Unpacked In Santa Cruz
"Unpacked in Santa Cruz" is a homegrown podcast hosted by Michael Howard that dives into the lives, stories, and salty moments of people who call this coastal community home—or have been shaped by it in some way. Whether it's a deep conversation with local surfers opening up about mental health, or a peek behind the curtain of someone who started a one-of-a-kind food spot right here in town, every episode brings something real.
You’ll hear from folks who found healing behind the lens, built businesses from scratch, or chased massive waves thanks to a lifetime spent around our local waters. These aren’t just interviews—they’re conversations that reflect the heart and soul of Santa Cruz. Raw, reflective, and rooted in community, Unpacked in Santa Cruz brings local voices to the surface.
Unpacked In Santa Cruz
Episode 86: John Barrs: A Santa Cruz Housing Reality Check, What Affordable Housing Really Costs A Community
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Santa Cruz is one of those places that can feel like vacation and crisis at the same time. We sit down with John Barrs owner of Ideal Homes, to talk about what it’s really like to live, commute, raise kids, and run a local business in a county where Highway 1 is jammed, new buildings rise fast, and “affordable housing” can still mean $5,500 rent for a two-bedroom.
We get personal first, from surf panic stories to the day-to-day reality of being a girl dad and watching childhood fly by. Then we go straight into the money and logistics behind family life: travel sports costs, the unexpected moment a kid rides a horse once and suddenly the whole household budget changes, and why so many working families feel like they’re sprinting just to stay in place.
The heart of the conversation is manufactured housing and mobile home communities in Santa Cruz County. We unpack the stigma, what these homes actually look like today, and why this is an overlooked piece of the affordable housing puzzle. John breaks down how financing works when a home is personal property, the difference between lease land, co-ops, and land-owned parks, and why the down payment is often the biggest barrier, not the monthly payment.
We also talk ADUs, permitting delays, expensive reports, and the kind of red tape that turns “we need housing” into years of waiting and tens of thousands in fees and the term affordable as a political slogan is often times just lip service to a community heading into crises. If you care about Santa Cruz housing, workforce housing, and realistic solutions, this one will hit home. Subscribe, share this with a friend who cares about local housing, and leave a review with your take: what would you fix first?
Going Live And Phone Habits
SPEAKER_02Once I put them in there, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know uh it it it's funny all the things we miss in those in those spaces.
SPEAKER_02Dude, if I ever go to jail, I can only call 911 because I know nobody's gonna be there at all. Nobody's everybody can't. I remember my dad's phone had to do this at the code at the house I grew up in. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I still got that one.
SPEAKER_02He's not gonna build me.
SPEAKER_01Well, we're actually live right now, Joe. I am your host. Oh, I turned that music down way too much. You guys heard a weird related already. I'm sitting here with John Barrers. I ain't no G in the Ghee in the key, and all that you see in the game. I haven't been around for a little bit. You guys haven't heard any podcast for six weeks. But here we are, John Barr. We were discussing uh how we are uh in our phones. You are John Ashley's husband, and I am Mike Hare. Hare Mike. Oh, John.
Santa Cruz Weather And Surf Panic
SPEAKER_01You've been here for a little bit, but what's the first thing you think of when you think of Santa Cruz now?
SPEAKER_02Weather.
SPEAKER_01Weather.
SPEAKER_02Love the weather. Yeah. Not a beach guy. Not like, you know, I want to load up all my crap and go drive down to the beach and unload it and sit there. Uh I wish I was. I like to walk the dogs like on over a sea cliff and on concrete. But I'm not a sand guy. Don't mind if I'm in Mexico having some drinks under the palapa. But we don't, you know, but the weather is what, you know, is the the scenery, you know, it's beautiful. Uh but not a beach guy, I just don't get in the ocean. Tried surfing once. I failed tremendously. Used to live on 38 and East Cliff. Yeah. I could literally walk down the steps and do on the water, but I never did. You know. Uh I uh yeah, I had I went out one time and it was way too big, but my buddy talked me into it, and I had never surfed before. And I got stuck in sunny cove and couldn't get or not sunny cove, yeah. I couldn't get out. These waves just kept coming, they didn't stop. One of those friends. I could not get uh oh, it's called perverse, I think. Yeah, perverse purge, and I couldn't get over to the steps, man. And panic starts to set in, you know, and trying to figure out when we're gonna start having fun. It just wasn't happening, you know. But I just and I didn't understand surfing, you know. It was like I lived right there in the in the two-story of you know apartments right there, and these guys would roll in at like five in the morning and start waxing their boards. Yeah, and I'm like, you can't do that at home. Like, yeah, I don't understand why you gotta do it right here, you know. But I play golf, so you can golf anytime. So I kind of learned a little bit about surfing. There's a swell that you have to follow because you don't just go out when it's flat, right? So if it's cranking in the morning, that's when you gotta go. But I didn't understand, you know, at five in the morning why you go get in the ocean in the first place.
SPEAKER_01But the waves are going, and you know, these guys were out there at five waxing their boards, and and it was just really loud, and yeah, but it's funny, it's funny you say that because you know, when we were in transition there selling the house, we we were looking at a house right on point. Yeah, and uh we were there for two seconds, and Kim was just like, no, no way, like just the the the amount of people surrounding your house every day. And I'm like, nobody's looking in, babe. She's like, No, there's a thousand people here, and at least one person's looking.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. No, it's dude, and then they park wherever they want, yeah. There's no permit just really right there. It was like it's like, dude, that's my front yard, man. Like, yeah, uh, but no, the parking's brutal, but it's beautiful. I mean, I I get it now. I didn't understand it before. Um, didn't understand surfing, but you know, I I get it. I mean, it looks fun to do. Um, you know, it's it's just uh it's just not for me. Yeah, you know, maybe someday, but not happening yet.
Central Valley Roots And Tule Fog
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself where you from, you know, um born in Torrance down by LA, moved to Visilia 1976. Uh my father still lives there. I uh went to school Fresno State. I uh moved to Santa Cruz in 98. Okay, and never lived back. I just be from the Central Valley, the heat, the fog, uh, air quality and uh Tully fog. Tully fog in the middle of winter. We don't have fog here. No. When they say it's foggy, it's it's it's this isn't fog. Yeah. Uh when they cancel school, so when we were a kid, you turn on channel 18. And we'd have fog delays. So school would start an hour later, and then they would update you on channel 18, and you knew when the second fog delay came, they were gonna cancel school. So that's when the excitement started happening. Right. You know what I mean? So it's like you look out the door, literally you can't see the house across the street. And then the buses can't go. That's the problem. Yeah. And then I also learned that if you're ever in the Central Valley, the telephone poles, when you get up to a stop sign, there's gonna be three uh reflectors on the first one, two on the next one, one on the one before the stop sign. So that's how you notice a stop sign coming up. Oh, good just to look at the reflector. Look for the reflectors. It's a good tip. You know, you don't want to go blowing through the stop sign. Uh, you know, and and and uh the fog's real. This is not fog. Yeah, no, at all. Uh but then moved here in '98. Um, just fell in love with it. Um, actually started in Felton and lived in the Redwoods, which is not for everybody.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh I'd see the sun once a day when it's just directly over the top. And everything was wet. Like, I mean, year-round. Yeah. Like we had two dehumidifiers in the apartment we were in just to pull the moisture out of the air. I mean, it was just crazy wet, but beautiful up there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then uh, yeah, then I uh moved to Moss Landing and uh I liked it out there, it was quiet. But the traffic that Highway One, as everyone knows, is just brutal. Yeah. Um but yeah, just never looked back. I I just enjoyed living here. Yeah, you know, the traffic is gnarly, but yeah, it is what it is. Yeah. I mean, you know, they're working on it, but supposedly were you not hanging out alive. Yeah, I mean, these walking bridges are rad. I don't see anybody go over them yet, but um, you know, and whoever designed them, they didn't think it through the uh the graphics. I don't know, like the Capitola one, you don't even it you can't even tell what it says until you're right on top of it. Like it doesn't, I mean, and then the whales they just blend in, you don't even know what that is until you get on top of it. Who knows what they're gonna do on Mar Vista? I know. I mean, the tree thing is cool on the on the like uh the kit if you see whatever that street that is in the frontier there. Um, have you seen it yet? It's got the trees in it, you know. But the wall facing the highway is just gonna be graffitied on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, have you seen what they've done? Like they got this government paint that doesn't even match the wall, yeah. And they're just painting over, they just paint, just paint the whole thing that color. Yeah, yeah. There's gotta be some kind of material that scrape paint doesn't stick to, buddy. I mean, we just send people to around the moon and we don't have a material that people can't graffiti on, spend a little extra money. I just don't get it. Like they're just they're canvases, that's all they are, you know. And I get it. If you've ever taken the train, um my daughter, we went to uh go up to the Capitol building with her class. If you've never taken the train, you know, if you're trying to sell somebody on Come to California, don't take the train. Oh my gosh. Like when we got back from Sacramento, I actually was gonna invest into a spray paint company because there is so much spray paint going on down the deal. You should see these buildings.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good just look local spray paint in Sacramento.
