Uncovering Coercive Control with Jennifer Parker

Abuse isn’t always physical—and it’s often hidden in plain sight. In this episode of The Power of Partnership Podcast, author and therapist Jennifer Parker exposes how coercive control operates as a patterned, domination-based abuse that erodes rights, freedom, and self-worth. Drawing on her book Coercive Relationships and decades of work with survivors, Jennifer explains the cultural roots of controlling behavior and the four core beliefs that sustain it. She also shares how partnership values—listening, empathy, and shared power—can help survivors reclaim agency and create healthier relationships, offering a path toward personal and societal healing. This episode is Part 1 of a 2 Part series on Coercive Control. Part 2 uncovers the role that coercive control plays in our family court system with Kate Amber, founder of End Coercive Control USA. 

SUPPORT THE POWER OF PARTNERSHIP PODCAST (https://www.buzzsprout.com/2207697/support)

Prefer to watch? You can also view all episodes of The Power of Partnership Podcast on the Center for Partnership Systems YouTube channel

Coercive Control: Find the Answers You Seek (Amazon)

Jennifer Parker website: www.jennifercparkermssw.com

The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future, Riane Eisler (https://centerforpartnership.org/resources/books/the-chalice-and-the-blade-our-history-our-future/)

The Power of Partnership: Seven Relationships that will Change Your Life, Riane Eisler (https://centerforpartnership.org/resources/books/the-power-of-partnership/)

Center for Partnership Systems (https://centerforpartnership.org/)

center@partnershipway.org

Center for Partnership "Join Us" email link  

Resilience, Rising Appalachia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx17RvPMaQ8

Transcript

00;00;20;22 - 00;00;24;07
Welcome
to the Power of Partnership podcast.

00;00;24;52 - 00;00;29;25
I’m Riane Eisler, President of the Center
for Partnership Systems.

00;00;30;23 - 00;00;34;02
This podcast brings you voices

00;00;34;22 - 00;00;37;22
from the partnership movement,

00;00;37;26 - 00;00;41;09
people using partnership practices

00;00;41;32 - 00;00;44;32
to build a world that values caring

00;00;45;02 - 00;00;48;29
nature and shared prosperity.

00;00;49;18 - 00;00;51;34
The Power of Partnership podcast

00;00;51;34 - 00;00;55;07
is hosted by Cherri Jacobs Pruitt,

00;00;55;37 - 00;00;58;57
a Health Policy and Partnership scholar.

00;00;59;32 - 00;01;02;49
Today, Cherri interviews author

00;01;02;49 - 00;01;06;37
Jennifer Parker on the role that culture

00;01;07;19 - 00;01;10;11
and the domination paradigm

00;01;10;11 - 00;01;14;46
play in abusive and controlling behaviors.

00;01;15;36 - 00;01;19;51
And now on to today's PoP podcast

00;01;20;11 - 00;01;23;36
showing how increasing this awareness

00;01;23;57 - 00;01;26;34
can help heal the world.

00;01;40;09 - 00;01;44;24
So before I welcome today's guest,
I want to share with our audience that

00;01;44;24 - 00;01;50;00
today's episode is part one of a two part
series on coercive control.

00;01;50;31 - 00;01;54;21
In today's episode, we'll be discussing
how the power

00;01;54;21 - 00;01;58;40
imbalance that is inherent
to the domination paradigm

00;01;58;49 - 00;02;02;25
shows up as coercive control
in relationships.

00;02;02;57 - 00;02;06;22
Then in part two,
which will be released in two weeks,

00;02;06;40 - 00;02;11;55
I'll be interviewing Kate Amber,
founder of End Coercive Control USA,

00;02;12;13 - 00;02;15;22
about the issues
coercive control introduces

00;02;15;22 - 00;02;18;22
into the family court system.

