Undoing Coercive Control with Kate Amber

In this episode, we dive into the critical topic of coercive control with expert Kate Amber. Kate sheds light on how coercive control manifests in various systems, particularly within family court structures. Kate also introduces the "Quicksand Model," an accessible and practical tool designed to make the invisible ties of coercive control more visible. 

SHOWNOTES:

End Coercive Control, USA (https://endcoercivecontrolusa.com/about)

Nurturing Our Humanity: How Domination and Partnership Shape Our Brains, Lives, and Future, Riane Eisler and Douglas P. Fry (https://centerforpartnership.org/nurturing-our-humanity-how-domination-and-partnership-shape-our-brains-lives-and-future/)

Coercive Control: How Men Entrap Women in Personal Life, Evan Stark (https://www.amazon.com/Coercive-Control-Personal-Interpersonal-Violence/dp/0195384040)

Coercive Relationships: Find the Answers You Seek, Jennifer Parker (https://www.amazon.com/Coercive-Relationships-Find-Answers-Seek/dp/1684336678)

The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future, Riane Eisler (https://centerforpartnership.org/resources/books/the-chalice-and-the-blade-our-history-our-future/)

The Power of Partnership: Seven Relationships that will Change Your Life, Riane Eisler (https://centerforpartnership.org/resources/books/the-power-of-partnership/)

Center for Partnership Systems (https://centerforpartnership.org/)

center@partnershipway.org

Center for Partnership "Join Us" email link  

Resilience, Rising Appalachia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx17RvPMaQ8

Transcript

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Welcome to the Power of

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Partnership Podcast.
I’m Riane Eisler

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President of the Center
for Partnerships Systems.

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This podcast brings
you voices

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from the Partnership
movement.

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People using partnership
practices

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to build a world
that values caring,

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nature
and shared prosperity.

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The Power of Partnership
Podcast is hosted

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by Cherri Jacobs
Pruitt, a health

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policy and Partnership
scholar.

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Today, Cherri interviews
Kate Amber,

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founder of End Coercive
Control

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USA for part
two of our two part

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series on coercive
control.

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In this episode,
Kate shares

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the promise of partnership
to address coercive

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control in the family
court system.

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And now on to today's

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POP Podcast.

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So welcome,

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Kate, to the Power
of Partnership podcast.

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I am so excited

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to be able

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to have the honor of
interviewing you today.

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Oh, what a wonderful
thing to say.

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I'm thrilled to be here.

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Thank you for having me.

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And I'm also so excited

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that this is

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the first mini series
for the Power

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of Partnership podcast,

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because this is
the second podcast

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devoted specifically
to coercive control.

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Our other episode
devoted

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to the topic of coercive
control features,

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Jennifer Parker
who authored a book on

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coercive control.

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And so we hope you tune

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in to that
episode as well.

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So, Kate,
let's start by.

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you are the chief
executive

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officer of End Coercive
Control USA.

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So let's start by you

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sharing more
about the organization,

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including how it was
founded.

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Sure.

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So, I had been in
an intimate relationship

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that had been,

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really confusing
and painful,

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and I knew

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that it had aspects of
domestic violence in it,

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but there seemed to be
something else,

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and I didn't know what
that was.

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And so I had started
to do

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sort of a deep dive

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in research

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to try to figure out

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what the heck happened
to me.

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And I came across the
term coercive control,

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and I read Evan Stark's

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book on coercive
control.

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And after doing so,
I was like, oh,

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this is spot on
for what I experienced.

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And so,

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because I'd never heard
the term before,

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other people weren't
discussing this term.

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But once I found it,

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I thought, well,

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we really need to raise

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awareness of this
because

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what I experienced
was horrific.

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And I'm sure that
anyone else

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who's gone through

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this has had similarly
bad experiences.

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And so I founded End
Coercive Control USA,

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which I
call ECCUSA for short,

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to help detect,

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intervene in and prevent
coercive control

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in whatever environment
that it shows up

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and ECCUSA works

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with both survivors
and with professionals.

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And on the survivor end

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what we do is we work
mainly with cases

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in the civil, criminal
and Family Court.

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Many of the clients
we have are survivors

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of intimate partner
violence,

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and they're going

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through a custody battle

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with a coercive
controller. And so on

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those cases, I'll do
subject matter

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witness testimony

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or I'll or I'll provide

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an assessment
for coercive control

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to help them
protect themselves

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and their children
in in custody battles.

