Unpacked In Santa Cruz

Episode 75: Anthony Capriccio: When Sanctuary Meets Survival: Who Gets To Use The Sea

• Mike Howard

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Paradise looks peaceful from the cliff, but step onto a towboat in Monterey Bay and the picture changes fast. We sit down with captain and small business owner Anthony Capriccio to explore why he chose Santa Cruz over everywhere else, how he built a life around boats, and what really happens when the ocean stops cooperating. From routine jumpstarts to midnight salvage, from towing grounded hulls to dragging dead whales offshore with NOAA’s coordinates, Anthony shows us a working bay where risk, responsibility, and rescue live side by side.

We get honest about the paradox at the heart of this coast. The National Marine Sanctuary keeps oil rigs out of the skyline and tide pools alive for our kids, but regulations also squeeze commercial and recreational fishers, charter operators, and the marine trades that anchor harbor life. We talk salmon closures shaped by distant rivers like the Klamath, sardines that vanished and returned, and bluefin booms that blur the lines between harm and natural change. Balance becomes the watchword: protect what’s irreplaceable without locking people out of the water entirely.

Anthony’s story is equal parts family and craft. He and his wife chose Santa Cruz for its redwoods, beaches, and the kind of afternoons where two boys chase starfish along the jetty. He chose towing because it demands preparation, problem-solving, and calm under pressure—progression, not competition. If you’ve ever wondered what the bay looks like from sea looking back at land, or how sanctuary, safety, and small business can coexist, this conversation pulls back the curtain with hard-won clarity and heart.

If this episode resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves the coast, and leave a review to help more listeners find Unpacking Santa Cruz.

Setting The Scene In Santa Cruz

SPEAKER_00

SZ stand up. Yup. Ugh. Here we go.

unknown

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Sometimes I feel like Welcome to the Unpacking Santa Cruz podcast. I'm your host, Michael Howard.

unknown

I can't relax with the fakes around. Gotta represent it.

SPEAKER_04

Staring at a friend right now. Anthony Capricio. What's going on? Good morning. We're doing a podcast. We're doing a podcast. It's weird. It is weird. When I say Santa Cruz, what's the first thing that you think?

SPEAKER_01

Oh.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Why here? Oh man. Carrie and I have beat that topic up and down the street. Carrie's born and raised Narragansett, Rhode Island. I'm born and raised in Huntington Beach, California. When I met Carrie, she was living in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. When we came together, we were starting to talk about building a life together. Yeah, I mean, we vetted all four corners of the country. We had pretty much settled or leaned towards Santa Cruz. Early in our relationship, the early foundations of our relationship were actually in Huntington Beach. And we didn't need to spend more than like six months there together, realize there's not for us. This is not gonna work.

SPEAKER_04

You're a quarter mile from the beach, you can't get there. It's just right there.

Why Santa Cruz Won Out

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I guess it's a town, but it is not the same town I grew up in. Um, yeah, we spent took us six months to realize we didn't want to be there, took another three years to get out, came back to Santa Cruz. Um yeah, I mean we vetted Carrie's hometown in Narragansett, Rhode Island, we vetted Florida. Um we have the right mix of geography, uh forest, redwoods, beach, ocean, Monterey Bay. Man, I mean, to raise two boys. That's pretty good zone. Yeah. Right? It's January. No, it's what, early February? Yeah. And since late January, it's been 65 degrees or better. And we've spent out of every two or three, we've spent a few, I think we've spent more afternoons at the beach in the last few weeks than we had. We did in like June or July. I uh driving home from the beach yesterday at 5 30 and it's 75 degrees. Yeah. In February. Yeah. My boys running around with t-shirts and underwear in the water.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, Kim Kim said the water's warm right now. I don't know if the water's warm. I mean, it might be warm for February.

SPEAKER_02

Um, so we just have not been able to find anything we could find, anything better to raise a couple of boys. Build build a life, build a livelihood. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's there's some there's some things we wish were a little bit better. Um not necessarily Santa Cruz, but I mean California in general. Um but for Carrie and the things that Carrie and I need to be happy and content and live a full life and then be the foundation for our two boys. Yeah, Santa Cruz is right now checking as many of the boxes as we could ask.

Family, Weather, And Daily Life

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Okay, so why don't you tell the little the audience a little bit about yourself? Obviously, you're married, have two sons.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Um married. Man, I think we're gonna I think this is 2026. This will be our 10th year. Our anniversary will be December of this year. Two boys. Uh Asher will be six this year in May. Owen will be two in March. Um I run the local tow boat operation here. Okay. Um what's that? On-the-water tow truck. So if you break down at sea in Monterey Bay, we'll come get you. I've been doing that seven years in May. Uh, as a captain, we took over the business from um our predecessor, my mentor, Monty Ash and Jalen Ash. Let's see, that transition was April last year. So I've been in the business for almost seven years, owned the business for almost a year.

SPEAKER_04

So for the audience, um, what that means is uh I'm sitting in front of a dude who tows vessels on on the Monterey Bay, and uh and that can be pretty precarious at times. Yeah, it's sporty. Yeah, but you spend a lot of time on the water. We spend a lot of time on the water. What what's a I I mean, from your vantage point, uh because it's so unique, you see Santa Cruz a different way than most people do every day. Most of us are staring out at the water. You stare at the land.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Meet The Towboat Captain

SPEAKER_04

And and uh for anybody who's been here, it's it's a very special place to go to. Uh if you ever get the chance to to go on the water, to go on the O'Neill yacht and go for sale or Chardonnay. That's generally two ways you're gonna do it. You know, you can go ferry go fish for the day often. Yeah, you can you could you could do these things, but but Anthony's world literally is floating. You know, it's it's uh it's a whole different thing, and you're helping people out in situations they don't want to be in. Uh you rescue boats when you can off the beach when they're not moored right. There's a lot of things that that that Anthony has has a really different worldview than most of us have because his view is from sea, not out to sea. And uh it it's just a different spot. What's it like being on the water that much? Like you know, because because you you live both sides.

SPEAKER_02

It's kind of funny. So I grew up in Huntington Beach, grew up around boats. My family always had boats, recreational boats. So I had a good idea of what that area looks like from the water. And I remember moving up here, and for the few first few years, I never really had access to a boat, and I'd always be driving East Cliff or West Cliff and be like, God, I wonder what this place looks like from the water. It's kind of weird not to have access to it. Um yeah, and we interact with just about anything that can float or will float. Um, so our bread and butter is yeah, if you're out in your boat and you break down or you need your your battery dies, you need a battery jump, you need fuel, whatever, we'll come help you. Very much like a tow truck. Uh marine tow truck. But where it really starts to get interesting is yeah, if a boat hits a beach, um, we'll tow it off the beach. We'll pull it off the beach. So it's more of the salvage world. Yeah. Uh hopefully that boat is still a boat when it hits the beach. Um a lot of boats don't last long, right? Usually 24 that after that 24-hour mark of being on the beach, if we can't get at them. Um it's yeah. Is the boat coming off via water and the tow boat, or is it coming off via land, sawzaws at a train? There goes your 200,000 bucks cut off pieces. Um ideally they're coming off via water to sail another day. But um, you know, a boat could sink at a dock. Yeah. And we'll go raise it. Um and we tow a lot of other weird stuff. So if a whale dies at sea and floats and then lands on a beach where somebody doesn't want it, they'll call us and we'll tow it off the beach for them. Uh huh. Right? So 40-foot gray whale, humpback whale. Um, you know, they again died before it hit the beach for whatever reason. And I think the last one I can remember uh was a Cypress Point golf course. And it was like run it right under one of their holes or one under their T's. So really uh visible spot and attracting wildlife and it stunk and they don't want it there anymore. So we pulled it off for them. And when we do something, we get a coordinate with Noah because they tell us where they want us to drop it so that you know, wind, waves, and current won't put it back on another beach so that could be 34 miles, 30 to 40 miles offshore. Tone a dead whale by its tail.

