a conversation with them and to really understand the pain because this is something that in my own personal growth, I'm leaning into my own pain. And so part of what I'm doing in this process, as you are doing with your podcast, and working my shit.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

I'm working my shit up.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

You know, publicly. I'm just working my shit up publicly. So it's not I'm not intentionally trying to be that bull, even though I mean my my astrological sign, I'm with Taurus. Right? So in my nature, you're not trying to be the bull, I am the bull. I am the bull. And you know, I've I've gone through a lot in my life. There's a lot of wound wounding, you know, there that I'm working through. And so essentially what I'm doing publicly in Santa Cruz in relationship to the cultural work here is what I do behind closed doors with myself. Yeah. Which is, you know, in order for me to actually access the potential that I feel, you know, and at this age of my life, I feel like I'm still just scratching the surface. Of what my capacity is. And so I'm not

Locals’ Pain And Online Noise

SPEAKER_00 40:05

intentionally trying to push the buttons out there. It's just me doing what I do to myself because I know for the majority of my life, I've avoided all the things that I actually have needed to face in order to free myself of all of the conditioning and the patterns of behavior that have created so much fucking pain and conflict in my life. And they still do to a certain degree, but because I've done a certain amount of work now, I don't have so much of those conflicts to the level that I used to and the suffering that I used to. And so what I've learned over the last, let's say, five or six years is that if you do want to free yourself, it isn't by adding more things and adding more meditation and yoga and all this shit, right? It's helpful.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

No doubt. Helpful.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Have your methods.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

But the the true way to free yourself is to let go of the things that aren't who you have been conditioned to be. And we're all working through that. We all have been conditioned to be a certain way because of this capitalistic system that we live in, amongst other things. And so that's how I operate behind closed doors is I look at, well, what are the things that I'm doing, the ways of thinking and behaving that go against my true nature and who I am. And I bring those to the surface, and it's really fucking painful to do that, to take responsibility for all of the ways in which I cause pain to myself and cause pain to the people around me. And so this work in Santa Cruz in terms of culture is me doing that. I'm just, what are the things that we actually need to look at and need to face? And as you're saying, it's not new. All of these things that I'm speaking into, what I believe I can bring that is new is the perspective at which we go through the process of letting these things go so that they're actually let go of. Because from what I know now, in what I've heard and what I've observed and studied, these things, these things that we're talking about now have been here ever since Santa Cruz has been around. Got cursed. So it's like I hadn't heard that story.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

I believe it.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

I I it's and they're that you know, bringing that dimension into this conversation, right? Like the energetics of the land, this the spiritual uh consequences to things that have happened way back when that have not been addressed. Yeah. Yeah. Like these things probably need to be addressed. Not probably, they absolutely need to be addressed. So how do you go about doing that? Like these are really heavy things.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Yeah, I I mean you're you're speaking to a form you know that I live in. You know, we need a collective repentance. And, you know, we're so attached to like a New Testament concept of that where it's like turned the other direction. Well, that's the fruit of repentance. Repentance itself is acknowledging things for what they are first, and then taking that deep breath in of like, oh, I didn't know it was that. And then you realize you need compassion on yourself because you were so ignorant to what you were struggling with. Yeah. You thought it was smaller, you thought you had control over it. It's like, ooh, I don't. Oh man, you know, I need some help here. And then that compassion you give to yourself is then what you give out. See, that's foundationally what repentance is. It's so not about you're doing it wrong. It's then like, oh, now I know how to do it right. I need to flee from this, move towards that, you know, which which is, you know, for all you Christians, that's what Jesus was saying. You have to do the front end thing first.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

But anyways, and it's even harder in California to do this work because we're trained to like hide things and to wear a mask and to have a certain image out in the world because we believe that if we are perceived a certain way, then we'll get our needs met because then we can reach a certain level of status if we have enough followers, if we drive a certain type of car, if we have a certain amount of money, right? So then people who come to California are just entrained into that way of doing life, which then makes it that much harder to go inward and look at the things because you have all these things on the surface that you have trained just.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Yeah, you're othering everything that's coming to you.

unknown 45:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Let's sit here for a minute. To the point of othering, that's what comes naturally. That's what culture has to offer, right? Just be this thing for us and you'll be okay. You know, on this other end, again, which is why we're having the conversation, I want to talk about influence a little bit. And our text exchange, you know, which is like, I saw it pop. I'm like, oh man. You know, this guy know not what he does, you know, not not in uh you've blown it, just like a woo, you know, that that's a big one, you know, and the subsequent, you know, posting since then. Uh, you know, what to do with influence is a conundrum. You know, I I get to approach this open-eyed because I'm a person of influence here. I've already been through the thing, you know, in a way to understand some of my limitations. So I I I come very open-hearted, open-minded to what any of this could mean. You know, so I, you know, I I've spent this whole year, you know, starting, stopping, you know, diving in, pulling back, depending on how much I look at my phone, you know, what am I following in these moments, you know, what, you know, realizing that the phone is just a data piece that, you know, I don't know who my listeners are. You know, it's like, well, what do I care what they think or what whether they're there? That's like it's not real, it's just a one and a zero in code, showing me that somehow I'm having influence. No, I'm not. I have influence right now with you. Like that's it. You know, being being present, you know, but this deep need inside of all of us to matter, right? To affect change in the best ways we can, you know. At least for me, I I thought I grew up in a town, you know, where we could learn by making mistakes and learn from those mistakes together. You know, there's a lot of shifts. You know, it was that way, and now it, you know, it's increasingly not that way. And I don't want to other that, you know, that certainly has to do with us, but it like this is happening globally, so it's not like unique to Santa Cruz. You know, what does having social media influence even mean? You're in it. One of the things I articulated to you is that you're not responsible. You know, that that that 160,000 people that you captured a moment doesn't mean you're responsible for those 160,000 people, but there's something inside of you that feels a responsibility, not just to yourself, but to the community. And again, in my perception of this, this is what I think I'm seeing. It's like Jay's trying to find out where he's responsible so he can go and experience the profoundness of being for his own life, but it's not just for you, you know, it's actually for others and just that heart for others. And you know, I've had more than one friend who's like, you know, we we do the same thing with you. We're like, we'll see how this goes. But isn't it good to have a fresh perspective coming in