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And then for
professionals,

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ECCUSA provides
training

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and consulting
to help organizations,

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businesses, nonprofits,

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governmental entities
to be able to detect,

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intervene and prevent
coercive control in

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those environments.
Yeah.

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So ECCUSA was really
created to make

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the invisible

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quicksand of coercive
control visible

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because coercive control
has been

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said to be invisible
in plain sight.

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And there are

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many things that cause
that to happen.

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One of those things is
that many of our systems

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are domination systems.

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And because we were

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raised inside
of a domination system,

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we it's invisible

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that the pieces
of that system

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that are dominating
or oppressing

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are invisible to us

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because we it's just

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sort of the water
in which we swim.

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And that really aligns
with Riane Eisler’s work,

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where she talks
about gender stereotypes

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and how important it is
to address

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issues of domination,
not just in big systems,

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but in little systems

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like in the family,
with children and with,

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and with
the at the micro level,

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with the family
and the mezzo level

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with the organization

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and at the macro
level of society.

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And so,

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so that is what ECCUSA’s
really

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committed to doing
is to reducing

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coercive
control and reducing

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the use

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of domination within
those different areas.

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So let's now dig

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a little deeper

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into those trainings,

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because I know
that you've developed

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an innovative training
model for professionals

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who are working with
individuals

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who may be experiencing
coercive control,

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and you call it
the quicksand model.

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And so can
you share more

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about how you developed
this model?

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Sure. So,

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I was going through

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a situation where
there was a protective

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order in place

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and there had been
protective

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order violations,
and there was a,

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a protective order
violation case pending,

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which had been pending
for more

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more than two years,
almost

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three
years at that point,

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when the
county attorney's office

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advised me
that they planned

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to dismiss the case.

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And, that was very
shocking to me.

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I had been hoping
for a lifetime

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protective order
to come from that case,

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for myself
and hopefully to protect

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my children as well.

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And so but apparently,
because of Covid,

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all these cases
had stacked up

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and the county
attorney's office

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simply couldn't
prosecute them all.

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And so they were,

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this was how they were
going to handle that.

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They were either going
to plead them out

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or they were going to
dismiss them altogether.

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So the stress from that,

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what it
it caused my PTSD,

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which I actually had
complex

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post-traumatic stress
at the time,

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and it caused all of
my symptoms to flare up.

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And I was having
increased panic attacks.

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I was having
increased flashbacks,

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all sorts of

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symptoms that
were really negative and

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distressing.

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And, and the middle
of one night, I woke up.

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It was maybe 1
or 2:00 in the morning,

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and my heart was racing.

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It was pounding
out of my chest.

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I couldn't
catch my breath.

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I was I was just
overwhelmed by this

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feeling of terror
and dread of

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what could happen next.

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Because I felt like
I was being failed

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by the system.

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And it was difficult
enough to deal with

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a coercive controller,
but I but my body

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was responding
to this new threat,

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this systemic

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coercive control that
I was experiencing now

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in the criminal justice

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and family court system.

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And I was,

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I must have been an hour
like that

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with my heart racing
and I couldn't breathe.

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And, and
finally, at some point,

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I thought to

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myself, oh, this must be

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what it feels like
to die in quicksand.

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And at the time,
I wasn't thinking, oh,

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yay, a new name for my
for my training model.

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But that's what
it turned into.

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That was how

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the quicksand
model was born,

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because I wanted
a training model

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that could help

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professionals understand
what the experience

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is like

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from the perspective
of a targeted victim.

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And I felt like that

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that metaphor
communicated that.

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Beautiful.

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Can you share
how the model works?

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Sure. So,

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the model is designed
with individual

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people's
learning styles in mind.

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So it was
specifically created

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so that regardless

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of your learning style,
whether you're visual

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or auditory
or kinesthetic,

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that the training
will work for you

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and it'll work quickly
and easily for you to be

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able to learn this

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really,

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because coercive control
is really complex

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and it's really nuanced.

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But between the metaphor

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and the alliteration

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and the graphics,

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the images that that
we use in the model,

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it is designed to help
professionals

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see coercive control
that has been hidden

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in plain sight
before their very eyes,

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and it helps them
to be able to see that.

