Partnership Education the Montessori Way with Tim Seldin

In her book, Tomorrow’s Children: A Blueprint for Partnership Education in the 21st Century, Riane Eisler describes a Partnership education system as one that nurtures flexibility, creativity and the ability to think critically - skills needed to meet the challenges of our rapidly changing, technologically oriented, world.  In this episode, Cherri Jacobs Pruitt interviews Tim Seldin about how Montessori Education is an international model of a thriving Partnership education system.  This interview will leave you inspired and with a blueprint for embracing Partnership education to inspire a love of learner for all children.   

International Montessori Foundation

Center for Partnership Systems

Tomorrow’s Children: A Blueprint for Partnership Education in the 21st Century, Riane Eisler

Nurturing our Humanity: How Domination and Partnership Shape Our Brains, Lives, and Future, Riane Eisler

Inside Montessori documentary

Center for Montessori Research, University of Kansas

City Montessori School, Lucknow, India 

Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future, Riane Eisler

Raffi, Tomorrow’s Children (song)
Resilience, Rising Appalachia

Chapters

• 0:20 Nurturing a Partnership Approach in Education
• 14:33 Transforming Education Systems to Partnership-Based Models

Transcript

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Welcome
to the Power of Partnership podcast.

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I'm Riane Eisler, President of the Center
for Partnership Systems.

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This podcast brings
you voices from the partnership

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movement,
people using partnership practices

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to build a world that values caring

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nature and shared prosperity.

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The Power of Partnership podcast is hosted

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by Cherri Jacobs Pruitt,

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a health policy and Partnership scholar.

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Today, Cherri interviews
Tim Seldin, author,

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educator
and President of the Montessori Foundation

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and Chair
of International Montessori Council.

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And now on to the POP podcast

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showing how we can nurture

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the love of learning in all children.

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Welcome, Tim,

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and thank you so much for joining us
for the Power of Partnership podcast.

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I'd like to begin by asking you
to share the difference

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between education systems
that are really grounded in partnership

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ethos versus
those types of education systems

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that really come
from a very entrenched domination

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ideology or focus?

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Well, in a nutshell, there’re

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very few systems in the world that are not

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teaching children
on the basis of domination.

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I mean, the assumption is
that children are lazy

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and won't do what they need to do unless
somebody deprives them or coerces them.

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So there's normally a government involved
and it has ideas

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about what children need to know.

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And some of
it has to do with literacy and,

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you know, skill with arithmetic,
and some of it has to do

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with being a good citizen
or patriotic and obedient.

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But I'd say a domination is the norm.

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Now there are degrees.

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You know,
we don't see too many schools that

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cane children in public these days,
although it does happen.

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And I have seen it we don't see

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the dunce hats
and sitting kids in the corner.

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But you know, sending kids to the office
or suspension or frankly,

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you know, living in fear,
I mean, the average modern American

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public school has a security guard and,
as you know, some kind

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of a metal detector and, you know,
very limited ways of getting in and out

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and they live in fear of someone
coming in and shooting.

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I'd say that's.

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I'm not suggesting we're creating

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that dominator culture,
but the kids are certainly experiencing

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a culture that's not one of safety

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and security and freedom from fear.

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And again,
I don't blame the schools for that.

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But it is really sad
that so many schools have to do it.

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I think also,
just in a normal public school

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or many private schools,
I imagine there may be a P.A.

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system where, you know, you're
hearing announcements throughout the day.

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You know, well, will Johnny Jones
please come to the office?

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And remember, today is hopscotch day.

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You'll need to bring your tickets
for the big game tomorrow, or whatever.

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And this just interrupts
children's concentration

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and that sense of being able

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to just quietly do their work
or to really attend

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and so it's always amazing to me.

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We're talking so much in education
these days about executive function

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skills, which is essentially the ability
to stay focused, to follow through,

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to organize your own time,
to resist temptation and so forth.