Seeing Santa Cruz From The Water

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. We well, we just went through a weird one, right? You know, because that poor lady got hit off a lover's point. Oh, yeah. And it was it was so weird to have the body be in Davenport, which, you know, for those of you who are listening, you know, what what is that like?

SPEAKER_02

Santa Cruz Harbor to Monterey Harbor is 22 miles.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so we're talking like almost 40 35 nautical miles in that range. And it was in especially five days, especially and especially in the middle of like this moment, you know, it's not like we got a bunch of south swell running. Yeah, and somehow it was it was a little little weird, but like a lot goes on out there. It it it's I I wouldn't call the the Monterey Bay peaceful per se, you know, like it it can get pretty angry in the bay. But uh I don't think anybody knew that there was a current that ran from Carmel up to on the surface. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Presuming it was on the surface, yeah. But then how did nobody see it? Yeah, no, it's uh it's something about that story. It just doesn't either something I mean, I can't speak it. You kind of think about it like, okay, either there's something really weird happening, or there's really something we don't know about how that ocean works.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, which is most likely the case. You know, it's that that she passed by the trench at some point, so who knows?

SPEAKER_02

Who knows what that winter we should have more of a north-south flow.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, big sur I would have understood.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So with Tobot, we do see or we're made aware of, or sometimes we get called. Um, you know, when swimmers are lost. It's for a reason it's north town beaches, right? It's a few a year, somebody gets swept off rocks or off a beach or whatever. We unfortunately don't make it. And it becomes a search and rescue, and we're typically looking for a body. More often than not, those bodies don't end up very far from the last time those people were seen. Yeah, yeah. This is 30 around, somewhere around 35 miles.

SPEAKER_04

Like it went all the way across the bay and outside of the bay. There's a shark involved. Yeah. I have a feeling that I have a feeling she traveled. I think she got taken for a little ride. What a shark do that? I don't know. I'll go on the record. My early speculation is that you know, we don't see them often, but they do come. We have a lot of south in the water this year, as far as swell goes, and and we may have seen another species. That's all. You know, the the the tigers do live in the Pacific. That's cold for that, though. That species.

Salvage Work And Strange Jobs

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I am not a biologist, I am not a shark expert. Yeah, as surfers, watermen, boat guys, yeah, we kind of are a little in tune with those. As much out of survival as anything. Um really out of place.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, the but if but not unheard of, that's my point.

SPEAKER_02

But if what we're told is that shark attacks are usually on humans, are usually a point of mistaken identity or curiosity or whatever. Okay, so if we believe that narrative, if somebody got bit and the shark was, oh, okay, this is not a sea lion, typically the instinct is to release it. For us to believe in it possibly moved the body.

SPEAKER_04

I I I'm I'm sitting in big ifs right now. Yeah, it's I probably shouldn't speculate, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know what the species that concerns me more than the man, uh, an orc of a dude. Oh, yeah, there you go. An orc of a dude.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, yeah, yeah. They they like to play with their food.

SPEAKER_02

There's no mistaking an orc for a great white, but the whole it was hanging out with the great whites.

SPEAKER_04

It was all national geographic down there. We've all been out those days.

SPEAKER_02

Well, yeah, and then the again, just from what I heard, and I did not do any research, I am not an expert, but uh yeah, I was sitting at a traffic light and I happened to look at the water and I saw a great white jump with a body in its mouth is what I heard. That what?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. All right, so you lived in Huntington Beach. Yep. Twice. Twice. One one time by choice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

What what caught you up here in the first place?

SPEAKER_02

UCCI Cruise. Um graduated high school 05. I applying for school. I got into one of the Hawaii schools, one of the San Diego schools, I think one of the Florida schools, and ironically enough, Coast Guard Academy. Oh, and then uh Cal Maritime. My my logic at the time. My 18, 19-year-old logic. San Diego's a little too close to home, Florida's a little too far, Coast Guard's a little too military. Nah, I go to Santa Cruz. And I want to. I think I decided I was gonna get a business degree, but didn't actually look to see if Santa Cruz even had a business program. It was more like, oh, okay, Santa Cruz has waves, I'll go there. Uh yeah, so that's what laying to me here.

Whales, Currents, And Unanswered Mysteries

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And when I met you, you came as a cliche. Oh yeah. Orange County kid looking like a hippie. Had the beard, the long hair. I had long hair, yeah. Yeah. And for for all the listeners, anybody who surfs and is from here knows when someone's not from here just by uh the the there's a perception of what Santa Cruz is, and anybody not from here brings it. And so Anthony entered my life, you know, a long time ago. And uh it was just funny. It took you quite a few years to begin to notice who wasn't from here. You know, and I know you and Kim and Kim have talked about this at length about like you you you were always surprised, like, how did you know that we weren't from here? Well, you were wearing rip curls and you know surfboards, you you walked a particular way. Like, there's there's all these things that that uh it it it it's it just is a thing. And and and so when you came from Huntington, you know, the point of bringing that up was like, what did you think Santa Cruz was as opposed to what what you've discovered it is?

SPEAKER_02

This is kind of funny because Santa Cruz High Surf Coach, Andy Verdone, when I told him I was going to UC Santa Cruz, he goes, Well, you better wear an O'Neal. All right. Um Yeah, localism was definitely more of a factor. Uh you know, I had in my head I'd have to be a little more selective about where I would surf, how I would surf, what I would wear, how I'd present myself. Um be aware of pecking orders, obey pecking orders. Um certainly a little the mystique around it, you know, just read in magazines and hear about it. A little a little rougher than Huntington. Yeah. I was kind of thinking about this last night, actually, ironically. Almost seem like so if if Santa Cruz has gone in through phases, and I haven't really may have seen a few of them. I have to imagine there was a pre-UCSC phase. Santa Cruz had it had had its had its identity pre-UC Santa Cruz. And then there was the pre-Silicon Valley influence phase, right? I kind of kind of seemed like I saw the Santa Cruz kind of take its last breath as the Silicon Valley movement was choking out what Santa Cruz was just before that transition. So what does that mean to you? So when I when I got here, there were places that for me not being from here, I don't surf, right? I don't really I don't show up at the harbor, I don't show up at the river mouth, I don't even look towards the ocean passing Stockton Avenue. Right. Right? Just don't even look at it. Um Getchell Street.

SPEAKER_04

Is probably local. So you can surf that. You can go surf out to Getchell Street. Because that's where all the UCSC kids were allowed to surf.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I think I mean I popped off the lane. Yeah. Um I I think the my perception of the lane that was was gonna be that it was gonna be heavily localized, and it wasn't as much as I had thought, but there was still a pecking order there. Um yeah. And uh I made a point to show up in the lane regularly, but mind my P's and Q's, take the waves that were mine, but obey a pecking order, and I'm not going on the sets kind of deal. Um so I saw a little bit of localism, pecking order, all that, that, all that dynamic, but then I definitely watched it fade and it fade fast. So I was here in 05, graduated in 09. And then yeah, pre-traffic Santa Cruz.

unknown

Yeah.

