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it's one of the best golf courses in the UK
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without a doubt I was shocked it didn't make the GPI
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our rankings are trying to be a reflection of good
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architectural design but then also proper agronomy
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tree management
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good management of Heather where it exists and
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and presenting a course
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bringing all three of those cogs together
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this is really really good golf
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we can't really take it seriously
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because there's a few animals roaming around
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I think you're wrong about one thing
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on what you just said hotels
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and the management of a group
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that don't care about the golf
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as soon as you make a course green
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for photos and pictures and for people arriving at
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wanting to see lush green things
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you take away a shot option
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which takes away strategic shot options
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those are the kind of things that we can judge
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because it's the way you've set up your course
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that is negated strategic golf
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it's not whether your greens running at 6 or 10
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whatever we don't care about those things
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you can preserve things without spending a lot of money
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you just have to understand what to preserve and how
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courses on this list are there
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because they have preserved what they have
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don't hire a hack hire someone who cares enough
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to understand why the golf course is as good as it is
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get a lot of architects that will go in
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and they'll make changes and propose changes
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without actually
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knowing what they're actually changing
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history won't smile well on
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on these guys they've got a lot to answer for
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hello and welcome to another episode of your Top 100
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Clubhouse podcast
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I'm your host James Henderson
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as always uh
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we have our regular guest in Jasper Miners
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and editor of the website
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and then one that people are slowly getting used to
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with a second visit on the top 100 Clubhouse podcast
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and we sure
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sure to have more and more is our GBI Head of Panel
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Simon Barrington how you doing Simon
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very well James
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thank you very much and glad to be back
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so quickly after the England preview uh
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pod which we did and um thanks to everybody for the
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positive feedback that we got for that
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that was great well
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calling you the GBI panel lead
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has probably teased what we're here to talk about and
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uh I'm quite excited about this one
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cause there's been a bit of movement
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you boys have been up quite busy haven't you
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yeah yeah
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it's um
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the GBN list is an interesting one
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because it's really encapsulates what we're about
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which is
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you have the global panel feeding from the top down
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and then you have the country panels
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feeding from the bottom up
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and this is a amalgamation of those lists uh
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put into a logical order um
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in order to get some measure of hierarchy
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um and it's much you know
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to a certain extent there's more science than art
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because the inputs
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are really prescribed by those panels um
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and and I think that's fairly unique um
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in the uh
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in the ranking universe uh
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to be able to do that um
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and you know we are
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you know
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we're blessed to have a very experienced global panel
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and that really dominates the top 30 or so in the list
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and then you know
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we have our country panels uh
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below that um
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but yeah it's a
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uh been
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been a joy for Jasper and I to uh
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work through it because we keep getting
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reminded as to what a great place
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this is to play golf
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I've seen the list as you guys as the
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the TPN I panel work through it
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and one thing I have noticed is how good
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the courses that have missed out are
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this is this is always the tough one
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because
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once you have your panel set for your countries
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um and we
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we took the approach a little bit differently this time
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it historically
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the way it's always been done was
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the world would go first and then GBI would go second
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and then the countries would go third
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and then counties
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so when we reset uh Scotland
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Ireland and England over the last two years um
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we tried to make it from the bottom up
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in the sense that we wanted to really see like
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what the panelists were saying on the ground
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in the trenches because in the past
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everything was from the top down um
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the virtually
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all the big decisions
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were already made by people that maybe had
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come and had a few plays
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over an extended period of time
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rather than guys that are seeing a lot of courses
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on repeat play so on this one occasion
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we thought that we do it slightly differently
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and that resulted in a lot more work
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but I think the end result uh
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was that we got a
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a true reflection of where things were at county level
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sub region country level region
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which we're talking about now GBI
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and then obviously
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the world is still to come this autumn
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so when you bring the Four Nations plus the
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the Islands together so you've got Ireland
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Scotland England Wales
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and then you've got Channel Islands
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and Isle of Man to kind of all bring in
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which makes up GBI
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and it's really difficult
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like where do you cut off Ireland
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where do you cut off Scotland
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where do you cut off England
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and do any of the islands make it in
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so this is always the the toughest part um
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like when does that course in Ireland
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become better than that course in Wales
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or when does that course in Wales
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is not quite as good as the one in Scotland
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and and that's the yeah that's why we're really glad
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we have someone like Simon hahaha
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yeah
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so I'll I'll broad broad shoulders and take the blame
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but um not at all um
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yeah it's it's it's it's very difficult I mean
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there are different ways of looking at it you can be
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you know you know
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I'm big on numbers
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and you can be fairly scientific on it and
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and say what proportion of
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of
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of the total golf courses a particular nation has and
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you know most people aren't aware that
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you know
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61% of all the golf courses in GBNI are in England
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I mean it's just a massive number of courses
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are almost 19 courses you know
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Scotland's only got 18%
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the island of Ireland north and the Republic have 16%
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uh and Wales has a very small 5% um
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and you know
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we don't curate a list to match that
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sort of scientifically um
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because you know Scotland's a home of golf
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it should over index and when you look at the top left
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top echelons of this list
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driven off the global ranking um
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Scotland clearly over indexes and should um
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and but then when you get down to those debates
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towards the bottom end um
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we spend a lot of time um
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working out how to get that balance um
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and when you do have an eye on that balance
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it makes those discussions of
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is it course a in England versus course B in Ireland
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or course C in Scotland or course d in Wales
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it makes that discussion easier not harder um
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but at each decision point um
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we've thought very carefully and rationally about those
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um and hopefully we've got a
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an output that at least is respected for that and um
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I think the output is
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it's full of 100 great golf courses for
