Healing Men and Leaving Violence Behind with Jed Diamond

Riane Eisler describes gendered stereotyping of roles and behavior as the second cornerstone that shapes societies, along with childhood and family, economics, and narratives and stories. In this episode of the Power of Partnership podcast, Jed Diamond, renowned author of Male Menopause, The Irritable Male Syndrome and many others, sheds light on how our culture’s deeply ingrained domination narratives related to gender negatively impact men’s health and contribute to both internal and external violence.  This episode is a journey of revelation that promises to change the way we perceive societal norms and men's health.

https://centerforpartnership.org/
MenAlive.com
Center@Partnershipway.org
Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future, Riane Eisler
Nurturing Our Humanity, How Domination and Partnership Shape Our Brains, Lives, and Future, Riane Eisler
Inside Out: Becoming My Own Man, Jed Diamond
The Irritable Male Syndrome: Managing the 4 Causes of Depression and Aggression, Jed Diamond

Chapters

• 0:05 Healing the Wounds of Domination
• 11:38 Moonshot for Men's Health
• 19:18 Resources for Changing the Dominator Paradigm

Transcript

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Welcome
to the Power of Partnership Podcast.

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I'm Riane Eisler,
President of the Center for Partnership Systems.

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This podcast brings
you voices from the partnership

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movement,
people using partnership practices

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to build a world that values caring

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nature and shared prosperity.

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The Power of Partnership podcast is hosted

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by Cherri Jacobs Pruitt,

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a health policy and partnerships scholar.

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Today, Cherri interviews Jed Diamond,

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internationally acclaimed author

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and founder of The Men Alive

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and Moonshot for Mankind Programs.

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And now on to the POP podcast,
showing how we can heal

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the wounds of domination and leave

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violence behind.

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Welcome, Jed,

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and thank you so much for joining us
for the Power of Partnership podcast.

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I'm so pleased to be with you truly.

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It is a great honor and I'm glad to share
our continuing connection

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with all the work that Riane
has been doing over the years.

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Wonderful.

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How did you first learn about Riane
work and how did you first meet her?

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Well, probably like

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many people, I read The Chalice
and The Blade many years ago,

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and I had written
my first book in 1983 on Men.

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It's called Inside Out
Becoming My Own Man.

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And it happened that Riane

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was in San Francisco when I was there,

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and we met in San Francisco
after her book was published.

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And I shared with her
that I was really pleased

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with the way the book
her book was presented

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as it referenced males,

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because at the time so many,

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you know, real active women in the field

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were seeing men as the enemy or patriarchy

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as the problem
that needed to be eliminated.

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Her language, as you well know,

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saying that the problem isn't patriarchy.

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The problem is not any of the systems
that we intend to view.

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But was the dominator

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culture, the

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dominator type system
that we really were dealing with

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that was impacting
both men and women in negative ways

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And what we needed was a true partnerships
system that she,

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you know, in my experience first
described in The Chalice And The Blade

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in a way that nobody else had,
and I really don't think anybody else

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since has captured
both the breadth and depth of her work.

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And she and I been connected ever since.

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So I've heard you speak about
internal versus external violence.

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Can you share a little bit more
about what you mean by that?

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Well, I think

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we can see it most starkly

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in this rash of mass shootings

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that I think touches everybody

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in a very both personal way
and societal way.

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And what you often see is the shooters,
number one, are male.

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So this is generally

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a male issue in terms of the

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the way in which the violence happens.

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And you often see the shooters are both

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hurting other people, obviously,
and killing other people.

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But often it's
part of a shooting and suicide.

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Not always, but quite often the shooter

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dies as a result of the encounter
and often

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we see this, you know, in the
in the realm of police work.

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They often call it suicide by cop.

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Other words, a person is shooting, others
expecting to be killed.

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And so there's there's this two edges

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of the way
in which the violence expresses itself.

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And this is the most extreme, the,
you know, the shootings and the murders.

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Violence, of course, occurs
at other levels of domestic violence and,

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men hitting women, although it can be
women hitting men as well.

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But the damage when men at women
is greater and it ties in.

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And this is where people often don't
recognize

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that the internal violence,

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which at its extreme is suicide.

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So when we see, for instance,

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that men are primarily
the ones who act out violence

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and are doing violence towards others,
we also see that men

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also have the highest suicide rate,
that on average

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men die by suicide at four times

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the rate that the females die.