Loss, Search Calls, And Ocean Reality

SPEAKER_02

That all that the yeah, I watched that transition. Kind of really felt like as I was coming out of school, that transition was happening fast. Well, there's a toe call. Uh oh. Got your guy on it? That's the third one this morning. This morning. I have a guy on it. All right. We haven't had to a co-call in two weeks. Yeah. January is that time of year. Now you got three. Yeah. You okay?

SPEAKER_04

You need to get that? Um, Carrie'll deal with it. Okay. So let's talk about that a little bit, because like this traffic is new traffic. And like, kind of look at it, you know, Santa's like Santa Barbara's been in traffic as long as I remember. You know, they've they've always been working on that little strip of of the water. The highway one.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

It kind of seems we're taking their place a little bit, and that that's done it a little bit, but it's really different. Like, like post-COVID, it it's happening. You know, it it it and you don't know when it's happening. It happens two hours earlier.

SPEAKER_02

But it was I mean, definitely a pre-COVID phenomenon.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it was kind of beginning. And you know, that's the valley influence, but now there's so many people not going to work.

SPEAKER_02

There should be less traffic.

SPEAKER_04

There should be less traffic. Like I don't know what's going on, and construction doesn't explain it all.

unknown

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04

Because we've always had bad construction.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I come from Orange County. Yeah. So what what we call traffic here in Santa Cruz is just this is great. Yeah. I will find if this is traffic, fantastic. And then the three years Carrie and I were down living in Huntington, I was commuting into San Gabriel, which is basically LA, 405, 605. And to have four lanes of that kind of traffic on the highway just to get to work and get back to work, this is breath of fresh air for me. Um yeah, it's it's weird. It's I don't remember being like that when I first got up here, all that traffic. Uh Mission Street, Highway One, Soquel, just the the the bridge construction, uh, the bridge going over the harbor. Yeah. That is not great. Um that's impacting it acutely locally. Right. But yeah, that whole phenomenon. It feels like that was 2009. It kind of got started more traffic, and then I don't know.

UC Santa Cruz, Localism, And Culture Shifts

SPEAKER_04

It's just slowly you might you're gonna remember it better than I do. Well, it's just slowly digressed into something more. I you know, and again, I don't really remember it because I live seven minutes from i anywhere I wanted to be. So, you know, the jewel box life was pretty convenient to get wherever you needed to be in town, you know, because there's there was always another way. And what would you know uh I mean to me it's kind of ways that I look at, you know, the you know the map is what changed things quite a bit. So I think that's yeah, I don't know. You know, what what once once I started people seeing people coming through my neighborhood in the jewel box being sent by Waze is is when things shifted for me. You know, like oh you know, these these guys don't know where they're at. But they're getting routed through routed through the jewel box, you know, when things get tight here on here on 41st. Got it. Got got a little wonky then, and then once yeah, whatever whatever happened there. Anyways, uh but for you, you know, you you you you came to Santa Cruz with an idea, you got here, you found out some of those things were confirmed. Uh you know, you you left for you know a couple, three years and and you came back like like what was the thing that that was like that drew you here, you know, because y you did the bad thing, which is once you're here you left. Generally, generally if you leave, you don't get to come back. You fought your way back. And you know, what what was that that incentive in there?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I hardly put words to it.

SPEAKER_02

Um Santa Cruz has the had what I wanted to build a life off of. So more trees and concrete, right? Compare that to Orange County or LA. Um open space. You know, Santa Cruz City is a little tight, but 10 minutes up the road, right? As soon as you clear Western, right? Open farm, ranch, trees, right? Five, ten minutes down the road, nicing marks. Um open space, room to room to stretch, room to breathe. Um great spot to raise a family, especially a couple of boys, right? Beach, forest, all that sort of stuff. Um slower, small, still a small time vibe compared to where I came from. Um as much as I can put to words, but um felt more like home than where I grew up. Santa Cruz is cle Huntington before I got into high school felt like a smaller beach town. You could walk into the biggest surf shop in Huntington Beach, and the guys behind the counter surf that morning, and if you were a young kid, they'd kick you down the wax comb and a couple bars of wax and a bunch of stickers. Everybody in there surfed. By the time I got out of high school, it's more like a department store. Mm-hmm. Walk in there and okay. One out of three people surf. It's more about selling clothes than you know. It's not it's not a small town anymore. Yeah. The ironically. So the up over Main Street, I don't even know if it's still there. There used to be a clock tower. Might be might still be there. Um it was a Huntington thing, that clock tower. At some point in high school, there was a brand logo put in that clock tower. And the brand is ironic. Um, because it was actually it was O'Neal. Yeah. Um, I was like, uh, alright. This is the way we're yeah. It's now we're going that direction. It's now an industry town. Yeah. And oh, you go down there now and Pacific City, and it's feels more like Disneyland, bought and sold, yeah, marketed and fine. I mean that the direction it chose to go. Chose quote unquote. Um, not for me, not interested.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so not necessarily in a political way, but but in a general way. Huntington is probably one of the most conservative places in in California. Yep. And which generally surprises people. Um there's more white nationalists there than anywhere. It's it's a pretty crazy little spot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Traffic, Tech, And A Changing Town

SPEAKER_04

You know, the this choice to kind of move out of that space to a place that probably represents the antithesis as a culture.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, what what what is that like, you know, coming from your end? Because, you know, again, this doesn't have to be a political thing in any way. It just is, there are just certain realities. You know, what we know now about Huntington, you know, post-COVID because it was on national news. You know, I'm sure the nation was like, what do you mean Huntington Beach is like there's some irony there.

SPEAKER_02

Um being politically maybe underdeveloped and ignorant in you know my early 20s, just agnostic. Yeah. Probably helped me put roots in Santa Cruz. I I Carrie and I certainly lean, even though we come, we both Carrie also comes from a very uh democratic state. We lean a little bit more conservative. We lean um a little bit more a lot. Well, we're not not white nationals by any means, but lean a little bit more towards maybe Huntington's politics. Yeah. Um, some of this greater California politics, maybe some of the local Santa Cruz politics we don't necessarily align with real well. Um but it feels like home. But it does feel like home. But yeah, the there's a paradox. There's a little conflict there. Yeah, there's the paradox. Um, let's see. Do we like seeing a pristine Monterey Bay and a National Marine Sanctuary? Yeah, that aligns with some of our values. Um Do we have fishermen friends and clients in the harbor that are being pushed towards the edge of existence because of conservation? Yeah, we do. Yeah. There's a little bit of conflict there.

