Badgers Abroad

Episode #8 - Italy with Meg Langie

• UW–Madison International Safety & Security

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In today's episode, we discuss Florence, Italy, with Meg Langie, the Associate Director for Program Management at UW-Madison's International Academic Programs (IAP). IAP is a unit of the International Division and the central study abroad office at UW-Madison. IAP collaborates with academic units across campus to offer safe, accessible, and high-quality study abroad, domestic study away, and international internship opportunities that foster UW-Madison students’ academic, personal, and professional growth. 

Meg has a BS in Communication Studies from UW-River Falls and an MA in Communication Research from Bowling Green State University. During undergraduate and graduate school, Meg studied abroad in multiple locations including Florence. Tune into this episode to learn about Meg's experiences in Italy and how studying abroad helped shape her academic and career goals.

References and resources from the podcast are listed below:

Jeremy Rohrer: All right, welcome to the Badgers Abroad podcast. My name is Jeremy. I'm the Assistant International Safety and Security Director at UW-Madison's International Division and the host of this podcast. Today, I'm joined by a special guest from the International Division, and I'll let her go ahead and introduce herself.

Meg Langie: Hi, I'm Meg Lange. I'm the Associate Director for Program Management in the International Academic Programs Union, which is the study abroad office here on campus.

Jeremy Rohrer: So Meg has made a career, essentially, of study abroad, international travel. But back when you were a student, you studied abroad in Florence.

Meg Langie: Yep, that was one of my study abroad programs. I studied abroad as an undergrad in Scotland and Eastern and Central Europe. And then in grad school, I did Paris and then Florence, Italy, which is what we'll talk about today.

Jeremy Rohrer: So our first question, what inspired you to study abroad in Italy and Florence specifically?

Meg Langie: Sure. Well, when I was in grad school, I was actually looking for a program that would allow me to work and study abroad. That became my career focus after I'd been an undergraduate, study abroad changed my life as an undergraduate. And so I completely refocused my career goals. And once I got to grad school, there was this program that focused on communication and culture. I was in grad school for intercultural communication, so that just was a really good fit. Spending a summer in Italy wasn't too hard of a sell. And it also gave me an opportunity to do some research with the undergraduates on students' perceived impact of study abroad, which ended up being part of my master's thesis.

Jeremy Rohrer: So it was pretty important to both your education and also your career development.

Meg Langie: Absolutely. That was a big motivating factor.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah. So how did you prepare to travel to Italy? Did you work on your language skills, your cultural skills, financial planning, security preparations, anything like that? I'm sure there was a lot.

Meg Langie: All of the above. Yes. Yep. To spend, you know, six weeks in a place where I'm not fluent in Italian was something that I definitely wanted to prepare for. So to prep myself before going, I learned the basic phrases. Hello, goodbye. Thank you. I'd like to order gelato, please.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah.

Meg Langie: You know, those necessary ones for Italy in the summer. But just so I could have some basic communication things. And then this was like pre-smartphone apps. I had a dictionary too that had phrases, phrase books, so I could really function pretty well. They were very patient with me when I had to, you know, read it out phonetically, but we got there. And I found that in Europe, there is an embarrassingly large number of folks who speak English. So, I felt like a dunderhead not having fluency in Italian, but they would often just say, do you want to just talk English? So that was language-wise. Otherwise, I also wanted to get a bit of a crash course in culture. What was different about Italian culture versus American culture? Because I wanted to know how to operate in general, everyday settings. So how do the genders interact together? How do people, you know, do you walk into a store and say hello? Like, what are the things that keep you polite in Italy so that people aren't just offended by you automatically? So, I wanted to be a good guest in their country. I also checked out different safety and security type things. One thing that was silly was that I discovered that there are gigantic tiger mosquitoes in Italy. And I'm so glad I read about that ahead of time because I ended up bringing like netting with me and blue painter's tape that we could use to put screens up in the apartment we had because there were no screens on the window. No air conditioning, no screens, 100-degree temperatures. You had to have the windows open at night, or you'd bake, but if you open the window, you get eaten alive. So, the yards and yards of netting that I picked up at the fabric store and taped up were brilliant. That was just, it was wonderful. All the other students in our program were like covered in mosquito welts, and my roommates and I were like, yeah, we don't have that problem.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah, that's a nice little detail because most people wouldn't think of Italy as a destination where you have to combat mosquitoes. I mean, tropical climates, things like that. Obviously, always prepare for encountering a whole lot of mosquitoes with your mosquito netting and things like that. But I wouldn't think about that for Italy. So that's a good tip.