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But we throw so many obstacles

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there are schools that are child

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honoring and that very deliberately try

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to create a culture
where we're not doing that.

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So I think in part, you've really got
to go to the deeper question

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What does it

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take to create a partnership school?

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So again, Riane Eisler, in her

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thinking, talks about needing three things

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the partnership structure,

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a partnership process

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and a partnership content.

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Montessori has all three.

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Specifically,

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a partnership structure means that the way

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the school is organized,
its policies have got to be oriented

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to seeing each child as a universe of one
where we recognize

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they learn learning in different ways
and learn at different paces,

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and they have different interests.

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And yes, there are things
that in our society, this particular

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time in history,
there is skill and knowledge

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that we would expect a well-educated human
being to understand or to be able to do.

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There are also things
that kids need to learn,

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but kids don't learn at the same pace
and they don't learn in the same way.

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And anyone
who thinks you can teach a course

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day by day
and you're going to actually achieve

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a reasonable level of knowledge
across the board unless you stack the deck

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by gathering together
kids who are good at doing school

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is really not thinking very clearly.

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It's just not what happens.

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You get a bell curve of achievement.

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In Montessori
we recognize kids are different.

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We recognize that
whatever we do with kids,

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some of them are going to be
absolutely in tune with it

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and they'll ring like a bell
they’ll be excited,

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they'll be absolutely fascinated,
want to learn more.

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And there'll be other kids who are okay
and other kids

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who really are turned off and or resistant

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or anxious or feel phobic about that,

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recognizing that people learn
in different ways at different paces.

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Part of what you're trying to do is create

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a relationship
where the child is ready to learn.

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That means as much as anything else,
they have to feel safe

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in front of their friends

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because what causes
most stress in school is not the teacher.

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It's not teacher causing most of the pain.

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It's the other students in
and outside of school bullying, whatever

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you want to call it, the laughing,
the snickers, the dirty looks.

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And so creating a culture

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where kids really don't do that
to each other

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is essential, obviously,
to get to that culture,

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you need to have a system
that really values that culture.

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Partially we do it

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by having multiple ages together to first

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allow kids to learn from older kids
because every kid wants to do

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what the big kids can do there
all fascinated by the big kids.

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Secondly, it's really good for a kid to be

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in that position of entering

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the experience, the middle experience
and the oldest in the experience.

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So we design our schools around children

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and our policies of, again,
how we structure the day or having kids

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in a community where there's

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minimal turnover
from one year to the next.

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And, shall we say, development

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of a class culture or a community culture

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that doesn't get torn apart
when we have the summer break.

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And by the way,
I don't know why we have the summer break

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because we're no longer
sending the kids off to the country to

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help with the harvest.

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But we do a summer break
and everyone's used to it

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and that's
what they think is got to happen.

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And then we bemoan the loss of learning
after three months of

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basically watching cartoons or doing
whatever they do during the summer.

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Why can't those recreational things
be built into the school day,

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the school year?

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I don't know.

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Why can't kids take vacation

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when they want to take vacation
with their families?

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I don't know.

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You get a certain
number of days of school, you accomplish

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a certain amount So again,
I think it's all about systems.

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And to

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do this
correctly, you have to have a real plan

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for preparing your teachers
and you've got to overcome

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a lifetime.

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In most people's cases
of being indoctrinated into

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a totally different culture
and a totally different idea

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of how children relate to each other

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and how children relate to adults
and how school is done.

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And that's hard.

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I mean, we all swear to ourselves
as parents

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when we've got kids, we're going to do it
differently than our parents did.

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And then we have kids
and we get tired and frustrated.

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We hear our mother or father’s
voice coming out of our mouths

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and we realize,
Oh my God, I’ve become my mother.

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So helping teachers

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to learn
how to do it in a totally different way,

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which is not only how
to how to evaluate learning

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and how

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to report
on learning to the administration,

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to the family, to the student.

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But it's also on

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how do you facilitate a child's
love of learning?