00;02;18;32 - 00;02;22;09
So now I'd like to, on behalf
of Riane Eisler

00;02;22;09 - 00;02;26;21
and the entire Center
for Partnership Systems team, welcome,

00;02;26;21 - 00;02;29;26
Jennifer Parker
to today's episode of the Power

00;02;29;26 - 00;02;32;26
of Partnership podcast.

00;02;33;09 - 00;02;33;36
Thank you.

00;02;33;36 - 00;02;37;30
Cherri, I am delighted to be here,
and I am just honored

00;02;37;30 - 00;02;41;24
because I have followed
Riane's work for decades now

00;02;41;43 - 00;02;44;43
and really have found it
very valuable in terms of thinking

00;02;44;43 - 00;02;48;37
about our institutions
as well as our intimate relationships.

00;02;48;37 - 00;02;50;35
So thank you for having me

00;02;50;35 - 00;02;54;35
So, Jennifer, can we start by you
sharing a bit about your journey

00;02;54;35 - 00;02;55;58
that's bringing you here today,

00;02;55;58 - 00;03;00;18
including how and when you first learned
of Riane Eisler’s

00;03;00;18 - 00;03;00;46
work?

00;03;02;09 - 00;03;02;59
Absolutely.

00;03;02;59 - 00;03;05;20
And pleasure to to share that.

00;03;05;20 - 00;03;09;18
So I first learned about Riane Eisler’s
work through the Chalice and The Blade

00;03;09;25 - 00;03;12;53
and I was going through
a very difficult period.

00;03;12;55 - 00;03;16;36
My marriage was ending,
with all the crisis,

00;03;16;36 - 00;03;19;36
you know,
the feelings that come up about that.

00;03;19;40 - 00;03;22;39
And I was asking myself what happened,

00;03;22;45 - 00;03;25;45
you know, really looking at myself,
looking at my marriage.

00;03;26;19 - 00;03;30;54
And that book really spoke to me
because it really opened my eyes

00;03;30;54 - 00;03;34;55
to how domination values
happen in our culture

00;03;34;55 - 00;03;37;55
and then how they permeate
intimate relationships.

00;03;38;04 - 00;03;41;30
Well at the same time, right
the same time period.

00;03;42;01 - 00;03;46;07
I began doing a practicum
at a domestic abuse shelter,

00;03;46;52 - 00;03;50;59
and I didn't think that I knew anything
about intimate partner abuse.

00;03;51;15 - 00;03;55;09
And much to my surprise, I identified
with them a lot more than I thought.

00;03;55;30 - 00;04;00;08
And that was because I had experienced
some domination in my marriage.

00;04;00;08 - 00;04;04;44
I experienced it in my childhood home,
growing up with my parents,

00;04;05;10 - 00;04;06;04
those kinds of things.

00;04;06;04 - 00;04;08;32
So that really opened my eyes.

00;04;08;32 - 00;04;14;00
And so I really became inspired to empower
other survivors

00;04;14;09 - 00;04;17;34
of intimate partner abuse
through that experience at the shelter.

00;04;17;44 - 00;04;21;04
So when I went to be, 
trained as a therapist,

00;04;21;26 - 00;04;26;04
I sought out a place that I could
actually specialize in that as well.

00;04;26;35 - 00;04;27;43
In my work

00;04;27;43 - 00;04;30;56
I began to develop a curriculum,
first of all,

00;04;30;56 - 00;04;34;28
of materials
for intimate partner abuse.

00;04;34;53 - 00;04;40;10
And then I decided, you know, it's
so rewarding to see people blossom

00;04;40;10 - 00;04;44;54
and to really connect with helps
what helps to empower them.

00;04;45;12 - 00;04;47;45
I decided that I'd like to write a book.

00;04;47;45 - 00;04;51;08
And so I wrote Coercive Relationships:
Find The Answers You Seek

00;04;51;08 - 00;04;52;59
over a ten year period.

00;04;52;59 - 00;04;55;38
So it was while I was busy doing therapy.

00;04;55;38 - 00;04;59;44
But then, what I discovered
is all of Riane’s

00;04;59;46 - 00;05;00;40
other books.

