How Men Cry with DXTR Spits

DXTR Spits’ How Men Cry Movement takes on the challenge of dismantling male conditioning using connection and creativity. Join the conversation as we confront societal stigmas, celebrate the power for healing in expressive spaces, and explore the importance of embracing Riane Eisle's question "Does it have to be this way?” 

SHOWNOTES:
How Men Cry (howmencry.com)

DXTR Spits YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/@dxtr_spits)

Slave Name (https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=zVi_WW6dOmE)

Learned (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMJBFb_6Hyw)

Understand (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5CIILsM-og)

Center for Partnership Systems (centerforpartnership.org)

The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future, Riane Eisler (https://centerforpartnership.org/resources/books/the-chalice-and-the-blade-our-history-our-future/)

The Power of Partnership: Seven Relationships that will Change Your Life, Riane Eisler (https://centerforpartnership.org/resources/books/the-power-of-partnership/)

center@partnershipway.org

Resilience, Rising Appalachia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx17RvPMaQ8)

Chapters

• 0:20 Men's Emotional Expression and Mental Health
• 17:04 Men's Mental Health Healing and Vulnerability

Transcript

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Welcome
to the Power of Partnership podcast.

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I'm Riane Eisler President of the Center
for Partnerships Systems.

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This podcast brings you voices

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from the partnership movement,

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people using partnership practices

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to build a world that values caring

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nature and shared prosperity.

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The Power of Partnership, podcast,
is hosted by Cherri

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Jacobs Pruitt
a Health Policy and Partnership Scholar.

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today Cherri interviews DXTR Spits,

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entrepreneur, musician, spoken word

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artist and engineer whose art challenges
male conditioning

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and creatively addresses
our connection to mental health.

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And now on to the POP “POP” podcast,
showing

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how exploring How Men Cry can help

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the world collectively heal.

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Welcome, DXTR, and thank

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you so much for being a guest
on the Power of Partnership podcast.

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I have really been looking forward
to this conversation.

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So on your website,
you're described as a jack of all trades

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scientist, engineer, musician, spoken word
artist and entrepreneur.

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Can you share a bit about your journey
becoming this jack of all trades?

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How much time do you have?

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That would be my question right now.

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No, I think the best way
that I would describe it,

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I started off as a little sensitive,
stuttering kid.

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I would say, which is kind of funny
given the work that I do now.

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But I grew up with a bunch of older
sisters and kind of,

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you know,
some complicated family dynamics.

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I think that just kind of pushed
on that sensitive version of myself.

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And I think that that showed up

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in many ways in the form of writing,
like the pain or maybe the difficulty

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of what I was going through
at the time got poured into my writing.

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And that was something that I carried
along

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through my whole process
of becoming who I am.

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So that's kind of the through line.

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But what I think part of the motivation
for the jack of all trades approach,

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I think really came from feeling
like I needed to check

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all of these boxes
to have a sense of value.

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I think that's
where a lot of it started.

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And what I realize now is shielding
and trying to protect and other things.

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And not that I would take anything back,
but I feel like I look at my work

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and what I do a lot differently now.

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nice.

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So you are actually the first guest
that I've interviewed for this podcast

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who didn't already have a very in-depth
understanding

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of Riane Eisler's work and
been greatly impacted by her work.

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So can you talk a bit

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about what made you say yes,
when one of our Center for Partnership

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Systems volunteers reached out to you
and invited you to be a guest with us?

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Sure.

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I think just from looking
more into the work

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which now piques my mind and curiosity.

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I think I come most alive
when people are

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having their hearts, minds or spirits move
in some kind of way.

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And I think when I cross paths
with people that have

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similar views or missions,
even if it looks a little different

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than mine,
it kind of lights a bit of fire for me.

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So I felt that, you know, directly

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from the work that you all were doing
and presenting.

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So why not say yes, you know, love that.

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Yeah.

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And I love that you're touching on a theme
that Riane talks about.

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And so for listeners who haven't listened
to episode one of the podcast,

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she makes this point beautifully there
where there's so many of us

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around the world
doing the same kind of work

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to help create a world
that you know, values, caring nature

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and shared prosperity
as the podcast mission is.

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But we don't always call it the,
you know, partnership per se.