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And it makes

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that invisible, coercive
control visible. And

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is it
only for professionals

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or can individuals
use it as well?

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Well, sure.

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You can use the training
for a lot of

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different things.

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Survivors often

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find it very validating
of their experience.

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The research I did for
my dissertation,

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was with survivors
and professionals,

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and both survivors
and professionals

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found the model
very useful.

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And so survivors often
would use it for to,

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to be validated
for how they

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how they experienced it

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and how they’re experiencing

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it,
especially systemically,

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because that's

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a really shocking part
of coercive control,

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is that once you leave

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the primary coercive
controller,

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all of a sudden
you realize that

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you're being entrapped
by the systems as well,

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and the systems
are using very similar,

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if not the same
tactics against you,

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but that's kind of
the way that that works.

00:12:02:09 - 00:12:03:14
Nice. Yeah.

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So essentially

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the the system is also
some many systems

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can also be seen

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as coercive controllers.

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Absolutely.

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Because well,
so Riane’s book,

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the one that I started
with,

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I listened to Nurturing
Our Humanity, was the

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first book of hers.

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And I listen to that on
audio.

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Did that
while I was running,

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getting my get
my daily endorphins

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and her concept, the
the partnership

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domination continuum

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I just found to be

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absolutely fascinating
and totally applicable

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to the same concepts
within

00:12:44:02 - 00:12:46:18
Evan Stark's coercive
control framework

00:12:46:18 - 00:12:48:17
as well as the quicksand
model.

00:12:48:17 - 00:12:49:04
They're all

00:12:49:04 - 00:12:52:13
they all align very
beautifully together

00:12:52:23 - 00:12:57:00
because the systems
are really designed,

00:12:58:10 - 00:13:01:19
with some domination
concepts.

00:13:01:19 - 00:13:04:10
They've got policies
that are coercive

00:13:04:10 - 00:13:05:15
and controlling,

00:13:05:15 - 00:13:08:17
which is a domination
thought process.

00:13:09:17 - 00:13:12:21
And so once
you try to escape

00:13:12:21 - 00:13:15:06
the primary coercive
controller,

00:13:15:06 - 00:13:16:14
you then are you

00:13:16:14 - 00:13:19:14
then realize that,
okay, law enforcement

00:13:19:14 - 00:13:22:04
maybe isn't really going
to help you.

00:13:22:04 - 00:13:24:03
You might have
a protective order,

00:13:24:03 - 00:13:27:02
but are they going
to enforce it?

00:13:27:09 - 00:13:29:20
They have very different
ideas about

00:13:29:20 - 00:13:33:20
what a violation is from
what a victim sees

00:13:33:20 - 00:13:35:04
as a violation.

00:13:35:04 - 00:13:38:15
There are there's Child
Protective Services

00:13:38:15 - 00:13:41:15
that has coercive and
controlling policies.

00:13:42:01 - 00:13:44:23
For instance,
in my case,

00:13:44:23 - 00:13:47:23
I was told by a CPS
worker

00:13:48:03 - 00:13:51:03
following an assault
by my partner,

00:13:51:16 - 00:13:53:21
that the emergency
protective order

00:13:53:21 - 00:13:56:21
I had gotten, if I did
not go into court

00:13:57:13 - 00:14:00:14
and get that emergency
protective order

00:14:00:14 - 00:14:04:06
extended into a two year
protective order,

00:14:05:00 - 00:14:05:23
then they could take my

00:14:05:23 - 00:14:08:11
children from me for
failing to protect them.

00:14:10:08 - 00:14:12:08
And that's
a very coercive thing

00:14:12:08 - 00:14:16:07
to do to threaten
someone who's already

00:14:16:07 - 00:14:18:05
been victimized
by domestic

00:14:18:05 - 00:14:21:08
violence, domestic abuse
and coercive control.

00:14:21:13 - 00:14:22:14
And then to say, well,

00:14:22:14 - 00:14:25:02
if you don't do what
I say,

00:14:25:02 - 00:14:27:11
then the government's
going to take your kids,

00:14:27:11 - 00:14:28:08
right?