Why He Left And Fought Back To Return

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Um Well, let's let's sit let's see here for a minute, because you know, on a national scale, we we we get we talk about these things in in a very big form. And I I don't I don't know that there's anywhere in the world that or that would that anybody would like a human that would just see the fisheries, you know, get demolished, right? Right, which is there's a contingent that likes to be. Yeah, yeah. And and they can, you know, they they they can go live where where wherever they're they're gonna live and go do something else. Um you know, the Monterey Bay is all has we've always had a very strong roots in protecting the region, but there is a conflict, and what people don't realize, you know, if you're not really from the West Coast, you don't understand all the paradigms, you know, the Klamath River is the most important river in the U.S. and people don't know this. There's more political action, more life that comes from that river up in Oregon that empties out and and into the coast that dictates what fish get caught where and how many of them can be caught. You know, Santa Cruz, uh the Monterey Bay has a double-down effect in that it's a national sanctuary, you know, for this idea. And, you know, like you, you know, I agree about those things, but I also have my commercial fishermen friends, you know, we know that there's fish out there. The fish are not as diminished as they're saying that they are, but it's based on a metric, you know, thousand miles away, and and there's this friction that lives here, which which is the point, you know, that that we're bringing up. You know, once you pass the sanctuary, you can catch fish again. And and uh it's it's it like it it lives in a weird paradox of like, well, we're trying to be ideal, and that idealism lives to the point where, you know, as you were expressing before, about about the engines, you know, that that there's just these these kind of band-aid fixes to things, uh you know, for the rescue units that rescue surfers, you know, there's there's a special permitting process for jet skis, you know, when when there's people drowning, and there's plenty of people here that would say, well, it's just good that people drown because they should know better. And those are human beings, you know, it's like it just lives in a it l like we're we're weird that way, you know, because we we do have these bookend people, you know, where I would say, you know, there there are people here that don't give don't care whether the earth exists after they exist. And there are people here that don't really care about humans in any way to the point that they think they're gonna protect, you know, they're they're protecting things that maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I grew up uh in a town where your coastal view included five or six oil rigs. Yeah. That's just normal.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And you know what? They held a lot of fish. Got a lot of fish off those oil rigs. Um that was just a part of life. Then I come to Monterey Bay and I was like, whoa, there's nothing. It's just natural. Um, which is fantastic. And obviously, the whole oil rig is a current hot topic, right? Because of what's happening federally. Um, do I want to see an oil rig in Monterey Bay? No, not really. Yeah. I drive but uh at the same time, I drove here in a gasoline-powered truck. Yeah, yeah. So can I sit here and say, no, you can't put an oil rig in Monterey Bay, but you can go put one Saudi Arabia or whatever. Yeah. So, no, I don't I don't want your industry in Monterey Bay because it's my Monterey Bay. Go, go, go fuck up somebody else's view. Yeah. I can't say that. I can't say that honestly.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Politics, Paradox, And Home

SPEAKER_02

And then, yeah. Uh it's interesting to watch. Again, I love that my boys get to grow up here. I love that I took my almost two-year-old son, walked along the Santa Cruz Harbor jetty just to go look at a starfish. Right. Both of my boys, when they were little, they're little, but um, we go down to the beach and they would both come to me and say, I want to go look for starfish. Go walk along the jetty, holding them, walking between rocks to go look at the starfish, right? That's gonna be a memory forever. Uh and I want to protect that, absolutely. I don't want to I don't want to see that go away. I can't remember finding starfish really anywhere in Hindu Beach, and they were probably there, we just didn't look, but um. If I establish that a certain species is endangered, and I've through whatever metrics I've proven that it's endangered, whether it's a salmon or a whale or a seal or a smelt or whatever. And I said, okay, this is endangered, and I get it listed as endangered. And okay, well, it only exists in this geography, this this spot. So we're gonna close that spot. You can't do anything, you can't do, you can only do what we say you do in this location. Well, okay, so all of a sudden it's okay, we're protecting the species, but wait a minute, now you control this geography?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait, well, hold on.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Wait a minute, we can't fish here anymore? Yeah. We can't operate uh watercraft here anymore. Hold on a second. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

When it gets to that level, then it's like, uh it's it's it's it's a weird pressure cooker because now you're controlling land. Well, see Christmas time, right? Always gone for a walk. And we we'd walk from the jewel box up to Pleasure Point. It was always the King tides. You know, there's just a there's just a pattern of existing here that for the most part the people that lived here knew about it, but it wasn't heavily impacted. And you you get to this beauty that we hold here. Now, when you go on those king tides, there are thousands of people literally damaging the reef and the species, sure, walking, you know, where it used to be you might run into a dozen people on that walk. Now now it's we're down there. Now's down there on that. Now it's now it's Disneyland, you know, and and everybody's everybody's walking on it. And and again, the strange paradox, like which you know, which which moment was was was the right moment for what it is we're all here for.

SPEAKER_02

Sure, that's uh gonna be destructive for intertitle species. I don't think it's any argument against that. But at the same time, there's fashion happening.

SPEAKER_04

That's what's fascinating, though. It's like there's no argument about it really, except that like what I'm watching is like, holy shit, you guys can't be walking on that. Like, do well, it it's seeing enemies, you know, all of it, you know.

SPEAKER_02

It's but uh yeah, then the the other side of that for me is okay, well, the vast majority of people are gonna interact with the ocean at the intertidal zone. That's where it's gonna happen. In order for people to understand that there's an ocean and there's living organisms and all this stuff, yeah. You know what? There's gonna be some attrition. Yeah. It's not gonna be perfect.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

If you start going down that road, how long, how long is it gonna be? How many steps away are we from surfing being bad for the environment?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, we all know surfing's bad for the environment. Okay. There are certain areas where we can't go recreational fishing because of a species or a group of species that they're trying to protect in that area. We can't fish there. Okay. Well, wait a minute. How many steps away or how many steps removed are well you can't surf here because of whatever? Yeah, I mean, you can't go to the beach here.

Sanctuary Versus Livelihood

SPEAKER_04

You private, you privatize a beach and all hell breaks loose. No, this is my point. You privatize a beach and all hell breaks loose.

SPEAKER_02

But if the state comes into it and says, okay, well, this sea anemone is endangered. You can't go on the beach here. You can't surf here. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not happening. No. But how many steps removed are we from that?

SPEAKER_04

Not not quite as removed as as we as we imagine.

SPEAKER_02

It's happening in the boating world. It is happening in recreational fishing. It is happening very much in commercial fishing.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's it There's a lot of things we're not saying right now, folks. You know, not not not for the sake of not saying that saying it. It's just the angsty prospect, there's too many other things that would bring offense to people, I guess, who don't fully understand the picture that we're kind of we're kind of bouncing around that that you know, I think especially in this town, there's a very high regard for nature and the natural species that are around us. Uh what the actual problem is uh it's a little obscure. Yeah, yeah. And and you know, we we we all have our you know, we we have our three-toed salamanders, right? Uh where I live now. And uh, you know, once the three-toed salamander foundation was established, literally down the street from from where I'm living, uh if a farmer gets old and dies and you know, in that process maybe isn't grooming the land the way that they used to, they lose their farm. They lose the ability to, you know, like if if if a Raspirian habitat re-emerges, that land is now gone. And while, you know, as as someone who's more on the conservation side, I I am I am all about as much as we can doing that, but but taking away someone's rights to land that we're doing things there for for 60, 70 years. Because this is the thing that that's going on on my block, and it's just one block. You know, it's like, oh, you know, I I understand what you're trying to do, but there's a friction there, you know, because this place has traditionally grown food for the community, and and you're you're saving a not even acre patch of something, taking away someone's welfare as though that's actual true conservation. You know, that that that the you know because because you know the the politics of it sound nice, the practical administration of it, you know, just doesn't it doesn't work the way people think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I grew up in a zone where it was we just didn't eat many fish that we caught within like a five mile radius of the beach. We just didn't do it, right? Because at least what I was told. Yeah, pollution. They're they're kind of weird. Yeah, you know, you still want to eat those. Yeah. Well, it wasn't in my later years that I found out, oh, there's actually a DDT super fun site off of Long Beach somewhere. I um yeah, it's actually advised you you don't eat these species because it's dangerous for your health.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Would I I don't want to see anywhere come to that level, right? I don't want to see that become a problem. Um do I believe there should be some sort of prevention of that circumstance ever happening again anywhere? Yeah, of course. Yeah, right. I don't want my kids to be subject to that. Um go get the chemical companies.