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How do you
how do you inspire a sense of wonder?

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How do you get them really interested
and how do you get them?

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I mean, they need to move. Nice.

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The last thing that Riane talks about though

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in addition to partnership
structure, partnership process,

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and we've only glanced on those two

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things is partnership content.

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And for what it's worth, Montessori comes
the closest of anything

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we know
now in terms of covering the content

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that Riane speaks about in Tomorrow's
Children.

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And we do it imperfectly.

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I mean, one of the reasons
why I found her book really

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interesting is that she took Montessori.

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She mentions Montessori again and again
and again as a point of departure

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and suggests
other things that one could do.

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And as a

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Montessori teacher, educator
and a researcher,

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I certainly find what Riane imagined back
when she wrote that book

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to be exciting and important
and one of the projects

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she's asked us to begin at the Montessori
foundation is to try to get people from

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both within the Montessori educational
community, which is pretty large,

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100,000 educators in the US,

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and anyone from the outside
who is interested

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to begin to try to take the ideas

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that she wrote about in that book.

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We hope to be a second edition
updating it sometime in the near future.

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But even if they don’t Riane
in her various books,

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most recently, Nurturing our Humanity

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really speaks about things
that children ought to know.

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Children don't have access to it, whether
it's about the bonobo or about, you know,

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the history

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of humanity and what archeology
is revealing to us.

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As Margaret
Mead was asked and answered, once,

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you know, when did civilization begin
and she said it’s when we find

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the first skeletal remains of a femur
that was broken and healed,

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because for that to happen,
the people of the clan had to care enough

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to bring water
and to provide food for this person

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until they're able to heal, which would
been an extended period of time.

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That's an important
example of what children need to know.

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Has there been violence in human history?

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Of course.

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Is there violence in the world? Yes.

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Are we capable of something better? Yes.

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And that's
what we're trying to do, is teach children

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not just about it in theory we
want to teach them to live it

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to do it everyday just as second nature.

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Can you speak

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a bit about the partnership
based systems of education

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and the preparation
that they're providing our

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youth, our children
and youth for being successful adults,

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for being able to be functioning adults
in this rapidly evolving

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technologically oriented culture?

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Well, again, I have seen very few schools
that I would call partnership

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oriented other than Montessori schools,
but I have seen some,

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and the common thread
that I see across them

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is young people who look at those schools
as the best educational experiences

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they had, whether they attended them
only for a few years

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or all the way

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that they encourage them
to find their own voice

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to think for themselves to think deeply
to think outside of the box.

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So they're usually kids who feel like
they have agency in their life.

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They were given a choice,
they were given respect.

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They seemed to

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have really good people skills.

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They certainly tend to

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be more oriented
to thinking outside of the box.

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And initiating projects
and coming up with novel solutions.

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So if you Google, for example,

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the word Montessori Mafia,

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you'll come up with many tens

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of thousands of articles,
mostly from the world's financial

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press and business press,
talking about the uncanny number

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of innovators and leaders around the world

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who attribute their Montessori education
to what they are.

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Somebody suggested
if it's almost like it is a conspiracy,

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which is where the mafia came in

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but I think that basically
you see higher levels of mental health

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they may or may not have the highest test
scores, but

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the level of mental health and happiness
seems to be much, much higher.

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So I think that's some of what
I have sensed over my years.

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I mean, certainly running a Montessori
school myself for almost 50 years now,

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I've rarely had to deal with a discipline
problem of any significance.

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And normally, when a child does
do something inappropriate,

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that just becomes an opportunity
for a real discussion and a moral lesson

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among the people affected,
where they figure it out together

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instead of

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simply, you know, punishing
somebody So, Tim,

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what next for policymakers,

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educators, parents, students?

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What needs to happen
to transform education systems

00;16;07;27 - 00;16;12;23
across the world to partnership
based models such as Montessori?

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Well, short.

