The FitTech Club Podcast

"Insights over input" Jörn Watzke, Senior Director, Garmin Health

• FitTech Club • Season 2 • Episode 6

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🔥 What's in this episode?

Garmin's fitness segment grew by 30% in a market where global wearable sales declined by 7% - this is how specialized health devices are challenging the one-size-fits-all approach. In this episode, Jörn Watzke, Senior Director of Garmin Health B2B, reveals why users don't need more data but better guidance and insights. Discover how Garmin is achieving remarkable growth through an open ecosystem that translates complex biometrics into actionable insights for both consumers and B2B partners.

🎤 About our guest:

Jörn Watzke is the Senior Director of Garmin Health B2B at Garmin, a company that achieved a record $6.3 billion revenue in 2024 with the fitness segment alone reaching $1.8 billion. He leads B2B partnerships and integrations across fitness, healthcare, and preventative health sectors. Under his leadership, Garmin Health has developed an open platform approach that powers thousands of partner integrations worldwide, from fitness chains like TechnoGym and CleverFit to research institutions like Harvard University.

🎯 What you'll learn:

[03:23] Why specialized wearables are growing while the overall market declines [07:04] How Garmin translates complex biometrics like HRV into actionable metrics like Body Battery [14:09] The ROI model that fitness businesses should define before implementing wearable partnerships [16:18] Why AI is only as good as its data input, and how continuous monitoring creates personalized training [22:21] The step-by-step process for becoming a Garmin Health B2B partner through API integration [19:50] How the convergence of fitness and healthcare industries will fundamentally change business models

📌 Links & resources

Garmin Health

Connect with Jörn Watzke on LinkedIn

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Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm Natalia Karbasova, founder and CEO of the FitTech Club, a global business club for founders and executives in the fitness and consumer health tech industries. In this episode, we explore how Garmin Health managed to grow by over 30% to reach $1.8 billion in revenue, although the global wearable sales declined by 7% last year. Jörn Watska, Senior Director of Garmin Health B2B at Garmin, reveals how their open ecosystem approach is powering thousands of partnerships across fitness, healthcare and preventative health, and how translating complex health data into actionable insights is revolutionizing the fitness and healthcare industries. So, without further ado, let's dive right in.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to the next episode of the FitTech Club podcast. Today I'm very happy to welcome Jorn Watzke, who is the Senior Director of Garmin Health B2B at Garmin. As you might know, garmin Health is the division of the Garmin Corporation that's focused on leveraging devices, connected ecosystem and software to improve people's lives In 2024,. Last year, garmin achieved a record revenue of $6.3 billion. That's a 20% increase compared to the year before, and the fitness segment reached the staggering $1.8 billion, which is over 30% more than the year before. So I'm very curious about the open ecosystem approach of Garmin. I'm very curious how the company reached these numbers. So, jorn, with this in mind, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 3:

Hello Natalia, it's a great pleasure to be with you here.

Speaker 2:

Great to have you with us, Jörn. Let's jump right into it. What is the most important project that you're working on right now?

Speaker 3:

I would not point out a single project. We are, meanwhile, in this market for a while, in this market for a while and what I want to point out probably is, in the last year, a huge development in acceptance of variables and the understanding of the importance of this data. So we see a huge development in all areas. So fitness, pure fitness in care, rehabilitation, risk prevention. So this is the most exciting. So I can probably talk now for half an hour for a lot of projects.

Speaker 3:

If you want to highlight maybe one or two, as you are with your FITTECH club representing the FITTECH community, we have a number of partners like Technogym just announced their integration with Garmin and really want to focus in an outdoor tracking. So this kind of 24-7 outdoor tracking. This is a huge trend we see, but we see also that also researchers we just announced the last days our partnership with Harvard University about the happiness study, how variables can play an important role in capturing all the data for this kind of study. So there are many, many things and I think the open system and the huge data which we collect play an important role. So very exciting times.

Speaker 2:

With this in mind, how would you explain the fact that in the last year, the global sales figures for wearables decreased by 7%, with Apple as well not delivering quite what they were expected to deliver, and, at the same time, the wearables for kids gaining traction more and more?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think you already provided a reason or an answer. So there are players in the market which really say, ok, I will deliver one solution for all, or one mass market product, and I think the market is requiring really dedicated products. We are in this market for a while. We have the VivoFit Junior, now the third version, we have the Bounce, the Connected, the Divide, but we see this kind of trend that you need to have stylish products for women, you need running product, you need wellness products and this is what the market is demanding. And we see this trend and, thanks to that, we see the growth at Garmin and we see this in the market.

