Partnership in the Media with Marty Lewis Hunstiger and Liz Weinfurter

In Partnership in the Media, Cherri Jacobs Pruitt interviews Marty Lewis-Hunstiger and Liz Weinfurter from the University of Minnesota and the Interdisciplinary Journal of Partnership Studies (IJPS), a groundbreaking partnership-based  alternative to traditional academic publishing models that are steeped in the domination ethos. You will learn how the IJPS is a valuable resource for delving into Riane Eisler's cultural transformation and how the journal has played a pivotal role in paving the way for other open-access journals and textbooks. The discussion includes critical issues that librarians and editors face when trying to ensure diverse voices and topics are published and easily accessible, and tools for discerning whether an article is partnership or domination-based.

Interdisciplinary Journal of Partnership Studies

Creative Nursing Journal

The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future, Riane Eisler

The Power of Partnership: Seven Relationships that will Change Your Life, Riane Eisler

Center for Partnership Systems

center@partnershipway.org

Resilience, Rising Appalachia

Chapters

• 0:20 Building Partnership in Media
• 13:56 The Power of Partnership

Transcript

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Welcome
to the Power of Partnership podcast.

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I’m Riane Eisler, President of the Center
for Partnerships Systems.

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This podcast brings you
the voices from the partnership movement,

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people using partnership

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practices
to build a world that values caring

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nature and shared prosperity.

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The Power of Partnership podcast

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is hosted by Cherri Jacobs Pruitt,

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a Health Policy and Partnerships scholar.

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Today, Cherri interviews
Marty Lewis-Hunstiger

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and Liz Weinfurter on how

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the media can help us build a world
based on partnerships.

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Marty is developmental and copy
editor and editorial board member

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of the Interdisciplinary
Journal of Partnerships Studies.

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She is also editor of the Creative

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Nursing Journal and an affiliate faculty

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member of the University
of Minnesota School of Nursing.

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Liz Weinfurter is the liaison

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librarian in education
and research services

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and in the Health Sciences
Library at the University of Minnesota

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and Production Editor
and an editorial board member

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of the Interdisciplinary
Journal of Partnerships Studies.

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And now on to today's

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POP podcast episode.

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Welcome, Liz and Marty.

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I am so excited for our conversation today
about partnership in the media.

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You know, I think that media

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is really something that many of us
completely take for granted

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in terms of how pervasive it really is
in all aspects of our life.

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And I don't think that often

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we think about where patterns
of domination show up in the media

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or where opportunities for partnership
may show up.

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Marty, can you kick us off by shedding
some light on this?

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Well, thanks, My area of expertise
is in scholarly publishing,

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which is like a subset of the media.

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And so I have some examples
that we'll talk about

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of how domination is demonstrated there
in scholarly publishing.

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I just gave a presentation recently
at the International Academy

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of Nursing Editors.

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It's our nursing
editing professional organization.

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My co-presenter was Stephanie Gingrich,
who is a member of the faculty

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of the University
of Minnesota School of Nursing

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and is also on our editorial board
of our journal.

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We published an article in the I
J P S a year ago in the fall

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from Cuba, and it was about

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gender
stereotype and gender acculturation,

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how children are acculturated into gender
very early through schools, family

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and the media, gender issues
in Cuba are being discussed.

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Some are saying that machismo is actually
a public health

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issue because of its relationship
to family violence.

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So we committed
to publishing this article,

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which was originally submitted in Spanish.

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We published it in both languages,
equally peer reviewed equally

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copy, edited rigorously in both languages.

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And we can do that
because we have the resources for it.

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Many journals don't have those resources.

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But one of the reasons Stephanie was
so passionate about is that she was

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born and was a small child in Panama,

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and her mother's family is health care

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professionals
who published scholarly medical

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literature
when she came to the United States,

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started school, started grad school.

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Her first course in statistics
in literature, the professor

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said, Just ignore all of the sources
that are not in English.

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And she said,

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That means all the things
that my uncle and my aunt and my you know,

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this person is saying they are worthless
and they are not, they are not worthless.

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But one of the details in producing
the article is the fact

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that English we have
our pronouns are a gender.

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That's why we ask people.

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That's why I have pronouns on the zoom.

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Our pronouns are gendered
and certain words that describe our roles

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or jobs are gendered,
like firemen, policemen,

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you know, postman and stuff like that.