Third Places And Community Models

SPEAKER_02 48:30

and saying the stuff? Absolutely. Because he doesn't have he doesn't know, so he's saying the things, and we need that right now. You know, like like there's this felt need that we all have in the county. And I don't want to say that I represent all people here, you know, in in in Santa Cruz who have grown up here, but I do represent a norm of what we're thinking when you're talking. And, you know, in a way, I don't know that this is a question, it's kind of a statement before the question emerges. You have a lot of influence right now. And the people that I'm seeing showing up in your life are newer to that experience, like you are. They've experienced success here where others had tried to. I don't want to diminish the feelings of pain and and some jealousy that might be because there's been a lot of good ideas that just haven't worked, and actually it's the right idea and now it works, and someone else did it. You know, the the pain of of having lived through it and having it not work. I mean, that's really real whenever you're gonna encounter a local, and we're not gonna talk about it. I mean, it's very few of us that are gonna sit in front of you and go, like, yeah, good for Jared. What about my buddy's coffee shop? Who who I'm not I'm not not nothing bad about any of it. You know, it just is like I know people with just as much heart who put their heart and soul into it, bankrupted them, and now they'll never recover. You know, and we can blame the market, blame business, all that kind of stuff, but you know, in as much success that lives here, it, you know, it's it's so it's such an easy town. Like, oh, look at all the success. Well, there's a trail of bodies behind it though, too. Uh maybe people who had better ideas who didn't get that same thing because it is so small. You know, because it is not a big market, you know, and I'm trying to keep it in business as much as I can, because it seems to be the safest space to talk about these things that are very spiritual to your point of the pain. And you know, you you're bringing a social value that that I think most of us have in common, we just don't know how to interpret it. You know, because you know, you have a mind like mine, which only looks through the lens of economics first. Not because I want to dismiss people, but that's where the story is. You know, we we speak capitalism to each other and we know not what we speak. You know, we're all thinking that we're talking about something else, but it's like I can pretty much reduce most conversations with most people to money. Not because that's the intent of it, it's just what we speak to each other now. You know, because this country is just mostly about money. Yeah. And it's it's not unique to Santa Cruz. So like the we don't we don't get to we don't get to wear that emblem. It just is how we're talking to each other now, and we don't know it. You know, like we built a tower of babel in some way. You know, we we think we know what we're saying to each other. It's like, uh and so that's been my safe space, you know, for me to really understand as much about economics to know what I'm talking to. You know, is this person real? You know, are they being genuine? Do they know the implications financially to what you're saying? And it's not because I'm money focused. If you saw my bank account, you'd be surprised. Not because there's a lot of zeros. You know, it's because the other thing, like, how did you make it? I don't know. God, I guess, I don't know. I just the horrible grit that I learned by growing up here, some combo, you know, which is how most of us who are from here feel. You know, who like it wasn't lucky when we bought our house, but we're damn lucky we bought our house when we did. It was hard. It sucked the way it sucks now, just less denominators. You know, the problem's different now, again, because of money and the influence and how just money operates so far beyond humanity. Like money doesn't need humans anymore. That's weird. You know, it's it's expanding so fast. And so in that very spiritual space, you know, because money is the idea of surplus, right? Not scarcity. You know, it's it's the the the complexity of the conversation about capitalism is so complex because it can be good. Actually, it can be great. But you know, once you start introducing greed, you know, it becomes the root of all kinds of evil. You know, that that there's the message in there. But the idea of surplus, the way that we could do it, the very human version, you know, the Roman version of expanding empire and these sorts of things, all bad words. Are they? You know, it's like, yeah, they are here, there, all that kind of thing. But overall, money has resolved some really, really big issues the last 50 years. But, you know, this is a place I think we'll really agree. We need to do it different. It it's not it's not working here the way it used to. But see, these are real pains, and not everybody can articulate it the way that I am, how spiritual it is. Like the pain is so deeply wounding because money, you know, it you're not given the windows. And then as it relates to you, this influence that you're garnering, you know, with people that have come to success financially, right, in the region, which is good. And uh and as a community, I think we've done a good job celebrating that, you know, as locals. Like this is a good thing. Nobody looks at Cat and Cloud and goes, I hate that place. You know, not not not for that reason. You you know, it's they may just not like to be around everybody, you know. You know, but but I think I make it my point. Like everybody wants to sit at a good restaurant, like like, yeah, we we we we we like the comfort of those things, but it's no longer safe to walk downtown at dark. You know, the this common reality that we have. And not that it was ever like safe, safe, but like it was different. You know, when the when it was a bunch of Vietnam vets that were homeless that were choosing it as a lifestyle, yeah, they had the mental illness issues also, but it's different now, and each thing is so itemized. When you think about the influence you want to have on this community, you know, what is it that you mean, you know, when when you're sorting your shit out in front of everybody as I'm sorting my shit out in front of everybody? I don't, I I, you know, I get the convenience of not having influence. Right? My fear about this conversation is having more. Like it scares me a little bit. I don't know if I'm in that clear spot yet. You know, I I I know who I'm safe with, I know who's opening up to me and who isn't. And they open up to me because they know there'll be more conversation. You see, they know I'm gonna be there later. You know, that that yeah, but that's my experience though, being a pastor and those sorts of things, you know, it's like they know I'll be here tomorrow. You know, and so when we live in this world where, you know, all of a sudden 160,000 people, the weight of that, you know, what is it that you're hoping to do with that?

