Episode 91: Coaches Corner With Coach Stephan: A Conversation About Learning to Adapt to New Dynamics and Demands For Coaching Resilience in Our Young Men

Your team is down a few runs and you can feel the dugout quitting, not loudly, but quietly. That moment is where youth baseball stops being a game and starts being a mirror, and it’s where Stephan and I spend most of our time in this conversation.

We talk about what it’s like coaching in Santa Cruz, how Stephan's love of baseball started as a kid watching the Yankees with his dad, and how a sport built on failure can create real resilience. We also unpack why Stephan coaches now: the kids who walk in with low confidence and leave with a new posture, a new calm, and proof that hard work changes them. Along the way, we get into the gritty realities of youth sports culture, from parent dynamics to players who don’t actually want to be coached.

Then we go deeper on the stuff coaches wrestle with every week: how “gentle parenting” can drift into coaching, why tough coaching is not the same as being mean, and why accountability is a form of care. We debate the difference between sore, hurt, and injured, and how “something hurts” can become an exit ramp when pressure hits. We also take on travel ball, bad reps, and why “more training” can backfire if the coaching quality and the development plan are not there.

If you care about youth baseball coaching, player development, mental toughness, and raising confident kids, you’ll get a lot out of this one. Subscribe, share it with a coach or parent who needs it, and leave a review with your take: what should coaches expect from kids, and what do kids deserve from coaches?

Transcript

Welcome And Santa Cruz Roots

SPEAKER_01 0:05

You've pressed play on the unpacked superflux podcast. That's a good one. Steven.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

We got Zaddy on a bee.

unknown 0:14

I ain't no I ain't no chance.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

You fell for it finally.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

You finally got me here.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

You're later. You're later.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

I came over just for you.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

I'm so proud of you. Thanks, Mike. Steven, you have an interesting relationship with Santa Cruz. But before we get into that, when you think of Santa Cruz now, what does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

You know, I grew up in Scotts Valley and so Santa Cruz will always will always be home to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Interesting. Yeah. Haven't heard that one yet. Yeah. Yeah. So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Uh well, my name is Steven. I um I grew up in Scotts Valley. Um I'm uh I'm a baseball coach now. That that wasn't always the case. And you know, I'm I'm married uh to my to my dream woman, and that's that's about it. Yeah. Yeah. That's it, just baseball?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Just baseball married.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yeah, you know, I like to keep it simple.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah, for for the audience, uh uh Steven is is one of uh uh there's about five of us, right, that kind of knuckle drag with each other and coach together and have the last last few years. But uh it's certainly been a pleasure to to be a coach alongside someone who I think is the best little league coach I've ever met in my life. But but but we will get into that a little bit more. Um you know, you recently kind of well well were were you were you ever living here when we were coaching at first?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Yeah, so uh let's see, when did I first meet you? It's we're in 2026. So this would have been 2024. Yeah, yeah. I was living in Aptos. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so it just recently my wife and I moved to Cupertino, and uh, we've been over there for about a year now. Um so you know, when I I've been in and out of Santa Cruz since I was since I was 18. Um, and um before I I moved back to Santa Cruz when COVID had kind of just hit, like maybe about a um, yeah, right right around the time COVID hit, I was living up north in Loomis. Okay. And so um, you know, when you're when COVID hit and you were everybody was like, hey, you gotta you gotta stay inside, you can't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

And so when you are living in a town where you don't I I was up there for work.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

I was in IT staffing at the time, and so uh up there for work, and they say, Well, you can't leave the house. I go, okay, well, I don't know a whole lot of people up here. So, you know, maybe it'd be better for me to be around family and in a community where I at least know, you know, a lot of people and have some buddies there and whatnot. And so that brought me back to Santa Cruz. So I had been in Santa Cruz from say 2021, 22, somewhere, somewhere in that time frame. And then just this last year, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Yeah. Um and so you played ball um in the

Moves, COVID, And Returning Home

SPEAKER_01 3:50

farm system for a bit.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

After after high school, I went and played in the Pacific Coast League. Okay. And tried to play as long as I as I could. And it's um it uh it'll you never play as long as you want. Yeah. So I didn't, you know, when when I started coaching little league, it was the first time I had been involved in baseball in in a while. And so it was like this, like, you know, I didn't un until I had kids of my own, I didn't think I was gonna be involved in the in the sport again. And then how things just kind of unraveled after that is yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Yeah, this is the we're we're we're in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

It's it's pretty it's pretty fun to watch you, you know, from this vantage point. You know, there's a lot that we have in common as as far as as values go as it pertains to coaching. But you know, for the sake of jumping right in, you know, let's let's talk about why you coach. You know, like like like like what is it that really grabs you uh about coaching and and you know, not to go on too much of a diatribe about it, but but you know, there's technique and then there's good coaching. And and uh good coaching is a whole different prospect. You know, you're in the process of of learning all the little qualities you have as a human being that that you can you can give to kids through the metaphor of baseball. You know, the you know, whether it's on the discipline side or or technique side, but the person that you are, which you know will will always take a little bit to come out in conversation with you. Because just in your nature, yeah, you know, you're you're a yes or no man. Uh but you know, I I really mean it, people, you know, I I've been around a lot of coaches and and and I've I've never seen a coach capture the imagination that Steven does, you know, especially at early ages. You know, they're they're they're they're it's like herding cats, you know, in Little League. Yeah, and I've never seen anything like it, you know, just just this that the kill ch kids pay attention to you. They respect you really early on. You're not grumpy, you know, you're not any of the any of the things that that you know coaching in my era was to kind of get that same kind of attention. But but there's something really special about you. And and so I'm just curious because you know, youth sports is is not the most fun place to be. You know, there's a lot of weird dynamics, it's not really about baseball at the point, you know, you're taking the culture of being young and adapting it to a sport. But for you, what what has what has kind of lit you up to to capture your imagination to decide to be something in that space?

