The FitTech Club Podcast

"Data needs direct benefit" - Jörg Fockenberg, VP of Strategy, RSG Group

• FitTech Club • Season 2 • Episode 4

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🔥 What's in this episode? 

3x longer gym stays without adding technology - this is how RSG Group, one of the world's largest fitness operators, is challenging conventional wisdom. In this episode, Jörg Fockenberg, VP of Strategy at RSG Group, reveals why strategic tech restraint might be the key to member engagement in an industry where 81% of operators are increasing tech investments. Discover how they're achieving remarkable results through social spaces and selective integration.

🎤 About our guest: 

Jörg Fockenberg is the VP of Strategy, Expansion and Franchise at RSG Group, managing global brands including Gold's Gym, McFIT, and John Reed across 900+ locations with 4.5 million members in 30 countries. He oversees international development, strategic partnerships, and drives innovation across the group's diverse portfolio. Under his leadership, RSG Group has pioneered a pragmatic approach to fitness ecosystem development focused on member value rather than technology for its own sake.

🎯 What you'll learn

[02:35] Strategic vision: How RSG plans to maintain market leadership through selective innovation 

[05:16] The functional fitness revolution: Integrating Hyrox training and electrified strength solutions 

[09:40] Technology selection strategy: Why RSG takes a measured approach in an age of digital hype 

[13:13] Data with purpose: Ensuring every data point collected actually benefits the member 

[14:53] The "third space" phenomenon: Why members spend 3x longer in gyms designed for social interaction

📌 Links & resources 

RSG Group

Connect with Jörg Fockenberg

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Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Natalia Karbasova, founder and CEO of the FITEC Club, a global business club for founders and executives in fitness and consumer health tech industries. In this episode, we're diving into the pragmatic approach to digital transformation of the RSG Group, one of the biggest fitness operators worldwide with almost 5 million members. Of the biggest fitness operators worldwide with almost 5 million members. Jörg Fockenberg, vp of Strategy of RSG, shares why their younger members are spending up to three hours in the gym for workouts that could take 30 minutes. Why? That's exactly what we'll explore today. So let's get right to it. So let's get right to it. All right, welcome to the next episode of the FitTech Podcast.

Speaker 1:

I'm Natalia Kabasova, the founder of the FitTech Club, and today I'm super excited to have Jörg Fockenberg, the VP of Strategy, expansion and Franchise of RSG Group. For those who don't know it, one of the biggest fitness operators, I'd probably say worldwide. You guys have almost 5 million members, over 900 locations in 30 countries and you employ around 10,000 people, including franchises. Please correct me if I'm wrong, jörg. We know that you manage the brands like McFit, which is very popular in Europe. You manage the brands like Gold's Gym, but there are also some more premium brands like John Reed Hi5, and John and James, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thanks very much for having me.

Speaker 1:

Let's jump right into it. How would you define one most important thing in your role at RSG Group?

Speaker 2:

Bringing the company into the future. So that's more or less what's the strategy part of my role. So really seeing like where we are now and where do we want to be in 10 years and how do we get there.

Speaker 1:

So where do you want to be in 10 years?

Speaker 2:

Still in a role in that we are now, and, ideally, even bigger still in a role in that we are now, and ideally, even bigger. Leading the market is something that is for us, also in regards of innovations, in regards of new concepts. This is something what our founder, who sadly passed away, brought more or less into our DNA, and we want to live that heritage.

Speaker 1:

Right. So breaking this down to today, what are the most important projects that you are currently pushing to get to that vision?

Speaker 2:

So, let's say, we have to invest into our property because it was something that was neglected in the past. So we just recently shared the new MagFit the MagFit original with everyone and we will reinvest massively into our portfolio when it comes to MagFit. When it comes to John Reed, it's about, let's say, developing more the premium part of the brand, so we started it closer to McFit. Nowadays it's a more premium approach that we are having, with which we are very successful, and we're going to work on that further.