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But mostly English is not gendered,
which is probably a good thing in Spanish

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of all the different versions is Spanish
is a highly gendered language,

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not only the pronouns,
but every noun has gender.

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And so when we were translating back
and forth between English and Spanish,

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the more

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feminists among us for
the English version wanted to.

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Whenever we said girls and boys
or boys and girls, they wanted

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to always list girls first.

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And in Spanish culture

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you would always list boys first.

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So the question is,
are we going to put our feminist feminism

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forward and say, no, We're going to say
girls and boys every time in both English

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and the Spanish versions or are we going
to acquiesce to the Spanish culture

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and put boys and girls
every time in both languages?

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As it turned out,
just because the way the article came

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together, sometimes it's one
and sometimes it's the other.

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And we didn't intentionally
do it that way.

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Now, sometimes people do that
and you can tell you can spot it

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right away when people are trying
to manipulate it to be equal. But

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what we didn't do

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was say, no,
we're not going to have boys first

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because there may be
many people of goodwill who are of Spanish

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speaking heritage
who are so used to having

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the boys come first.

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And if we could change that in the process
of wanting to get this larger message

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out and alienate them

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or make them feel unwelcome,
we haven't achieved anything.

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We are better off having them
read this article in a way that they feel

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comfortable reading and be more open
to considering what else we have to say.

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So that's a real specific example about
the copyediting process of this article.

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But we as editors deal with this question
all the time.

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How far should and can we go in advocacy,

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in our language in our word choices
and the ideas we present?

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How far can we go and still

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include the people
that we really want to hear us?

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Liz How about you.

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Thanks again for inviting me.

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This is really wonderful
to be involved with.

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So like Marty,

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my sort of sub niche

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is within academic scholarly publishing,
so specifically within health sciences.

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So as part of the university librarians
at the University of Minnesota,

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we have made an institutional commitment
to helping

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to foster open access publishing, which is
something that we'll talk about later.

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But I think it's really interesting

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being in the Academy and just seeing the

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inherent structural domination, even in a,

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you know, an educational institution
that is trying to push these boundaries.

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So I think in terms of the things

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that are published in scholarly journals,
there's a lot of

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just fewer voices of

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different genders
or different ways of knowing.

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But really
that's the final symptom of the problem.

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And what the reason for
this is the historical structures

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of academic
just the domination involved in a system

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that certain people were allowed into it

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and certain criteria need to be met.

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And so that is something that really is
reflected

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in the historical minimizing of voices

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that were not the traditional white molds.

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And, you know, a lot of work is being done
to sort of deconstruct that.

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But it's really interesting for me
to see that as a librarian

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and kind of in the middle of libraries
in the center

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of this and to think about

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how are

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we making
sure that other voices are heard?

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And that's something with partnership
that when you're really doing

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the work is hard work
and meeting that cultural humility

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when you're dealing with other cultures
and figuring out like what

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is the balance between what we're creating

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as a scholarly publisher
and what we want to...

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The standards we want to have or the way
we want to go through and what happens

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when that is directly conflicting
with a culture that we're partnering with.

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And so I think that’s where

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the ability to really examine

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our hidden biases is really important
And I think that that's really where

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the transformation happens is
when we are willing

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to challenge our paradigms
and look at it and say, yeah, you know,

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we are kind of operating
with the domination paradigm

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that kind of slipped in insidiously
and making changes where we can.

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So Liz,
as a librarian at a academic level,

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do you experience some of the same
challenges that librarians at local school

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district levels are currently
and increasingly experiencing?

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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So I think it's kind of
let me pull it apart into two pieces.

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So I think that the underlying
systemic problem of

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that, again, it's a system,
it's like structural racism.

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It's built into the way
that our world has existed.

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And so

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the long term problem,

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in terms of being able to access
and even being aware of it,

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confronting our own internal invisible
biases about certain types of material.

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So academic libraries

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faces it
as much as any other type of library

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in terms of the means to really look
at the way we collect things

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and think about, you know, what,
can we get to illustrate

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a larger array of voices
and how are those the materials available?

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But I think that the thing that has
always been a problem but is especially

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scary now is the

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external pressures to minimize voices

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or to not provide materials
on sorts of things.

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And at our particular university,
we're at the University of Minnesota

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and are lucky that right now
our climate in Minnesota is not like

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it is in other states at this time.

