The Power of Partnership
What if there is a way to transform society and create a world that values caring, nature, and shared prosperity? The POP podcast brings you the voices of people who are doing just that - people who are applying the Partnership ethos, the ground-breaking alternative to Domination Systems that are the root of our most pressing challenges. The Partnership movement was pioneered by Riane Eisler, internationally acclaimed author of The Chalice and the Blade, Nurturing Our Humanity, Sacred Pleasures, Tomorrow's Children, The Real Wealth of Nations and many more! Each episode includes information about essential tools from the Center for Partnership Systems, and beyond, to move away from the domination paradigm and create a Partnership world!
The Power of Partnership
Safe Conversations: From Conflict to Connection with Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt
In the Power of Partnership: Seven Relationships that Will Change Your Life, Riane Eisler describes the complex domination patterns in our personal connections and intimate relations as “the heart of the matter.” Join us as renowned couples therapists and authors, Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelly Hunt, share the transformative power of communication to resolve these complexities. Their unique process helps reshape communication from parallel monologues to shared listening and understanding that moves us from conflict to connection. The video version of this episode is available on YouTube at: https://youtu.be/zi9wM92Mcnw
Center for Partnership Systems
Harville and Helen (home page)
Sacred Pleasure: Sex, Myth and the Politics of the Body, Riane Eisler
The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future, Riane Eisler
Faith and Feminism, A Holy Alliance, Helen LaKelly Hunt
Resilience, Rising Appalachia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx17RvPMaQ8)
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Welcome
to the Power of Partnership podcast.
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I'm Riane Eisler, President of the Center
for Partnerships Systems.
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This podcast brings
you voices from the Partnership movement,
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People who use partnership practices
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to build a world that values caring
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nature and shared prosperity.
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The Power of Partnership Podcast
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is hosted by Cherri Jacobs Pruitt,
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a Health Policy and Partnership scholar.
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Today, Cherri interviews Harville
Hendrix
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and Helen LaKelly Hunt
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internationally respected couples
therapists,
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educators, speakers and New York Times
bestselling authors
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on how we can use safe conversations
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to move from conflict to connection.
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Helen and Harville.
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Welcome and thank you so much
for being guests on the Power
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of Partnership podcast.
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It is truly an honor
to be able to meet you and provide
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this opportunity for our listeners
to learn more about you
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and how your work has been informed
and enriched by Riane Eisler.
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Well, I had written a
book, Faith and Feminism
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Gloria Steinem was a
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real friend of mine and
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so I had done some books on
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women's philanthropy there at one point,
only male
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Caucasian males
were chairs of the boards of foundations.
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And Gloria knew I had started
a women's foundation where I lived.
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And because I learned about one
in San Francisco
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and now there are millions of them
because of that.
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And this is where Riane,
I'm sure, appreciated
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the inclusion of women
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in how money is distributed in the world.
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Women couldn't even
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like if someone
with inherited wealth married
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a man, women were not allowed
to go to banks to withdraw money.
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The husband had to go because they weren’t.
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Riane knows that the women women involved
makes a real difference.
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parallel you and
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Riane have been working
with patterns of domination.
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Riane
I think more in the culture at large.
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You had focus exclusively on women since
that was half the people on the planet
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and had made major contributions,
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both as an activist and as an author
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to dealing with gender domination.
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And the I think the first place I
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discovered Riane was actually long ago
and didn't
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realize the significance when the Chalice
and the Blade came out.
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That was a blockbuster
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and was really a powerful communication
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about the contrast between,
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you know, the spirituality
and the negative
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and war and domination and so forth.
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So she's been a force, I would say,
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Helen and I would say
she's been a force in the culture.
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She's been a contributor
to broadening our own perspective
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about what's going on at the local level
with the couple and a visionary
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about what is needed right now
in the world.
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Yeah.
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And so in your work,
can you share with us where you see
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those patterns of domination
or ways that the domination
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narrative plays out with the couples
you work with?
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it's an interesting phenomenon
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and very.
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And Riane was very luminous
about the intensity of her use of the word
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domination
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and the polarization of that
with partnership.
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we really assumed that the problems
in couples were psychological.
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It was a surprise
and a very luminous thing to know
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that you could help couples
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with their psychological memories
or their psychological issues.
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But there was still something going on
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that had been brought into their marriage
from the values of the culture.
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So that culture and psychology
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are implicated in the struggle.
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The couples have to relate to each other
and Riane’s book on partnership
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was a powerfully luminous piece
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in which she makes so clear,
there is a kind of verticality that was
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in the culture that gets transferred
into the marriage from the culture.
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And that is in the
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early family in the home and the parenting
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but that was also brought
to the parents from the culture
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so that the culture transcends us
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generations to show up in every marriage.
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When you're seeing these challenges
of the domination narrative
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and really that entrenched
cultural indoctrination
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towards domination within
the couples that you're working with,
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how do you manage that challenge?
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How do you help
change the narrative, Help them understand
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that there is an alternative way
which is really what we would like to help
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everyone understand at all levels
from our most intimate relationships,
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all the way to our relationships
across the globe and even with the
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entire planet.
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the short answer to what you ask
is that we teach people
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to move from monologue,
which is a vertical way of talking.