00:14:28:08 - 00:14:29:17
So there are things

00:14:29:17 - 00:14:32:17
like that throughout
the system and, and

00:14:33:20 - 00:14:35:22
targeted
victims of coercive

00:14:35:22 - 00:14:38:22
control run into those
over and over again.

00:14:38:22 - 00:14:39:22
And we start to

00:14:39:22 - 00:14:42:22
see that,
oh, this is a lot bigger

00:14:43:07 - 00:14:46:07
than one person doing
harm.

00:14:47:00 - 00:14:50:19
There are there's
this domination mindset

00:14:51:17 - 00:14:54:07
in all of these systems.

00:14:54:07 - 00:14:58:20
And it's not 100% right
systems are not 100%

00:14:59:03 - 00:15:01:02
coercive
and controlling,

00:15:01:02 - 00:15:03:21
but there are aspects
that are

00:15:03:21 - 00:15:06:09
and those are the pieces
we need to root out.

00:15:06:09 - 00:15:09:21
And and find ways
to shift

00:15:10:04 - 00:15:12:19
from the domination
side of the continuum

00:15:12:19 - 00:15:14:12
to the partnership side

00:15:14:12 - 00:15:15:11
so that we can more

00:15:15:11 - 00:15:18:21
effectively protect
those who are innocent

00:15:19:07 - 00:15:22:03
and hold those who are
guilty accountable

00:15:22:03 - 00:15:23:15
for their actions.

00:15:23:15 - 00:15:23:17
within each image.

00:15:23:17 - 00:15:26:11
And so the,
value in these images

00:15:26:11 - 00:15:27:17
is incredibly rich.

00:15:27:17 - 00:15:30:23
You get you
get like a full story

00:15:31:14 - 00:15:33:11
in the one picture.

00:15:33:11 - 00:15:36:16
And it it's a great way
to be able

00:15:36:16 - 00:15:38:08
to remember
the concepts,

00:15:39:14 - 00:15:41:06
and to
learn them quickly.

00:15:41:06 - 00:15:42:14
So, I'd love

00:15:42:14 - 00:15:45:14
to show you an image
if you'd like.

00:15:45:15 - 00:15:47:10
I have a favorite image
from the model

00:15:47:10 - 00:15:48:15
that I'd love to show
for you.

00:15:48:15 - 00:15:50:04
And explain

00:15:50:04 - 00:15:51:17
kind of how
that works is

00:15:51:17 - 00:15:52:22
what do you think
of that?

00:15:52:22 - 00:15:54:13
I think
that sounds beautiful.

00:15:54:13 - 00:15:57:15
And so for our viewers
who are going to be

00:15:57:15 - 00:16:00:02
watching
this on YouTube,

00:16:00:02 - 00:16:01:14
you'll be able
to see this.

00:16:01:14 - 00:16:04:10
And for our listeners,

00:16:04:10 - 00:16:05:17
Kate,
just if you can just

00:16:05:17 - 00:16:07:17
kind of share as much,

00:16:07:17 - 00:16:10:09
as you can
about what our viewers

00:16:10:09 - 00:16:11:17
will be looking at,

00:16:11:17 - 00:16:12:08
so that they'll

00:16:12:08 - 00:16:14:05
be able to benefit
from it as well.

00:16:49:09 - 00:16:52:09
So okay,
so this particular image

00:16:52:09 - 00:16:55:09
shows a coercive
controller

00:16:55:18 - 00:16:58:10
and his targeted victim

00:16:58:10 - 00:17:01:13
in an environment
where he is using,

00:17:02:06 - 00:17:05:20
three tactics
of coercive control

00:17:06:08 - 00:17:11:01
in order to create
a mirage to hide

00:17:11:01 - 00:17:14:01
the dangerous quicksand
behind it.

00:17:14:01 - 00:17:16:08
And so in the image
itself,

00:17:16:08 - 00:17:18:15
you can see
the coercive controller

00:17:18:15 - 00:17:21:21
he has his arm around
his targeted victim,

00:17:22:01 - 00:17:24:17
who is like
his girlfriend.

00:17:24:17 - 00:17:28:03
She has a bouquet
of flowers in her hand

00:17:29:00 - 00:17:30:01
and they are.

00:17:30:01 - 00:17:32:02
He is pointing at

00:17:32:02 - 00:17:33:11
this billboard

00:17:33:11 - 00:17:35:12
that is in front
of the two of them

00:17:35:12 - 00:17:39:12
that has this scene
of a beautiful mansion.