Speaker 2:

So you position yourself as an open platform company as compared to the likes of Apple, and you're offering different kinds of APIs, sdks, for B2B partners to get integrated with. Let's just dive a bit into your open platform strategy. What kind of components does it consist of and what does the partner have if they decide to get integrated?

Speaker 3:

Very good point. I think, when you talk about open platform, you have to see this in two directions. One is it's an open platform that we are not OS dependent, so we are OS agnostic. So you can use your android phone, you can use your ios phone, so, um, it is a perfect solution for everyone. This is one thing. It's open in this way, um. But the other thing is on the open platform is regarding also the solution, the b2b solutions. So there are partners which offer maybe a corporate wellness solution or a fitness solution or whatever.

Speaker 3:

We believe we have to open this and work with strategic partners which then serving this market and therefore we're investing a lot in this kind of interface and understand the needs of these partners and why we are doing this Because we believe you need experts to serve this market. Because we believe you need experts to serve this market. You have this even in the fitness industry. On the gym industry, what is your home market, or which you understand probably better than me, you know that one solution does not fit all. So the market are different, the gyms, requirements are different, the regional market are different, and this we try to serve and then bring the best solution to our partners and this works, and for this one we have different interfaces which then serve the different needs.

Speaker 2:

What kind of data are you collecting and what are some use case examples that you feel are relevant for this discussion?

Speaker 3:

That is a good question, because a lot of people think they know what a verbal is measuring, say, heart rate and activities and GPS. Now, meanwhile, the verbals are measuring really a lot of health data. This goes from oxygen saturation in the blood, respiration, heart rate variability. Heart rate variability is a base for a lot of parameters about our body health, like stress, sleep phases, training, readiness and so on. So all these parameters are then captured, stored and the user has the capability to share this with different services, where then you can derive a lot of different services.

Speaker 2:

Let's speak about the use cases, because I have the strong feeling that users today do not need more data. They need more guidance and simplification, because we're being overrun by all the signals, push notifications, everything that's out there in the market. So give me maybe two or three examples how specifically the data is being used to serve the users and, of course, also the businesses.

Speaker 3:

That is a very important point which you brought up, because all the details. When I give a user details and say you had a 15% REM sleep phase and a 20% deep sleep phase, what does this mean? But what does it mean? My wife say, thank you, I don't need this information. But when you know, what does it mean, how can I improve this and how to translate this?

Speaker 3:

This is, I think, is an important task for solution providers like we are, or our partners, so for our consumers, we try to translate this. So, for instance, we have a sleep score. We give a sleep coach which really say, okay, your deep sleep phase is too low. What is the impact and how can you change this? Translate this into a sleep score?

Speaker 3:

Heart rate variability is translated into stress. Even stress is hard to understand. Is stress good or not good? We are now in this podcast and probably our stress level is pretty high because a lot of people are listening and follow us, whatever. But this is not bad. It's a stress for a short term time. Stress over a long time is negative, stress when you cannot sleep. So we translate this in the body battery where you see okay, can you charge or recharge your body battery. So I think this is important to translate all these parameters in a really meaning for the users. So this is, for instance, an important parameter is training readiness Give you a real recommendation, how ready are you for training, which training is relevant for you, and so on. And then these parameters we offer for our users and a holistic coach for different purposes, but I see this also partners which are connected are using this more and more in this kind of recommendations.

Speaker 2:

So we know, based on your 2024 end of year reports, that usage highlights are specifically body battery that you mentioned, sleep and stress management. I think that kind of tells us about where the trend is going for the most users. I feel that least of the users are using wearables to attract the real strength, like the professional users, and probably most of us are just using that to understand, hey, am I well, am I okay? What can I do about that? So what are specific use cases, on the B2B side of your partners as well, that help solve those problems?

Speaker 3:

Also here I think the use cases are really, really broad. So this can be from the fitness area when you say, ok, I want to be more fit, I want to get more ready for a run, and so on. Here in the beginning, many years ago, everybody was thinking about what's your training plan, which training needs to come and talk about recovering time. But now, a real good training really see the holistic health approach. So how is your sleep, how is your stress, do you recover, and so on. So for this kind of purposes, this is a perfect setup and so on. So for this kind of purposes, this is a perfect setup.