SPEAKER_04

Don't come for us.

SPEAKER_02

Well, yeah, then where do I draw the line?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Regulations, Rivers, And Big Forces

SPEAKER_02

Right? Where do I draw the line? Yeah. Again, back to the oil rigs. I don't want to see an oil rig in Monterey Bay. That's not really that's not what I don't desire that. But I've got a I've got a gasoline-powered truck parked outside. Yeah. So for me to say no, you can't do that here's a little bit. Um I love that my kids grew up in a very pristine zone where they can go interact with nature. And yeah, okay, you have to run around the tide pools. There's gonna be a little bit of attrition. There are some places in Southern California where I have fished as a kid that you can't fish anymore because the Department of Fish and Games says you can't fish there anymore. I think it's mostly state regulated. There might be some federal. So don't quote me on that. It might be federal, it might be state. I don't know. But a government body said you can't fish there anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

I not a biologist. I'm not a political expert. Um, so I can't tell you if that's a good idea or not. Yeah. But I can tell you now that it's illegal for me to fish where I used to catch a fish. That's a little weird. I don't know how. Why I feel about that. How if we keep going down that road, where does that stop?

SPEAKER_04

Well, I'm gonna counter you here pretty hard. Bring it just just for a minute. Not not for the sake of argument, but for the sake of understanding of the audience. When I grew up here, it was a pretty regular thing that we would be at the beach, someone would go off and pop two abalonies off the side side of a rock. Oh yeah. And you'd eat. You know, it wasn't it wasn't uh that that was dinner that night. And uh try to find an abalone now, good luck. You know, that like that there there are just things that you know, the the Santa Cruz of my youth was ripe with life coming out of the sea. And and so so there's there's genuine evidence of of the of how much the fish stock, the wildlife stock has has really been harmed. Uh, you know, taking the approach that I think these administrations are are trying to attempt you know to to fix these things. I I I I think it's good, you know, in the sense that we we want to replenish as best as we can, you know, what what what can and should be available, you know, as far as these stocks. And but it but what happens locally doesn't address what's happening. Like a lot of the decisions here, at least again are made in Oregon. You know, it's it's it's come coming off of a different river, and how many, how many salmon supposedly did or didn't go up that river, and that's kind of where the big, big fishing issue is, and we'll just leave that there. But what we do, whether it's locally in California or nationally as a country in the federal level does nothing to address the larger fishery issue, which is you know mostly Asian fishing boats that that are coming through and just trouncing you know whole regions and they're doing it in the outer waters. Like there's there's no there's no way to get at the case.

SPEAKER_02

There's no no, yeah, there's no silver bullet.

Overfishing Myths, Migrations, And Data

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And it's it seems like there's a lot of what we do. And it and again, it's it's putting power back into the people of California in some way. Like, you know, our our joke always with you is is uh how long was your shower? You know, because if you're from Santa Cruz, it's two minutes. You know, if if everybody from everywhere else is taking 10-minute showers, you know, the there be because of the nature of the friction that we experience locally here with how little water would show up during drought years, things like that. But that being said, you know, it does empower people to help, you know, when we when the individual does take responsibility for what they are consuming, how they are doing stuff. You know, imposing that stuff legally on on issues that are that are they're just bigger is a real conundrum, I think is what's sitting in this conversation of like we we want our rights as Americans, you know, as Californians, that kind of thing. But at the same time, are we the ones bearing the consequences of what other countries are doing, you know, to to the fish populations to harm the country and making us responsible for what other countries are doing to us?

SPEAKER_02

I absolutely believe on the fishery side. In some sort of regulation. I don't have I don't have a problem with size and bag limits. Yeah, okay, this fish doesn't start breeding until it gets to this length, right? So you you if it's 12 inches, fine. Don't start taking fish until they're 14 inches, right? Let let them have some room, whatever that is. You don't need to come home every day with do we really need to do I need to come home every day with a bag of 20 miss mixed rockfish?

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_02

No, I don't need that. Right, right. I can't speak for the guy down the street who I don't know, maybe he's got 10 kids, I don't know. Yeah. Um I I I grew up with that stuff, size and bag limits. That I get. That's I'm okay with that. If I look out at my experience with the environment, have there been changes in my near 40 years of being on the planet? Yeah, it's different. No, yeah, you know, I haven't seen that species in a while. Or I used to catch a lot of that species here, and I haven't seen them in a while. Does that mean something was harmed? Or did something change?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's always hard to unpack. Because you're not old, you're not old enough to remember the sardines were supposedly overfished, and that's why they are gone from the Monterey Bay. And what they discovered is the sardines moved to Africa and then they decided to come back.

SPEAKER_02

Or whatever.

SPEAKER_04

No, that's what happened with that particular species. And they and they then they left Africa, and now Africa, in the region where they went to, which is in the southern portion, has a sardine problem now. You know, whereas we have sardines again and they've been here since 2000.

SPEAKER_02

When I grew up in Southern California, when I came of age in recreational fishing, it was far more common to catch an albacore within one day, one day's fishing trip range from Long Beach. I I have I don't think we've seen Albuquerque down there in 10 years. Maybe one, a couple. Now it's more common to catch yellowfin. Yellowfin is typically more of a warm water fish, albacore is more of a cold water fish. Is that because albacore stocks have crashed? Or is there just something changed? Ocean current changed, whatever. Now, now bluefin down there is for the past, I think it's close to 10 years. It's got more bluefin down there than anything else.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Balance: Conservation And Access

SPEAKER_02

What changed? I I I I believe there was a change in regulation on purseining for bluefin, which is human interaction. Okay. Is that I mean, was that the watershed moment? That that change in regulation, or was there a change in current? Well, yeah. I am not a biologist. I cannot tell you. I I don't know if it's harm, I don't know if it's change. Um I don't know, can't tell you. Um all I can do is uh you know, observe this is what I see, this is what I think about it. Vote accordingly. Yeah. Um it's the hard part severely millennial. I it's really hard to look at any piece of information that comes out and take it at face value. Yeah. Like, oh, okay, well, who was paid what? And who what's their political view? And what what do they gain? What do they not gain from this? Yeah. At the end of the day, fine. We need some conference conservation. Can't be a free-fall. I don't want a DDT super fun site in Monterey Bay where my kids can't eat. Can't eat their first fish.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right? Yeah. Um I don't think it should be a free-for-all. I don't think it should be able to kill everything. Needs to be some regulation. Certainly don't want to see, oh well, you can't go walk down the tide pools anymore. You might step on them, whatever. Yeah. It it's not a right answer. It has to be a balance.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it's it it's it it in the silence and the stalls and this conversation, you know, lives the friction of being here. You know, this this reality where, you know, literally international policy is showing up in the Monterey Bay. And at every every level. We're just talking about fish. You know, it's it it just it it's it's a very weird time to approach subjects because certainly in my lifetime, again, the sardines are are like one of the biggest stories of my lifetime, in the sense that like they just were eradicate or we thought they were eradicated, when in reality they had just migrated, and it was a weird phenomena, like they just all came back.