00;05;00;40 - 00;05;05;17
So years later,
I discovered what she's written about

00;05;05;17 - 00;05;09;56
domination systems in the school,
how we teach, how we educate,

00;05;10;19 - 00;05;13;40
in religious institutions,
in the political

00;05;14;25 - 00;05;17;25
in our economics
and certainly in our family.

00;05;17;40 - 00;05;22;07
And so I really connected all of that
with my work it, really,

00;05;22;49 - 00;05;27;46
it really helped to empower people
experiencing abuse in their partners

00;05;27;46 - 00;05;32;33
to not take on that shame of it
being this is a personal issue.

00;05;33;02 - 00;05;34;52
And they're to blame for that.

00;05;34;52 - 00;05;38;58
But seeing it more as this is
something that exists in our society

00;05;39;16 - 00;05;43;33
and that is domination
values and systems

00;05;43;33 - 00;05;47;31
get taught, you know, to varying degrees
in our families.

00;05;47;31 - 00;05;51;19
We take those messages,
we see it in education and so forth.

00;05;51;30 - 00;05;52;13
And what I

00;05;52;13 - 00;05;56;13
found using her work, I identified

00;05;56;13 - 00;06;00;32
four basic assumptions
that underlie intimate partner abuse.

00;06;01;04 - 00;06;04;41
Those four assumptions are, first of all,
that there's only so much power.

00;06;04;41 - 00;06;06;06
It's finite.

00;06;06;06 - 00;06;09;36
So if one person has power,
that means you can't have any.

00;06;10;01 - 00;06;13;44
And then there is,

00;06;13;49 - 00;06;18;59
a belief, an assumption
that if you are going to be powerful,

00;06;18;59 - 00;06;23;05
it has to be power over
others, over things,

00;06;23;29 - 00;06;28;25
rather than we each have power within
and we can share power.

00;06;28;51 - 00;06;31;25
It's possible
to share power and there are institutions

00;06;31;25 - 00;06;33;28
you know many times in which that happens.

00;06;33;28 - 00;06;35;23
Partners can do that.

00;06;35;23 - 00;06;39;58
And then diversity is threatening
is the other, third one.

00;06;40;52 - 00;06;45;29
So if you don't agree with me or
if somebody comes from a different culture

00;06;45;29 - 00;06;49;26
or something like that,
that somehow that's threatening,

00;06;49;26 - 00;06;52;49
that you have to put down that other
you have to create some fear about it.

00;06;53;22 - 00;06;55;53
And then the last one,
kind of all three of those

00;06;55;53 - 00;06;58;52
feed into
some people have more worth than others.

00;06;59;22 - 00;07;02;09
And what I found is that the beliefs,

00;07;02;09 - 00;07;06;44
and the behaviors
of people who've used abuse

00;07;06;44 - 00;07;10;04
against their partners
really followed from those assumptions.

00;07;10;38 - 00;07;15;06
And when I did a survey with my clients,
some of my clients, they said yes.

00;07;15;33 - 00;07;21;02
And so, like, for instance, I'm entitled
to get my way all of the time,

00;07;21;02 - 00;07;26;04
and your needs and values or your feelings
do not matter and operate.

00;07;26;04 - 00;07;29;42
And they might not say that,
but they behave that way.

00;07;30;00 - 00;07;32;04
And so they really identify with that.

00;07;32;04 - 00;07;35;20
And so helping them to see, to begin
to tell their stories

00;07;35;38 - 00;07;38;38
as Riane talks about
a story is so important.

00;07;38;58 - 00;07;43;06
The messages we give
in our society are so important

00;07;43;38 - 00;07;46;11
and so beginning to help them

00;07;46;11 - 00;07;49;16
to see that their story really mirrors

00;07;49;16 - 00;07;53;19
what happens in domination systems
in our society.

00;07;53;51 - 00;07;57;22
And so that really
I can talk more about that.