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for for me
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when you look at the the regional rankings
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I mean your your big ones are
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the biggest one obviously is North America
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so Canada and the States
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and there might be one or two Mexican courses in there
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as well and then you've got
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I think
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Puerto Rico that's included part of the Caribbean
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so fine so those are there and I mean
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if you could play any one of the region courses
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that would be a really good one
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cause you have some pretty heavy hitters um
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but when you look at Oceania
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like New Zealand and Australia really
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really good like world class at the very
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very top and then Peter's out maybe halfway through um
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and it's dominated by Australia
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so the Australia hundred
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you know
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is punctuated by some of the New Zealand courses
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but not a lot um
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so
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you're basically looking at kind of the top hundred in
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in Australia with the really good ones from New Zealand
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but outside of North America
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I mean GBI is an unbelievable list of
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of great golf like if you had a
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if you had the opportunity to play those 100 courses
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and that was like a
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that's the list I wanna do before I die
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it would probably be more nuanced
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have more variety better value for money
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and closer to pure golf than probably any other
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regional ranking that we have uh
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it's an astonishing astonishing list of golf courses
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it is crazy isn't it
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I understand it stems from the fact that you have this
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um
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there's a massive amount of coastline in the UK
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that lends itself
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the coves that lend themselves to collect sand over a
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generate over many many a moon
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but the the fact that the number of links golf courses
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and links golf courses do dominate the uh
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GBI 100 comparatively to any other nation
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it doesn't really
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you don't see it outside of the UK that much at all
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is that just cause geography of the island
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or why is that yeah
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I think that's the case I mean yeah
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we have um
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you know considerable
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you know there are pockets of links courses clearly
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you know you look into Holland
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um has got some
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some very good links terrain
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um clearly when you
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you know you start looking uh
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on the west coast of the States
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because the Pacific is such a ocean with such energy
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just like the west coast of Ireland has
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the Atlantic with so much energy um
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you know the transitions are very um
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stark and it almost becomes cliff top or macro dunes um
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where where I think
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you know GBI is also blessed with
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you know the island of Ireland and the mainland
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of the UK has an east coast with much more benign
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uh links land as well and that
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that sort of middling links land to flat links land um
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is something that lends itself extremely well to golf
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um because you can go across it um
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as well as just being in the valleys which
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you know you
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we we which
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which we can discuss in terms of
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you know architecture for
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like for example
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Burkdale was specifically designed by JH Taylor to um
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be a tournament course
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where they used the valleys so that the um
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dunes could be used for spectators um
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and in in many ways
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it's the naturalized example of alpinization
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that he did at raw
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mid Surrey um
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you know so um with
277
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with Peter Lee so
278
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,866
you know there's different reasons
279
00:10:52,866 --> 00:10:54,400
there's different types of links
280
00:10:54,466 --> 00:10:54,800
you know
281
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,800
Sam Cooper's travelled the length and breadth and
282
00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,800
security of the
283
00:11:00,033 --> 00:11:03,566
of these islands and playing all the links courses and
284
00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:04,700
you know that's a
285
00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:07,900
that's a great a great project that he did um
286
00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:10,166
and the variety even within links is so strong
287
00:11:10,166 --> 00:11:15,266
but yes we are blessed with the geology and uh the um
288
00:11:16,066 --> 00:11:17,166
you know earth movement that
289
00:11:17,166 --> 00:11:18,966
that provides for great golf
290
00:11:19,633 --> 00:11:20,800
I think the other thing to
291
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,166
to talk about too is I mean if it's not
292
00:11:23,166 --> 00:11:26,466
if it's not great links then it's also heathland
293
00:11:26,966 --> 00:11:29,500
and I think heathland properly presented
294
00:11:29,833 --> 00:11:33,900
can be just as engaging as any amount of uh
295
00:11:34,266 --> 00:11:36,966
as much as links can can do uh
296
00:11:36,966 --> 00:11:37,900
and in some ways it's
297
00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:40,633
it's got more bells and whistles than links land does
298
00:11:40,633 --> 00:11:42,300
although you do find some Heather at
299
00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:44,633
at some links courses Royal County Down being one
300
00:11:44,633 --> 00:11:47,366
I guess it really stands out but um
301
00:11:47,766 --> 00:11:49,166
I think when I look over the list
302
00:11:49,166 --> 00:11:51,066
I see you know there
303
00:11:51,066 --> 00:11:53,266
there is the beginning of
304
00:11:53,433 --> 00:11:54,700
I think in England
305
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:56,566
as much as we talk about Parkland golf
306
00:11:56,566 --> 00:11:58,800
versus heathland golf um
307
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,800
there's actually quite a lot of Parkland
308
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,000
that has moved up from the bottom of the English
309
00:12:04,066 --> 00:12:06,866
to the top of or the
310
00:12:06,866 --> 00:12:07,866
the middle ground that it's
311
00:12:07,866 --> 00:12:10,566
it's made advancement in the ranking um
312
00:12:10,566 --> 00:12:12,366
because they're they're managing the courses really
313
00:12:12,366 --> 00:12:15,066
really well and I think even in Scotland
314
00:12:15,066 --> 00:12:17,333
a lot of the inland courses um
315
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,100
are starting to make that move as well
316
00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:21,866
you know whether that's um
317
00:12:22,833 --> 00:12:25,100
the um
318
00:12:25,166 --> 00:12:28,000
what was the James Braid up in the north um
319
00:12:29,233 --> 00:12:30,000
to to garden
320
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,400
no boat of garden
321
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,233
so whether it's boat of garden or maybe Lanark
322
00:12:34,233 --> 00:12:36,600
which of course is a a Moreland
323
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,300
but the inline course is getting a little bit more
324
00:12:39,366 --> 00:12:41,600
attraction and a little bit more appreciation
325
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,600
so I don't think it's a reflection of the fact that we
326
00:12:45,766 --> 00:12:47,700
have one preference over one of the other
327
00:12:47,833 --> 00:12:49,700
it's just that there's a the
328
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:50,833
the type of golf we like
329
00:12:50,833 --> 00:12:52,666
is dominated on those landscapes
330
00:12:52,666 --> 00:12:53,866
yeah very much so
331
00:12:53,866 --> 00:12:55,700
my camera's gone off so um
332
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:59,000
it's overheated in the Scottish sun on the YouTube
333
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,100
if everyone wants to see me uh
334
00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:03,400
in all my glory
335
00:13:03,533 --> 00:13:06,066
it's because it's too hot currently in Scotland
336
00:13:06,066 --> 00:13:08,033
which is pretty damn cool
337
00:13:08,033 --> 00:13:09,700
I have to admit ha ha
338
00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:12,733
how often do you get to be able to claim that
339
00:13:13,066 --> 00:13:14,800
and so essentially
340
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,633
the really interesting thing that I want to talk about
341
00:13:18,633 --> 00:13:20,566
that one that everyone likes to talk about
342
00:13:20,566 --> 00:13:21,800
when it comes to these rankings
343
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,000
is the biggest fallers and the biggest risers
344
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,366
and it's let's be honest been a big shake up
345
00:13:27,366 --> 00:13:28,400
there's a lot of change
346
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,466
and why is there been a lot of change
347
00:13:30,466 --> 00:13:31,833
I actually think this is that
348
00:13:31,833 --> 00:13:34,600
there's a fair bit of change in terms of new entrance
349
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,800
um at the bottom of the list um
350
00:13:38,866 --> 00:13:41,733
but we also have new entrance coming in
351
00:13:42,266 --> 00:13:44,166
that aren't genuinely new
352
00:13:44,166 --> 00:13:46,266
so and that affects the ranking
353
00:13:46,266 --> 00:13:49,400
so you know the highest ranked new entrant
354
00:13:49,666 --> 00:13:52,100
um in this list and the
355
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:56,366
the highest new entrant is Cabot Highlands Old Petty um
356
00:13:56,466 --> 00:13:58,433
opened this year designed by Tom Dock
357
00:13:58,433 --> 00:14:00,700
built by Clyde Johnson um
358
00:14:00,966 --> 00:14:02,866
comes in at 51 um
359
00:14:02,866 --> 00:14:07,333
so that's a a notable ah and new genuinely new entrance
360
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:08,500
um
361
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,166
the second genuine new entrance is Trump International
362
00:14:11,166 --> 00:14:12,366
new um
363
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:14,766
and that comes in at 63
364
00:14:15,666 --> 00:14:19,000
and both of those courses have been actively
365
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,400
compared and previewed by
366
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,566
by by a number of people so I won't go back into that
367
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:27,533
and then there are the other um
368
00:14:27,966 --> 00:14:32,700
new entrants are almost the contrary of that so um
369
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,000
the highest ranked Old Course that is new to the list
370
00:14:37,233 --> 00:14:38,900
is one that really is what I
371
00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:41,166
we would call a mispricing in the past
372
00:14:41,166 --> 00:14:47,166
so it's one where previous panels of uh have not um
373
00:14:47,566 --> 00:14:48,800
really understood its
374
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,100
its charms and that it is increasingly loved
375
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,666
and believe it or not that's Eli in 5
376
00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:04,300
and Eli comes in brand new into the GBI 100 at 54 um
377
00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:06,566
and I think it's probably
378
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,433
about the right position for it
379
00:15:08,433 --> 00:15:10,300
I think it is a wonderful golf course
380
00:15:10,300 --> 00:15:11,666
it is it you know
381
00:15:11,666 --> 00:15:13,366
many people say it doesn't have variety
382
00:15:13,366 --> 00:15:14,600
cause there's so many par fours
383
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,600
but have all of those par fours are so different
384
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,300
and you don't feel that there's a lack of variety um
385
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:24,033