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Well, uh, you're right in youth sports is not always fun to coach. And any coach out there will tell you that. Uh there's been plenty of moments over the last three or four years to where I have thought, why am I doing this? You know, whether it's uh coaches, other coaches who, you know, are upset uh with the way your team handles things or goes about their business, I guess is a better way to put it. Um or parents who, you know, it's what I have found is it's usually often coaches and parents who um, you know, if if your team beats them, all of a sudden there's a problem. But you know, if you're a if you're a last place team, you know, you're not on anyone's radar, your people don't care. It's it's always if you're if your team is one of the more successful teams. And um, so there's been plenty of times where I have not wanted, uh I've thought to myself, you know, is this really what I want to do? And uh my wife can attest to that uh as to many conversations as to is you know, is this is this worth it? And so to your question, um I think for me as a coach, uh what I really, really enjoy is uh seeing a um a player who is maybe not the most gifted player talentsly, uh or with talent, excuse me. Um, but they have you know this desire to work hard and to want to get better. And uh those are the players that I I really like to hone in on and work with. And um whether, you know, when you s there's something about it for me that this feeling I get that when I see a player who um at the beginning of the season uh had no confidence at all, you know, that baseball practice, they looked like you know,

Why Coaching Still Matters

SPEAKER_00 8:40

they wanted to be anywhere but there. And by the end of the season, you know, they're walking up to the plate with this new confidence, or you know, they walk up and they get a hit, and you can just see this confidence pour down over them. And uh it's uh this feeling I get that um I, you know, maybe had some small part in that. And that that for me is uh one of the huge driving factors. And uh the reason I think that's so important is because uh sports, you know, my mom would she would uh she'd like to tell me as a kid, uh she'd go, Steven, you're never short on confidence, yeah, you know, as a as a way to say, like, you know, you tone it down. You tone it down a little bit. She does you're never short on confidence. And I've thought about, you know, where does that confidence come from? And uh part of that is having parents um who were extremely supportive and uh great with me. But the other part of it comes from uh being successful and as an athlete and the level of uh um confidence that gives you that isn't just about baseball or whatever sport you're playing, but it it bleeds into life, you know, whether that's uh work or you know, you gotta go do something, and you just have this kind of confidence that will carry you through. Um, and so I I guess when I coach and I see these kids become more confident as time goes on, I go, I know that that's going to help you as life goes on. I know that's gonna that's gonna stay with you. And then all of the hard work that you've put in to get to that confidence, you know, is um and we can talk about that, how youth sports are much different now than than when I played uh when I was in youth sports when I was in the little league.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Um Yeah, we'll we'll we'll we'll actually get to that because I I I think you know, for the audience just to get to know you a little bit more uh you know, there's something that happened through baseball for you. You know, and and I I think you and I work on the opposite end of the spectrum. Right. You know, I was a pretty talented player, but parents weren't as involved, you know, the the the culture was different. It you know, times were just different. It's it's not not like my parents weren't bad, it just playing baseball wasn't a thing, you know, and so I was given a choice to you know dive into surfing more, you know, and that's what I did competitively because still had that that fire in me, you know, and and because I could be independent, didn't need my parents, you know, to show up to do things and things like that. I I didn't you know I I wasn't reliant on them, so so I had a sport that I could cling to, you know, in in an arena where I could pursue you know a competitive atmosphere. You know, for you uh you know, you had had that privilege of of having parents that were involved. But but what did baseball mean to you growing up? You know, because you know, as we get into the dynamic of you know, what is youth culture, youth sports right now, and and I think it's an important conversation to have, uh, you know, because we're at this tipping point about about a couple of factors. You know, for you when you were doing it, how how old are you now?

SPEAKER_00 11:52

I'm 37. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

When you were doing it, you know, the culture was really different. It was it was far more competitive coming from the kids, you know, also from the parents, but the kids were more competitive. So the parents didn't stand out the way that they do when they are. That's that's very true. There's just the whole dynamic that's really shifted. You know, you're you know, a generation away, no, you're two generations away from who you're coaching mostly. You know, they have the generation that I raised, which is Gen Y, you're a millennial, y you know, and and Gen Y is when it really began to taper, you know, now we're with you know this COVID generation of athlete, which is where where the paradox now exists. Uh but for you, what was the dynamic like? Like, like what how how do you feel that baseball helped shape you as a person and how sports just shapes shape you? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Well, I um, you know, as I mentioned, I'm I'm really close with my family. And growing up, my my dad is from the East Coast and uh he's a big Yankees fan, and I'm a big Yankees fan. And well, you know, when you're a a a kid, really small, um, and your dad's big, whatever he's interested in, you're interested in. You know, your dad's always your hero when you're a kid, and it was no different for me. And so, you know, growing up and um having a dad, he played ball too, and um, he was so uh excited to uh get he tried to get me into t-ball a year early. Because he he he said uh to the uh commissioner lead, you know, like, hey, he's he can go on a plane now he's gotta wait till he's whatever age. I think he was five. Five yeah, five. Um and so he likes to tell the story of um when he he was my t-ball coach. He was my coach for a lot of my life, but uh, he's my t-ball coach, and um he was given the the bag that the coaches get, and in that bag was uh, you know, the catcher's gear and the mitts and helmets and and a bag of baseballs. And he said that uh he and my mom had gone to bed that night. It was the first night that he had got that bag and they're laying in bed and in the middle of the night they hear thump, thump,