SPEAKER_02I just want to know how they get to them. Like, I mean, they scale these buildings and it's just amazing. I mean, some of the artwork's incredible, don't get me wrong. Yeah, but it's the climbing that that really it impressed me the most. Like, how would you physically get there? I don't understand, you know, unless they have like a like a pole with a can on it and they can do it from the ground, but I was just beyond impressed with the hype and the the scaling of it. Yeah. Um yeah.
Highway 1 Traffic And Merge Rage
SPEAKER_02You know, I just live in aftos. Um so I commute, you know, call it a commute, it's only five miles. It'd take you an hour. And these these apps now, this ways and crap, you know, you don't have to be from around here to know the frontage road. They don't want you jumps on them, and you know, and then the funny thing is that the app's taking everyone to the same place, right? So we're all getting off, and then I mean, you just do the log jam, and then you know, so kills the new highway one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, no, I I I well, you know, I'm new to this cabinet, right? Living in South County.
SPEAKER_02Oh, how is it? You enjoyed it, buddy?
SPEAKER_01My wife and I are constantly debating, you know, what what what's what's that uh what's that road right off San Andreas that you can take to uh to get to uh uh freedom. Uh no, not freedom, uh uh bonito. Oh yeah. I mean, this this little thing, and she's she's always like telling me, oh, you know, you should go seascape this time or go bonito, and like no. I'm like, no. I go to the freeway and I sit and I wait till I get to State Park Drive, and that's when everybody gets angry. Yeah, but up until that point, like everybody's pretty happy, you know, and the traffic's kind of worse behind State Park, which is what's hilarious. Yeah, well, but but for whatever reason, you know, it gets it gets urgent at State Park. That that's the one thing I know.
SPEAKER_02Well, because everyone realized they didn't leave early enough. That's that's our debate within the morning with my wife. I'm like, hey, we gotta go, like, we gotta get the kids to this place at a certain because my wife's kind of like, yeah, we'll get there when we get there. I'm like, no, they the bus leaves, like it's going to leave, it doesn't stay. Like, we gotta be there. So we're and here I go, get long ways because I live in Dave Valley. So I could either go Valencia or I could go freedom. Um, but when school's in an Aptos High, it's just you know, it's a parking lot, yeah. And then trying to get through, and then getting on to freedom um is Marty. Yeah. Okay. So let me tell you this. So I I I I follow the rules pretty good. Yeah. Like I do speed, not gonna lie. Yeah, but I follow the rules. Okay, so everyone's in the right-hand lane, you know, and then it merges onto the onto the highway, so you get on the on-ramp. And then this asshole goes flying by and cuts in at the top. Right. No, no, listen to this. I was so mad one day that I flipped a UE and went to the high patrol station and I knocked on the door. You can't just walk in. Knock on the door, they come out. I said, Is there an officer I could talk to real quick? Yeah. Bring one out. I said, I gotta ask you a question. I'm in the the correct lane, which I think is the correct lane to get onto the freeway. And this guy comes going by me flying because that lane's wide open, because no one's going southbound. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone's going north. And he cuts in it top. And I said, Is that legal? He goes, It is. And I hate to tell these people this. It's he goes, it's a dick move, but it's legal. And I said, Well, wait a minute, you wouldn't give this person a ticket? He said, No, it's actually legal as long as they don't do anything aggressively or cause you know something to happen, you can do that. So for everybody that lives in Day Valley, Watsonville coming in, I know it's frustrating as all get out, but that guy beat us all to work. Okay, he beat us all. I promise you that. I was I was so frustrated. So now, but I still sit in the right lane because I like I said, I don't want to be that guy. And uh, you know, you see the same people. Yeah, we all live together. Yeah, I see the same cars, the same area. So, man, I you know, I don't want to flip anybody off or something because I'm gonna see them tomorrow. You know what I mean? I stand out like a sore thumb, yeah. You know, it's not like I have a Honda. I mean, dude, it's gnarly. So yeah, we sit with everybody. I'm I waved at people, I didn't even know, and but I see you every day. Yeah. Um, yeah, but yeah, you know, this road thing that they've been working on, I swear, for five years. I just don't see like they've been building these walls and stuff, but I don't see the the work on the road.
SPEAKER_01I just don't see it. Yeah, yeah. No, it's because we've had those barriers up and like what's once or twice a week. Dude, it's nuts. It's like there's an accident that the freeway shut down for and there's nowhere to go.
SPEAKER_02You're gonna know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, southbound, right before you get to State Park, there's this weird little jog that someone didn't put the cones in the right spot and the wall. So you're flying down there, it's almost like 41st.
SPEAKER_01You know, you go down 41st is that weird right odd clears right in front of Rudy's.
SPEAKER_02You gotta turn like a little, and then the lane's kind of like, whoa, what happened there? I can't believe someone hasn't smoked that thing out. Like there's this little job that if you're not paying attention, the lane doesn't go straight, it has a little S in it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's just nuts, but yeah, every morning the uh the I mean that's my route, right? I just I always get jammed up by some old lady that just refuses to let you merge. Well, I know you're going to the spa, or you know, because that's where they're I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna let you in. Well, no chance. It's it's natural merging, right? They just like close the gap.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I'm not a gapper. I'm on your tailgate. We're we're not in the way. No, no, because you know, it's it's like the one person in line at the grocery store that you kind of you have 10 items and they have one. You're like, go ahead, ma'am, go ahead and get in front of me. And then she freaked out this like third-party check she's trying to cash. And you're like, oh, and then they're calling a manager, you know, and like, oh no, this is and then what do I do? Do I say get back in line? It's like, no, I gotta sit there, and I just wasted 20 minutes of my life. And I tell the person behind me, anytime I'm in line, I said, Don't get behind me. Yeah, something's gonna happen. Do not get behind me because there's gonna be something's gonna happen. Okay, I promise you that. So just go to the other line, even though it's longer, you will beat me out of the story. I promise you.