00;07;57;22 - 00;08;02;40
But those beliefs, really help free
people from shaming themselves about it.

00;08;02;40 - 00;08;05;19
And instead
they begin to empower themselves.

00;08;05;19 - 00;08;08;31
And with partnership,
looking at partnership

00;08;08;31 - 00;08;11;50
values,
Jennifer, what is coercive control?

00;08;13;02 - 00;08;14;33
That's a good question.

00;08;14;33 - 00;08;17;40
So coercive
control is a term that came from,

00;08;17;40 - 00;08;21;18
Evan Stark
and his book called Coercive Control.

00;08;21;31 - 00;08;24;02
I think he was the first one
to use the term.

00;08;24;02 - 00;08;26;29
And it is a pattern of behavior.

00;08;26;29 - 00;08;30;07
So not a one time incident,
but a pattern of behavior

00;08;30;21 - 00;08;33;10
that is designed to,

00;08;33;10 - 00;08;36;21
reduce the,

00;08;36;21 - 00;08;41;41
civil rights to dominate and to reduce
the civil rights of a partner.

00;08;42;13 - 00;08;44;14
And of course,
this happens in our society,

00;08;44;14 - 00;08;47;01
as I just mentioned,
but we'll just talk about with partners.

00;08;47;01 - 00;08;50;06
So it's a pattern of behavior
that does that

00;08;50;06 - 00;08;53;06
by with fear, things that cause fear.

00;08;53;11 - 00;08;56;25
And that could be emotional fear
of losing the relationship too

00;08;56;42 - 00;08;59;41
but also fear of physical danger,

00;09;00;56 - 00;09;03;21
fear of being left, whatever it,

00;09;03;21 - 00;09;05;58
it might be and the dependency it creates

00;09;05;58 - 00;09;10;04
dependency on that other person
and oftentimes includes isolating

00;09;10;18 - 00;09;13;24
from other people
who might be resources for them.

00;09;13;49 - 00;09;16;45
And so that is what coercive control is.

00;09;16;45 - 00;09;20;01
And the beauty of that term
is it speaks to more people.

00;09;20;24 - 00;09;23;06
Because when you talk about domestic
violence,

00;09;23;06 - 00;09;27;38
many people don't don't see
that is what has happening

00;09;27;38 - 00;09;30;38
because maybe they're not
being physically abused.

00;09;30;43 - 00;09;33;48
But what we know
is that the emotional abuse, the,

00;09;34;07 - 00;09;37;46
the 10 there are 12 in my book, but

00;09;37;46 - 00;09;40;47
ten of them are emotional mental abuse.

00;09;41;07 - 00;09;44;07
And that that is the most damaging
to people

00;09;44;12 - 00;09;48;05
that if you can control through that,
you don't even need to use physical abuse.

00;09;48;47 - 00;09;51;40
let's talk
a little bit more about the book

00;09;51;40 - 00;09;54;57
and, 
what what can readers expect to find?

00;09;55;49 - 00;10;00;20
first of all,
I really this is my book, by the way.

00;10;00;33 - 00;10;01;50
Lovely. Thank you.

00;10;01;50 - 00;10;04;12
I, I named it Find the Answers You Seek

00;10;04;12 - 00;10;08;26
because I really kind of modeled
it on answering some common questions.

00;10;08;26 - 00;10;11;16
And the first one is, what is coercive
control?

00;10;11;16 - 00;10;13;19
Is my relationship really abusive?

00;10;13;19 - 00;10;15;21
Because oftentimes they go back and forth.

00;10;15;21 - 00;10;18;35
So there's material in there
that helps them with that.

00;10;18;55 - 00;10;22;33
And another one is
why does my partner harm me?

00;10;22;43 - 00;10;24;20
Why does my partner hurt us?

00;10;24;20 - 00;10;29;29
And looking at that's when I begin
to look at those four assumptions

00;10;29;34 - 00;10;30;40
that I mentioned.