Meg Langie: Yeah, it was surprising because we'd go to the grocery store and they'd have like right by the checkout all the, you know, anti-mosquito coils that you could plug in or burn or whatever. But we also had the netting.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah, that makes a huge difference. Okay, did you have any concerns or anxieties before you departed? And did you encounter any of these things? And how did you overcome or accommodate them while you were traveling?

Meg Langie: I think a lot of my travel anxieties actually happened earlier, like the first time I studied abroad, because I was the first person in my family who spent any significant amount of time abroad. My dad had been in the Air Force, so he was stationed in Japan, but he didn't have to do any of the logistics for that one. He just went where he was told. With my semester abroad, I remember just wondering, like, how would I handle the money thing? How am I going to handle, even in Scotland, the accent thing? How am I going to get around? How am I going to figure this out? We didn't have buses in the city where I grew up. Like I grew up in a small town. So, just the idea of being on a larger scale. So those were all things that concerned me the first time I went abroad. By the time I went to Italy, I had been abroad on three other programs at that point. So, it almost felt comfortable. Like, I felt like travel became a thing that I could do. And so, there are general anxieties about, okay, again, I don't speak the language. I'm going into a new place. I've only spent a couple of days here before, and I'm going to be here for a whole summer. What's the apartment going to be like? How do I find where my classes are? Because you had to walk across town or take public transportation. So, just kind of some of those logistical things. But what turned out to be the biggest challenge was actually nothing to do with Italy itself and everything to do with roommates.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah.

Meg Langie: So, roommates, I had a great roommate, but we shared an apartment with two other graduate students. And that could become challenging sometimes because we had different ideas on what constituted cleanliness and those kinds of things. So, it's a good idea to have a conversation with your roommates, just like you would when you come here on campus, to sort of figure out like, what do you think about bringing guests back? What do you think about like, how often the bathroom should be cleaned? Those are just nice things because that was about it. That was the only anxiety I had during that summer.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah, that's a great point. You know, the people you're traveling with, you need to have conversations with them about what the expectations are for a lot of things, and make sure that you're all on the same page because you're really going to depend on those people day-to-day to, you know, just go through life and navigate your travel.

Meg Langie: Yeah, they become your family when you're there in a way.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah. All right. So tell us. about a memorable interaction you had with the locals in Italy or in Florence specifically.

Meg Langie: There are actually a ton of tourists in Florence, so we had to look hard to find local people. But we found there are a couple of different folks who stand out to me. One was the gal who worked in the mornings at the cafe where we'd get our cappuccino and our little breakfast roll on the way to class. Her name was Chiara, and she was so excited to become friends with Americans, which was very sweet. But we chatted with her every day because she wanted to practice her English. And so, this gave her an opportunity because she was hoping to study abroad in the US, like we were studying abroad in Italy. So, we were kind of swapping stories and talking about things, and she'd teach us little cultural tidbits and whatnot. So that was a fun one. And then there was this great pottery shop at the end of the block down from my apartment that was run by local Florentine artists who did their own traditional Florentine style ceramics, pots, olive oil dishes, pitchers, and garden decor, and like anything you could make out of terracotta. And it was all hand-painted with these great Florentine designs. And so I stopped in there, and I actually ended up buying some little olive oil dipping dishes for my mom to bring home as a gift. And they were just really great to talk to. talked about the process, talked about where they got their clay, and all of these different things. So that was great. And then 11 years later, when I went back to Florence again, this time as a professional on a site visit for a program, not at this institution, but at another, they were still there. And so, it was nice to go back and revisit them. And my husband and I brought home a big Italian platter with the symbol of Florence painted on it. So, it was just fun.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah, it's interesting that sometimes you make those connections and sometimes those connections can last a lot longer than you anticipated. And you go back to a place, and people are still there. And they're a resource going forward.

Meg Langie: Yes, exactly.

Jeremy Rohrer: If you do plan on working abroad or studying abroad in the future. And like you said, too, at the coffee shop, there's a lot of great little tidbits for culture and life in the city, and even safety and security stuff with local folks that maybe some neighborhoods or different types of transportation or things like that, that may have certain dangers that you may not know as a tourist.

Meg Langie: Pickpocketing was a big one in Florence. That was something that I was not prepared for because that's not something that we've run into a lot of places. I'd read about it, but I'd never really experienced it. And yeah, Chiara was great because she was like, okay, if you go to this market, make sure you do this with your bag or do this and pay attention. So, she gave us some pointers on what to look out for.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah, good tips. So what was your favorite food in Italy or in Florence specifically, and where did you get it?

Meg Langie: All the food.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah.