SPEAKER_00 56:31

That's a good question. Um what feels like we really all want at the end of the day is to matter and to feel loved. And I'm no different than everyone else. I want to feel like I matter, and for most of my life I've not felt like that. And I also want to feel loved. And for most of my life I have not felt that. And so what I've what I've uncovered through my personal work is that a lot of the things that I had been doing that ultimately were detrimental to me um and caused me pain and pain um to the people around me was because I was operating from a place of trying to get that love in a very egotistical way, in a very manipulative way. And so to answer the question, what I'd like to do with that influence is figure out a different way for us to actually achieve the thing that I think we all want. How do we actually feel that love internally? How do we feel at peace and at ease internally? Because the majority of us don't feel that, and it feels harder every single day to feel at peace and to feel loved. And through this process, as I said,

Surf Culture As Safety And Scarcity

SPEAKER_00 58:20

you know, as you are doing with this podcast, it is an opportunity to work through our shit publicly. And what I would love to do is to find that place of ease, to find that place of feeling love for myself without having to do it in a manipulative um egotistical way. Which is really difficult because it is very rare to find an individual in the world who operates like that. And once that individual starts to gain some level of influence and power, it's almost inevitable that they get pulled into doing and being in a way that is actually not loving. And so I'm very cognizant of that in my experience right now, as I gain this influence. You know, with great power comes great responsibility, and I'm so incredibly grateful to my lovely partner, Nora, for constantly checking me and constantly checking my intentions and what I'm doing. And she does not hesitate to call me out. And she knows me so well and can feel me energetically when I am operating out of alignment, it's almost like she is me. Living in me and knows. And so she'll give me the feedback that I need to hear. And that allows me to reorient and to understand and to dig at well, what are the things that are in me in terms of my own pattern and conditioning that cause me to operate out of alignment and to wear a mask and to chase status and to chase validation and to chase these things that are me just wanting to be loved ultimately at the end of the day, but trying to do it in the way that I was taught through society, which does not fucking work. And so I want to use this influence to give access to information that I think that I know I had not had for myself, and then I had to go through a journey of the same pain that these people that you're talking about had to experience in their own lives because that pain is really a catalyst for our growth. And by understanding that, the important thing that I have recognized is when we are in pain, we usually closed our heart close our hearts. It's the first thing we do. It's the first thing that we do because that's what we were taught by our parents and taught by people before us is like you put your fucking guard up.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:27

Yeah, and be careful with your love all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

Put your guard up, right? And so I did that. I put my guard up and I operate in that way, and it did not work. It never has worked, and it will never work because that's not how it works. And so with that understanding, it makes it a lot easier for me to navigate those waters of people who are taking shots at me because I know at the end of the day, what they're doing is they're projecting that pain onto me. And they really don't want to. It's just hard not to do that when that's what you've been conditioned to do with your pain.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

You know, there's there's the common reality.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

And in that, I've and and through what you've shared and what others have shared with me, it allows me to have a great deal of empathy for these individuals. And it gives me the opportunity to see more of the aspects of myself that I still need to clean and clear when they take those shots and I feel myself get triggered, but I'm at a place now where I don't react right off of the bat. I can see, oh yeah, I can feel myself getting angry right now. I can see my ego got a little hurt by that comment that they said. And I can separate the trigger and what I'm experiencing in my frustration and my anger from me. And in that process, I can take the time to just learn like what does this mean about me at the end of the day, and hold that compassion and respond in the most loving way that I can. That's what I'm doing in this process of working through my my shit publicly with people.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

I'd like to add a little to that because I have a personal experience with this with you. Okay. And and you know, it's not deep. It just is like something happened to a piece of your equipment. All of a sudden we're not doing the podcast the next day. You know, I'm like, oh shit, is he gonna silo? Is he one of those guys? You know, not not you're one of those guys. Just like, you know, I I recognize the process you're going through mostly because I'm going through it. It's not like some uh very foreign thing to do. How do I reintegrate? How do how do I, you know, I've done this work, but it doesn't count until you can do it, you know, with people around you. And that reintegration process is tough. You know, you get you know, and and we're checking ourselves for different reasons, you know, but but it's like that's what I've been doing. Oh, check myself, open up podcasting for two months, you know. Oh, but I want to talk. You know, no, you're it's just your ego, just trying to sort it through with everybody else, sort it through alone. Figure that shit out alone. Why do you want to go podcast right now? What is that? Why? All the whys, not not the what's whys. Um, so you know, again, uh, you know, I'm getting a real cool bird's eye view of like, oh yeah, it sucks. You know, actually, I need a little time to get clear because this hurt me, and I'm not sure why it hurt me, and I'm not sure how it hurt me. I just know it hurts because I thought that this is gonna work this way, and it's not going to work this way. You know, and and uh so you know that there's this thing happening to you, and and I want to dig in a little harder here and and challenge the moment, not challenge you, just the moment. Because, you know, again on the outside, you know, because I haven't been in any any of the meetings, I haven't done any of the things, I don't get to have an opinion about any of that, so it's not from that spot as though I'm there. But it feels like on the outside you uh that you're trying to create a third place to a third place, like it's good. You know, how how do the people who have third places feel? Like, how do we collaborate, not cooperate? You know, we're we're a very cooperative group, you know, and and and I I'm not sure how my comment back was or or how that comment landed when I said, you do realize we're all libertarian. You know, it's like, yeah, you have mine, I have I have mine, and don't fucking touch my shit. You know, like the you can call yourself whatever you want, but it's a very libertarian space and we don't know it, so it makes us dangerous. Makes us really dangerous because we think we're politically aligned. It's like, no, you're a real individual thing, you know, and that's why you moved here. It's because you feel safe here to just be yourself, and as long as nobody's you know, up my ass about something, everything's okay. And again, it's one of the paradoxes because we think we're something that we're not. You know, we have ultra-conservative, ultra-liberal. I don't believe any of them. You know, we're just from Santa Cruz. That's whatever, bro. Okay. You don't like to support food stamps. Don't care. You know, and oftentimes they're the most generous people I know. It's like you don't you don't want to give the government, you want to give it away, and you do, like that's Santa Cruz. It's so weird. You know, and and and the privilege of me, me being privileged enough to live around that paradox is not something I get to impose on other people. It's like I see it all the time. The people you think are the worst because I hate this, I love Trump. You're just like, oh, you're a horrible person. Like, no, it ends up you look secretly, they're they're giving half their shit away, and you just don't know it, and they just don't like to talk about it. You know, it it's the people here are paradoxed to themselves. They say they think things and they do another, and it's not bad. You see, that it's not a bad thing, it's just it's their thing. And and we all get to do our thing here. But this concept of a third place for the third place people, you know, which which is kind of what I would hope the conversation would move to. And this is this is what we're all realizing about you, those of us who are talking behind your back. Because we all are, and it's not bad. It's just like, huh. What's happening here? What's happening here? Um if I didn't know you any better, I think you're a cult leader. Because I know a bunch of cult leaders, because you know, I might have been in that space. And, you know, even the way I'm doing this, for forgive the clunkiness and the old language,