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And what's even more stark, so four times

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the difference between
males and females on average,

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but males over 65

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we think of violence is kind
of a young man's problem.

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But the suicide rate goes up

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with men and 65 and over to six times

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the rate of suicide that you see in women

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and 75 and older, which is my demographic,
which turns out to be

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the largest demographic increase
in in the country,

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because there are more of us
living longer.

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The suicide rate for males

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75 and over is ten times
ten times higher than it is

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for women of the same age,
which is to me a horrible tragedy.

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All of this is a horrible tragedy.

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And so related to these rates of suicide,
you know

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what is kind of the narrative,

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the mainstream narrative
we hear about why that increase

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and then what would be more
the cultural transformation

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narrative based on Riane’s
and in that relates to the domination

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perspective.

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Well, take the stories that get inculcated

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in our psyches, that
go back to when we were children,

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the nursery rhymes
that the society feeds us.

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And one of the early ones
when I was growing up and

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I don't know that
it is still something

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we say to children, but
it's definitely part of the culture that

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little girls are made of sugar
and spice and everything.

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Nice little boys, on

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the other hand, are made of snips
and snails and puppy dogs, tails.

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And if you think about
I mean, what that's saying

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is saying to females that you're good,
you're nice, you're sweet,

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and males, there's
something violent about who we are inside.

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You know,
Where did what happened to those dog’s

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tails?

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They were cut off.

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And that's who we are we’re made of

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cut off pieces of life,

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which, if you think

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about it, is, I think, a very early

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and we see this in many other forms
of the narratives that boys grow up with.

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Like big boys don't cry.

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So we're cut off from our emotions.

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We're taught in sports that winning
isn't everything.

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It's the only thing.

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Those are some of the things.

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So in many, many ways, these kind of

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disconnecting narratives
that we're disconnected from ourselves

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and also the lone wolf narratives

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that males are to be dominate

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in business, to be the ones that

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try to strive

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for the top, to be the top dog.

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All of these then get translated,

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I think, into the kind of

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childhood that many males experience.

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We know that as a group, males experience
higher levels of physical abuse

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as children and physical abuse
When you're children, we know now

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with many,
many studies, you know, contributes

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to later abuse of others.

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Not that everybody who is abused
as a child abuses others, but everybody.

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And I've seen this over the years

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and I can pretty much say it
as a blanket statement.

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Everybody who was abused

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as a child and goes on to be violent.

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So when I see violent men
at all different levels, whether it's

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violence towards themselves or depressed,
suicidal or violence towards others

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who have been in domestic violence groups
because they've been violent

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towards their partners
or have been violent

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externally and have had beaten up
other people, have gone to jail

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because of violent,
violent crimes themselves.

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When you really look
at their early childhood

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or how they grew up,
grew up in violent circumstances,

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they were either abused themselves
or they were in a home

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where their mother was abused
or a sister or brother was abused.

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So the narrative of the

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disconnected wounded man
and the narrative

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that says men are tough, you can take it.

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Men shouldn't cry
when you're hurt, when you're abused.

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And those are the narratives that then
turn into self-destructive behavior

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and external violence that we're seeing
increasingly in our society.

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More men are lonely.

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We talked about the epidemic
of loneliness, which is true,

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I think generally in society
as we are more disconnected men and women.

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But men are

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the lonelier

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sex, and it comes out in higher rates
of disconnection,

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unhappiness, depression, aggression.

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I wrote about that in the book,
The Irritable Male Syndrome,

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Understanding and Managing the four key
causes of depression and aggression.

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So these come out in many different ways.

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And I think as we're seeing,

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the society really is in a

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I think, a critical juncture where the

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the domination and partnership
systems are

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in obviously conflict and the

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the domination system
in many areas of our lives, I think is

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tipping the balance in ways
that both increase

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violence in the world,
increase separation in the world.

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And the good news is that there are

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a whole lot of partnership practices

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that are arising as well.

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And I think part of why, you know,
have been connected

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with Riane all these years
and her work is so important is because

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I think if we're not able

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to continue to tip the balance towards
partnership,

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it's clear that the society as a whole

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will become more violent.

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We're seeing that both on an environmental
level where we have more violent

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storms and more violent fires

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in California as it's getting into summer,
we worry about that.