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I'm the one talking to a dialog,
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which is we take turns talking
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When we were dating,
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we dated for a couple
of years before I proposed.
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He. Five years before you proposed.
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He came in.
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He came over one night
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and we had
what is called a hot relationship,
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meaning we fought a lot.
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Yeah.
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That we had strong opinions
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and we were fighting
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and or having difference of opinion.
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And I was shocked at his
and he was shocked in mine.
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But then we kept expressing what we thought
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and then we were talking at the same time.
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And then I stood up and I said, Harville.
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Hey, one of us talks and the other listen
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and then take turns.
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You talk and I'll listen.
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And so that calmed us down.
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And then that became
what is called the dialog process.
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And so now our dialog process, we teach
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worldwide.
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Now the only someone told us
that the only other person
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that has ever taught dialog
as well as we do
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lived in
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330 B.C.
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and his name was Socrates
and he created Socratic dialog
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and it disrupted the youth in Greece
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and he was put to death
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and not till then has dialog been taught
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and this was Harville’s vision.
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This should be taught in high school,
this should be taught in college,
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and it should be taught
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before you get a marriage license
instead of like a driver's license.
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You have to take a test.
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And if you can prove you use dialog,
you get your marriage license.
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so the couples always come
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and they have an inequity
in their relationship of some sort.
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It's not always a male
domination and female.
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It could be female domination,
with the male.
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But it is a dynamic that there is
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and it focuses less around gender
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surprisingly in a marriage
as it does around
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who owns the truth.
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That is who
who owns the power in the relationship,
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who is going to make the decisions
and where are we going to live
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and how are we going to live
and what are we going to do with our lives
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or whatever?
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How do we parent
whose parenting styles through that?
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So there's that inequity.
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And usually and Helen,
you came out with the words
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that is called parallel monologue.
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Usually it's parallel monologue,
which is what we were doing
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in your living room that night.
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One of us was talking
the other one talking
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while the other one was talking
while the other one was talking.
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And so what you have is,
what is considered chaos
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and you don't even know
what you're talking about anymore.
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You just know that you're yelling
because you want your point of view out.
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And this is common, this is ordinary,
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and that it's can
and that it is a verticality.
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It is a form of I want to be in charge,
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which is a form of domination
of your mind, domination of
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who is or where we're going to eat dinner
and what time are going to eat dinner,
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when are we going to make love
and all of that that somebody wants to be
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in charge of that and that
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moving them from parallel monologue to
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dialog and holding them in that structure
where they had to get it,
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that your partner's mind is different
from yours,
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your partner's value system
is different from yours, and it's okay.
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Both are okay, both
are have their own value, which is equal.
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They're different but equal.
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That couples then using the way
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they talk, begin to integrate equity
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into the relationship at levels
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that are different
from the cultural domination
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controlled by system
but becomes a partner.
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They then become partners in the marriage
when they discover
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that I live with another person and I do.
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But I thought unconsciously,
I've been behaving as if I live
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with a copy of myself.
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And then she keeps saying stuff
that I don't think.
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Then it's like, What do we do with this?
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Well, we try to either extinguish it
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by criticizing it,
putting it down, or you listen.
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And when you listen,
you discover there’s another world over here.
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And it’s a world that is amazing
and wonderful
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and full,
and when you let it in, you grow.
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And something happens to the relationship,
which is you experience
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this sense of partnership and safety
and care for each other.
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And that's how we do that
at the very practical level of changing
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the way couples
talk from monologue to dialog.
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You are listening
to the Power of Partnership podcast.
00;11;54;09 - 00;11;57;34
If you would like us
to share your partnership story
00;11;57;39 - 00;12;02;15
or if you would like to become
a proud sponsor of the POP podcast,
00;12;02;20 - 00;12;07;48
please contact us at center@partnershipway.org
00;12;07;53 - 00;12;11;04
And now back to today's episode.
00;12;11;04 - 00;12;15;50
You just said a word, and that's what
I want to focus on the mind,
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change the mind.
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So we share with people
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a real brief conversation
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about the 2.8 pound
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organ that is in people's skull.
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This the most considered
by brain scientists,
00;12;33;38 - 00;12;36;30
the most complicated organ
in the universe.
00;12;36;30 - 00;12;39;44
Basically while, very complicated.
00;12;40;10 - 00;12;42;58
The brain can be seen as having
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two parts, a lower brain,
00;12;45;58 - 00;12;48;58
and we call it the crocodile brain,
00;12;49;22 - 00;12;52;22
because its function is to keep you alive.
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And it just it's going to work
no matter what it
00;12;57;34 - 00;13;00;16
when you get up in the morning,
you're hungry
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and you don't choose to be hungry,
You're hungry and maybe you need coffee.
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That's not a choice,
it's your body telling you I need it.
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Thank God for the crocodile.
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It keeps you alive. It keeps you healthy.
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But it's the part
00;13;17;38 - 00;13;21;14
that if someone disagrees with you,
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you can snap at them and go, that's wrong.
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So the other part of
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a person's head is the neocortex,
and we call it the wise owl.
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And when you use
the sentence tense of dialog and
00;13;40;16 - 00;13;42;20
take turns talking and listening
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it, you have to choose
00;13;45;08 - 00;13;48;22
what you're going to say
and that puts you in the neo cortex.