Scarcity Bleeding Into Daily Life

SPEAKER_02 1:08:35

you know, it's like, look, I never had big churches. It's pretty clear I'm doing church here. Don't the you know, I'm just playing pastor having coffee on this podcast, and some people open up, some people don't, whatever. It's cool. People are cool. I like to get to know people. And the old pastor learned not to despise small beginnings, you know, because that's the position I had to put my heart in. Big things are scary because there's a lot to organize and there's a lot of mistakes when it gets big fast. That thing, you know, I I know what I'm doing. You know, I I told you my formula, it's pretty simple, people. Five new followers on Instagram, five new listeners, grassroots. You know, I I really if I get there, great. If I don't, guess what? I'm tracking on my metrics. Like that's all. You know, that that's the thing that gets me up in the morning, that's the thing I'm I'm targeting. If there's a tipping point, great. Who cares? You know, the thing is happening the way I know how to do it, which is just kind of straight one-to-one. Uh so maybe with that kind of superimposed value, not that you would say it that way, you know, what are you uh pastoring people to do? You know, what what are you shepherding? Like, like what's your in like me, I know it's not clearly defined, but the space that you're hoping to hold, and I think you've expressed it a little bit, you know, that uh you believe there's a place where we can be, you know, with all of these things. Yeah, you know, w what in the early moments here do you feel like is is a direction that you're moving towards? Because you're doing it, like I'm watching you. And you're harnessing a lot right now, but it hasn't gotten to the chaos moment, right? Like where the thing that some of it you're harnessing is like, well, there might be not that there's no one person I'm thinking of. It's just the realities of like, yeah, you got that there, but how does commerce conflict with your, you know, your personal values, like like these kinds of things, like because there are some real realities of like everybody here, if they've been paying attention the last few years, knows that what appears to be the liberal position of like the city of Santa Cruz, let's just keep it clean, has caused so much friction for the people that were sustaining the help through commerce for the people that are now shitting on their front steps. You know, these realities of what an idea ends up turning into here in Santa Cruz because of a real lack of leadership of what actually happens here. You know, because I I get it, it's ideal, but good ideas come to Santa Cruz to die. We are famous for them. And we've come up with some of the best ideas, which is kind of like, wow, it must be a great spot to come up with an idea, only if you want it to die. You know, you know, because it's it's a it's a meat grinder. It's Putin's meat grinder here. Oh, you better be real, because like uh we're sending forces in, you know, it's it is its own thing. And to make it here, I think the only harder place is New York.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh it's got something about it. And so, you know, there's a tension that I'm watching you wrestle with, and it's in that space, it's like, am I sure that this song is gonna be a hit? Because if it doesn't hit here, nothing's gonna hit, right, right, but like the weight of having to have the audience is the weight you wanted, but here we go. You know, is this a hit? You know, and and so I think at least in this conversation, I think you just kind of expressing like here's what I'm shooting for. I don't know what it looks like. What do you what are you aiming at?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:12

Okay, so there's a couple dimensions to that. Um the most important thing for me right now on the on the personal level, like my own personal agenda in this, is to be free of that pressure that I constantly feel to achieve something and to do something that actually matters in the world. And I feel like this is such a great opportunity for me to work through that because the culture that we live in here in Santa Cruz matters to everyone. And so that work that I'm doing, my ego wants to achieve the thing because it believes that if I just achieve the thing, then I will get the love, I will get the validation, I will get the approval because it matters so much to people in this town. And I'm very watchful of that because I've done that so many times in my life, I've achieved the thing, but then after I achieve the thing, I still feel completely empty. I still feel angry, I still feel not at ease. And so because I've gone through that multiple times and all those the the failures and the pain that is created in in my life, I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna do that thing. It's still very compelling to me in this process right now, but I'm not allowing myself to get sucked back into that way of doing it. So what I'm shooting for is to free myself from those things that created that pain, and so that I can be who I actually am, regardless of whether the thing is achieved or not. To be able to completely let that go and just enjoy the journey, enjoy the experience, and keep my heart open no matter what. Number one, that's what I'm going for because I believe my life will feel meaningful and fulfilling if I can just go through the experience and not need anything from it and just enjoy the fucking experience for what it is. Um I just want to enjoy the experience of the short ass life that I've been given. So that's number one, and this particular work that I'm doing in Santa Cruz gives me that. So then what is tied to that in terms of the goal is I use sports as a metaphor for this. Please, right? Because speaking my language, I'm in the baseball season.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:13

Just started yesterday. I'm an athlete. I'm about to pick on a bunch of 13 and 14-year-olds for six months. Fun. You're gonna have fun, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:20