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And that's not just happenstance.

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That's
because we are out of balance with nature.

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We are not, you know, in in sync

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and we are obviously heating the earth
in so many ways.

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So this is a time, I think,

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where there are two callings

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and one is the calling of domination,
which feeds on itself.

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It's like an infection.

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It's like an addiction
that once you're infected,

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it tends to spread, you know, violent
people tend to be violent towards others.

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Abused men, you know, more often

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will grow up to be abusive of others.

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So there's that spread.

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But there's also the other side
that partnership practices

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spread partnership, love, connection,
all the ways in which,

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you know, Riane has by her work
and by her

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life has let people know

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both in her early life,
as you well know, coming out of the

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country she lived in
and the violence she experienced

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in the world, I think is calling on us all

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to recognize that we are in trouble

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and that there are solutions
to the problem

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that have been well-articulated
and are spreading

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and are starting
to get into the mainstream

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in ways that I think
have not been the case before.

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And that's very heartening
and hopeful for me.

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Mhm. Yes.

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So can you

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talk more about specifically
your work and how you're helping men to

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I love the term that you use
in some of your writings

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about healing,
how are you helping men to heal

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the domination wounds
or the wounds of domination?

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Well, I can just take you back
a little bit

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to how I got started in this field,
because it really began for me.

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There's kind of a start date for me.

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November 21st, 1969,

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when I held my newborn son in my arms
for the first time.

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And I made a promise to him
that I would be a different kind of father

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than my father was able to be for me
and to do everything I could

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to create a world
where men were fully engaged

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in their families and were fully healthy
and healed throughout their lives.

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So my son is 53 this year.

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I've a daughter,

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and as I said, other children
and grandchildren and great grandchildren.

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But my father, who I was, wanted to be
a different kind of father, than

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became increasingly stressed,
depressed, angry, irritable to the point

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of taking an overdose of sleeping pills
when I was five years old

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and getting committed to the state mental
hospital.

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And I grew up wondering
what happened to my father,

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whether it would happen to me
or when it would happen to me

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and what I could do to prevent that.

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And so that kind of was the

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impetus to starting my work

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and when my son was born, you see how

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it restimulated my desire
and my website that I started

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called Men Alive,
MenAlive.com is my website.

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And so the work that I do
in all those areas, the outreach

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counseling that I do all over the world,
the teaching and training, and

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I started
what we call our Moonshot for Mankind,

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which was a research project

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that some colleagues
had conducted 20 years ago.

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So I've been doing this work for,
you know, 50 some odd years,

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but 20 years ago and two colleagues

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who did studies on

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longevity in different cultures

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throughout the world,
comparing males and females.

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And what they found
was that in every country they studied, in

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every culture, various cultures,
men died at younger ages and suffered

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diseases at rates much higher than females

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in every country in the world.

00;17;15;30 - 00;17;18;30
And that's still true 20 years later.

00;17;18;46 - 00;17;22;48
So their conclusion for me
was a call to action.

00;17;22;48 - 00;17;28;04
And they said that if we could help men
just live as well as women,

00;17;28;27 - 00;17;34;20
no big changes in the systems
other than if we could shift,

00;17;34;20 - 00;17;38;08
because to do that you have to shift away
from domination to partnership,

00;17;38;24 - 00;17;43;23
which women as a group had,
I think, done better than men as a group.

00;17;43;32 - 00;17;47;02
But together we can do a lot more.
They said

00;17;47;02 - 00;17;52;40
we would save 375,000 men's lives

00;17;53;02 - 00;17;56;02
every year in the United States alone.

00;17;56;54 - 00;18;01;47
And if you could do that, you would do
more good in the world than curing cancer.

00;18;02;30 - 00;18;05;58
And so 20 years ago,
I reoriented Men Alive

00;18;06;21 - 00;18;09;02
to do the things that we knew

00;18;09;02 - 00;18;12;22
were most significant,
like violence prevention,

00;18;12;40 - 00;18;16;10
like dealing with depression
and aggression and preventing

00;18;16;10 - 00;18;21;51
the kind of violence that was happening,
getting men involved in men's groups.

