Uncovering Coercive Control with Jennifer Parker

This episode with author Jennifer Parker uncovers the role that culture – and the domination paradigm – plays in abusive and controlling behaviors. This episode is Part 1 of a 2 Part series on Coercive Control. Part 2 uncovers the role that coercive control plays in our family court system. 

Coercive Control: Find the Answers You Seek (Amazon)

Jennifer Parker website: www.jennifercparkermssw.com

Transcript

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Welcome
to the Power of Partnership podcast.

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I’m Riane Eisler, President of the Center
for Partnership Systems.

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This podcast brings you voices

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from the partnership movement,

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people using partnership practices

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to build a world that values caring

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nature and shared prosperity.

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The Power of Partnership podcast

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is hosted by Cherri Jacobs Pruitt,

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a Health Policy and Partnership scholar.

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Today, Cherri interviews author

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Jennifer Parker on the role that culture

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and the domination paradigm

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play in abusive and controlling behaviors.

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And now on to today's PoP podcast

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showing how increasing this awareness

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can help heal the world.

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So before I welcome today's guest,
I want to share with our audience that

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today's episode is part one of a two part
series on coercive control.

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In today's episode, we'll be discussing
how the power

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imbalance that is inherent
to the domination paradigm

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shows up as coercive control
in relationships.

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Then in part two,
which will be released in two weeks,

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I'll be interviewing Kate Amber,
founder of End Coercive Control USA,

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about the issues
coercive control introduces

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into the family court system.

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So now I'd like to, on behalf
of Riane Eisler

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and the entire Center
for Partnership Systems team, welcome,

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Jennifer Parker
to today's episode of the Power

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of Partnership podcast.

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Thank you.

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Cherri, I am delighted to be here,
and I am just honored

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because I have followed
Riane's work for decades now

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and really have found it
very valuable in terms of thinking

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about our institutions
as well as our intimate relationships.

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So thank you for having me

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So, Jennifer, can we start by you
sharing a bit about your journey

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that's bringing you here today,

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including how and when you first learned
of Riane Eisler’s

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work?

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Absolutely.

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And pleasure to to share that.

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So I first learned about Riane Eisler’s
work through the Chalice and The Blade

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and I was going through
a very difficult period.

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My marriage was ending,
with all the crisis,

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you know,
the feelings that come up about that.

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And I was asking myself what happened,

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you know, really looking at myself,
looking at my marriage.

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And that book really spoke to me
because it really opened my eyes

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to how domination values
happen in our culture

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and then how they permeate
intimate relationships.

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Well at the same time, right
the same time period.

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I began doing a practicum
at a domestic abuse shelter,

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and I didn't think that I knew anything
about intimate partner abuse.

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And much to my surprise, I identified
with them a lot more than I thought.

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And that was because I had experienced
some domination in my marriage.

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I experienced it in my childhood home,
growing up with my parents,

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those kinds of things.

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So that really opened my eyes.

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And so I really became inspired to empower
other survivors

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of intimate partner abuse
through that experience at the shelter.

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So when I went to be, 
trained as a therapist,

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I sought out a place that I could
actually specialize in that as well.

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In my work

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I began to develop a curriculum,
first of all,

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of materials
for intimate partner abuse.

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And then I decided, you know, it's
so rewarding to see people blossom

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and to really connect with helps
what helps to empower them.

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I decided that I'd like to write a book.

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And so I wrote Coercive Relationships:
Find The Answers You Seek

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over a ten year period.

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So it was while I was busy doing therapy.

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But then, what I discovered
is all of Riane’s

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other books.

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So years later,
I discovered what she's written about

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domination systems in the school,
how we teach, how we educate,

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in religious institutions,
in the political

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in our economics
and certainly in our family.

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And so I really connected all of that
with my work it, really,

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it really helped to empower people
experiencing abuse in their partners

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to not take on that shame of it
being this is a personal issue.

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And they're to blame for that.

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But seeing it more as this is
something that exists in our society

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and that is domination
values and systems

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get taught, you know, to varying degrees
in our families.

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We take those messages,
we see it in education and so forth.

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And what I

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found using her work, I identified

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four basic assumptions
that underlie intimate partner abuse.

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Those four assumptions are, first of all,
that there's only so much power.

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It's finite.

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So if one person has power,
that means you can't have any.

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And then there is,

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a belief, an assumption
that if you are going to be powerful,

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it has to be power over
others, over things,

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rather than we each have power within
and we can share power.

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It's possible
to share power and there are institutions

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you know many times in which that happens.

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Partners can do that.

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And then diversity is threatening
is the other, third one.

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So if you don't agree with me or
if somebody comes from a different culture

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or something like that,
that somehow that's threatening,

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that you have to put down that other
you have to create some fear about it.