Um, I'm an athlete. That's you know, my my background, I've played sports all my life, right? And so in my lifetime, I've had this experience which has been rare, which is being in a locker room with a bunch of guys or on the field or on the court with a bunch of guys who you look across the locker room and you know that everyone has your back, that they care about your well-being, that you could trust them, and that when shit gets really hard everyone comes together. And those teams, when that was the felt experience relationally, were the teams where we won the championships. And then it didn't even become about the championship anymore. It was just a vehicle for us to have that experience of a certain level of togetherness that is so unfortunately rare of an experience in a human being's life, and I've had the gift of being able to experience it with several teams, and I want that again. And it's I don't play on any teams, you know, that I have the opportunity to experience through a season the coming together. So then I'm like, well, where do I do that now? And this is what I'm applying to this experience of being a citizen in this talent of Santa Cruz is like I'm an athlete, I get to play quarterback again, and I want to win a fucking championship. Okay, well, what does a championship look like in Santa Cruz? Yeah, it looks like having the fucking pride, you know, that I'm from Santa Cruz. It's dope that I get to be here. And when I look at people in the downtown area or Pleasure Point or wherever the fuck I am in Santa Cruz, I can look around.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:35

Southside, baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:38

I'm a tranny now. And I know that that person has my back. Yeah, I can trust them, right? They care about me and they could feel how much I care about them, and we're going after this vision for Santa Cruz to be what we all want it to be together. And then we utilize our gifts and our talents and our abilities, like our whatever our God-given gift is, we're not using it for our own personal gain. We're using it because we got a fucking championship to win. And I need to refine myself to a certain level to be able to give that gift so that we can win, not me win. And I will win personally when we win that championship. Yeah, right. Like that is the best for me, one of the best fucking feelings in the world. So, really, I'm just working that out through this experience. It's like, I know how to do that. I've played quarterback on championship teams, and I know what it takes to build a team to that level and ability. So I'm applying that knowledge in this experience that I'm going through right now.

Influence, Responsibility, Intent

SPEAKER_00 1:19:55

And that's when you ask the question, what am I going for? That's what the fuck I'm. I'm going for. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:02

I'm going to try and frame this up a little bit so you understand a little bit more about me and a little bit more about us, the collective that's Santa Cruz. And let's let's see if this lands. You watch Ted Lasso? No. Ted Lasso is a football coach who moves to England and becomes a soccer coach. And it's a ruse, right? There's this owner that's trying to implode the team so they got the worst coach they could find and stuck him there. Okay. And ZP started winning, right? So that that's the whole premise. You know, because he's just a good guy. He doesn't know shit. He's just a good guy. And you know, I I stopped coaching baseball a decade ago. A friend of mine just talked me back on the field. I'm like, I, you know, I'm not good for this. Like, you don't know what kind of baseball coach. I actually have expectations of children. If they don't meet them, that's a problem, especially if you've wasted my time and you decided not to show up. You know, I I was that coach and it was good for my kids, but like didn't feel good for it anymore. But you know, suck suckers me back in. And we have Ted Lasso the last two seasons. Like our team suck, and we just beat you. You know, so I'm hearing you. You know, that that the win wasn't important, but man, the win tastes good though, too. It's like, oh, you can actually do this kind.

unknown 1:21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:33

You can just be a good guy, and our manager is just the best guy. He didn't know shit about baseball, but he knows how to create a culture.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:40

I come here knowing baseball. I can teach pitchers how to pitch, and I got the highest compliment I've ever gotten. It just happened yesterday. I'm glowing from it. You know, leave the high school unnamed. I got a high school kid. I'm taking care of the pitchers at tryouts for unnamed league, all that kind of stuff, right? And the pitching-catching portion wasn't organized. I'm like, bam, just step in, do do what I do anyway, run the drill so everybody sees what they need to see. I'm a pitching coach, so I know I know how to do it quick. And you know, we got got the got the 20 pitchers, 20 catchers through so everybody could see them. And this kid who's in high school sitting there watching me, and he comes up after me, he goes, Who are you? I'm like, What do you mean? He goes, Who are you? He goes, My pitching coach has rings. And you know, I know what teams it's from. He goes, You sound like him. I said, I'm just a 12-year-old that was poorly coached. He's like, Really? I'm like, yeah. You know, but it's the best compliment ever. I don't know the kid's name. You know, like, wait a minute, I sound like the guy who did the ring. He's like, it's all the things. Like, like, how do you know that when you only played to 12? It's like, well, I'm just doing to others as I want it done to me back then. You know, and that's an intrinsic part of my personality. It's not, it's not just being defeated, it's taking that defeat and you know giving the win to someone else. You know, that that's that's you know, it it's this shared thing. And I want to segue that just to press you a little bit more, you know, about I understand that both of us are in similar circumstances here, right? We're I'm just doing this for me, right? That it's for others, that's really cool to me also. Cool. You know, and and it feels oddly selfish on my end, except I'm hearing it's not. I wouldn't know because it feels selfish to me. You know, it's this thing. But where I want to press you is as a local, you're going somewhere. And either it's just a rhetorical question, you know, in the sense that I'm asking it, where are we going? You know, because it's gonna cost something. And you know what you're signing up for. You're signing up for more pain, you know, but for the right reasons this time, you know, not not to not to have the ring yourself to take the picture so that it's about you, but knowing that the process actually it's good for all of us, you know. And I think this is one of the things I I said to you. Uh, you know, I I don't think that we ever really solve problems. We just find out the people that want to solve them with us and we move through that problem together. You know, that that's really what a community is. You know, in light of that, and actually I I don't even need you to answer this. If you want to, you can. You know, it's the big question for all of us is where are we going? You know, and that can be answered a bunch of different ways. You know, you know, we actually don't know where we're going, and that that actually is pretty simple. You know, I I think anybody who thinks they know what's going on right now is fooling themselves. I know a lot about what's going on because I understand the framework, you know, whether it's in economics or geopolitical things, that I'm certainly not as scared as most of my other fellow Democrats. Do I like the orange monster? No. He's touching the things, though. Those are the things that need to be touched. So I have to live with that friction. You know, because those were always the things and we weren't touching them. You know, do I like how he's touching them? No, but guess what? He's touching them, so now what? Um and it's not all wrong. Sorry. I don't like it. It's gross. Wrong? That's that's a big you know, if you haven't figured out what it is he's actually touching, then you it it's hard. It's I I don't like saying that out loud. It isolates me from my fellow Democrats. You know, it isolated me to the tune of a thousand dollars a month just by being open. Just by like, well, you know, I didn't vote for him, but let's see. What? You can't that sounds important. Like, I can't be your friend anymore. I'm like, well, my Republicans were friends with me when I voted for Obama. Like, where's the I thought we were friends? Yeah, like what's you know, I just I I I don't I don't know what's up, what's down, just like all of us. That being said, I know we're lost and I want to be found together. You know, it's like uh I'll ask it again, where are we going? You know, like like, you know, is there a spot where you feel like you're moving towards something?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:53