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North Dakota right next to us.

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And a completely different story
in terms of pressures on

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K-12 libraries that are expanding out
to potentially be affecting,

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you know, academic universities,
research universities,

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which feels almost unthinkable
but is happening

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look at higher education in Florida,
all educational in Florida.

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So I think that we're all dealing with
the sort of invisible structural pieces.

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And I think that's one of
the more insidious things because without

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work as organizations,

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as institutions and personally, you know,

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you realize you have these things, it's
almost easier

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to sort of unite against external forces.

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Marty, you want to go ahead and jump in.

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I want to point out that at this meeting
where Stephanie and I presented

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this paper, it is a professional,
our international professional nursing

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editing organization
and an editor from Texas

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let us know that as of
about three weeks ago,

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because of a law
that was passed by the Texas legislature,

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all of us who have published in Texas,
which is one of the places

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my journal goes, could be arrested
and imprisoned

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for publishing the kinds of things
that we have been publishing

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all along, specifically

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equitable health for transgender
people and critical race theory,

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which is very sobering.

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So let's talk a bit more in detail
about the Interdisciplinary

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Journal of Partnership Studies.

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So the Journal is an open access

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journal whose mission is to share
scholarship and create connections

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for cultural transformation, to build
a world in which all relationships,

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institutions, policies and organizations
are based on principles of partnership.

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Liz, Can you share a bit
about how the Journal got started

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with our listeners
and what an open access journal even is?

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So I J P S’s story started,

00;14;07;34 - 00;14;11;28
you know, 11 or 12 years ago,
So Teddie Potter,

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who was one of our founding members,
came to me

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in my role
as the librarian liaison to the School

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of Nursing at the University of Minnesota
with an idea.

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She said that there isn't a place
that exists right now for the scholarship

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related to partnership
and to Riane Eisler’s theories.

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And so I think what we need to do
is create a place for that.

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And we were aware that in terms

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of wanting to give this new field
the legitimacy that it deserved in order

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to advance our ultimate goals of

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transforming things, we needed to

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be thoughtful about

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the way that we disseminated
the information with an eye toward

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how do people perceive authority
or perceive something being high quality.

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So that's usually the answer to that

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in academic world, is a scholarly journal.

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So I J P S really pushed

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the university libraries to commit

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to forming and hosting
and supporting an institutional publishing

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platform open access publishing platform
so that people affiliated

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with the University of Minnesota
can create the journals here

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and we are making the commitment to host it
and again, to give it that sort of

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mark of traditional authority,
which is okay.

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This is coming from a research university.

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It's coming from to the libraries.

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Those are typically flags that something
has to have quality, so really being able

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to leverage our privilege
with that to advance something.

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And so what that did by the library’s
providing that sort of in kind support

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was take out the need for authors for us

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to need to get authors to pay a charge
in order to make this open access.

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So that's really where it was born.

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And so that's what's called
gold open access, where you are able to

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there's no charge to publish,
there's no charge to read it.

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And yeah, we were the first journal
and now there's many journals

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and open textbooks and different types
of things on this platform.

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But I J P S really was the one that kind
of pushed it forward and started it all,

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which is pretty cool, it’s

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that one little flap of the butterfly’s
wing that we can do.

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You are listening
to the Power of Partnership podcast.

00;16;46;38 - 00;16;50;03
If you would like us
to share your partnership story

00;16;50;08 - 00;16;54;40
or if you would like to become
a proud sponsor of the POP podcast,

00;16;54;45 - 00;17;00;17
please contact us at center@partnershipway.org

00;17;00;22 - 00;17;03;52
And now back to today's episode.

00;17;03;59 - 00;17;09;19
Can you give us a taste of what
listeners can find when they open

00;17;09;19 - 00;17;12;46
the link to the Interdisciplinary
Journal of Partnership Studies?

00;17;12;51 - 00;17;15;51
I think another really unique thing
about our journal,

00;17;15;59 - 00;17;20;05
when we were kind of envisioning
what it was going to be,

00;17;20;09 - 00;17;26;09
is that we really did
want to provide different ways of knowing.

00;17;26;12 - 00;17;29;16
So our, journal,
when you click on the link, it's

00;17;29;16 - 00;17;34;44
all online
and the first thing you notice is,

00;17;34;49 - 00;17;35;39
artwork.