Speaker 2:

One thing I like to correct we don't have Hi5 anymore, so my Hi5 is now a McFit and we changed that. It's about focus and about not having too much brands we have to take care of and, in regards of goals, we want to strengthen the positions that Goals has. We have this year the 60th anniversary of Goals and what we're going to celebrate globally and bring more masters on board and it grows the brand massively and a little bit more into micro. What we are doing now is we are looking into every concept and trying to fulfill the needs of our members even better, and we'll test a lot of things we will talk later about in this podcast.

Speaker 1:

So today we are very much focused on building the fitness ecosystems. The brands that you've mentioned for me, is already a big chunk of that ecosystem that you are building. In terms of the RSG ecosystem. What else is there apart from the gyms as such?

Speaker 2:

What we will do in the future is we will try to get better at a lot of things and to approach some things differently. So we will start, I think beginning of next month, with integrating the concepts from the street or that are already there in the market into our general reads.

Speaker 2:

So we're going to make a first test with a very established team player in the german market that will take over our classroom with uh I would rather tell it in a press release soon, but um, it's going to be a boot camp where we don't try to to reinvent the wheel. So we saw it in a couple of other european markets, but uh, let's say the headline would be box engine. So bringing something that is successful outside into our gym, and this we're gonna start. We are at the moment working together with someone who wants to do something in the exergame space exergame and we are checking there how far we will involve ourselves into that, but also learning more about this market, the market potential and how we can, in the future, integrate this into our gyms.

Speaker 1:

Like fitness gamification approach making fitness missions.

Speaker 2:

Yes, but to an extent that it also that is not just a gimmick. We're going to have somewhere that it's more like part of the member journey within the gym, so that we use things that are really something that will attract more people and will not only help us having members that anyway want to go to a gym, so rather attract those who don't want to and who need the gamification aspect. What else is, for us, very important is the integration of better functional spaces with the hashtag HiROX, so we're going to involve ourselves in much more there so that we have functional spaces in as many gyms as possible where you can prepare yourself for high works races. This is important to us and we're going to make first steps.

Speaker 2:

When it comes to electrified strength training, it's called as a category. What do I mean when I say this? Like I see three players with whom we want to work in the future or figure out how future collaborations can look like, and that's eGEM, that's Milan and that's TechnoGEM, and so far we have trials from let's call it back in the days, so Milan circles and things like that. But we want to give it, let's say another try and try a more modern approach to it.

Speaker 1:

So you're trying simultaneously three of the two very big players and one smaller player, but also very interesting, Milan. What are you looking at? What's important for you? How will you evaluate those?

Speaker 2:

We have MaxFit, we have a huge discount. Electrified strength training with more or less no stuff on on the gym floor might be complicated due to onboarding and things like that and and also being with the member whenever the member needs help. Um, this can be complicated. So we say we one evaluation point is how self-explaining it is for the customer and also in regards to wear and tear. How do machines survive our customers? Let's call it this way Right.

Speaker 1:

So AGM has recently been part of our internal fitness club Deep Dive about AI and fitness, and we're also speaking about Genius System by AGM. What's been your experience with this and how would you describe this to someone who is not quite familiar with this system?

Speaker 2:

Well, so let's start with how to describe it. I think the idea is that you have, let's say, a setup of not too many eGym machines, if you don't want to where you can do accessing of your current form and then of the progress, and be able, via the app, to exercise in the entire gym, with recommendations on weight, on eating positions, etc. And have also, let's say, cardio training and everything integrated and then having a virtual assistant that helps you to develop better results. So what's your take on this? If that works, it's awesome, the idea is great. So far, I haven't seen it in practice, and so for me, the point is, in order to really believe it, we have to test it and we have to see it and also how our members and customers react to it, and if it's for them a benefit, then it's a benefit for us, and if not, then it's not. We are very open with that, and what you also have to take into consideration in looking at us is we are mainly active in a field of people from 16, 18 to 40.

Speaker 2:

The megadrant at the moment is weight training, is functional training, is pure strength training, and there might not be, let's say, from majority of new members, not really the need, because they teach themselves via tiktok, via youtube. They have their training app already there. They work out together with friends and everything, and therefore it's maybe also part of my skepticism. When we would have a, let's say, a more age member group, then it would look different and we would also maybe have moved earlier into that direction. But at the moment our members are not requesting this. Nevertheless, we will try it because we will you mean?