SPEAKER_02

Did humans influence that species? Yeah, absolutely. We had a tremendous amount of weed influence, yeah. Did we influence salmon and whales and sea lions? Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. Yeah, um, yeah, oh man, I could go down that road. Yeah. Um and I in terms of motivation uh and views and all that stuff, I I wasn't thinking about this throughout this conversation, but it occurs to me now. Um I mean, I gotta be up front. If if you if you stopped all recreational fishing in Monterey Bay, I gotta be honest, I'll be out of business.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

100%. I gotta go find a different career. Yeah. Right? Because a big and and commercial. Uh a big contingent of our clientele is recreational fishing. So yeah, we I'm definitely impacted when uh okay, no, there's no salmon fishing this year.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and and I'll I'll let let my audience know, look, they are trying to get motors off of the bay. Like, period. That is in essence the goal. You know, that unless it's got a government flag on that boat, they don't want a boat in here. That that that that is that is the goal. Uh and why. Yeah, well, well, it's it it it it's it's just weird. It's yeah, yeah, but but that that is the goal, you know, is is the they're really trying to make a sanctuary of Northern California, period. You know, like like no human interaction.

SPEAKER_02

No, no. The only species that's not allowed to be here are the humans. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

Risk, Rescue, And Responsibility At Sea

SPEAKER_02

All right. Um, and that that's an exaggeration. That's a nobody said that. Except that's the implication. Um yeah, so yes, if if if if that happened, I'd be out of business. Right. So I I have that motivation. The what balances me out on the other side is right, I'm not I'm not uh burn all the dinosaur juice, big, small, kill them all. Right? Rape pillage, not not my deal. Um yes, I do I have to make a living. I make I do make a living serving the recreational and commercial fishing community. Um I want my kids to grow up in a clean environment, natural environment, keep it as natural as we can. Um there's a yin yang there, there's gotta be a balance. I want my kids to have a the uh the the first outboard motor I ever had as a kid might not be compliant right now. Right? A two-stroke outboard. We can't you can't sell one, I don't think, in California. I had to I had to double check that, I'm not sure. But yeah, I want my kids to grow up boating, or have the option to grow up boating if that's what they choose, and fishing and all that stuff. But I also wanted to be clean. A rowboat at work, bro. I mean, uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Well, yeah, safety-wise, you might you might end up in Davenport, but so that's the point.

SPEAKER_02

We started this conversation with how the hell did a body move 35 nautical miles in the direction opposite of what we'd expect it to move in five days? With the speculation being, okay, there's some shit we don't know about this ocean. Right, right. So then for us to come here and say, oh, this one thing changed, therefore, there's just a big catastrophic change.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Not a marine biologist. Yeah. There's definitely people that in that field that have forgotten more than I know about marine biology.

SPEAKER_01

But I was like, eh. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

That's a slippery slope.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. So boating just in general. You know, boat life. It's been such a big part of your life. What's the magic? Like, like what I I I mean, I still look at that trip that we went to Catalina as like major highlight in life. Good. Like right up up there with up there with childbirth. Like it it was that was a good trip. It was a good trip. You guys got the full show. Yeah, and and uh got to see something in a way that that most humans will never even have the opportunity to approach. So just a very special moment. But that life, that's something you've embraced. You know what for the audience uh what are people like who float on the water? You know, it it's it it's uh I always joke around that that you know, commercial fishermen are contractors that can't work with other people. Uh it's it's it's it's a unique group. You know, most of my commercial guys that I know spend a lot of time alone. Oh, yeah. You know, they're they're alone out in a vessel, out in the middle of nowhere, you know, barely see the top of of uh of you know the highest mountain we have here. You know, I I've I've been to the Outer Bay once, and God, I just wanted to get back. Like it was scary to watch California disappear behind you, other than one little mountain peak. And but there's a lifestyle out there that is just so magic, but it attracts particular kinds of people. What what is it like?

Big Water Humility And Prep

SPEAKER_02

It attracts everybody. Uh you could find every type of person with uh with a pote. We we interact, yeah. We see a a very wide swath of uh the boating community with Tobat. Uh it's wealthy, it's not so much. Uh every personality defect in the book. Good, bad, otherwise, it's everybody. Uh if you're sitting in traffic and you look all all all the people around you, the fancy cars, the rundown cars, off-road vehicles, it's that they're all they all buy boats too. Um yeah, there's some um Yeah, when you're on a boat and you are in command of a boat, yeah, there's definitely something isolating about it. You are um you're in charge of your own survival in a very big way. Yes, we have Coast Guard. Yes, we have uh lifeguards, fire department, and all of those departments are very marine focused. Not maybe not marine focused, but they uh have marine specializations because of where we live. But quite frankly, if you get in a boat and you leave Santa Cruz Harbor, and you're on you're not on your own, but you are responsible for your own well-being. You if you didn't do your maintenance or didn't bring the right equipment or if you made a mistake, yeah, there are some resources around you, but it's not like just pulling over the side of the road, putting the car in park and getting out and making a phone call, right? The boat sinks. Yeah. Right? The nearest Coast Guard station is in Monterey. They have a helicopter. I'm sure you know you would see some sort of help within 30 minutes, depending on where you're at. Well, the average water temperature of average 12-month water temperature, what, 60 degrees? Yeah.

unknown

Right?

SPEAKER_02

This time of year should be in the mid-50s. Your life expense can be exposed, is not long. Um God forbid, you know, you get yourself into rough weather, the boat sink, catch fire, end up on rocks, or whatever. Um so yeah, there's uh a certain degree of yeah, I'm I'm maybe isolation, but right now the best person available to help me is me. The nearest resource is a boat ride, at best, a helicopter ride away. Uh yeah, so if you're commercial fishing and you're well offshore, right, your preparation started months in advance, making sure all your equipment's working, your safety equipment, communication equipment, weather forecasting, all that kind of stuff. And I've never been a commercial fishing fisherman, just I'm uh not speaking from experience there, but just general uh boat experience. Yeah, so if if the perception of commercial fishing is fishermen is yeah, they're a little independent. Yeah, it makes sense. You have to be, yeah, you have to be. Yeah. Um and the Coast Guard is fantastic, yeah, right? They are on it, they know what's happening, they can they have their protocols. Uh, that is a well-run department. Um, but geography is geography. They can they can only respond as quickly as the information comes through and the quality of that information. Um, so yes. Uh there's a degree of independence, isolation, and all that. And as far as yeah, the the type of personalities that will that come down the launch ramp or out of a harbor slip, it's all of them.

Storm Surges And Harbor Chaos

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and and for those of you who don't own a boat, haven't been around a boat in any way. For the I think the vast, well, not maybe not the vast majority, for the majority of people, their experience is gonna be on a lake. Lakes have their own dynamic. You know, there's certainly more people that are gonna be doing that sort of recreating, you know, where where you know you're in a you're in a small slice of water compared to what we're talking about. Monterey Bay is a fairly confined bay, but like it, it's it's big water out there once you're there. It does it doesn't take long to figure out that, you know, and that this is still my panic button. This is like I have a love-hate relationship with with being on boats, uh, because I've been around boats my whole life. But you know, once once we get to that mile buoy, my anxiety level just is it skyrockets. Like, I don't know if I can swim that far. It it it's it's a whole different thing. And you know, unlike a car, there is no car wash. You know, there is no gas station, there is no next brakes. Yeah, there's there's there's yeah, there's there's no there's no creature comforts unless you brought them or you bought them, and you better know how to operate the thing that you bought, because if you bought creature comforts, that's an even larger vessel that you have to take care of. And the amount of prep is is absurd.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you know type December 23rd, 2024, Santa Cruz Harbor into Google or YouTube and look at what happened to Santa Cruz Harbor that day. And and that's in the harbor.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

unknown

Right?