00:17:40:10 - 00:17:43:08
Probably out
on a lake somewhere

00:17:43:08 - 00:17:46:10
that is just gorgeous
and has cars and that,

00:17:46:10 - 00:17:48:06
you know, fancy cars
in the driveway.

00:17:48:06 - 00:17:50:06
And it's a big,
beautiful mansion.

00:17:50:06 - 00:17:53:05
And then behind
the billboard

00:17:53:06 - 00:17:56:14
is the quicksand,
which is hiding

00:17:56:14 - 00:18:00:09
in plain sight,
which she cannot see

00:18:00:15 - 00:18:03:17
because of the way
that he has obscured

00:18:04:05 - 00:18:06:05
her view.
He is intentionally

00:18:06:05 - 00:18:07:14
pointing
at the billboard

00:18:08:17 - 00:18:10:00
so that
she's not looking

00:18:10:00 - 00:18:11:15
at the quicksand behind.

00:18:11:15 - 00:18:12:01
And so

00:18:12:01 - 00:18:15:01
behind this billboard,
you can see quicksand,

00:18:15:04 - 00:18:19:05
and then you also see
three signs,

00:18:19:09 - 00:18:22:09
sort of hazard
signs in red

00:18:22:17 - 00:18:28:06
with the D's, the E's
and the F's on them.

00:18:28:18 - 00:18:32:09
And those are the signs,

00:18:32:09 - 00:18:35:18
 of coercive control
in the quicksand model.

00:18:36:04 - 00:18:39:16
And I won't go into the
details of the signs,

00:18:39:16 - 00:18:41:13
but there are the D's

00:18:41:13 - 00:18:44:18
which are like double
standards, double binds,

00:18:45:04 - 00:18:46:01
double speak.

00:18:46:01 - 00:18:47:06
There's
several other ones.

00:18:47:06 - 00:18:49:04
And then we have
the E's and the F's,

00:18:49:04 - 00:18:50:19
which are the E's

00:18:50:19 - 00:18:53:19
are the goals of the
coercive controller.

00:18:53:21 - 00:18:57:01
And the F's are the way
the means.

00:18:57:10 - 00:19:00:22
So the F’s are fear
force and fraud.

00:19:01:08 - 00:19:02:23
So those are the means

00:19:02:23 - 00:19:04:23
that the coercive
controller uses.

00:19:04:23 - 00:19:07:23
And then the E's are
ensnare,

00:19:07:23 - 00:19:11:02
entrap, enslave,
exploit,

00:19:11:15 - 00:19:14:08
prevent escape
through escalation.

00:19:14:08 - 00:19:15:14
And then a couple more

00:19:15:14 - 00:19:17:14
that happen
post separation.

00:19:17:14 - 00:19:19:03
So those are the signs

00:19:19:03 - 00:19:20:07
that are hiding back
there

00:19:20:07 - 00:19:21:23
behind that billboard.

00:19:21:23 - 00:19:25:02
And so this image
is used

00:19:25:09 - 00:19:28:08
to describe the Mirage.

00:19:28:11 - 00:19:31:11
And the mirage is made
up of three tactics.

00:19:31:13 - 00:19:35:13
The three tactics are
manipulative kindness,

00:19:35:21 - 00:19:39:10
which most people know
of as love bombing.

00:19:39:11 - 00:19:40:01
You may have heard

00:19:40:01 - 00:19:45:10
the term love bombing,
where they use love to

00:19:46:20 - 00:19:48:13
give you
the impression that

00:19:48:13 - 00:19:51:18
you are soulmates,
that you are perfect

00:19:51:18 - 00:19:53:11
for each other.

00:19:53:11 - 00:19:55:06
And they shower you

00:19:55:06 - 00:19:57:09
with gifts
like the flowers

00:19:57:09 - 00:19:59:21
that she's holding
in the image.

00:19:59:21 - 00:20:02:21
So love bombing,
mirroring.

00:20:02:22 - 00:20:06:01
Mirroring is
when you sort of mirror

00:20:06:01 - 00:20:09:10
another person's
mannerisms,

00:20:09:19 - 00:20:13:03
tone of voice,
vocal pacing,

00:20:13:20 - 00:20:16:20
their values,
their beliefs.