Speaker 2:

electrified strength, the electrified training Right, and then together with Genius and everything, because it's the same with extra gaming, what I mentioned before. So it's clear there will be a point somewhere in the future where the customer, the member, will demand it. But we all don't know where the point is. But we want to be prepared. So that's the reason why we're testing, why we're figuring out things and having a look at things.

Speaker 1:

Sounds very interesting. So if we zoom out a bit, you have a huge amount of gyms where you can use those as testing ground. You're looking into the connected hardware, or you call this electrified strength training. I think that's a very interesting definition. We're looking at exagaming. You also have an app, or a couple of apps actually. And where does data come into this play, customer data, training data how do you collect it and how do you envision the ecosystem where you understand what your members are doing 24-7?

Speaker 2:

And that's one, and if I'm but I like to be really honest on that one so we are still, let's say, away from even knowing the training behaviors of our members too well. So that's where we're at, that's where we're working on of AI and seeing like analyzing the training behavior of our members when we have to more or less reactivate them, push them in order to not lose them, and these are the things that we are working on at the moment. So the individual training data. That is more from our perspective at the moment, more towards the end of the rainbow.

Speaker 1:

So right now it's activation, engagement and, ultimately, retention. Do you work with wearable data as well? Any plans?

Speaker 2:

Not in the foreseeable future. Okay, because that's also for me. Besides that, we have some clubs, I mean MISO, for example. I hear from time to time from boutique operators that they might be at the point where you just need your watch and no heart rate sensor anymore. Um, actually, myself I've never been in a class where that is possible, and I go to a lot of classes on different continents and, uh, I haven't seen the proof and therefore, yeah, let's wait and see.

Speaker 1:

Very down-to-earth perspective. That's a very German approach I would say. Do you see that there's a difference in you know training trends, working with connected hardware in the United States, where you're on GoldStream?

Speaker 2:

We see there in the market. I think that's more or less the same with longevity and other things. So we hear a lot of talk but actually we don't see too much of action. So really seeing that there's something super sophisticated Is's something super sophisticated. If there's something super sophisticated, it's generally super expensive and so not for the masses. But if I go into looking at the US, if I go into an Equinox, if I go into a Crunch, if I go into an LA Fit name, it reality is different and reality is not super sophisticated.

Speaker 1:

So what do you think? What do consumers want? Let's zoom in into your consumers 8 into 40. Already mentioned strength training absolutely a trend. What else Do they want? Overall data connectivity and every performance step measured and reported upon. Or what are you seeing in terms of what consumers are expecting?

Speaker 2:

or what are you seeing in terms of what consumers are expecting? I think we have to differentiate here in between what does a consumer want from us at the gym at the moment and what does a consumer want with his data for himself? So I think, looking at the wearables and I have here my apple watch ultra I use a sensor to measure my blood sugar. I will talk soon to someone who does hydration measurement and all these things. So for the for the consumer, for them to analyze, for them being their coaches themselves Really, really interesting and lots of demand on that side and a lot of, let's say, different apps you can use, depending on what you want to do From us at the gym.

Speaker 2:

What is expected is that we have a proper working app, that ideally, I can use the machine I want and that the gym is accessible and has the needed equipment. So we are that part of the level and we have in us a system called medallia. When we ask our members always of john reed, of the ghost gyms how do you rate what? What do you expect from us? And I've never have been reading something like I want to use my wearable and get them more effective, or please connect it to your app or whatever. They complain about other things, so about more, let's say, natural things.

Speaker 1:

So it's not working.

Speaker 2:

Yes, for example. Yeah, somebody was sitting in the steam room with clothes or name it, so somebody's training almost naked, right.

Speaker 1:

You know, jörg, I'm just very curious. There's been this talk in the industry about a gym being a third place, right, and we've talked about that like four or five years ago in our conversations at the FitTech Club and FitTech Summit, and I'm just wondering what do you see in this space? Do you see gym evolving into a third place where you can come and work and meet your friends and have your social life? Or would you say, like, really no, it's a place to train, to get some weights on, to build some muscle and that's pretty much it. What's your vision for the gym of the next, let's say, two to five years?

