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The Battlefield Of The Mind
Introducing Rick Yee, author of the groundbreaking book "Everything is a Choice" - where he teaches that even the most complex decisions can be broken down into simple choices.Rick's unique approach is all about training your brain and raising your awareness. Creating the truly authentic, high-value person you were always meant to be. He's helped countless individuals make life-changing decisions and take control of their lives. Don't settle for less than you deserve, start making choices that empower you with Rick Yee's guidance! This is the way, the warrior's way!
The Battlefield Of The Mind
58. Tapping Into Your Warrior's Heart/Spirit Side with Expert Kai Jordan
What does it mean to be a man and how can one transform personal trauma into strength? This week, I had a compelling conversation with Kai Jordan, a men's coach and relationship mentor, who bravely opens up about his journey of healing from trauma and redefining masculinity. Kai's insights into the concept of 'warrior's way' to channel anger and his unique perspective on the protective energy he calls the 'Punisher' delves into a new depth of understanding about anger management and trauma recovery.
Diving deeper, we unravel the complex layers of repressed memories and the inner child, and how unmet needs often contribute to anger. Kai goes on to shed light on his struggle with grief, identity, perfectionism, and how childhood experiences shape our relationship with discipline. His revelation about the innate healing system and the power of awareness and healing are not just intriguing but also offers a fresh perspective on handling trauma and personal growth.
As we journey further, we touch upon topics like relationships, polarity, conscious relating, and the power of tantric practices in fostering deeper connections. A candid chat with Kai can be a gateway for anyone yearning to heal and grow after trauma, unlock emotional maturity, and cultivate deeper relationships. With a blend of personal experiences, professional expertise, and actionable advice, this episode promises an enlightening and transformative journey. Tune in and realign your path today!
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What's up? Warriors? All right, today I'm with Kai Jordan, and not only does he look like a samurai, he speaks like one, and I'm very excited to have an awesome interview with him. But, kai, you work with men, just as I work with men, and I think today's episode is gonna be towards our brothers. And so let's tell people who's Kai Jordan, what do you do, and then just go right into your greatest passion on what you're doing here, because that's you know. Let's cut right through Samurai style.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Rami Rick, yeah, I'm a men's coach and a relationship mentor and my journey has been healing very traumatic experience that involved the doctor and my dad, and I felt that my masculinity was distorted from that event.
Speaker 2:At two and a half, Essentially, I was in a surgical procedure. My dad had to assist to this doctor doing something to my genitals, holding me down, and, yeah, it just distorted the way that I trusted my dad, trusted the medical association, trusted anyone but myself, and since then I've been on a healing journey, silitating for others but as well as myself and what I was working with. A lot with the modalities over the last 12 years with body talk and coaching and healing, working a lot with masculinity but as well sexual trauma. We deal a lot with helping people resolve deeper sexual trauma or abuse, and so my wife and I's work is also around sexuality, less on the traumatic side but more on the creating fulfillment and sexual satisfaction in the relationship, raising the level of consciousness and sexuality and through sexuality. So that's a little bit about what I'm up to, but I'm sure we'll dive deep into the details today and I'm looking forward to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like you took your weakness and turned into a strength, if I'm hearing you right. So you took like hey, listen, my junk got messed within a not cool way, and so I might teach people how to mess with your junk in a cool way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's true, it's true. That was kind of my point of injury. My point of it was a challenge. It was something that was. I think life gives us an opportunity through the greatest challenge that we have and I saw that in myself.
Speaker 2:And when I stopped running from that event and I faced it and I dealt with it, who I was completely changed. There were aspects of me that was avoiding responsibility, aspects of me avoiding accountability, aspects of me blaming, giving away responsibility to people outside of myself. And once I faced that event, once I faced that experience which, of course, at two and a half, there is a certain context of responsibility. Right, the context of responsibility is not I am solely responsible for what was done to me, but I'm responsible for what the impact was. I'm responsible for how it affected me. I'm responsible to resolve whatever the trauma was and not take that out on the people that I love, which at some point in my life was the case. I was unconsciously lashing out, taking out my anger and frustration and suppressed rage and resentment onto the people that I loved and noticed that that was a pattern that I had to change and once I really acknowledged that, took responsibility for that, realizing it was my own and not the people around me causing that. Then I took on a different path as a man. I took a more mature path, I took a more responsible path.
Speaker 2:And yeah, that's, I think, what every man goes through in their life. They realize there's a destructive dynamic going on inside of them, because masculine energy can be very powerful, be very creative, but also very destructive. And I think we wield the double-edged sword where, as men, we're taught by society we have to temper our angers, that we can fit into society. We're not, so we're not threatening and at the same time, they want us to be fierce and ferocious and lead. That's an interesting dynamic. So how do we balance? How do we temper? How do we temper the anger? And I found it's less about tempering it, it's more about channeling it, it's more about directing it.
Speaker 1:What do you mean by how do you do it? Because we teach anger in the warrior's way, and how we do it. I'm very curious. I'm like, all right, you like sniper rifle, this thing, or you're gonna aim in a direction Like what's the way that? Like Kai Jordan says, if you've got anger and you're gonna channel it, here's how we channel anger. I feel like I need to be like you're so calm. You're like I feel like I have to get closer to the microphone and match your energy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll admit I spent the majority of the last 10 years trying to temper. I was doing a lot of meditative practices and so I have that meditative side and underneath that was this burning rage and desire for revenge and this like I fucking hate the world and I hate what was done to me. And that was underneath all of the four to five hours a day of meditation. And I think men can spend a lot of time sitting in solitude and cultivating presence and at the same time, there's this burning, unresolved aspect of themselves that is always underneath the surface waiting to poke its head. I called it the dragon. Yeah, I like it. We call it the Hulk. The Hulk exactly. It definitely was the Hulk.
Speaker 2:It would show up in times when I least expected and the triggers would be so random. But what I did understand? I did track it down to certain thought patterns. The main thought pattern was around injustice. Anything I felt was unjust Was just a trigger for anger. And then, deeper than that, there was something I call. I call him now I'm just forgetting the name because it's blanking- but I will make a name up for you.
Speaker 1:We're gonna call him Bob, if you don't get the name.
Speaker 2:He's a protector energy, but I call him the Punisher. That's what, okay?
Speaker 1:The Punisher. That's a spirit of vengeance bro?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because at some point in my life I adopted this idea that, in order to learn from my mistakes, I had to be punished, and that was the over responsibility of that event, of this event. That happened when I was two and a half. I had this procedure, that was done, and I felt that that was a punishment. I didn't understand. I was two and a half.
Speaker 1:I don't understand what I'm trying to. I wanna make sure I don't misunderstand. So the Punisher Marvel style is gonna be like this guy is like this is injustice and since the justice system doesn't work, I shall be the one who's the judge and jury and I will end those who the justice system will not handle. That's like the whole thing with the Punisher. He's a spirit of vengeance. We're like it won't be done through the system, it'll be done by me, so creating their own justice system. Now, did you say? Your Punisher is more like it's almost like self-inflicted, versus seeking justice. It's seeking some sort of like you said, torture or some sort of punishment on yourself, self-inflicted damage. Is that what your Punisher did? He was internal and not external. Yeah, it was both.
Speaker 2:I believe that all of us have a reactive and a repressed aspect of this in us. It's very archetypal, it's very social. We look at the system of education, even just we look at the parenting systems that are in place. Most of them are punishment styles. So you look at those thought systems or paradigms in society and they install this at a young age. They install a sense of if you're not getting it right, then there's a punishment. If you do something wrong, there's a punishment, and we all deal with that in different ways, but mine was again. Mine was coming from a two and a half year old mentality which was between zero and seven.
Speaker 2:We are egocentric. If we have an event in our life that is incredibly challenging or intense at that age, we often don't have the capacity neurologically to handle it. And then it becomes an energy trapped in the body and it becomes some sort of a reactive archetype or reactive personality. And, yeah, it gets triggered, independent of our desire, our conscious awareness. So it gets triggered subconsciously and then it just acts itself out on repeat. And that's what was happening.
Speaker 2:There was this desire for revenge, to get justice, to get even with this doctor who did something to me that I couldn't do anything about, and that was there. But then also there was this imploding version of it, this self-attack like I wasn't strong enough. I let this happen. How could I let this happen? I needed to be smarter, I needed to be stronger, I needed to be better. And there's that internal criticism like it was my fault that that happened and that those two ways of directing that unresolved energy not only was destructive to me but became destructive to the people around me, In relationships, for example. If that got triggered, there'd be anger, there'd be an outburst, and that was scary to me, that was scary to my partner, and it took me a long time to even just get over the shame, the fact that I had that aspect, that unresolved part of me that was causing pain to myself and to others. The shame was like a veil Can.
Speaker 1:I ask you something on this when you're going through this, did you find yourself going so far into the other direction where you almost got into a hyper-protection system, not even just for yourself, but also others? Anybody even like, let me just ask you, when it came to bullies, were you the one who would just watch the show, or were you like, hey, leave them alone? Like, did you become that guy? Okay, I've become an active protector.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell me if this makes sense to you, A basic fear of being harmed or controlled by others, or a violation? Does that sound like? Nope, that's not when I'm playing that game. Right, the desire to protect themselves and to determine their own course in life. Sound like you? It's gonna be your way. It's gonna be your way. The super ego message is you are good or okay if you are strong and in control of your situation and you went hyper into like I shall be the karma, Like I believe in karma because I am the karma. Tell me if this sentence makes you happy. Tell me if this, like this, resonates to you as a good shield here. Hey, this is Kai Jordan. If you fuck around, you're gonna find out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it would be. The interesting thing is I would do it more in an intellectual way because my physical power was taken. So it'd be like I can find a way to get around this threat with my intelligence, with my skill, with my knowing, with my. It turned into that At one point when I was younger. It was more physical when I was in my teens and I was working out lots and I felt this desire to.
Speaker 1:You gotta be stronger.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if I'm strong you can't hurt me anymore. Yeah, and then, of course, you have your suppression system, which is interesting. That you went towards meditation Is your I mean listen, you look Asian, are you come from an Asian background?
Speaker 2:It's my mom's Asian, but she's Canadian born, so not like oh, no, I'm with you.
Speaker 1:I'm a Yi bro, but you don't. I don't look like a Yi. Listen, my dad's I was Chinese, so I get it, but I don't. I don't look, listen, I never went to China, I don't know. I'm just curious if, like as you said, you went into meditation really hard and you do hours of meditation a day to try and find your way to work through it, which is, you know the different warrior types, that's the spirit side warrior. I'm going to go into connection to my spirit to see if I can find peace. But you're also going to find, you know, that there's four parts of us, even just at the base level, before you get into advanced training mind, body, heart, soul. And you're like I'm working soul like crazy. That's my strongest side is soul. I can play with mind, but I'm not doing the physical outlet or I'm not doing the emotional outlet. Most likely because of that system, especially your teen years, there was a uncontrolled volcano emotions. Is that fair or not fair?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was. Well, there was a lot. There was quite balanced in the yoga practices, doing about an hour and a half of physical practices, asana-based practice and then about two, three hours of deeper Kriya yoga, but definitely found more of a reversion or an aversion rather to the physical until the physical stuff started coming up through the energetic work and that was more neurological and that was. You know, that's the core of my work, like my background as a facilitator.
Speaker 2:I worked in kind of body work and energy work with, you know, structural, myofascial work, and also emotional work and body talk, which is more energetic and integrative work, and then breath work and different modalities like that. So as I was going through my own healing journey and working with others, which I ended up facilitating a lot more for others than myself, which is this is an interesting discovery. So by the time, five years into my healing, I had facilitated over 5,000 sessions. So there's a lot of experimentation with like that was my lab. You know I call myself more of a researcher than anything. I was researching on the field. I was in practice researching how are people put together physiologically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually? What are the correlations when they have this emotion? What does it do to the body when they have this thought? What feeling does that create? Where does it store on the body All these correlating patterns I was tracking and there was one moment where this whole thing made it took a different turn of understanding.
Speaker 2:I went through a spontaneous healing in January of this year. It was this moment where I felt this war inside of myself. It was really intense at that time and I had this awareness that I was just fighting something inside of myself. I was constantly fighting this, knowing this intuition, something that was trying to surface, and there was a moment where I consciously said, okay, I'm not gonna fight this anymore, I'm gonna lose. I'm gonna let myself lose to whatever is surfacing. And I felt sick to my stomach. I went and I laid down.