probably an ambiguous concept anyway but anyway
386
00:15:24,033 --> 00:15:26,466
we'll go we'll go we can go into that um
387
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,433
but it you know clearly is become increasingly loved
388
00:15:29,433 --> 00:15:31,266
increasingly busy um
389
00:15:31,466 --> 00:15:34,000
you know the membership of a quite rightly um
390
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,466
keeping some of it to themselves in the summer
391
00:15:36,466 --> 00:15:38,500
in the peak season because it's so busy
392
00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:41,966
because it really is one that has
393
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,366
really entered into the global attention
394
00:15:44,766 --> 00:15:46,066
for very good reason I mean
395
00:15:46,066 --> 00:15:48,966
the other one that's kind of like that as well is the
396
00:15:48,966 --> 00:15:50,466
the new course at Saint Andrews
397
00:15:50,766 --> 00:15:54,500
so I think for a long time the old and rightly so
398
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:57,700
it is probably from an architectural point of view
399
00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:00,666
the greatest golf course in the world um
400
00:16:00,666 --> 00:16:01,300
if you know
401
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:02,166
that's debatable
402
00:16:02,166 --> 00:16:05,400
probably along with about 5 to 10 other courses
403
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,000
but let's say that it it's probably a champion of that
404
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,066
um but yeah
405
00:16:10,066 --> 00:16:13,966
the new next door and it's a real shame that
406
00:16:13,966 --> 00:16:17,600
if people travel all the way to Saint Andrews
407
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,833
they play one course if they've bought a
408
00:16:19,833 --> 00:16:20,666
a package
409
00:16:21,433 --> 00:16:22,266
uh and then they
410
00:16:22,266 --> 00:16:24,300
they go off to Kings Barns or carneoustie
411
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:27,400
and actually what they could do is just stay ha ha ha
412
00:16:27,866 --> 00:16:28,833
right on site
413
00:16:28,833 --> 00:16:31,633
have lunch and play the second 18 in the afternoon
414
00:16:31,633 --> 00:16:34,100
and for a lot of people um
415
00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:36,766
probably enjoy it or maybe understand
416
00:16:36,766 --> 00:16:37,433
the experience
417
00:16:37,433 --> 00:16:40,100
better than what they even get on the old uh
418
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,633
it's more of a traditional quote unquote links
419
00:16:42,633 --> 00:16:45,400
if there is such a thing so it
420
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,833
it's nice to see some of these like as you say uh
421
00:16:48,833 --> 00:16:50,800
under appreciated undervalued
422
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,333
underpriced um
423
00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:56,500
courses like coming back to uh
424
00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:58,266
where where they rightly belong
425
00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:00,433
that's the one I love on on this list
426
00:17:00,433 --> 00:17:04,300
we have the oldest new course in the world
427
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:06,233
which is the new at Saint Andrews
428
00:17:06,233 --> 00:17:08,100
and we have the youngest old course
429
00:17:08,166 --> 00:17:10,800
which is the course at Trump International
430
00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:14,033
so that's a an interesting juxtaposition wow
431
00:17:14,033 --> 00:17:15,100
that is very cool isn't it
432
00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:17,400
this podcast is brought to you by Echo Shoes
433
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,866
particularly the new Biom C5 David
434
00:17:19,866 --> 00:17:22,066
I know you have a wee bit of a fondness for an Echo
435
00:17:22,066 --> 00:17:22,766
yeah no
436
00:17:22,766 --> 00:17:23,166
no doubt
437
00:17:23,166 --> 00:17:25,433
I am literally a walking advertisement for Echo
438
00:17:25,433 --> 00:17:26,566
and I can honestly say
439
00:17:26,566 --> 00:17:28,400
I played the world top hundred in my echoes
440
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,800
I spent years running around
441
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:30,066
you know
442
00:17:30,066 --> 00:17:32,100
diving around tennis court and stuff like that for
443
00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:33,400
for a really long time
444
00:17:33,433 --> 00:17:35,566
and that takes a toll because it was hard courts
445
00:17:35,666 --> 00:17:37,100
and so hard courts there's a lot of
446
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:40,300
you know things going on with your feet and and as I
447
00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:42,366
when I started to get a little bit older
448
00:17:42,366 --> 00:17:43,500
not even old you know
449
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,966
like in in my 30s I had
450
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,700
you know my feet were bothering me
451
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:50,000
when I had to do long walks and stuff like that
452
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,666
I mean four and a/2 miles is the standard golf ride
453
00:17:52,766 --> 00:17:53,966
so four and a/2 miles right
454
00:17:53,966 --> 00:17:56,433
so four and a/2 miles of walking when your feet hurt
455
00:17:56,433 --> 00:17:57,966
it's the worst thing ever
456
00:17:57,966 --> 00:17:58,366
and like
457
00:17:58,366 --> 00:18:01,666
I had so many rounds where I would get done and
458
00:18:01,666 --> 00:18:04,566
you know when I first started playing golf and I just
459
00:18:04,566 --> 00:18:05,366
I couldn't take it like
460
00:18:05,366 --> 00:18:06,233
I had to get the shoes off
461
00:18:06,233 --> 00:18:08,000
and my feet were just throbbing
462
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,400
and you know I I ran into Echo probably in
463
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:12,900
you know 2007 2008
464
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:14,466
2009 whatever the year was
465
00:18:14,466 --> 00:18:16,800
it was before I started my journey really for the for
466
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,600
for playing the world top hundred yeah
467
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,500
as if you're doing the world's uh
468
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:21,233
top 100
469
00:18:21,233 --> 00:18:24,066
you need to be able to trust where your clubs are going
470
00:18:24,066 --> 00:18:26,400
and never get sore feet exactly
471
00:18:26,933 --> 00:18:28,900
yeah the rest you can sort out along the way
472
00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:32,833
so just a couple of uh things about the Echo BMC5
473
00:18:32,833 --> 00:18:34,666
every detail's crafted for the perfect feel
474
00:18:34,666 --> 00:18:36,000
and I know David
475
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,100
and his many adventures in golf have enjoyed
476
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:39,000
echoes over the years
477
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,066
but these have been designed to play
478
00:18:40,066 --> 00:18:41,900
and built for comfort so uh
479
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,766
thank you very much Echo appreciate it a lot
480
00:18:44,633 --> 00:18:46,200
uh yeah again I'm sorry to all
481
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,233
we've had a I'm having a nightmare here up in Scotland
482
00:18:49,233 --> 00:18:51,666
it everything's just overheating and causing trouble
483
00:18:51,766 --> 00:18:53,500
so it's melting oh
484
00:18:53,633 --> 00:18:56,100
it's it's it's 18 yeah
485
00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:58,833
it's it's it's definitely taps off weather
486
00:18:58,833 --> 00:18:59,900
let's just say that
487
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,166
Prince Street Gardens
488
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,200
in Edinburgh has about 40 million topless Scotsman
489
00:19:07,633 --> 00:19:09,633
with drinking swaggy
490
00:19:09,633 --> 00:19:13,566
and cans of beer that they've bought in the local offy
491
00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:15,700
I would not be surprised
492
00:19:16,433 --> 00:19:19,600
it honestly will look like a scene from the south of
493
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:20,700
France right now
494
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,666
and one of those newest features and right OK
495
00:19:25,966 --> 00:19:29,900
so I'm sorry I missed a lot of that
496
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:33,566
I know you I lost connection when it came to Eli
497
00:19:33,566 --> 00:19:37,966
and I just trusted the fact that as a James Brad fan
498
00:19:38,466 --> 00:19:41,233
and and his birthplace or well
499
00:19:41,233 --> 00:19:44,200
Earl's Ferry but every it's the same time I
500
00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:47,633
you would only say nice things
501
00:19:47,633 --> 00:19:51,500
and that's fine with me because everyone knows
502
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:54,633
you know you are taking a little bit of a liberty
503
00:19:54,633 --> 00:19:56,200
cause he was born in Liberty
504
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,366
which is next to Elsferry um
505
00:19:58,366 --> 00:19:58,833
but anyway
506
00:19:58,833 --> 00:20:03,666
I'm joking I'm full of the really bad dad puns today um
507
00:20:03,666 --> 00:20:07,266
so we yeah um yeah we did we we we yeah
508
00:20:07,266 --> 00:20:10,533
braid proposed works at Eli but um
509
00:20:10,633 --> 00:20:12,866
it's a moot point as to whether anything
510
00:20:12,866 --> 00:20:14,200
was ever put in place and in fact
511
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,500
that the members voted down formally twice his plan um
512
00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:21,400
both in I think the 30s and the 50s um
513
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,866
but yeah the Ely is a wonderful golf course
514
00:20:23,966 --> 00:20:26,100
the members do claim one green though
515
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:28,666
am I right in saying they claim that braids greens
516
00:20:28,666 --> 00:20:32,466
the would it be 12/13 12
517
00:20:32,466 --> 00:20:35,300
um yeah yeah it did it did again
518
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:37,900
it's something I need to dig deeper into um
519
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:39,333
when I return there um
520
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:40,700
um the other thing
521
00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,566
I did discover this last year in my research
522
00:20:43,566 --> 00:20:47,033
is that he actually designed the course next door
523
00:20:47,033 --> 00:20:48,800
which is called the Bad Course
524
00:20:49,366 --> 00:20:53,600
because it was set on land owned by a Mr Beard um
525
00:20:53,633 --> 00:20:56,000
which was Ely Ladies Course
526
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,566
which is now Ely Sports Club
527
00:20:58,666 --> 00:21:00,966
the nine hole he designed that
528
00:21:01,166 --> 00:21:03,000
it's very interesting
529
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,366
and it's virtually as he designed uh
530
00:21:05,466 --> 00:21:08,433
another example of brave designing a ladies course uh
531
00:21:08,433 --> 00:21:09,500
which is interesting anyway
532
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:09,766
let's
533
00:21:09,766 --> 00:21:12,466
this is not the James Brad Show we should move on um
534
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:16,000
and um yes so the last one of the sort of um
535
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,733
new entrance of
536
00:21:17,866 --> 00:21:20,266
established courses that maybe have changed
537
00:21:20,266 --> 00:21:21,833
and this one's changed in routing
538
00:21:21,833 --> 00:21:24,100
for fairly notable reasons I
539
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:25,500
e the open um
540
00:21:25,566 --> 00:21:27,366
in at No. 81 is uh
541
00:21:27,366 --> 00:21:29,800
Robert Rush the Valley Course um
542
00:21:29,866 --> 00:21:31,100
which had um
543
00:21:31,233 --> 00:21:32,600
lost some holes to the Open
544
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,266
Championship course to Dunluce uh
545
00:21:35,266 --> 00:21:38,100
and has been moved around a little bit to
546
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:41,200
enable more practice more tented village and um
547
00:21:42,033 --> 00:21:42,766
uh actually
548
00:21:42,766 --> 00:21:45,166
you know a short course for the children as well um
549
00:21:45,233 --> 00:21:47,333
which is a a welcome thing um
550
00:21:47,466 --> 00:21:49,933
but that comes in at No. 81
551
00:21:49,966 --> 00:21:51,500
so and there are some more
552
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:52,500
entrance at the bottom of the list
553
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:54,533
but those we can get to later
554
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,700
and so yeah it's good to see that representative
555
00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:00,000
I mean four from Scotland
556
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,933
one from Ireland and I think we're at
557
00:22:06,233 --> 00:22:08,466
well let's see 7
558
00:22:08,633 --> 00:22:10,666
7 from England which we can get to in a little bit
559
00:22:10,666 --> 00:22:13,000
so there definitely has been some change
560
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,300
I think that's the thing to note too
561
00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:15,100
is that
562
00:22:15,700 --> 00:22:17,166
you know when you get to the GBI
563
00:22:17,166 --> 00:22:19,466
everything that you do at county level is amplified
564
00:22:19,466 --> 00:22:21,300
every time you go up or down
565
00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:23,766
so although there's not really much in it
566
00:22:23,766 --> 00:22:27,000
between old petty Eli um
567
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,800
and Trump International new
568
00:22:30,233 --> 00:22:32,133
um there is a bit of a spread
569
00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:35,866
about 12 points or 12 ranking places um
570
00:22:35,866 --> 00:22:37,166
between them once you get to GBN
571
00:22:37,166 --> 00:22:39,666
I just because of the way it works
572
00:22:39,666 --> 00:22:41,700
and the competition that they find the
573
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:43,800
the tier they find themselves in
574
00:22:44,033 --> 00:22:46,766
so if it's a particularly strong English tier
575
00:22:46,866 --> 00:22:48,700
or the top end of it you've got quite
576
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:51,800
a lot of like really good Irish courses yeah
577
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,600
um
578
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:54,600
that's where you can get that spread
579
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,000
so although it's one or two difference in Scotland
580
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,300
by the time you get to GBI and then even the world
581
00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:02,000
you know you can be talking five to 10 places
582
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,766
and then maybe even more when you get to the world
583
00:23:03,766 --> 00:23:06,066
so yeah very interesting to see how that will pan out
584
00:23:06,066 --> 00:23:07,433
in terms of the biggest movers
585
00:23:07,433 --> 00:23:08,666
we'll come to those English
586
00:23:08,666 --> 00:23:10,300