Marriage, Kids, And Park Pet Peeves
SPEAKER_02So you're married, John. Yes, I am married. My lovely wife, Ashley. She's beautiful. Uh, we got two girls, uh 10 and 12, going on 20 and 22. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. Oh, yeah. You know, they just uh my 12-year-old would move out tomorrow if I'd let her. She's so independent, you know. And then my youngest is just, you know, just loves her mom. Yeah. Like, just unbelievable. They're they're just attached, you know. And my youngest is gonna be pissed when she finds out I cut the bill accord. She knew she could still be attached to her. Like, why did you do that? Like, I mean, she just is a mama's girl. I've never seen anything like it. You know, it's just she's just they're they're they're they're identical. I'm basically married to three different ages of Ashley. It's like the I mean, they're I the household full of women. Oh man, I uh but I was meant to be a girl dad. Yeah, because they don't have the energy for boys. Yeah, I just don't have it. Yeah, like we go to the park, you know, and my girls are playing in the sand with their dolls, and the boys are bouncing off the rails, you know, jumping from one to the thing. Going up the slide the wrong way was pisses me off. Like, come on, man. There's a lineup there. Don't walk back up the slides, right? You look over their parents are on their phone. I'm like, dude, tell you, you know, what's going on with your kid here. So yeah, I've had some issues at the park, not gonna lie. Let's just say there's a few parts I can't go to, right? John has issues. You know, I'm just that guy. I just gotta say it. You know, it's like the brain just tells the mouth what to do real quick, and the mouse shouldn't have said it, but it did. And uh, you know, just but yeah, I was meant to be a girl dad. Just uh, you know, I just don't have the energy for the boys. There's that. Oh Jesus. But they're good. The girls are gonna get me later. I know that. I know that for a fact, you know. But uh God's gonna be their boyfriend and they're gonna be at the nuttery. That's great. They don't know it yet, but that's just that's the plan. And I'm gonna be in Mexico, I'm gonna say right now. Uh yeah, that's yeah, I've been uh you know married with how are we going on let's see, 2012? What are we 14 years this year? Yeah, yeah. Goes fast, buddy. Yeah, it does. I mean, flies. Like, I'm not kidding. You you you get up Monday, and all of a sudden it's Wednesday, and then Friday is like we do kind of half days on Friday. Yeah. So it's just boom, and then we're out. And you know the weekend, and then the weekend flies.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And the next day, oh, it's Monday, and here we go again.
Travel Sports Costs And Horses
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, uh uh Kim just ran into a longtime friend of ours, and and and they're hitting the uh the comp soccer moments, you know, where the travel really begins. And oh, and you know, yeah, the money. Well, it it it's it's just the whole thing, right? You know, and and and you know, she could tell she was frazzled and and uh you know, they're having a little quick conversation at the grocery store or new leaf or something like that, and and uh you know, just listening, you know, to like, oh my gosh, you know, I'm driving everywhere every weekend. And yeah, you know, it's like we're driving a thousand miles a weekend to do this thing. And and she goes, How did you handle it? And you know, Kim just looks at her and goes and goes, like, if I could roll back time and go be in that car and do all those things over again, I'd just be jettler and just enjoy like it goes fast. Yeah, I mean, like it it's I mean, it's so hard when you're in the middle of it. Yeah, you know, because like the time drain, just all the stuff is just you gotta be a bunch of places, but like it it's the best, dude.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, it and the expense people don't realize. Oh, yeah, yeah. Hotels, food, travel, gas, all that stuff, you know, but you're doing it for the kids, you know, there's a 99.9% chance that they're not gonna go pro.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, I know. So when when when we had Stella, my oldest, uh, our our accountant said, don't let her get into dance or horses. So when you started dance at four, yeah, right. So so we held us off, right? And uh, and then we had Vivian, and same same advice from our accountants, the only advice he gives us. And so, you know, we had like shown them books of horses like black and whites, like they were extinct, like dinosaurs. Like horses don't exist. So we eliminated that problem, right? And we go to Hawaii one time, and uh we have some friends over there that they they are way into horses, like their kids ride, and um they're the same age as our daughters. So we're at the hotel, and and they reach out and said, Hey, you mind if we take the kids and show the show on the island? I'm like, perfect. You know, just absolutely happen. My wife and I time just to hang out, you know, so that's great. So they go out, and next thing you know, about eight hours later, they come back, and both kids are just you have a grin from ear to ear, and I'm like, hey, what'd you guys do? And Stella looks at me, I'll never forget this. She goes, We rode horses. And I said, You did what? She said, We rode horses. And I'm like, why did you do that? And they're showing me video, and these kids are on these horses, and they're running around, and Stella's mucking a stall. I can't get that girl to clean her roof, but she can muck a stall like like no tomorrow. And then the next thing you know, Before we leave Hawaii, Ashley's booked uh uh like a uh horse class at that Pleasant Valley Horse Club out there off of uh Pleasant Valley. And I'm like, oh no. So then the checks start getting written. And I'm like, this is more than my first car. Wow, what's going on here? I mean, we don't own this horse. You're just paying me to get on top of it and go for a ride. And my youngest, she she didn't care for it as much as my oldest. My oldest is still doing my youngest quib, but uh, she just didn't like it. She's doing the volleyball stuff now. But my oldest, she lives at the barn. Yeah, I'm not kidding you. This kid, there's you know, and they're big animals. It scares the hell out of me. Yeah, but this kid just loves horses, you know. I mean, she's sending me horse stuff all the time, you know, and and uh I I'm I'm learning a little bit. I don't want to learn a lot about them um because I don't want to get involved with this stuff. Uh I have an addictive personality, and uh, you know, the next thing you know, you get the the truck and the the thing, all this you know, all this stuff gotta go buy one of them diesel boats. Oh, big old thing, you know, that yeah, but it it's pretty wild, you know. So then one day we're at home and she goes, Dad, you know what the dressage is? And I'm like, No, what's that? She goes, uh, it's basically horses that can dance. And I'm like, You tell me a horse can dance? And she's like, Yeah. I said, We can't even get Augie, our dog, to sit, and someone can teach a horse how to dance. And she's like, Yeah. So she puts on this video on YouTube, and it's this beautiful horse, black. I mean, the thing looks like a million bucks, and it probably is how many. And all of a sudden, ACDC back in black comes on. Oh my god. And this horse, it I swear to god, it smiled. Yeah, it was ready to go. Yeah, and it starts dancing. Yeah, and the the woman on top is not even moving, she's controlling with her legs. It's unbelievable. If you've never seen dressage, do yourself a favor and put on, just type in ACDC back in black, and you will be amazed on what this horse can do. Yeah, phenomenal. But my daughter's just she just loves horses and it's good. It's taught her a lot. You know, I've seen her change as a person, you know, she's got no responsibility. A horse, you know, you you have to you have to uh warm them up before you can ride, and then you gotta break them down. You can't just hop on and take off. There's a whole, I mean, if she's out there for four hours, she's only riding for an hour. Gotcha. I mean, there's a whole setup, all that stuff. And uh man, I'm out there on the driveway hosing off her jeans because there's horse crab all. Ash's like, that's not going in the washer, you know. So I'm out there, it's just, you know, in the boots, and I just, you know, it's gone. I'm happy for her, but my my checkbook's not.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
From Golf To Ideal Homes
SPEAKER_01I can imagine. So uh you actually own the local business too? Yep.
SPEAKER_02So my wife and I own ideal homes. Um, we I've been in the manufacturing owned business since 1998. Um, we started uh Ideal homes was started in in 20 uh 2001. Um we uh hopefully can provide affordable housing for the county. Yeah um but that's become more difficult, you know, because prices have gotten so high. I mean, I remember my first brand new manufactured home I sold in 1999 uh was 95,000. And that was, you know, it in in Santa Cruz County, there's no empty locks.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02So you have to buy the old home, take it out, put the new home in, and sell it. Uh and it was 95,000 bucks. Now you can't go find a space for 95,000. Yeah, you know, so it's just the the cost has gotten difficult. We're we're fortunate to have Santa Cruz Community Credit Union and Bay Federal, local companies that then understand manufactured homes and our housing problem. Yeah, because rocket mortgage isn't gonna lend on manufactured pillars in our community. You don't understand it, right? They're like, it's 500,000, there's no land.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh how does that work? You know, it's like, no, it's 500,000 plus they pay a space fee. They don't even own the land. So they can't wrap their head around it. So we're very fortunate in our business to have those two banks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Before we trip too far into that part of it, um let's let's talk about why Santa Cruz. You know, like you, you know, you live somewhere else, you know, clearly, you know, Santa Cruz has its own beauty in nature. But um, you know, what is it about this place that made you want to stay? What you you know, was it was it that you you you were just you know initially getting a job, or you know, what what were the things that that you looked around and said this place is home?