SPEAKER_02

The swell event just tore the harbor apart. It's not that's not a happy, happy boating day, right? If you're just cruising up and down the harbor. Haven't even left the harbor yet. The boats are in the house.

SPEAKER_04

I got a ticket that day. Got a ticket? No, I got a parking ticket that day. Yeah, I was at the harbor. You know, I was there with you.

SPEAKER_02

I wasn't there.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, you weren't there?

SPEAKER_02

No, I I missed that whole thing. You missed the whole thing? I was visiting family because it's Christmas.

SPEAKER_04

You know, the the the boys lost a boat that day.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, did they?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The great one on that surge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Is that boat gone?

SPEAKER_04

No. Well, the the the It sunk. Mont Monty came. I guess it was Monty I ran into.

SPEAKER_01

Am I talking about the same boat?

SPEAKER_04

Put these guests.

SPEAKER_01

Oh.

SPEAKER_04

Huh?

SPEAKER_01

No. The swell event.

SPEAKER_02

Different day.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, that was a flood day.

SPEAKER_02

The one time. So you came, yeah. I remember you came down. I was there. Yeah. That was years ago. Christmas Eve day.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no. It might be two different stories. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Stuff happens.

SPEAKER_02

Um the big swell last December. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Tore apart the harbor. Yeah. Right? The boys were real busy. Yeah. Lifeguards.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I heard, but we were reading inside the bay, 20 feet at 20 seconds or something ridiculous like that.

SPEAKER_04

So that that surge was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02

Inside the harbor.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Ocean's a little dangerous.

Goals, Ownership, And Identity

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. Does not care. Does not care. Yeah. All right. Um so you know, you you you've you've talked around this a bit. There are some things that you look forward to in the future. Uh you've chosen to live here in Santa Cruz. Like this this is the spot, you know, to raise your kids. What are you driving towards? You know, like what like what what's what's the thing that that really captures your imagination for the future?

SPEAKER_03

Here you know what's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_02

I think having taken ownership of Toubou in Santa Cruz. Like, I can't believe I'm here. I don't I mean staring down the barrel of 40 years old. Getting old, Anthony.

SPEAKER_04

Got grain happy.

SPEAKER_02

Gray, my back hurts. Um happily married. Own a small home. Small home. Have two boys. Happy, healthy. Building a career?

SPEAKER_01

Quite frankly, I'm building a career fucking around the boat. Yeah.

From Hobbies To Calling

SPEAKER_02

Uh yeah. Reached the first reached the horizon of my first round of dreams on that. Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot. So growing up, three main hobbies. Um surfing, hockey, fishing. Come to realize in the last maybe in the last year, I kind of like, well, because for whatever reason, uh post-COVID, start having start having kids May of 2020, peak COVID. I really haven't. I've surfed more in the last two weeks than I have in the last the prior four years combined. Just because of raising kids and building a business and all that. What was weird is I don't didn't miss it. Same thing with fishing, same thing with hockey. Like I really haven't done any of that stuff. And all of a sudden, what's weird to me is I don't miss it. And I'm sorry, am I depressed? Like, what's going on? Like, is this a psychological thing? What this is we I I've been for the last year, I've been trying to figure that out. Why don't I miss it? Then the other side of that is okay, well, build my own business, running my own show, doing it with boats, married house kids. Maybe those hobbies were just a proxy. Maybe it wasn't hockey and surfing, maybe all maybe it was boats the whole time. And when I didn't maybe because I didn't recognize that or didn't have always have access to it, maybe those were just filling the gap. Maybe I should have been doing this boat thing the whole time. Um quite frankly, the option of going fishing right now. Alright, run a toe. No problem. I'd rather go run a toe. I ran a toe this morning.

SPEAKER_04

Why? Why run a toe? Run. Yeah. Uh I mean, money aside, there there's like a Yes. Look, I've known Anthony for a long time, his his whole adult life. You know, that there's there's been different maciations of you in this process, you know, of the human that you are. And you know, you know I love you and like a son. Like a toe. Like like what is that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm I haven't been able to directly put my finger on it. Um what I'm that's kind of funny. My mom had this, I had a bin of all the we have I have two two siblings, younger sister, younger brother. My mom would had kept like our old artwork, kindergarten artwork, right? All through grade school, she kept in these bins. Um and she was clearing all that out. And she's like, all right, I've held on to this stuff long enough. There, you guys can have it. Right. So we got this bin. So we got it to our house. Carrie was looking through it. She's kind of like flipping through my old artwork. Like, dude, this whole boating thing has been a deal for you since you were in my kindergarten. Like, what the fuck, dude? Every single thing is about fishing, right? Every little drawing or doodle or word or whatever just has something to do about boats or fishing.

SPEAKER_01

Oh shit, man, it kinda is.

SPEAKER_02

So that's obviously always been a theme.

SPEAKER_03

Um I think, and now that that's manifesting in towing, I in order to get me going, you gotta give me something that's intellectually difficult.

Mastering The Craft Of Towing

SPEAKER_02

There's gotta be a little bit of risk. There's gotta be a little bit of adrenaline. Um if you can mix in some water, that's ideal, that helps. Um yeah, I think those are the three main factors. And and you know what, if if if you're helping somebody out, that helps too. I like that. And then now, now the if I can help support my family with it, that's a requirement. Yeah. I I um and I mean that typically benefits in some sort of financial benefit, but I gotta I gotta be able to, and there's other benefits, I gotta be able to support my family doing it. Yeah. Um if you take, let's say, take surfing and hockey. Um there's some intellectual components there, right? Hockey is a very mental sport and it's very fast. So yeah, um fast, intellectual. Um, I could say the ice is water. Um surfing is similar. The draw for me, I I yeah, I've just been so unmotivated to go surfing. It's like, well, what the hell was the draw originally? Um the progression was the draw.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I'm gonna go down the beach, I'm gonna do a roundhouse. I'm gonna do a full roundhouse today. Or I'm gonna do top turn. Um similar hockey, right? A new way of handling a puck, um, a new way of defending, whatever. Some sort of progression. But then I got to a point of uh reached a level in both of those hobbies where you know what? I'm I'm not gonna go pro. That's your peak. Yeah, I'm not I'm I'm not gonna I'm not going into the NHL and I'm not getting into the WSL. So I'm not I'm not interested. I'm losing interest. Um losing the interest to losing the desire to compete. Uh I'll compete in hockey, but not that's just because you have to. Um in any of those other and I've and with fishing, I've had the opportunity to work on sport fishing boats as a deck hand. Um never had the desire to advance. Never had the desire to really captain a sport fishing boat or a whale watching boat. Um quite frankly, I want to be the best motherfucker at towing that there was. Right? There's some competition. Monty Ash left some really big shoes to fill. Um and thank God for him being my mentor. Um I could see myself quote unquote competing, really in the way I'm competing as myself. But the progression, I I can see endless progression in that department. It's that it's all of it. It's tactical, it's mental.