00;16;14;08 - 00;16;18;36
I can tell you that most colleges
of education in America,

00;16;19;33 - 00;16;22;33
from what I have been told
and what I've heard from

00;16;22;51 - 00;16;26;36
attending meetings with the deans
in these schools of education,

00;16;27;05 - 00;16;30;24
they're well aware modern brain research.

00;16;30;24 - 00;16;36;53
They know that the way schools are
traditionally organized are not logical.

00;16;36;53 - 00;16;39;52
They're inconsistent with
what would be best practice.

00;16;40;19 - 00;16;44;42
They're desperately trying to help
teachers to learn how to make change.

00;16;45;09 - 00;16;48;34
And what they say is we send these
young people out into the classrooms

00;16;48;52 - 00;16;52;57
and they very quickly become disillusioned
because they get there

00;16;53;20 - 00;16;54;05
and they're told

00;16;54;05 - 00;16;55;24
this is what you're going to teach

00;16;55;24 - 00;16;58;17
and this is the pacing guide
you're going to follow.

00;16;58;17 - 00;17;01;55
And this is the test
you have prepare kids to take.

00;17;02;09 - 00;17;05;05
And this is the consequence
If your kids don't look good

00;17;05;05 - 00;17;10;51
, you know, it's very, very difficult.

00;17;10;51 - 00;17;13;16
Go ahead.

00;17;13;16 - 00;17;16;28
We will work on it in multiple ways.

00;17;16;36 - 00;17;21;59
We look at from the point of view
of trying to help the people

00;17;22;17 - 00;17;24;45
who are making the decisions
at the schools

00;17;24;45 - 00;17;29;22
the people in the state legislatures,
the people in the state

00;17;29;22 - 00;17;34;04
departments of education,
the local school board, the principals.

00;17;34;26 - 00;17;39;03
We're trying on the one level to help them
to see there is another better way.

00;17;39;37 - 00;17;42;19
There's a very interesting documentary

00;17;42;19 - 00;17;45;04
that was made about
Montessori for that purpose

00;17;46;02 - 00;17;47;01
just a few years

00;17;47;01 - 00;17;50;53
ago called Inside Montessori,
and I certainly recommend

00;17;50;53 - 00;17;55;09
anyone is listening to this
who seriously interested in learning more.

00;17;55;44 - 00;17;57;59
Get a hold of that documentary.

00;17;57;59 - 00;18;00;33
It could be streamed online.

00;18;00;33 - 00;18;02;49
Inside Montessori.

00;18;02;49 - 00;18;07;19
Attempts to explain Montessori
to non Montessorians

00;18;07;20 - 00;18;11;32
and it does so in a way
that's oriented to the inner cities

00;18;11;32 - 00;18;15;58
and the rural poor
and to underserved populations.

00;18;16;15 - 00;18;19;00
Showing how Montessori is being used

00;18;19;00 - 00;18;22;21
around the country in public
and private settings

00;18;22;43 - 00;18;25;43
to make a real difference
in the lives of children.

00;18;26;35 - 00;18;30;32
So first you have to get people
to at least be aware something else

00;18;31;24 - 00;18;34;24
might be part of the answer.

00;18;34;58 - 00;18;36;55
Secondly, we've got to get more research.

00;18;36;55 - 00;18;40;53
We've got some good research out there,
but it's usually done by people

00;18;40;53 - 00;18;45;42
who have a direct connection to Montessori
which is obviously going to be suspect.

00;18;45;58 - 00;18;51;35
So we need more and more research done
on fully implemented Montessori programs

00;18;52;21 - 00;18;56;51
by people who are dispassionate
and objective outside evaluators.

00;18;57;34 - 00;18;58;43
And that's beginning to happen.

00;18;58;43 - 00;19;02;18
There's a research center
at the University of Kansas, for example,

00;19;02;18 - 00;19;07;12
that has a national journal of Research
done in the United States.