00:20:16:22 - 00:20:19:22
It's a way of creating
rapport with someone.

00:20:20:07 - 00:20:23:13
And so they use love
bombing to make you feel

00:20:23:13 - 00:20:26:13
like you're in love
with each other.

00:20:26:13 - 00:20:27:21
They use,

00:20:27:21 - 00:20:29:07
and to
and to just shower

00:20:29:07 - 00:20:31:10
you with gifts
and make you feel.

00:20:31:10 - 00:20:34:22
Make you feel so valued
and so adored.

00:20:35:04 - 00:20:37:23
They use mirroring
to build rapport

00:20:37:23 - 00:20:38:22
so that you feel like

00:20:38:22 - 00:20:41:22
you're really connected,
like you're soulmates.

00:20:41:22 - 00:20:44:05
And then they use
future faking.

00:20:44:05 - 00:20:46:22
And that's what the
billboard represents.

00:20:46:22 - 00:20:51:05
They create this vision
of a perfect future

00:20:51:05 - 00:20:53:01
that you're
going to have together.

00:20:53:01 - 00:20:54:14
And of course,
the coercive controller

00:20:54:14 - 00:20:55:11
has no intention

00:20:55:11 - 00:20:57:20
of ever fulfilling
on that promise.

00:20:57:20 - 00:20:59:13
Like it's not real.

00:20:59:13 - 00:21:00:15
It's an illusion.

00:21:00:15 - 00:21:02:18
Which is why I call
this whole thing

00:21:02:18 - 00:21:03:20
the Mirage.

00:21:04:20 - 00:21:06:17
Because
those three tactics

00:21:06:17 - 00:21:08:20
create this mirage.

00:21:08:20 - 00:21:11:22
It obscures
the dangerous quicksand

00:21:11:22 - 00:21:15:16
behind it,
and it has the targeted

00:21:15:16 - 00:21:18:19
victim
feeling really connected

00:21:19:12 - 00:21:23:18
and like they found
their perfect soulmate

00:21:23:21 - 00:21:26:01
with this coercive
controller.

00:21:26:01 - 00:21:29:09
And it is this mirage
that then makes it

00:21:29:12 - 00:21:33:04
very difficult later on
for the targeted victim

00:21:33:04 - 00:21:34:21
to see

00:21:34:21 - 00:21:35:11
once the

00:21:35:11 - 00:21:38:18
course of controllers
tactics shift from these

00:21:38:18 - 00:21:42:00
sort of love bomb
tactics to the more

00:21:43:05 - 00:21:47:01
derogatory, demeaning,
isolating

00:21:47:09 - 00:21:50:07
and cruel tactics
that will come later.

00:21:50:07 - 00:21:52:11
So, Kate,
what about resources

00:21:52:11 - 00:21:54:00
for our listeners
and viewers

00:21:54:00 - 00:21:56:08
who want to learn more
about coercive control

00:21:56:08 - 00:21:58:13
and your quicksand
model?

00:21:58:13 - 00:22:01:03
But also for our
listeners and viewers

00:22:01:03 - 00:22:04:02
who may be experiencing
coercive control

00:22:04:02 - 00:22:06:05
or know someone who is.

00:22:07:16 - 00:22:08:13
Absolutely.

00:22:08:13 - 00:22:14:13
So the ECCUSA website
has tons of resources.

00:22:15:05 - 00:22:16:21
So if you want resources

00:22:16:21 - 00:22:18:23
other than the quicksand
model,

00:22:18:23 - 00:22:22:16
there's a resources page
on ECCUSA’s website,

00:22:22:16 - 00:22:26:04
which is
EndCoerciveControlUSA.com 

00:22:26:23 - 00:22:29:08
and you click
on the resources tab

00:22:29:08 - 00:22:30:04
and you'll be able

00:22:30:04 - 00:22:32:10
to find all sorts
of resources,

00:22:32:10 - 00:22:34:16
regardless
of the context

00:22:34:16 - 00:22:35:07
in which

00:22:35:07 - 00:22:37:09
you are experiencing
coercive control.