Speaker 2:My wife ended up opening the door to the bedroom. She was at a workout. She came back home, she opened the door. I was laying in the fetal position and she just walked in and said are you okay? I said no, I'm not okay, something's happening. And she came and she sat beside me in the bed and just put her hand on my lap and I started crying and shaking and started releasing all this energy, seeing memories of the surgery that I went through, being put under. I had no recollection of that, of seeing memories. At one point I was screaming in this high-pitched voice what did I do wrong? Why? Why is this happening? What did I do wrong? It was like. I was like what did I do wrong it?
Speaker 2:was like living out that experience. It was really coming through me as the energy was being relived and I was seeing all these flashes and my body was shaking and parts of my body that were tight before that were releasing and opening and energy was moving. It was just this really powerful experience that was spontaneous and unexpected and at the very end of that it lasted for about an hour and at the end of that she asked me is what do you need right now? And without thinking, the answer was clear I need me. I need the person I became.
Speaker 2:If I now was there with that boy, if I was there with the skills that I have, with the understanding that I have, with the capability and the compassion and the love that I have, that I give to my clients, if I was there for me, I wouldn't have dealt with this much trauma, I would not have suffered, and that made me understand really, this internal nature of people who serve, people, who help people, who become facilitators.
Speaker 2:There is an aspect of us that becomes the person that we need it as a child, and I didn't think in that moment, up until that moment, I could actually show up energetically for that person, the same way I show up for my clients.
Speaker 2:If he surfaces, I can actually be the me, the future me that I needed when I was two and a half with myself. And then that created this interesting, almost a modality of it's similar. I guess it would be similar to kind of reparenting work, but it was directly working with the energy, the energy imprints, and and that was really, really interesting because this whole time I'd been facilitating and learning on other people. I had learned so much, there was so much I didn't just think to direct towards myself, like directly I would look to other people and be like, okay, I'm gonna go to this guy, this guy can help me, I'm gonna go to that person, this person can help me, instead of like, hey, that feeling comes up, I can do something about that. And so I created more of an intrinsic way of dealing with it and an intrinsic system To resolve these things, and that created a much longer, more prolonged resolve and and resolution.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it creates a radical acceptance and it's pretty awesome that you found that. You found this on accident because, like, there was training for that. Yeah yeah, it's all spontaneous good job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a. It goes in a neuro linguistics. It gets into programming that through that way and you being able to, you know, go back in. But there's also training. They do. I've done this with people too, where you go back into the memory as yourself and you help little you, or you go there and be there with little you, or you remake a new memory and you rescue little you or like whatever would be. But then you've also you're going into like this, so people understand there's a lot of guys right now I, if they're listening to this, going what the fuck is this guy talking about? Like I already know they are, because even I was. I'm far more.
Speaker 1:My natural strength side comes on mind and body. What's the tactics? Let's execute, let's kick some ass. You know I'm not gonna quit, I'm gonna push through. What's the battle plan? Is it? Is it solid? Let's challenge it.
Speaker 1:Mind, body side, strong, and that's like the yin. The other side is heart and soul and people go like well, how do you do that side? I'm like don't try and think your way through that side, you won't do it. You can't mindset that side. That's mine, you know. You can't tactics your way into feelings. You know you don't force love. You fall into love. This is a completely different system. It's upside down.
Speaker 1:And so To go in and like this is where I found to for you, like tapping into Repressed memories and inner child. I had no idea where that was at. Like I'm looking at because I got into some spirit work a couple years ago, because that was not a side that I was working into, whether be through religion, faith, energy, spirit, soul, whatever you could go, whatever it, law of attraction, vibration, pick a thing like like I did. I wasn't working in there until a couple years ago and I started cracking in on some new things, heavy things. I was like, okay, those are in there. And then I also had a very repressed heart side Because I was all mind body protection, like you, I had to shut that stuff. I just up down, can't go there.
Speaker 1:And so when it came to heart side, this is where the word that you end up finding on accident was surrender. Well, surrender on the mind and body side, that means quit, give up your failure. You're a loser. You know, I just recorded with a Carlos Henry who's like winners win, losers lose. He's like nope, you know, I'm like that's the losing, I'm not quitting. Well, surrender on the heart and spirit side. Like you said, you used your mind to say I'm going to lose, but really you just let it, you surrendered to it, I'm gonna go in, which is actually opposite. It's actually really powerful when you go in. And then you ended up doing a reliving, which was the first stages of neuro linguistic programming, and then you went into. Now I'm gonna go in and do the inner child work, where you are now doing your own Rehabilitation in your mind. Is that fair?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I found the same thing, found the same thing.
Speaker 1:I bring my warrior into my kid and hang out with little me, because I didn't know he was in there. Yeah absolutely yeah, what sounds bonkers, though Tell me, it doesn't sound bonkers.
Speaker 2:It's. It's so counter logic. Right, as men were very logical and what I found was the analytical mind cannot go into the subconscious, it cannot go into the feeling. I Also had an interesting discovery when I was working with a client one time. It was just very simple and very obvious, but I never thought of it like this. But it's working with her and she said I feel so angry. Why am I angry? I said because there's anger in your body. What do you mean? Why are you angry? You're, you're angry. That's why you're angry. Feelings don't have a meaning. Feelings don't have a reason. They're, they just exist.
Speaker 1:Your experience of life just exists people's logic brains right now are not liking this. No, it's not logically explain the feeling you're like. It's a feeling you don't explain that, you live it, you feel it. Yeah, actually, I really enjoy how you caught the anger piece, especially injustice.
Speaker 1:I have three different parts and anger that you have to pay attention to to see where they are, and injustice and unfairness Is in one of the categories. So you're definitely right on that one. The other one is something is taken from you or something who's been lost, things done against you yeah, yeah, something taken or lost, yeah. And then the last one, especially relationship dynamics, and doesn't have to just be love. It can be friends, it can be Parents, it can be, you know, siblings is unmet needs and it gets in.
Speaker 1:The Marshall Rosenberg stuff is, you know, people get angry when there's a need that I need, matt, but I don't know how to articulate it be we don't have agreements and see, I don't know what it is. If you start in this category, I think let's we can find where your anger is coming from and you're grieving right now. That means you're in your loss system, because anger is part of your loss system. That means there's something that happened and you're probably bouncing back and forth between I can't believe this shit happened. If only I'd have done this or if only I knew that then I could have done this, and I'm really bummed out about having this situation Be what it is. That's just grieving man. That's just. That's a grief system. That's part of you trying to work to acceptance, but a lot of people don't understand the finish line is Defining acceptance in each side instead of this is my identity, because my feelings run wild in here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that that resolution came. It came and it took, it took months. It took months and months of just living, living in the allowance of those repressed feelings and what wasn't addressed and you know, a lot of this too gets covered up with the good boy. You know, this is really. What is that mean for you mentality Like, hey, I'm a good, I'm a good boy, I listen, I, I Do what's asked of me, I serve, I take care of the people around me. You know, it's that the other dynamic In my case was just having a loving mother, but one that wanted me to in some way live out her dream.
Speaker 2:You know, I, she wanted, she wanted to do music. Should they put us in piano very early? And there were benefits to that? We were three, so that was right around the time the trauma was and I had an outlet, but there was also almost a distraction, you know. So it's like, hey, let's do piano.
Speaker 2:And then pretty soon I was playing in competitions at four and winning against people that were 810, you know, because I started pretty much with the same amount of experience, but they started five years later. So I was always competing at age levels twice my age and beating everyone and that was a way of finding Value Winning competing, getting better, getting better, never making a mistake, you know, bought into that thing. And in fact when I was in that reliving of that experience, I Used to get anxiety every time I went up to perform, like in intense anxiety, and I Developed a way of numbing it, which was like a mental distraction, little bit of combination of mentally distract myself, don't think about it, and just numb, just tense up a little bit. And I never understood where that came from. But when I was reliving that experience, this idea that I'd done something wrong to deserve that surgery Kept coming up. And I understood that.
Speaker 2:My, my feeling, my fear when I was going to perform Was that if I mess this up, that surgery is gonna happen again. It was like a correlation, like I did something wrong to deserve that if I mess up here, something like that's gonna happen again too. And so it drove me, it made me really competitive like I. I didn't want to lose. I almost never lost in that category of my life. But that also covered up all of these deeper feelings and I never really faced I never had to face the fear of being wrong, the fear of Messing up, fear, making a mistake, because I was in a position that I was winning Interesting so so did you both create your parents as the villains and your source of acceptance.
Speaker 2:You know, when I was looking at them through the lens of the resentment of the event happening. So that was the non acceptance, the lens of non acceptance. They were people that had forced me. You know, in the same way the doctor forced me to do these procedures, forced me into playing piano and da, da, da.
Speaker 2:And then I also felt the benefit because I I can be very disciplined, like that discipline of daily practice. That don't have that discipline, they can't like, they can't sit for four or five hours in a day and do a practice. So that discipline built on that foundation of, even if you don't feel like it, you have to do your practice, you have to do your piano, that was installed and that was so, actually so positive. But my interpretation of it at the time was that was forcing me, I couldn't do what I wanted, I didn't get to play when I wanted, I didn't get your time off. So that scene through the lens of non acceptance was a negative thing, but seen through a lens of Acceptance, that was a very positive thing, very happy to happen.
Speaker 1:What was your inner critic? Like really really, really hard on yourself, like were you really rough on yourself, like almost to a perfectionist aspect?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah, like to the point that I can't make a mistake if I play piano and I do a piece, 10 minute piece, if I mess up one note, that's. That's the problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see now you definitely like this entire system that you built on yourself was like it was. It was so hard on Yourself to do everything right that you created this catastrophic event. That will happen again If you're not perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not sure I understand that, but is that I'm asking?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Oh, if, if, if I got it wrong. Yeah, it was very subconscious. It was definitely like I had no idea this was playing out. Yeah, it was like if I get it wrong, and so if I admit defeat, if I get it wrong, it was just this feeling of just Something bad's gonna happen, that's all like. It felt like just extreme danger. Yeah, I had to be good, I had to be, I had to be the person that met other people's expectations right in some way. That's the pleasing side. I had to be, I had to be winning or I had to. I couldn't be Wrong, I couldn't lose. You know, and in the work of Warner Earnhardt and the Est work, which a lot of people may have already done landmark, they talk about this the, the winning formulas, the winning strategies for life, and how your attempt to avoid being wrong, avoid losing it, ends up creating a sabotage of love and vitality, and Very thing that you're after is the very thing that you're destroying with these strategies.
Speaker 1:You know you're winning, especially coping mechanisms. My protection system will get kicked on, especially when people are playing around in the heart area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely that I came. So that's that's an interesting exploration. So, in this Whatever spontaneous Healing event that occurred which again is not so spontaneous because you don't see the work leading up to it it's like it's like I Live in Bali so I'm looking out at the fields and I'm just looking in. The rice is the rice paddies. I have view of the rice fields and they're starting to come up. The harvest is coming and If you look at that, you say wow, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:And when it's all flush and the rice is there to harvest, you may look at it and go what a what a beautiful thing, but you don't see how much time they spend tilling the soil and cutting the chap and burning it and hauling it out for the cow. You don't see any of that. You see the harvest and so when I'm talking, you're seeing the harvest. You're not seeing what really led up to that. I think that's that's. The reality is that most of us spend a lot of time in that dedicated practice and we put in the time, we put in the energy, and then there's a moment of award, which was this spontaneous Healing that took 45 minutes and that took a lifetime to get to, but it wasn't by chance.
Speaker 1:And I agree, I very much agree. That's awesome, man I I wrote. I wrote almost like a little poem off of my first book when I, like, the very beginning of my program starts off with a Thing called the moment and I think Tony Robbins talks about this and other people do too. We may work for a year, two years, five years, whatever, but at some point, no matter what it is we're doing, whether it's a bad habit, whether it's a goal, whether it's a motivation, whatever there's a moment where you go I'm done doing that. Or like I'm going in, or like starting now. From now on, there's a moment and it may take a year to get to that moment, but there's a moment where you go enough From now on.
Speaker 1:You know done doing that. You know that it's those existential crisis moments and it may take, like you see, it comes anywhere from weight loss to break through or whatever. It may be Something that's happening. Where you go enough from now on, I'm going in, I'm doing it. I'm gonna have courage or bravery, I'm going for it. Or like I'm letting that go. I don't need that anymore. My cognitive dissonance has had enough, had enough of a field day in here. I'm done doing it. I know the right answer and I'm in Like and so I love that you're like. It may have taken a, a lifetime to get to, but then, once I went in and faced that demon, like, change the life, change my whole life, and this is I really love. Just being clear.