new entrance in a wee while
587
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:12,533
we'll do a little bit of the movers um
588
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,500
the notable movers probably that that the as I said
589
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,266
the top 30
590
00:23:17,266 --> 00:23:19,633
is very much prescribed from the global list
591
00:23:19,633 --> 00:23:22,266
which will be refreshed in in autumn
592
00:23:22,366 --> 00:23:24,500
so there may be a slight rejig of this
593
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:26,900
and the other country lists uh
594
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:28,000
at that time
595
00:23:28,566 --> 00:23:30,600
um due to being pushed down on that
596
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:31,866
which is which is fine
597
00:23:31,866 --> 00:23:33,200
we're pushing up in this process
598
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,033
we're gonna push down in the other process
599
00:23:35,033 --> 00:23:37,366
it's a two directional thing um
600
00:23:37,366 --> 00:23:39,600
but the most notable climber
601
00:23:39,766 --> 00:23:41,300
higher in the list is Formby
602
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:42,500
which comes um
603
00:23:42,566 --> 00:23:47,466
up 13 places to 39 and we discuss that on the
604
00:23:47,466 --> 00:23:49,700
the English pod and County
605
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,200
Louth has a nice move up about 8 points
606
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,600
and by far the largest climber
607
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,400
and again this is somewhat of a historic mispricing
608
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,700
or miss misunderrating of its charms
609
00:24:01,266 --> 00:24:05,400
and this one you will not be surprised of my uh
610
00:24:05,666 --> 00:24:07,033
joy at um
611
00:24:07,033 --> 00:24:09,000
but as I say I'm only one 1 vote in a
612
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000
in a system is Bruro in Scotland uh
613
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,033
which climbs an incredible 40 points in this analysis
614
00:24:15,033 --> 00:24:17,333
and is by far the biggest mover um
615
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,266
to 59 um
616
00:24:19,366 --> 00:24:20,466
and um
617
00:24:21,066 --> 00:24:21,866
you know
618
00:24:23,033 --> 00:24:23,766
I'll I'll let
619
00:24:23,766 --> 00:24:25,766
let you guys um uh uh uh
620
00:24:26,366 --> 00:24:28,100
talk about Bora because um
621
00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:30,100
I don't wish to be seen to be biased
622
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:32,700
I absolutely love it and I think
623
00:24:32,766 --> 00:24:33,900
I think they've recently
624
00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:35,900
voted to remove the livestock from the links
625
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:38,400
haven't they it's still in discussion
626
00:24:38,966 --> 00:24:40,166
it's still in discussion okay
627
00:24:40,166 --> 00:24:41,866
so I can I can
628
00:24:41,866 --> 00:24:43,466
we can go deep into detail
629
00:24:43,466 --> 00:24:44,566
but we don't have enough time
630
00:24:44,566 --> 00:24:47,766
the bros stuff it's an amazing golf course yes
631
00:24:47,766 --> 00:24:52,133
it's cool to see a cow but that's not a
632
00:24:52,766 --> 00:24:54,100
it's not what we rate on
633
00:24:54,266 --> 00:24:57,600
the worst job of all is being the intern green keeper
634
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,733
and with out with a shit a
635
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:03,466
a shovel and a bucket and that's your morning anyway
636
00:25:03,466 --> 00:25:05,833
so but it deserves to be up there
637
00:25:05,833 --> 00:25:08,066
because it's been recognized
638
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:11,566
repeatedly by all our panelists to somewhere
639
00:25:11,566 --> 00:25:12,966
they love to play golf
640
00:25:13,766 --> 00:25:14,566
yes in many ways
641
00:25:14,566 --> 00:25:17,133
I think the livestock actually um
642
00:25:17,433 --> 00:25:20,300
masks its architectural strength agree
643
00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:21,233
I think that's true
644
00:25:21,233 --> 00:25:23,600
I think it's very good for its marketing
645
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,433
I think it's great and it's great for turf conditions
646
00:25:26,433 --> 00:25:26,866
and you know
647
00:25:26,866 --> 00:25:29,100
it's actually and you know
648
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:30,200
certainly the sheep manage
649
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,400
rough is as good as I've played all last year
650
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,066
um when I actually went up for the James
651
00:25:36,066 --> 00:25:38,100
Brad Society meeting um
652
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:40,700
and yeah just a joy to play um
653
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,166
in that respect so
654
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,000
there's a very positive aspect to the livestock
655
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,100
in terms of how it plays and how firm it is
656
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:48,733
and how playable the rough is um
657
00:25:49,066 --> 00:25:49,500
but yeah
658
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:52,900
I do think sometimes it gets overshadowed as to how
659
00:25:52,900 --> 00:25:54,733
quite how good a design it is
660
00:25:55,266 --> 00:25:56,433
and I know we've
661
00:25:56,433 --> 00:25:58,500
we've moved definitely past English counties
662
00:25:58,500 --> 00:25:59,966
and English but I mean
663
00:25:59,966 --> 00:26:02,033
the other course that like
664
00:26:02,033 --> 00:26:05,100
I just go back to my beloved Minchinhampton it
665
00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:07,100
it is such an astonishing golf course
666
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:09,366
and I think no one takes it seriously because yeah
667
00:26:09,366 --> 00:26:10,800
there is like about
668
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,266
six different types of livestock
669
00:26:12,266 --> 00:26:15,366
that you'll come across plus dogs yeah um
670
00:26:15,366 --> 00:26:16,866
and birds once you
671
00:26:16,866 --> 00:26:18,466
once you get out there and it's sort of like well
672
00:26:18,466 --> 00:26:20,466
this is really really good golf um
673
00:26:20,466 --> 00:26:21,633
but you can't really take it seriously
674
00:26:21,633 --> 00:26:23,300
because there's a few like
675
00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:25,000
animals roaming around and
676
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,433
and I think to your point
677
00:26:26,433 --> 00:26:28,966
that's maybe where we got to in the past where
678
00:26:29,266 --> 00:26:31,700
you know if it wasn't a polished resort offering
679
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:33,000
then it didn't do quite as well
680
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,166
but those days seem to be um
681
00:26:35,433 --> 00:26:38,466
well and truly behind us at top 100 so yeah
682
00:26:38,466 --> 00:26:40,466
Aurora well and truly um
683
00:26:40,466 --> 00:26:42,500
do you know deserves to be where it is Jasper
684
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:43,233
do you know where
685
00:26:43,233 --> 00:26:46,400
I think the next golf course that's gonna join the Eli
686
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,833
this is me future sighting
687
00:26:48,833 --> 00:26:51,533
a golf course that's gonna join the Eli Brora
688
00:26:52,166 --> 00:26:56,266
Epsom's of just seriously good golf on great land
689
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,800
and I was shocked that didn't make the G P
690
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,700
and I was is Goswick I
691
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:04,100
I don't think people realize
692
00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:05,900
how good that golf course is
693
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:09,333
and there's been work just finished there
694
00:27:09,833 --> 00:27:13,800
and it's just a shame that it's not quite in this go
695
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:14,700
reach this cycle
696
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:18,766
it's just finished and to take away their worst hole
697
00:27:18,766 --> 00:27:20,700
but the rest of it is so good yeah
698
00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:22,866
I think you're you're right to highlight it
699
00:27:22,866 --> 00:27:25,200
it very definitely was a candidate for this list
700
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:26,300
clubs that um
701
00:27:27,033 --> 00:27:28,300
ah near misses
702
00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:30,700
near misses in Ireland were Naran
703
00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:32,600
and Port New was in the last list
704
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:33,400
and um
705
00:27:34,033 --> 00:27:36,366
ah comes out this time um
706
00:27:36,566 --> 00:27:39,233
Port Salon was pretty close uh
707
00:27:39,233 --> 00:27:41,100
Ballydehob Old was pretty close
708
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:43,500
so there's three in Ireland there that were very
709
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:45,700
under serious consideration um
710
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:48,700
by the ranking output um
711
00:27:49,266 --> 00:27:52,966
in Scotland uh the Queen's at Gleneagles
712
00:27:53,633 --> 00:27:56,366
Boat of Garten which we mentioned already
713
00:27:56,366 --> 00:27:58,766
Lanark which we mentioned already um
714
00:27:58,766 --> 00:28:00,766
and then you got Murcia and Panmure
715
00:28:00,766 --> 00:28:03,500
so those courses are banging the door down
716
00:28:03,500 --> 00:28:04,766
trying to get uh
717
00:28:04,766 --> 00:28:10,900
in um in Wales Conwy was the next next one standing uh
718
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:15,500
for consideration and then in England you have um
719
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,500
you know the refresh went with Club East Course
720
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:22,933
which a Harry Colt gem that Robin Hisman's done some
721
00:28:23,433 --> 00:28:25,333
renovation work on recently
722
00:28:25,966 --> 00:28:30,000
a Farnham New Zealand which is just charming um
723
00:28:30,166 --> 00:28:31,900
you know obviously um
724
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:35,133
you know some of your more Ferguson
725
00:28:35,633 --> 00:28:38,366
followed by the great Tom Simpson uh
726
00:28:38,366 --> 00:28:40,000
gosick as you said
727
00:28:40,033 --> 00:28:41,866
Delamere Forest which again is
728
00:28:41,866 --> 00:28:43,600
you know wonderful um
729
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:44,700
and uh
730
00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:46,700
the West Coast at Saulton uh
731
00:28:46,766 --> 00:28:49,166
was very much banging the door down
732
00:28:49,166 --> 00:28:52,666
so there's just great quality not on the list
733
00:28:52,666 --> 00:28:55,700
and I could probably give you another 25 below
734
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:58,100
those that are very similar um
735
00:28:58,300 --> 00:29:00,000
such as the strength in GBN
736
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:00,700
I well
737
00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:03,666
with the way that we now format the list
738
00:29:03,666 --> 00:29:05,900
and the way that we bring it all together
739
00:29:06,033 --> 00:29:08,966
it kind of works in the way that we know what our next
740
00:29:09,833 --> 00:29:12,400
you know 10 possibilities are
741
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,600
next 20 possibilities are
742
00:29:14,766 --> 00:29:16,166
it's quite obvious to us
743
00:29:16,166 --> 00:29:20,233
and that makes for sad reading for someone like myself
744
00:29:20,233 --> 00:29:23,400
who's a number of those courses think
745
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,200
I just don't understand why they're not loved more and
746
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:28,600
but it does show
747
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,700
that the strength of the bottom 10 is huge
748
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,166
and I think that's probably the hardest section of any
749
00:29:35,166 --> 00:29:37,600
uh any ranking is the bottom 10
750
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,033
I think that's that's true
751
00:29:39,033 --> 00:29:39,933
and the
752
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,900
it's the same in all sports right
753
00:29:42,900 --> 00:29:45,000
if you've got promotion and relegation
754
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:45,800
it's uh
755
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,433
it's keenly fought over so uh
756
00:29:48,433 --> 00:29:49,400
I think uh
757
00:29:49,833 --> 00:29:50,433
I'll uh
758
00:29:50,433 --> 00:29:50,900
I'll I'll
759
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:52,100
I'll move it over to
760
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:54,833
to Jasper to start this part of the discussion
761
00:29:54,833 --> 00:29:56,466
and then I'll dive in as the
762
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:57,633
as he as he
763
00:29:57,633 --> 00:29:59,100
as he gives me opportunity
764
00:29:59,200 --> 00:29:59,700
ha ha yeah
765
00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:01,600
so the the bottom 10
766
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:02,466
I mean this is
767
00:30:02,466 --> 00:30:03,800
it's obviously uh
768
00:30:03,966 --> 00:30:05,033
you know as you say
769
00:30:05,033 --> 00:30:06,600
once you get promoted or relegated
770
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,000
there's a lot that goes on in that
771
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,966
that last section or last tier
772
00:30:09,966 --> 00:30:11,700
if you will um
773
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:13,200
so we've got eight from England
774
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,666
and this is where the depth of England
775
00:30:14,666 --> 00:30:17,300
starts to take over so once you get down to
776
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:19,866
like the last 20 courses in this ranking
777
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:20,600
uh the
778
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,900
the GBI ranking the depth that you see in England
779
00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:26,333
really comes to the fore um
780
00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:30,900
so you've got one from uh
781
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:33,566
Wales and that's Aberdovey um
782
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:36,733
and then you've also got Castletown
783
00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:38,533
so that's uh
784
00:30:38,566 --> 00:30:42,433
was I think included for in previous rankings uh
785
00:30:42,433 --> 00:30:47,066
on GBI and then has more or less retained where it was
786
00:30:47,066 --> 00:30:48,833
um so yeah
787
00:30:48,833 --> 00:30:50,766
a really good golf course um
788
00:30:50,766 --> 00:30:52,100
not many people have seen it
789
00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:53,533
a handful uh
790
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:54,966
get over there
791
00:30:54,966 --> 00:30:58,233
there's quite a lot of golf on the islands actually um
792
00:30:58,233 --> 00:30:58,900
once you get over there
793
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:01,266