SPEAKER_02Um that's a good question. You know, basically uh again, going back uh growing up in the Central Valley and having the heat there, um, I'm I'm just the weather here is so perfect. And I I just you know, and the mountains, the ocean. I mean, you can go from the ocean and 15 minutes later being some of the tallest redwood trees in the world. You go up to Henry Cow, yeah, you know, and take that walk. Uh, where else are you gonna get that? Yeah, you know, it's just uh I mean basically it feels like you're on vacation every day. I mean, look where we're at. Yeah, you know, you just go down and go up on the cliff and look at the ocean or go into the mountains. If it's not sunny here, go five minutes into Watsonville and the sun's out, right? You know, I mean, it's just a a beautiful place to live. I just the affordability is gonna be a problem. Yeah. Um, and we're gonna get to that.
SPEAKER_01So so did did you um like did you travel here with when you were younger? Because a lot of my audience is gonna know, you know, the nature of you know how we're all laid out. But you know, when I grew up in Capitola, there was a really strong Central Valley connection. Like, you know, half the houses in front of where I was at in the jewel box were owned by Central Valley families for a hundred years. You know, you know, so there's this frequency that that that has happened here that's just been a part of my life, you know, that I, you know, you know, I see it. I don't really know these people, but they but they always frequent in here, you know, from April on to about, you know, uh September, October. Yeah. You know, what was there that kind of connection for you?
SPEAKER_02Or no, so there's two central valleys, there's northern and southern, right? So you have Stockton, which I is it's kind of where all Stockton comes here. If you live in Visalia, you go to Pismo, gotcha. So those are the two differences, right? It's just that's why you have Giants fans and you have Dodger fans, right? There's a fine line. And if you ever drag down 99, there's a palm tree and a I think it's a pine tree, and that's where southern and northern split. That's the dividing line. And it's near Madeira. Um, so we always grew up going to Pismo. Yeah, Cayucas, you know, those areas. I'd been over here before going, I went to the boardwalk a couple of times. Um, but this wasn't a place that we would go. It's just a shorter drive to go to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Pismo and Cayucas down here. So I didn't I didn't spend much time here. Um I did golf here a lot, going to Monterey and Pass of Tampo, um, but never really spent more time just, you know, other than just coming here for a couple of times. So on the golfing side, you you golf through high school or or just uh no, so yeah, I grew up um I started playing golf when I was five years old. Uh with my dad. And basically I see where my daughter gets the addiction because I was addicted to golf. And like that's all I did. And then I played in high school and then got a scholarship to Fresno State, and then played at Fresno State for three years, and then finished off at Sacramento State. Um, went out and had a small career. It's you know, basically didn't make much money, probably none really. Yeah. Spent a lot more. Yeah. Um, but no, yeah, so I went out and I was had a couple of sponsors. That's some guys that had some businesses down the Central Valley that sponsored me to go play a little bit. And went out and did that for about a year and a half, and just, you know, basically didn't make any money. So I realized early on that I needed to find a different career. You know, this one's gonna be a little tough. Uh and then uh I was still playing golf uh for a starving, I'd call it. Um when I moved here in '98, and that's how I got into the mobile home business. Soon I uh was moved in into Felton and uh and didn't didn't like kind of the where I was living because the the I never saw the sun. Yeah. And then so I was looking at the newspaper and found a a mobile home at Moss Landing for $37,000. And then I thought, wow, that's pretty cool. So I went to the local company, it was called Evanson O'Brien, used to be by the star of Siam there in the Soquel village, you know? And uh through the buying process, um the uh her name was Vicky, she was running the company there, uh asked me if I wanted to work there. And I said, How much can you make? And she throws out a number and it was a hell of a lot more than what I was making now. You know, I mean then I said, sure. So I went to work for her and uh kind of learned the formula, and then in 2001 I uh left their company and opened my own and been doing it ever since.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so let's segue a little bit into or as much as we want into that.
Manufactured Homes As Real Communities
SPEAKER_01Mobile homes, you know, are or you know, pre-fat homes now, like the manufactured homes. You know, is an interesting business. And and it it's you know, it's kind of this thing as as someone who's always lived in, you know, uh what I would consider a normal building, what whatever that means. Um mobile home parks are things we just drive by, right? Like we they're it's weird how they have kind of persona non drama wherever they are, like unless unless you're going there, you know, you don't know about it. And and of course, as I became an adult, you know, you you you're trying to get into an entry home, you know, you you see these things, but but it's a really unique space that that plays a key part, I think, of almost any community. And uh, you know, that particular space is really servicing a a clientele that that um you know we only hear about this in a negative way, right? You don't hear about about you know you know the crack spots here in town, but there there's a ton of mobile home parks here in town that that really serve a community that that needs to be served. And you know, there is a lot of talk about affordable housing, and and it it's weird to me that that that's never talked about. You know, that that there's there's never talk of mobile homes as affordable housing, yet you've been servicing a community here for for you know 28 years. That's a really intrinsic part of the community that's just really, really quiet. But but you're providing a service that I think a lot of people don't understand. And you know, you know, we've known each other for a little bit now. Uh you know, what's it like to to serve a what it is really a community that lives in the shadows? I mean that that's the thing that I notice most uh about these communities, that you know, there's a lot of really good parks here. There's a lot of really expensive parks, you know, that people had no idea that it's not hard to spend a million dollars on on a mobile home in Santa Cruz, which sounds like a really weird number, but like there's a wide range uh of how this community gets serviced, and and you've been an intrinsic part of it now for a long time. You know, what is that community like? You know, of course, again, we have all the stereotypes that we watch on TV, but that that's not really an accurate perception of what actually happens.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, the and you're right about that. You know, the the the overcoming the objection is is the number one, right? It's like people always in in their mind, they whether their grandma lived in what or you know, the the the TV show they watched and the the trailer parks are all just you know in shambles and you know, the couches on the porch and all that stuff, or you know, God forbid a tornado go through and take out a part, right? Yeah. And then right next to us, this beautiful res that used to be a beautiful residential neighborhood that's gone as well. But the news reporter always likes to stand in front of the mobile hall park, right? Because it's a tangled mess, and it's like, dude, pan it to the left and show the neighborhood that's gone too. It's not just the mobile halls. Yeah. So yeah, everyone has a, you know, they stereotype it, which I understand. I totally get it. But once they come in and see the house itself, I guarantee it's better than what they're currently living in. I mean, you have granite countertops, wood floors, solid wood cabinets, stainless tool applies. Anything you want. It it's anything you want to build. But yeah, I mean, we have 76 mobile home parks in our county. I mean, there's 10 on 38th alone. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Drive down 38th. That that's 10 that's so weird to me because like I know two of them. Yeah, you know, but then you know, I moved to where I did on 41st Avenue. I realized there's no one right behind. Yeah. And like there, it it it you know, maybe I'm just speaking for myself about how much I ignored this reality that that you know, these are really great housing spaces for people that to be able to afford to be somewhere.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they're they're real communities. It's not just you know, poor people or or just what whatever this I don't even know how to describe the perception other than is persona non-grata in my heart, except that once you know Kim and I started looking around, you know, and really realizing, you know, as we got her mom into a really great park. Uh, but but you know, I I remember, you know, talking with my dad about some future prospects, you know, for people within our family. And I just mentioned the word mobile home park and he lost his shit. You know, or or not mobile home park people. It's like well, normally it's traders.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I don't know what trade in the park is what they're yeah, most people that's their term. You're not gonna do that to the it's a great park.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what are you talking about? But but but I I don't think that my perception is uncommon. I guess that's my point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, so I I change the verbiage on that. You know, I I call them communities. You know, I don't use the bubble home park kind of terminology. Um so I just like to call them communities because that's what they are. You know, this is we sell to doctors, lawyers, people that work at Costco, school teachers, but we cover the entire, you know, basically if you look at at the housing as a pyramid, right? We service the bottom fat part, and that's where the majority of the people are. Okay. You're not in the middle, you're not at the top. Okay. The problem that we have is the down payment. And that's where the county used to step in. Yeah. Okay. And help subsidize a down payment.