Meg Langie: All the food in Italy is just absolutely stunningly amazing. There was a restaurant, oh, just a few doors up from my apartment that did traditional Florentine food, and we saved our food budget up enough to be able to go there on our last night, because it was kind of spendy, but totally worth it. The most amazing four-course Italian meal. But everything we had there was awesome. We had our own kitchen, so we did our own cooking. But we'd go down to the market and talk to the people there and find out what produce is in season right now at this moment. What can you do with it? So we tried to cook Italian as well as live Italian while we were there, which made it interesting. But the food in general was just phenomenal. So I decided when I came back that there were just certain things I could no longer live without. They had to be incorporated into my life. I was hoping I could find a restaurant that did good risotto. I was disappointed, at least where I was living in Ohio. Yes, so I had to learn to make it from scratch. So, I do that now. I do like the 45-minute stirring constantly, add the broth thing. I grow a specific pot of Italian herbs on my patio, so I can make Italian food. I've taken a couple of Italian cooking lessons. But yeah, when I first got back, risotto, which is more known in northern Italy, around Florence. Contrary to what people think, Italy is not just pasta. Sure, it's there, but there's so much more to it. There's the polenta, there's the risotto, and there's some pasta. They do excellent with meats and seafoods and things. So Italian food is just... so good. I got home, and I learned risotto, and I threw out my olive oil and got some good stuff because there is a difference. And now I put balsamic vinegar on everything too. In fact, that's we have Italian on the menu for dinner tonight. Oh, yeah, great. But food is one of my absolute favorite parts of culture because it's so different everywhere you go, and it plays such a huge role. And Italian food is definitely tied to Italian culture because there's this whole experience around eating and meals and the people you're with and what time of day you eat and all of those things that it's just a different approach to food than we have here in the US.

Jeremy Rohrer: Oh yeah. So, what was something that you used in Italy that you couldn't have lived without?

Meg Langie: Good walking shoes.

Jeremy Rohrer: Good walking. That's a good one.

Meg Langie: Yeah, Florence is a very walkable city, but like many old cities in Europe, there's a lot of cobblestones, uneven sidewalks, little itty bitty tiny sidewalks, where as you walk by, you feel the bus brush against your shoulder. So, you always have to be aware of what you're doing. But you definitely need good walking shoes, because if you're trying to walk around in heels or something that doesn't have good support. I wouldn't recommend flip-flops. Like you need something with some support under it just to carry you through, so you don't get tired because there's so much to see and there's so much to do, and you don't want your feet to give out on you.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah, and those cobblestone streets are beautiful, but sometimes they can wear on you a little bit if you don't have great shoes.

Meg Langie: Yes, and they're also, it makes it tricky to drag a wheeled suitcase.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yes, oh, that's another big one. Yeah, dragging a wheeled suitcase. Some of those streets can be challenging.

Meg Langie: Big backpacks are the way to go.

Jeremy Rohrer: Backpacker duffel bags. That's my, that's what I always do. So. What was the most significant challenge do you face in Italy, and how did you overcome it? And if there's more than one, tell us about it.

Meg Langie: I think one of the challenges I faced was, again, just based on that language. I so wanted to communicate more fully with the people who were there, and I just didn't have the background for it. I just had my little phrase book and could kind of muddle my way through some things. So, I wish I had learned more ahead of time. Hard to cram Italian on top of grad school, but, you know, like that, if I could go over and do it over again, that's what I would do, would be to get myself some more language skills before I went. It wasn't necessary, but I just think it would have enhanced my experience. So that was one. I think just initially figuring out, like the train systems, like when we went between Florence and Venice or Florence and Rome, there are certain things like you have to make sure you get your ticket validated. If you don't have that little time date stamp on it, it's not considered a valid ticket, and you will absolutely get a fine like on the spot. Watch this happen to lots of tourists because it's just like this little hidden yellow box off the side. But once, and then you can kind of operate it. So, you kind of muddle your way through it once, and then after that, you're like, okay, I got this. So those would be the major challenges. Otherwise, it was a really well-organized summer program, and we had good on-the-ground support with the provider. So, it was just a really pleasant experience.

Jeremy Rohrer: So, what advice would you give to other individuals who are considering traveling or studying abroad in Italy? You talked about language. Is there anything else, any other advice you'd give them ahead of time?