You know, it doesn't have to be anything, and and I think that's the friction that you will experience, you know, in the places you're there, because you're in commerce, you know, and they're counting costs also. You know, they're they're not just emotional, they're physical.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:09

You know, it it's it's just a lot, you know, because everything counts for something. So you have to peche mode on, right? Everything counts in large amounts. It's a competitive world, you know, like but we're but we just happen to be in this moment in history, right? Yeah and happen to be here in this moment in history.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:32

Where are we going? Um the thing that came up for me almost immediately was uh we're finding ourselves. Because as you said, we're lost, right? Yeah. And when we're lost, it gets really fucking scary. I feel like that's where we're at in the world right now. It's really fucking scary for a lot of people to live in in this world right now, yeah. Because there's a lot of uncertainty, and there's also a lot of really um evil things that are happening, very challenging things to watch um in this time. And when you don't know yourself, then you become disconnected from the very thing that protects you the most.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:28

Say more about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:33

So, what I believe in is that when we are connected to God, divine intelligence, spirit, whatever you call that intelligence that animates all of life, you have the ultimate protection. So no matter what you go through, you will ultimately find yourself safe. When you're disconnected from that, because as human beings, we have a conscious and we have choice to not listen and do whatever we choose to do with this life that we've been given. But when we align with that intelligence, and then miraculously in a very chaotic situation, you get this guidance to go left, you know, through this door versus the door that killed that other person. And you know, when you ask the question, where are we going to? I feel like that's the time that we're living in right now, which is to find ourselves, because in finding ourselves, ultimately what I'm saying is that we find that deeper level of connection to that intelligence, which is who we ultimately are. As human beings, we just incarnate into these bodies as a temporary experience from the eternal, you know, uh energy or consciousness that we ultimately were all made from. And part of the whole game is that we become disconnected and we forget that that's what we ultimately are, and the consequence of forgetting is pain, is stress. And to me, that's the check engine light in a car telling you, hey, something's off. You might want to check. The greater the pain, the farther off you've become from that connection, and essentially the farther you've lost yourself. And so in the world that we live in, you know, in this system, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I feel like it has been designed

Letting Go, Shadow Work, Repentance

SPEAKER_00 1:31:20

to a certain level for us to lose ourselves because it's easier to control and manipulate people and to take power when people don't know themselves. When you don't know yourself, you're not gonna make very good decisions. Yeah. Right? And those decisions usually end up to where you ultimately cause yourself dis-ease. And if you don't find yourself, it's really painful. And that's where I've been for a lot of my life. And so in this process of architecting culture in Santa Cruz is really mostly about that. Is how do we find ourselves? Because when we are able to find ourselves, then and only then can we really feel connected to the other. Because if you're not connected to yourself, how the fuck are you gonna feel connected to anyone else around you? And so that lack of connection that we are feeling in this community and how we silo is merely just reflecting that we have lost ourselves, and so this work is mostly about doing that, and then the result, I hope, is that then we feel that connection externally as an experience because we found ourselves and that we found that connection within. Yeah, for me, it's about just finding myself in this process, and I just so happen to choose the most challenging thing you could possibly try to do as my vehicle. That's the dumbest thing that anybody could try to do. The most painful thing because that pain, right? Yeah is the catalyst for growth. And then and only then, when we recognize that, can we actually free ourselves? That the pain that I'm feeling is it's temporary. And I can transmute that pain into love. And it will feel so amazing once I do that, but I have to understand that that pain is pointing to the ways in which I've lost myself and what I have been taught that causes me not to be who I truly am. That's what pain is for. And the more we understand that, and the more pain that we can lean into, the more opportunity we have to actually find ourselves. And when we find ourselves, then we can actually experience the love that is the result of finding oneself, which is really just the result. It's like life, the divine, and God saying, Good job. Yeah, you are doing it. So here's what you get as a prize. You get to feel love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:40

That's fantastic. I don't want to re-word this, but let's see if I'm catching what you're throwing. I'm gonna sit on the other other side, because you you and I have a very similar vernacular, right? Like you're sitting in the space of words that I would normally do it. So I I'm gonna get practical and I'm gonna talk through economics again. Cool. Okay. What I keep trying to express to everybody is that it's just markets, it's just momentum. And we're seeing a reflection of what we've consumed. And because I'm not a conspiracy person either. And I don't believe that anybody could organize the world. They're not God. They're just markets, it's just momentum, and now we see what we bought. And in the face of what we've bought, what we blissfully consumed, you know, we've realized that it's hurting us and that we're alone. And I think the common thread, and and again, I I'm so sitting outside of this thing that you're doing, it it's it makes me afraid to say something to it because it's not fair. It's just me watching, right? But not even looking, looking. You know, it's like, you know, I I've had to guard my heart against you because I've been waiting for this moment. I I don't want to know you more with what is prophetically sitting inside of my heart for you. You know, I don't want to have confirmation bias of what I thought before I walked into the conversation. That was the point. You know, it's not it's not to it's not to guard me, it's not to guard you, it's to guard the moment and let it be what it is, you know, in this process that we're both going through it this time. That most of what was happening is just a product of us. And it's hard to face us, just as it's hard for you to face yourself, as it feels incredibly stupid for me to be talking about these things in front of a microphone when I gave microphones up a long time ago to project this love that I felt for people, you know, in those spots. You know, I got a lot of Super Bowl rings too. I've always called myself the Tom Brady of life, except in finances. But got the wife, got the kids, got the story, got six of them. They're good stories, man. I crushed it. Empty. Empty. That was a weird feeling, you know. And you know, into this new me, which is not depressed anymore. I don't know how to wake up in the morning. It's weird being in a good mood. It's weird. I don't know how to do it. I live in Capitola, now I live on the south side. It's really peaceful down there. This is weird. This is what it feels like. Oh, okay. How do I do this? How do I take my dog for a walk on the most beautiful street now in Santa Cruz to me? I don't know how to do that. I know how to go for a walk at Pleasure Point. It's pretty too, but it's not this walk, just with myself. And I think if I'm catching what you're throwing, you're wanting to take people on a walk with you. You know, as I want to take people on a walk with me. You know, that hey, you know, all this chaos? Some of it's imaginary. You know, but you don't like actually you do that. Are you willing to look in the mirror and just take a look at what a fucking asshole you are? Because I had a good look in the mirror, you know, three years ago. Ends up I'm a fucking asshole. And even when I'm trying to be nice, the asshole's just like, hey, here I am.