but Castle Town is heads and shoulders above the rest
794
00:31:01,300 --> 00:31:04,666
and it is a a pretty striking piece of land um
795
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,666
there's a lot of coastline just because of the
796
00:31:07,666 --> 00:31:10,400
the position of the course um
797
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:11,900
and I think they are keen to
798
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:15,766
to do a little bit of work as well moving forward uh
799
00:31:15,766 --> 00:31:18,666
because I think I've heard that the
800
00:31:18,666 --> 00:31:21,366
the the hotel that used to sit in ruins behind
801
00:31:21,366 --> 00:31:25,200
beside the clubhouse is now being torn down
802
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,500
or has been torn down and they've got grand plans
803
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:29,066
to put something else up there
804
00:31:29,133 --> 00:31:30,766
and no doubt with the investment that's going in
805
00:31:30,766 --> 00:31:33,000
they wanna make it uh match this
806
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:33,600
the the course
807
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,633
the stature of whatever they've got planned so yeah
808
00:31:35,633 --> 00:31:37,166
Castle Town is uh
809
00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:39,066
is quite exciting
810
00:31:39,666 --> 00:31:39,866
uh to
811
00:31:39,866 --> 00:31:42,166
to see it there but also to see what the future holds
812
00:31:42,366 --> 00:31:46,100
and then you get down to I mean just some class acts
813
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:47,100
uh Albert is one to
814
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:49,100
to look out for uh
815
00:31:49,166 --> 00:31:51,100
they've done quite a lot of work
816
00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:53,100
I think there is one hole on the course that Mackenzie
817
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:55,100
Neibert didn't touch uh
818
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:57,366
which was a a cult on the back nine
819
00:31:57,366 --> 00:32:00,700
now you you've got uh
820
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,166
Simon and Jasper here with you
821
00:32:02,166 --> 00:32:05,566
so we won't go too far into
822
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:05,966
you know
823
00:32:05,966 --> 00:32:09,433
the traditionalist side of how much has been changed
824
00:32:09,433 --> 00:32:12,700
and why but I think any of the
825
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:15,566
any of the reports that we've heard back
826
00:32:15,566 --> 00:32:19,566
is that it's anything but homogeneous um
827
00:32:19,866 --> 00:32:20,900
the bunkers actually
828
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:23,400
look different than a lot of stuff that you see them uh
829
00:32:23,433 --> 00:32:25,166
playing and I don't know
830
00:32:25,166 --> 00:32:26,766
I don't think there's a lot of sand traps
831
00:32:26,766 --> 00:32:28,866
which they've become known for recently
832
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,700
so Al Bura looks to be very good
833
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:34,066
I'm getting there sometime next month
834
00:32:34,066 --> 00:32:35,633
I believe um
835
00:32:35,633 --> 00:32:38,366
but the panelist that we did have uh
836
00:32:38,366 --> 00:32:40,700
to see it already obviously seen
837
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,266
felt that it should rise in England
838
00:32:42,266 --> 00:32:45,366
and it's got its way into GBI
839
00:32:46,066 --> 00:32:48,100
I think some of the other ones as well uh
840
00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:51,766
Bo desert just sneaks in at 100 uh
841
00:32:51,766 --> 00:32:52,700
and that's a course that
842
00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:54,966
I think we'll continue to see rise
843
00:32:54,966 --> 00:32:58,166
they've done some amazing work with trees um
844
00:32:58,233 --> 00:33:01,833
and renovation restoration
845
00:33:01,833 --> 00:33:02,700
if you will
846
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:05,566
so that's been a steady riser
847
00:33:05,566 --> 00:33:07,100
but I think it's one of those courses that
848
00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:08,300
the more people go to see it
849
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:09,800
and the more they play it
850
00:33:10,233 --> 00:33:12,466
we'll start to realize how good it actually is
851
00:33:12,466 --> 00:33:14,066
it's a great example of um
852
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,500
what is actually
853
00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:19,066
handful of courses by the great Herbert Fowler um
854
00:33:19,366 --> 00:33:20,266
and um
855
00:33:20,266 --> 00:33:23,266
and for that we're we're truly blessed that it's a
856
00:33:24,366 --> 00:33:25,500
that it's there in in it
857
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:26,066
in it in it
858
00:33:26,066 --> 00:33:28,100
in its own instance but um
859
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:29,966
that it can make the list is uh
860
00:33:29,966 --> 00:33:31,533
is there by right um
861
00:33:31,566 --> 00:33:34,500
but it's nice to celebrate one of the great architects
862
00:33:34,666 --> 00:33:37,200
I think one of the best short fours in
863
00:33:37,466 --> 00:33:38,966
in golf I mean
864
00:33:38,966 --> 00:33:39,633
it is it
865
00:33:39,633 --> 00:33:42,066
it is like a a par three and a/2
866
00:33:42,066 --> 00:33:44,900
if you've ever it's about 2:40 from the tee
867
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:47,666
and if you don't try and go for the green um
868
00:33:47,666 --> 00:33:49,966
you still have to hit a really good shot as a layup it
869
00:33:49,966 --> 00:33:51,866
it's a spectacular hole uh
870
00:33:51,866 --> 00:33:53,700
that is worth going on its own uh
871
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:54,500
and then 18
872
00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:56,800
might be one of the better finishing holes in
873
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,166
in all of England golf um wow
874
00:33:59,166 --> 00:34:00,866
yeah cracking golf course
875
00:34:00,866 --> 00:34:03,366
and I think hayling is probably similar
876
00:34:03,633 --> 00:34:05,933
I think Hayling's been an underappreciated
877
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,433
links course on the south of England
878
00:34:07,433 --> 00:34:08,866
just because there's not a lot there
879
00:34:08,866 --> 00:34:10,133
I mean after Rye
880
00:34:11,366 --> 00:34:11,800
basically
881
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,866
you have to get to Cornwall to find anything of note
882
00:34:13,866 --> 00:34:16,166
so I think Helen finally cracks in
883
00:34:16,166 --> 00:34:18,166
but that's just after years of of effort
884
00:34:18,166 --> 00:34:20,333
I know one of our panelists is uh
885
00:34:20,433 --> 00:34:25,000
organizes uh the English Golf Amateur events and um
886
00:34:25,266 --> 00:34:29,400
they've got a event at a Bodega this year
887
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,866
and he's really excited to see it against these guys
888
00:34:33,866 --> 00:34:37,233
cause he's saying it's very short comparatively
889
00:34:37,233 --> 00:34:38,500
but it's gonna be complex
890
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,033
and it's gonna be difficult for these guys
891
00:34:40,033 --> 00:34:41,800
to be able to manoeuvre
892
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,733
and understand how to play there
893
00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:45,033
which is exciting yeah
894
00:34:45,033 --> 00:34:46,966
that is exciting and the other
895
00:34:46,966 --> 00:34:47,966
the other ones in the
896
00:34:47,966 --> 00:34:50,666
the bottom of the list from England that have uh
897
00:34:50,666 --> 00:34:51,600
have come in
898
00:34:53,066 --> 00:34:55,000
the wonderful we spoke about Fowler
899
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:55,833
Walton Heath
900
00:34:55,833 --> 00:34:59,200
New Course was originally the Relief Course
901
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,600
nine holes designed by Fowler
902
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,666
and another nine holes by Fowler and braid
903
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,866
and that's that's in
904
00:35:08,266 --> 00:35:11,500
another one that tends to be overlooked um
905
00:35:11,633 --> 00:35:13,733
not overlooked that's wrong um
906
00:35:13,966 --> 00:35:18,000
maybe not given the sort of headlines that
907
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,866
that it should um
908
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,466
because the England's golf coast is so strong
909
00:35:23,466 --> 00:35:25,800
is Southport and Ainsdale um
910
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,866
and the team there are doing an incredible job
911
00:35:28,966 --> 00:35:31,100
of improving playing conditions
912
00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:34,333
and doing a renovation work
913
00:35:34,566 --> 00:35:36,200
and majority internally
914
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,500
majority of that is being done internally
915
00:35:38,833 --> 00:35:41,566
and being done with great care and
916
00:35:41,566 --> 00:35:46,866
and the playing surfaces consequently um
917
00:35:47,166 --> 00:35:51,466
are a joy to play on in terms of what we look for um
918
00:35:51,466 --> 00:35:52,800
they're true to the links land
919
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,666
and great variety of holes and
920
00:35:55,866 --> 00:35:58,566
you know the wonderfully named Gumbies um
921
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,966
which is a a par 5 on the back nine with an enormous um
922
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:07,300
you know sleeper faced bunker set into a hill for a a
923
00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:08,733
a blind approach
924
00:36:09,233 --> 00:36:12,466
and that puts the fear of god into many a person um
925
00:36:12,466 --> 00:36:14,900
so yeah great that that
926
00:36:14,966 --> 00:36:17,666
you know comes into the list at 95 and
927
00:36:17,666 --> 00:36:19,300
and joins its uh it's
928
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:21,433
it's it's neighbours uh
929
00:36:21,433 --> 00:36:23,100
there Southbourne end of Dale
930
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:28,233
just quickly and yes 11:59 no sorry
931
00:36:28,233 --> 00:36:31,366
one to 10 or no eleven
932
00:36:32,266 --> 00:36:32,833
yeah is
933
00:36:32,833 --> 00:36:36,800
is arguably better stretch of golf than the three
934
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,900
the two courses next to it in terms of Hillside and um
935
00:36:41,366 --> 00:36:42,266
a Berkdale
936
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,233
but yeah it's that section that just
937
00:36:45,233 --> 00:36:47,766
in the back nine that lets it down so much
938
00:36:47,766 --> 00:36:50,500
because it is the golf and uh
939
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:50,966
on that
940
00:36:50,966 --> 00:36:54,100
and the clubhouse side of the property is incredible
941
00:36:54,866 --> 00:36:57,100
the the variety is so good
942
00:36:57,100 --> 00:36:57,833
yeah I think yeah
943
00:36:57,833 --> 00:36:59,066
is it I think is it the eighth
944
00:36:59,066 --> 00:37:01,300
the part 3 which is just phenomenal
945
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:02,200
um yeah
946
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:02,433
no it
947
00:37:02,433 --> 00:37:02,600
it it
948
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,800
it has got great variety
949
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,166
and there was a couple of reroutings done
950
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,800
Bray designed it um
951
00:37:09,033 --> 00:37:10,266
you know earlier in the in
952
00:37:10,266 --> 00:37:12,066
in the last century um
953
00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:14,566
it's held two Ryder Cups back when they
954
00:37:14,566 --> 00:37:17,266
chose good courses for Ryder Cups um
955
00:37:17,266 --> 00:37:21,033
and the um that's unfair
956
00:37:21,033 --> 00:37:22,500
when we now choose a tournament course
957
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,300
as opposed to a bad course um
958
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,000
you know we choose courses that are set for the event
959
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,466
rather than for the golf um
960
00:37:30,466 --> 00:37:31,766
and um
961
00:37:32,466 --> 00:37:34,266
yeah it is really a uh
962
00:37:34,633 --> 00:37:38,233
a fantastic uh a fantastic edition um
963
00:37:38,233 --> 00:37:39,500
and then the other two uh
964
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:42,300
Royal Ashdown Forest um Bunker's um
965
00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:45,266
and charming uh and Heneage um
966
00:37:45,266 --> 00:37:47,033
which um you know
967
00:37:47,033 --> 00:37:50,866
probably is the the most valid heathland course um
968
00:37:51,033 --> 00:37:51,500
in in
969
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:53,366
in the area in terms of
970
00:37:53,366 --> 00:37:56,000
really being quite constrained in its playing areas
971
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,100
and therefore
972
00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:59,833
that claustrophobia gives it a certain quiet charm
973
00:37:59,833 --> 00:38:02,533
that is a quite unique um
974
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:03,266
and uh
975
00:38:03,266 --> 00:38:06,966
and well regarded well quite well regarded for that um
976
00:38:07,233 --> 00:38:09,433
I do know that it was a Peter Alice
977
00:38:09,433 --> 00:38:11,933
one of Peter Alice's favourite courses um
978
00:38:12,033 --> 00:38:13,100
back when he was with us
979
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:16,000
and he would wax lyrical about a great deal of things
980
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,233
but certainly about Hindhead
981
00:38:17,233 --> 00:38:19,633
it's an interesting thing to to look at too
982
00:38:19,633 --> 00:38:20,833
when you look at these courses
983
00:38:20,833 --> 00:38:22,566
I mean inevitably I get a
984
00:38:22,566 --> 00:38:24,066
an inbox full of a
985
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:28,033
either glowing letters of appreciation for the ranking
986
00:38:28,033 --> 00:38:29,600
and I say yep
987
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,166
that's the panel so you know I will pass it on uh
988
00:38:33,166 --> 00:38:35,100
and then inevitably um
989
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:39,066
we also get um fan mail of a different tone
990
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,500
with courses that have fallen out
991
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:42,633
now that that could be at any ranking
992
00:38:42,633 --> 00:38:44,733
whether that's county country or
993
00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:47,700
or GBI or potentially even the world
994
00:38:47,966 --> 00:38:49,700
and that's just the hazards of the job
995
00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:50,633
what's interesting though
996
00:38:50,633 --> 00:38:51,866
is that when you look through those
997
00:38:51,866 --> 00:38:55,066
say last 20 courses that are in GBI
998
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,000
the vast majority of them
999
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,566
have had good management of their golf courses
1000
00:39:00,433 --> 00:39:02,133
over decades
1001
00:39:02,633 --> 00:39:05,666
so they haven't needed to do loads of work
1002
00:39:05,666 --> 00:39:07,433
because they've had good hygiene programs
1003
00:39:07,433 --> 00:39:11,166