00;17;35;39 - 00;17;40;16
So that was something that we committed to
is that in every issue

00;17;40;16 - 00;17;44;33
we have cover art that is linked

00;17;44;33 - 00;17;48;13
to the principles of partnership
and artist statement is included.

00;17;48;18 - 00;17;51;10
And we've had different things
from more kind of traditional

00;17;51;10 - 00;17;53;11
like paintings or drawings.

00;17;53;11 - 00;17;56;34
We've had videos,
you know, different types

00;17;56;34 - 00;17;59;34
of media, different types
of artistic expression.

00;17;59;41 - 00;18;01;15
And that's really what you see at first.

00;18;01;15 - 00;18;03;23
And that was really important to us
to keep that connection

00;18;03;23 - 00;18;07;03
to things
beyond your more dry scholarly stuff.

00;18;07;07 - 00;18;09;53
But then we do
have these multiple sections,

00;18;09;53 - 00;18;13;20
so we have our kind of traditional,
like academic,

00;18;13;25 - 00;18;17;58
scholarly type articles that we again
very carefully made sure aligned

00;18;17;58 - 00;18;21;50
with the accepted norms around
traditional scholarship so that we could

00;18;21;50 - 00;18;25;41
make sure we were able to connect
to people who are still in that world and

00;18;25;41 - 00;18;28;27
so need that sort of

00;18;28;31 - 00;18;29;59
those sort of attributes.

00;18;29;59 - 00;18;34;51
But we also have a section of articles
that we call Community Voices.

00;18;34;56 - 00;18;38;31
And the idea was
that was to be able to provide

00;18;38;36 - 00;18;41;25
access
to people outside of academic environment.

00;18;41;25 - 00;18;45;19
So our partners, communities that are

00;18;45;24 - 00;18;48;15
seeing these sort of partnership
things in action

00;18;48;15 - 00;18;51;14
and a space
for them to be able to write about this.

00;18;51;29 - 00;18;53;36
And so we have that.

00;18;53;36 - 00;18;57;59
We also will have a conversation
with somebody.

00;18;57;59 - 00;19;03;04
So Riane will usually find, somebody
that is

00;19;03;09 - 00;19;06;08
a person that could talk about this,
and we have sort of an interview format

00;19;06;08 - 00;19;06;48
for that.

00;19;06;48 - 00;19;08;29
We have media reviews.

00;19;08;29 - 00;19;17;04
So unlike most scholarly journals,
it is a mix of different types of

00;19;17;08 - 00;19;20;24
information that are accessible
to different types of authors.

00;19;20;35 - 00;19;25;34
And that right there is already
a small thing that allows us to

00;19;25;34 - 00;19;29;04
sort of break the mold of the very kind of

00;19;29;04 - 00;19;33;50
gatekeeping scholarly construct.

00;19;33;55 - 00;19;34;32
So I'm going to

00;19;34;32 - 00;19;37;39
start this next question with you, Marty.

00;19;37;39 - 00;19;41;09
But Liz, I'd love to hear
if you have anything you'd like to add.

00;19;41;13 - 00;19;45;04
What do people who care about the media
we consume,

00;19;45;04 - 00;19;49;30
including people who are involved
in producing it, need to know

00;19;49;35 - 00;19;54;03
about the domination-partnership
continuum.

00;19;54;03 - 00;19;58;33
When it comes to media producing
and consuming media

00;19;58;38 - 00;20;03;43
domination is kind of easier to understand
and envision than partnership

00;20;03;43 - 00;20;09;31
is because we're kind of bathed
in this domination system right now

00;20;09;36 - 00;20;12;36
with these
still small voices of partnership.

00;20;12;40 - 00;20;16;15
So to look for domination,
with every message,

00;20;16;19 - 00;20;22;03
what you need to do is ask
what is the basis for this statement,

00;20;22;08 - 00;20;26;42
the way I manage that is
I say, and you're basing that on

00;20;26;47 - 00;20;29;47
and their answer tells me a lot
about how much

00;20;29;47 - 00;20;34;14
more energy to expand on
even talking to this person?

00;20;34;18 - 00;20;39;10
Does it purport to be based on science,
but is it really based on junk science?

00;20;39;15 - 00;20;41;08
Is it based on surveys and opinions?