unknown 1:38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:54

And in this process of shadow work that we are clearly both doing, um the complexity lives in a weird spot. You know, it's like, uh, this is complex because people are complex and we're all complex, and it's not that unique that it's complex. You know, we're just all bringing something different to the table. And uh am I catching it? Mm-hmm. Okay. Absolutely. You know, and and so to that answer, for those of you who are from here, for those of you who reach out to me with the what the fuck, now you know. You know, neither Jay nor I know. It's just that after this conversation, I want to hold his hand and say, let's go find out. Let's find out, you know, because the commerce isn't gonna fix it. Yes, we've been siloed by this new economy. It's time to start taking a look at what's separating you. Because it's separating us. And it's not because the liberals are Democrats. It's not it's not because of what they're saying. It's because nobody knows where we're going. And if I can throw a little juggernaut into it, because AI already has the problem solved. And that's an uneasy reality. Because it doesn't solve the human problem. And because our problem is that it's unique to humans. It's how do I fit? And you can work and you can do all these things, and guess what? You still may not feel like you fit, and that's what we all feel right now. And unfortunately, the problem's solved and the money's already there. The money's making money. It doesn't need us anymore. And the intelligence is all collected. So there are no problems. There's just us. And it's a really hard concept to wrap yourself around. People want to condemn Elon. He's trying to explain it. Do I like him? No. But he's trying to explain it. You know, there should be a thousand Elons. That way we can have more than one. So we can judge him. You know. This is what I'm saying. You know, it's like we're in a really weird time because there's one, you know, who's talking about the thing. And if you don't like him, then you don't want to hear about the thing. But, you know, AI is a thing, and it's not coming for us yet. But it's already got our problem solved. And that's complicated because that isn't the answer. Our answer is not our problems. You know, and it makes moments like this hard because commerce and experience is talking back to you. And what does this mean? You know? It wants to know, well, what's the money? Like what's it, what's it gonna cost? You know, the experience is saying this doesn't work, because you know what, it never has. And maybe you're just doing something that won't work, but maybe we'll be closer. And maybe that's good. You know, because we all feel alone. And that's what happened. That's what I'm hoping. You know, is that people don't have to feel as lonely as I did. Trying to do the thing, you know, which is just love people. You know, I don't I don't know what the answer is, man. The market will answer. Always does. It's always got a nice response with a big stick and a nail at

From Othering To Belonging

SPEAKER_02 1:42:40

the end. You know, but we don't have to do it alone. And so I think what I'm hearing from you is we don't have to do it alone.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:52

No, I've tried. I've tried many times, yeah. And that's you know, part of my own conditioning, you know, is to believe that I have to do this on my own. And I have to prove myself first, which I've gone through in this experience now is no, I can't ask for any support in the form of money or even other people's time because I have not proven anything. So who am I to receive any level of support? And I believe that's also to my own detriment and what has caused suffering for me early on, where I found myself face down in my office, stressed all the way out, is because I was like, no, I have to do this on my own, and this is not something that anyone can do on their own. And so that's part of what I needed to bring up in this experience is this conditioning to believe that I'm not worthy enough to receive that support, and I'm still working through that, still trying to take on as much of the load as possible so that others don't feel the pain that is part of this process, you know, to carry. And um yeah, the hardest thing that I've found myself having to do is ask for help in this. And um because also I think that's a part of what I felt like I needed to do to prove to the people who doubt me and that question me. It's like, okay, yeah, you know, maybe you do have a right to doubt me. And I do need to earn the stripes. So I'll get in the locker room and pump the weights and I'll do the sprints and I'll work my ass off. And at some point I will have gained enough stripes to have earned your trust, to have earned your respect, and to and I have to keep showing up. Yeah. And so that's what I'm doing right now, even though it has been difficult, you know, to hold what I'm trying to hold and not be paid for it and try to figure out, you know, financially how to make it work. You know, it's been incredibly challenging to do that. And I feel like that's just what I have to do right now and keep showing up, even though it's really hard. And at some point, I will have found myself to a certain level and degree that allows me to find more ease. But maybe that's never gonna fucking happen. Maybe that's just you know, a figment of my own imagination. But I believe at some point, though, because I have this vision of like having that team, yeah, that ultimately people like yourself, which I really appreciate you, Michael, that are holding my hand because you can see that I have this like genuine desire to fucking win, not just by myself. I want it winning by yourself is one thing, right? And it's cool, but winning with other people and sharing the experience of the win together, like that's such a cool fucking experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:53