but a lot of the courses that have nudged their way in
1004
00:39:11,266 --> 00:39:13,366
have done a lot of work
1005
00:39:13,366 --> 00:39:18,700
good work and predominantly around things like um
1006
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,266
yeah restoration
1007
00:39:20,266 --> 00:39:21,800
proper restoration um
1008
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,700
Morton is one that sticks out
1009
00:39:23,766 --> 00:39:25,866
it was in previously um
1010
00:39:25,866 --> 00:39:28,766
but moves up slightly to 91 on the
1011
00:39:28,766 --> 00:39:29,766
the new ranking
1012
00:39:29,966 --> 00:39:32,600
a lot of that is down to the work that's been done
1013
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,166
to restore what uh
1014
00:39:34,366 --> 00:39:35,166
well
1015
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,666
Alister Mackenzie had there originally
1016
00:39:37,666 --> 00:39:39,866
where it made sense um
1017
00:39:39,866 --> 00:39:40,966
there have been some structural
1018
00:39:40,966 --> 00:39:42,833
changes to that golf course um
1019
00:39:42,833 --> 00:39:44,200
but then in other places too
1020
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,833
they've been able to make good changes in line with uh
1021
00:39:48,833 --> 00:39:50,966
what's been done so yeah
1022
00:39:50,966 --> 00:39:53,500
responsible restoration that is not homogenist
1023
00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:54,833
that adds a little bit of character
1024
00:39:54,833 --> 00:39:56,466
and then you see courses like Morton
1025
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,766
being rewarded for it um
1026
00:39:58,766 --> 00:39:59,866
yeah it's good to see
1027
00:39:59,866 --> 00:40:00,666
but it just shows
1028
00:40:00,666 --> 00:40:03,666
that our rankings are trying to be a reflection of
1029
00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:06,200
good architectural design
1030
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,933
but then also coupled with proper agronomy
1031
00:40:11,300 --> 00:40:13,400
tree management good
1032
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,166
good management of Heather where
1033
00:40:15,166 --> 00:40:16,366
where it exists
1034
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:17,500
um and
1035
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:18,766
and presenting a course
1036
00:40:18,766 --> 00:40:20,866
bringing all three of those cogs together
1037
00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:21,566
um to
1038
00:40:21,566 --> 00:40:22,600
to make sure that it's
1039
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,466
it's dialed in and to be on this list you need to be
1040
00:40:25,566 --> 00:40:28,066
and maybe that's something to say if you're here
1041
00:40:28,833 --> 00:40:30,066
it's not an accident you
1042
00:40:30,066 --> 00:40:32,700
there's a tremendous amount of work that goes into
1043
00:40:33,033 --> 00:40:35,666
like collectively at a golf club getting on this list
1044
00:40:35,666 --> 00:40:37,900
I do I do want to say that
1045
00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:39,500
I think you're wrong about one thing
1046
00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:42,466
on what you just said and that's uh
1047
00:40:43,166 --> 00:40:45,666
after speaking to you or or on the
1048
00:40:45,666 --> 00:40:46,800
when the rankings get released
1049
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,866
and all the things come through and uh
1050
00:40:48,866 --> 00:40:52,366
all these messages of love and hate come through
1051
00:40:53,233 --> 00:40:54,500
normally on the phone you're like
1052
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:55,666
when the love comes through
1053
00:40:55,666 --> 00:40:56,266
it's like oh
1054
00:40:56,266 --> 00:40:57,433
it's all my all me
1055
00:40:57,433 --> 00:40:59,566
all me I did all of that
1056
00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:01,000
and then the heat comes through
1057
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,233
you instantly say well
1058
00:41:02,233 --> 00:41:04,866
the panels it's panel panel panel yeah
1059
00:41:05,066 --> 00:41:06,100
yeah it's a panel
1060
00:41:06,233 --> 00:41:09,033
so yeah proper management strategy that
1061
00:41:09,033 --> 00:41:11,200
so no it's like a great dog for it
1062
00:41:11,366 --> 00:41:12,600
it's proper management
1063
00:41:13,466 --> 00:41:14,266
that's great
1064
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:18,066
I'll be I'll step in and be protective of my panels
1065
00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:19,566
and I know you're
1066
00:41:19,633 --> 00:41:22,733
I know you're protective of yours James as well and
1067
00:41:23,166 --> 00:41:25,300
and uh yeah
1068
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,833
it is a it is a function of of
1069
00:41:27,833 --> 00:41:29,400
of the group so um
1070
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,733
we share in the plaudits and the pain um
1071
00:41:31,966 --> 00:41:33,733
if need be um
1072
00:41:34,066 --> 00:41:35,366
quite quite happily
1073
00:41:35,366 --> 00:41:37,633
um the other consistent theme in this
1074
00:41:37,633 --> 00:41:38,800
that we've spoke about a
1075
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,100
bit on the English list is the difficulty of
1076
00:41:42,266 --> 00:41:45,966
inland courses being able to maintain
1077
00:41:46,266 --> 00:41:48,233
firm and fast conditions in the plain
1078
00:41:48,233 --> 00:41:51,766
characteristics of their original design and um
1079
00:41:52,066 --> 00:41:55,766
and we've had a few of the sort of more um
1080
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,466
inland courses um slip back a bit in the list um
1081
00:42:00,633 --> 00:42:03,266
you know like went with west for example
1082
00:42:03,266 --> 00:42:06,800
comes down a bit even a course with unbelievable
1083
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,566
deep pockets and great things to come
1084
00:42:09,566 --> 00:42:10,266
clearly
1085
00:42:10,266 --> 00:42:13,966
a Dare Manor slips in the list by about 16 points
1086
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,233
and again we've said this before
1087
00:42:16,233 --> 00:42:18,166
doesn't mean that they're terrible golf courses
1088
00:42:18,166 --> 00:42:19,500
that they've moved down
1089
00:42:19,566 --> 00:42:22,400
it's just really hard to keep um
1090
00:42:22,466 --> 00:42:23,433
those conditions
1091
00:42:23,433 --> 00:42:26,533
and keep the appreciation of those conditions um
1092
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,700
for the panel um and um
1093
00:42:29,866 --> 00:42:31,600
you know that we you know
1094
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,300
when it comes to something like a dare and Wentworth
1095
00:42:34,366 --> 00:42:36,200
um tournament golf
1096
00:42:36,566 --> 00:42:38,933
and the history of tournament golf
1097
00:42:38,966 --> 00:42:42,200
is a very small part of the history of a course
1098
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,500
and it's not something that we consider
1099
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:46,066
within our rankings um
1100
00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:49,966
some other ranking um schemes do and that's fine um
1101
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,666
but we are very much focused on on
1102
00:42:52,666 --> 00:42:56,133
on the architecture sort of without fear or favour
1103
00:42:56,466 --> 00:42:58,566
uh on that you know Queenwood slips
1104
00:42:58,566 --> 00:43:00,366
slips back a little bit uh
1105
00:43:00,366 --> 00:43:02,666
one which is hard for me to discuss
1106
00:43:02,666 --> 00:43:05,233
and I might transfer a little bit of a comment to you
1107
00:43:05,233 --> 00:43:07,900
James cause I know it's something that you've uh
1108
00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:10,900
noted is a small fall for um
1109
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:11,600
James Braids
1110
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,900
wonderful king's course at Gleneagles and I
1111
00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:19,200
I've got my thoughts as to why that may be um
1112
00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:21,200
which I'll I'll follow with but um
1113
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,266
James as leader of the Scotland panel
1114
00:43:23,266 --> 00:43:25,433
I think I'll pass this back to you yeah
1115
00:43:25,433 --> 00:43:26,800
for me the king's is
1116
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,466
arguably one of the most unique golf course is
1117
00:43:30,466 --> 00:43:32,933
in the whole of the UK
1118
00:43:33,266 --> 00:43:36,100
you could take a picture of any golf hole on the Kings
1119
00:43:36,100 --> 00:43:38,000
and it looks like a king's golf hole
1120
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,400
but every golf hole's different
1121
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,566
it's so good it's amazing
1122
00:43:41,833 --> 00:43:43,166
but uh it's
1123
00:43:43,166 --> 00:43:45,000
the hotel's under management of a group
1124
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,333
that don't care about the golf
1125
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,166
and it's a shame but it's what it is
1126
00:43:51,166 --> 00:43:56,033
and as soon as you make a forest green
1127
00:43:56,033 --> 00:43:58,033
for photos and pictures
1128
00:43:58,033 --> 00:44:00,833
and for people arriving and wanting to see lush
1129
00:44:00,833 --> 00:44:02,966
green things cause of the Americanization of golf
1130
00:44:02,966 --> 00:44:04,900
thankfully it's changed more recently
1131
00:44:04,900 --> 00:44:07,766
there's a new era that the Masters is leading
1132
00:44:08,433 --> 00:44:10,700
but the soon as you have that
1133
00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:12,300
you take away a shot option
1134
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:14,533
which takes away strategic shot options
1135
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,066
and as soon as you do that
1136
00:44:16,066 --> 00:44:17,566
it take that is a
1137
00:44:17,766 --> 00:44:20,766
it's a minus point on our on our schedule
1138
00:44:20,766 --> 00:44:22,333
it's a minus point on our uh
1139
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,400
if we're marking a strategic golf uh
1140
00:44:25,566 --> 00:44:28,833
as our main goal you lose a point like it
1141
00:44:28,833 --> 00:44:31,600
it's just simple and as there's no points but it
1142
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,766
you know that's so important to the game of golf
1143
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:38,166
and I think it's just been over watering
1144
00:44:38,966 --> 00:44:44,066
it's just because it's not run by golf nerds like us
1145
00:44:44,066 --> 00:44:46,666
it's run by a hotel chain that wants it green
1146
00:44:46,666 --> 00:44:47,666
and pretty yes
1147
00:44:47,666 --> 00:44:49,300
and I think the other thing is
1148
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:51,500
is that you know a
1149
00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:53,033
a considering there is a membership there
1150
00:44:53,033 --> 00:44:54,233
which is very active but the
1151
00:44:54,233 --> 00:44:57,466
you know considerable amount of the play is coming in
1152
00:44:57,466 --> 00:45:00,633
going out it's not massive amount of repeat play
1153
00:45:00,633 --> 00:45:02,333
they may play it two or three times
1154
00:45:02,366 --> 00:45:04,500
in their short stay at the resort
1155
00:45:04,633 --> 00:45:05,833
or they may be you know
1156
00:45:05,833 --> 00:45:08,100
going off to other Scottish golf courses and using
1157
00:45:08,266 --> 00:45:09,766
using Gleneagles as a base
1158
00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:11,466
and so consequently
1159
00:45:12,066 --> 00:45:15,266
that doesn't get reflected or fed back to the hotel
1160
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,200
and the management enough
1161
00:45:17,633 --> 00:45:18,733
in my view
1162
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:20,233
I yeah
1163
00:45:20,233 --> 00:45:22,266
without doubt and it's a
1164
00:45:22,266 --> 00:45:23,466
it's a gem um
1165
00:45:23,466 --> 00:45:25,800
I've got a map of the courses to the right of me
1166
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,700
and the and the book of the golf at Gleneagles from um
1167
00:45:29,866 --> 00:45:31,600
back in the back in the 20s
1168
00:45:31,833 --> 00:45:33,033
um you know
1169
00:45:33,033 --> 00:45:33,966
it's a great love of mine
1170
00:45:33,966 --> 00:45:34,700
so it you know
1171
00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:36,600
I'm saddened to see that and um
1172
00:45:37,033 --> 00:45:37,500
hopefully
1173
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:39,800
they can impress the Scottish panel to get back up
1174
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,166
but that's a personal view
1175
00:45:41,233 --> 00:45:41,800
um ah
1176
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,600
ah
1177
00:45:42,666 --> 00:45:44,100
there um
1178
00:45:44,100 --> 00:45:45,833
but I thought it was worth noting
1179
00:45:45,833 --> 00:45:48,166
because although we don't
1180
00:45:49,366 --> 00:45:52,400
include agronomy and course conditioning
1181
00:45:52,833 --> 00:45:54,633
specifically within our guidance
1182
00:45:54,633 --> 00:45:56,500
which is on our website uh
1183
00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:58,600
which Jasper very um
1184
00:45:59,066 --> 00:46:01,466
sensibly when he came in decided to open to the public
1185
00:46:01,466 --> 00:46:02,800
because I think that's really important
1186
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,966
that we're open and transparent um
1187
00:46:05,266 --> 00:46:07,033
we don't include that specifically
1188
00:46:07,033 --> 00:46:08,166
so we don't rate you know
1189
00:46:08,166 --> 00:46:11,566
your green speed and all those types of things um
1190
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,766
but we do judge playing characteristics and how
1191
00:46:15,033 --> 00:46:17,833
how consistent they are to the design
1192
00:46:17,833 --> 00:46:19,366
exactly as you said James
1193
00:46:19,566 --> 00:46:21,200
I think that's really important
1194
00:46:21,300 --> 00:46:22,633
um the other thing is
1195
00:46:22,633 --> 00:46:23,366
is that you know
1196
00:46:23,366 --> 00:46:25,233
we've had some comments on some of the socials
1197
00:46:25,233 --> 00:46:27,100
about the England list um
1198
00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:28,400
about particular course
1199
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,266
that was struggling with its greens last year um
1200
00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:34,966
and speculating that was the reason that it fell um
1201
00:46:35,233 --> 00:46:37,133
that's not the case so
1202
00:46:37,566 --> 00:46:39,966
you know if one of our um
1203
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,866
panelist goes to see a course
1204
00:46:41,866 --> 00:46:43,900
and they have an outbreak of Fusarium
1205
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,066
it's extremely bad for us to penalise them
1206
00:46:47,066 --> 00:46:49,800
on the basis of something that is clearly temporary
1207
00:46:50,166 --> 00:46:53,000
but if you have a significant change in permanent
1208
00:46:53,366 --> 00:46:54,200
conditions
1209
00:46:54,966 --> 00:46:56,400
that does become an issue
1210
00:46:56,666 --> 00:46:58,266
and that can be positive or negative
1211
00:46:58,266 --> 00:46:59,233
so for example
1212
00:46:59,233 --> 00:47:02,200
Wallasey has done really well in a number of lists
1213
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,966
including our own over recent years
1214
00:47:03,966 --> 00:47:06,433
because of unbelievable work that
1215
00:47:06,433 --> 00:47:07,900
that team are doing
1216
00:47:08,433 --> 00:47:12,966
and it's one of the best golf courses in the UK