00;18;21;52 - 00;18;27;57
I've been in a men's group now that's been
meeting for 44 years. My wife

00;18;27;57 - 00;18;31;45
Carlyn will tell you that
one of the reasons we've had and continue

00;18;31;46 - 00;18;35;39
to have a very successful
marriage of 43 years

00;18;35;54 - 00;18;38;44
is because I've been in
a men's group for 44 years.

00;18;40;14 - 00;18;43;21
So a year and a half ago I

00;18;43;21 - 00;18;48;16
decided we if we're going to do that,
we needed to bring together

00;18;49;19 - 00;18;54;12
not one organization
but thousands of organizations,

00;18;54;13 - 00;18;58;01
because when I started out,
there were very few people doing this

00;18;58;01 - 00;19;01;33
kind of gender specific
healing work focused on men.

00;19;02;11 - 00;19;05;20
Most of what was being done in
the area of gender was done

00;19;05;27 - 00;19;09;23
in the work of women in women's
health and women's world.

00;19;10;24 - 00;19;14;32
And I invited seven of my colleagues
that I knew

00;19;14;32 - 00;19;18;56
were doing really significant work
in the area of gender and men's health.

00;19;19;23 - 00;19;23;37
And we were joined together

00;19;23;37 - 00;19;28;32
with an idea that I called our Moonshot
for Mankind and Humanity.

00;19;29;09 - 00;19;33;39
And the idea of the moonshot is
if we could really draw together

00;19;33;39 - 00;19;37;53
and pull together the resources
that we know are out there that work,

00;19;38;38 - 00;19;42;17
we could do something
that would be more significant

00;19;42;17 - 00;19;45;17
even than going to the moon
and more outrageous.

00;19;45;26 - 00;19;47;19
And so we are,

00;19;48;38 - 00;19;49;18
for the first

00;19;49;18 - 00;19;52;18
time now, after meeting for a year
and a half,

00;19;52;18 - 00;19;55;39
we'll be launching
what we call our Moonshot for Mankind.

00;19;56;28 - 00;20;00;23
We'll have a series of online events
that will happen in July,

00;20;01;15 - 00;20;03;27
and we will then be inviting

00;20;03;27 - 00;20;07;51
what we believe are
probably a thousand organizations

00;20;08;16 - 00;20;12;03
throughout the world that we know of
right now that are doing

00;20;12;03 - 00;20;15;31
significantly good work
in the area of gender and health.

00;20;16;41 - 00;20;20;12
What you're doing
and what Riane’s doing would be certainly

00;20;20;12 - 00;20;24;38
one of those organizations we would invite
and hope would want to join us.

00;20;25;07 - 00;20;27;43
And we suspect there's probably millions

00;20;27;43 - 00;20;30;45
right now of men and women who recognize

00;20;31;21 - 00;20;35;47
that if we could help men
be healthier in body,

00;20;35;47 - 00;20;38;57
mind and spirit, men healthier

00;20;39;41 - 00;20;43;27
in emotional, mental
and relational health,

00;20;43;49 - 00;20;49;00
because part of the genius
I think of Riane and what she talks

00;20;49;00 - 00;20;52;00
about in the partnership
model is relationship.

00;20;52;10 - 00;20;55;25
How can we create
and bridge the relationship

00;20;55;35 - 00;20;58;14
divides that we have in all areas.

00;20;58;14 - 00;21;02;33
And so that's are our hope

00;21;02;33 - 00;21;05;33
that if we can join together

00;21;05;42 - 00;21;09;10
with many, many,
many organizations and individuals

00;21;09;30 - 00;21;12;53
and really recognize that
although partnership

00;21;13;28 - 00;21;17;18
needs to happen and many different levels
and many different,

00;21;17;50 - 00;21;20;50
the window of

00;21;21;33 - 00;21;25;54
helping mankind and humanity
and we use mankind

00;21;26;12 - 00;21;30;34
specifically because there is something
realistically different

00;21;30;34 - 00;21;34;34
about the way
males and females operate in the world

00;21;35;08 - 00;21;38;58
and that males right now
are living sicker,

00;21;38;58 - 00;21;43;20
having more problems at all levels,
dropping out of school at higher levels,

00;21;43;42 - 00;21;47;27
at higher rates,
going into prisons at higher rates,

00;21;47;41 - 00;21;52;09
being more violent at higher rates,
suicide at higher rates dying sooner.

00;21;52;18 - 00;21;53;57
The whole COVID thing.