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So now that you've become a bit
more familiar with her work,

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are there aspects of her domination
partnership continuum

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or her other aspects of her research
or tools that you have found

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particularly useful in your thought
processes or the work that you're doing?

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Absolutely.

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I love it.

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I would say many.

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I think the biggest thing

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that definitely stuck out to me,
I think she did actually say it

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in the first podcast,
if I recall correctly, which was

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does it have to look like this?

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And I think I look at that in a pretty
broad way of the work.

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And it's a question
I think if you look at the

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if you look at the 
inverse of that question,

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which as well things are like this
and this is how they are,

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it's this very closed state of being
and we just go with this is how men are,

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this is how women are,
this is how life and business is.

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And what I really like about that
question of just does it have to look like

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this is it just opens
it allows this realm of possibility,

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you know, for how life can look,
our work can look and how we connect.

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Because I think many times
in business and life

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going about things
in the conventional way

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that may be got learned,
it's just it hasn't

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sat right at many different points.

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So opening up the mind to say, okay,
how can we do this differently?

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I think it's just a really brilliant
question.

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I think that there are enough
men and enough circumstances

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that have occurred where we know that
some of this stuff just doesn't work,

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working away the pain.

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And I mean that quite literally
the thought that I'm going to work sunup

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to sundown and the pain will resolve
it hasn't really worked.

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It hasn't worked for me.

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It hasn't worked for a lot of men that
I've spoken with who felt the same way.

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And so so maybe there is that thought,

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at least at some level, that, 
this system isn't really treating me too

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well on the day to day

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and I'm stressed and my partner stress
or I'm not showing up there

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and this is happening and that's happening

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and my health is terrible at this moment,
whatever it may be.

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So I think that that's the the alert

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is kind of more prevalent now,
I think, for many.

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And that allows us to then say asking that
question, how can we do this differently

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and then try at least
to the best of our ability to approach it.

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So So in your work, you talk about

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the need for men, particularly

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to have a safe space.

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And so can you talk a bit about

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how you came to recognizing that need
that there

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there really wasn't a safe space for men
to share their stories and concerns.

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how that made you feel
and how you use your spoken word

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and your music
to try to help create that safe space?

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Sure.

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I would say it
definitely came about by accident.

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Like most things I feel
like in my life sometimes have.

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So I began a process of therapy
now over four years ago.

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And in that process,
I did what I did through that

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throughline of life, which was I started
writing out a lot of what was going on.

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You know, as I'm beginning
and going through this process of

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trying to heal

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some of these wounds,
and what came from that.

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I started to read some of those pieces,
even just to a few close friends

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or loved ones, in ways of venting,
if you will.

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And then I was pushed by another
really great friend of mine to say

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you need to go.

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You need to go say this
basically to the world.

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And I think the more that I started
to perform just some of the poems,

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you know, even before a formal
thought or movement was formed,

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I could just see how much this resonated
with people and then saw how much

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these stories had this throughline
of just this experience of manhood

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and maleness.

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And then that sparked me to go
and look for other

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maybe places or spaces
that we're talking in some other ways.

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And it's not that they don't exist at all.

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There are there are some spaces,
but they're few and far between

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sometimes.

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And then I think

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depending on where you're looking,
there's almost too much salesliness

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to them where they're still woven
and the same frameworks

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that we have of like come learn
how to be super stoic in your life

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and then, you know, and it's like, fine,
you can be stoic

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if you want to too,
but I'll just say what I was looking for.

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I think even within myself is a space
to actually just be

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and a space to be held and a space
to not have to show up

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with any kind of warrior armor
or anything like that.

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So

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So yeah, so it was a bit of a journey

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to get there, but happy
to be creating those spaces now.

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Nice. Beautiful.

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So can you speak about those spaces and

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How Men Cry movement that you've started?

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Yeah.

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So How Men Cry and I think something

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important about the name is very

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deliberate.

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We're not really just talking
about physical tears.

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We're talking about all the different ways
that you can cry out

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from these pain points and traumas
and things that aren't really healed.

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So that might present as depression
issues with, you know, substances issues

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with in

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your relationship, things like self-harm,
all types of things that I write about.

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And I've also gone through directly

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and So I look at

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How Men Cry as being a bridge

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for beginning a journey of healing.

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There is a

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point of, hey, something's off

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internally,
or maybe I'm feeling a little low

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quite often,
or maybe I'm having these difficulties

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in relationship or low mood,
whatever it may be.