Speaker 2:You've done five thousand like in person, like trainings no what this one sessions, for other one session and then two thousand coaching sessions, so we're over seven thousand now in 12 years. You know, work with people and I I say that Because it just gave me an understanding like seeing so many people come in with different ailments and different things they wanted to work on my awareness and being able to track that Helped me in my own understanding of what was going on for me. You know, it was so helpful and, of course, I helped a lot of people along the way. There were thousands of people that I got to work with and support and and so who I became in the process of helping others Was the person that I needed to be for myself and then, when I decided to show up for myself in that way, healing occurred and that was a miraculous moment.
Speaker 1:I Love those moments, man. I love the moment when everything changes. That's fantastic, yeah, and I also like I give you a lot of credit to to have the the courage to go ahead and say I'm gonna keep going in to battle with people Over and, over and over again, not only to help them discover themselves, but also is my path to discover, no, that for myself, I help them, but help help me too. I got to go into battle and this is where people follow, the people who will lead from the front, especially with men as you, as a purpose that you have, but a lot of times we're afraid to make the mistakes, to learn from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was until until I, like it was. It felt like life and death, making mistake, getting it wrong, and what I discovered in that experience. So after I Relived that and I started uncovering the deeper understanding of it from within, I Started becoming aware and this is a part of the body. Talk work is really breaking down each part of the body and understanding the consciousness or the function of it. So it comes from that world as well. But I Started becoming aware of the amygdala and I understood that Some things that I was doing mentally which was preventing it from coming out of vigilance, and so I was in a state of vigilance for a very long time.
Speaker 2:It is the function of the amygdala to protect you from future threat and and by identifying Situations that are very similar to the threatening situations you experienced, to alert your nervous system Completely unconsciously. So it happens through the nociceptic channel and not the the perception channel. Nociception is the vagus nerve channel moving up your proprioceptive awareness. It takes in information from your environment and it it alerts you of danger before you're even consciously aware of the danger. Typical example is you're walking down an alley and you get this weird feeling and chills come through your body. That's nociception, that's you are aware of the danger before you're consciously aware of the threat, if there is even a threat. Now this channel, interestingly enough, if you have trauma, it will recognize certain environmental Triggers and it will alert your nervous system that there's a threat, even if there may not be a threat. So you live in this world of of danger, but there may not really be Real danger. Right, you live in this world of feeling threatened but there may not be danger.
Speaker 2:And so I Understood after this release that my amygdala was hyperactive. It was, it was trying to protect me, but in the process of trying to protect me from an event like that happening again, it was also suppressing the feeling of that event. It was Preventing me from even experiencing it the first time. So I had this amazing protective mechanism that was also suppressing the healing process. And that was really interesting. That if I stay in protection mode, if I keep trying to protect myself, I don't go into healing, and that that obviously it's very, it's very True that we can't fight and digest right. The nervous system, the autonomic nervous system, the sympathetic, is fight, flight. It's in that adrenaline mode, but if that doesn't shut off fully, we never really go into the deep, deep healing, into the rest, relaxation, the pair of sympathetic, so that surrender is necessary for men to process the Unresolved challenges that they faced.
Speaker 2:And what I've noticed in that event processing the event is they talk about this concept of post traumatic growth and we all hear about post traumatic stress disorder. Stress is the same. We have stressors in our lives. We have intense challenges. Why do some people go through intense challenges and become stronger and other people become disabled by it or Fall into a state of disorder?
Speaker 2:What I noticed was that when we Dissociate from the intensity of the experience, when our awareness pulls away from the body and dissociates, there is no internal processing occurring. We're not actually taking in that experience and learning from it. What needs to happen in that event? When we dissociated, as it gets stored in the body for a later time To process the information? When we can bring the awareness back into the body, we can process that information. And if you process that information, instead of being Defeated by it or being Wounded by it, you learn and you grow from it.
Speaker 2:Like that event doesn't scare me anymore. You know this whole being overpowered and disempowered, all that stuff. It doesn't scare me anymore because I've gone through it and so I know how to deal with it. So, if there's an event that you're avoiding, that's a goldmine waiting to be tapped, that's an opportunity, that's a possibility, that's a growth waiting to happen. You purposely go to the gym to stress your tissues, to create trauma on your body. There's a way to do that emotionally, to create emotional maturity and resilience. There's a way to do that mentally, to create that toughness, to create that discipline. And so this is something that, as men, in some way we're taught to avoid the feeling of the experience, because it's not manly, it's not cool to express. Well, we, that's a very important part of our journey. We have to integrate the very intense feelings, and that's how we learn to channel it instead of it being destructive. We learn to direct it Only once we've integrated it.
Speaker 1:I'll give you some praise on this one because I get my research. I found the same thing, but I do it from a very different way. But it's the same answer and so like Props to you because, like all this people I've worked with, I see the same patterns. But I come at it from this like warrior attack point of view, like this is defeatable. You said the disassociation as denial, the suppression system that you're going into. It's not because you're weak or crazy, it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1:The healthy version is I'll put that in here and then later I can unpack it when I got time. Well, some people go that goes in here and then I just push that down and then that goes in here and then I push that down and that goes in here and I just push that down because nobody cares anyways, I'm not dealing with that and so it wasn't designed to be live in denial, but it does store it and so I like that you come at this from like that, like it's, it's trapped in the body. We're gonna find it. Because I go into like here's how you do the training To like kill the thing. We got to go find the thing.
Speaker 1:I still find it, but I like that you come in like it's trapped in this part of the body, because I go in. This is a battlefield of the mind and so I'm like let's go into the memory or let's go into the thing. I'll go with you. Let's go fight whatever comes out. I got you like, yeah and I'm with you, I have no fear. There's no fear here. Let's go in, let's see what demon comes out, let's see what memory it is, let's see what monster is, and sometimes it's just a curse that needs to be let go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know we'll see.
Speaker 1:What is it? Well, we got a fight here. What's there? Fear. You mentioned fear all the time, the no see, no seception area, the intuition part of us that comes out. How anxiety works. Man, I think that we're on we're, we're on the same path, I'm parallel and man, I'm like that's what I found to, that's what I found to. I just go a different attack style than you, yeah, but it's the same idea, and like well done, man. I like I gotta give you, I'll give you praise, because sometimes I'll run into people and be like I See that you're kind of at the beginning of this journey here, but I'm like no, god Jordan's, god Jordan's going down the path, man, he's going pretty damn far. He sees it, he's got that, he's got that, he's got this, he's got this one. Well done. I also want to go in more, because you speak more from this field side.
Speaker 1:Yeah and most guys are so suppressed, especially spirit, hard side, that most of us had to go body, mind side Just to survive, yeah. And so I know a lot of guys look, I'm struggling with this spirit side. I don't get it. I don't understand. How do I get in there? And you know I'm struggling. Heart side that's repressed. I know you say I'm supposed to go in there and I got inner child stuff or the romantic or the connection. I know that's in there, but I don't want to go in there because that's also where all the stuff I'm terrified of is, in there too and I don't want to go in.
Speaker 1:How do you help the guys Break through, getting out of just mind, body and getting into, like let's tap into spirit man? You know, because there's a lot of let's just be real a lot of religion has messed up people's interpretations of what spirit or soul is, and so people have put their personal beliefs in with a belief system that doesn't even actually line up with, a lot of times, people's trainings. Yeah, and then they're like I have a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to spirit or soul. How do you help? How do you help them break that, that wall down? What's your strategy?
Speaker 2:so I use a subtractive process. I, everything that we do on top of the natural state is it's just a, it's just in some way Obscuring the natural process of life, like what happened to me spontaneously was I got out of the way. We all we all have an innate healing system inside of us that heals our body when it gets damaged. We also have that for the emotional system and the mental system that they're all. They all have their own fat, their own different way of resolving things. Right the mind. What it does is it clears things. So it'll. It'll actually wipe memories from the brain. That's how we resolve trauma. You see techniques like EMDR, which you're using eye patterns to wipe neurological imprints. The body does it different. The body digests. This is the interesting thing. This, this is an interesting discovery. So I was.
Speaker 2:I got up to a certain point where I got stuck trying to kill my ego, trying to kill the identity that I was struggling. When I got to a certain point and I had a mentor one time who said well, the the problem is that you're trying to kill it instead of integrate it, and that was a big shift and I started going okay, how do I integrate? That's interesting and I started understanding that when you, when you put food in the body Right, when you put something into your body, when you ingest something and that's not just physical right you ingest your life Experiences. That's, that's you live it, it's experienced in the body. When you have an ingested and experience, in order to let it go, the body needs to extract the nutrients from it first. It's, it's very efficient, it's very intelligent, it's not gonna let it go unless it's extracted the nutrients. So this whole idea of release, release, get rid of, get rid of the feeling you know, or kill, that didn't work to a certain point. It worked up until the point that it worked and then after that it didn't work and I started understanding that in order to Really overcome this, I have to integrate it. It has to be something that is absorbed within me. It has to be something that's embraced and then processed through my body. The body remembers everything. It doesn't forget a single thing.
Speaker 2:I was, I was unconscious for the surgery, but my body remembers the incisions my nerves up into to the point that I started processing the sewage still react with light touch on my legs. If I had a massage or something, they would just go. My body would do this. It was completely unconscious, I Didn't want it to occur, but it was stored in the body, the memory was in the body, the energy was in the body, and so what I do with people is I Bring them into a state of awareness, which is the beginning of meditation.
Speaker 2:Right, the meditative process is to be able to Bring your awareness to something beyond the mind and the body, into pure awareness. So Awareness is, for most people, in in the way that we're established, is routed through the five senses. Your five senses are outward, facing information Receptors. They take in information. They just taken vibratory information. Your eye takes in vibratory information at the frequency or wavelength of light. Your nose takes in vibratory information at the frequency or wavelength of smell. Right, they're a different. It's the same energy but interpreted through different frequency wavelengths.
Speaker 2:That all goes to a part in the brain called the hippocampus, and the hippocampus takes this information and References a hundred ninety seven different parts of the brain, which are predominantly memory centers, and it constructs an image. It constructs an image it doesn't perceive directly. It constructs an image. 80% is constructed from memory, 20% is actually what you're seeing. So your, your, your experience of reality is. That's probably lucky as 20%, exactly exactly for most people. And that's just the neurological side, that's just the brain side. If you're in a trigger, it's even different, because you're Experiencing something that's not real. Your brain is actually creating an image that is not happening, as If it was a real, lived experience.
Speaker 2:And here's an example. This is a simple example. You walk into your house. It's dark. You see a shadow. You jump, you think something there's an intruder in your house. You turn on the light and it's a lamp. It's like the coat hanger and your body is in the fight, or fly it, it's ready to fight, it's ready to go to war. But when you realize it's a coat hanger, it's like, oh, I don't need to fight this, I don't need to, yeah.
Speaker 1:But sometimes, sometimes you still fuck that coat hanger up for muscle. Think you are going to kick your ass anyways. Your wife walks in with you roundhouse in the coat rack.
Speaker 2:It's true. It's true. We got to get rid of that energy somehow. You know, we got, we got scared. We got to get rid of that that energy. You're right.
Speaker 1:My hippocamp has made you an enemy and I agree I know I threw you off track a little bit, but this is, this is good, dude, and like I like your approach here because you're coming in through this energy, you're coming in through spirit side on this and it's uh, it's my, my whole program is gonna be on the opposite end and this is why I love hearing what you're doing and it's really important because there's a lot of guys who I know, who do have this like heart, spirit, energy thing in them and they do not know how to sort it, and so like it's really cool hearing that we're finding the same thing from the opposite ends, like we're both like it's right here, is that what I found?
Speaker 1:And you're like I'm coming from this side and I found that too, and it's like that's like a testament to me, to somebody who's actually mastering their craft, because like hey, I've gone in further than anybody else I've run into. I've talked to PhDs, I've talked to authors, I've talked to a Ted talkers, I've talked to people and I'm like I've gotten at this point and this point and they're like okay, that's really good, that's interesting. I like that because I got here and that goes right with what I found, and we're like finding all the pieces and you're saying, well, I'm coming in through the spirit side, coming in through the soul and the energy and the connection side, and you're finding the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it, man and I guess where it kind of correlates. Where it might correlate is when I noticed this, when I discovered this innate healing system from within I know it's already there, it just needs to be tapped into I asked myself why doesn't it work? Why doesn't it happen for many people? What's the reason? And and in that inquiry, and and in that inquiry, I started exploring.