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And then the last one,
kind of all three of those

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feed into
some people have more worth than others.

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And what I found is that the beliefs,

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and the behaviors
of people who've used abuse

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against their partners
really followed from those assumptions.

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And when I did a survey with my clients,
some of my clients, they said yes.

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And so, like, for instance, I'm entitled
to get my way all of the time,

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and your needs and values or your feelings
do not matter and operate.

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And they might not say that,
but they behave that way.

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And so they really identify with that.

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And so helping them to see, to begin
to tell their stories

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as Riane talks about
a story is so important.

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The messages we give
in our society are so important

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and so beginning to help them

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to see that their story really mirrors

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what happens in domination systems
in our society.

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And so that really
I can talk more about that.

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But those beliefs, really help free
people from shaming themselves about it.

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And instead
they begin to empower themselves.

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And with partnership,
looking at partnership

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values,
Jennifer, what is coercive control?

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That's a good question.

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So coercive
control is a term that came from,

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Evan Stark
and his book called Coercive Control.

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I think he was the first one
to use the term.

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And it is a pattern of behavior.

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So not a one time incident,
but a pattern of behavior

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that is designed to,

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reduce the,

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civil rights to dominate and to reduce
the civil rights of a partner.

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And of course,
this happens in our society,

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as I just mentioned,
but we'll just talk about with partners.

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So it's a pattern of behavior
that does that

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by with fear, things that cause fear.

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And that could be emotional fear
of losing the relationship too

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but also fear of physical danger,

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fear of being left, whatever it,

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it might be and the dependency it creates

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dependency on that other person
and oftentimes includes isolating

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from other people
who might be resources for them.

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And so that is what coercive control is.

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And the beauty of that term
is it speaks to more people.

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Because when you talk about domestic
violence,

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many people don't don't see
that is what has happening

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because maybe they're not
being physically abused.

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But what we know
is that the emotional abuse, the,

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the 10 there are 12 in my book, but

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ten of them are emotional mental abuse.

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And that that is the most damaging
to people

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that if you can control through that,
you don't even need to use physical abuse.

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let's talk
a little bit more about the book

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and, 
what what can readers expect to find?

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first of all,
I really this is my book, by the way.

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Lovely. Thank you.

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I, I named it Find the Answers You Seek

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because I really kind of modeled
it on answering some common questions.

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And the first one is, what is coercive
control?

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Is my relationship really abusive?

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Because oftentimes they go back and forth.

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So there's material in there
that helps them with that.

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And another one is
why does my partner harm me?

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Why does my partner hurt us?

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And looking at that's when I begin
to look at those four assumptions

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that I mentioned.

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I begin
to get into the domination paradigm

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and how that's where their partners
behavior is coming from,

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why they behave the way they do.

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They say they love you
and we don't get into, well, no,

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they don't love you,

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but you certainly don't like
how they're loving you, you know?

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But this is why. From there I also give
I answer

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what does it look like in other ways
because oftentimes survivors

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would come in and they would say,
well this thing is going on at work.

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And it feels really crummy.

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It kind of feels like
what my partner was doing, you know,

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so there can be workplace
abuse that happens.

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It can happen.

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Domination happens certainly
in our political and economic institutions

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in the form of racism,
you know, all kinds of other oppressions.

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And so helping them to see that there's
this there's this one, this domination

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paradigm is really driving all of that
and helping them to see that

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it's not about them,
not to take it personally,

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but also to give them, ways
that they can empower themselves.

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Like coping strategies
for dealing with it.

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I also

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look at so how can I go forward,
you know, okay, this is happening.

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I don't like this.

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They make their decisions
about what they're going to do about it.

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But how can I go forward in my life
and not just be stuck on

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talking about what's happened,
what happened to my abusive relationship,

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and it identifies many I call them
roads in the book, but roads that they take

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because they learned in their families
or in their society

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that somehow, for instance,

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if they’re a woman

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that they need to be
totally responsible for the relationship,

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that they need to take care
of other people, that they can't

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take care of themselves,
that somehow that's seen as selfish.

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So that was a lesson or it could be,

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oh, I need to take care of

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this abusive person because
look at what happened in their lives.

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And they may have had things
that were really very tragedies

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that might have harmed them
when they grew up,

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but that doesn't
excuse their behavior now.

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And so looking at that road or looking at,
why is their self-esteem

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not so good,
so different roads that they take

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and then ending with really helping them
to look at,

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how they can heal, beginning that
healing journey.

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Great.

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You are listening
to the Power of Partnership podcast.

00;13;03;57 - 00;13;07;32
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00;13;24;55 - 00;13;27;55
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Reach out to us
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And now back to today's episode.