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And then is there more about that,
which is part of the dialog process,
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puts you into the dorsolateral
prefrontal cortex, a state of wonder,
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and it has relaxing neurochemicals
of acetylcholine,
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norepinephrine, serotonin,
and they're restful neurochemicals.
00;14;06;38 - 00;14;10;48
You sleep better at night
as opposed to adrenaline and cortisol
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when you're monologuing.
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And then someone else sees it differently
and they monologue.
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And so it's a healthy thing to do
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to learn
how to have healthy relationships.
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And that is what Riane's work
is, yeah, we are.
00;14;27;20 - 00;14;30;46
And we say
we're born to be in relationship.
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We have them.
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So don't monologue
your relationship use a part of your brain
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that's going to make you sleep
well at night by learning to use dialog.
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Yeah, and that's what we mean
by healthy relationship
00;14;46;08 - 00;14;48;12
is how you talk to each other. The
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exchange
00;14;50;26 - 00;14;53;24
is an embodiment of health or pathology.
00;14;54;04 - 00;14;58;40
So if you want to change
any difficulties, change the way you talk.
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And when you change the way you talk, you
change memories, you change experiences.
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Ultimately, if you do it long enough,
you'll change the neuronal patterns
00;15;07;46 - 00;15;09;10
in your brain.
00;15;09;10 - 00;15;12;10
We decided about ten years ago
00;15;12;44 - 00;15;16;16
we could teach dialog to everybody
that you didn't
00;15;16;48 - 00;15;20;46
you didn't have to reserve dialog
for couples, but that it could become
00;15;21;14 - 00;15;22;44
a cultural form of talking.
00;15;22;44 - 00;15;27;22
We call it safe conversations
when we move into the culture
00;15;27;22 - 00;15;30;38
and in the couples work,
we call it imago dialog
00;15;30;52 - 00;15;33;38
because that's
the name of our couples therapy.
00;15;33;38 - 00;15;37;10
But in the culture
we use the same dialog process, but
00;15;37;10 - 00;15;42;30
call it safe conversations and we strip
all the therapeutic complexities of it
00;15;42;58 - 00;15;46;14
and simply teach people
how to have conversations
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in which they become dialogical
00;15;49;34 - 00;15;52;10
and with the same assumption that when
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two different people in two
00;15;54;52 - 00;15;58;48
different organizations, two
different religions, two political parties
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talk to each other dialogically,
they move from who's right, who's wrong,
00;16;05;14 - 00;16;09;20
who's better, who's more moral to
there are two people here
00;16;09;36 - 00;16;13;38
and there are two worlds interacting,
and those worlds are equal values.
00;16;13;38 - 00;16;17;50
So our goal with safe conversations,
is to teach it to the planet,
00;16;18;08 - 00;16;22;30
we see we have a 30 year
timeline, 30 year project,
00;16;23;02 - 00;16;26;02
and our goal is to reach
00;16;26;16 - 00;16;29;48
3.2 billion people in the next 30 years
00;16;30;24 - 00;16;34;18
with one thing talk dialogically.
00;16;34;22 - 00;16;36;50
And we'll show them how to do it
and encourage them
00;16;36;50 - 00;16;38;34
to do and help them integrate it.
00;16;38;34 - 00;16;41;50
And the reason is 3.2 billion is that
00;16;42;46 - 00;16;44;56
that's the tipping point of the world's
00;16;44;56 - 00;16;47;54
population in 2050
00;16;47;54 - 00;16;50;52
The population will be 9.8 billion people.
00;16;50;52 - 00;16;53;30
Right now is 7.2 I think
00;16;54;54 - 00;16;58;04
it will move to you don't have to
you don't have to change everybody,
00;16;58;14 - 00;17;02;16
but you have to change enough people
that the cultural value changes
00;17;02;38 - 00;17;06;14
and then when it shifts, we call it
00;17;06;32 - 00;17;11;40
there's a collapse of the preceding
structure of the way people talk.
00;17;11;40 - 00;17;14;40
The dominant, the culture of domination.
00;17;15;00 - 00;17;19;36
When that collapses,
then arising out of the ashes
00;17;19;36 - 00;17;23;48
like the Phoenix is a new civilization,
and this civilization
00;17;24;10 - 00;17;27;02
will be one of equality, one of freedom,
00;17;27;02 - 00;17;30;02
one of diversity and one of inclusion,
00;17;30;02 - 00;17;33;24
and the mechanism of interaction
will be dialogical.
00;17;34;08 - 00;17;37;46
So that's what we are about
and what we see.
00;17;38;06 - 00;17;42;46
Riane is also about the same thing,
and we're on our paths to bring about
00;17;43;04 - 00;17;46;12
not only some improvements in culture,
00;17;46;22 - 00;17;51;08
but a transformation
of culture itself from
00;17;52;10 - 00;17;54;46
the values of domination and control
00;17;54;46 - 00;17;58;10
to the values of equality, inclusion,
00;17;59;26 - 00;18;02;30
freedom and celebration of diversity.
00;18;02;32 - 00;18;06;08
And we think that the dialogical process
is the lever
00;18;06;24 - 00;18;09;24
that can raise this world.