00;21;53;57 - 00;21;58;30
We know that males died at higher rates
than females who got COVID.

00;21;58;54 - 00;22;01;59
So many different levels, if we can,

00;22;02;46 - 00;22;06;47
I think, operate within this window
of improving men's health,

00;22;07;09 - 00;22;10;28
this is going to be good for men,
obviously, for our

00;22;10;43 - 00;22;15;18
our sons, our fathers,
our grandfathers our brothers,

00;22;15;18 - 00;22;19;17
our friends, our lovers,
all the men in our lives.

00;22;19;42 - 00;22;23;50
But it's also going to be great for women,
because when I talk to women,

00;22;23;50 - 00;22;28;16
they say one of the biggest problems in
my life is a man who is hurting

00;22;28;16 - 00;22;32;05
is not here, or women
who have lost their husbands

00;22;32;28 - 00;22;36;27
through divorce or through death
who could have been here longer

00;22;36;43 - 00;22;39;54
if they were healthier
or could have been more present

00;22;39;54 - 00;22;42;47
in the lives of their families
if they were healthier.

00;22;42;47 - 00;22;44;40
So that's our vision.

00;22;44;40 - 00;22;49;11
That's our invitation to
to others to come join us

00;22;49;11 - 00;22;53;39
if this resonates with you,
because we need us all men and women,

00;22;53;39 - 00;22;56;55
all the
you know that healthy organizations

00;22;56;55 - 00;23;00;44
that are tilting towards partnership
and learning new ways

00;23;00;44 - 00;23;05;55
in which we can help ourselves
and each other, this is our future.

00;23;06;37 - 00;23;13;25
So the gender devaluation of anything
that's considered feminine.

00;23;13;25 - 00;23;17;53
So caring and caregiving
is really reserved for women. And

00;23;18;54 - 00;23;19;39
sometimes I

00;23;19;39 - 00;23;22;58
wonder and so I'm curious
if this has come up in your work,

00;23;23;18 - 00;23;28;36
if you run into barriers with women
not supporting their men

00;23;28;56 - 00;23;34;38
in showing caring behavior,
if they're also buying into that narrative

00;23;34;38 - 00;23;39;11
that my man's not a real man,
if he's wanting to be

00;23;39;11 - 00;23;45;02
the primary caregiver
or if he's wanting to join a men's group

00;23;45;02 - 00;23;49;48
and connect in a deeper emotional level
with other people.

00;23;49;48 - 00;23;52;48
So can you speak a bit about what
you've seen

00;23;52;57 - 00;23;56;05
specific to that cornerstone of gender?

00;23;56;20 - 00;23;59;59
Here's the thing that I think
is so important in the

00;24;00;28 - 00;24;03;16
in the gender discussion is that

00;24;03;16 - 00;24;06;33
this dividing paradigm

00;24;07;15 - 00;24;10;45
says that men are supposed to be
a certain way,

00;24;11;07 - 00;24;16;07
is the same thing that we were taught
that females were not supposed to be.

00;24;16;21 - 00;24;18;20
So they were a mirror opposite.

00;24;18;20 - 00;24;23;06
Men were supposed to be strong
and women were not supposed to be strong,

00;24;23;49 - 00;24;28;30
men were supposed to be tough
and females were supposed to be gentle.

00;24;28;48 - 00;24;31;04
And the opposite was true for women.

00;24;31;04 - 00;24;33;10
What women were told they must be

00;24;34;24 - 00;24;37;22
gentle, soft,

00;24;37;22 - 00;24;41;39
quiet, were the very things
they were told men, you cannot be.

00;24;42;31 - 00;24;46;38
And so part of the coming together,

00;24;46;52 - 00;24;49;52
the partnership is to take back

00;24;49;52 - 00;24;54;09
our humanity, take back the it's okay
as a man

00;24;54;36 - 00;24;58;14
which I part of what I've been teaching
myself, my sons

00;24;58;44 - 00;25;01;23
and all my grandsons.

00;25;01;23 - 00;25;05;02
It's okay to cry that men do that
men are gentle.

00;25;05;16 - 00;25;06;36
Men are kind.

00;25;06;36 - 00;25;09;28
Yes. Men are also strong
and men are vital.

00;25;09;28 - 00;25;12;14
And so our girls and so are women.