Speaker 3:

We see, but also now a lot of applications also in the health segment. So in rehabilitation and therapies, this is really relevant to recover. So we see therapies in cancer. So it is really proven when you have a chemotherapy on cancer treatment that you have to be active. Then the recovery rate is much, much higher. When in mental health situations, we have treatments for Parkinson's patients which measure automatically the severity of the tremor and then adapt the medication in time.

Speaker 2:

And the tremor is being measured by the wearable.

Speaker 3:

The tremor is measured by the wearable. So our wearables have a 3x acceleration sensor and measure with over 100 Hz resolution. And then you have also a gyro which measures the turn acceleration, which is important for the tremor, and this is another parameter. So the range of use cases which you can develop on top of these parameters is endless. So we see this trend in the rehabilitation therapy, risk prevention, but also in the overall fitness, and we see that people are getting more aware about their body and they want to live longer. And for this one, this holistic approach is and healthier and healthy, exactly.

Speaker 2:

What's the major difference between the data that's being measured for fitness use cases and for health use cases?

Speaker 3:

I think the parameters are, which the source of parameters are very similar. So, of course, when you are in the fitness you really have a little bit more details during the activity. So you see what is your heart rate, how much the accelerated in the elevation, the accelerated elevation, or how fast you recover on the heart rate, and so on. But on your fitness and stress level, on your sleep quality, heart rate variability as a source, respiration level, and so on. So the source of the data is, I would say, more or less the same, but what you derive and how you use the data, that is a little bit different.

Speaker 2:

So we know that Technogym is using your data. We know that some other companies, like CleverFit in Germany, are also integrating your data. Can you tell us a bit more about that, so that we can have an image in our heads how this works?

Speaker 3:

I think there are different use cases which we are serving for our B2B partners.

Speaker 2:

Tell me about CleverFit. What do you do for them?

Speaker 3:

This is more a reward program as well, and this one is about what is important for the partner. So they want to give their users a kind of benefit to be part of their club, and this is a thing where you can get rewards. You get discounts which you will not get outside of this club and you get insights about your data and you get a kind of information which not focus only on the one hour you're in the gym. You get the kind of holistic service. So you get more service, you get a reward and you get a binding. And that is about I always say when we are talking to partners and say okay, what is your target? What do you want to achieve? Do you want to have a better engagement of your users? Do you want to have a binding? Do you want to win new customers? And depend on these targets? We can define together a program which then fulfill these KPIs.

Speaker 2:

So your customers are gyms, fitness apps. Of course, they have a big business in the area of insurance of health, of military, of employer health. Let's focus just on the fitness wellness part of things first. How Do you measure the ROI?

Speaker 3:

For us before we measure the ROI, we have to define the KPI.

Speaker 1:

That's a great headline.

Speaker 3:

That is important. And this is quite often in the discussion with a partner. As I said, let's say, okay, what is the focus? And quite often when we talk to the partner and say, hey, we want to have an engagement program, we say, yeah, that is a focus. And quite often when we talk to the buyer and say, hey, we want to have an engagement program, we say, yeah, that is a tool, but what do you want to achieve?

Speaker 3:

And this is really things we then define and say, okay, I want to buy the customer, I have the problem that the churn rate is too high, or I want to go in the acquisition, or I want to offer a better service and make an upselling of new services. This is what we define in this one. And there we define our targets, which is the target of the partner. And then we know, okay, which kind of tools are really working for which one. And then we can define and say, okay, we want to increase engagement rate by 50%, we want to win 20% new customers, so, and then we can define and with the experience we have, and say what is the real benefit and how the communication is. Then we can define also the return of invest and in the end every project, have to bring the return of invest at least in a year, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2:

Can you share how many partners you have in the ecosystem?

Speaker 3:

No, it's not a public information. Several thousands I can say. The level of engagement is really different. So we have partners which are connected, use the data and offer a service on this one. We have partners where we are engaged and work together and we have strategic partner where we really together are in the communication, bundled services and so on.

Speaker 2:

So, jorn, you've created this great ecosystem of hardware, of service as well of data interpretation levels. But my question is like what do you do now in the HOBI Like, first of all, from the user perspective, why do you need an extra layer of training if you can feed all your data in chat, gpt or similar AI anyways and get guidance, get curated workouts, get very personalized training? So, first of all, how do you survive this AI revolution and how do you thrive in this as well?