00;18;10;54 - 00;18;13;48
Beautiful,
00;18;13;48 - 00;18;16;06
such admirable goals.
00;18;16;06 - 00;18;21;08
We are so grateful for your presence on
this world and that you have been inspired
00;18;21;08 - 00;18;25;32
by Riane and are continuing to move us
towards a partnership oriented world.
00;18;25;56 - 00;18;29;34
Before we close, I want to let listeners
know that you can learn
00;18;29;34 - 00;18;33;38
more about Helen and Harvilles’ Safe
Conversations, workshops,
00;18;33;56 - 00;18;36;44
leadership trainings and resources
00;18;36;44 - 00;18;39;44
at Safe Conversations.com
00;18;39;48 - 00;18;42;58
and linked on the show notes
for this episode.
00;18;43;46 - 00;18;47;34
There will also be links on the show
notes to the Center for Partnerships
00;18;47;34 - 00;18;50;40
Systems, resources and courses and books
00;18;51;02 - 00;18;52;06
such as Riane's
00;18;52;16 - 00;18;56;42
Sacred Pleasure-New Paths to Power and Love00;00;20;02 - 00;00;23;44
Welcome
to the Power of Partnership podcast.
00;00;23;48 - 00;00;28;26
I'm Riane Eisler, President of the Center
for Partnerships Systems.
00;00;28;52 - 00;00;32;44
This podcast brings
you voices from the Partnership movement,
00;00;33;02 - 00;00;36;34
People who use partnership practices
00;00;37;14 - 00;00;40;14
to build a world that values caring
00;00;40;14 - 00;00;43;12
nature and shared prosperity.
00;00;43;20 - 00;00;45;58
The Power of Partnership Podcast
00;00;45;58 - 00;00;49;30
is hosted by Cherri Jacobs Pruitt,
00;00;50;02 - 00;00;53;02
a Health Policy and Partnership scholar.
00;00;53;34 - 00;00;57;28
Today, Cherri interviews Harville
Hendrix
00;00;57;54 - 00;01;00;36
and Helen LaKelly Hunt
00;01;00;36 - 00;01;04;06
internationally respected couples
therapists,
00;01;04;34 - 00;01;09;52
educators, speakers and New York Times
bestselling authors
00;01;10;26 - 00;01;14;08
on how we can use safe conversations
00;01;14;24 - 00;01;17;24
to move from conflict to connection.
00;01;32;06 - 00;01;33;28
Helen and Harville.
00;01;33;28 - 00;01;37;08
Welcome and thank you so much
for being guests on the Power
00;01;37;08 - 00;01;39;24
of Partnership podcast.
00;01;39;24 - 00;01;42;56
It is truly an honor
to be able to meet you and provide
00;01;42;56 - 00;01;46;32
this opportunity for our listeners
to learn more about you
00;01;46;50 - 00;01;50;16
and how your work has been informed
and enriched by Riane Eisler.
00;01;50;24 - 00;01;53;40
Well, I had written a
book, Faith and Feminism
00;01;53;45 - 00;01;55;39
Gloria Steinem was a
00;01;55;39 - 00;01;58;39
real friend of mine and
00;01;59;27 - 00;02;03;03
so I had done some books on
00;02;03;31 - 00;02;07;27
women's philanthropy there at one point,
only male
00;02;07;27 - 00;02;11;51
Caucasian males
were chairs of the boards of foundations.
00;02;12;17 - 00;02;19;11
And Gloria knew I had started
a women's foundation where I lived.
00;02;19;11 - 00;02;22;51
And because I learned about one
in San Francisco
00;02;22;51 - 00;02;25;53
and now there are millions of them
because of that.
00;02;25;55 - 00;02;29;31
And this is where Riane,
I'm sure, appreciated
00;02;30;21 - 00;02;32;45
the inclusion of women
00;02;32;45 - 00;02;36;09
in how money is distributed in the world.
00;02;36;17 - 00;02;39;09
Women couldn't even
00;02;39;09 - 00;02;41;57
like if someone
with inherited wealth married
00;02;41;57 - 00;02;48;29
a man, women were not allowed
to go to banks to withdraw money.
00;02;48;29 - 00;02;51;23
The husband had to go because they weren’t.
00;02;51;23 - 00;02;56;05
Riane knows that the women women involved
makes a real difference.
00;02;56;10 - 00;02;57;17
parallel you and
00;02;57;21 - 00;03;02;33
Riane have been working
with patterns of domination.
00;03;02;33 - 00;03;04;25
Riane
I think more in the culture at large.
00;03;04;25 - 00;03;09;37
You had focus exclusively on women since
that was half the people on the planet
00;03;10;09 - 00;03;12;45
and had made major contributions,
00;03;12;45 - 00;03;15;45
both as an activist and as an author
00;03;15;57 - 00;03;19;39
to dealing with gender domination.
00;03;20;08 - 00;03;23;06
And the I think the first place I
00;03;24;24 - 00;03;28;04
discovered Riane was actually long ago
and didn't
00;03;28;04 - 00;03;32;34
realize the significance when the Chalice
and the Blade came out.