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So there's that point of recognizing that,
and then there's a point of going

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to actually seek help
for some of those things.

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Maybe that looks like therapy for people.

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Maybe that looks like being more
vulnerable within a relationship.

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But what I've come to find
from working with men

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and people in general
is that that can be a really wide space.

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The space between, hey,
I have some discomfort and pain

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and then taking the actual step
to make a phone call, for instance,

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to speak to a therapist
or to make a request to that partner.

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So I look at what we do with

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with our work as a means to be a bridge,
essentially from that point of,

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hey, something is going on here
and how to actually make that step

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now we hold space in two primary ways.

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One is through giving speaking sessions
where I kind of weave

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in a combination of spoken word meditation

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and mindfulness type of tactics
along with journaling and reflections.

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And then we also use
some of those same tactics within men's

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within men's retreats
that we're looking to extend

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from going to just day longs
to more multi days to week ones to also

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travel ones.

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That's where the pathway to that is going
And what's been really great,

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especially for a lot of the men
that I'm working on,

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connecting more around
some of this work is that

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there are men doing really similar work,
and I haven’t figured out.

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All of the ways to best partner.

00;13;28;19 - 00;13;31;00
That's
still kind of cooking right now.

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But some of the work that you are doing
is definitely motivating me to say,

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okay, how can we connect these things
that we're all doing together?

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We have a similar mission,

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even if it's connecting
in a simple enough way to just say, Hey,

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let's be a support system for one another
at times, or Hey, let's co-lead a retreat

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instead of me taking all that weight on
or all those tasks

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on so just approaching it in that way,
is starting to make the path

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a little more clear.

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But it is
it is tricky to say the least, when

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the dominant narrative is go crush
the competition.

00;14;06;19 - 00;14;07;29
You've got to do the thing.

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And it's also pretty fundamentally for me,

00;14;10;38 - 00;14;15;57
I'm not a huge fan of consumption
for the sake of, you know, consumption.

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I saw this.

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It's just it

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was just a slight video,
but it stuck with me for a few days

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and no shame or shade,
if this is what you want to do

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and this is how you live
your life, perfect.

00;14;29;00 - 00;14;30;12
Do your thing.

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But there is a gentleman who is saying,
Yeah,

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I want to
I want to acquire 10,000 businesses.

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And I'm like, That's a great goal.

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It's a lofty goal.

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And then I was just
kind of like, for what?

00;14;41;59 - 00;14;44;28
What are you going to do with 10,000 businesses?

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And maybe and maybe he wants to shift
an industry, maybe he won't.

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But just this idea of like,
I got to just grab all the stuff

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and just do all the things
I need this control.

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And this is just that's
how it read, you know, to me, when I

00;14;58;24 - 00;14;59;45
when I kind of heard that.

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And that just seems wild. And so

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I think it's what we need to back
a little bit off of to

00;15;05;45 - 00;15;10;06
see our to see the value within ourselves
a little better.

00;15;10;11 - 00;15;14;36
nice and so the YouTubes you know

00;15;14;41 - 00;15;18;23
and for our listeners I will say
that DXTR Spits has an amazing

00;15;18;23 - 00;15;24;41
YouTube channel that chronicles
several journeys around the world.

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And so I'll include the link

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to that YouTube channel in the podcast
show notes for today's episode.

00;15;32;51 - 00;15;35;42
But can you speak about more about travel

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and how that fits in to the movement?

00;15;39;57 - 00;15;40;30
Sure.

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So one of the things that I'll do

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when I travel if possible is to perform
and go and speak.

00;15;46;08 - 00;15;49;15
work with companies, performing shows,
whatever

00;15;49;15 - 00;15;52;15
opportunity that arise.

00;15;52;18 - 00;15;54;22
But I think the other thing about it

00;15;54;22 - 00;15;58;23
is it keeps me in a mode of being grounded

00;15;58;34 - 00;16;02;20
and in a way being in motion,
but also being grounded

00;16;02;22 - 00;16;07;30
and realizing the connection
of a lot of the stories of men,

00;16;07;37 - 00;16;09;51
not just where I am right now.

00;16;09;51 - 00;16;12;51
This really is,
I think, a global conversation

00;16;12;52 - 00;16;14;12
and it's a global conversation.