00;20;41;08 - 00;20;43;39
If you don't already know this,
you can get any answer

00;20;43;39 - 00;20;47;17
you want out of a survey
depending on the questions that you ask.

00;20;47;17 - 00;20;52;10
So survey
results are not a really good basis

00;20;52;10 - 00;20;55;49
for any kind of information for all of me.

00;20;55;49 - 00;20;58;42
Then the next question you should ask
is what voices are missing?

00;20;58;42 - 00;21;01;06
Who are we not even hearing from at all?

00;21;01;06 - 00;21;03;18
This is what we heard and that's fine.

00;21;03;18 - 00;21;04;51
But who are we not hearing from?

00;21;04;51 - 00;21;07;53
What voices are absent

00;21;07;58 - 00;21;08;45
as far as the

00;21;08;45 - 00;21;13;07
barriers to publication
being a part of a domination scenario.

00;21;13;07 - 00;21;14;06
not all.

00;21;14;06 - 00;21;18;53
articles that get rejected are rejected
because of domination.

00;21;18;58 - 00;21;22;59
Some things that are, I mentioned already
the hegemony of the English language

00;21;23;13 - 00;21;26;13
and the exclusion of some voices

00;21;26;24 - 00;21;28;26
and the marginalization of other voices.

00;21;28;26 - 00;21;30;08
But there are some things that are not.

00;21;30;08 - 00;21;35;00
If we get an article that has flat out
methodological flaws and I’m not talking

00;21;35;00 - 00;21;38;26
about arithmetic errors that we can fix,
I'm talking about, you know,

00;21;38;41 - 00;21;42;10
they said this is one kind of study,
but it's really not at all.

00;21;42;15 - 00;21;44;12
They misuse theories.

00;21;44;12 - 00;21;47;18
And also there's just plain old subpar
writing

00;21;47;18 - 00;21;50;17
that doesn't meet standards for

00;21;50;28 - 00;21;52;47
accuracy, clarity or completeness.

00;21;52;47 - 00;21;54;22
Those are my standards.

00;21;54;22 - 00;21;57;40
But the good news is being supported
and working with authors

00;21;57;40 - 00;22;00;44
to bring their content up to a place
that does meet the standards.

00;22;00;56 - 00;22;05;17
There Is that support with I
J P S as I said, for me

00;22;05;17 - 00;22;07;50
I do that all gratis right now.

00;22;07;55 - 00;22;09;22
In the future, I hope there will be

00;22;09;22 - 00;22;13;01
some kind of support for other people
who can do that because it can be done.

00;22;13;01 - 00;22;13;57
It can be done.

00;22;13;57 - 00;22;17;05
And also encouraging
publishing in multiple languages,

00;22;17;05 - 00;22;20;05
as I described.

00;22;20;07 - 00;22;22;40
Liz, any thoughts
that you'd like to share in terms of

00;22;22;40 - 00;22;27;22
what do people who are consuming
or producing the media need to know

00;22;27;22 - 00;22;32;41
about the domination
partnership, social scale, social lens?

00;22;32;46 - 00;22;36;47
Marty really summed it up very well and
just a few things that I can add to it.

00;22;36;58 - 00;22;41;34
So I think that

00;22;41;39 - 00;22;45;54
for those of us who are really involved
and deeply into the work

00;22;45;56 - 00;22;50;33
of looking at our structural biases,

00;22;50;38 - 00;22;54;43
it can become very paralyzing
and you can end up in a loop.

00;22;54;48 - 00;22;58;56
But in the end, what we need to do is see
how can we sort of advance it forward.

00;22;58;56 - 00;23;05;20
So having I think a good parallel
is the idea of evidence based practice.

00;23;05;20 - 00;23;08;15
And you can see how this has

00;23;08;20 - 00;23;09;58
really spiraled

00;23;09;58 - 00;23;15;20
out of control, I would say, over the past
five years in terms of,

00;23;15;20 - 00;23;18;15
you know people being able
to find anything

00;23;18;15 - 00;23;20;44
and say, okay, well this is the study
and this is my evidence.

00;23;20;44 - 00;23;25;04
I did my own research
and everybody is public health expert

00;23;25;04 - 00;23;28;05
and everyone is an expert
and did their own research by doing internet

00;23;28;05 - 00;23;31;27
searches to find things that

00;23;31;31 - 00;23;33;37
met what they wanted to say.