00;03;33;02 - 00;03;35;40
That was a blockbuster
00;03;35;40 - 00;03;40;12
and was really a powerful communication
00;03;40;42 - 00;03;43;42
about the contrast between,
00;03;44;46 - 00;03;48;36
you know, the spirituality
and the negative
00;03;49;28 - 00;03;52;10
and war and domination and so forth.
00;03;52;10 - 00;03;55;08
So she's been a force, I would say,
00;03;55;14 - 00;03;58;14
Helen and I would say
she's been a force in the culture.
00;03;58;26 - 00;04;02;20
She's been a contributor
to broadening our own perspective
00;04;02;40 - 00;04;06;52
about what's going on at the local level
with the couple and a visionary
00;04;06;52 - 00;04;10;40
about what is needed right now
in the world.
00;04;10;44 - 00;04;11;22
Yeah.
00;04;11;22 - 00;04;14;56
And so in your work,
can you share with us where you see
00;04;14;56 - 00;04;18;54
those patterns of domination
or ways that the domination
00;04;18;54 - 00;04;21;54
narrative plays out with the couples
you work with?
00;04;21;54 - 00;04;26;12
it's an interesting phenomenon
00;04;28;04 - 00;04;29;04
and very.
00;04;29;04 - 00;04;36;10
And Riane was very luminous
about the intensity of her use of the word
00;04;36;10 - 00;04;38;04
domination
00;04;38;04 - 00;04;41;04
and the polarization of that
with partnership.
00;04;41;22 - 00;04;45;34
we really assumed that the problems
in couples were psychological.
00;04;46;06 - 00;04;50;06
It was a surprise
and a very luminous thing to know
00;04;50;34 - 00;04;52;16
that you could help couples
00;04;52;16 - 00;04;55;32
with their psychological memories
or their psychological issues.
00;04;56;02 - 00;04;58;52
But there was still something going on
00;04;58;52 - 00;05;03;30
that had been brought into their marriage
from the values of the culture.
00;05;04;04 - 00;05;07;02
So that culture and psychology
00;05;07;02 - 00;05;09;48
are implicated in the struggle.
00;05;09;48 - 00;05;14;54
The couples have to relate to each other
and Riane’s book on partnership
00;05;15;06 - 00;05;18;26
was a powerfully luminous piece
00;05;19;14 - 00;05;23;40
in which she makes so clear,
there is a kind of verticality that was
00;05;23;40 - 00;05;27;42
in the culture that gets transferred
into the marriage from the culture.
00;05;28;04 - 00;05;30;46
And that is in the
00;05;32;08 - 00;05;35;00
early family in the home and the parenting
00;05;35;00 - 00;05;38;00
but that was also brought
to the parents from the culture
00;05;38;16 - 00;05;40;54
so that the culture transcends us
00;05;40;54 - 00;05;43;54
generations to show up in every marriage.
00;05;44;01 - 00;05;48;51
When you're seeing these challenges
of the domination narrative
00;05;48;51 - 00;05;53;01
and really that entrenched
cultural indoctrination
00;05;53;01 - 00;05;57;37
towards domination within
the couples that you're working with,
00;05;58;37 - 00;06;00;45
how do you manage that challenge?
00;06;00;45 - 00;06;04;41
How do you help
change the narrative, Help them understand
00;06;04;41 - 00;06;09;35
that there is an alternative way
which is really what we would like to help
00;06;09;35 - 00;06;13;25
everyone understand at all levels
from our most intimate relationships,
00;06;13;25 - 00;06;16;43
all the way to our relationships
across the globe and even with the
00;06;17;53 - 00;06;18;50
entire planet.
00;06;18;50 - 00;06;23;46
the short answer to what you ask
is that we teach people
00;06;24;12 - 00;06;28;42
to move from monologue,
which is a vertical way of talking.
00;06;29;02 - 00;06;32;06
I'm the one talking to a dialog,
00;06;32;06 - 00;06;35;05
which is we take turns talking
00;06;35;05 - 00;06;38;05
When we were dating,
00;06;38;33 - 00;06;41;09
we dated for a couple
of years before I proposed.
00;06;42;17 - 00;06;44;59
He. Five years before you proposed.
00;06;44;59 - 00;06;48;09
He came in.
00;06;48;37 - 00;06;51;37
He came over one night
00;06;51;41 - 00;06;54;41
and we had
what is called a hot relationship,
00;06;56;07 - 00;06;57;33
meaning we fought a lot.
00;06;57;33 - 00;06;58;57
Yeah.
00;06;58;57 - 00;07;01;51
That we had strong opinions
00;07;01;51 - 00;07;04;27
and we were fighting
00;07;04;27 - 00;07;07;27
and or having difference of opinion.
00;07;07;51 - 00;07;10;57
And I was shocked at his
and he was shocked in mine.
00;07;11;37 - 00;07;14;51
But then we kept expressing what we thought
00;07;15;39 - 00;07;18;07
and then we were talking at the same time.
00;07;18;10 - 00;07;22;22
And then I stood up and I said, Harville.
00;07;22;26 - 00;07;26;04
Hey, one of us talks and the other listen
00;07;27;14 - 00;07;29;14
and then take turns.
00;07;29;14 - 00;07;31;28
You talk and I'll listen.
00;07;31;28 - 00;07;33;24
And so that calmed us down.