SPEAKER_01Well, what why don't why don't you explain that to the audience? Because, you know, again, when Kim and I first got married, you know, we were thinking about, you know, buying one down at the end of the block there that back when we were just living in the apartment. And, you know, I have a bunch of friends in real estate. They're like, oh, you can't swing that. I'm like, what are you talking about? It you know, like the the rent space is this. They're like, no, the down payment on this thing is is is absurd. And if you have that down payment, you can get two houses, was basically the quick notion of just like put it out of your mind. But but, you know, there is this reality that that that mobile homes are not an easy entrance in a lot of communities, you know, because of the way they're financed and things like that. So maybe you can educate people just a little bit about what that
Financing, Land Types, And Down Payments
SPEAKER_01means.
SPEAKER_02So there's three types of of the communities in our area. There's lease land is where a company or family own them the park itself, and then they uh lease the land to the homeowner and they pay a space fee. Okay, and space fees range anywhere from three to seven hundred dollars a month. Then there's co-opt or resident of park, which the association owns the entire community as one parcel, and then you're a member of the uh HOA, so you get a uh like a certificate, you know. So you if there's a hundred homes in there, you own one one hundredth of the park. You don't physically own the land, but you own a share of the corporation. So would that be like Econominium project also? No, yeah, it's a little different than that. Okay. Uh, but then there's landown, and we have five communities with that are landown.
SPEAKER_01And you know, one yeah, yeah, the one where my mother-in-law is, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yep, and then um, but the the issue is is most of the communities are personal property, and that means you just own the home itself and there's no deeded property with it, and banks look at that differently. So now it's personal property, not real property. So your interest rate's higher, your term is shorter, and the down payment is more. Um but the you know, the if you have two people that have you know nice jobs, uh, they can afford the 3,000 or 4,000 a month mortgage, but they don't have the hundred thousand to put down as the down payment, and that's the real kicker.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so we need to somehow come up with a solution that, and the county's not gonna lose money, right? They're gonna be partners with the homeowner. Uh, we're just forcing it in an area that we're currently in that the housing market's very strong. Um, so the county's not gonna lose money. We just gotta figure out, you know, how we can develop programs to help people get into housing. Uh, but they're just not there yet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, the you guys aren't privy to it, but we had a pretty big conversation about what you know what's really
Building Boom And Parking Reality
SPEAKER_01changed here. And, you know, we have a lot of uh of large housing units, you know, moving moving into everywhere uh in Santa Cruz County. You know, there's a particular blocks that have been designated to go three stories or higher. Uh a lot has changed really in the last five years, you know, post in and around COVID, there was conversation already beginning. You know, governor forced his hand a little bit uh, you know, in ways that haven't been necessarily helpful per se. You know, in concept, it sounds good, you know, but yeah, because he forced his hand about some things, some maybe some developments are yeah, not being well thought through in a county like ours. Uh and it's creating a lot of consternation, you know, for for people who have been here a long time that you know we have you know eight-story buildings in spots that were single story, uh, you know, not just three years ago. And with no parking. With no parking and and and and they haven't even actuated a bus system yet to to accommodate for for all these ideas, you know, and Santa Cruz has a way of uh fucking shit up early. Um always has. Hopefully one day they'll they'll they'll figure out that ideas are just that, you know, that they need to be thought through and all that kind of stuff. But so, you know, so we're we're this weird kind of hodgepodge of like, oh, that sounds like a good idea, you know, with two people in a closed room, you know, rather than thinking through a project in the future of the city. But but progress needs to happen. And and I think this is kind of where this conversation, you know, is it's it's certainly where it started before the microphones were on. Yeah. That there's a way to approach things. And and you certainly live in in one aspect of that, you know, we're we're all experiencing the visual of the other, you know, grand ideas of like, oh, we'll just put more people here. And like, well, there's no real infrastructure to support, you know, what what what you're putting there. Uh you know, as you were alluding to, you know, what it you know seems to be a great development on the one hand, you know, where we're you know, we're finally getting some real student housing here in Santa Cruz Pauper, not on the hill up at UCSC, you know, to reduce a little bit of that rental friction, you know, but like again, how many units you know are going in there and not a parking spot, you know, and and it's gonna be suited to you know the people that are that are gonna be living in that housing and that it's gonna be students and teachers and yeah, you know, people that are really servicing fairly closely to that community. So so the infrastructure of the busing will will accommodate for that. But that that's like the only one that that's actually truly thought through a little bit. Well, if we're actually gonna do this, you know, this is the way it could happen, and and and and and at least on presentation it appears that way.
SPEAKER_02Well, um, yeah, I mean the the the the issue is you can't build out, you got to build up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So there's a hundred and I I told you I took a tour, I reached out to DEF CON who I think is doing a fabulous job. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can't believe how fast they're building this. Like, I mean, uh the county should take note on what's happening here. Yeah, well, what why don't you describe a little bit how they're building it because it's really cool. Yeah, so I I reached out just in a general email to Defcon's website and just just to say, hey, you guys are doing a great job. Uh, I'm impressed, you know, because I live in Dave Valley, driving past there. I swear there's another story going every every week. It seems like boom, boom, boom, how fast they're doing it. Yeah, and the owner reached sent me an email back, which was really cool and said, Hey, you want to take a tour? I said, Yeah, I'd love to take a tour. So he set up a tour for Ashley and I. We went through it. I was just beyond impressed on on the scope of it and the how fast it's going. And they're building the walls in the Central Valley in Madeira, and they're shipping them in on trucks, obviously. And then they're just crane. That's where those cranes are going. The walls are pre-fab, they're just boom. Set they put up 10 walls while we were there. They're just crane the walls up, shooting them in the floor, set them, do boom. Off they go to the next one. That's why it's happening so quickly. They're not framing anything there, yeah. Um, but what I was tripping on was that there's no parking, zero, yeah, not one parking space.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh, they want people to go there and not have cars, which I don't think's realistic, but that's their hope. Uh, you know, and then you know, you go downtown, and I hadn't been downtown in in quite some time. And my daughters wanted to even been there. Yeah, and then I don't go downtown. Yeah, so they wanted to go to Woodstocks, and so I drive down there and I didn't know where I was. Yeah, I'm like, whoa, what is this? Like, it looks like Santa Monica. Yeah. Um, and I'm like, dude, there used to be a Taco Bell right there. It's dollar six-story building. Like, when did this happen? Now there's a hundred apartments. So when did this happen? So then Ashley gets uh uh get online and because I said, Hey, what are they renting these for? And she gets online and a two-bedroom, two-bath apartment is fifty, five hundred dollars. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, oh man, because I thought this was supposed to be some affordable stuff, right? Like, I mean, you know, and and and and I'm thinking that's $5,500 after the government has squeezed your paycheck, yeah, right? Yeah, just taking everything out of it. Yeah, you have to write the check for $5,500, and you might as well fold it in a little airplane and throw it out the window because that's where it's going. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's nuts. So why can't we, if someone can afford $5,500, put them in something they actually own? Why do we have to, you know, it just doesn't make sense to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and that's why, you know, I I hope people will at least, you know, consider manufactured homes um as a possibility, because you know, you can borrow against it, you know, you got a write-off. There's so many positives to to to to moving into a mobile home community.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but I, you know, to me, it was interesting to go from Santa Cruz has always been very low growth, right? Like you might see a little thing happen here. I'm talking 20 years, right? And all of a sudden the last three, it's like the wild, wild west. Like they're just like giving for Vits away. Yeah, you know, but all there's there's some big companies in town that know the system now. Okay, there was there's all these different things that were happening at in the state level that has basically expedited things to go through rezoning, you know. Yeah, there's a project that's gonna that being talked about going on uh what is that? Um over there on uh what is that road? Is it uh which side of town? Over off 17th, like um you know where uh is it what the hell is that port? That's not Portola, you know, the one that goes in front of Target, what's that streak? Oh, yeah, Capitola Road. Capitola Road, yeah, yeah. There's one going on there where there's an old farmhouse in the back. Yeah, it's just like an acre and a half or something. They're gonna put 52 units in there, okay, with 37 parking spaces. Yeah, and I'm horrible at math. That doesn't seem to work. Like, if I lived that neighborhood, I would be so upset. Like they're gonna park everywhere because that's what you do, right? Yeah, you gotta park your car, you can't just leave it in the middle of the road.