Confidence For The Not-Gifted Kid

SPEAKER_00 14:10

thump. And my dad's gone, what is that? So he walks into my room and I had taken the balls out of the bag and I was sleeping with them, and they were falling off the bed as I as I moved around. And uh, so I I had um uh from the the youngest age I I can remember my earliest memories were the only thing I thought about was baseball. It was just, you know, I whether it was my dad always had it on TV and we were always watching games together, um, or whether it was Looney Tunes and uh they had the baseball um games that they would play on that. Like I wherever there was baseball, anything baseball related, I just couldn't get enough. And it was this uh this deep love that I had for the sport uh and the game. And um I just uh it's yeah, it was uh it's it's just ingrained in me. Um and uh how that's shaped me. Um, you know, one, it's my dad and I are very close. And, you know, um even if you know he and I don't see eye to eye on some things, what always brings us back is, you know, we we talk almost every day, and it's you know, I had you see catch score of the game last night, and um someone you know, talking about the Yankees, and so it's it's certainly kept our relationship always very close. Not not that we wouldn't have been close without it, but it's you know, it's something we have always bonded over. Um and you know, but like sports in general, it's it's they're so challenging. You fail so often. Um and in baseball, you know, if if you fail 70% of the time, you're gonna make it to the Hall of Fame. So, you know, even the best in the world are failing 70% of the time, so it's a game of failure. And that has played a huge role in my life because I have failed at a lot of things. And, you know, it's it's there's been some things throughout my life where it's like, man, this is gonna be tough to get back up from. Um, but for the most part, it's you know, you just just like you would in a game, if you strike out, it's okay, just next bat, you know, just go get them the next, you know, you make an error, I'll get the next ball. And that's kind of been my mentality throughout life of when something bad happens, it's all right, I'll, you know, get the next one or next thing will work out and just kind of just keep moving forward. Um, and so sports has played a huge role in my life. And I I don't know that uh I um I I I I guess I I think that my mindset without sports, uh I don't yeah, I can't even imagine what that would look like. You know, I think life would probably be a lot harder than it already is.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah, yeah. I I mean it it's uh you know, I guess the proper word for it, you know, there's a resilience that one has to face. And you know, in baseball there's accountability because we can count. Right? The numbers don't lie. You know, the the impact on the game and and uh for those of you who are not familiar with athletics, baseball is probably one of the most ruthless personal accountability sports that there is because you can be a really, really good baseball player and be on a bad team. And it's not that you don't care, it actually just doesn't matter whether your team's bad. You know, you because you're still that player. There's there's a this really sucky individualism built into baseball. I call it you know, you know, the literally you got you got twelve tennis players sitting in a in a cave together, you know, that really don't you know it's hard to create a culture of caring about your teammates in baseball because it is so individualistic. And you know when you made a mistake, everybody knows when you made a mistake because the numbers don't lie. You know, it it it it's it's a highly abusive, personally abusive culture, you know, to to to the person. And then you know, at least in Little League for me, it's like how how do you remove as as much of that thing from falling on the individual and and create a safe culture for the whole group? Uh but again we can get into that more later. But but that resilience you know, like when I look back towards baseball, I I miss both those things. You know, that that being with the team, you know, where where you have next man up that's gonna be able to cover you if you've blown it, but also being that person that maybe maybe helps the other person. You know, when I when I

Falling In Love With Baseball

SPEAKER_01 18:50

look back, you know, because I didn't play through high school, and I you know, I probably should have, you know, that that's one of those deep longings. That's why I coach. It's it's like I don't want another Mike Howard to slip through. You know, it's like because cause it it was something deep in me and I didn't know till I let it go. You know, whereas you got got to fulfill as much as you could and you followed it as far as you could, and and it gave you the you know you know, we sit in the same spot in many ways of like we we both developed resilience, you know, but baseball is unlike any other sport that way. And that, you know, it's not an individual sport because you're accountable to all those other guys. You know, it's it isn't tennis, it's worse. You know, you know, it's like you can go home and cry in your own soup with tennis, you you know, where the problem was nobody's mad at you. It's you it's just you and you, you know, but you know, with baseball, it's 12 of those guys. Yeah. You know, and how how to how to create a a culture is is is just it it's it's an interesting task every year. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Creating the culture is is one of uh it you know, you go into a season with this is my style of coaching and these are my expectations, and that's something that's a conversation I always try to have with every team that I coach is you know, just kind of my expectations for the team. What are their expectations for themselves? So you go in with this idea of this is the culture I'm going to develop here. And uh you it's it's not always easy, you know. There's always kids on the team who are who don't want that culture, you know, and uh there's parents who um now are, you know, hey, I this is what these are my expectations of little league or travel ball or high school. This is this these are my expectations, and so therefore that's what I want the culture to look like. And you know, our I think our goals are are different from the standpoint of, and you know, I'm not saying they're wrong, it's you know, noble that they want their children to go as far as they can take this sport, uh, the likelihood that their children go far in this sport um or play even past the high school level is is so low, you know. And um so my view is well, how can we try to make these young men good members, good productive members of society? And how how can just, you know, with this four or five months that I'm with them, how can I set install some um good habits in in them that will carry them, you know, who can that can stick with them for life? Because I I had coaches when I was 12. I had a coach named Russ Miller who uh was my travel ball coach, and um he is one of the greatest coaches I've ever had, and I I love that guy. He's still around. Uh and the lessons that he taught me when I was 11, and actually he had been coaching me since I was nine. So from you know the ages of nine to thirteen or fourteen years old, uh I still have those habits to this. I'm extremely thankful to him for that.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yeah, and and you know, the impact, you know, for a a young boy, you know, or a young man to have other men other than your dad. You know, you can have a great dad, but the impact of other men is is so important. And and you know, again, getting into the culture that we've cultivated, you know, it's we we've been joking around about, you know, we're we're the Ted Lasso team, you know, Matt Matt's Ted. And uh, you know, you guys all all got to hear from Matt and Frank, you know, about a year ago. Uh it's it's been a privilege, at least for me, to re-reapproach athletics this way, you know, not not be the hard ass that I always was, you know, doing it before of just you know, try trying to get that expectation level high, you know, creating culture where it can be matched, um, you know, and having to do a little bit more individualistic, you know, at the time. So it's been a real privilege to to be in this like, no, the culture is just kindness. And you know, the our staff is so adept at whatever

Failure, Resilience, And Team Culture

SPEAKER_01 23:20

we're good at that that we can fill the gaps where yeah, we're we're we're you know being nice you know d doesn't doesn't work in sports, I guess the best way to do it. You know, it's it's competitive. So it it's it's been a privilege to approach it this way, but you know, I I can pretty much say that we hit a wall, you know, here this last year of of of of taking niceness as a culture and only looking through that lens, you know, not not that you're you're I were necessarily not that we weren't nice, but you know, you you get my point that that that there was a thing. But you know, I as I was expressing to you know at the end of the season this season our our our post uh postmortem postmortem meeting of like, oh God, we just got our asses handed to us uh as coaches. Uh you know, entering this dynamic where you know I I believe it's COVID and the relationships that have been developed at a very young age, you know, with things, you know, whether it's athletics, with whether it's your parents. You know, we found ourselves in the middle of a weird conversation, you know, with with our group. And and I I don't, you know, I've talked to other coaches, they're they're all saying the same thing. So it's just an interesting generation to coach because not competitive isn't the right word for it, but but that resilience thing seems to have uh have left the building a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