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So the target
audience for the book is survivors, people

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or people who are, currently wondering
if they're, in a coercive,

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relationship with coercive control
taking place, or is it

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for also equally for professionals
working with those individuals?

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It is also for professionals
working with those.

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I've had many therapists say
that they found it very valuable in terms

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of their own understanding,
but also there are reflection

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opportunities throughout the book,
so that this is heavy stuff.

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Okay.

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So it's like you don't deal with this.

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You don't just flip over a new leaf.

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That's just not how change happens.

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And so there are pauses for people
to kind of consider different things

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and how it applies.
in their relationship.

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And that's helpful for, for therapists
to hear about.

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It's also really helpful for people

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who are concerned about somebody learning
more about what they're facing

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is very,

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very important so that they don't
mistakenly get into,

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asking questions like, well,
why don't you just leave

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and that kind of thing
that isn't helpful at all.

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Nice.

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So can you share now a bit
about the programs that you're currently

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working with, either with survivors
or other professional therapists?

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Definitely.

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So, of course, doing
a lot of social media,

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work getting the word out about my book
that I mentioned.

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So Coercive Relationships

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and I the other big thing
that I do is work with therapists on

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how to be effective in terms of doing

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work with survivors of, partner abuse.

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And so I do workshops,

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and currently I've done courses
through a university, and I hope

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to actually develop a virtual course
that people could do on their own.

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That's something that's
kind of in the works.

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The other thing I do
is I publish a monthly blog.

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So those who are interested in learning
more or getting support

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could subscribe to my monthly blog.

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And I think you'll have the links
for that. Yes.

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And there's also a newsletter where
I include resources that are helpful.

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Not just to survivors, but like to
professionals who are working with them.

00;15;49;32 - 00;15;54;26
And I'm currently also working
on refining my group curriculum

00;15;54;26 - 00;15;58;26
because groups are so powerful,
they're so empowering to people.

00;15;59;17 - 00;16;02;53
And so I want to encourage
more of those kinds of groups going.

00;16;03;06 - 00;16;05;53
And so I'm refining that curriculum
so that I can get that out

00;16;05;53 - 00;16;08;03
to those therapists who are interested.

00;16;08;03 - 00;16;12;00
I wonder if there's anything else
you'd like to share about the impact

00;16;12;00 - 00;16;16;14
of Riane Eisler’s work on you,
or the survivors with whom you work with?

00;16;18;13 - 00;16;22;33
Yes. Well, therapy is a process,

00;16;23;15 - 00;16;27;05
and certainly in therapy
we use things we really nurture.

00;16;27;05 - 00;16;27;50
We care.

00;16;27;50 - 00;16;31;08
We use a lot of what
the partnership paradigm is about.

00;16;31;47 - 00;16;34;33
And as we do that work,

00;16;34;33 - 00;16;37;38
you can see people really lighting up,

00;16;38;43 - 00;16;40;47
you know, connecting,

00;16;40;47 - 00;16;45;47
figuring out that, that stopping
apologizing for everything that they do,

00;16;45;47 - 00;16;48;47
that really isn't anything
that they have control over.

00;16;50;02 - 00;16;52;51
And, one,

00;16;52;51 - 00;16;56;36
one woman that I can think of later in
my career was an older woman.

00;16;57;08 - 00;17;00;52
And many times people feel like, well,
when they're older, they've been in an

00;17;00;52 - 00;17;04;49
abusive relationship for so many times,
they're probably not going to leave.

00;17;05;18 - 00;17;09;30
But what I saw along the way,
is this woman who took in information

00;17;09;30 - 00;17;11;25
about what coercive control was,

00;17;11;25 - 00;17;14;44
identified that with
what was happening with her partner.

00;17;15;01 - 00;17;17;21
And and she started looking at,

00;17;18;51 - 00;17;20;35
how she could cope with that.

00;17;20;35 - 00;17;23;26
And, and
what did she want to do with that?

00;17;23;26 - 00;17;27;23
She ended up leaving and
it was so beautiful to see that pathway.

00;17;27;23 - 00;17;28;57
It couldn't happen right away.

00;17;28;57 - 00;17;31;57
And initially she came in saying

00;17;32;45 - 00;17;37;09
she didn't call it coercive control,
but she had a sense that it wasn't okay.

00;17;37;09 - 00;17;38;59
And and she just felt beaten down

00;17;38;59 - 00;17;42;28
and hopeless about being able
to change her life situation.

00;17;42;51 - 00;17;45;46
And she'd been in therapy before,
and the therapist

00;17;45;46 - 00;17;49;03
seemed to think that she should leave,
and she wasn't ready for that.