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so what you're creating spaces where you need two incomes at least to service the mortgage or the rents, and then expecting a one-income household where two people don't drive.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, no, it it it doesn't it doesn't make sense, yeah. And you know, I'm I'm all about building, you know. I I just I think we need to kind of step back and hit the pause button here and just kind of say, hey, are we really doing the right thing here? I mean, is this the best use of this property? Right? Because they're not making any more land, we know this. So we need to make sure that what we're doing is the best thing for the community, not for the developer. Yeah. Like, what's the best thing for our community? Uh who knows what they're gonna do with the old lumber yard on Cortola.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, it's it's been uh almost being sold for how many times? Yeah. You know, it it is like how many people have come up actually with a fairly good plan and have it get shot down, you know, either by the neighborhood or or or by the county itself. Yeah you know, it it's oh yeah, and I I don't know that I want to get into Santa Cruz politics because there really isn't any, you know.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I don't have enough time for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, no, it it it just the the the level of nonsense that flows from uh idealism, you know, rather than really trying to support the communities that that are the ones that are going to bear the responsibility of of saying yes has always been a problem as long as I've been here and and you know, if I all weigh in, you don't have to. You know, the trouble is I find is a lot of people move here and then they have ideas about here having not experienced it in their lifetime, you know, so that so they have a vision of of what they think the town should be based on their their you know less than a decade of being here and they get involved in the politics and all that kind of stuff because that's they're just politically driven, but with no real sense of what Santa Cruz was, is, or could be, you know, just what they think that it should be for them, yeah. You know, uh according to their view. And and you know, seeing that I really sit on that side of the political fence that most of them aspire towards, there's not a lot of logic that goes into the business side of of what it actually means to effectively use money for the well-being of Santa Cruz and the people that call this place home. You know, and and and it's always been frustrating. You know, I I'm used to being frustrated, so there's not a whole lot. You know, it's not a new feeling to me, I guess is the point. But you know, someone like you who moves here, this is your business, you're looking at it like, does anybody know, you know, what they're doing or what they're talking about, like the ramifications of this, these ideas that we just come up with, and we and and if they if they close the door and decide to say yes and hit the gavel, you know, everybody's along for the ride.
SPEAKER_02Well, look what I mean, the mall. Imagine when that thing goes through. When they start the construction of that. Yeah. 41st Avenue is just, I mean, uh, I don't know what's gonna happen there.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that's crazy. Well, I I don't I don't know that you've ever been here when the mall was really fully functioning, you know, because to own a business, and you know, I've I've owned uh uh two on 41st. If you're on 41st, people just didn't come to your business. Like it was that hard to get through. Yeah, you know, and and and I've yeah, I I think it was like four years ago I experienced a miracle moment, you know, because I I had forgotten to grab a hair color at my shop, and you know how far that is, you know what that light chain could do. I left and was back in seven minutes, you know. You know, the in in my spots pick it up down at Burger King. I was like, what just happened? I just texted them as I was gonna be 10 minutes late, and somehow I'm still early. Yeah, 41st is morally.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it can be. Yeah, uh, it's just I'm you know, again, I'm all for the housing aspect of it, but is it gonna be affordable? I didn't think so. Yeah, like they're pitching these ideas, and I'm like, you know, what is affordable? You know, I mean, I don't think 5,500 a month is affordable. No, you have to have really good jobs to net 5,500. Like I said, that's after the government has ringed your check as hard as it can. Here's your money. I mean, think about that, right? Yeah, and that's not counting utilities, that's not counting insurance, that's not counting anything, that's just the the nut. Um, it's just it's just crazy to
Housing For Teachers And Essential Workers
SPEAKER_02me. And that's where you know, so my daughters go to Monta Vista, and we I didn't even know Monta Vista was there. Yeah, we happened to build a house for them for one of the teachers on the property because they provide as much housing as they can for their staff and the teachers and everybody else so that they can retain them. So we're gonna have a situation, and this county is so far behind. Okay. The baby boomers are retiring. Okay. The ones that got here in the 80s that could possibly buy a small house in Watsonville or a condo somewhere on their salary, are not gonna come back. So someone that graduates from Oklahoma State is not gonna look at Santa Cruz as a place to come to work. The money doesn't match the cost of housing. Yeah. Okay. So I went to Ashley and I went to Dr. Rodriguez. She was the school superintendent of Pajaro Valley School District. And I said, look, um we just built a house out at uh Monta Vista for one of their teachers. I said it went really well. And Pajaro Valley School District is the largest school district in the county. I said, I've mapped out your properties. And there's I showed them exactly where the space is that they could build housing for their teachers. Like right here. You have the land. Okay. And we these are temporary. If you don't like it, we can pull them off. Yeah, yeah. I said, look, we can help fund this, no cost to the school district. Okay. We'll just collect the rents at a at a fair market rate that a teacher can afford. Okay. I and I I had it to where we could do 60 homes. Okay. She said there it would take so much red tape to get through it that she doesn't even want to pitch the idea. And I said, You guys are gonna be so far behind this you can't catch up. Okay. Without school teachers, we don't have schools. Okay. Without police officers, firemen, we don't have safe communities. Okay. It's the same job. They can make the same money elsewhere and have a better quality of housing life. Not a better quality of life, but housing life. Okay. So any most places, if your wife was a school teacher and you worked at Costco, you could buy a middle-level home. Not here. Yeah, not gonna happen. Yeah, and it's not gonna probably happen in my lifetime. But if this county doesn't get their act in order, nothing but the wealthy people are gonna be able to stay here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it's I mean, for those of you that are listening around the world, you know, the these this is the kind of consternation that that even folks like John and myself who can't afford to be here, you know, you know, some of that's luck and the the pain of, you know, John still has to work, I still have to work, I can afford it though, you know. But if people knew what my actual wages are, you know, compared to where I am, you know, that they they would be astonished. You know, it's like, how are you even here? Well, I was lucky, you know, it was the 90s, you know, it it was a window, you know, I got in at the right moment. But you know, the the influence of affluence, and and I I love the people that are moving here. It's it's it's not like you know, I I I've really learned to embrace, you know, the the level of wealth that that's really moved in here. But at the same time, that the natural ramifications, you know, uh of these things without a county that can accommodate for those things, but are just using, oh yeah, we're building affordable housing, but like, as you say, 5,500 bucks a month rent is not affordable housing. You know, and you know, I I have sons, you know, you know, one of my sons was making really, really, I think good money for for an entry-level job, you know, you know, not not hitting, hitting those, uh, hitting those six figures yet, but but but good, you know, stable. And I was listening to a group of people that are are north of 60 complaining about you know young adults and how they just aren't moving out and just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, you know, and they were sitting right next to me. And I I'm like, I I totally interrupted their conversation. I'm like, I can't listen to you anymore. You know, and and I said, My son's a, you know, this person. How much money do you think he makes? And and they said something absurd, oh, $35,000 a year. You know, I'm like, no, it's way more than that. And I and I said, and he is the person that you're referring to. You know how much money that that he makes gets him? And they're like, no, he goes, Two, I said, two roommates, you know, yeah that money. Like you like, you don't understand. And a third one that the landlord isn't no big room.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01You like you don't understand the level of pressure that these young adults are in to just you know, they're helping the community out, making what you know might have been great money, you know, a decade ago, but it's like, yeah, no, no, he can barely afford rent.