00;07;33;24 - 00;07;37;38
And then that became
what is called the dialog process.
00;07;38;08 - 00;07;42;18
And so now our dialog process, we teach
00;07;43;32 - 00;07;44;52
worldwide.
00;07;44;52 - 00;07;49;58
Now the only someone told us
that the only other person
00;07;49;58 - 00;07;54;51
that has ever taught dialog
as well as we do
00;07;54;51 - 00;07;56;18
lived in
00;07;56;18 - 00;07;58;55
330 B.C.
00;07;59;15 - 00;08;03;21
and his name was Socrates
and he created Socratic dialog
00;08;03;45 - 00;08;06;47
and it disrupted the youth in Greece
00;08;07;29 - 00;08;10;21
and he was put to death
00;08;10;21 - 00;08;15;23
and not till then has dialog been taught
00;08;17;23 - 00;08;19;17
and this was Harville’s vision.
00;08;19;17 - 00;08;22;17
This should be taught in high school,
this should be taught in college,
00;08;22;39 - 00;08;23;39
and it should be taught
00;08;23;39 - 00;08;28;21
before you get a marriage license
instead of like a driver's license.
00;08;28;21 - 00;08;29;45
You have to take a test.
00;08;29;45 - 00;08;32;57
And if you can prove you use dialog,
you get your marriage license.
00;08;33;24 - 00;08;36;36
so the couples always come
00;08;37;04 - 00;08;42;08
and they have an inequity
in their relationship of some sort.
00;08;42;42 - 00;08;47;02
It's not always a male
domination and female.
00;08;47;02 - 00;08;50;00
It could be female domination,
with the male.
00;08;50;26 - 00;08;55;02
But it is a dynamic that there is
00;08;56;06 - 00;08;59;26
and it focuses less around gender
00;09;00;04 - 00;09;04;04
surprisingly in a marriage
as it does around
00;09;04;28 - 00;09;07;28
who owns the truth.
00;09;07;42 - 00;09;11;18
That is who
who owns the power in the relationship,
00;09;11;42 - 00;09;15;30
who is going to make the decisions
and where are we going to live
00;09;15;30 - 00;09;19;18
and how are we going to live
and what are we going to do with our lives
00;09;19;18 - 00;09;19;56
or whatever?
00;09;19;56 - 00;09;23;28
How do we parent
whose parenting styles through that?
00;09;23;28 - 00;09;25;12
So there's that inequity.
00;09;25;12 - 00;09;28;10
And usually and Helen,
you came out with the words
00;09;28;10 - 00;09;31;10
that is called parallel monologue.
00;09;31;22 - 00;09;34;24
Usually it's parallel monologue,
which is what we were doing
00;09;34;36 - 00;09;36;16
in your living room that night.
00;09;36;16 - 00;09;39;10
One of us was talking
the other one talking
00;09;39;10 - 00;09;42;10
while the other one was talking
while the other one was talking.
00;09;42;22 - 00;09;46;34
And so what you have is,
what is considered chaos
00;09;46;48 - 00;09;49;14
and you don't even know
what you're talking about anymore.
00;09;49;14 - 00;09;54;36
You just know that you're yelling
because you want your point of view out.
00;09;55;16 - 00;09;58;08
And this is common, this is ordinary,
00;09;58;08 - 00;10;01;40
and that it's can
and that it is a verticality.
00;10;01;40 - 00;10;04;40
It is a form of I want to be in charge,
00;10;04;40 - 00;10;08;28
which is a form of domination
of your mind, domination of
00;10;09;12 - 00;10;12;32
who is or where we're going to eat dinner
and what time are going to eat dinner,
00;10;12;38 - 00;10;15;54
when are we going to make love
and all of that that somebody wants to be
00;10;15;54 - 00;10;17;48
in charge of that and that
00;10;17;52 - 00;10;21;14
moving them from parallel monologue to
00;10;21;56 - 00;10;27;00
dialog and holding them in that structure
where they had to get it,
00;10;27;14 - 00;10;30;14
that your partner's mind is different
from yours,
00;10;30;14 - 00;10;34;30
your partner's value system
is different from yours, and it's okay.
00;10;34;30 - 00;10;39;10
Both are okay, both
are have their own value, which is equal.
00;10;39;28 - 00;10;41;08
They're different but equal.
00;10;41;08 - 00;10;44;00
That couples then using the way
00;10;44;00 - 00;10;47;24
they talk, begin to integrate equity
00;10;47;40 - 00;10;50;40
into the relationship at levels
00;10;51;00 - 00;10;54;16
that are different
from the cultural domination
00;10;54;16 - 00;10;57;12
controlled by system
but becomes a partner.
00;10;57;12 - 00;11;00;50
They then become partners in the marriage
when they discover
00;11;00;50 - 00;11;04;46
that I live with another person and I do.
00;11;05;24 - 00;11;09;06
But I thought unconsciously,
I've been behaving as if I live
00;11;09;06 - 00;11;11;16
with a copy of myself.
00;11;11;16 - 00;11;14;38
And then she keeps saying stuff
that I don't think.
00;11;15;00 - 00;11;16;52
Then it's like, What do we do with this?