Speaker 2:When I bring the awareness into a person's body, for example, if, if you were, if you were a person that came to me and said look, I am dealing with this thing, it's going on. I'm lashing out of my partner. You know he's yelling at my kids. I don't know what to do. I just really I'm struggling with something going on, or I feel really defeated in my work, not really living on purpose. I'd say, okay, okay, let's go with that. Where do you feel that? In your body? And I can feel. I can feel into other people's body. So your awareness, when you train your awareness, you can project your awareness into yourself. You can project consciousness into someone else. We do this with sexuality as men. If you learn to project your consciousness into your partner's body, you're able to experience a unified experience with them. You're actually able to feel what they're feeling, right.
Speaker 1:And so ever, ever, mess around, like, okay, I'm going to go in a little bit. I've done stuff, like I've had conversations like laying Carlson and people. Like before I've had people on who go into the psilocybin route and I don't know if you ever messed around with it before. But, like I'll be very open man. We had an extremely tantric experience when, like I could feel her, like from heartbeat all the way to orgasm. You can feel everything and so, like I know what you're talking about, to be able to channel that, because it's bananas, yes, when you can go like holy, like it's like I can feel you at the same time, and that stuff, let me just tell you it's a wild. It's a wild experience Like that's amazing.
Speaker 2:That's a whole other story of how my partner and I met. Maybe we'll have time to get to that. I think that's interesting thing, but we met making love across the room in a sandpager ceremony and that that we can live a little bit more about.
Speaker 1:What the what? All right, listen. I understand making love together, but making love across the room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sounds weird and wacky. All right, I'm going to finish up this topic, this conversation about how I get, and then we can get into that, because that is related.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, let's do it.
Speaker 2:The men are like what you're about to say about the man, how are you?
Speaker 1:How are you fucking across the room? I'm actually.
Speaker 2:You must got some 30, 30, 30 foot dick.
Speaker 1:Wait, what surgery is this? Because I actually want this one now.
Speaker 2:What are those surgeries do? That's what you do after that.
Speaker 1:You call this trauma If you're fucking from across the room. Listen, I need some trauma.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, maybe that's the medicine, maybe that was what led to that. No, it is something that actually we do in our workshops. We teach people energetic sexuality and energetic lovemaking. We've had people just we used to do we trained in kind of orgasmic and tantric body work and you can just put your hand in someone's energy field and we've had people who were doing it for the first time with partners fully closed. There's nothing sexual in these workshops, like you don't have to be explicit or anything, but just energetically holding masculine energy and the person's in kind of a feminine energy, and we've had people say that was better than sex. That's what I was wanting. Like women say I wish my man was just doing this to me, because that's what I've actually wanted. I've wanted that deeper, energetic lovemaking, and so that's another topic. Okay, I'll finish up on this. We're giving teasers. I'm not about to move in that direction, but I'll finish up on this.
Speaker 2:So when I discovered how the system works and I asked the question what is preventing it? What prevents the innate healing? Because, at the end of the day, I've studied over 13 modalities, all of them leverage the same system and that's the healing system that's built into every single human being Like I can't do anything for you. I can just get your stuff out of the way so you can do it for yourself. I can't do it for you, you are doing it for yourself, but you're in the way. That's how I see people. When they come to me, I'm like you're just in the way, I just need to find out how you're in the way and get you out of the way. That's it. You're going to do the work. You're going to heal. It's going to happen from within.
Speaker 2:So when people come to me, I teach them how to bring their awareness out of the analytical mind, because the awareness is typically identified with the thought process. That's why I say feelings don't mean anything, because men in their logic, will need to make something that has no meaning have a meaning. The mind does that. The analytical mind will create a meaning for anything, even if it has no meaning. So we learn to bring the awareness, which is a faculty of pure awareness doesn't have to analyze, it can just proceed. We can bring that awareness, which is traditionally takes years to master in meditation, but with guidance and direct guidance, you can do that. A man can discover this very quickly. Pure awareness, we can bring that into the body, into the place of the body that's holding the memory or the energy that's trapped.
Speaker 2:When we do that, there's all sorts of mental armorings or distraction patterns that come up. So I will see it happen. I'll say, okay, you checked out here, this is how your attention checked out and it went in this direction. And as soon as their awareness becomes aware of that, it's no longer unconscious and they no longer do it reactively to suppress or to avoid. So they can start to go through. And there can be maybe 20 or 30 different of these patterns physiologically in the body.
Speaker 2:Maybe they can track their diaphragm at a certain point, or maybe they get afraid of a feeling, or maybe they just have this feeling that drops in where they're like oh man, I'm feeling a lot of resistance. I'm like great, that's the next step. Of course, if you're being held down on a table, when you're having this procedure done to you without freezing or anesthetics on your genitals, you're going to feel some resistance. I thought my resistance was bad. It's like oh, I'm resisting the process. No, resistance is the process. You got to feel that fully. Your body was in resistance of that. Of course, you didn't want to be held down, of course, you didn't want to be operated on, of course.
Speaker 2:So a lot of times they just they get mad at themselves, they stop, they react to the feeling that's coming up instead of being aware and going deeper with awareness. If they can go in, they get to a certain point where there's this internal war and that's the amygdala, and at some point I help them in various different ways, surrender. I help them let go of the fight, I help them trust themselves, I help them trust their innate intelligence and they heal because they go into vulnerability. For the first time, their nervous system comes out of vigilance, it stops fighting and it finally rests in the feeling that they've been avoiding for the majority of their life, if not the entire life, and they feel it and they burst into tears, or they feel the softness or they. You know, one guy had this memory of being sexually molested and it came up and he was saying I've never shared this, even with a therapist. I can't believe this even came up. It was in the first session.
Speaker 2:Because when we can use awareness and when we can do it in the safe way, without force see, if you force someone who is in fight or flight, what happens? They push harder. You have to get them to let go each step of the way Surrender, surrender, surrender the resistance. At some point they come into this state of being which is no longer running, no longer fighting, and that's the space where they experience their own presence. The presence is like I don't have to do anything to be me. I don't have to do anything to prove my worth and my value. I don't have to do anything to heal myself. There is something bigger than me, that is here, working, that has my back, and I can rest in that, I can surrender to that, I can merge with that, I can exist here in this moment, being one with the moment. And it's beautiful. There's nothing to run from. And then out of that, this experience of who I am I know who I am, I know what I'm here to do. I start to feel the direction and the clarity of myself, because I'm not confused by compensation and coping and trying to be like anyone else. And that's gone. I'm just myself and it feels good to be me.
Speaker 2:And when they're living from that place, life starts to open up. Their partner starts to take direction from them. If their woman is giving them resistance. It's because they're not connected to that inner place of presence and leadership and direction within themselves and they start to notice. People start to look at me different. I'm getting more respect. My children are listening to me, my wife is falling deeper in love with me. She's admiring me more, even experiencing states of reverence for me, or she's an awe of who I am, not what I do. Who I am, that's who she'll be an awe of. Is the man that we are, who we're being, and she'll see it through our actionals, but she'll experience it through our presence.
Speaker 1:I think you did a good job explaining the man. I like it. I love how you explain the spirit side, the way that you do, and I love that. You like I do that. I'm with you, man. I found the purpose. I found security and certainty of a higher being being there and saying I've got your back, we've got you through this, and I've also found that strength and reverence. Even in leadership, as a pack leader, we talk about our alphas being true alphas Like no, they're builders. We're not destroyers. We're not. We don't walk around smashing beer cans on our head. We support and encourage and build like real alpha leads from example, doesn't force. And so, like I found the same thing, man, this is a beautiful way that you explained it and you do this first session in meditation. Is that how you do it?
Speaker 2:We do a little bit of intake. My intake is just to understand. I listen and they share and I'm just suddenly get an insight to where we need to go and when I know or when something starts to surface in the sharing and the safety of the sharing, because that's the first step of men's work is the sharing vulnerability. If we were to say, first stage men's work, teach men how to be vulnerable again, teach men how to open up, but then I was on my first stage.
Speaker 1:Awareness is my first stage.
Speaker 2:I'm with you there. Awareness is my first stage. I'm with you there.
Speaker 1:Vulnerability. If I said let's go into vulnerability next, it can be like uh no, especially especially, like you know, if you get into some of the archetypes. I work a lot with military guys, I work a lot with suppression and it's a tough. It's a tough armor to crack right away.
Speaker 1:You know because they're like that is not the way. So to know thyself is where we go first, like let's go in and figure out what's your default program and what do you do on autopilot, what's your armor type and how that, how you protect yourself, what are your coping mechanisms and how you, you know, try to deal with things that you don't have control over. How well do you know you Nods are not very good, let alone go into. Why don't you just go ahead and surrender man?
Speaker 2:Like, uh, okay, so that I guess that that is a little bit of a different difference in the approach I get. I get there through the feeling, I guess. I guess they're able to bypass some of the, some of the analysis in the vulnerability, the feeling Like, I guess, the way that I'm looking at it is when we sit in men circles and we share, the first thing that men really get to that's changing for them is the, the freedom of speaking, being held by other men and seen in their vulnerability, acknowledged in their vulnerability. That it's okay. You know, I think that's kind of the first level that we sit around, whether it be a fire, and we share from the heart and we speak. Then there's another aspect and you may you may see this as the second stage of the first stage for you, but there's another aspect which is like like strengthening the nervous system, actually doing embodiment practices, expanding our capacity neurologically to be able to hold consciousness in the body and to hold intensity of feeling. You know, that's another aspect of men's work that's a little bit more advanced and I guess they can be done simultaneously, but when I, when I'm working with someone, it's a combination of all of it, because sometimes I'll need them to get up and do an embodiment practice. Sometimes it'll be a meditation, they'll go into an emotional release and I'll use one of my healing modalities that I've used to support them through that. So it's, it's a very integrative fluid.
Speaker 2:You know that I think at some point, like a martial arts, martial artist, you may, you may study three or four different styles, but at one point it's all fighting, it's all you know. It becomes the same thing. And that's what happened, this coaching and mentoring and, you know, deep emotional shadow work and all that stuff. At some point it just became the same thing. It just became spirit in different forms.
Speaker 2:And how I see people cracking through the boundaries of their own personal patterns is when they feel and when they stop trying to fight that and when they let go of all their patterns, then it's. There's something about the experiencing of that that opens up different layers of vulnerability. They can access it through the body and almost in some way they can bypass their mind, they can bypass the analytical process and for a lot of people you're right, we have to start there, we have to, we have to get an understanding. So that's the first step. We have to understand how their world looks. I have to be in it, but then from there I can take them into different places. I can use my awareness to wreck them, even in their own body, into feelings that they've suppressed, and we can go there together. It's like a journey together.
Speaker 1:That's clever dude. I really love this because I'm a master on the other side, so I love seeing someone who's like I'm spirit side and I'm like fascinating man. This is all. And I definitely don't do it the way you do it, but I highly appreciate the way that you do it because it's the yin to my yang is what you're doing and I love that we're finding the same answer, but from very different approaches. And I honestly I really do believe that people need to go in and master with all Like. I think you need to know all the parts you have to figure you out from all these different areas. And I like also your martial arts analogy because at some point you're like I'm going to do Wing Chung, I'm going to do Jiu Jitsu and at some point it's just you're scrapping.
Speaker 2:Yeah, In the moment it's just a fight. You're grappling with whatever's in front of you. You're not doing a technique, You're not. There's nothing pre preemptive about it. You're in the moment. You're dancing with what's in front of you, and that's. Mastery is when you can drop everything and dance with whatever's in front of you.
Speaker 1:I'm with you, dude. This is why I have no fear of going into any battles. I'm like let's see what comes out. They're like I don't know what's going to come out. I'm like I've seen just about all of these. Let's see what it is. Let's open the door.
Speaker 2:It can't be worse than what I've already faced inside of myself.
Speaker 1:I've played dragons killed demons and fought monsters. Open the door, let's see which one it is and then I'll show you. Oh, this is a stout monster. This one's, you know, fear monster. This one's denial, that's how it works. So this one is anger. This one's depression, that's anxiety. I'll show you how they work. This is the weak spot and this is their strong spot. If you try to fight it like this, you're getting your ass kicked. You can't fight it like that. It's crazy. You can't fight anger like depression. You're bananas. You're going to get your ass kicked. It doesn't work like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is definitely. I love that you know an internal martial arts.