00;19;07;12 - 00;19;10;15
Other countries have been doing
this far longer than we have.

00;19;11;36 - 00;19;15;10
Thirdly, we need to try to influence
our universities,

00;19;15;10 - 00;19;18;51
our schools of education,
to help them understand that

00;19;20;00 - 00;19;22;02
if they really want

00;19;22;02 - 00;19;25;02
to help their teachers
to learn how to do it,

00;19;25;56 - 00;19;29;57
this may not be the only thing they can do
because most of the programs

00;19;29;57 - 00;19;34;10
that our teachers teach are graduates
will go into, will not be Montessori.

00;19;34;32 - 00;19;37;32
But increasingly we're seeing universities
setting up

00;19;38;33 - 00;19;41;43
or affiliating with Montessori
teacher education

00;19;41;43 - 00;19;45;25
programs
to give them a holistic systems approach.

00;19;45;53 - 00;19;50;14
Because if you train teachers correctly,
there's a reasonable chance

00;19;50;14 - 00;19;54;06
they'll know how to create and sustain
these kinds of programs.

00;19;55;16 - 00;19;58;16
Another thing we have to do
is we have to reach parents

00;19;58;30 - 00;20;04;12
because, you know, our public schools
are really run at the will of the families

00;20;05;32 - 00;20;07;40
If we really want to do something,

00;20;07;40 - 00;20;11;16
we've got to reach parents
to help them to again

00;20;11;52 - 00;20;15;19
begin to understand there really are time

00;20;15;19 - 00;20;18;19
tested, globally tested,

00;20;18;45 - 00;20;20;32
every different culture.

00;20;20;32 - 00;20;25;23
I mean, every country in the world
except North Korea has Montessori schools,

00;20;26;10 - 00;20;29;07
some of the biggest schools in the world
are Montessori

00;20;29;07 - 00;20;32;27
schools just look up the Guinness
Book of World Records,

00;20;33;43 - 00;20;38;23
the city Montessori school in Lucknow,
India, has 46,000 students.

00;20;38;23 - 00;20;39;08
I think now.

00;20;39;08 - 00;20;42;07
Under one administrative control.

00;20;43;38 - 00;20;45;38
So this is something
that the rest of the world

00;20;45;38 - 00;20;48;38
is really running with very quickly.

00;20;49;00 - 00;20;52;00
And it's America that's the most resistant

00;20;52;46 - 00;20;54;52
or it's certainly
among the most resistant.

00;20;54;52 - 00;20;58;28
We’d like to see it
grow faster than it is now.

00;20;58;57 - 00;21;02;10
But the more parents understand it,
the more likely

00;21;02;10 - 00;21;05;26
we are ready to get the kind of change,
whether they call it Montessori

00;21;06;23 - 00;21;06;57
or they

00;21;06;57 - 00;21;10;49
unpack it and say, these are things
we want in our schools.

00;21;11;26 - 00;21;15;21
Again, there's
no one right way to educate a child.

00;21;16;40 - 00;21;19;47
The best schools are designed
for differences

00;21;20;21 - 00;21;23;01
and the best schools see each child

00;21;23;01 - 00;21;26;01
as a unique human being.

00;21;26;01 - 00;21;30;40
So we're not suggesting
that one thing is right for everybody.

00;21;31;00 - 00;21;33;34
But we do think that in

00;21;33;34 - 00;21;37;59
if we're going to survive as a species,
we better be teaching children

00;21;37;59 - 00;21;42;49
how to live together in some kind of peace
and mental health. Wow.

00;21;42;51 - 00;21;44;42
Thank you so much, Tim.

00;21;44;42 - 00;21;48;59
And thank you again for being here
to share all your wisdom and expertise.

00;21;49;35 - 00;21;53;06
I wonder,
do you have any additional final words

00;21;53;06 - 00;21;56;06
you'd like to share with our audience
today?