1217
00:47:13,466 --> 00:47:15,466
without a doubt um
1218
00:47:16,033 --> 00:47:17,266
the benefit of that
1219
00:47:17,266 --> 00:47:19,566
for our list is the playing conditions
1220
00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:22,100
not that agronomy um
1221
00:47:22,266 --> 00:47:24,366
that agronomy is the cherry on the cake
1222
00:47:24,366 --> 00:47:26,233
it's the icing on the on the bun
1223
00:47:26,233 --> 00:47:28,200
whatever you wanna call it um
1224
00:47:28,266 --> 00:47:29,400
and it's wonderful and we
1225
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,566
we should say we should celebrate that um
1226
00:47:31,666 --> 00:47:34,500
but within our rankings what drives it is how
1227
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:36,966
that affects how the course plays
1228
00:47:37,433 --> 00:47:39,066
rather than um
1229
00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:40,466
you know uh
1230
00:47:40,766 --> 00:47:42,533
that those playing conditions on a
1231
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,666
on a short term basis it's simple things
1232
00:47:45,833 --> 00:47:46,266
there's
1233
00:47:46,266 --> 00:47:49,266
there's just there's simple things like having tight
1234
00:47:49,266 --> 00:47:52,600
firm turf deep away from the green
1235
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,000
so all the way around the green
1236
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,866
so you can have short options
1237
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,966
and the
1238
00:47:57,966 --> 00:48:00,433
every single top golf course in the UK does that
1239
00:48:00,433 --> 00:48:00,766
but then
1240
00:48:00,766 --> 00:48:03,166
there's a load of golf courses that are brilliant
1241
00:48:03,266 --> 00:48:03,866
they just don't
1242
00:48:03,866 --> 00:48:07,100
and they just have rough almost coming or
1243
00:48:07,166 --> 00:48:10,200
or a semi that plays all the way around the green
1244
00:48:10,766 --> 00:48:13,200
it's those are the kind of things that we can judge
1245
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,366
because it's the way you've set up your course
1246
00:48:15,766 --> 00:48:18,000
that is negated strategic golf
1247
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,666
it's not whether your greens running at six or 10
1248
00:48:22,666 --> 00:48:24,100
you know we don't care about those things
1249
00:48:24,100 --> 00:48:25,566
it might be a bit lumpy yeah
1250
00:48:25,566 --> 00:48:27,433
you wouldn't you can't get an iron on it this week
1251
00:48:27,433 --> 00:48:29,466
because it's been wet whatever
1252
00:48:29,466 --> 00:48:30,500
we don't care about those things
1253
00:48:30,500 --> 00:48:32,166
I would just have to say to echo that
1254
00:48:32,166 --> 00:48:33,600
it's an interesting one I mean
1255
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,366
and it's not just here um
1256
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:36,033
you know the
1257
00:48:36,033 --> 00:48:38,666
the Fairmont chain of hotels uh
1258
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,466
owns two gems in Canada that
1259
00:48:41,466 --> 00:48:43,366
which are particularly dear to my heart
1260
00:48:43,366 --> 00:48:44,300
because I grew up playing them
1261
00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:46,400
Bath Springs and Jasper Park Lodge
1262
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,400
but uh similarly you know
1263
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:52,566
when we spoke to them last year or the year before even
1264
00:48:52,566 --> 00:48:53,600
um the
1265
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:54,700
when you say like do you
1266
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:55,966
do you really realize like
1267
00:48:55,966 --> 00:48:58,100
how great your golf courses are
1268
00:48:58,266 --> 00:49:01,366
and the individual that they might have at the helm
1269
00:49:01,366 --> 00:49:02,600
who's responsible for like
1270
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,266
golf operations of the portfolio is like oh
1271
00:49:05,266 --> 00:49:06,500
do you mean they're they're okay
1272
00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:08,266
like they're good golf courses or what
1273
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:09,500
and it's almost like
1274
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:12,900
just another line on a massive portfolios
1275
00:49:13,033 --> 00:49:15,433
you know register at the end of the year
1276
00:49:15,433 --> 00:49:17,233
and as long as that line remains black
1277
00:49:17,233 --> 00:49:19,500
and it doesn't turn red then it's like well
1278
00:49:20,366 --> 00:49:21,866
it doesn't need to be on a risk register
1279
00:49:21,866 --> 00:49:23,466
so look happy days
1280
00:49:23,466 --> 00:49:25,666
it's making money let's just continue on
1281
00:49:25,666 --> 00:49:28,366
and I think when they get approached and they say hey
1282
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,300
like this would be amazing
1283
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:33,500
if you pumped in a few million pounds into it um
1284
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:35,566
or dollars it's kind of like well
1285
00:49:35,566 --> 00:49:37,366
why would we do that from an asset point of view
1286
00:49:37,366 --> 00:49:38,700
like we're we're making money on it
1287
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:39,766
do we really need to do it
1288
00:49:39,766 --> 00:49:41,066
and and I guess that's the
1289
00:49:41,066 --> 00:49:43,000
just the difference between us as
1290
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,333
you know purists fans
1291
00:49:45,666 --> 00:49:46,566
um you know
1292
00:49:46,566 --> 00:49:48,066
you want to see these gems
1293
00:49:48,066 --> 00:49:51,000
which Gleneagles and the other courses I mentioned are
1294
00:49:51,566 --> 00:49:53,100
um yeah
1295
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:53,833
it your
1296
00:49:53,833 --> 00:49:56,966
your heart just kind of x to
1297
00:49:56,966 --> 00:49:59,100
to see them at their their prime again
1298
00:49:59,100 --> 00:50:01,266
I've been doing something really entertaining to me
1299
00:50:01,266 --> 00:50:03,133
and no one else gets it
1300
00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:05,266
but I've really enjoyed it recently
1301
00:50:05,633 --> 00:50:07,900
I've been telling people that they're like
1302
00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:10,266
if I meet a Canadian and I was
1303
00:50:10,266 --> 00:50:12,433
so I work with the Canadian Jasper
1304
00:50:12,433 --> 00:50:14,166
and they'd be like oh yeah
1305
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,433
blah blah whatever and I'm like
1306
00:50:16,433 --> 00:50:18,400
do you know Jasper's not actually his real name
1307
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,266
his name's Garrett and it's not actually like
1308
00:50:21,266 --> 00:50:23,433
he just uses that because he loves Jasper
1309
00:50:23,433 --> 00:50:25,800
Lodge so much that he changed his name haha
1310
00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:28,433
yeah I missed out the
1311
00:50:28,433 --> 00:50:30,400
I missed out the second and third barrel there
1312
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,933
but that might be coming eventually haha
1313
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:35,566
yeah there's a bit more of a story to that
1314
00:50:35,566 --> 00:50:36,833
it's not quite that but yeah
1315
00:50:36,833 --> 00:50:38,166
we can go with that it's fine
1316
00:50:38,833 --> 00:50:39,633
haha
1317
00:50:41,066 --> 00:50:42,900
I think James you might have a similar story though
1318
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:43,900
don't you I think
1319
00:50:44,633 --> 00:50:45,966
it's sad that I don't have a golf course
1320
00:50:45,966 --> 00:50:47,733
that can claim that I'm named after them
1321
00:50:49,633 --> 00:50:52,333
from from my perspective um
1322
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,300
these things are never set in stone
1323
00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:58,766
as we said in autumn we will have the global uh
1324
00:50:58,766 --> 00:51:01,466
reranking that will influence this list
1325
00:51:01,466 --> 00:51:04,433
because we like to live update those um
1326
00:51:04,433 --> 00:51:05,766
it will also influence
1327
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:06,800
you know
1328
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,466
below the list and in the country list as well
1329
00:51:09,466 --> 00:51:13,466
because we are pleased to have that global perspective
1330
00:51:13,666 --> 00:51:15,866
um and so um
1331
00:51:15,866 --> 00:51:17,633
some of that feedback um
1332
00:51:17,633 --> 00:51:20,400
can be integrated more on a more
1333
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,966
more more live basis going forward um
1334
00:51:23,266 --> 00:51:26,100
rather than just doing every two years a solid
1335
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:29,200
you know rerank stop and start process
1336
00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:33,266
and I think that's what Jasper's really detailed here
1337
00:51:33,266 --> 00:51:34,700
which is you know
1338
00:51:34,700 --> 00:51:38,100
this is about curating a list that moves over time
1339
00:51:38,166 --> 00:51:39,466
and rewards
1340
00:51:39,466 --> 00:51:41,900
people for doing the right things over time
1341
00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:44,100
and that compound move um
1342
00:51:44,166 --> 00:51:46,366
obviously helps them um
1343
00:51:46,366 --> 00:51:49,366
and also it's competitive to stay on the list
1344
00:51:49,366 --> 00:51:52,100
you've got to stay doing those good things um
1345
00:51:52,233 --> 00:51:55,266
and be very careful and you know
1346
00:51:55,266 --> 00:51:58,866
I'm obviously quite historical in my output outlook
1347
00:51:59,266 --> 00:52:02,633
and I think restoration globally uh
1348
00:52:02,633 --> 00:52:03,466
as a movement
1349
00:52:03,466 --> 00:52:06,933
is much more advanced than it is over here um
1350
00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:09,233
it is better within this top Echelon
1351
00:52:09,233 --> 00:52:12,400
than maybe the proliferation of clubs across the UK
1352
00:52:12,466 --> 00:52:14,666
and GBI um
1353
00:52:15,233 --> 00:52:16,900
but you know
1354
00:52:17,066 --> 00:52:19,800
it's really incumbent on courses to understand
1355
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,266
what's unique and
1356
00:52:21,266 --> 00:52:23,000
and have a high burden of proof
1357
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,466
if there's something architecturally of merit
1358
00:52:25,666 --> 00:52:27,100
whether it's got someone's name on it
1359
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:29,600
it doesn't matter if there's a piece of terrain
1360
00:52:29,766 --> 00:52:31,600
that has uniqueness and quirk
1361
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,933
and affects the playing experience in a positive way
1362
00:52:35,633 --> 00:52:37,433
and that can be a brutal hazard
1363
00:52:37,433 --> 00:52:39,266
or it can be something really quite subtle
1364
00:52:39,266 --> 00:52:42,200
like a small bump in front of a green
1365
00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:44,266
protect it curate it
1366
00:52:44,266 --> 00:52:48,866
look after it and people will reward you with
1367
00:52:48,866 --> 00:52:51,266
you know rankings in the terms of our our
1368
00:52:51,266 --> 00:52:53,633
our respect but your members will be happier
1369
00:52:53,633 --> 00:52:55,300
your visitors will be happier you
1370
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:55,966
you you know
1371
00:52:55,966 --> 00:52:57,966
you're gonna have a much more sustainable business
1372
00:52:57,966 --> 00:52:59,000
model um
1373
00:52:59,033 --> 00:53:00,866
over the long term um
1374
00:53:00,966 --> 00:53:03,466
by looking after the golf architecture
1375
00:53:03,466 --> 00:53:06,933
and playing conditions or playing conditions of your
1376
00:53:06,966 --> 00:53:09,100
of your course and um
1377
00:53:09,100 --> 00:53:10,033
yeah it's a
1378
00:53:10,033 --> 00:53:13,066
it's competitive get on the list as you said James
1379
00:53:13,100 --> 00:53:13,900
the next level
1380
00:53:13,900 --> 00:53:16,033
candidates are clear from the country lists
1381
00:53:16,033 --> 00:53:18,000
and people can look at that um
1382
00:53:18,166 --> 00:53:19,900
and people can see where they should be
1383
00:53:19,900 --> 00:53:21,033
and where they are
1384
00:53:21,033 --> 00:53:23,766
and maybe see where the opportunities are to
1385
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:24,933
you know uh
1386
00:53:25,033 --> 00:53:27,900
improve and take some inspiration from your neighbours
1387
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:32,566
I think the biggest inspiration on this list um
1388
00:53:32,833 --> 00:53:34,700
certainly in regard to inland golf
1389
00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:38,166
both heathland and Parkland is the Addington um
1390
00:53:38,266 --> 00:53:41,266
in terms of what Ryan's been doing there and his team
1391
00:53:41,266 --> 00:53:43,133
and CDP um
1392
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:44,433
you know it's a
1393
00:53:44,433 --> 00:53:47,000
it's a poster child for what can happen
1394
00:53:47,066 --> 00:53:50,433
to a sleeping giant of a course um
1395
00:53:50,433 --> 00:53:51,400
that um
1396
00:53:51,866 --> 00:53:53,900
has exposed its architecture
1397
00:53:54,033 --> 00:53:57,500
literally exposed its architecture by taking trees away
1398
00:53:57,566 --> 00:54:00,466
um and doing very careful work um
1399
00:54:00,766 --> 00:54:01,733
and um
1400
00:54:01,866 --> 00:54:04,066
there are other Abercrombie courses
1401
00:54:04,066 --> 00:54:06,133
there are other cult courses
1402
00:54:06,366 --> 00:54:07,766
it doesn't matter which which
1403
00:54:07,766 --> 00:54:10,666
which designer or architect is on them
1404
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,600
that can take inspiration from that um
1405
00:54:13,666 --> 00:54:15,000
and see that
1406
00:54:15,066 --> 00:54:17,333
they're doing the right thing for the future
1407
00:54:17,433 --> 00:54:18,900
by looking back at the past
1408
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:19,933
yeah absolutely
1409
00:54:20,033 --> 00:54:21,466
the one thing that um
1410
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:23,233
you do is obvious
1411
00:54:23,233 --> 00:54:25,200
in America's a lot more money in golf of
1412
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,600
everyone knows that but uh
1413
00:54:27,233 --> 00:54:30,966
and a lot of these small town clubs that do have very
1414
00:54:30,966 --> 00:54:34,266
very good golf course architecture that you wouldn't
1415
00:54:34,266 --> 00:54:37,800
maybe you wouldn't see on a top 100 list and
1416
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,866
and you can pay very little to play them
1417
00:54:41,266 --> 00:54:44,766
and don't have the money for gilham's renovation job
1418
00:54:44,766 --> 00:54:47,733
you know don't have the money for the big guys who
1419
00:54:48,233 --> 00:54:50,266
there's not that many doing it brilliantly
1420
00:54:50,266 --> 00:54:51,600
you know yeah
1421
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,033
I was listening I was listening listening
1422
00:54:54,033 --> 00:54:58,400
reading Golf Club Atlas earlier today and um
1423
00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:00,333
Tom Doak was writing um
1424
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,600
about the absence of preservation
1425
00:55:03,066 --> 00:55:05,066
and I think that's really important
1426
00:55:05,266 --> 00:55:07,566
and I think he's spot on which is
1427
00:55:07,566 --> 00:55:08,466
you can preserve
1428
00:55:08,466 --> 00:55:10,166
things without spending a lot of money
1429
00:55:10,466 --> 00:55:13,700
you just have to understand what to preserve and how