00;16;14;12 - 00;16;19;51
I think a lot more men are ready for than
what we I'm just saying.

00;16;19;51 - 00;16;22;16
Societal, we may think

00;16;22;20 - 00;16;23;54
they are.

00;16;23;54 - 00;16;26;21
And the ultimate goal here for
the retreats is

00;16;26;21 - 00;16;31;31
I want to be able to do them
in travel locations essentially

00;16;31;31 - 00;16;35;16
so that we can bring guys out of
maybe some of their day to day

00;16;35;21 - 00;16;40;52
to be able to really sink into themselves
and the moment and meditate

00;16;40;52 - 00;16;45;50
together, find some brotherhood community,
all of those things so

00;16;46;06 - 00;16;50;27
You are listening
to the Power of Partnership podcast.

00;16;50;32 - 00;16;53;57
If you would like us
to share your partnership story

00;16;54;02 - 00;16;58;34
or if you would like to become
a proud sponsor of the POP podcast,

00;16;58;39 - 00;17;04;11
please contact us at center@partnershipway.org

00;17;04;16 - 00;17;07;33
And now back to today's episode.

00;17;08;06 - 00;17;12;43
And when you're thinking about
that men's mental health healing,

00;17;12;43 - 00;17;16;08
can you speak a little bit about the role

00;17;16;08 - 00;17;20;31
that vulnerability plays in that?

00;17;20;36 - 00;17;23;05
Yeah, or lack of access to vulnerability really.

00;17;23;05 - 00;17;23;59
Really?

00;17;23;59 - 00;17;24;29
Yeah.

00;17;24;29 - 00;17;27;35
It's such a crucial piece.

00;17;27;35 - 00;17;31;00
And I think what is tricky for

00;17;31;05 - 00;17;35;16
to circle back to,
even in my own personal story

00;17;35;20 - 00;17;39;15
sensitivity
that I was labeled a sensitive kid

00;17;39;20 - 00;17;44;45
and I remember that being a reason
or point to be shot down sometimes

00;17;44;45 - 00;17;49;11
even within my direct family unit,
that was the thing to be bullied for.

00;17;49;17 - 00;17;52;19
That was a thing to be teased
for, to be called names,

00;17;52;19 - 00;17;57;08
to have all types of labels
put on you for, you know, sensitivity,

00;17;57;10 - 00;18;01;01
which I would say is kind of synonymous
to being vulnerable.

00;18;01;05 - 00;18;04;49
And what I think

00;18;04;54 - 00;18;08;24
is so unfortunate
for that messaging for so many men

00;18;08;24 - 00;18;12;06
is that we would trick ourselves
into the idea of,

00;18;12;11 - 00;18;15;05
I don't know have this feeling
or these experiences

00;18;15;05 - 00;18;18;22
or I'm so stoic
that this doesn't impact me.

00;18;18;23 - 00;18;22;19
And when you really dig deep enough,
it's like, it's not that this stuff doesn’t

00;18;22;31 - 00;18;23;13
impact you.

00;18;23;13 - 00;18;26;16
You may have defense mechanisms
and other things that allow you

00;18;26;16 - 00;18;27;46
and maybe you do have a healthy way

00;18;27;46 - 00;18;31;37
of processing some of these feelings
and thoughts and emotions.

00;18;31;41 - 00;18;35;57
But if we can't really deeply
look at the vulnerable sides of ourselves.

00;18;35;59 - 00;18;40;12
To me, I just I feel like you're
missing out on such a large piece

00;18;40;12 - 00;18;44;15
of the human experience

00;18;44;15 - 00;18;48;42
really, you know, and that's
what I think is kind of sad because

00;18;48;46 - 00;18;52;23
tapping into some of those things
may allow us to show up better,

00;18;52;24 - 00;18;53;34
you know, with our partners.

00;18;53;34 - 00;18;55;42
It may allow us to show up
better with ourselves

00;18;55;42 - 00;18;59;00
it may allow us to say, hey,
that actually hurt.

00;18;59;05 - 00;19;02;18
And from this hurting,
I have this kind of need from it.

00;19;02;18 - 00;19;05;07
And maybe this is how we can
talk about it.

00;19;05;07 - 00;19;06;58
You know? So,

00;19;07;03 - 00;19;08;29
part of what we are doing.