You know, it it it and and you know, I I really did want to talk to you about this because I think there's there's a conversation to hear openly about this, you know, both us unpacking the season a little bit, not of course naming any names, but but just this this thing where where being nice isn't enough, that you're not giving the kids enough tools, you know, to walk away from and be able to really step into what a future in baseball really looks like. Yeah um and you know, I I think you represent one paradigm of or one aspect of that paradigm, I represent another. And there's certainly a lot of gaps to fill between whatever words that we share. But but what's the one marked difference that you saw once we stepped up, you know, in into into real baseball?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Um as opposed to say little league.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah, yeah, because the field the the you know the the the the the field isn't what it you know it's not real yet. Right right? You know, like ba baseball doesn't really show up in little league. Baseball genuinely shows up once that big field shows up.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

No. I I you know you you kind of touched on this earlier. Um I guess, you know, and I'm not trying to get political here, but I think like how in my lens, how I how I kind of see it is what we've seen is we've seen the gentle approach to parenting shifted to coaching. And coaches take that gentle approach. Um and you know, there's maybe there's some good with that. Um, but I can tell you as a player, I uh uh even as a young kid, I always wanted a coach who was going to get on my ass if I, you know, if he saw me not hustling, you know, during warm-ups or something like that. I respected the coach who would call me out on it. Yeah. I didn't respect the coach who would, you go ahead and do whatever you want, you know, you're in charge of you because you're nine years old or 10 years old. Uh and so when I started coaching, I took what I really appreciated about the coaches I had had throughout my life. And um part of, I think of do you know who Ruben Foster is? He he's uh let me let me pull up this tweet he he said the other day because I I could not agree more with it. He's a he was drafted by the 49ers, I want to say in maybe 2016, right around there. He's a linebacker, um, extremely talented linebacker, but he had this great quote the other day. Uh he said, tough coaching isn't hate, it's

When Gentle Coaching Hits A Wall

SPEAKER_00 27:40

accountability. And I I could not agree more with that. Uh and so yeah, I think um as these kids have been taught, you know, um a lot of their coaches probably have taken that gentle parenting aspect to coaching and and now they're in pony, and okay, like you said, it's real baseball. And um, your job, I believe, as a coach, once you're coaching kids out of little league, is to get them ready for high school baseball. And it's uh it's a huge jump from pony to high school baseball. And most kids in pony won't go play high school baseball. Um, but the kids who want to be there, you know, your job is to teach them, get them ready for high school baseball. And so um part of that comes with like these style of coaches that they have had throughout their life for the most part. That's that's now like when you get to high school, um, these these coaches are paid coaches, they're coaching for their job. It's it's no longer about, oh, your mom asked me, told me you wanted to pitch more, so you're gonna pitch more. And so keeping them more accountable and prepping them for high school baseball and the pushback you get from a lot of these 13-year-olds or 14-year-olds who have never had that before. Where it's like, hey, you you know, you don't tell me to when I show up to practice, my shirt needs to be tucked in. I need to be wearing a belt and a hat, you know, right? Or I just even need to have cleats on. Um, whereas when I played, you would never dream of not showing up to practice without those things. Right. Um, and so you, you know, uh, and you know this too. There's we, you know, we had a couple of kids on the team who just did not want to um hesitant to say be told what to do. Um I th I think it's better to say they did not want to be coached. You know, um, they didn't actually really want to be coached. They didn't want someone to actually help keep them accountable. Um, they did not want to get better. Because if you want to get better, you need to have somebody who's gonna help you get there. And part of that, part of what comes with that is accountability. And they did not want that. And um that's for me one of the more frustrating things uh this season is to see uh you know that attitude among our amongst

Owning A Tough Season As Coaches

SPEAKER_00 30:00

our youth. You know, what what about you? What was for you, what was the harder part of this year?