00;25;12;14 - 00;25;13;36
And your sister is strong.

00;25;13;36 - 00;25;16;36
And she can do all of these things.

00;25;16;38 - 00;25;20;07
And honoring the fact
that there is a difference

00;25;20;07 - 00;25;23;06
and honoring the differences joyfully.

00;25;23;23 - 00;25;26;28
And the domination model system

00;25;26;49 - 00;25;31;51
basically tells us that we are
not who we are

00;25;32;08 - 00;25;35;43
and the partnership
model brings us together.

00;25;35;58 - 00;25;40;58
And we, one at a time
two at a time, ten at a time,

00;25;40;58 - 00;25;44;52
millions at a time are starting to say,
this is who we are

00;25;45;21 - 00;25;49;22
and this is who you are
and you are fully human.

00;25;49;22 - 00;25;53;14
And I am fully human and you,
as I'm looking at you as we're talking

00;25;53;14 - 00;25;57;11
today, are female and I'm male
and isn't that wonderful?

00;25;57;20 - 00;26;00;29
And together
we can change the world for good.

00;26;01;03 - 00;26;04;59
Jed, I'd like to move us into next steps
for our listeners

00;26;04;59 - 00;26;07;59
in terms of
what resources may be available.

00;26;08;19 - 00;26;10;57
So I want to include

00;26;10;57 - 00;26;14;07
in those resources
the books that you have written.

00;26;14;29 - 00;26;16;58
Absolutely. So let me

00;26;17;56 - 00;26;20;52
kind of speak to all of those things.

00;26;20;52 - 00;26;24;03
Probably the easiest and

00;26;25;16 - 00;26;28;16
most direct way
people can learn about all of this,

00;26;28;16 - 00;26;31;16
both my books, my work,

00;26;31;48 - 00;26;36;20
the things that I have been doing
in the world and will be doing

00;26;36;41 - 00;26;41;36
next is through my website MenAlive.com.

00;26;42;07 - 00;26;45;46
So it's all one word
MENALIVE.com.

00;26;46;26 - 00;26;50;14
So that's my window to the world
you can learn a lot about that there

00;26;51;42 - 00;26;55;36
there is a
a box that you'll see if you scroll down

00;26;56;19 - 00;26;59;19
that will tell you about the Moonshot
for Mankind.

00;27;00;40 - 00;27;04;49
There is a book that I wrote
that talks about the moonshot

00;27;04;49 - 00;27;07;56
that will be out later
this year called Long Live Men.

00;27;08;57 - 00;27;11;04
And it speaks to those issues.

00;27;11;04 - 00;27;16;35
And as I mentioned, the
the actual invitation to the world.

00;27;16;37 - 00;27;21;18
And that will also invite you
to a new website

00;27;22;02 - 00;27;27;59
and will offer the direct connection to

00;27;28;17 - 00;27;31;52
this hopefully world wide

00;27;33;01 - 00;27;36;00
movement and call to action

00;27;36;06 - 00;27;38;51
for everybody who feels that

00;27;38;51 - 00;27;42;16
if we could change the

00;27;42;50 - 00;27;47;22
in the terms
we're talking about the dominator paradigm

00;27;47;31 - 00;27;52;06
that impacts the lives of men
and our relationships,

00;27;52;26 - 00;27;58;58
if we could change that to a more active,
engaged partnership way of life,

00;27;59;19 - 00;28;02;29
and if we could engage millions of men

00;28;02;29 - 00;28;05;37
who right now are caught up in

00;28;06;10 - 00;28;09;10
some part of the dominator

00;28;09;53 - 00;28;10;31
system.

00;28;10;31 - 00;28;14;01
And I think men, if we can change the men

00;28;14;52 - 00;28;19;01
part of the system
and the system part that impacts men,

00;28;19;26 - 00;28;22;51
this will make the ways

00;28;22;51 - 00;28;26;36
in which women are going to be impacted

00;28;26;51 - 00;28;32;00
a lot more easier,
a lot more joyful to have men and women

00;28;32;00 - 00;28;37;36
coming together as true partners, I think
is a vision that many, many people have.

00;28;37;49 - 00;28;41;28
And I know that's something
that infuses my work

00;28;41;28 - 00;28;44;28
as well as I know does Riane’s as well.