00;19;08;29 - 00;19;11;11
It's changing narratives
around men's mental health.

00;19;11;11 - 00;19;16;20
But the other thing that we are doing
is destigmatizing conversations

00;19;16;20 - 00;19;20;03
around mental health in general
because men's

00;19;20;08 - 00;19;23;52
men's mental health healing is

00;19;23;57 - 00;19;26;23
basically worldly healing.

00;19;26;23 - 00;19;30;29
You know, there
there is no there's no separation to me.

00;19;30;34 - 00;19;34;12
and your spoken word piece learned.

00;19;34;17 - 00;19;37;35
It just really captures
that essence beautifully.

00;19;37;35 - 00;19;43;23
I wonder if you can share just
a bit of that piece with our listeners.

00;19;43;27 - 00;19;47;07
It says, you know, she left before

00;19;47;07 - 00;19;50;47
I had a chance to realize she left before
I had a chance to heal.

00;19;50;52 - 00;19;54;29
She left before I had a chance to tell her
that I'm sorry that I learned it

00;19;54;29 - 00;19;58;06
from my father, from my brothers
and friends, the TV, the music

00;19;58;10 - 00;20;01;40
from everywhere that I thought
I was supposed to learn from

00;20;01;44 - 00;20;05;05
and I think

00;20;05;09 - 00;20;08;16
from looking at that piece
and even looking

00;20;08;16 - 00;20;13;17
at my personal experience,
it takes a while

00;20;13;22 - 00;20;16;54
to evaluate in a safe

00;20;16;54 - 00;20;21;08
and healthy way what a lot of these

00;20;21;13 - 00;20;24;13
different inputs that we've had on

00;20;24;13 - 00;20;27;45
had on us from our lifetime like it
we

00;20;27;45 - 00;20;30;29
It's a really delicate process.

00;20;30;29 - 00;20;32;49
And unfortunately, I didn't even learn

00;20;32;49 - 00;20;36;52
how to start to do that
until I was 30 years old.

00;20;36;57 - 00;20;41;20
And that for me may could be very early

00;20;41;25 - 00;20;45;00
in comparison
to some other men in the world.

00;20;45;05 - 00;20;47;46
There are, you know, several
guys that I know who do men's work

00;20;47;46 - 00;20;52;32
who are a little further up and they’re like, oh man, 
if I just had that input.

00;20;52;32 - 00;20;55;11
But for me, I'm
looking at that and thinking,

00;20;55;11 - 00;20;58;59
so I just learned how to talk
about my feelings and say what hurt me.

00;20;58;59 - 00;21;04;18
Maybe by 30 years old,
So how can I have been,

00;21;04;18 - 00;21;08;38
and I wasn't truly but,
how could I have been in a successful

00;21;08;38 - 00;21;12;02
relationship prior to that point,
you know,

00;21;12;02 - 00;21;16;03
without even having that what I would
consider now a basic ability.

00;21;16;08 - 00;21;19;04
But where I have to give guys
a lot of grace as well

00;21;19;04 - 00;21;22;55
too, is it's kind of like
you don't know what you don't know

00;21;23;00 - 00;21;28;02
kind of scenario
where if it's so much layers

00;21;28;02 - 00;21;32;15
of conditioning on us, you know,
how can we really get there?

00;21;32;15 - 00;21;36;27
And that's why I think the approach
for men has to be really compassionate.

00;21;36;27 - 00;21;40;59
It has to be gentle
and it has to have a lot of space

00;21;41;04 - 00;21;43;17
so that some of those layers can kind of

00;21;43;17 - 00;21;46;43
unravel a little better. Beautiful.

00;21;46;48 - 00;21;52;29
So, DXTR, in preparing for my interview
with you, one of my favorite

00;21;52;29 - 00;21;57;28
examples of you as a human
is your Tiny Desk

00;21;57;28 - 00;22;02;28
video of the song Slave name.

00;22;02;28 - 00;22;07;31
Can you can you talk just a little bit
about that piece of music?

00;22;07;36 - 00;22;08;05
Sure.

00;22;08;05 - 00;22;11;28
and the musicians that you're working with
who are just amazing.

00;22;11;33 - 00;22;12;54
Yeah, absolutely.