00;10;30;40 - 00;10;34;03
I begin
to get into the domination paradigm

00;10;34;03 - 00;10;38;17
and how that's where their partners
behavior is coming from,

00;10;38;17 - 00;10;40;21
why they behave the way they do.

00;10;40;21 - 00;10;43;48
They say they love you
and we don't get into, well, no,

00;10;43;48 - 00;10;44;36
they don't love you,

00;10;44;36 - 00;10;47;47
but you certainly don't like
how they're loving you, you know?

00;10;47;47 - 00;10;53;41
But this is why. From there I also give
I answer

00;10;53;48 - 00;10;56;47
what does it look like in other ways
because oftentimes survivors

00;10;56;47 - 00;11;00;18
would come in and they would say,
well this thing is going on at work.

00;11;00;18 - 00;11;01;33
And it feels really crummy.

00;11;01;33 - 00;11;04;38
It kind of feels like
what my partner was doing, you know,

00;11;04;38 - 00;11;07;38
so there can be workplace
abuse that happens.

00;11;07;43 - 00;11;09;10
It can happen.

00;11;09;10 - 00;11;13;05
Domination happens certainly
in our political and economic institutions

00;11;13;29 - 00;11;17;28
in the form of racism,
you know, all kinds of other oppressions.

00;11;17;48 - 00;11;22;55
And so helping them to see that there's
this there's this one, this domination

00;11;22;55 - 00;11;27;55
paradigm is really driving all of that
and helping them to see that

00;11;28;31 - 00;11;31;29
it's not about them,
not to take it personally,

00;11;31;29 - 00;11;36;23
but also to give them, ways
that they can empower themselves.

00;11;36;23 - 00;11;39;10
Like coping strategies
for dealing with it.

00;11;40;57 - 00;11;42;06
I also

00;11;42;06 - 00;11;46;00
look at so how can I go forward,
you know, okay, this is happening.

00;11;46;00 - 00;11;47;03
I don't like this.

00;11;47;03 - 00;11;50;03
They make their decisions
about what they're going to do about it.

00;11;50;03 - 00;11;54;27
But how can I go forward in my life
and not just be stuck on

00;11;55;14 - 00;11;58;21
talking about what's happened,
what happened to my abusive relationship,

00;11;58;37 - 00;12;04;06
and it identifies many I call them
roads in the book, but roads that they take

00;12;04;06 - 00;12;08;05
because they learned in their families
or in their society

00;12;08;25 - 00;12;11;25
that somehow, for instance,

00;12;11;52 - 00;12;13;42
if they’re a woman

00;12;13;42 - 00;12;16;56
that they need to be
totally responsible for the relationship,

00;12;17;30 - 00;12;20;14
that they need to take care
of other people, that they can't

00;12;20;14 - 00;12;23;19
take care of themselves,
that somehow that's seen as selfish.

00;12;23;35 - 00;12;26;26
So that was a lesson or it could be,

00;12;27;26 - 00;12;30;26
oh, I need to take care of

00;12;30;36 - 00;12;34;19
this abusive person because
look at what happened in their lives.

00;12;34;19 - 00;12;37;53
And they may have had things
that were really very tragedies

00;12;37;53 - 00;12;40;26
that might have harmed them
when they grew up,

00;12;40;26 - 00;12;43;20
but that doesn't
excuse their behavior now.

00;12;43;20 - 00;12;48;56
And so looking at that road or looking at,
why is their self-esteem

00;12;48;56 - 00;12;51;56
not so good,
so different roads that they take

00;12;52;12 - 00;12;56;17
and then ending with really helping them
to look at,

00;12;56;17 - 00;12;59;28
how they can heal, beginning that
healing journey.

00;12;59;47 - 00;13;00;45
Great.

00;13;00;46 - 00;13;03;46
You are listening
to the Power of Partnership podcast.

00;13;03;57 - 00;13;07;32
We hope you are enjoying today's episode
and you will consider

00;13;07;32 - 00;13;10;00
joining our family of sponsors.