SPEAKER_01 30:06

How I've been putting it, this year I got my first F ever. And uh I could say I'm pretty shook as a coach. And the reason I'm shook is that uh I know better. You know, and and you know, I I was hoping that the culture of us being adept at what we're good at and being kind was gonna be enough. And you know, I I can like there's a sequence of events, you know, these are practices that you weren't at where I was just trying to get them to uh grab the warm-up. You know, just grab it, like own it. It's yours, you know, it's it's a hundred, it's a hundred throws, uh approach it professionally, work on your feet, you know, work on opening your your shoulders up, take the time, get the grounders, do the things. And so you weren't there for the conversations necessarily, you know, where I was explaining to them, you know, that look, you're gonna see 10 grounders, you know, 10 fly balls every, you know, every practice. You're not gonna get better. That's not what that's not when it's gonna happen. You're gonna get better when you're playing with your friend. And and that's that's where the discipline matters. And you know, when they ignored me, it was not Coach Power showing up that used he used to be like, oh, you're ignoring me. So all we're doing is running and playing catch. You know, and and then you know, you know, I I was I I was hoping and I was hoping in the wrong thing, you know, that that's that's that's where I caught myself. And you know, it was it was my own latent fear of just not being a dick. You know, because people either love me or hate me. There's generally not an in-between thing, and I'm okay with that part of it. But um, I think the emotional journey, you know, much of which I've kind of sat outside and watched you guys as a coaching group have to go through, you know, once all the bored bullshit and the parent bullshit and all the other stuff literally, you know, I've I've I've been trying to to to ride in my yacht, you know, in this in the cesspool, you know, and not have to touch the water, and and realizing that that I I really I didn't touch the water and that wasn't cool. You know, that that that was a massive failure on my part that early on, that even if you guys had to kick me off as a coach because I pissed some parent off, that probably would have done more for the team than anything than me showing up. You know, so that was my you know, 30,000-foot view of this season of like okay, next year I have to be the guy I know I am, which is creating accountability, which is that kid who keeps making the same error. No, we are dedicating a whole practice to working you through the emotion that you go through to know that it's okay with this group to fail, and it's okay to do the work in front of the group, also, you know, though like that that thing. But you know, I made a few kids cry and and and you know, being a tough coach is not being a tough guy. It's it's it's actually a piece of gentility in its own way of of demonstrating like this this is just how life is. Like it's hard and you're gonna fail and it's gonna hurt, but you can rise above your failure. And not, you know, part of the part is just my age, you know, that that I wasn't sure if I was emotionally mature at this age to go through that again with a group of parents, you know, and my reticence to do that, there's the F. You know, because I wouldn't know, I couldn't tell you. You know, I didn't do all the things I could have done. So so that's where the F is. You know, I I I we you know, for me, you know, there was there was two kids that I identified. I helped neither of them. You know, you know, it's funny because I I did you know the dad of the of the better of the two uh just ran into him two days ago and he's like, hey, you actually gave him a really great season, you know, and he actually asked asked me to stay in his life, you know, for for the future, and that that's the kid with the with with the with the highest uh highest future on the team, which which was uh it was like I don't know how any of that penetrated, you know, with the little conversations that we had about what was going on so late in the season. So I I guess I get an F plus now because I got that one, but you know, the project that I took on, you know, and and the impact of that attitude that just was resonant throughout the team somehow. You know, it it was a very strange dynamic to watch. You know, what was easily demonstrated with one kid but was sitting subtly with almost everybody. You know, I want these things, but I'm not willing to do the work. I'm gonna stay silent and I'm gonna pout. And then when it gets hard, I'm gonna quit. That that was that was a weird dynamic to watch, you know, especially in that one game where it just all showed up. And you're like, wow, I like I haven't seen this in a in a single A dugout, let alone a group of 13 or 14 year olds that are about to play high school. Like you hurt, you got hurt doing what? Like we haven't had practice or a game for two and a half weeks. Like, like your arm hurts, huh? You know, you know, something every day, something.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

It's tough as a coach when you hear that. Um you get kids who say, you know, if they they pitch poorly, um, you know, well, all of a sudden my elbow hurts now. Or uh they, you know, maybe they went 0 for 3 with three strikeouts and uh my shoulder hurts or my, you know,

Sore Vs Hurt Vs Injured

SPEAKER_00 36:10

with this and that. And I there are times where, you know, I I think um I mean my dad was notorious for me. If I had an injury, it was you're still going out there and playing. And so I I come back, I I come from that back of your leg better be literally falling off for you to come out of a game.

unknown 36:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Um and so you you it's hard to decipher between as a coach, you know, hey, how much of this is they are, you know, embarrassed that they're playing poorly and they just they're looking for a reason to come out, or is this a legitimate injury? And um, you know, it's as a coach, you're just you're put on a hard spot because you go, you know, I'm not gonna be the coach who told this kid, suck it up, his elbow hurts, and then you know, you get a call two weeks later, then he needs Tom John. You're just you're I'm not gonna I don't want that on my conscience. And so you know, you're it's kind of this like get out of jail free card that they have been told since they were a kid that, you know, since since um single A or double A, you know, in Little League that, hey, if my arm's sore, don't don't do anything more, you know, rest your arm. And so they've used a lot of kids now, I believe, use that as an excuse to say, hey, I I want to get out of this situation. I'm not comfortable in this situation anymore. Something hurts, you know, opposed to, hey, you know, you're you're pitching like shit today. That's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Figure it out. You know, you've you've made five errors today. That's okay. Let's let's fix the problem, but let's not run from it. Let's not, and that kind of goes back to what I was saying about with me is just that I what I am grateful to sports for is you just you have to develop that resilience in sports if you want to keep playing, you know, because you're gonna need that in life, whether it's sports or anything else. And sports, I think, just brings it out in a younger age. Um, and so there, you know, like you you were saying earlier, there's uh a lack of resilience there. And that's that's a good example of it. And so how do you how do you coach through that? That's that's something that I struggled with this year for sure, is you know, trying to decide, because it was in my nature to just say, hey, push through it. You know, you got a little are you injured or are you hurt? Is one of my old coaches used to say to me, you know, um, you're injured, uh, you know, you you you can't play anymore, you're injured. Hurt is part of it. Hurt is you just play through it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Is it okay if we go deeper on this? Of course. Yeah, yeah. You know, what again, you weren't around for these, you know, conversations. You know, we we had the one massive moment there towards the end of the season. You know, then whenever I was alone with or had moments of it was like, look, you guys clearly don't know the difference between sore, hurt, and injured. If you're not sore, you're not playing. You know, that's that's the reality of it. Like in season, you're gonna be sore and you should be sore all season. You know, there there's there's that's why baseball should have short seasons, you know. That's just a reality and the nature of you know uh of the game. And any it's any game. You you know, you you're a pro surfer and you you know your job is to surf every day, but sometimes it's not to do it twice a day, you know, no matter how good the waves are, because you're too sore and you might get hurt, you know, and there might be a contest like that. Like, but the nature of the relationship with those three categories, you know, is what seemed on my end to be lost, you know, that that whatever the friction point was, injury was the way out of of the friction or hurt or injury, you know, seemed to be the conversation piece. You know, so that that was eventually identifiable. Uh but to the point that that I that I that I'm you know, again kind of lingering in from previous to to what we're talking about now, you know, how to develop a culture of resilience. You know, it it feels late. That that was that was the urgency that I feel, you know, is that you know, I was staring at a group of kids that's like, look, if you're not on the A travel team, guess what? That's the high school team. Like, like you're not on that team. And then if you're not doing the work down here while nobody's looking, dude, no one's looking. It's perfect. This is the perfect moment, because it's the perfect moment of failure. And the real difference, uh again, there's an impact moment, you know, where where we had that one pitcher who actually was playing pitching a great game. He's pitching a dynamic game, and the field just failed him. And oh, coach, my arm hurts. It's like, no, it doesn't. He's got 60 more pitches, buddy. You know, I'm not sure what it's hurt from, you know, in times past, realizing, oh, I can't have this conversation in front of everybody. Like, get up there, cry, and pitch. You know, like that there's there's the thing, that's the dynamic. And yeah, there's gonna be a bunch of guys that that are gonna talk about it later, but then there's the one kid you struck out while you were crying, you know, like yeah, and and you got that thing on him the rest of his life, you know, and and you know, it's in this competitive at atmosphere that that you realize you can you can overcome hard things. And it that was the weird culture dynamic that I saw. It's like, oh, like we we haven't even prepped this conversation yet, you know, of like, yeah, it's okay, man. Cry. It's all right. Yeah, you're having a bad inning, and your team sucks behind you, like, so fix it. You know, where's the fix it in you? You know, that that that thing. And and realizing that you know, I I was watching all the teams. You know, I I I don't I I didn't see it. There aren't many kids where I saw that in their eyes of like, I can fix this. And that's what that's what scares me a little bit, you know, is is that lack of them seeing what real leadership looks like. You know, it kind of coming from the middle of the pack and going like, no, we got this, you know, and and not really seeing a culture of it almost anywhere. That's that's where I'm like, ooh, you know, you know, is athletics doing what it needs to do? You know, and how how do we find the words to say it differently than we used to, right? Which was which is, dude, suck it up. You know, if it's not falling off, you're okay. You know, we'll we'll go to the doctor