Speaker 1:That's how we train. This is why that's the warrior's way mindset is I will train you through the enemies within on which thing it is. That's why I built like, the mind map and how. This is the. This is how it works. You can know which thing is coming to get you. How is it coming in?
Speaker 1:It's going to come in through feelings. This is why, like, that's where the like, the first line of defense, has to be, in that heart and soul side. It's going to come in through how you feel. But if you have to suppress your feelings, you're not going to know how it's getting in here. You're actually going to have no bodyguard near the back door, or you kept it locked up and you aren't checking for leaks because you're just looking at the door. But it's coming in through some other way. It's getting in here and you have low awareness of what's happening in this area.
Speaker 1:But what is it, you know? Is it? Is it fear, is it doubt? Is it distractions, is it excuses? Are you still grieving still, and going through your coping systems, whether it's denial, bargaining, anger, depression. Which way is it, you know? And it's going to come in through very specific ways, and so I'll teach you the tactics of which ones are which ones. So you know what it is. But I teach mind side, body side. So it's going to be like do you understand what it is? Here are the tactics involved on how to kill that thing. Now are you going to fight it, or are we just going to sit here and think about it? Yeah, are we going to do something about this? Are we going to go in here and go get it, or are we just going to wish we got it or no, I should get it.
Speaker 2:I really like that because at some point we have to be at cause now, even in the surrender, like. So, if I have discovered this in inner child work the child is helpless, it's been left in a helpless vulnerability and it's been wounded.
Speaker 1:So you go through an experience. How old was your inner child when you found them? Was it two, or was it two and a?
Speaker 2:half three. Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Mine was eight. Yeah, I was like because all the abuse and stuff that I went through I grew up in not a nice area and not a friendly home and so, like all the abuse and abandonment and all the stuff that I went through, mine was like eight years old, all messed up, yeah, and that's curious.
Speaker 2:You have a little bit more independence at that age. So let's just say this may be helpful for understanding for some people who are struggling to get to that place of resolution the child. I call this child's needs versus adult's needs. But the child it doesn't actually have the capacity to protect itself. Often it relies on someone older, some protector, it relies on a father figure or a mother of the month that you're in a single mother home. But the child often doesn't have the capacity to protect itself. Up until a certain age it will rely right, it's normal for a child to rely on someone else's protector up until a certain point. And it's also not capable of understanding. It doesn't have the tactics right Interesting.
Speaker 1:So that's what you found, even like, because you got like a two, three year old. That's a very different conversation than an eight year old.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly For what I noticed in the child. There's a part of us that believes the child because it's self-centered, self-centered, egocentric and in some cases people call that narcissistic. Right, you see, people have narcissistic behaviors. Well, that's the unresolved child, the egocentric mind which is trying to protect itself. That's where it comes from. And so this self-centric version of ourselves goes oh, this event happened to me. What did I do wrong? And of course, it wasn't able to protect itself. I can't defend against someone holding me down. I'm not strong enough, like I don't have the strength to do it, so I'm in a state of helplessness. If I look at my son, he's three right now. If any adult came and punched him in the face, there was no way he would be defending himself. There's no, he can't. Even our six year old son. Nothing. You're helpless, correct, like.
Speaker 2:The reality is that if you really look at the world through a child's eyes, you are in a potentially dangerous world and you don't have the skills to defend or protect yourself. You have someone who's supposed to look out for you. That's supposed to be your, correct? You're supposed to have a dad, or you're supposed to have a mom, or you're supposed to have an older brother. You're supposed to have some guardian looking out for you until you can look out for yourself. That should be the natural way that we raise ourselves in society, right? Absolutely yeah. So when you don't have that, you take on the responsibility as a child, you take on an adult level responsibility, correct? Now that's where the harshness comes. That's where the harsh critic comes, because I'm a child and I'm supposed to be able to protect myself against adults. I will never live up to that expectation, never. It's unrealistic to imagine that I could. I can dream, I can imagine I'm a child. I have a great imagination.
Speaker 1:I can imagine myself fighting the old guy and beating him up, oh sure how many times In America. In your mind for sure, it's a one punch knockout in your mind Exactly.
Speaker 2:You're going to get your ass kicked if you stand up for that.
Speaker 1:The life isn't good, doesn't work like that you can't throw a shield at somebody. It doesn't work like that.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. There's a part of us that's dissociated from reality, still in a child's mind, taking responsibility for something that we were not meant to take responsibility for. So in that sense, the over, the hyper-independence, the hyper-responsibility, I have found that we need to put things into context. I need to remind men, as a child you weren't capable of protecting yourself. That was your parent's responsibility, that was someone else's responsibility and if you didn't have someone there, that was someone's responsibility. To help you heal from that, to provide a safe environment that you knew it was okay that you got beat up and that you were loved through that, and that you had that modeling of how to deal with my emotions when I did get defeated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh man, it's fascinating because I've been doing my own inner child work. I just cracked into this side just a few months ago like a handful, because, remember, I'm mind body. I had some spirit in there, but my heart side was shut off. And I cracked into it just a few months ago and I'm like what is this? And so I'm actually taking my strong sides. I've got my mind side, I got my warrior side, body side, you know, and then I've got my spirit side, different personas inside my own, you know, my own creation, if you will, this is how I like, you know, this is what's training I'm doing today. That's how I compartmentalize and so you know I'll have these different ones. It's amazing how you're like you have to have a protector in there when I'm doing the hard work and I'm just going in there and just like going in and going in and hanging out with this inner child. I'll be very open with you.
Speaker 1:I was in tears almost every time. I would first go in there just to like there's this little dude and like the stuff he had to go through. I've actually been doing it very different to not take him as like you don't know, it's almost like I'm going to teach you skills and now I'm teaching you like an older brother. And when it comes to like, I do have different personas from my mind, body and soul, you know. And so my mind side is more like this Tony Stark slash Iron man guy, you know, eccentric, gonna build it, gonna create it, inventor, you know, has that big personality type doesn't give a shit, let's go in, let's go make some mistakes, let's build it. Doesn't work, we'll make one.
Speaker 1:But my warrior side is more like this this big Nordic, you know, norman type from Mighty Max, you know this like big, like you want me to kill it, like I don't care if it's a five story tall dragon or if it's a goblin. You look like you want me to kill it, I don't care, like I'll go in anywhere. And then I got this sort of like following apostle side for my, my spirit side, where like listen, I surrender here. You tell me where we're going, I'm with you. Like this is one of those surrender things that I've got there when I went in. This heart side is the most complicated side for sure, because it had so many different parts. There was at least a few different personalities in there. One was in her child. I didn't know where this was.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, because when I, when people are working with men, we don't know where that's at, I'm like I went to the gym, didn't see the kid there. Went to the library no kids there. Went to the church no kids there. What are you talking about? In a child work Like it's heart side dude. So when I actually opened this thing up and I've had like this is where, just for anybody out there who's an expert and they're like man, how do you do this stuff on your own? I'm going to tell you. Whenever I hear that question I laugh because I didn't figure that out on my own. I called one of the heart side coaches that I know shout out to last McDaniels who was like bro, it's it's heart side, you're in the wrong area, yeah. And so I'm like okay, let's go in there.
Speaker 1:For why bring this up? Is because my inner child connected most with my warrior as like the big brother. Because my warrior was so strong and healthy he could be authentically vulnerable, he could praise, he let him win it video games, he would protect them whenever it came out and sometimes be overprotective. My warrior will go in and go like don't fuck with this little kid. Like don't you fucking dare. Like he'll be over the. He'll be over the top because, like you want me to kill it, don't fuck around with him. He's not alone anymore. But that kid was so alone for so long and had so much shame and damage done that.
Speaker 1:These different warrior types that I have, who are stronger, are like we're going to train you to face your things. But we support you and you got this and you're not alone, buddy. We got you and I know you can do it and do the thing. And he's got a little wooden sword. He doesn't have this big, crazy blade. He's going in like okay, let's see what I could do. And it's like he's going to go in and fight Cerberus, this three headed dog, and he opens it up and it's a puppy. And he's like that's a puppy. He's like I remember being much bigger than that. It's like, no, you were just small.
Speaker 1:We all went into expecting to be Cerberus. He was ready. He's like I wanted to kill Cerberus. He's like we all found it was a puppy. Go in man, rub his belly and you're going to see the thing that you were terrified of so long is actually not that thing, you know. And so there's all these different trainings and exercises we're doing to go like the warriors killed it and the mindsides already sorted that out.
Speaker 1:And my my apostle aspect has been like we've already faith our way through this. I'm not worried about any of that shit. Now the kids got to go. This is really scary and like we got you, go in there, we got you and I've been making massive strides. But he connects most with my warrior as that big brother didn't have a protector before. So that protector, it's funny that you say we're supposed to have that. And it's funny that when you say go in and do the inside work, I have created my own older brother as my warrior side for the inner child. It's amazing that we found the same answer. But I've gone in solely on me, just experimenting what works best and going in this is no, I didn't have any training in this one. I've gotten people that say you got to go in but it's a feel exercise, so it's all new to me. It's cool that you're like I have the same answer and I'm just stumbling my way through.
Speaker 1:Now the other part is my romantic, who is the most depressed part of me there is. That's the guy who has taken the most damage and while he's got this big heart, it's just in pieces in there and this is a big reason why I also had to close this area off. The kid was abused and this guy was destroyed, heartbreak after heartbreak, after heartbreak. He's just holding pieces of this thing. But he's the guy who makes himself real small, sits in the corner. He'd be the definition of depression If you looked in there. This guy cannot take a hit. He's more frail than the other parts. He's not strong, yet Now he's.
Speaker 1:He identified most with my mind side, ironically, and he's like he's like that confidence you have and that that swagger you got and like how did you do this?
Speaker 1:And I want to, I want to identify myself more as that confident version that you have and they hang out the most and they just have fun dialogue because one talks in feelings and one talks and thoughts and it's kind of this fun back and forth and so that's been helping him heal his confidence to where, when I first opened the stuff up, my partner is she's listen, a lot of ladies really struggle with empathy for their partners and so like when I go, I'm going to open this up and she was like I don't know how to deal with that. The warrior came out quick, like don't you fuck with him, like, no, like, like he jumps in front quick, like don't fuck around. This guy cannot take a hit that you're about to swing with, don't you dare Like? And and it was over the top when I was first doing this and I was like that was an interesting reaction, because it wasn't a response, that was a security system was just kicked on and that one is like you want me to kill is like enemy detected.
Speaker 2:This is so. It's so aligned with what I've discovered in myself and my own inner journey. What I call this is the mother wound. Like a lot of men are working on the father side, a lot of men are working on the father side, but the mother wound you just want to be the little boy for your mom, like growing up right, you just want your mom to love you and give you kisses and hugs, and like there's a part of that that can get distorted, almost to the point that he's supplicant, almost to the point that he gives away his power to his mother's perspective. Oh, you're not doing it. Oh you didn't dress properly today. Oh, you didn't do something wrong in me. Let's say there is very insecure that the child wound, the vulnerable child with the child, the mother wound, is very insecure, especially around women, like around the criticism of women. Like you're really like a leader of men but you go home to your woman and she criticizes you and you're just like a puddle in the floor.
Speaker 2:you know, like and like. What is that? Well, that's, that's an unresolved mother wound and it is on the heart side. It's definitely on the heart side. It's a heartbreak from the disconnection from mother, the judgment from mother, where I see this. So what you're describing and what I've seen, which is so great that we get, we get to talk about our own inner discoveries that are coming from different perspectives, but they're the same thing. It's great to be able to speak and this is this is another thing that we have to have peers. We have to have people that are on the same journey and exploring the same thing, just to talk and just dialogue back and forth and explore. So I had some important men around who you know get it.