00;13;10;00 - 00;13;12;52
Or you can help us attract sponsors

00;13;12;52 - 00;13;16;50
by downloading,
following or subscribing to the series

00;13;17;17 - 00;13;21;41
and liking and rating each episode
you view on YouTube.

00;13;22;35 - 00;13;24;55
We also would love to hear from you,
including

00;13;24;55 - 00;13;27;55
if you have a partnership story
that you would like to share.

00;13;28;20 - 00;13;32;12
Reach out to us
at center@partnershipway.org.

00;13;32;55 - 00;13;35;50
And now back to today's episode.

00;13;35;56 - 00;13;39;27
So the target
audience for the book is survivors, people

00;13;39;30 - 00;13;44;25
or people who are, currently wondering
if they're, in a coercive,

00;13;44;55 - 00;13;48;23
relationship with coercive control
taking place, or is it

00;13;48;23 - 00;13;52;22
for also equally for professionals
working with those individuals?

00;13;52;22 - 00;13;54;56
It is also for professionals
working with those.

00;13;54;56 - 00;13;58;12
I've had many therapists say
that they found it very valuable in terms

00;13;58;12 - 00;14;01;13
of their own understanding,
but also there are reflection

00;14;01;13 - 00;14;05;19
opportunities throughout the book,
so that this is heavy stuff.

00;14;05;33 - 00;14;06;33
Okay.

00;14;06;33 - 00;14;09;25
So it's like you don't deal with this.

00;14;09;25 - 00;14;11;08
You don't just flip over a new leaf.

00;14;11;08 - 00;14;13;17
That's just not how change happens.

00;14;13;17 - 00;14;17;18
And so there are pauses for people
to kind of consider different things

00;14;17;18 - 00;14;20;18
and how it applies.
in their relationship.

00;14;20;49 - 00;14;25;00
And that's helpful for, for therapists
to hear about.

00;14;25;00 - 00;14;26;39
It's also really helpful for people

00;14;26;39 - 00;14;30;33
who are concerned about somebody learning
more about what they're facing

00;14;31;49 - 00;14;32;23
is very,

00;14;32;23 - 00;14;35;46
very important so that they don't
mistakenly get into,

00;14;36;24 - 00;14;39;05
asking questions like, well,
why don't you just leave

00;14;39;05 - 00;14;41;40
and that kind of thing
that isn't helpful at all.

00;14;41;40 - 00;14;42;51
Nice.

00;14;42;51 - 00;14;46;59
So can you share now a bit
about the programs that you're currently

00;14;46;59 - 00;14;50;58
working with, either with survivors
or other professional therapists?

00;14;52;19 - 00;14;53;28
Definitely.

00;14;53;28 - 00;14;56;56
So, of course, doing
a lot of social media,

00;14;56;56 - 00;14;59;56
work getting the word out about my book
that I mentioned.

00;15;01;05 - 00;15;03;00
So Coercive Relationships

00;15;03;00 - 00;15;08;43
and I the other big thing
that I do is work with therapists on

00;15;08;43 - 00;15;11;48
how to be effective in terms of doing

00;15;11;59 - 00;15;14;59
work with survivors of, partner abuse.

00;15;15;10 - 00;15;17;36
And so I do workshops,

00;15;17;36 - 00;15;22;50
and currently I've done courses
through a university, and I hope

00;15;22;50 - 00;15;26;40
to actually develop a virtual course
that people could do on their own.

00;15;26;42 - 00;15;28;59
That's something that's
kind of in the works.

00;15;28;59 - 00;15;31;51
The other thing I do
is I publish a monthly blog.

00;15;31;51 - 00;15;34;57
So those who are interested in learning
more or getting support

00;15;35;25 - 00;15;37;26
could subscribe to my monthly blog.

00;15;37;26 - 00;15;40;13
And I think you'll have the links
for that. Yes.

00;15;40;13 - 00;15;44;20
And there's also a newsletter where
I include resources that are helpful.