00;23;33;37 - 00;23;37;35
And so one of the things
about that, open access

00;23;37;35 - 00;23;41;27
to information is great as an idea
that's wonderful.

00;23;41;32 - 00;23;45;07
And, you know, needing to have
this sort of third thing that we haven't

00;23;45;11 - 00;23;49;03
about too much but librarians
think a lot about is that education,

00;23;49;03 - 00;23;52;39
about critical appraisal
and the ability to look at something

00;23;52;53 - 00;23;55;39
and to think about those things
that Marty was saying like to go

00;23;55;39 - 00;23;59;33
through the list of,
okay, this as a thing is neutral.

00;23;59;36 - 00;24;01;07
Like what are the strengths of it?

00;24;01;07 - 00;24;02;17
What are the weaknesses?

00;24;02;17 - 00;24;04;30
Based on what I want to do with it.

00;24;04;30 - 00;24;10;04
Am I aware of the domination factors
that might be affecting it.

00;24;10;15 - 00;24;13;23
How does that affect
what I want to do with it.

00;24;13;27 - 00;24;14;02
It's hard.

00;24;14;02 - 00;24;17;43
It's really, really, really messy. And

00;24;17;48 - 00;24;20;07
our role
is try to carve out that little piece

00;24;20;07 - 00;24;23;14
of something
that we can make a little bit cleaner

00;24;23;14 - 00;24;28;18
with transparent standards
and with a real commitment and work toward

00;24;28;23 - 00;24;31;50
moving towards a principle of partnership
while still maintaining something

00;24;31;50 - 00;24;36;21
that is high quality
based on the standards that we put out.

00;24;36;31 - 00;24;37;18
Marty and Liz.

00;24;37;18 - 00;24;41;08
Thank you so much for giving us all
so much to reflect on

00;24;41;22 - 00;24;44;42
as we engage with media
throughout our lives.

00;24;44;47 - 00;24;48;46
I wonder if you both have any final words
that you would like to share

00;24;48;46 - 00;24;54;07
with our listeners today in terms
of moving forward in creating the world

00;24;54;12 - 00;24;57;44
which the Journal
and the Power of Partnership Podcast

00;24;57;44 - 00;25;02;39
envisions, where all relationships
institutions, policies

00;25;02;39 - 00;25;07;23
and organizations are truly
based on the principles of partnership.

00;25;07;28 - 00;25;09;02
For me,

00;25;09;07 - 00;25;11;29
both partnership and domination

00;25;11;29 - 00;25;15;59
find their strength in individual choices
and in personal responsibility.

00;25;16;12 - 00;25;18;12
How do we treat each other?

00;25;18;12 - 00;25;21;41
That was the basis of Riane's lifetime

00;25;21;41 - 00;25;24;40
study as a Holocaust survivor, studying

00;25;24;44 - 00;25;28;38
why would people do that to each other.

00;25;28;43 - 00;25;31;08
So for me, personal responsibility

00;25;31;08 - 00;25;34;36
is a big thing,
and I'm going to link it to this to FOMO,

00;25;34;41 - 00;25;38;13
which is a thing that I'm learning
about fear of missing out.

00;25;38;13 - 00;25;42;43
You hear about this all the time,
and I don't relate to it much myself

00;25;42;43 - 00;25;47;24
because I've got so much going on that
I never

00;25;47;29 - 00;25;49;02
feel FOMO at all.

00;25;49;02 - 00;25;52;02
But in a domination environment,

00;25;52;11 - 00;25;55;00
what people pay attention
to all these messages

00;25;55;00 - 00;25;56;09
that are coming at them,

00;25;56;09 - 00;26;00;47
they tend to pay attention to them all
equally, out of fear

00;26;00;51 - 00;26;03;35
of missing
something that either could threaten

00;26;03;35 - 00;26;07;45
them, threaten their safety,
or even their lives, or for fear

00;26;07;45 - 00;26;14;26
of being marginalized if they aren't,
you know, in with what's going on.

00;26;14;31 - 00;26;15;50
So that's what FOMO is

00;26;15;50 - 00;26;19;30
like in a in a domination environment,
but in a partnership environment.

00;26;19;35 - 00;26;23;53
What we need to not want to miss out on

00;26;23;58 - 00;26;27;33
are the opportunities that are
all around us to learn more good stuff.