00;22;12;54 - 00;22;14;58
That was when I was performing.

00;22;14;58 - 00;22;18;36
Still with more of my full band.

00;22;18;41 - 00;22;21;52
Nexus J, I don't know,
they got some of the other band members

00;22;21;52 - 00;22;25;28
probably have their own names
that I'm just going to say.

00;22;25;28 - 00;22;32;38
The amazing individuals who played alongside with DXTR’s band,

00;22;32;43 - 00;22;34;47
and that was we had actually

00;22;34;47 - 00;22;39;14
submitted the year
before for our Tiny Desk competition.

00;22;39;15 - 00;22;43;05
We actually got picked
as one of the top three bands to perform

00;22;43;05 - 00;22;46;32
for the city of Chicago,
and that was our second year

00;22;46;37 - 00;22;48;50
submission where we really went all out.

00;22;48;50 - 00;22;53;46
We still got recognized, ended up
not doing a tour stop there.

00;22;53;50 - 00;22;56;50
But I think that video really embodies

00;22;56;54 - 00;23;00;16
the music side of me probably as a whole.

00;23;00;16 - 00;23;03;37
That's like what
our last performance is like.

00;23;03;37 - 00;23;09;10
That's some of all of that writing
delivery of the song and other things

00;23;09;10 - 00;23;15;04
was a combination of myself and Nexus
J, my good producer, Buddy Taylor Paris

00;23;15;04 - 00;23;17;49
 if he listens to this

00;23;17;49 - 00;23;20;58
and then just the band
for bringing it to come alive,

00;23;20;58 - 00;23;27;00
I mean, they just did a crazy job,
but I would say that's probably

00;23;27;05 - 00;23;27;48
some of

00;23;27;48 - 00;23;31;38
the most
it was a very raw form of expression.

00;23;31;38 - 00;23;34;38
I think that's why I've always loved
and enjoyed music

00;23;34;42 - 00;23;39;30
and side by side with, you know, my
my work with spoken word.

00;23;39;30 - 00;23;43;34
Is it just it allows you
to kind of tell your story in a way

00;23;43;34 - 00;23;49;30
that can be theatrical,
It can be raw emotion, it can be playful.

00;23;49;41 - 00;23;52;57
So I think that that one kind of embodies all of those things.

00;23;52;57 - 00;23;56;20
And I really
and that was a really fun shoot as well.

00;23;56;20 - 00;23;58;22
And one thing to point out.

00;23;58;22 - 00;24;02;14
It's a one straight through shot.

00;24;02;18 - 00;24;03;18
There is no edit.

00;24;03;18 - 00;24;06;58
in the video slave
name it’s one straight good take.

00;24;07;03 - 00;24;08;13
Nice.

00;24;08;13 - 00;24;12;56
And it seems like there's
an economic message in there.

00;24;13;00 - 00;24;13;51
Yeah with

00;24;13;51 - 00;24;17;46
that really was talking about
is kind of butting heads

00;24;17;46 - 00;24;24;09
with the kind of corporate life
or just this idea of how we're supposed

00;24;24;09 - 00;24;28;10
to just plug away not even just corporate,
just working life in general.

00;24;28;10 - 00;24;32;08
We're just supposed to plug away
like these little worker bees

00;24;32;08 - 00;24;35;38
and go do our little jobs
and kind of shut up

00;24;35;47 - 00;24;41;10
and just allow society to move us along
and this in this wave.

00;24;41;11 - 00;24;43;40
So in a way, it's kind of this,

00;24;43;40 - 00;24;47;26
I hate to say, like rebelling
against the system, but 

00;24;47;26 - 00;24;52;22
It is kind of the vantage point
that it was written from.

00;24;52;27 - 00;24;56;08
So, yeah, you're spoken
ah, you're spoken word

00;24;56;08 - 00;24;59;08
pieces is also really touch on these

00;24;59;08 - 00;25;04;21
pushing back
And so I wonder if you can say

00;25;04;21 - 00;25;08;09
just a touch about your spoken word piece

00;25;08;09 - 00;25;11;24
around violence

00;25;11;24 - 00;25;18;15
and pushing back on the narratives
that you know, ignore the realities

00;25;18;15 - 00;25;23;07
of people's lives that really is creating
societies, you know,

00;25;23;12 - 00;25;27;12
the challenges that we are having in
some in many societies today.