00;17;49;30 - 00;17;52;57
And so as she was able
to walk her own path

00;17;53;19 - 00;17;58;19
through that, and with the information
about what are healthy relationships

00;17;58;19 - 00;18;02;31
and that she is not responsible
for her husband's behavior

00;18;02;55 - 00;18;05;47
and that, it is abuse.

00;18;05;47 - 00;18;09;44
Well, I mean, she would kind of question
that then that really empowered her.

00;18;10;51 - 00;18;12;30
Nice.

00;18;12;30 - 00;18;13;50
Thank you.

00;18;13;50 - 00;18;18;25
So for our listeners and viewers,
I will be sharing all of the resources

00;18;18;25 - 00;18;22;53
that Jennifer has mentioned
during today's episode in the show notes.

00;18;23;18 - 00;18;26;52
And along with,
of course, the link to the Center

00;18;26;52 - 00;18;31;09
for Partnership Systems, where
you can always dig deeper into Riane

00;18;31;11 - 00;18;36;33
Eisler’s cultural transformation theory,
the domination partnership social lens

00;18;36;33 - 00;18;39;58
continuum,
and of course, the four cornerstones

00;18;39;58 - 00;18;45;38
that really are those levers for change
in all societies of childhood and family,

00;18;46;07 - 00;18;49;26
gender, economics, and narratives

00;18;49;26 - 00;18;52;26
and stories that we've been speaking about
a bit today.

00;18;53;34 - 00;18;55;28
So, Jennifer, I wonder

00;18;55;28 - 00;18;58;51
before we close,
if you have any final words

00;18;58;51 - 00;19;01;55
that you would like to share
with our audience members,

00;19;02;27 - 00;19;04;02
I do,

00;19;04;02 - 00;19;07;02
so we all can help heal the world

00;19;07;09 - 00;19;10;09
through our partnership values.

00;19;10;45 - 00;19;16;11
And if you are a person who knows
someone who has experienced

00;19;16;11 - 00;19;19;10
or you think they might have experienced
intimate partner abuse,

00;19;19;25 - 00;19;22;48
I really encourage you to know
that listening to them,

00;19;23;36 - 00;19;26;36
offering them understanding, empathy,

00;19;27;06 - 00;19;30;12
asking questions

00;19;30;28 - 00;19;34;13
including how can I
is there anything I can do for you?

00;19;34;13 - 00;19;36;35
Or, you know, how can I best help you?

00;19;36;35 - 00;19;40;11
And what you may hear
from them is just listening.

00;19;41;14 - 00;19;43;11
Do not ever undervalue

00;19;43;11 - 00;19;46;46
that in our society,
because when we are heard,

00;19;47;24 - 00;19;53;22
when we are recognized as 
 worthy human beings, you know,

00;19;53;22 - 00;19;57;03
because that's what we communicate
when we listen and we empathize.

00;19;57;30 - 00;20;00;28
That is so empowering

00;20;00;28 - 00;20;03;44
that’s a wonderful beginning. So frequently

00;20;03;44 - 00;20;04;49
and as a therapist,

00;20;04;49 - 00;20;07;51
sometimes I would feel a little helpless
too when there was something

00;20;07;51 - 00;20;11;25
that I was concerned about
that was going on, but just know

00;20;11;25 - 00;20;14;57
to kind of sit on that,
that uncertainty about it

00;20;15;35 - 00;20;18;43
and instead
don't try to offer to solve it for them,

00;20;19;05 - 00;20;23;29
but instead ask questions, ask
what can I do and offer them say,

00;20;23;29 - 00;20;26;15
do you know about this?
Do you know about that?

00;20;26;15 - 00;20;28;10
Instead of you should.

00;20;28;10 - 00;20;31;22
And, I think we were talking
about earlier about a shirt

00;20;31;22 - 00;20;35;32
that I had that says, you should never
should don't shouldn’t a survivor.

00;20;35;32 - 00;20;39;19
And so you never want to do that
because you don't know,

00;20;39;28 - 00;20;40;54
you haven't walked in their shoes.

00;20;40;54 - 00;20;42;38
You don't know what they're facing.

00;20;42;38 - 00;20;47;13
They know what is safe for them to do
and what they're ready to do.

00;20;47;13 - 00;20;50;38
And so what you can do
is listen and support them.

00;20;51;05 - 00;20;56;15
And that is really you're
using the respect, the care, the nurturing

00;20;56;40 - 00;20;58;12
that is what partnership

00;20;58;12 - 00;21;01;15
is all about. Partnership
paradigm, right?

00;21;01;39 - 00;21;04;40
So and I think that carrying
that into the world,

00;21;04;40 - 00;21;08;00
whether it's to
somebody experiencing abuse

00;21;08;00 - 00;21;11;56
or whether that's just everybody, that's
how we're going to heal the world.

00;21;12;41 - 00;21;14;14
Lovely. Thank you so much.