Speaker 2:Who can help clarify the more subtle levels, where you're talking about the warrior coming in and brothering the inner child, that that comes in in the process after the child surrenders responsibility. Now, this is interesting. So the child was never meant to be given certain responsibility. It's not the right context for him to grow. So what I find is he becomes almost internally um, he directs his anger towards himself if he wasn't able to protect himself or wasn't smart enough for you know, if he wasn't able to take responsibility for himself. It creates shame. There's an embarrassment. I fucked up, I wasn't able to. So what I do is I work with men and I actually walk them through almost a meditative process where I let them let go of that need to have taken care of themselves, because this is the hyper masculine, hyper independence. This is where it comes from. Hyper independence comes from the child not having their needs properly taken care of by someone else. From zero to seven, you should have your needs taken care of. You should not know what you need to eat. You should not be cooking your own food. These need to be anticipated by your parent. They should be anticipated so a child's needs. Here's how they show up and this you'll know if you're in a child's needs or not. A child's needs are externally fulfilled. So if you're like, oh well, someone should do it for me, you're in the child's needs. That's the regressed child's need. If you're in the well, I'm this, you know, uh, that person, that person's responsible. That's the child's needs. That's how children should be. They should not be responsible for picking their food or, you know, figuring out what they have to do for the day, like we should provide structure for them. And the other way that you'll know is that I'm not responsible for it, like it's not up to me. A child is supposed to be given a certain window of time where that's okay, where they're actually taken care of by life. If they are taken care of by life, they develop a healthy ego, they develop a healthy equilibrium relationship to their world. That says life will take care of them. And after a certain point, when they become capable and they develop understanding, then they'll be able to take care of themselves. But they'll do it based on I know life is taking care of me and I am a coach Go creator in that process.
Speaker 2:If that was not the case, there's a part of the person that stays stunted in their nervous system. I call it like a neurological age. When you get triggered, you have the three-year-old self, you have the five-year-old and they come on and they throw tantrum. That's a neurological age. It's actually the age in which you got stuck neurologically. Your needs weren't met at that age and you got stuck in being able to fulfill that. So you're going around, you developed a coping strategy to try and fulfill that need and it's often through pleasing someone. It's not through being responsible, it's not through being at the cause, like, for example, an adult. When they don't feel good, they're responsible for that feeling. So they have to go and ask for help or they have to learn how to regulate that within themselves. For example, a healthy way to deal with this emotional reaction was I was feeling really, really something else was coming up after this healing experience.
Speaker 2:It happened for six months. Just, things were coming up and I felt really, really tumultuous within myself. At one point I understood nobody's going to anticipate what I need. I've been waiting for someone to anticipate what I need and to give it to me. I was in the child's needs. I was waiting for my dad to anticipate the feeling that I was stuck in to say hey, are you okay, do you need some help? And it never happened. The doctors told them he's not going to need any work, they're not going to remember anything. They never thought they should get me therapy or anything like that. So I never had that and I was waiting for someone to come and show up as that and I realized if I want this to be resolved, I have to be that person to come and show up and advocate for this need.
Speaker 2:So I have this process where I get people into vulnerability and I simply ask what did you need in that moment? And if they're connected to vulnerability and the feeling, it's so intuitive they know exactly. I needed my dad to say you got this. Instead of berating me and attacking me and saying you little shit, you're not going to get anywhere like that, I needed him to just say I believe in you and you're great and I know you're going to get through this. That's what I needed.
Speaker 2:Those words. They come so clearly, so intuitively. So what I do is I get them to give it to themselves first. I get them to actually direct that towards the feeling and it starts to transform. It's like NLP. I did study NLP, I'm an NLP master, so it's an aspect of neurolinguistic programming. But creating your own intrinsic language to replace the. I call it a relational dynamic. In life as a child, a lot of your patterns that you play out they're relational. They're not you. There's someone else that had a voice that you hear and you play through your head. They're a memory.
Speaker 1:You're talking belief systems now, even subconscious. This is why they call me curse breaker is because that's where I do most of my work. As I get into that area and I go. What are the belief systems that you have around this? And a lot of times you have to listen to them speak, because they'll say it subconsciously and I'll make you just send your belief system. Did you catch it? We have to go into awareness. Did you catch that? You are expressing a belief system? Did you make that up or did somebody put that in there for you? And most of the time this came from people with good intentions. In fact, for all you parents out there, often the best intentions create some of the most gnarly curses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and look, I say this to people who are because there's a lot in the relational work, there's a lot of facing the relational dynamics of parenting. There's a lot of that and breaking the generational patterns. We call it the relationship blueprint, which is how you were indoctrinated and conditioned by the relationship to your essentially your authority figures for it, but your caretakers, your caregivers, and that dynamic is how you care for yourself, because the first time your identity was created it was created through your interactions with society. The second time it's created it must be created consciously by you. If you don't want to just be a product of your environment, if you don't want to just live out a default future of your parentage, you have to get in and dismantle that blueprint and then you have to recreate a conscious one of who you want to be. And this is the process where the warrior steps in and he actually models the healthy behavior, he raises the child. And I'll just give an example for the people who go through this process.
Speaker 2:A lot of them report this is not me, I don't report this, but this is what they report. They say I feel like I emotionally matured like 20 years. Why? Because that energy that was trapped in the neurological age. When we free it, it evolves it. Actually it had the potential to evolve, it was just waiting there. It was like a little pocket of energy that was ready to transform into another neurological age and level of awareness, but it was stuck. And when we can release that, then all of a sudden there's this feeling maturity in the body, in the nervous system. You feel more like you're in a man's body and it's been a weird thing because at times when you regress you feel like you're a little kid and I always wondered what is that? And I understood it to be this neurological regression, that in the nervous system there is an archetype or a personality that's become trapped in time. And if we can get there and if we can remove the, we have to remove this idea that it is capable and fully responsible, because in most cases it wasn't Right.
Speaker 2:That's just an armor, that's just a protective pattern. It's like, oh yeah, I can fight the dragon. Like, no, you're a child. Like you can't even lift the sword, just own where you're at and be okay, not having to. You know, like not having to do that, you're scared. I know you want to fight, but the reality is you're in a child neurological state right now and your parent, your dad or you know someone, your big brother, was supposed to be there for you and they weren't. And you felt let down. That's the reality. You got stuck, feeling let down and uncared for and hurt by someone not showing up for you. And that's the emotion, that's the neurological age you're stuck in. You're covering it up with this need to protect yourself and imagine that you're greater than you are. And that's where we have to go.
Speaker 2:When I get people there and they go, oh okay, they let down that armor of protection, that mental, that mental kind of pumping themselves up. It's the part of the ego that if it doesn't do that, we feel like we're going to die, and that's that's like we got to keep ourselves out of that state. The nervous system doesn't like that. It doesn't deal with that world. The life and death threat does not deal with that well, so we got to create a mental way of protecting ourselves and that's often the case. So when we get down to the nervous system level and we're in there, we actually have to surrender responsibility. The child needs to give back responsibility to life to take care of it. And once we get into that process, then we can show up for ourselves as the responsible adult and reparent that child and when we create kind of an integrative approach.
Speaker 2:So, for example, if you got bullied on the playground and no one was there and you went home and your parents were like, well, you know, tough, too bad, that's life. And you felt emotionally not cared for, now you got to deal with that emotional wound for yourself, but you also still got to deal with the both. So you're scared because he beat the shit out of you and you got to go back and face that situation tomorrow. So what do you do with that? Like we have to handle? Okay, I'm going to help you resolve getting beat up emotionally, the hurt, but I'm also going to teach you how to fight so that when you go back into that situation, not only have you not been wounded by the defeat but you've become stronger to the point that you are now triumphant in that situation. You are thriving in that situation Now, the person with a strategy and the ability to resolve the emotional state.
Speaker 2:Now they feel confident and capable in their life and I often don't see a retraumatization occur. So we need both. We need the skill. We need the strategy and we also need the resolution at the deep heart level. And when you do, there's actual resolution, it's just. It does not keep coming back. There's a new way of being that gets established.
Speaker 1:Dude, I found the same thing. Say like we're doing the same thing. I found the same thing. I will train you how to go in and fight. I will teach you how this works. That has a weakness and I'll train you how to defeat it. We do the same thing, and I'll go back in as you now and let's see what that guy says. Yeah, now he's waiting to fight you in second grade. No, you go in now and let's see if he's got something to say. I bet you he gets real busy. Yeah, I'm too big, I gotta go home. Yeah, I thought so. I really like that. We call that upgrading your armor.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:People go in and when they're stunted neurologically, that regression that they do, especially when they go into their safety mechanism, which I also I've noticed. You didn't do this and I appreciate you for these. Modern psychology is trying to call it trauma responses or try and call it some sort of a disorder and diagnosed, and I also don't do that either, because people start to act like a trauma response. Instead of try to heal, they give it almost creates an excuse from an authority to not have to heal anymore, because I am the identity of a trauma response, instead of let's learn how to beat this and then I no longer have to hold on to it.
Speaker 1:Yep, so I agree, I call it upgrade your armor, and so we do armor training. What kind of armor are you using? And I see these guys who are in these old medieval armors that they put together when they were eight years old and I'm like, I'm like you're still wearing that, that armor from being eight huh, it's I think it's duct tape to gather and shit. I think that cardboard box Like what is that? Like like it's a mess, but that's the armor they created when they were young and you're right.
Speaker 1:But then I also said you went into the people pleasing thing and I think that goes into personality types because it gets into the different ways that people try to cope. I call that style which would go under Fawney, which goes under bargaining or negotiating, where it gets into the over explaining people pleasing, trying to control the conversation, you know, trying to be a mediator in the middle of it and trying to make it so like I'm good I'm good because I'll make sure you're good They'll over compromise or sacrifice parts of themselves so that you're okay and they'll actually surrender who they are to somebody else's wild, unmet needs. But they're usually creating them.
Speaker 2:You said something really interesting, which is like trying to make sure other people okay so I can be okay, correct, found that it's interesting. There are states in the nervous system which actually can't be okay unless you're okay. Here's an interesting discovery. So when the parents are unstable and they're causing a state of danger or threat the child, their environment, their safety is threatened and it is a fact that I can't be okay unless you're okay. That's a lived experience, that's a neurological experience. So they tend to become people who try and make everyone else okay so they can feel okay. They get these state, these triggers, they get these experiences of anxiety Okay, I'm going to make sure everyone's okay and they spend most of their life putting out fires because in order to be okay, everyone around me has to be okay. And it's neurological, it's actually instinctual. It's not that they're empathetic, it's not that it's coming from a altruistic place. It's that instinctual it's a protection system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, instinctually it was for you to feel safe, even just in your environment. You had to make sure your parent was okay. You had, if you have an alcoholic parent or something like that, you had to make sure that they were stable, Otherwise you didn't know if you were going to be able to sleep in the night. So, there is that developing a coping pattern of caretaking or making sure everyone else is okay.
Speaker 1:A lot of times people don't talk about that one, though, because it can easily be perceived as being a helper and healthy, but there's a very unhealthy way this is done, and so a lot of times you see, these people will be doing things for others to need them, so that way they feel valued and loved, but it's not because they're, like you said, altruistic or being like this is a healthy, happy, like dynamic. I need you to need me because I need you.
Speaker 2:I need to be needed so that I'm of value.
Speaker 1:Correct and that is oftentimes misunderstood. The very simple and people don't talk about it like very. I haven't seen it articulated well enough. That's why I'm writing a book on it now is they call it fawning. But it's just such a very basic version the way that I've seen like tons of articles written on this and the way that people explain it. It goes in like this far on how it works, but a lot of times it's just like here's a couple sentences on it and this is roughly how it goes, and you're like that is like 3% of how that works and it's not connected to the grieving system which goes under bargaining, which starts creating alternate realities of well, if only I do this, then this will work, and if only I can do this, then they'll be okay. And if only I have this system that I created, then this person will be angry anymore. And if only I do, if I sacrifice myself here, then they'll be okay and they live their life through this bargaining system. And that's part of understanding that your entire like coping mechanism or security system is also associated to a grief that you're not associating yourself with because you're living in a fantasy world of creating your own reality through. If only I do this, it'll be enough. But the reality is is I'm doing it because I don't feel like I'm enough and so they don't talk about this one very much.
Speaker 1:Most common is a textile. We know what fight is. Create our own rules. I'm going to. The best defense is a good offense. I'll fuck you right up so I don't have to worry about fighting no more. Yeah, about flight.
Speaker 1:That's the suppression hide retreat. Yeah, that whole system. This is where people become like you know, I got a, the perfectionism thing that you had. That gets into the workaholics, that gets into like I'm just going to push it down. I'm not going to deal with that. You know that these there's a lot of pieces of this one. This also, if you start mixing in this system of suppression hide retreat and with distractions, which starts getting into some of the most common distractions, like I don't feel good with my reality. I need to feel good. Well, what comes into your pleasure system? Well, that's distractions. Well, let's go through some pleasure things. I like to drink because that makes me numb and that feels good. Well, I like to, emotionally, eat sweets. I want to eat sweets because sugar makes me feel good, or I want to. I don't know. Social media, binge watching, prescription drugs, shopping, video games, porn, work, work, work, work, work and create busy work. So I don't have to pay attention to my stuff right now. We can call these all fun or productive, but a lot of times there's not very much moderation in this side and now we just found our recipe for addiction. Yay, it all came in.