00;28;44;50 - 00;28;48;04
Yeah, that's very hopeful and
and hopefully it'll lead us.

00;28;48;06 - 00;28;52;06
As the title of this episode
says, we'll be able to leave

00;28;52;26 - 00;28;55;33
violence behind
both that internal and external.

00;28;56;20 - 00;28;58;55
So Jed before we close today, I wonder

00;28;58;55 - 00;29;02;52
if you have any final words of wisdom
you'd like to share with our listeners?

00;29;04;37 - 00;29;06;34
Well, I think the

00;29;06;34 - 00;29;09;01
thing I would want to share is both

00;29;09;01 - 00;29;12;08
the feeling of optimism

00;29;12;55 - 00;29;15;26
that I look forward to,

00;29;15;26 - 00;29;18;04
but also I think accepting a reality

00;29;18;04 - 00;29;23;48
that there are some systemic forces
that of domination

00;29;23;48 - 00;29;27;27
that have been put into a form

00;29;27;58 - 00;29;32;04
probably thousands of years ago
that are still with us.

00;29;32;56 - 00;29;37;08
Riane talks about this in her new book,
you know, Nurturing Humanity,

00;29;37;08 - 00;29;40;49
where we go back to the, you know, pre

00;29;42;28 - 00;29;46;41
early cultures of hunter gatherers,
as we call them, or

00;29;46;43 - 00;29;51;17
as she talks
about the original partnership societies

00;29;51;38 - 00;29;55;16
and some of the things that have happened
in the last 6000 years,

00;29;55;34 - 00;30;01;26
I think are creating a ripple effect
that are still with us.

00;30;01;29 - 00;30;06;28
And so I think accepting
that we're going to be in store

00;30;06;28 - 00;30;12;49
for some really difficult times
and that not only calls on us to help

00;30;13;09 - 00;30;17;30
bring a new partnership world into being,
but also the reality

00;30;17;30 - 00;30;21;33
that while we're doing that,
we have to really take

00;30;21;33 - 00;30;25;30
good care of ourselves
because we all are impacted

00;30;25;52 - 00;30;29;04
by the effects of domination

00;30;29;04 - 00;30;32;04
that are causing environmental problems.

00;30;32;20 - 00;30;36;32
They're causing problems in our
relationships, they're causing separation,

00;30;36;55 - 00;30;42;33
and we can't effectively heal
if we either are

00;30;43;02 - 00;30;47;23
optimistically Pollyannish
saying everything's going to be fine.

00;30;47;23 - 00;30;50;42
You know,
if we could only do this one thing

00;30;50;42 - 00;30;54;27
or get this person elected
or have this thing happen,

00;30;54;38 - 00;30;57;49
then it's all going to turn around
and everything's going to be lovely.

00;30;58;21 - 00;31;01;39
I think that’s

00;31;02;15 - 00;31;05;17
unrealistic and it's a in a sense,

00;31;06;34 - 00;31;09;34
part of the domination

00;31;09;46 - 00;31;12;46
perspective is that humans

00;31;13;04 - 00;31;16;22
are somehow separate from the world.

00;31;16;22 - 00;31;19;22
And if humans did their thing,

00;31;19;42 - 00;31;24;11
then we could make everything fine.

00;31;24;11 - 00;31;30;00
And human effective practice in the world
will be good for everybody.

00;31;30;00 - 00;31;32;56
Well, the world is more than humans

00;31;32;56 - 00;31;37;15
and some of the things
that humans have done are irredeemable,

00;31;37;15 - 00;31;41;02
and we're going to be showing the effects
of those. Partnership

00;31;41;02 - 00;31;46;04
I think we'll win out in the end, but
we need to be really good to ourselves,

00;31;46;04 - 00;31;50;16
take care of ourselves, and accept
the fact that we're in for a bumpy ride.

00;31;50;41 - 00;31;53;19
But together, while we're here,

00;31;53;19 - 00;31;56;19
we can make a difference for good.

00;31;57;02 - 00;31;57;40
Wonderful.

00;31;57;40 - 00;32;00;42
Thank you so much for joining us
today, Jed.

00;32;00;42 - 00;32;02;28
It has truly been an honor

00;32;03;29 - 00;32;04;20
Been my pleasure.

00;32;04;20 - 00;32;05;11
Absolutely.