Conditioning Builds Leaders

SPEAKER_01 42:55

later.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

I'm um uh uh when I first started coaching Little League, I was I was coaching my nephew's uh triple-A team, so they're nine and ten on that team. Um and the last time I had coached was high school. And uh how you coach a high school team is is much different than how you would coach a uh nine and ten year olds. Um but in my mind when I first started coaching at a little league, I thought I'm I'm gonna take a lot of the same things I would do in high school and I'm gonna apply it here. I'm just gonna see what happens. Because that's all I know. You know, that's uh I you know, I didn't I didn't have a child. Um, you know, I had a a nephew and a niece. And so um with this team, this nine and ten year old team, this triple A team, what we did almost every single day once our practice was done was conditioning. And people were looking, they would be walking by the field and they stopped by the nine to ten year olds you know doing sprints as you know what what's going on you know and i don't mean three or four sprints i mean they were yeah they were they were doing sprints and uh we were pushing them and the the goal was i first it's a long season um you you just games go long sometimes you want to be in better shape than the other team but what i was really trying to teach them is that when you're tired when you feel like quitting you are so much stronger than you think you are um you know i learned that in high school football is you know during hell week and conditioning which is uh I had never ran like that before in my life and I remember thinking what we don't do this in baseball what is going on uh and you know I remember having teammates uh drop next to me they'd quit um I remember I remember my um high school football coach saying if you got to puke run and puke um and I had never so nobody's ever said that to me before but I actually I enjoy that I liked that level of intensity I love to be pushed to that level I I to me that is that is fun you know it's it's not fun when you're in it but when you get done and you go man I just accomplished that I I wanted to quit you know my third sprint I wanted to be done and I did seven more or ten more or something like that. And um the other thing so I think that teaches you resiliency and that you're you're strong. It teaches you that you really are strong. And then the camaraderie that you get with your teammates it's a it's a great opportunity early in the season for a leader to rise amongst the team as to you know when the team's huffing and puffing they don't want to do any more sprints you know coach why are we doing this you know they don't they don't understand you know the the purpose for this you know even though you explain it to them, you know, they're just they've never ran this much before and um you know you usually and then this season we had two or three kids rise up say hey let's go keep pushing keep pushing and that bonds a team they have now been through a challenging thing together and you build this team camaraderie so that when the season is going on and it's late in the game and you're down by X amount of runs and your um you know your team is less likely to quit on each other because they have been through hard times together. And um it's developed leaders and it's developed mental toughness and physical toughness and um I think that's really really good. I think that's really important. And so uh conditioning going back to your um your point of you know this season you and I coaching 13 and 14 year olds and and Mike's right we there were games where you know we're down three or four runs, nothing. And you can see players just start to to quit. And um you know it's uh I'm not saying conditioning is the answer the answer to everything but I think it it's really important.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

Yeah it it it's I'm gonna introduce another element you know because you and I have had multiple conversations about this and I and I think we're at a spot where we can we can talk this through um the good thing about good coaching is it's good coaching. The thing about bad coaching is it's bad and especially