Speaker 2:

I think, coming to third place. We are, let's say, quite ahead of the curve when it comes to that. As you're looking to our chain reads and how they are built, and if I walk next door in the morning into our gym, next door to the head portal, I see a lot of people working there afterwards taking a class, going into the sauna. So we created our premium spaces, the way that that is possible. Even more interesting is what I see with our, let's say, younger crowds that I think they don't even have to work in the gym because they might be still in school or university or whatever, but they have a behavior of that.

Speaker 2:

Exercising is part of being in the gym, but it's also very social. So when you go Friday night into a max fit, for example, it is their third space, but without a sofa. Um, they hang around, they talk to each other, they exercise a little bit, but they are exercising. From my perspective could be done in half an hour, but they need three hours for that and, um, more or less spend the evening in the gym.

Speaker 1:

That's a very interesting definition of that, and we're having quite some ecosystems emerging and you're definitely working or intending to work with some of those, like connected hardware, electrified strength training. We'll also have the ecosystems like Withings, that are positioning themselves as a consumer health company but still are collecting quite a few data. That's absolutely relevant for fitness operators, and I've just heard they're running also a small test in France with a gym operator in terms of working together. So where do you see gyms, specifically your gyms, and maybe you can also differentiate between different types of brands positioned for the future as compared to the whole wearable ecosystems and people using smart scales and smart body analyzers and everything that is also actually part of the value that gyms are or could be offering. Where do you see this positioning of the future?

Speaker 2:

So I hope that in the future, also with the help of these market players, we find ways to work together and to make something out of the data. But for me, there's so much lecture data going in various fields it's not only in our industry and so everything is tracked everywhere. I allow cookies in order to test my behavior better, and whatever, and then I look into my let's name something my Netflix recommendations, and I have to do nothing with what I'm looking at. So in the end, it's about also making a use out of that data data. So so having having data and I think that's why we are there, maybe sometimes a little bit more, let's say, relaxed, because if it's not beneficial, then why? Why should I collect?

Speaker 2:

So it only gets interesting really collecting when I can make or the person that works out of my gym the member has then a direct use out of it or is working together with a PT. If you look into the PT field from my perspective, and especially looking at the US, so our PTs make the people, for example, buy a device in order to track things and share data with them so that they can work with the results. But that's still like old school 101. Yeah, but this is something that is beneficial, where I say like, okay, now I, I know that how you slept and how you recover and all these things and in order to that I can plan your training. But there's still, like I also use from athletics to a lot of other apps and devices, and they cannot even deal with me changing time zones and show that my battery is drained and I know that I can exercise.

Speaker 1:

That's a huge problem for whoop users. Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Yes. Time zones yes, who whoop users yes, absolutely yes, Sometimes those yes Whoop especially not to blame them, but nevertheless they had a thick set. Yeah, Athletic is doing that a little bit better, but nevertheless, also they are like recommendations where I would say it should be the most advanced because it has all the data out of my smartwatch, but it's still, in a lot of cases, not appropriate and it's not right for someone who knows how to exercise and who has a good, let's say, body feeling and can judge how he's feeling and if he can do this exercise a day. So it's still not there, from my perspective, where it needs to be in order to really work with it.

Speaker 1:

Jörg, what one example in connected ecosystem space, in the connected fitness space, excites you most. That's not part of your business.

Speaker 2:

I think there are a lot of interesting things out there, but there is not this one thing where I say like whoa, that's outstanding and super sophisticated. And so there are a lot from my perspective that are on a good path, like I said so, from Wolf to Aurora to whatever. So they are all doing a great job, but there are still things where they can get better and where it can be more accurate. But this is me speaking also as an athlete, as somebody who's exercising his whole life, and this is also taken into consideration, so it's a very professional approach to that. I think for the individual out there, it's better to have something that's 75% right than nothing, and there's really a lot of good advice coming out of it, and my judgment was more from the professional side and I say still a way to go.

Speaker 1:

Very down-to-earth, very professional perspective. Thanks, jörg for joining us.