Speaker 3:

Good question. I like it. Ai is a huge, huge trend. You say this and then when you go in a chat GP and AI is very good and analyzes a lot of data I think what you are expecting is a very personalized and good training plan. And if you have a very good training plan and then the next day you had a very bad night or you didn't have time to fulfill or don't make the training that is, then definitely you have to do your training plan again. So I think it's important to have a coach on a training plan which is really real time, adapted to your needs.

Speaker 2:

Is AI not capable of doing that yet?

Speaker 3:

Yes, but you need to have then automatically connection to this plan. I mean, with JetGPT it's hard. You have to feed this then every day, or probably five times a day. That's a problem. So that's the reason we see we have in our verbals, meanwhile, a lot of coaches. We have a sleep coach, we have a training coach which is exactly doing this, so they analyze automatically the situation, their training readiness, how you performed in the training and really you can set your targets and are doing this.

Speaker 3:

Is this a competition to the external tools? No, so we have a lot of partners which are connected, and so I review also all the partners which are connecting and these are a lot of partners every week and it's interesting that I would say at least a third of them want to offer AI-based training, coaching and so on. This is good. We have a lot of partners. You see Radha. Radha is offering the AI running coach AI running coach on top of Garmin. Is this a competition to us? No, they love Garmin because of the data and so on, and they offer a service for this one and that is perfect.

Speaker 3:

So I think everything which is a personalized plan is good and we will see a lot of development in this area. We will see a lot of development in this area. We will see a lot of company will disappear in this area because there is currently a super hype, but the potential is is huge and important is that you have a very good ai engine which brings a personalized coaching which good result. But on the other hand, you need a constant data stream which feed this kind of engine and for this one you need a 24-7 data collection and we see here a huge potential. But we don't see this as a competition. We see us as a part of the system.

Speaker 2:

So, looking ahead, where do you see the most interesting and promising business models at the intersection of wearables and AI?

Speaker 3:

I think I want to distinguish between business model and potential or value add or trends. I think, as I said, the huge trend goes into the personalization and more data feeding it and really make this in a kind of automated way. In the past it was only training and now the holistic data that you really measure the holistic health status. This is a huge trend. On the business model, I think the biggest potential is in offering complete new services and really understand what is a really value add for the user. And here there are new services which are relevant for the end user. Why could this be? It needs to solve a real problem. When you have a problem that you say I cannot sleep, I'm not efficient at work, I want to have a training, and so on, if you just say I give you another training coach and I already have a very good training coach, you really need to understand which problem you're solving and is the value add really there?

Speaker 3:

And the second thing is, or third thing, which I see is, the conversion of the industries. So we see this in the rehabilitation. We see that in the healthcare it goes more and more in the early detection of the risk and go into prevention instead of in the treatment. This is one thing which is really important. On the other hand, we see this in the gym and fitness industry, that a lot of this gym and fitness industry already understood that elderly people and this kind of rehabilitation and prevention is a very good business. And when we bring this all together and the data together, I think there is a lot of business in the market for all sides and a lot of benefits for the user, because when we merge this data and this kind of business areas, then we can do a lot for the society, for the people, but this will generate also a lot of new business.

Speaker 2:

So what's the process for a partner to get integrated if they are considering getting a Garmin device or working with Garmin Health as a B2B partner? What's the process? What are the steps? How does this happen?

Speaker 3:

There are different areas. There are easy, simple implementation. We are an API, typically for remote programs and so on. You can go to the website, apply for it, get access. That's it. If you have plans and you don't really know, I really recommend to go in contact with us, where we then really can evaluate together and say, okay, which kind of services are relevant, because we have a lot of other interfaces on top. So we have real-time interfaces, logging interfaces and so on, which are not available for everybody, but after evaluation and we see a value add and the service and the business, we can give them also access to this kind of interfaces.

Speaker 2:

Your very last question. What's one thing?

Speaker 3:

in your opinion, that will change the fitness and health industry forever. I think this is the understanding and the conversion of the industry. As I said in the beginning, this will really change it and some of the players already understood this that when the classical fitness industry are leaving their closed room of the gyms and go in the world and are open for a holistic health approach and then see this potential, this will change the market and these players who are doing this, they really will grow and change the market and this is what I see and we want to be part of this.

Speaker 2:

We too. So, Jörn, what's the next place we can meet you in person?

Speaker 3:

The next place I recommend at the FIBO. We will be there and we have also a party, so if you want to come, then please ask Natalia or our team. It's on invitation only, but we would love to welcome you.

Speaker 2:

I'm very much looking forward to that one. Jorn, thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, natalia, it's always a pleasure.