00;11;16;52 - 00;11;19;26
Well, we try to either extinguish it
00;11;19;26 - 00;11;22;46
by criticizing it,
putting it down, or you listen.
00;11;23;24 - 00;11;26;44
And when you listen,
you discover there’s another world over here.
00;11;27;06 - 00;11;30;16
And it’s a world that is amazing
and wonderful
00;11;30;16 - 00;11;33;16
and full,
and when you let it in, you grow.
00;11;33;20 - 00;11;38;00
And something happens to the relationship,
which is you experience
00;11;38;00 - 00;11;41;34
this sense of partnership and safety
and care for each other.
00;11;41;52 - 00;11;45;22
And that's how we do that
at the very practical level of changing
00;11;45;22 - 00;11;49;42
the way couples
talk from monologue to dialog.
00;11;50;11 - 00;11;54;04
You are listening
to the Power of Partnership podcast.
00;11;54;09 - 00;11;57;34
If you would like us
to share your partnership story
00;11;57;39 - 00;12;02;15
or if you would like to become
a proud sponsor of the POP podcast,
00;12;02;20 - 00;12;07;48
please contact us at center@partnershipway.org
00;12;07;53 - 00;12;11;04
And now back to today's episode.
00;12;11;04 - 00;12;15;50
You just said a word, and that's what
I want to focus on the mind,
00;12;16;50 - 00;12;17;52
change the mind.
00;12;17;52 - 00;12;21;24
So we share with people
00;12;21;24 - 00;12;24;48
a real brief conversation
00;12;25;22 - 00;12;27;54
about the 2.8 pound
00;12;27;54 - 00;12;30;52
organ that is in people's skull.
00;12;30;52 - 00;12;33;38
This the most considered
by brain scientists,
00;12;33;38 - 00;12;36;30
the most complicated organ
in the universe.
00;12;36;30 - 00;12;39;44
Basically while, very complicated.
00;12;40;10 - 00;12;42;58
The brain can be seen as having
00;12;42;58 - 00;12;45;58
two parts, a lower brain,
00;12;45;58 - 00;12;48;58
and we call it the crocodile brain,
00;12;49;22 - 00;12;52;22
because its function is to keep you alive.
00;12;53;06 - 00;12;56;36
And it just it's going to work
no matter what it
00;12;57;34 - 00;13;00;16
when you get up in the morning,
you're hungry
00;13;00;16 - 00;13;04;12
and you don't choose to be hungry,
You're hungry and maybe you need coffee.
00;13;04;12 - 00;13;08;56
That's not a choice,
it's your body telling you I need it.
00;13;09;42 - 00;13;11;38
Thank God for the crocodile.
00;13;11;38 - 00;13;14;38
It keeps you alive. It keeps you healthy.
00;13;14;48 - 00;13;17;38
But it's the part
00;13;17;38 - 00;13;21;14
that if someone disagrees with you,
00;13;22;26 - 00;13;25;26
you can snap at them and go, that's wrong.
00;13;25;38 - 00;13;28;38
So the other part of
00;13;29;28 - 00;13;33;52
a person's head is the neocortex,
and we call it the wise owl.
00;13;34;32 - 00;13;38;48
And when you use
the sentence tense of dialog and
00;13;40;16 - 00;13;42;20
take turns talking and listening
00;13;42;20 - 00;13;45;08
it, you have to choose
00;13;45;08 - 00;13;48;22
what you're going to say
and that puts you in the neo cortex.
00;13;49;02 - 00;13;53;26
And then is there more about that,
which is part of the dialog process,
00;13;54;00 - 00;13;58;22
puts you into the dorsolateral
prefrontal cortex, a state of wonder,
00;13;58;46 - 00;14;02;20
and it has relaxing neurochemicals
of acetylcholine,
00;14;02;20 - 00;14;06;38
norepinephrine, serotonin,
and they're restful neurochemicals.
00;14;06;38 - 00;14;10;48
You sleep better at night
as opposed to adrenaline and cortisol
00;14;11;06 - 00;14;12;32
when you're monologuing.
00;14;12;32 - 00;14;15;38
And then someone else sees it differently
and they monologue.
00;14;15;38 - 00;14;18;58
And so it's a healthy thing to do
00;14;19;26 - 00;14;22;40
to learn
how to have healthy relationships.
00;14;23;02 - 00;14;27;20
And that is what Riane's work
is, yeah, we are.
00;14;27;20 - 00;14;30;46
And we say
we're born to be in relationship.
00;14;30;46 - 00;14;32;04
We have them.
00;14;32;04 - 00;14;37;16
So don't monologue
your relationship use a part of your brain
00;14;37;18 - 00;14;42;16
that's going to make you sleep
well at night by learning to use dialog.
00;14;42;34 - 00;14;46;08
Yeah, and that's what we mean
by healthy relationship
00;14;46;08 - 00;14;48;12
is how you talk to each other. The
00;14;49;12 - 00;14;50;26
exchange
00;14;50;26 - 00;14;53;24
is an embodiment of health or pathology.
00;14;54;04 - 00;14;58;40
So if you want to change
any difficulties, change the way you talk.
00;14;59;22 - 00;15;03;30
And when you change the way you talk, you
change memories, you change experiences.