00:22:37:09 - 00:22:38:04
So whether

00:22:38:04 - 00:22:40:15
you're experiencing it
in human trafficking,

00:22:40:15 - 00:22:45:03
whether you are dealing
with a gang or extreme

00:22:45:17 - 00:22:48:15
violence from like a
violent extremist group,

00:22:48:15 - 00:22:50:08
or if you're in a cult,

00:22:50:08 - 00:22:52:23
any domestic abuse,
any environment where

00:22:52:23 - 00:22:55:03
you might experience
coercive control,

00:22:55:03 - 00:22:55:16
there's you're going to

00:22:55:16 - 00:22:59:02
find resources to help
on that resources page.

00:22:59:17 - 00:23:03:00
And there's also lots
of links to research

00:23:03:14 - 00:23:05:23
from other folks
in the

00:23:05:23 - 00:23:08:11
field
who work with,

00:23:09:01 - 00:23:11:07
and study and research
coercive control.

00:23:11:07 - 00:23:12:21
You're going to find

00:23:12:21 - 00:23:15:21
research
links from those folks.

00:23:15:21 - 00:23:17:04
And then if you want

00:23:17:04 - 00:23:18:19
to learn about
the quicksand model,

00:23:18:19 - 00:23:21:07
there
is a link, the QSM 

00:23:22:06 - 00:23:24:04
training link model.

00:23:24:04 - 00:23:25:22
On that same website,

00:23:25:22 - 00:23:26:21
you'll be able
to read up

00:23:26:21 - 00:23:29:03
on the quicksand model.

00:23:29:03 - 00:23:30:07
There are a couple links

00:23:30:07 - 00:23:33:08
there to some courses
that you can purchase

00:23:33:08 - 00:23:34:06
if you'd like.

00:23:34:06 - 00:23:37:03
There's
a introductory course

00:23:37:03 - 00:23:41:13
which has the actual
videos that I used

00:23:41:23 - 00:23:43:15
for the research.

00:23:43:15 - 00:23:45:00
And if you'd like a more

00:23:45:00 - 00:23:47:09
in-depth course,
there's a six hour

00:23:47:09 - 00:23:49:16
training course
for professionals

00:23:49:16 - 00:23:51:00
that you can also

00:23:51:00 - 00:23:52:22
click on there
on that quicksand

00:23:52:22 - 00:23:54:02
model training page.

00:23:54:02 - 00:23:57:05
And then as far as
if you are a survivor

00:23:57:16 - 00:23:59:19
who has is

00:23:59:19 - 00:24:01:09
you're
in a custody case,

00:24:01:09 - 00:24:03:11
or maybe you're in a,

00:24:03:11 - 00:24:04:12
a civil suit,

00:24:04:12 - 00:24:06:01
or maybe there are
criminal charges

00:24:06:01 - 00:24:08:16
either filed against you
or someone else,

00:24:08:16 - 00:24:11:15
and you need someone
to be a subject

00:24:11:15 - 00:24:12:21
matter witness

00:24:12:21 - 00:24:14:09
or a case
specific witness

00:24:14:09 - 00:24:15:12
in your case,

00:24:15:12 - 00:24:18:03
you can click
on the survivors tab

00:24:18:03 - 00:24:19:13
and that will take you.

00:24:19:13 - 00:24:21:22
You can click
for a free consultation

00:24:21:22 - 00:24:23:00
and you can get a 20
minute free

00:24:23:00 - 00:24:26:04
consultation directly
with me to talk about

00:24:26:04 - 00:24:29:04
how I might be able
to assist you,

00:24:29:04 - 00:24:31:14
and see if I'd be a good
fit for your team.

00:24:31:14 - 00:24:32:00
And then

00:24:32:00 - 00:24:33:18
from the
professional side,

00:24:33:18 - 00:24:36:13
if you have an
organization or a group

00:24:36:13 - 00:24:39:18
or a business
or a church or anywhere

00:24:40:08 - 00:24:44:05
where someone is being
coercively controlling

00:24:44:22 - 00:24:47:14
and you
need assistance in,

00:24:48:14 - 00:24:50:15
raising the awareness
of the other folks

00:24:50:15 - 00:24:52:09
in that environment,

00:24:52:09 - 00:24:55:04
finding ways
to detect it, intervene

00:24:55:04 - 00:24:56:17
and prevent it in either

00:24:56:17 - 00:24:59:02
your workplace,
your group

00:24:59:02 - 00:25:02:02
or whatever,
organization you're in.