00;25;27;17 - 00;25;32;19
Yeah, I think I would say first
just for my spoken word

00;25;32;19 - 00;25;36;32
approach in general, and there's actually
a really deliberate reason why the reason

00;25;36;32 - 00;25;40;17
why I went on the spoken word,
you know, for the men's,

00;25;40;28 - 00;25;44;54
I was sort of just because I think
it allows the words to fall to the ears

00;25;44;54 - 00;25;49;04
differently, than music. Sometimes
with the music there can be a lot in the way.

00;25;49;04 - 00;25;50;43
And there's something raw

00;25;50;43 - 00;25;53;41
about just storytelling because that's
actually the way that I write

00;25;53;41 - 00;25;59;14
all of those pieces is really
with a through line story and metaphor.

00;25;59;19 - 00;26;06;06
And I think what I try to articulate,
if I can, is stuff

00;26;06;06 - 00;26;09;30
for the audience to walk away
and make their own judgments from.

00;26;09;34 - 00;26;12;32
But in, you know, some of the pieces

00;26;12;32 - 00;26;15;45
I'm trying to convey

00;26;15;45 - 00;26;19;51
that there can be pain
on a lot of sides of an equation.

00;26;19;51 - 00;26;24;53
So my poem, understand is the poem.

00;26;24;58 - 00;26;27;20
So in the poem

00;26;27;25 - 00;26;32;02
I kind of depict in a way that there's

00;26;32;02 - 00;26;38;11
this pain on both sides 
as to a weapon, essentially.

00;26;38;18 - 00;26;41;43
You know, I kind of talk about
I don't want to spoil it for anyone

00;26;41;43 - 00;26;46;43
who may watch the performance,
but essentially you just see that there

00;26;46;49 - 00;26;50;29
is pain
on both sides of many equations that

00;26;50;30 - 00;26;53;30
sometimes we will criticize.

00;26;53;44 - 00;26;58;17
And I think it's harder to see that
so much of what we're going through in

00;26;58;17 - 00;27;03;10
society is coming from a root place of trauma
quite often,

00;27;03;14 - 00;27;07;30
and we tend to blame the symptom
or the action.

00;27;07;30 - 00;27;09;41
And I think
that's pretty across the board.

00;27;09;41 - 00;27;11;58
We usually look at, well,
look at what somebody is doing,

00;27;11;58 - 00;27;14;45
look at what's happening with this person,
look at what they did.

00;27;14;45 - 00;27;17;11
And I'm immediately going more to a space.

00;27;17;11 - 00;27;20;18
I wonder what happened to them,
you know, or

00;27;20;18 - 00;27;23;19
I wonder how they actually got to
this point.

00;27;23;19 - 00;27;25;28
It's like it's people don't just

00;27;25;32 - 00;27;27;12
exist and,

00;27;27;12 - 00;27;31;01
you know, cause harm within the world
without some type of harm.

00;27;31;03 - 00;27;34;57
I would say generally, you know,
without some type of rooting of harm

00;27;34;57 - 00;27;37;57
in some way, shape or form,
or another to their life.

00;27;38;01 - 00;27;41;17
So moving forward, are there

00;27;41;17 - 00;27;45;14
some next steps or resources
that you'd like

00;27;45;14 - 00;27;48;27
to share with our listeners
who are on a journey

00;27;48;27 - 00;27;52;37
to connect more deeply with themselves
and with others?

00;27;52;42 - 00;27;54;59
Yeah. So for How Men Cry

00;27;54;59 - 00;28;00;27
next year we're going to be doing more
men's retreats, working one day long

00;28;00;27 - 00;28;03;37
and then multi day ones for the moment

00;28;03;37 - 00;28;06;41
that's been based in the Chicago area.

00;28;06;41 - 00;28;10;56
But I'm looking to branch 
much of that off

00;28;10;56 - 00;28;15;30
and again try to collaborate
with more individuals in different spaces.

00;28;15;35 - 00;28;19;02
And then the other way to probably more

00;28;19;07 - 00;28;24;20
directly work with us
is to work with us on a speaking session

00;28;24;25 - 00;28;30;00
where again we combine spoken word
material, meditation,

00;28;30;05 - 00;28;32;16
reflections, journaling
and kind of weave

00;28;32;16 - 00;28;35;34
all of these things together
so that we have a creative way

00;28;35;38 - 00;28;40;42
to build that bridge
about talking about our mental health.