Travel Ball And The Bad Reps Problem

SPEAKER_01 47:20

with baseball it's all about good repetitions or bad repetitions because you you do what you're taught. You know I I I I'm a travel ball agnostic you know uh there there's there's always a space for me with that because you know there are an elite group of players that do need more time and more good coaching that can't be provided through league you know period um that being said you know I I I've watched how you know because I I left the sport when travel showed up like was really getting impactful you know because I just didn't want to coach around the culture shift. Because the more people do things the more it uh dilutes the staffs right and and you know I I recognized early it's like look great one travel team's great for an age group but now we have two age you know we have two in the same and now now it's three now it's four now it's another team I don't see the coaching on the field and now all you're doing is utilizing a child's talent and that's not necessarily a discipline. You know that that there was the thing that I saw you know it's it's ad nauseum huge now and just a part of the lexicon of how baseball's done in region and and I condemn no parents for participating. It's not that it's just that elite coaching is elite coaching. If it's not elite it better be disciplined and when I see neither of those things all I see is bad reps and then when I get to league now I'm undoing you know a whole year of bad reps in three months. And it's like that's an impossible task you know because the child's being rewarded because you know they might be on the right team that year. You know and you know they don't even know that the pitcher and catcher are are uh making sure kids hit away from them right you know because the parents don't let out money for for whatever and so that so it creates a false confidence. And and again baseball doesn't lie. Like there are no lies in baseball. It it it it's the numbers are the numbers you either can or you can't and if you can you can do it against anybody. And if you can't you know that there's just enough brinksmanship that can happen you know in in a in a small community like ours to to hide a lot of bad effects of what I would consider mediocre or low coaching. You know and you know ha having it turn into more of a league atmosphere to me is like you know it it's hard to watch. You know it it's we certainly have people that we know that that are that are assistant coaches and they're like I got no business you know being in travel and here I am with you know this this coach who's just a dad also and you know it's like ugh you know it it's it's alarming to me because it's like oh that's two, three times the reps now of this thing that needs to be fixed. But at a pause reapproach. You know I I I you know I'm I'm curious you know after seeing this season you know and and seeing what was fully on the field you know because because I I I don't think that our little slice of of nine teams there in Santa Cruz isn't representative of what's going on everywhere. You know we don't we have a really strong baseball culture. We all got a lot of really good players which is what's amazing and dynamic about Santa Cruz like we've you know for for the size of the county it's incredible. Produces it's a crazy town that way. Like we produce really good athletes but that next year down you know it's like more is not necessarily better. That that's that's my approach you know to those things better to grow and and this is I think where the parents are are missing it. So any parent who who you know understand that that my thing is like it's not I don't like travel it's just that you know we learn things at particular ages and to say an athlete is even mature at 21 I don't even think that's an accurate number. You know like like like their their talent and discipline might might uh show up but the maturity of of understanding a game really doesn't happen until you know you're you're you're in your mid to late twenties. You know and so if you're trying to operate at big scale at small scale where a child's still growing you know there's just you're not you're not giving the kid enough room I guess to grow. You know that that that's that's where I you know as as a macro thinker and a you know coaching the whole child because that's that's you know what Little League's imperative is right. You know we're we're coaching the whole child. Well I I see a lot of whole children getting ruined by too much bad coaching without any you know it's the there's no ill intent. It's just like well the the kid needs more time. You know I I can't tell you how many how many players I know that didn't really show up till their second third year of college. You know and then all of a sudden their their first round out the door. You know they weren't they weren't seeing anything in high school and you're like how'd that kid make it? You know like so the it seems like we're we're losing room for that is is my point because there's there's a lot of 80%ers. You know we we had one on the team who who I consider a second fiddle who who was you know uh who just hadn't had touches. You know but all all the stuff's there. It's like oh we just got to get as many repetitions with this kid as he can to get his confidence up because all all the pieces are there. You know and and those those are the kids that I am most concerned about. Right. Right because they're gonna hit a high school roster here soon and boom you know you know the because the guys who are playing through are not just who you want to focus on but but you want to get them to that next step. So that's the deficit that I see sitting sitting within what we're talking about is like got baseball's great team sports are great uh it can teach resilience but you know understand what's happening though too on the south end of all that you you know that that if they're learning it wrong they're getting better at it you know that there there's my great concern as it pertains to what I've observed.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Yeah I I have these conversations with parents a lot as to whether the children should or should not play travel ball. And it's you know parents I I I understand it. You know they there's parents I you can probably lump them into a couple different categories but there's the parents who want just the status of their child playing travel ball. They don't care what organization it's for they don't care what team it's for as long as they can say we're doing it we're doing a tournament this weekend you know my my son's on a travel team. And then there's parents who are I am solely focused on my child's development. And to those to those parents um you know I I I do remind that I try to remind them that uh travel ball is a bit like these organizations are business at the end of the day. And um that's in my opinion why we we see um so many travel teams um like you mentioned you know a team an age group may have um three or four teams uh for an organization and it and it may be just that those you have that many kids who are qualified to play travel ball you know or who are uh good enough to play travel ball um or you know um some some organizations look at it as in you know hey we're

Why More Training Can Backfire

SPEAKER_00 55:30

I think it's some organizations look at it as we're giving more kids to to play giving them more of an opportunity which is great that's great um and then some may you know say well you know the more kids at play that's more more revenue and so um being smart with what organization you're you're gonna play for but it is a business at the end of the day um and you know when I sound like an old man saying this but when I you know when I was uh 12 uh I started doing travel ball uh I think eleven or twelve uh uh up to fourteen um it was uh from what I recall we just had one travel ball team here yeah yeah and um I played for that one I I don't uh you know it's so long ago maybe there's a maybe there's one more that I I'm aware of no I I think back then nobody knew about it unless you were that kid.