00;26;27;43 - 00;26;30;54
we don't want to miss out on any chances
to marvel

00;26;30;54 - 00;26;34;18
at the amazing diversity
of people in the world,

00;26;34;22 - 00;26;37;22
and we want to give power to the voices

00;26;37;22 - 00;26;40;18
that often aren't heard.

00;26;40;18 - 00;26;42;23
Lovely. Thank you.

00;26;42;23 - 00;26;43;54
How about you Liz?

00;26;43;54 - 00;26;48;10
I think that my kind of final thoughts
on this that have been illustrated

00;26;48;10 - 00;26;51;09
by a lot of the examples

00;26;51;09 - 00;26;57;34
is that the core of what we want to do,
the vision is really

00;26;57;39 - 00;27;01;21
pure, open and partnering,
and that's just incredible.

00;27;01;21 - 00;27;05;21
And then the reality of just what we're

00;27;05;26 - 00;27;08;53
dealing with, trying to make these things
happen in a system

00;27;08;53 - 00;27;13;03
that is built for domination
where structure is meant for domination.

00;27;13;08 - 00;27;17;20
And so I think that where I always kind of
come back to is it's important

00;27;17;20 - 00;27;20;57
to be able to see the big picture
and see the vision and don't

00;27;20;57 - 00;27;25;15
let the perfect be the enemy of the good
be able to do the things that we can.

00;27;25;20 - 00;27;28;50
And so in this great big world of that

00;27;28;51 - 00;27;33;34
gets really overwhelming
and we can get really demoralized

00;27;33;34 - 00;27;36;54
in terms of just the structures
of the things that are so embedded.

00;27;37;08 - 00;27;39;18
But what can we do
with our little slice of it?

00;27;39;18 - 00;27;41;56
And so I think that

00;27;42;01 - 00;27;43;56
being able to say,

00;27;43;56 - 00;27;48;09
okay, I can present an open access journal

00;27;48;10 - 00;27;53;04
and we can make this small slice
based on the principles of partnership.

00;27;53;08 - 00;27;56;38
And also I think that really

00;27;56;42 - 00;28;01;30
being able to sit with the complexity,
that if you're doing it right,

00;28;01;43 - 00;28;05;58
that it's hard work, it's
not clean, it's not, you know, there's

00;28;05;58 - 00;28;10;52
always going to be practical things, but
still keeping your eye on doing the next

00;28;10;56 - 00;28;14;43
right thing that's from Frozen
2, which my children watch all the time.

00;28;14;43 - 00;28;20;22
So all we can do is the next right thing
and always be

00;28;20;27 - 00;28;24;12
checking ourselves
because the domination is built into us

00;28;24;12 - 00;28;28;03
and we want to be able to challenge it
where we can.

00;28;28;07 - 00;28;32;45
So do all the good
you can with what you have and

00;28;32;50 - 00;28;35;42
be committed
to the big picture of partnership

00;28;35;42 - 00;28;40;03
and not demoralized by the fact that
we can’t solve it all with a magic wand.

00;28;40;16 - 00;28;41;20
We wish we could.

00;28;41;20 - 00;28;43;24
Thank you so much again, Liz and Marty.

00;28;43;24 - 00;28;48;31
It's really been a pleasure speaking
to you about partnership in the media.

00;28;48;36 - 00;28;49;28
For our listeners.

00;28;49;28 - 00;28;51;57
Before we close,
I want to make sure you know

00;28;51;57 - 00;28;55;13
that there will be a link
to the Interdisciplinary Journal

00;28;55;13 - 00;28;59;07
of Partnership Studies in the show notes
for today's episode,

00;28;59;12 - 00;29;03;39
as well as a link to the Center
for Partnerships Systems website,

00;29;03;39 - 00;29;07;33
where you can access
additional learnings and courses

00;29;07;38 - 00;29;11;50
related to Riane Eisler’s
Cultural Transformation Theory,

00;29;12;02 - 00;29;16;30
The Domination Partnership Social Lens,
and the four cornerstones

00;29;16;30 - 00;29;20;32
of all societies of child
and family relations,

00;29;20;37 - 00;29;25;14
gender, economics
and of course, narratives and stories.

00;29;25;18 - 00;29;27;00
Thank you so much for joining us.