00:25:02:03 - 00:25:04:12
Then you can click on
the professionals tab,

00:25:04:12 - 00:25:06:09
and you can also get
a free consultation

00:25:06:09 - 00:25:08:08
as a professional
to talk about having me

00:25:08:08 - 00:25:11:13
come as a speaker
or a trainer or,

00:25:11:23 - 00:25:14:08
or even to come in
and assess

00:25:14:08 - 00:25:15:21
your environment
and help

00:25:15:21 - 00:25:18:05
you put together a plan
for addressing it.

00:25:18:07 - 00:25:21:23
So for our listeners,
I will be adding

00:25:22:02 - 00:25:25:23
links to the books
that Kate has referenced

00:25:25:23 - 00:25:29:05
as well, of course,
to her website

00:25:29:05 - 00:25:32:02
and the resources
that she just spoke of

00:25:32:02 - 00:25:35:02
on the show notes
for today's episode,

00:25:35:04 - 00:25:36:14
along with the link

00:25:36:14 - 00:25:38:12
to the Center
for Partnership Systems,

00:25:38:12 - 00:25:41:11
where you can always
dig deeper into courses

00:25:41:14 - 00:25:45:02
and, resources to learn
more about Riane

00:25:45:02 - 00:25:47:08
Eisler’s
cultural transformation

00:25:47:08 - 00:25:50:08
theory, her partnership
domination continuum,

00:25:51:13 - 00:25:54:04
and a
link so that you can

00:25:54:04 - 00:25:57:04
get added to the Center
for Partnership Systems

00:25:57:04 - 00:26:01:00
email distribution list
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00:26:01:00 - 00:26:04:01
up to date on all of our
activities and events.

00:26:05:13 - 00:26:08:11
So Kate, before
we close today's show,

00:26:08:11 - 00:26:09:19
I wonder if you have any

00:26:09:19 - 00:26:11:17
final words
that you'd like to share

00:26:11:17 - 00:26:13:20
with our listeners
and viewers.

00:26:13:20 - 00:26:16:12
Yeah, I think probably
the the message that

00:26:16:12 - 00:26:19:12
I would want to get out
there is that

00:26:19:12 - 00:26:21:21
it's not just
there's not one thing

00:26:21:21 - 00:26:23:10
that we can do

00:26:23:10 - 00:26:26:10
to prevent
coercive control.

00:26:26:13 - 00:26:27:17
There's
really many different

00:26:27:17 - 00:26:30:15
things that need
to be dealt with,

00:26:30:15 - 00:26:32:07
and a lot of those
things

00:26:32:07 - 00:26:34:06
need to be worked on

00:26:34:06 - 00:26:38:19
from this idea
of moving systems

00:26:38:19 - 00:26:42:15
and organizations and
families and communities

00:26:43:02 - 00:26:46:07
from a domination
mindset,

00:26:46:13 - 00:26:50:01
which is the mindset
of coercive control,

00:26:50:01 - 00:26:53:01
to a more partnership

00:26:53:12 - 00:26:54:18
mindset to

00:26:54:18 - 00:26:57:18
systems
that are cooperative,

00:26:57:23 - 00:27:01:05
that promote liberty
and autonomy

00:27:01:14 - 00:27:04:14
and cooperation and

00:27:05:00 - 00:27:09:00
and and we need to
we need to pass laws

00:27:09:00 - 00:27:11:11
that support that.
We need to create

00:27:11:11 - 00:27:13:07
policies
that support that.

00:27:14:08 - 00:27:14:22
And we need to

00:27:14:22 - 00:27:17:22
promote equitable
and equal systems.

00:27:18:08 - 00:27:21:06
And those things
all need to be worked

00:27:21:06 - 00:27:22:19
on at the same time.

00:27:22:19 - 00:27:25:19
And so I'm doing
my little part, and

00:27:26:05 - 00:27:28:06
I hope that you can do
your little part.

00:27:28:06 - 00:27:29:16
You are doing your part.

00:27:29:16 - 00:27:31:00
Certainly, Cherri

00:27:31:00 - 00:27:33:21
And, and thank you
so much for having me

00:27:33:21 - 00:27:35:14
with you today.

00:27:35:14 - 00:27:37:20
Thank you so much
for being here, Kate.