Meg Langie: Do a little bit of homework on where you're going. I think that'll just enrich your experience. If you're going to someplace like Florence, you'd be a fool to not spend a little bit of time looking at art history, because the whole place is like a living art history textbook. If you're talking about the Renaissance and all those major artists, like they were there. You know, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Michelangelo, Leonardo, Donatello, they're there. And you're walking, exactly. You're walking down the street, and you're like, oh, that's a Donatello, okay, like right there looking at it. The institution where I studied, which has now sadly closed during the pandemic, had Leonardo da Vinci sketches. Like it was just framed on the wall, like, oh yeah, that's our Leos. You're like, wait, what? So learning about some of that, again, just sort of enhances it. So, you understand what you're looking at, and you have a deeper appreciation for what you're seeing. It's not just background noise at that point. You're actually understanding what you're seeing. So do your homework, whether that's on, you know, the interesting history of a place, or like in Florence, what stands out is the art history there. If it's something about, I don't know, major events that happened there or upcoming events that are going to happen. You don't want to miss out on stuff that's happening in your hometown while you're abroad, right? Spend some time in your actual city, too. I know a lot of people travel abroad, and then they want to jet set every weekend and have like a, I don't know, like a checklist of how many countries can I cram into my time abroad. But really getting to know a place and spending time where you're studying is kind of an amazing thing that can't be replicated. Like when else are you going to get to live abroad when you're studying abroad? So, embrace that time, and you do get that chance to go, and you do get to live like a local in whatever place you're going.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah, learning to live in a place is not like taking a trip. And having that opportunity to just be there and just walk the same routes every day and get groceries at the same place every day, it's something completely different from taking a trip.

Meg Langie: Right, you develop your own spots. You know, I remember coming on warm days, which I was there in August, so, you know, warm in Italy. I'd stop for a one-euro scoop of gelato on the way home from class. I got into such a habit with it that they would see me coming through the door and start scooping my favorite flavor. Like they'd had it ready for me by the time I hit the counter, and then I'd hand over my coin, and they'd give me the gelato, and off we go. So that couldn't have happened if I hadn't spent time there. And that was just kind of a fun thing because it made me feel like I had my place, right? Like I felt like a local, like, oh, they know my order. This is great.

Jeremy Rohrer: So, how did traveling to Italy affect your personal growth and career aspirations? I think it probably affected it A lot. I think we talked about that.

Meg Langie: Yeah, like I said earlier, the career path that I was on was actually intended to work with study abroad programs. I decided at the age of 19, after I studied abroad the first time, that this was a route I wanted to explore with my life. I wanted to study intercultural communication and use that to help introduce the world and different cultures to other students. So I'd already had an internship in the study abroad office. I was going to grad school for this intercultural communication piece. I wanted to do this program, and the faculty who was arranging it at my grad school was actually my advisor. And so I had a research assistantship with her that year, and I spent a lot of time planning this program. So I actually got hands-on experience, not just going on the program, but also doing all the behind-the-scenes work for it. So I got to help and support her through all of the different steps from program proposal, approvals, orientations, all of those things that we did. So I really got a good hands-on experience with organizing a program. Now, not everybody's going to do that, but if you find whatever it is about your career goals and you find a program that can help emphasize those, whether that's an internship or a specific class you can take or a certain part of the world that you need to visit because it ties into what you're doing, like run with it, embrace it. Again, you don't necessarily get this chance all the time. So this Italy program definitely cemented my interest in study abroad. It helped me realize that I was on the right track because what I was doing was just exhilarating.

Jeremy Rohrer: So that's it. Is there anything we didn't cover?

Meg Langie: I think one last tip I would share would be to check out what's going on in the city around you while you're there. Different local events, different concerts, different theatrical performances, because that's part of living there as well. And so even if it's not included in your program, check out what's happening. Because when I spent the summer in Florence, there was this entire free summer concert series. They were hosted at different churches. They were hosted at outdoor events. They were just, you could just show up and they'd be playing free music. So we saw great Spanish guitar at this gorgeous church in Florence where the acoustics were just phenomenal and it felt like we'd stumbled into some sort of magic place. And then there was one concert that was put on by the Italian National Orchestra that was in the piazza where Michelangelo's David was originally located before they moved it to a museum to keep it safe. It was an outdoor concert in the square, standing room only, beautiful, balmy Italian evening. I had gelato.

Jeremy Rohrer: As you do. 

Meg Langie: But they played the 1812 Overture. And when they got to the part in that music where the church bells are ringing, the church on the corner started ringing with bells when they shot off the cannon part. Like there was a cannon. Like they were actually, I mean, shooting blanks, but like there was a cannon. So, then there were fireworks to the point where, like the sparks were raining down on the choir and they were holding their folders over their heads. But it was just one of these magical moments. And now anytime I hear that music, I am transported immediately back to that piazza in Italy, and I can just stand there and re-experience it in my head. And it wouldn't have happened if I'd just gone to class and stayed in my apartment. Like you have to check out what's going on in the city.

Jeremy Rohrer: We have a lot of things in Madison, but we don't have that.

Meg Langie: Right. There are no cannonballs in like 18th-century churches. Yes.

Jeremy Rohrer: Yeah, really not. Okay, Meg, I appreciate you doing this. Thanks for talking to us about Italy, and I guess we'll talk to you next time.

Meg Langie: Sounds great. Thanks so much.