Speaker 1:This is why I think denial the retreat, hide, suppression system as your coping mechanism, combined with the war, with what is. I don't want to deal with my reality because it hurts too much. I want to feel good. These all come in through protection and they come in through fun, pleasure. That's why it's so nasty and people are like oh man, you're just weak. It's like they came in through that.
Speaker 1:Like denial shows up to the party with beer and says how help you decorate. It doesn't seem like an enemy. It doesn't show up like fear, like everyone's going to get you. It doesn't show up like doubt, like this party's going to suck. It doesn't show up like excuses, like hey man, I got this thing. That's like it should work. I hope you know I'll sell it to you and you're like what is this? It's like mostly authentic, but it's not really real authentic. It's a knockoff. It's like oh man, here we are, you're selling watches and your code again. I see you, bro, like it's one of these things where all these things are mostly true but not really true and they make excuses why it's okay, it's amazing the things that we do, but that's suppression system. We know what that one is. That's flight. I'm not dealing with that shit. And then freeze. I'm going to give some freeze people a little bit of. This is the surrender style I give up, I quit, I'm not fighting anymore. Whatever you want to do, I don't want to deal with it. I'm you in, I don't want to fight, I'm done fighting. Now.
Speaker 1:People who freeze oftentimes people think that they're dumb, like when you're in a conversation. They just like shut down and they're like oh, you two fucking stupid to answer a question, to fucking dumb to do this. Oh, you can't fucking think. Right now. The studies has shown that people who freeze are actually absorbing like everything. They're not thinking nothing, they're absorbing everything and then processing all of the possibilities instantaneously, so many, so like so many things happening that they can't make a quick decision because it's too much information to process. That's not stupid. That's the other side. That's too much information, that's hyper intelligent. But give them a second to process without berating and attacking, because oftentimes freeze people are usually with attack styles. Oftentimes you do negotiators. When it goes into a toxic thing won't let somebody talk and they just shut down, you know.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting to watch a correlation of each one of these are part of your grieving cycles denial, bargaining, anger and depression, surrender, part of the depression side. These coping mechanisms are actually associated to grief, which I like that you're like well, that's just stored in the body, then we go get that thing. I'll show you where that's at. That's right here, that's right here, that's right here and we can get that thing right now. And then we got to watch out for which attacks, fear, excuses like doubt, distractions, those aren't needed to be there. They come in. So we don't have to have these here. We can, we can fight those ones.
Speaker 1:But then some curses in your belief system A lot of times, like you said well, that one, you don't have to fight that one, that one, I just see you white knuckle holding on to it. That one we just got to let go, man, I think it's. I love the way that you do this. But yeah, we found the same thing those neurological regression, though. A lot of times when you look at what their defense system sometimes the people pleasing is the negotiator. Some are attacked, some are surrender and some are fight or flight. This is going to get into suppression, hide or retreat. Usually, if you see the health of their coping mechanism or the way that they protect themselves will give you the idea of what age they got stunted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I use. I use from the. So it's a combination of timeline therapy. Obviously in NLP there's timeline therapy but I use priority based muscle checking from body talk to know which age. And there can be a series with.
Speaker 2:This is interesting. There can be chain ages, a link of ages, so I'll actually find out to the day that they were imprinted. So I'll muscle check. It's applied kinesiology. So you're actually checking, kind of in using the wisdom of the body to guide the process. I'll find the location, I'll find the age and giving them that information is like it automatically gives their awareness, the queue and the and it goes. It just starts to do the work. So if you can get a neurological age in which this was imprinted, or ages because sometimes it could be a chain, a series of times that imprinted that are correlated, or time period Sometimes it can be a time period it was from this age to this age, and then it can happen in the womb as well. You know it can be imprinting from there. That actually triggers. It can happen genealogically, so it can be, and it can be ancestral genetically. So there's different factors.
Speaker 2:But if you can get the location and the and the time that it was imprinted, you don't need to know what the situation was. Right. That's what a lot of therapy looks at the story, what is the story? Because that's recollection, like people don't really know what happened. What happened was in your body, what happened is there. The memory is not distorted. Your stories, when you go to try and recall the past, are heavily distorted, especially if you have trauma. Especially if you have trauma, they are incredibly distorted. That's one thing that they found.
Speaker 2:There was a study done on children who were just, for example, circumcised. This is an early, early childhood trauma. For most men they don't even know it's a trauma that's affecting them. But men who exhibit the feeling like, hey, there's something wrong with me or there's something missing, there are, there is there's something missing. There's a part of your body that they took off at an age where they held you down and they did a procedure without freezing anesthesia and they did an MRI. This was back in the 80s when the MRI was just being kind of developed. A nurse was going to get her son circumcised and she was friends with the people who were doctors, who were developing the MRI and she said I would like to see what happens during a circumcision. Anyway, I'm going to do it. So why don't we do it and put him through the MRI? So they put the child, they strapped him down like normal inside the MRI machine but they did a baseline and then they were were scanning as they did that.
Speaker 2:The surgery His limbic brain spiked, his frontal cortex spiked, like areas of fight flight were just just going like crazy. He was screaming, all this stuff was happening. That lasted for at least 30 minutes. It somewhat came back to a somewhat normalized but there were parts that were still activated. They checked him a month later. Those parts had never returned back to normal function. The study showed there was permanent alteration in brain function from this event. This the limbic brain, the ability to interact socially, the ability to use language, the prefrontal cortex, the ability to ration these things were affected.
Speaker 2:And from such a small but heavily traumatic event being held down and having a party of body taken from you. Now this in African cultures was done as a ritual, as a rite of passage around puberty. It was a very healthy thing. At a mature age this is potentially a healthy thing, but at an age of an infant this is a hugely neurological, taxing, overstimulation, traumatic event that creates all sorts of power dynamics and struggles, especially in relationships. So a horrible relationship with your genitals, which is very important for men in terms of their manhood, in terms of their identity, their self-identity in consciousness, is held in their genitals. For men, the energetic we look at tantric perspective sexuality, their energy center that is positive, emitting energy is their genitals. Your genitals are external and they produce sperm which is excreted from the body. This is a production center. So man's positive not good or bad, but positive energy center is his genitals and a woman's is her heart. You see her breasts. They produce milk, they produce life-giving substance. That's her positive pole. And a woman's negative pole is her vagina. It's inward. She draws in substances, she takes in life there. And a man's heart is his negative pole. He's supposed to take it in. That's why when you have an armored heart, oftentimes we're not taking in the nourishment from life. So that's the de-armoring in the heart and this whole kind of philosophy around energy centers and in the body.
Speaker 2:If you go through a circumcision as a boy, you don't want to occupy your positive pole, you don't want to occupy your manhood, you're dissociated from it. That's a point of pain, not a point of pleasure. So you have this natural aversion to your masculinity, to your positive pole, to the place which is connected to your life-giving substance, like the intelligence in your genitals. Your testicles produce the substance that creates a body. What an intelligence you know stored in your body and now we're not occupying that part. So we lose consciousness function, we lose the ability to create, we lose the ability to stand tall within ourselves, to be firm. We're a little bit. We kind of become more fluid and more flexible. We move more in the feminine side, we embody that more. We don't necessarily gain access to our virility, so this can be just a simple event like that.
Speaker 2:I have worked with men who've had that be one of the main impacting moments in their life and they didn't even know, just like with me. The doctor said you won't remember. You won't remember. There's nothing you have to do Well with the skills that I have in terms of trauma integration work. If a child was going into a circumcision, let's say the parents decided they needed to do it if you do certain things while they're going through it or before they go through it, and if you do something shortly after, there should be no neurological effect because you can get them out of the dissociation. You can reintegrate their awareness and their nervous system to that part of the body you can.
Speaker 2:I used to do this work with body talk. Before surgeries I would do a session and the recovery time for the surgeries doctors were always amazed it was half of what the normal recovery time was, because when your body doesn't stay in a dissociated state, in a state of shock, it actually starts to heal almost immediately. The problem is we stay in shock for prolonged periods of time and we stay dissociated. If we can resolve the shock, which is a certain process that you do with the brain, you can integrate the brain back into kind of a through the corpus callosum, when the brain brings itself into a state of resonance. But there's another word for it coherence. If you can bring the brain back into coherence and you can bring the coherent brain in connection with the spot that it was associated from, it'll start healing almost right away. I do this with people Sometimes when they have like actual injuries.
Speaker 2:Right, my son. He smashed his head open on the pool. We had to go and take him through surgery and everything and I was doing this process because he was in shock. He was just like he's doing this process. He had a huge gash here and as soon as I started getting his brain balanced and I started linking the nerves back up, he was screaming and excruciating pain. I did it three times on the way to the hospital.
Speaker 2:By the time he was at the hospital he was just like totally calm, totally relaxed. He waited there calmly for five hours for the surgery. He came out by that night after the general anesthesia where, if he was jumping on the bed playing with a balloon, he was just like nothing had happened. But had I not done that and his brain had stayed dissociated from that part of the body and he was still in a state of shock that could have taken months.
Speaker 2:We would have seen that play out over months, if not years, of him piecing together that event, and he was able to do it almost immediately because of, again, I became the person that I needed when I was that age and I went through the surgery. I had all the skills and I needed to make sure that nothing traumatic would happen to my son, which was actually me and he went through that experience at two and a half. This is another thing that I know. As parents, we actually relive our trauma through our children at the age that they become the age that is our greatest trauma. We will start to relive that yeah that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what a fascinating setup you go through so much. I gotta go back through some of this a little bit and then I wanna circle back into being able to change the systems, like you did with your kid, because that's fascinating. That's amazing. By the way, I really think it's interesting how you said the correlation between the positive parts for men it would be positive as penis, for women it's heart, and then the negatives would be vagina and for men the negative is heart.
Speaker 1:I think that that's amazing, just looking at those two pieces and then having a disassociation with your most powerful side, which is like where I know a lot of women who are closed off heart and they really struggle with love and connection and relationships, and then I guess it's interesting. I guess because you think about guys who struggle with the dysmorphia part or something's lost or disassociation or even size or whatever. Their shame or issue would be that that would be hard for me to connect in that area too. Fascinating, it's neat to see that back and forth. Also, if women's strong side is heart and guys closed off side is heart, you think maybe that's why we like boobs so much. I have, I just have three reasons.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think that a lot of men, whether or not they know this and I witnessed this through, obviously, having a son I paid attention, I paid attention and I noticed all the neurological changes and when it occurred I was really paying attention. But sometimes men have won a disconnect from breastfeeding, just an abrupt disconnect, which is like hey, where did the love go? Like, where did it go? It's just gone. And that can be an association to breasts. The other thing is they can be disconnected from their heart and they're deeply seeking the nourishment and love from the feminine bull, from the feminine positive bull. They may have a mother that was harsh as well. That's definitely part of the mother. Wounding a critical mother or emotionally unavailable mother, that can definitely make them drawn to that area. But again, it's a cue they're trying to cue into an energy, they're queuing into an energy that they need inside of themselves, that they've disconnected themselves from, where they've been disconnected from due to certain events in their life.
Speaker 1:I think right now, I think we're onto something right now. So all the guys listening are like okay, so what I should be doing is my girl in order to help my trauma from breastfeeding. The breast case scenario is that they have to be like hey, baby, I need more boobies. Come on, don't quit hiding these things when we get home. It's in our breast interest for you to just free them. This is babe. Come on. Kai told me that for me to heal, I need more boobies, baby, so come on.
Speaker 2:You know, what's interesting as well is that a lot of women actually, they fantasize about breastfeeding their partner, and this can be something that you do with your partner. If your partner is pregnant, it can be very healing for both sides. And it's that a woman actually? Yes, there's a relationship of a woman to a child and that's where that natural breastfeeding will occur. But a woman also wants to be received and desired by her man and in giving her life-giving substance and being drank by her man, she will feel that some part of her is fulfilling a higher purpose to not the child but the man, in nourishing the man.