SPEAKER_02Dude, it it's it's everywhere. Yeah, it's everywhere, and that's why Highway One going northbound is so packed because everybody that can't afford to live where they work. Yeah, that's what it comes down to. Yeah, right. So Bob Rodino, um, who's part owner in Seascape golf course, uh, we talk all the time, and and he has an issue as well because the job's only worth so much, right? So you're green skeaker, your staff, you you can only pay so much, but to retain somebody is very difficult because they again, that same job, they go to the Central Valley, make the same wage they can afford to live. But to come here is very difficult, and it's across the board. It's you know, I look out this window here, and the people that are working here, where they go home at night, but where do they live? Their salaries are only so much. I don't know how we're gonna do it. I don't know how we sustain it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, and and and again for the audience, uh I mean that this is this is the this is the way to think about it. You know, for an adult to just pay rent here and the job, but also provide health care, you have to make a minimum of $50 an hour. So, I mean, you hear a whole lot about you know, minimum wage spikes and all this kind of stuff that we do in California. It's still not even touching it. You know, that we're we're not even close. And that's just to pay rent. That that that's not, you know, and so I mean, could you imagine the prices of things, you know, if with with the service community that that that is you know kind of enveloping, you know, what Santa Cruz is, could you imagine being the owner of a small business where if you're gonna retain that employee, you have to pay $50 an hour to retain an employee. No, and and so that friction is what we're referring to, you know, and and $50 an hour.
SPEAKER_02So we have um we have what they call uh low-income communities in the mobile side of it. Yeah. A family of three, low income is considered $147,000. Yeah, that's considered low income. Yeah, that's nuts. Well, I'm poverty level, just so you can't. It's insane, yeah. You know, but I'm telling you, I I uh
ADUs, Permits, And County Roadblocks
SPEAKER_02so our ABU office out in Aptos, you know, we we built that out so that because we're looking at it like in order for families to stay here, right? So let's just say my daughters. Uh they're when they turn 18, 19, whatever it is, they decide they want to move out, they're not gonna be able to make enough money to afford anything. There's no chance.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So we're looking at it as we want to put housing in backyards, okay? Uh you already have the land, you gotta start there. Okay. But the county has made it so difficult. Okay. Um, it'll take us a year to even get a permit. They say this 60-day bullshit, there's no chance. Yeah. We are setting up a meeting with Kim DeSerba to go over our files because I nobody at the county listens. I want someone to go through our file and say, tell me how we could have done this in 60 days. You're advertising this. Oh, yeah, we can get it done in 60 days. You can't get a soul's report in 60 days. Yeah. So how are we gonna do this? Yeah, you know. So we work on projects for a year, two years. Yeah, you know, and it's like, I don't understand. You guys say you need housing, but you put up every roadblock possible all the way through, is nothing but a roadblock. Uh, you ever heard of the long toed salamander?
SPEAKER_01Well, the three-toed salamander, yes, I'm very familiar with it because uh this is the long toed.
SPEAKER_02Oh, the long toed salamander. Yes, gotcha. Yeah, he's a tough one. Yeah, try building anywhere near him. Gnarly. You know, it's just it's taken. We were doing a project uh over on Sunflower Lane. Um, it's taken us a year. It's a perfectly flat piece of ground. If you drove out there, you go put a house right there, no problem. Year later, $70,000 in permits. Still don't have a permit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and again for the audience. There's this weird sense that I think is coming over the county because uh really it it's it's because of the ability of the money that comes from the valley to to move itself here, which is no fault of that money, but just to break ground on you know, to build a new house, to remodel a new house, to change anything with your with your uh uh oh gosh, why am I forgetting this? With your foundation, you're in minimum, what, 70,000 bucks just to break ground. Oh, you know, and and great, you know, you're you're you're watching, you know, price fluctuations, you know, at at a range of over a million bucks, you know, move $100,000, $500,000, you know, based on sales. You think, oh, there's enough money. And yes, for the people that have enough money, you know, that that makes sense. But you know, you think about anybody who's lived here for some time, right? Uh who's maybe owns a home flat out, you know, who is trying to accommodate for their grandparent, you know, for their parent, for their child. And I'll just pop an ADU on, you know, they're seeing all the all these things, you know, where you can drop something with crane for a hundred thousand bucks. Yeah. It's like, oh yeah, but good luck with the permit, you know, because just to get that pad on the ground, to drop that, you're in it another, you know, $90,000 just to get the concrete in the ground so you can drop whatever supposedly cheap ADU you know you just bought.
SPEAKER_02Amazon sales them for $28,000, right? Yeah, that's great. You know, there's a big disclosure at the bottom that they're not responsible once you buy it. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's just this county's brutal. Yeah, absolutely brutal. And I hope that they get some people in there that that can really start making things move. Yeah. Um, in that sense, you know, as far as the the ADUs or backyard homes, whatever you want to call them, because I think that's in field is the future um for this county. Um, but they have to make it more affordable. I mean, septic systems used to be 20, 25 grand all day long. Yeah, yeah. They're now 80 to 125 because they're enhanced systems. That's all they allow now. Yeah, yeah. It's Out of control. The septic system costs more than the house.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That shouldn't be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Should not be. Yeah. So yeah. When someone comes in and say, How much is the ADU? It's like, well, the house part's easy. I'd do that price right now. The hard part is the on-sites. So we have to gather all of this information before we can give you a proposal. Because you got to see the whole picture, not just what the house cost is, because that's the least expensive part of the project. Is the house. Yeah. It shouldn't be that way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and you know, I I don't want to speculate as to all the whys. You know, there's a sense of ideals that I adhere to that that are part of this county, you know, that that we want to be environmentally sound, that, you know, we don't want septics moving into, you know, waterways, going out to the ocean. You know, look, this is premier space. It it and we want to maintain that. But if people had any idea of, you know, what we're calling red tape, of rules on top of rules that that and again, I you know, I don't want to take away from people's livings either. You know, it's like the Soils Report, the environmental report, the there are so many reports now that you have to, you have to get, and then on top of that, you have to wait in line. You know, so the timing of things, like everything costs so much money that there's there's redundancy in the system, so many places. Oh, it's nuts. And this is the place where governance really needs to clean up its act.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
When Fees Make Projects Impossible
SPEAKER_02So we have a project we're getting ready to do on Freedom. It took five years to get a permit. Five years. Okay. So the part that I don't understand is the people that we pay, the engineers, the architects, all that stuff, they they have the stamp. Okay. That stamp certifies all their documents. Why does the county have to oversee these documents? Okay. Ultimately, whoever stamp is on there is responsible for it. I get checks and balances, okay. I get, you know, come out for final, come out for you know, your inspections. Why does it have to sit the county for six months and then get a response back with a laundry list of crap you got to do? And it's like, this doesn't make sense. Yeah. Why is your engineer overlooking my engineer? It's like, I don't understand. And then after five years about, I don't know, probably 80 to 100 grand in in fees and stuff to get to that point. And just reports. Yeah, reports and all that stuff. Then they say, okay, we're gonna issue your permit. And I was really excited until I saw they want eighty-seven thousand dollars to pick it up. And I'm like, okay, I don't understand. Like, why eighty seven thousand dollars? And they're very good about breaking it. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like line items. This is a bill. Yeah, they're very good at billing. And I told them, shove it. I'm not picking it up. Yeah, not gonna do it. I said, what I've the land was X amount to get to this point was X amount, and to add that, it doesn't even financially make sense for me to build it out. Yeah, yeah. And I I already own the land. Yeah, and I'm like, you doing all of this has added so much expense that I'm not gonna do the project. I'm just gonna sit on it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So this county's in trouble, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, you know, absolute trouble. They they these permits that they're it's just crazy. Talking out of both sides of their mouth, oh, we need this and we need that. Well, you're stopping us everywhere we're gone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I understand what we're trying to do is get a person in a home on the property that they own. And it's just been it's it it's incredible to see the pushback.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, again for the audience, you know, the the you know, and I'll be be saying more about this in a in a later soliloquy.