Santa Cruz Drive, Disguised As Chill

SPEAKER_04

Um let's sit here for just a second and and we'll we'll get to closing this out. There's a competitive nature that Santa Cruz hosts uniquely. And and uh you haven't been listening to my podcast, but there's just been this theme that uh I believe that Santa Cruz is the place where the most competitive people come to relax. That that it's like we're trying to mellow ourselves out, that's why we're here. But the competitive nature of Santa Cruz is like all the way at the top, and nobody knows that they're being competitive because they moved here because to mellow out in some way. They're trying to be different than they were. And uh this sits in that thread of this certain reality of almost everybody I meet. It's this odd competition. And yeah, how do you think Santa Cruz plays host to that a little bit? You know, because uh again, uh you know, ha having watched you quote unquote grow up, I guess, is is is the best way to put it. And you know, we've we've coached together, we've done things together, you know, we've we we've been in a lot of dynamic atmospheres where where that competitive nature is you know, it's it's good, it kind of gets hidden in the nature of whatever it is we're doing. Yeah, you know, but it but it lives inside of you like deeply. Like the last thing in the world I would expect to hear from you is what I just heard, which is like I want to be the best damn tow boat operator ever in Santa Cruz County. But but it's but it speaks to this thread of like the this intrinsic desire of the people here who just want to be the best at their thing. And somehow this town seems to be that spot where that can happen.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and the competition. I mean, competition is not the right word. It's not the right word because it I'm not really definition, I'm not necessarily competing against somebody else, but the progression, the desire for progression is totally there. And for me.

SPEAKER_04

Well, be the best version of you. What's that? To be the best version of you. Yeah. You know, and and you can are there to rescue people from a real bad day. Yeah. Um A lot's on the line when you show up.

SPEAKER_02

We take on a substantial amount of risk doing what we do. Um we could absolutely hurt somebody, we could break something, we could, we could there's times when there are there are cases, there are phone calls where I'd say, you know what, I need to hang up right now, and I need to call the Coast Guard. Because right now your situation is it's no longer just I'm towing you. Your situation right now is you you're you're in peril. Okay, so I need to turn we need to call the Coast Guard. So there are for me to progress, to be the best version of myself in this department, to be able to serve people effectively, run a boat effectively, manage a crew effectively, because now I'm an employer, support them, allow them to be the best version of themselves, give them a spot to grow and progress, a foundation. And all the while. I love what I do so much, I'd almost go do it for f for with without financial gain, but now I'm accountable to I'm almost entirely accountable to three people, my wife and two kids. The people who I share dinner dinner table with. So And also your staff, it sounds like a little bit. I am, yes, I'm accountable to supporting them, yes. So yes. Um yeah, competition is not necessarily the right word. Progression, development, um continuing to serve the community, this community, our client base professionally, continuing to make bad situations better, and the financial accountability that I hold with my family to provide a life for them while doing it. I swayed a little bit from your question. I don't know if I can't.

SPEAKER_04

No, no, no, you you answered it. You know, it it's it's how does Santa Cruz create that backdrop?

SPEAKER_00

So then my both my base and problem is that becoming feet, how many quantities of that of that is a few.

Mentors, Gratitude, And Close

SPEAKER_02

I don't know. Um what I would say is this the the group of people that you know of that are competitive, like you describe, I'd like to meet. Because I can't say that I meet a whole lot of people that are as I feel are as driven as I am in this department. I'm really driven in this whole tobo thing. Your boys.

SPEAKER_04

I think everybody around you is as driven as we just all try to hide it. Yeah, then maybe I don't see it. I'd love to be more aware. Yeah, it's it it's a it's a funny it's a funny I I I I think it's the the disguise we wear, right? Like if somebody comes and meets you, they're never gonna know how driven you are. They would have to see you in the zone. Yeah. And we just all happen to have our little zones. You know, that that that's really the I'd be. If I'm making the statement, which is kind of what what I've I've set you up for, not in a fair way necessarily, is that I think that Santa Cruz is a great disguise for all of us. That we can appear a particular way, but really no. You know, we're those driven people who want to do what's right in our spot. And we get to live in this place that seems mellow and there's nothing mellow about it, really. Uh yeah. Okay. It just has has this. Santa Cruz is a it has it has a persona. Yeah, you you think it's this way, but no, you don't know. You don't know what you don't know. And if you don't recognize the drivenness in everybody's eyes, just to survive here.

SPEAKER_02

That's true. And yes. And now that I think yeah, I can think of some actually very driven people that I interact with fairly often now that I think about it. Yeah, we do kind of act we don't intermingle, do we? A lot.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you know, and I I've certainly had, you know, the my last few previous conversations is kind of about how siloed Santa Cruz has become. And we we we've we've we've gone into some areas where where that might be true, and you know, that's different than other regions, but it's not the easiest thing to have have a dinner with a friend here. And some of that's just the personality arch. Yeah. It's it's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Another thing, yeah. I can actually no, I can think of more and more people I know that are very trip and but yes, you're right. You wouldn't necessarily see that day in, day out by talking to them. But yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, like just about all of them. Yeah. Now that the faces are that I think about it. Yeah, yeah, it's it's pretty funny. Well, Anthony. There's a few things I want to say to you, just just as a human, you know, who who you've been, you know, what what we've watched you become. Not just the human, but the dad, the husband, you know, the the the being that you have purposed yourself to be. You know, we don't often get to spend the amount of time you know that we we would naturally have together. Too driven. Yeah, you're way too driven. You weren't too. I was too. I don't get to um I don't get to remove myself from that from that part. But that being said, it's been fun to watch you, you know, just kind of become this thing that was just living in your imagination. Because I remember you being 20, talking about I don't know, I just wanted to be on a boat. Yeah. And like here you are, you know. I don't know, I just want to meet a good woman. There she is. You know, I want to be the best dad I can be. And here you are, you know, like like it's it's a really you know, on this side of the age thing, to see its genesis, you know, what you left, what you came to, what you left again, and then came back to again. It's been really fun to watch you turn into the person that you want to be, and it's a real privilege to have you as a friend, you know, and and and I know I I get to live in in mentor role a little bit, but that's not where we're at anymore. You know, like like you've you are your own person, and it's just been really fun to see the person you become and and be able to look back and go, yeah, you know, I got to be around that early.

SPEAKER_02

I am very fortunate that through each stage or each thing that I've been that I've learned have been in the process of learning throughout my life, I had a really great mentor.

unknown

So this one.

SPEAKER_02

And I've had a lot of them. Um and you and Kim were hands down one of the most influential. Yeah. Like I would not would not be here. Come on. Yeah. Right? You met me at 18, 19. Yeah. I I'm not exactly sure where I would be. Would not be here. Yeah. If it weren't for you, Kim, and your three boys. Yeah. Yeah. I I've been very fortunate to but I'm here because I'm I'm standing on a lot of big shoulders. Yeah. And the Howard family is one of the most influential, one of the biggest sets of shoulders that I get to stand on.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Well, we love you. Me too. And you know, I'm always have trouble cueing the music up. That's all right. Once it's all over. But thanks for coming. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you. You all have a good rest of your day. You can listen to Nate Mendelssohn and Elite Technique here on the way out the door. Yes, C stand up, baby.

SPEAKER_00

Sometimes I feel like I'm about to break down first. I can't relax with the fakes around. Got a represent for who supports me.