00;21;57;36 - 00;21;59;38
Well,

00;21;59;38 - 00;22;03;36
Raffi, the musician,
children's musician, had a song

00;22;04;49 - 00;22;06;24
called Tomorrow's Children.

00;22;06;24 - 00;22;08;29
You can see it on YouTube.

00;22;08;29 - 00;22;11;02
And in it he wrote it in

00;22;11;02 - 00;22;15;01
honor of Riane
and her late husband, David Lloyd.

00;22;15;38 - 00;22;18;06
And in this song,

00;22;18;06 - 00;22;21;06
Tomorrow's Children,
he talks about a world in which children

00;22;21;20 - 00;22;25;52
are sitting on the beach,
living in harmony and reading Eisler.

00;22;25;57 - 00;22;30;04
My advice would be one read Riane Eisler

00;22;30;09 - 00;22;35;02
try to understand that
this is a very practical set of ideas.

00;22;35;02 - 00;22;36;57
It's not just scholarly.

00;22;36;57 - 00;22;40;44
It can be applied in your family
it can be applied in your business.

00;22;40;48 - 00;22;43;06
It can be applied in your life.

00;22;43;06 - 00;22;45;56
It's not just Portnoy's Complaint.

00;22;45;56 - 00;22;48;20
It's not just Ain’t It Awful.

00;22;48;20 - 00;22;51;08
It's a tangible

00;22;51;08 - 00;22;54;24
attempt
to look at the true history of the world

00;22;55;18 - 00;22;59;27
as evidence that humans might be able
to find a way forward.

00;23;00;27 - 00;23;05;20
And she uses the examples of
not only research but of tangible

00;23;06;32 - 00;23;08;22
instances where people in

00;23;08;22 - 00;23;11;22
real world are making it different.

00;23;12;14 - 00;23;14;46
I think the reason why you had me on at
Riane’s

00;23;14;46 - 00;23;18;53
request
is because she found of her own experience

00;23;18;54 - 00;23;21;54
as a mother and then as a grandmother

00;23;22;45 - 00;23;25;47
that of all the schools in the world
and Montessori schools

00;23;26;06 - 00;23;30;43
seem to be incredibly
well in harmony with her ideas.

00;23;30;43 - 00;23;33;59
And we agree, she explains Montessori,

00;23;34;41 - 00;23;37;41
in my opinion, as well as,
if not better than we do.

00;23;38;11 - 00;23;41;38
So in last, I would say to anyone
who's listening, who's interested,

00;23;42;18 - 00;23;45;32
not only go see the movie
Inside Montessori,

00;23;45;32 - 00;23;48;32
you can stream it on your computer,

00;23;48;35 - 00;23;51;19
find a good Montessori school

00;23;51;19 - 00;23;55;09
and see if they can arrange a time for you
to come and sit

00;23;55;16 - 00;23;58;12
quietly, observe, and just see if you like

00;23;58;12 - 00;24;02;55
what you see, and as I said if you like
what you see, and you want to learn more.

00;24;04;27 - 00;24;05;42
I'm sure that the local

00;24;05;42 - 00;24;09;31
school would help you
or go to the Montessori Foundation.

00;24;09;31 - 00;24;14;32
Our website is www.montessori.org

00;24;14;36 - 00;24;17;49
and we have a real telephone number
and we're here to help.

00;24;19;06 - 00;24;20;23
Wonderful.

00;24;20;23 - 00;24;21;43
Thank you so much.

00;24;21;43 - 00;24;24;26
Before we end the episode,

00;24;24;26 - 00;24;27;55
I want to make sure that our listeners
know that all of the resources

00;24;27;55 - 00;24;31;45
that Tim has shared
and links and documentaries

00;24;31;45 - 00;24;36;56
that he's mentioned will be provided
in the show notes for today's episode.

00;24;37;14 - 00;24;40;41
And with that, I want to thank you
again, Tim, for joining us.

00;24;42;11 - 00;24;43;23
My pleasure.