1430
00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:18,166
and a number of the courses on this list are there
1431
00:55:18,166 --> 00:55:20,600
because they have preserved what they have
1432
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,000
not that they've gone in and done some big project
1433
00:55:23,033 --> 00:55:25,466
they've incrementally improved things and preserve
1434
00:55:25,466 --> 00:55:26,266
preserve
1435
00:55:26,666 --> 00:55:30,566
sorry been preservationist in their approach
1436
00:55:31,166 --> 00:55:35,200
that's an awful um so uh yeah
1437
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:36,966
I think yeah it's
1438
00:55:36,966 --> 00:55:39,833
it's very definitely clear
1439
00:55:39,833 --> 00:55:41,700
how you get to be on the list
1440
00:55:41,700 --> 00:55:42,866
how you get to stay on the list
1441
00:55:42,866 --> 00:55:44,533
how you get to move up the list
1442
00:55:45,700 --> 00:55:46,800
and maybe that is
1443
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,600
maybe that is something just to call out as well
1444
00:55:50,500 --> 00:55:51,200
you know there
1445
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,033
there are some that drop and have dropped in England
1446
00:55:55,033 --> 00:55:59,633
and in GBI particularly and
1447
00:55:59,633 --> 00:56:00,666
you know the commonality
1448
00:56:00,666 --> 00:56:04,200
we spoke about it before we got on here was that
1449
00:56:05,433 --> 00:56:07,833
doing work on your golf course is brilliant
1450
00:56:07,833 --> 00:56:12,600
like you you golf courses are constantly evolving
1451
00:56:12,833 --> 00:56:14,900
and if your course is 100 and twenty
1452
00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:17,166
hundred and 30 years old uh
1453
00:56:17,166 --> 00:56:21,200
there's a lot that's changed in 130 years um
1454
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,000
whether that's environmentally
1455
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,133
weather patterns
1456
00:56:24,166 --> 00:56:27,533
you know on and on and on there's there's however
1457
00:56:27,833 --> 00:56:28,066
if
1458
00:56:28,066 --> 00:56:31,966
if you are the custodian of a golden age masterpiece
1459
00:56:31,966 --> 00:56:35,300
that has even a sniff of this list
1460
00:56:36,900 --> 00:56:40,966
don't hire a hack and what I mean by that is hire me
1461
00:56:41,766 --> 00:56:45,700
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha James James has open it
1462
00:56:47,366 --> 00:56:48,700
what I mean by that is is
1463
00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:51,466
is hire someone who cares enough to understand
1464
00:56:51,466 --> 00:56:53,800
why the golf course is as good as it is
1465
00:56:54,066 --> 00:56:56,833
not just the guy who's you know oh
1466
00:56:56,833 --> 00:56:59,566
he's down the road or he's the cheapest
1467
00:56:59,566 --> 00:57:00,366
or
1468
00:57:00,900 --> 00:57:03,700
find someone who's willing to become an expert at
1469
00:57:03,966 --> 00:57:05,300
your golf course
1470
00:57:05,833 --> 00:57:07,666
that's willing to tear it apart
1471
00:57:07,666 --> 00:57:10,300
look everywhere possible to learn about it
1472
00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:12,166
and is willing to put in that time
1473
00:57:12,166 --> 00:57:14,100
to become an expert on your golf course
1474
00:57:14,666 --> 00:57:16,633
uh cause you get a lot of architects that will go in
1475
00:57:16,633 --> 00:57:20,100
and they'll make changes and they wanna do work
1476
00:57:20,100 --> 00:57:21,466
and they wanna put in rubber compass
1477
00:57:21,466 --> 00:57:22,433
and course furniture
1478
00:57:22,433 --> 00:57:24,600
and all the things that don't matter
1479
00:57:25,100 --> 00:57:28,533
and they propose changes without actually knowing
1480
00:57:29,966 --> 00:57:31,400
what they're actually changing
1481
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,433
and if you have an original green site
1482
00:57:33,433 --> 00:57:35,133
that's been built by a master
1483
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,466
and you can't be bothered
1484
00:57:38,066 --> 00:57:38,833
to go and figure out
1485
00:57:38,833 --> 00:57:40,666
what you're actually consulting on
1486
00:57:40,666 --> 00:57:41,800
and you go and change it
1487
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,666
you will never get it back and unfortunately
1488
00:57:44,666 --> 00:57:47,366
that happens and happens a lot um
1489
00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:48,600
it's a scourge
1490
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,100
especially with a lot of the work that's being done now
1491
00:57:51,633 --> 00:57:53,266
um and it's a shame
1492
00:57:53,266 --> 00:57:56,066
because I think the real cost
1493
00:57:56,066 --> 00:57:58,300
that a lot of these clubs are gonna have to pay
1494
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,300
is that they've got a poor
1495
00:58:00,700 --> 00:58:04,100
replacement for a stunning original
1496
00:58:04,100 --> 00:58:06,733
a misunderstood original it's like um
1497
00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:10,400
it's like you hear of these stories of people uh
1498
00:58:11,433 --> 00:58:14,900
taking art down from the walls and selling it in a in
1499
00:58:14,900 --> 00:58:16,333
out of their garage you know
1500
00:58:16,466 --> 00:58:18,466
selling it in a flea market
1501
00:58:18,466 --> 00:58:21,166
and then someone picks it up and sells it on
1502
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:25,100
in an auction site for god knows and a lot of people
1503
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:26,033
a lot of golf courses
1504
00:58:26,033 --> 00:58:28,400
it feels like that's happening right now and
1505
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:29,600
and I think that's the point
1506
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,000
you know sometimes
1507
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,433
you know we always say this
1508
00:58:32,433 --> 00:58:35,266
value is what you get and price is what you pay
1509
00:58:35,266 --> 00:58:39,266
and sometimes you it can be inverse as well
1510
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:39,800
you know you
1511
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,866
you hire these architects to do work um
1512
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,800
and you pay a price but actually
1513
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,566
the damage that they've done to the golf course
1514
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,966
uh in the name of quote unquote progress
1515
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,366
uh history won't smile well on
1516
00:58:54,366 --> 00:58:55,600
on these guys
1517
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:59,166
and hopefully they're ignorant of that fact
1518
00:58:59,166 --> 00:59:00,400
because if they're not
1519
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,666
then they've got a lot to answer for um
1520
00:59:03,666 --> 00:59:06,333
and I know that's like a harsh thing to say
1521
00:59:06,566 --> 00:59:09,266
but at the same time it's good to have someone
1522
00:59:09,266 --> 00:59:11,433
who's willing to call them out um
1523
00:59:11,433 --> 00:59:14,000
and I think they know who they are
1524
00:59:14,033 --> 00:59:16,800
which is why I'm 100% ha ha ha ha at the minute
1525
00:59:17,266 --> 00:59:18,066
ha ha ha ha
1526
00:59:18,066 --> 00:59:20,033
you just need to look at the work that Donald Steel
1527
00:59:20,033 --> 00:59:23,433
did on the Eden or the work at Rola Verdini did
1528
00:59:23,433 --> 00:59:26,766
it's just an instant for me it
1529
00:59:26,766 --> 00:59:29,500
it you instantly know which parts he's done
1530
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,266
it's very evident
1531
00:59:33,566 --> 00:59:34,100
and and you don't
1532
00:59:34,100 --> 00:59:35,366
you don't have to comment on that
1533
00:59:35,366 --> 00:59:36,166
don't worry
1534
00:59:36,633 --> 00:59:37,433
no no
1535
00:59:37,466 --> 00:59:37,633
no no
1536
00:59:37,633 --> 00:59:38,900
no I I I I
1537
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:39,866
I'm I'm
1538
00:59:39,866 --> 00:59:41,200
in print as saying that the
1539
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,866
Eden is the best 14 hole golf course in Scotland
1540
00:59:44,266 --> 00:59:46,866
that's so good and it's it's
1541
00:59:46,866 --> 00:59:47,666
it's wonderful
1542
00:59:47,666 --> 00:59:51,200
and I think there are moves behind the scenes to
1543
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:52,800
possibly even
1544
00:59:53,433 --> 00:59:55,233
remodel some of the Strath iron holes
1545
00:59:55,233 --> 00:59:56,433
and bring them into the loop
1546
00:59:56,433 --> 00:59:58,733
and just change a couple of routings
1547
00:59:58,833 --> 01:00:01,466
I actually think that you know they
1548
01:00:01,466 --> 01:00:04,333
they could even play it as 14 um
1549
01:00:04,566 --> 01:00:04,866
you know
1550
01:00:04,866 --> 01:00:06,766
there aren't many 14 courses around and you've got
1551
01:00:06,766 --> 01:00:08,066
you know Balgowie's nine
1552
01:00:08,066 --> 01:00:09,300
you know Strathyrum
1553
01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:09,633
you know
1554
01:00:09,633 --> 01:00:12,600
they just keep growing through the golfing experience
1555
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,500
um but to keep it pure
1556
01:00:14,500 --> 01:00:17,400
it's a wonderful golf course
1557
01:00:17,666 --> 01:00:19,466
um is there also
1558
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:20,466
it would be shorter
1559
01:00:20,466 --> 01:00:22,100
in terms of the amount of time it takes
1560
01:00:22,100 --> 01:00:23,866
so you can get two rounds in
1561
01:00:24,300 --> 01:00:26,400
that's what I mean that'd be perfect
1562
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,300
different formats there's no
1563
01:00:28,300 --> 01:00:31,233
no reason to have 18 um the
1564
01:00:31,233 --> 01:00:32,233
the other thing I would
1565
01:00:32,233 --> 01:00:34,366
just following on what Jasper said
1566
01:00:34,833 --> 01:00:36,200
it's not just about the architects
1567
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:37,400
it's also about the clubs
1568
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:38,200
and the clubs
1569
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,166
need to understand that the burden of proof
1570
01:00:41,300 --> 01:00:42,933
of making change
1571
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,866
if they've got something special should be much
1572
01:00:45,866 --> 01:00:49,400
much higher than they currently do
1573
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:51,066
the good courses get that
1574
01:00:51,066 --> 01:00:53,800
the good courses understand inertia
1575
01:00:54,033 --> 01:00:57,333
and understand that change only needs to be made um
1576
01:00:57,466 --> 01:00:59,466
when there is some significant threat
1577
01:00:59,466 --> 01:01:03,100
whether it be safety whether it be other things um
1578
01:01:03,166 --> 01:01:07,000
a lot of affectation and personal um
1579
01:01:07,100 --> 01:01:10,966
preference is being dressed up as a reason for change
1580
01:01:11,066 --> 01:01:14,800
and inertia is is is is more valuable um
1581
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,300
as I say preservation is way
1582
01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:20,500
is an underused word in our industry um
1583
01:01:20,966 --> 01:01:23,166
but there we go um great
1584
01:01:23,166 --> 01:01:24,400
well just to summarize look
1585
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,400
you know again proud to be involved and um
1586
01:01:27,833 --> 01:01:29,366
you know we know we're gonna get comments
1587
01:01:29,366 --> 01:01:31,200
we're happy to get comments um
1588
01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:33,933
I'm happy to um uh
1589
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,366
not debate and politely debate things um
1590
01:01:38,366 --> 01:01:40,000
and um you know
1591
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:41,433
it's a you know
1592
01:01:41,433 --> 01:01:45,366
our role is to highlight what we think is of quality
1593
01:01:45,666 --> 01:01:48,400
and I think this list does that pretty well right okay
1594
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,966
well thank you very much for all your time gentlemen
1595
01:01:50,966 --> 01:01:54,066
I Simon I know both of you are busy men gotta go
1596
01:01:54,066 --> 01:01:54,466
thank you
1597
01:01:54,466 --> 01:01:56,866
and I'm actually going to play with Andy Cocker
1598
01:01:56,866 --> 01:01:59,233
is one of the panelists from Yorkshire
1599
01:01:59,233 --> 01:02:02,266
great this evening so that'll be fun
1600
01:02:02,266 --> 01:02:05,333
and just want to say if anyone
1601
01:02:05,633 --> 01:02:09,666
the DVD will be out by the time this is released
1602
01:02:09,666 --> 01:02:11,600
so please go online to the website
1603
01:02:11,633 --> 01:02:15,600
check it out and if you want to argue with us about why
1604
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:17,666
something's not in it or something is in it
1605
01:02:17,666 --> 01:02:19,466
and you want to congratulate us
1606
01:02:19,466 --> 01:02:22,200
which normally is the one we prefer
1607
01:02:22,266 --> 01:02:25,166
the the best way to do it is through Instagram
1608
01:02:25,233 --> 01:02:27,366
or on Twitter or uh
1609
01:02:27,366 --> 01:02:29,166
all the social media platforms
1610
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:30,766
and we are very vocal
1611
01:02:30,766 --> 01:02:34,700
I know Jasper loves to have a gin and tonic
1612
01:02:34,700 --> 01:02:37,800
or just a straight gin on ice and uh
1613
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,533
get into the weeds of the comment section
1614
01:02:41,233 --> 01:02:42,633
and I have to admit Jasper
1615
01:02:42,633 --> 01:02:44,866
you're very good at it it's very entertaining to read
1616
01:02:45,266 --> 01:02:46,433
so yeah
1617
01:02:46,433 --> 01:02:47,400
we yeah
1618
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:49,966
try to provide a little bit of a yeah
1619
01:02:49,966 --> 01:02:51,666
a nudging a wink in places
1620
01:02:53,633 --> 01:02:53,900
hey well
1621
01:02:53,900 --> 01:02:55,566
it's just everything we're saying here right
1622
01:02:55,566 --> 01:02:57,733
we you just back up
1623
01:02:57,866 --> 01:02:59,766
so thanks very much to both of you
1624
01:02:59,766 --> 01:03:01,266
and enjoy the rest of your day
1625
01:03:01,266 --> 01:03:02,866
thanks very much to everyone who's listening
1626
01:03:02,900 --> 01:03:05,933
and I just remember to play Fast Lunch slow
1627
01:03:06,466 --> 01:03:08,433
this episode is brought to you by the Lockhart
1628
01:03:08,433 --> 01:03:11,933
Travel Club we believe golf is more than a game
1629
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,966
it's a journey a journey
1630
01:03:13,966 --> 01:03:17,100
we've made across 34 of the world's top 100 courses
1631
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last year and now it's your turn
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we create
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bespoke travel experiences for passionate golfers
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who expect nothing but the best
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membership is limited
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so join us at Locker Travel club.com
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top 100
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Golf courses.com has set the standard for golfers
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worldwide and now you can wear that standard proudly
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premium apparel and exclusive gear
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for those who truly know the game
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shop now at Top 100 Golf courses.com