00;28;40;47 - 00;28;44;12
And then last but not least,
part of the creative things

00;28;44;12 - 00;28;47;24
that I'm also working on doing
is coaching in a

00;28;47;24 - 00;28;51;32
more one on one basis
because I think that

00;28;51;37 - 00;28;55;05
helps one for me to grow,
but it also helps,

00;28;55;05 - 00;29;00;11
I think, a lot of guys directly and what
I'm coming to find as well too, is women

00;29;00;11 - 00;29;05;24
that want to have a better understanding
of what to do with guys sometimes

00;29;05;29 - 00;29;07;03
so, that's probably

00;29;07;03 - 00;29;11;43
the easiest ways that we can 
directly connect and collaborate.

00;29;11;43 - 00;29;16;53
But of course, feel free
to reach out to me directly

00;29;16;58 - 00;29;20;19
or to our website,
which is being reformatted

00;29;20;19 - 00;29;23;14
to show all the wonderful things 
that we're doing now.

00;29;23;14 - 00;29;23;46
Beautiful.

00;29;23;46 - 00;29;25;07
And we'll include a link to that

00;29;25;07 - 00;29;29;02
on the podcast show notes as well
I wonder, before we close,

00;29;29;02 - 00;29;32;30
if you have any final words
you'd like to share with our listeners

00;29;32;30 - 00;29;36;34
about living more fully
and how we can change

00;29;36;39 - 00;29;40;51
our narratives and paradigms
to make a more compassionate world?

00;29;40;56 - 00;29;45;10
Yeah, I think

00;29;45;15 - 00;29;45;33
maybe

00;29;45;33 - 00;29;49;11
the best thing that we can do
is slow down.

00;29;49;16 - 00;29;53;38
I think that's probably going to be
my number one for that is to slow down

00;29;53;38 - 00;29;57;43
and take enough time to be with ourselves

00;29;57;53 - 00;30;03;33
and to realize that there is nothing wrong
with taking a moment

00;30;03;33 - 00;30;06;37
to realize if you are in pain
or even if you're not,

00;30;06;37 - 00;30;09;51
even if you're at a point of joy
and happiness.

00;30;10;00 - 00;30;16;30
You know, these states are temporary,
but this story that we all have,

00;30;16;30 - 00;30;19;48
our stories are all connected
from our own past

00;30;19;48 - 00;30;23;26
and childhoods and pains and woundings,
but also joy and happiness.

00;30;23;31 - 00;30;24;25
And that connects

00;30;24;25 - 00;30;28;23
just like the next person you know,
that we're sitting across from.

00;30;28;28 - 00;30;32;59
And I think if we can just kind of,
you know, remember this pathway

00;30;32;59 - 00;30;36;22
that we've had
and that somebody else is on a pathway

00;30;36;22 - 00;30;41;32
just not just like that, but
just like that from the context of having,

00;30;41;39 - 00;30;46;28
you know, a story and just seeing
the humanity in one another.

00;30;46;28 - 00;30;51;33
I think the world has a shot
at being a better and better place. 

00;30;51;38 - 00;30;52;46
Wonderful.

00;30;52;46 - 00;30;57;18
Well, I want to say thank you so much
again for this beautiful conversation.

00;30;57;18 - 00;31;01;07
And I want to remind our listeners
that in the podcast show notes,

00;31;01;12 - 00;31;07;06
you will have access to a link to DXTR
Spits’s website, his YouTube channel.

00;31;07;21 - 00;31;10;55
And of course, as always,
there will be a link

00;31;10;55 - 00;31;12;50
to the Center for Partnership Systems

00;31;12;50 - 00;31;16;50
where you can always dig deeper
into courses and resources.

00;31;16;55 - 00;31;19;24
To learn more about

00;31;19;24 - 00;31;22;22
Dr. Riane Eisler’s 
Cultural Transformation Theory,

00;31;22;22 - 00;31;25;22
the Domination Partnership Continuum,
and of course,

00;31;25;25 - 00;31;30;17
the four cornerstones
of every society of childhood and family,

00;31;30;22 - 00;31;33;56
gender,
economics and narratives and stories.