Common Sense Leadership And Next Steps
SPEAKER_01Governance is meant to benefit the people that it serves. And and I think it's really, really important to have ideals. These conversations get really uncomfortable because I and I know at least the two people in the room that are sitting here aren't here to criticize. It's just that there's there's a level of nonsense when we hear from our leaders that, oh yeah, we're moving towards this thing where we're gonna be a better place for everybody. And we really want to take of care of the lower income people. And and it's just lip service, you know, because at the end of the day, the price tag is what it is, and the price tag is whether or not you're gonna be able to get here or not. And yeah, you're seeing lots and lots of millionaires and billionaires move here and seemingly getting what they want. We're not making them happy either. You know, it it's you know, that they can move anywhere. And when they're looking at uh, you know, $250 to $500,000 upfront just on design and permits, uh, it's just really hard numbers to imagine. And yeah, they can afford it and they will afford it now, but what happens when they stop and just say, no, you know, no more, you know, no more, no more handing you $500,000 just to put a house up, you know, and and and you know, governments rely on those monies to to to fund itself and they distribute those monies and and you know the these these the budget crises that California is facing right now, it's not a mistake. You know, it it it's it's uh it's a it's a reliance assuming things. You know, that the they there are just some things that that the county here has gotten away with because it's so beautiful. But you know, the beauty wears off. That there's there's the reality. You know, if if if the price tag is what it is, you know, and then what happens then? You know, that there's the reality. You know, there's there's not money for anybody because nobody's gonna be here to shop, nobody's gonna be here for commerce. You know, it's not that everybody, I'm not saying everybody's gonna exit. It's just that, you know, if we want things to be a community, this is part of of the picture. You know, that that if you want people to live here and spend money and and have a place to govern, well, it it's it's gonna sit empty if this is how we how we keep doing things. So yeah. Anything you want to add to that? I think you're getting a little bit too serious.
SPEAKER_02No, I just, you know, I mean, um, it has to be talked about. Yeah. I mean we're not talking about it enough. Yeah. You know, it you people, you know, we we can't have them exit and us go, man, we didn't think about that. Yeah. You know, we should be talking about it and saying, hey, how do we keep these people here? Because we need them in our community. Okay. Without these people, it's gonna be hard for businesses to stay open. You know, I mean, everywhere you go, just look in the kitchen. Okay, yeah. The people back there, it's like making your food or serving your drinks. I don't know. I they're they're still here today, but the rents, I don't know how we're gonna sustain someone because that job only pays so much, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And and can only pay so much, can only pay so much, and you know it's yeah, but I mean again, police officers. I was talking to a Capitola police officer the other day, and we were talking about, you know, because it's public knowledge on income. Yeah, yeah. Okay, and it's like, how do we how do we live here on on this income? When they can drive over to Santa Clara and make fifty thousand dollars more, yeah. Right, even though it's expensive over there, that's another fifty though. Yeah, or they go into the Central Valley. I mean, if you look at at the recruiting right now of the sheriff's department and all these agencies, they're offering money up front just to get people to come to work here. And but they can't live here. No, they can't live here, yeah. Absolutely not. You know, they they live, you know, in Aromas or Salinas or other areas that are are nobody said those aren't affordable either, you know, but that's where everybody's moving out to because they can at least get into something, right? Again, going back to Highway One, everybody's coming in because this is where the work is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, let's switch gears a little
Gratitude, Studio Thanks, And Goodbye
SPEAKER_01bit. You know, when you look to the future, you know, what what is the thing that's driving you now?
SPEAKER_02Um I mean, my kids, yeah, you know, like uh just make sure they're safe and healthy. Um obviously my wife. Um but you know, it's just uh I I don't know what this county has in store in the next five years after watching the last vibe. Yeah. Uh and my you know uh my hope is that you know, we get some good people in office uh that understand, you know, and can relate and have common sense. Um I'm a very common sense guy. If it makes sense, let's talk about it. You know what I mean?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh not these knee-jerk reactions that I think are kind of happening right now. Um, you know, I I definitely the landscape's gonna change. There's no doubt about it. I mean, it's definitely gonna change. The old golf course is gonna be another development.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, uh the one there on the side of the freeway.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know what's a pitch and putting. I don't know what the master plan is, but they to get from Mar Vista onto Soquel is gonna be a nightmare. Yeah. I mean, they're talking 400 more units there, you know, a six or seven-story uh building. Um you know, but again, you have to build up, you can't build out, you know, and I don't see and and I could be completely wrong about this, but I don't see Watsonville doing this. I haven't gone to Watsonville and seen a seven-story new building for housing. I don't know if they're on board, but uh you know, there's there's definitely still land available on the outskirts, you know, that I don't know why we're not building in other areas. It just seems like I can't drive a bile without seeing either road construction or things build up. It's just amazing what's going on here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, and and you take something like the Marie Street Bridge, which was fine before. You know, I uh there's enough information to find out why it's been stalled out. You know, you know, there's the the they're you know saddling new sewer. They're the the like once the bridge started going up, you know, you know, the city decided that they're oh, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do that, while this is here. And the the lack of forethought, you know, on on and the impact on those businesses. You know, I I think of something like uh like the Donut Station Capitola, right? Which, you know, they build that bridge. Those owners have been there for 35 years, right? They barely survived, you know, that bridge.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they had to go get other jobs, you know, to to service a community that used to be able to easily get there. And, you know, they're they're they're gonna be okay, you know, and and it's not that the donut station is is some important spot, you know, but but it's a piece of community. You know, I go there with my dad every Monday, and it's it's a spot he always went to, and how empty that place was when we first, you know, started going back here, you know, as as he's starting to to head down the other side of the road here, you know, and to see it full again and and and see all the people being able to see my 92-year-old dad, you know, who who the relationship was cut off, you know, for a year. Yeah. You know, it it uh it like the the impact is real and the lack of planning, you know, and and the impact for the for the you know, even a little donut shop that that's more than survive. But you know, they're they're making a living wage. They still gotta be to work every morning at five o'clock making donuts and doing the things that, you know, it it's really unsettling, you know, to think about all these, you know, yeah, it's a pain in the ass to to drive, you know. It it's always been in the pain in the ass to drive in this town. You know, it it just depends on when you showed up. You know, it it it they're they're different problems, but you know, the local impact and and how that really affects you know the dollars and cents and the reality of those things, it's real. You know, it's really real. John, is there anything I missed that that you wanted to talk about at all?
SPEAKER_02No, you have some good points. Um, you know, I just uh hope this county gets their their act in order here. Um it's gonna be important. Yeah, the next five years is gonna be very important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. All right, bud. Well, hey, you know, I I just want to say in front of everybody, you know, that's listening and in front of you, I'm just really grateful to have you as a friend. Yeah, it's been really, really, really good to get to know you uh in another way. I I mean John and I spend about a half hour together, you know, uh once every three weeks. It was nice to have this conversation with you. Oh, I appreciate it. I mean, yeah, so so thanks for all that, and to all of you. You guys have a good rest of your day. I'd like to thank uh Pointside Beach Jack for their help. All this time we have the studio. We are at Southern California Studios this time. Yeah, you guys need to come check them out.
SPEAKER_03Love y'all have a good rest of your day.