00;15;03;56 - 00;15;07;46
Ultimately, if you do it long enough,
you'll change the neuronal patterns
00;15;07;46 - 00;15;09;10
in your brain.
00;15;09;10 - 00;15;12;10
We decided about ten years ago
00;15;12;44 - 00;15;16;16
we could teach dialog to everybody
that you didn't
00;15;16;48 - 00;15;20;46
you didn't have to reserve dialog
for couples, but that it could become
00;15;21;14 - 00;15;22;44
a cultural form of talking.
00;15;22;44 - 00;15;27;22
We call it safe conversations
when we move into the culture
00;15;27;22 - 00;15;30;38
and in the couples work,
we call it imago dialog
00;15;30;52 - 00;15;33;38
because that's
the name of our couples therapy.
00;15;33;38 - 00;15;37;10
But in the culture
we use the same dialog process, but
00;15;37;10 - 00;15;42;30
call it safe conversations and we strip
all the therapeutic complexities of it
00;15;42;58 - 00;15;46;14
and simply teach people
how to have conversations
00;15;46;40 - 00;15;49;34
in which they become dialogical
00;15;49;34 - 00;15;52;10
and with the same assumption that when
00;15;53;28 - 00;15;54;52
two different people in two
00;15;54;52 - 00;15;58;48
different organizations, two
different religions, two political parties
00;15;59;50 - 00;16;05;14
talk to each other dialogically,
they move from who's right, who's wrong,
00;16;05;14 - 00;16;09;20
who's better, who's more moral to
there are two people here
00;16;09;36 - 00;16;13;38
and there are two worlds interacting,
and those worlds are equal values.
00;16;13;38 - 00;16;17;50
So our goal with safe conversations,
is to teach it to the planet,
00;16;18;08 - 00;16;22;30
we see we have a 30 year
timeline, 30 year project,
00;16;23;02 - 00;16;26;02
and our goal is to reach
00;16;26;16 - 00;16;29;48
3.2 billion people in the next 30 years
00;16;30;24 - 00;16;34;18
with one thing talk dialogically.
00;16;34;22 - 00;16;36;50
And we'll show them how to do it
and encourage them
00;16;36;50 - 00;16;38;34
to do and help them integrate it.
00;16;38;34 - 00;16;41;50
And the reason is 3.2 billion is that
00;16;42;46 - 00;16;44;56
that's the tipping point of the world's
00;16;44;56 - 00;16;47;54
population in 2050
00;16;47;54 - 00;16;50;52
The population will be 9.8 billion people.
00;16;50;52 - 00;16;53;30
Right now is 7.2 I think
00;16;54;54 - 00;16;58;04
it will move to you don't have to
you don't have to change everybody,
00;16;58;14 - 00;17;02;16
but you have to change enough people
that the cultural value changes
00;17;02;38 - 00;17;06;14
and then when it shifts, we call it
00;17;06;32 - 00;17;11;40
there's a collapse of the preceding
structure of the way people talk.
00;17;11;40 - 00;17;14;40
The dominant, the culture of domination.
00;17;15;00 - 00;17;19;36
When that collapses,
then arising out of the ashes
00;17;19;36 - 00;17;23;48
like the Phoenix is a new civilization,
and this civilization
00;17;24;10 - 00;17;27;02
will be one of equality, one of freedom,
00;17;27;02 - 00;17;30;02
one of diversity and one of inclusion,
00;17;30;02 - 00;17;33;24
and the mechanism of interaction
will be dialogical.
00;17;34;08 - 00;17;37;46
So that's what we are about
and what we see.
00;17;38;06 - 00;17;42;46
Riane is also about the same thing,
and we're on our paths to bring about
00;17;43;04 - 00;17;46;12
not only some improvements in culture,
00;17;46;22 - 00;17;51;08
but a transformation
of culture itself from
00;17;52;10 - 00;17;54;46
the values of domination and control
00;17;54;46 - 00;17;58;10
to the values of equality, inclusion,
00;17;59;26 - 00;18;02;30
freedom and celebration of diversity.
00;18;02;32 - 00;18;06;08
And we think that the dialogical process
is the lever
00;18;06;24 - 00;18;09;24
that can raise this world.
00;18;10;54 - 00;18;13;48
Beautiful,
00;18;13;48 - 00;18;16;06
such admirable goals.
00;18;16;06 - 00;18;21;08
We are so grateful for your presence on
this world and that you have been inspired
00;18;21;08 - 00;18;25;32
by Riane and are continuing to move us
towards a partnership oriented world.
00;18;25;56 - 00;18;29;34
Before we close, I want to let listeners
know that you can learn
00;18;29;34 - 00;18;33;38
more about Helen and Harvilles’ Safe
Conversations, workshops,
00;18;33;56 - 00;18;36;44
leadership trainings and resources
00;18;36;44 - 00;18;39;44
at Safe Conversations.com
00;18;39;48 - 00;18;42;58
and linked on the show notes
for this episode.
00;18;43;46 - 00;18;47;34
There will also be links on the show
notes to the Center for Partnerships
00;18;47;34 - 00;18;50;40
Systems, resources and courses and books
00;18;51;02 - 00;18;52;06
such as Riane's
00;18;52;16 - 00;18;56;42
Sacred Pleasure-New Paths to Power and Love