00;15;44;42 - 00;15;48;46
Not just to survivors, but like to
professionals who are working with them.

00;15;49;32 - 00;15;54;26
And I'm currently also working
on refining my group curriculum

00;15;54;26 - 00;15;58;26
because groups are so powerful,
they're so empowering to people.

00;15;59;17 - 00;16;02;53
And so I want to encourage
more of those kinds of groups going.

00;16;03;06 - 00;16;05;53
And so I'm refining that curriculum
so that I can get that out

00;16;05;53 - 00;16;08;03
to those therapists who are interested.

00;16;08;03 - 00;16;12;00
I wonder if there's anything else
you'd like to share about the impact

00;16;12;00 - 00;16;16;14
of Riane Eisler’s work on you,
or the survivors with whom you work with?

00;16;18;13 - 00;16;22;33
Yes. Well, therapy is a process,

00;16;23;15 - 00;16;27;05
and certainly in therapy
we use things we really nurture.

00;16;27;05 - 00;16;27;50
We care.

00;16;27;50 - 00;16;31;08
We use a lot of what
the partnership paradigm is about.

00;16;31;47 - 00;16;34;33
And as we do that work,

00;16;34;33 - 00;16;37;38
you can see people really lighting up,

00;16;38;43 - 00;16;40;47
you know, connecting,

00;16;40;47 - 00;16;45;47
figuring out that, that stopping
apologizing for everything that they do,

00;16;45;47 - 00;16;48;47
that really isn't anything
that they have control over.

00;16;50;02 - 00;16;52;51
And, one,

00;16;52;51 - 00;16;56;36
one woman that I can think of later in
my career was an older woman.

00;16;57;08 - 00;17;00;52
And many times people feel like, well,
when they're older, they've been in an

00;17;00;52 - 00;17;04;49
abusive relationship for so many times,
they're probably not going to leave.

00;17;05;18 - 00;17;09;30
But what I saw along the way,
is this woman who took in information

00;17;09;30 - 00;17;11;25
about what coercive control was,

00;17;11;25 - 00;17;14;44
identified that with
what was happening with her partner.

00;17;15;01 - 00;17;17;21
And and she started looking at,

00;17;18;51 - 00;17;20;35
how she could cope with that.

00;17;20;35 - 00;17;23;26
And, and
what did she want to do with that?

00;17;23;26 - 00;17;27;23
She ended up leaving and
it was so beautiful to see that pathway.

00;17;27;23 - 00;17;28;57
It couldn't happen right away.

00;17;28;57 - 00;17;31;57
And initially she came in saying

00;17;32;45 - 00;17;37;09
she didn't call it coercive control,
but she had a sense that it wasn't okay.

00;17;37;09 - 00;17;38;59
And and she just felt beaten down

00;17;38;59 - 00;17;42;28
and hopeless about being able
to change her life situation.

00;17;42;51 - 00;17;45;46
And she'd been in therapy before,
and the therapist

00;17;45;46 - 00;17;49;03
seemed to think that she should leave,
and she wasn't ready for that.

00;17;49;30 - 00;17;52;57
And so as she was able
to walk her own path

00;17;53;19 - 00;17;58;19
through that, and with the information
about what are healthy relationships

00;17;58;19 - 00;18;02;31
and that she is not responsible
for her husband's behavior

00;18;02;55 - 00;18;05;47
and that, it is abuse.

00;18;05;47 - 00;18;09;44
Well, I mean, she would kind of question
that then that really empowered her.

00;18;10;51 - 00;18;12;30
Nice.

00;18;12;30 - 00;18;13;50
Thank you.

00;18;13;50 - 00;18;18;25
So for our listeners and viewers,
I will be sharing all of the resources

00;18;18;25 - 00;18;22;53
that Jennifer has mentioned
during today's episode in the show notes.