And and I and I want to be careful here because you just said something it wasn't wrong. It it just is like I feel a need to express it. The win is not him winning, it's us winning our hearts back. You know, and and because we have these vernaculars and these words, you know, it always gets pointed to the marketplace. This is my point about money. It's it's always like, of course you want to win, you know. But it just I I think it's important for all of my audience to understand what it is Jay is saying. He wants us all to win, and it's not a money thing. Yeah, it's a win yourself back. You know, that that's the reality.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:39

Yeah. Yeah, because when we win ourselves back, the experience that is the result of that and the felt level of like connection that comes from that is better than any money you could make. Yeah. You know, to feel like you are safe and that you could trust the person sitting across from you to me is better than making any amount of money out there. And that's a hard thing to achieve right now in the world. And so that's what I'm going for. It's like, how do we get to that place where people do feel that level of trust and safety? You know, I saw a friend this past weekend who came back from England and she was sharing her her family's in England, right? And she was sharing how that feeling of belonging somewhere, how that impacted her in terms of her creativity, her health and well-being, amongst other things. And when she come, when she came back here, she felt again like an outsider. And I've heard that so many times over the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:52

I joke around that we're the goodbye portion of Aloha. That's Santa Cruz.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:58

And I thought about it, you know, in terms of what's the consequence of that, right? When someone feels like they belong, then they can relax, then they can come to a place of ease. Their nervous systems regulate, right? On a physiological level, when your nervous system is in coherence, your nervous system sends a signal to your brain centers to open, and that's when you feel that connection to divine intelligence. That's when we have that experience of what scientists call flow. And that's what many of us are fucking chasing. Yeah. Right. And on a very material superficial level, what that means is then the intelligence moving through that individual can then manifest into something that we can all benefit from, whether that be a product that is created, a service that's created, or even just the care and empathy and love coming out of that human being, that has an impact on all of us. So what we're doing to ourselves by not focusing on creating that feeling of belonging, which is then goes it goes back to this uh conversation about locals versus you know non-locals, is that the the locals, from my perception right now, and where I sit with it, is like they're blocking themselves from being able to receive the gift that all the non-locals and even the locals have to give by making you work. And there's a certain level of work you need to do. Like I believe that, but to make it as hard to earn that trust and to feel like you belong somewhere has a great fucking consequence to us. And what is the consequence? The consequence is that you don't receive the gift that that human being inherently has to give. We all have that thing. That's what we came to this planet with. And we block ourselves from being able to receive that gift because that gift could solve the housing fucking crisis. That gift could solve for the cost of living amongst all the fucking problems that we have, but we cut ourselves off from it by putting this fucking huge barrier of being able to feel like you belong in this town. And my work is to figure out how do you fucking get that wall down so that people can actually feel like they belong here when they feel like they belong, they can give their gift, and when they're giving their gift and we're sharing that together, like how could you not win?

unknown 1:51:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:01

Look, I think that's really well articulated, and we should stop right there. Because that was the cherry on the cake right there. You know, and for anybody listening, you know, local, non-local to this conversation. These are the types of conversations that we need to have first for the thing to begin. Because the thing has not started yet. We're just seeing something in the collective and trying to identify it. And I think you did a really good job of once again stating facts. You know, I felt my cackles go up. Again, you know, the locals, though, we're not the fucking problem, you know. But but I know we are, you know, you know, but it wasn't our problem, it was the one that was given to us. Yeah. You know, it's been given to us by a lot of different things, and sussing through that's a different conversation is is really my point in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:59

So it's part of the journey, you know. It's not wrong, it's just part of the dynamics that life has set for us to again learn how to come back to ourselves,

What Are We Aiming For

SPEAKER_00 1:53:10

and this is part of the game.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:12

Yeah. Jay, thank you for being you, first of all, and uh and taking the time. I I I know that whatever the process coming into this was not an easy one. You know, because I I could feel it, you know, like well, what's the motivation coming from this guy? You know, of you know, what is it that I'm trying to extract from you? You know, and you like all of us who have called this place home. Um we're trying to sort that out. And you know, whatever audience comes from this, you know, to you know, cue into a conversation you've already been trying to have. I'm just introducing myself to it. You know, what what what that means, I I don't know. You know, I'm not gonna presume on it. But you know, maybe this is my hope that maybe this time, you know, we can get on the same page about some things, you know, about how the behaviors have affected us all. And I can tell you firsthand that this attitude that we have as locals, you know, comes because we're from here. When people adopt it, they make it way worse. You know, it's like you're not from here. Like, shut up. Shut up. Oh, I had a bad day surfing once. No, you don't know what it's like every day. Yeah, just be scared every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:46

But maybe they feel like they have to adopt it as part of the belonging, right? It's like, oh, but if I just be like them, then I will be like them.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:57

Yeah, yeah. That is the thing, and which makes it so ironic is like you're not like us. There's there's never a moment in your life that you're gonna be like us. And it's okay, like we don't want you to be like us, but don't say you're like us because you're not this how do we be, you know, how do we just be who we are, be okay with it, have a common understanding about what it is that's actually happening here. It's not just people being angry.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:24

Yeah. Yeah. And that's a paradox of belonging, is like it's not to be like the other person, it's to be yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:31

Yeah. So, you know, we're learning to be ourselves. Anyways, Jay, thanks so much for your time and uh audience. Thank you so much for uh for giving us your time. I'm so glad you got through it. Um, I'm I'm as Jay is watching me sitting here staring at my phone, getting up the music to queue up. You can take your earphones off now, Jay, because I know it's gonna be too loud because you're 90 now. I don't know what your problem is. You were listening to rap when you pulled up. For Christ's sake, dude. It's not that bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:59

You know, you it's just I was listening to it on like level four.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:03

Oh god. Anyways, whatever. I'm turning it all the way up because Jay's earphones are off right now. It's all the way up in your car. Thank you for listening to the Pack the Stannakers podcast. This podcast is brought to you today by Stennecrease Vives magazine. Check that shit out because it's pretty cool. Brandon's cool guys, quick that stuff. Thank you for your support. Thanks, please, please.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:26

Love y'all have to be coin.