SPEAKER_01 56:24

Yeah you know it was like it was a very hush hush thing and and yeah that might sound elitist but it's like well these are elite players you know it's it's it's not you know it's not hidden it's just you're not elite yeah you know and I you know again I don't like that either you know as long as there's really adequate coaching to the sport so the child can develop you know that's that's the goal you know not just the showcases and you know whatever whatever agents are showing up to to come clock your kid throwing you know 90 when he's you know 15.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Well I think you touched on it there it's it's a but it is about the coaching you know you can have you know whether or not a kid is quote unquote good enough to play travel ball or you know fits into that box uh it it doesn't matter i i if the coaching is not there then they're they're just they're not gonna develop and then the players who are good enough to be you know uh the higher end players the more talented players the elite players like you said um you know that kind of the cream of the crop if the coaching is not there then then they are going to uh they're they're not gonna develop as far as they would if they had um a coach who's if if that's an organization's goal is to develop I think that for parents who are considering putting their kids in travel ball uh when I when my wife and I have kids uh our and you know if my my children are playing sports um and my question I know that my wife and I will be talking about is is this an organization is this a coach that is going to help my player develop and I don't think it's just as a ball player. I think it should be are they going to help them develop as a person? Are they going to be giving them those tools as life goes on? Are they going to remember these sort of things? I think the really good coaches do both. Yeah you know and I think that that's that's hard to find is a coach who's capable of helping your player develop but is also going to be a good role model for them. It's going to um yeah just help them develop off the field as well.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Yeah. Yeah I mean my my my motto on Times Pass is first need need to learn learn to do it right. You know and until you learn to do it right more is not part of the equation. You know and you know again getting to time scales you know age differences how we grow all that kind of stuff you know I to any parent listening and I and I really want you to hear me my heart is so for your kids it it's crazy I could cry thinking about it. But you know the reality of more too early you know it it it's if if they're not learning to do it right more is just harming them. You know it it it's and you know I'll say it out loud if you think for two seconds a coach once you get to high school cares about your kid no you know the coaching staff that's sitting you know below the management level you know you you'll get some care and there are some really great you know head coaches in town I'm I'm not wanting to to demean anybody except to say that that every high school team wants to win. From that from from the end of pony on as it pertains to baseball or I think any other sport winning is the imperative. That is what gets you your job that's what keeps you your job and it becomes by any means necessary. And so this dynamic of winning you know it it's a balancing it's a balancing act and and that's you know why I've dedicated myself to league sports. I think they're important because there's so many diamonds in the rough sitting out there that just haven't had the opportunity and that's what League provides. You know and and you know it it I'm certainly not against money. The more money shows up the more that gets pushed out that that's that becomes the the the hard part to watch you know unless you have a kid that's super talented and able to get the free ride. You know and and you know I've certainly been a benefit to that you know having talented athletes and and uh having clubs reach out and be willing to be flexible on the pricing schedule all that kind of stuff to to to get there and and so I I understand that but at the same time you know what sports does is for the whole human and you know m money complicates it just a little bit you know you know because of that dynamic that I'm observing. So you know it it's uh you know Matt and I have had our our conversations about next year like, you know, are you ready for powers to show up? Because powers is is is not the easygoing grandpa that you've been watching.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Well I I think uh young men want that. I I really do. I I um I don't think that I don't view it as you know being uh hard on your kids and what I mean by being hard is holding them accountable and um teaching them discipline and work ethic. I I think those are those are great things to install in it in anyone and instill in anyone. And so I do think young men want that. And I can I can attest to that for myself like I said earlier. For me, the type of coaches I gravitated towards were coaches who were going to hold me accountable, coaches who were hard on me. And I I don't mean they weren't sticks. Yeah they they weren't they weren't mean for the sake of being mean. They weren't you know and you see this a lot with uh Lily coaches that they their their goal was not to win to inflate their own ego their their goal was to develop baseball players and make good young men. And I was really fortunate to have some really good coaches uh when I was younger who really uh and so I think that young men gravitate towards that. Um I don't think they gravitate towards hey I'm gonna be your buddy and you know I'm gonna let you get away with anything. I don't think that's how respect is is earned. I really don't. I think it's by holding them accountable and helping them get better. I mean if you're if you're not helping them get better and you're just hard on them, they're gonna go, coach is a dick. But but if they if you are truly and they can tell you know they can tell if they're getting better. They can tell if you really want what's best for them they can kids can they can see that. And and then they start to see themselves get better and they go, hey now you know the reason why coach is making me do this hitting drill over and over and over again. I'm so bored of it. We've been doing it for two months almost every day but you know wow I my contact rate's through the roof you know my batting average is through the roof um you know like okay again coach the coach may know what he's doing or you know and then there's then they they kind of start to buy in when they see the results. But you know you gotta so I I I think if your approach changes next year, I think that's a and I think I hear what you're saying. I think it'll be a I think that's gonna be a good thing. And and I do think that the kids will respond well to that. I think at first they're gonna be reluctant. We saw that this year there's a a couple kids early on in the year who um the first two practices you know by practice four or five uh when they saw that they're just not gonna get away with doing things that they maybe had done in the past, you know, whether that's like not hustling or I'm gonna show up to practice without the gear on um you know I'm whatever it is. And they get called out, they, you know, it took them some time to really understand like hey this is how this is how it's gonna be but they're they're really reluctant at first and then I think over time I think uh young men in particular re respect that and respond well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Yeah. All right well last question because then I know you got to go. You

Elevate Baseball And Starting A Family

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

got a lot going on. You know we we we really didn't get to your story per se, although I think this is a conversation we needed to have um due to the time constraints. What do you look forward to in the future?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

You know that there's there's a lot of a lot of things dynamic wise going on you know you just got married the just just a lot you know you you start a new business what do you look forward to in the future you know not not not just for you but for humanity for the kids well I um you know baseball is a uh and sports is a huge part of who I am um but more importantly and like what really how I like really view myself is somebody who I'm uh tell my wife this and my family knows this about me that I I am happiest when I'm with my family and I'm around people like yourself who I love and close friends and Matt and Frank and um you know and you you know the guys and so that that is when I am the most content you know the the world can be falling apart but you know when I sit in there uh with my family um I am I'm the happiest you know being with my wife and you know and and her dog you know just hanging out at home um that's when I'm happiest um and so with the future uh I did start a new business it's called Elevate Baseball um we're we're located in Santa Clara um you can reach out to Mike if you'd like my information for just tell the audience okay um yeah you can well I don't know if I'm gonna throw my number out here but so you can reach out to the to Mike and he can he can get you my contact information um but it's um I have a facility in Santa Clara it's uh hitting uh fielding and pitching lessons I don't do the the pitching lessons but I have a a coach who's uh a former player who's our pitching coach and he's fantastic um and so uh I look forward to we've been open for a few months um look forward to see where that's gonna go um what I'm really looking forward to Mike is uh starting a family with my wife and um you know been coaching youth sports now for four or four or five years something like that and uh I I just look forward to the day to where it's you know I'm coaching my own son or daughter um and you know whatever it is that they're doing you know and and maybe it's not sports I I hope it is but if it's not you know just just um starting starting my family and um and uh watching my marriage grow and um just looking forward to being a father and and watching Caitlin be a wife um that's that's really what um I'm excited about in the future and um you know uh I pray that baseball is is a part of that um you know that's that's what uh I would love to see baseball be a part of that um in some way shape or form um you know and and also the the friendships I've made over the years coaching uh people like yourself people people like Matt uh Frank and uh there's just so many people who so many great people who I've met over the years uh and watch those relationships develop and I just look look forward to um you know continuing those friendships and um but uh yeah I don't does that answer the question yeah okay

Shoutouts And Closing

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

he's not a man with a lot of words but that's hey Steven thanks so much for uh for multiple things thanks for coming in of course but but you you know I love you you know it's it's been a joy to to coach with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:45

I know that was our last year together you know I'm probably staring at my last year next year and well Matt Matt will probably be glad it's his last year after he sees the other side of me. Anyways uh we are heading out here but uh I want to thank Standy California Studios here that uh we get been able to do the podcast here we're going on three weeks it's been great Santa Cruz Vives Media go check it out also Point Side Beach check love you buddy yeah bye everyone bye okay we'll see you all soon the beginning