00;18;23;18 - 00;18;26;52
And along with,
of course, the link to the Center

00;18;26;52 - 00;18;31;09
for Partnership Systems, where
you can always dig deeper into Riane

00;18;31;11 - 00;18;36;33
Eisler’s cultural transformation theory,
the domination partnership social lens

00;18;36;33 - 00;18;39;58
continuum,
and of course, the four cornerstones

00;18;39;58 - 00;18;45;38
that really are those levers for change
in all societies of childhood and family,

00;18;46;07 - 00;18;49;26
gender, economics, and narratives

00;18;49;26 - 00;18;52;26
and stories that we've been speaking about
a bit today.

00;18;53;34 - 00;18;55;28
So, Jennifer, I wonder

00;18;55;28 - 00;18;58;51
before we close,
if you have any final words

00;18;58;51 - 00;19;01;55
that you would like to share
with our audience members,

00;19;02;27 - 00;19;04;02
I do,

00;19;04;02 - 00;19;07;02
so we all can help heal the world

00;19;07;09 - 00;19;10;09
through our partnership values.

00;19;10;45 - 00;19;16;11
And if you are a person who knows
someone who has experienced

00;19;16;11 - 00;19;19;10
or you think they might have experienced
intimate partner abuse,

00;19;19;25 - 00;19;22;48
I really encourage you to know
that listening to them,

00;19;23;36 - 00;19;26;36
offering them understanding, empathy,

00;19;27;06 - 00;19;30;12
asking questions

00;19;30;28 - 00;19;34;13
including how can I
is there anything I can do for you?

00;19;34;13 - 00;19;36;35
Or, you know, how can I best help you?

00;19;36;35 - 00;19;40;11
And what you may hear
from them is just listening.

00;19;41;14 - 00;19;43;11
Do not ever undervalue

00;19;43;11 - 00;19;46;46
that in our society,
because when we are heard,

00;19;47;24 - 00;19;53;22
when we are recognized as 
 worthy human beings, you know,

00;19;53;22 - 00;19;57;03
because that's what we communicate
when we listen and we empathize.

00;19;57;30 - 00;20;00;28
That is so empowering

00;20;00;28 - 00;20;03;44
that’s a wonderful beginning. So frequently

00;20;03;44 - 00;20;04;49
and as a therapist,

00;20;04;49 - 00;20;07;51
sometimes I would feel a little helpless
too when there was something

00;20;07;51 - 00;20;11;25
that I was concerned about
that was going on, but just know

00;20;11;25 - 00;20;14;57
to kind of sit on that,
that uncertainty about it

00;20;15;35 - 00;20;18;43
and instead
don't try to offer to solve it for them,

00;20;19;05 - 00;20;23;29
but instead ask questions, ask
what can I do and offer them say,

00;20;23;29 - 00;20;26;15
do you know about this?
Do you know about that?

00;20;26;15 - 00;20;28;10
Instead of you should.

00;20;28;10 - 00;20;31;22
And, I think we were talking
about earlier about a shirt

00;20;31;22 - 00;20;35;32
that I had that says, you should never
should don't shouldn’t a survivor.

00;20;35;32 - 00;20;39;19
And so you never want to do that
because you don't know,

00;20;39;28 - 00;20;40;54
you haven't walked in their shoes.

00;20;40;54 - 00;20;42;38
You don't know what they're facing.

00;20;42;38 - 00;20;47;13
They know what is safe for them to do
and what they're ready to do.

00;20;47;13 - 00;20;50;38
And so what you can do
is listen and support them.

00;20;51;05 - 00;20;56;15
And that is really you're
using the respect, the care, the nurturing

00;20;56;40 - 00;20;58;12
that is what partnership

00;20;58;12 - 00;21;01;15
is all about. Partnership
paradigm, right?

00;21;01;39 - 00;21;04;40
So and I think that carrying
that into the world,

00;21;04;40 - 00;21;08;00
whether it's to
somebody experiencing abuse

00;21;08;00 - 00;21;11;56
or whether that's just everybody, that's
how we're going to heal the world.

00;21;12;41 - 00;21;14;14
Lovely. Thank you so much.