Speaker 1:So do you think that's maybe because I've never associated that to that before? But sucking on boobies you're like let's go. But I never was like I'm associating this to a breastfeeding more than like this is an awesome activity. I never, yeah, I'd never thought about that as being like I don't want to ruin it. By the way, I'm not trying to be like now, when I grow up, I'm hey, I'm going to be sucking on some boobies. I'm going to be like, just do it like we're breastfeeding, like we're not doing that. So, but I never thought of it that way. I never thought of it like the reason why.
Speaker 2:During. What happens for most parents is that becomes a no-go zone right, that was the sexual area for a man and it becomes the baby's property. And so a woman feels neglected sometimes there. That's what happens in the parenting relationship. And so, you know, she actually may crave that. She may crave to be taken or fed upon. She wants to be devoured by her man, you know, and that's just a part of it. But during love making there can be also women. Women sometimes have a negative association like I can't give that to my partner, I can't do this, and there's an insecurity around it. So in that sense it can be healing experience for both people, because the man might actually have this disconnection inside of him that's playing out in this attraction for breasts. It's just fantasizing, right, but if he… that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, if he does actually in some, in a sexual act with the right intention, consume as a man, it breaks the association for him as well from breast and breastfeeding is with my mom. I'm a boy, but this is like, this is a sexual thing. It just changes the associations. And also for a woman, this being her positive pole, if you stimulate her breasts, the rest of her body, her heart will open and the rest of her body will open. So when you stimulate the positive pole in a man or woman, that is what activates the energy centers in the rest of the body.
Speaker 2:Interesting and then the more correct sexually because naturally the penis is where their attention is and they can almost go right in right. But a woman needs a lot more time because her positive pole is her heart. So if you don't open her heart up, if she's not soft in her heart and she's not feeling love, she will not reach the deeper internal orgasmic states that are possible, which those are the life changing, transformative inner orgasms that women can have. And they don't have unless they're feeling open and safe, unless they're feeling it. And this energetic component to it has to be, has to be present too.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. What a cool way to explain that. Because, like, we do this. But I didn't understand it. And that's the reason why it's there, because this is, it's, it's just been you know for lack of a better word the experience of finding, trial and error, what works best. I didn't realize that, when you're doing this type of foreplay or this type of stimulation, that what I'm doing is opening her heart. I, you know, I didn't think that, but it's even funnier if you think like, hey, it seems like the fastest way to get your partner to open up is use your mouth.
Speaker 1:Just saying just saying, go to their, go to their positive spots, with your mouth Just saying, yeah, anyways, but that's amazing, it's amazing, yeah, it's crazy. I don't have any association on that and I don't think I. I honestly, I'll be just very open. I don't think I have any association to the mother aspect, and if I do, it's not conscious at all. I don't have any of that part to it. So, like it's interesting that that would be a subconscious reason for those things you know. So I, you know, maybe when we get to meet, I feel like if you're doing the tour and I get to meet you, maybe if you crack something in there that I don't know about, that'd be cool, cause I'm like I don't think I have that one but yeah, but it's this one Again.
Speaker 2:it's really okay If we look at it from more of a feminine, if we take the mother out of it and look at it from a feminine, feminine right, that mother wound that I was talking about earlier. In my specific case, with that traumatic event, I disconnected from my feminine, my feelings, my body, because I didn't want to be anywhere near it. So what do they need to do to get that connection? Women, I as a child, I was always hanging around girls.
Speaker 1:I was, I was just like drawn so were you hanging out as, like, this is my friend, or are you hanging out?
Speaker 2:as like I needed to get acceptance approval and I want to date. It was like I was drawn to them, like I was like drawn to the feminine. I was really. I had girlfriends at five and you know the little play, you know play dates when I was very young.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you were playing. You're like I'm a piano conductor, slash doctor.
Speaker 2:Let me play some piano for you. We'll do a little bit of a song over it later. Let me take care. You know you play, you play around the kids when you're young and for me it started early because I had this genital activation at two and a half.
Speaker 2:Like most kids don't necessarily realize there's that thing going on until maybe a little bit later, maybe seven, eight, you know, maybe that's when they start. For me it was like very present at two and a half because I had this surgical event and there's like what's going on down there. My genitals became very. I became aware and also pardon me was trying to heal that. I became very interested in how do I resolve this pain that's in there.
Speaker 2:And yeah, this almost connection or interaction with women started so that that I'm not sure if it's the same for other men, but for me it was that I had really pulled away from my, my feelings. Now again, before you should have seen me, I was very masculine and very sports oriented. I had some balance in the music stuff. But up until maybe five, six, seven years ago I really wasn't that connected with my feelings. I just felt intense feelings. I wasn't connected to them. I definitely didn't know what was stored in my body. That was complete. I was very active, I was working at every day, I was playing high level sports so balanced in that sense but I wasn't really connected to my body. Like that's the interesting thing, you can be using your body but you're not connected to it.
Speaker 1:Agreed man, I found the same thing. It's amazing, like, yeah, that's, I love what you're doing right now. This is like, I think like it's hard for people to understand these conversations when they hear it Like I found the same answers, just in a different way. But it's yeah, like, like even I'll just give you another example of not being connected with your body but still being very active. When people suppressed their heart side, like I had, we were suppressed from my feeling side, and guys have to A lot of times. It's very, very common, it's high majority. Guys have to shut down that side because we're not getting empathy, we're just not and it's not going to happen, and so we have to shut that part down, especially Western culture. It's there's not a lot of talk about like what's your man's feelings like, unless it's what your man is feeling, so that you can have something more Like. It's just they don't. It's more of a take mentality. So guys are often especially repressed in their like nobody cares. So why should I have these? And I did the same thing, where anything that was associated with a sadness or vulnerability or weakness or anything well, that was locked away and all of that would be converted into anger, then anger would be amplified. Now, huge abundance of anger. So the Hulk was always ready. You know, if you watched Avengers, they're like do you have to take time to change into the Hulk? He's like that's my secret, I'm always angry, you know, and then just turns into the Hulk and punches a giant monster. So, like, it's kind of like that.
Speaker 1:So the thing is, I also understood that I grew up in Sparta Like combat was just how you get the big piece of chicken. Like it didn't matter that we would fight over everything. My family still fights. They were like. I talked to them like last week and they're like, yeah, half the family has been in fist fights this week. Like it's just regular. Where I grew up in is a combat was normal. Well, I understand I can't attack my pack Nothing wrong with being a lion if somebody wants to come in the door and hurt my people but I cannot. I cannot roar, I cannot bite my own pack. It does not work. And so I often times I'm like okay, this system needs to be controlled. So I would go hard workouts. I'd be like we're going heavy. Today I power lift with my buddy. One of my, one of my men is 26 strongest man in the world and we'll talk workout all day. He's like let's go as heavy as we could go, bro.
Speaker 1:We had to try and take all of that, reserve energy for anger and let the steam off, and that was the like. But I was clever, though, because I'd be like that's motivation, and motivation equals progress. And look at my gains, check out my. I got it together because it's now positive. I have a positive thing. I call positive out, like I don't need to be sad, we're wasting time. I could just convert that to anger, convert anger into motivation. His workout workout is released and that's called progress. Check out my gains Boom Beat it.
Speaker 1:But the reality was which was crazy is once I started tapping into knowing my body side, like you said, like getting into my heart, and then I found there's a release system, those emotions if you don't trap them, they can go someplace and you can like okay, let that out. I don't give a shit if you cry in the shower. Tough guys, let it out in some way, shape or form. And what's crazy is, once I started connecting with that side, I didn't have enough steam and anger to work out and I'm like wait a second, I want to go work out and these workouts are like I don't think, I don't think I'm doing very much, I'll be trying to do it. I'm like it's not really anything here. I don't feel like doing it. I got no anger to push out, I'm just like, okay, I guess do some pushups or something. Like I had nothing to, there's nothing to keep the hawk at bay. It wasn't even close, because all the sadness and all the stuff that I'd repressed wasn't filtering anymore.
Speaker 1:And so I was like okay, I have to learn to rewire my entire motivation system, because now I have four outlets I've got my body outlet, my mind outlet, my spirit outlet and a heart outlet. So now I'm letting out in four different ways that I, you know, I find my own authentic way for each category that works fast. And so now I don't have any of this negative sadness and stuff going into anger anymore. So I'm like wait a second, I had to take a month and a half of trying out different styles of motivation to move towards pleasure and progress for myself, which is, eight different types of motivation.
Speaker 1:But it's no longer pissed and it's no longer move away from pain and I'm like well, I have to change the whole system then and now I work out and it's just I could just feel that connection of the pump and I'm like that just feels positive. And I don't do it because I need to let steam off. I do it because now it's moved towards like the pleasure of it and it's completely changed my whole workout. Like now you can't wait to be able to feel that pump, not because I need to keep the Hulk at bay to not attack my pack, but because now it just feels good to be connected with my body and a positive progress and not a you got to push it off or you're going to kill somebody today.
Speaker 2:I have that same experience. I was like this is like 23 or something. I was like at the gym every day and I realized, man, I'm working out so I can protect myself. Not because I love working out. I lost the motivation. I went through a whole restructuring of my body, did certain yoga practices, leaned out and then started building back up for what I need consciously, what do I need my body to be good for? And a lot of it was higher consciousness I want it to be a very energetic, alive body so I can change my workout to build it the way that I want. But before it was just completely unconscious, got to protect myself, got to be strong, got to be able to fight, and then I lost the fight. I lost, like, this desire to fight, that motivation went away and I'm like, well, what do I do with that now? Same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome, man. What like this is cool. I really enjoy talking to somebody who's found the same masteries I have, and I love that you come in from a different angle of attack. Yeah, I love it, man. Super exciting. All right, let's get back to the obvious here. We got to get back to some really important stuff, okay. So how are you having sex with your girl across the room? How did we do it? How are you like we're making love from like 60 yards away? How are you doing this? All right, let's get into the stuff everyone's been waiting for here All right.
Speaker 2:So my wife and I met six years ago at a retreat, at a retraining in Spain, sierra Nevada, with a well-known Tentric master. He was in his 70s at the time. He was well-known for energetic orgasmic work, so he was teaching we were doing a training on that and very much he was a conscious sex and relating training. And we were there the first day. We had a very brief encounter, magical encounter. We were kind of walking up, she was walking down the stairs, down the slope, and I was walking up to the room for the check-in and we just saw each other and there was this enveloping experience of awe. And what is this? This magical experience where we sat and we hugged for a while but we just, it was just this energetic, wow, something was there. We didn't say anything to each other, we walked away and then we had shown up early because the retreat started in two days. But they were going to do a ceremony, we were going to do a sandpager ceremony. So we had decided to do the sandpager ceremony and we were sitting in the room and they were doing the sandpager kind of prep and set up and they said you know, it's best if you kind of just stay in your own world and don't go off and mingle afterwards and this, and that they were kind of set it up. And so we're like, okay, sure, sure, and we go into the experience. We get our doses within 30 minutes.
Speaker 2:The tantric masters in the room. He's known for energetic orgasm. He does body work that you know. He can run his hand over your body and you're going to an orgasmic state. So within 30 minutes the women start orgasming just from the energy in the room. And then I start feeling orgasmic in my body, which is kind of weird and like that's really interesting, and I start going into more of a undulating wave like experience. And then more men start moaning and experiencing this and at some point, maybe it's like 30 minutes after that, I noticed there's this voice on the other side of the room that, as I'm experiencing what I'm experiencing my body, I'm hearing this voice back like a, like a you know, oh, what's that? And I'm experiencing like you were love making with someone. I didn't think anything of it because it's too bizarre, it's too wacky to think that something's really going on. But that went on for hours, like hours. There's four hours or so for the actual journey, but that one, I was good thing.
Speaker 1:Are we talking here Like what, what is?
Speaker 2:that Pedro.
Speaker 1:Are we doing? Are we doing ecstasy? And then we're just having this moment, like what is what's happening?
Speaker 2:Well, again, this is so. Here's the thing about plant medicine you will experience the energy of the facilitators. This is one thing people don't know. Plant medicine is not just plant medicine. You're experiencing the context of that plant medicine, of the facilitator. So if you have a facilitator who's like we got to go in and make people puke, that's the kind of journey you're going to go on. If you have a facilitator who's like, hey, we can bring people to energetic orgasm and they can their orgasmic energy can heal, that's the kind of experience you're going to have. I didn't know that before this journey I've done San Pedro before but the facilitators are actually holding almost like an energetic scaffolding. So when you go into medicine, you're you're subjecting yourself to that energetic scaffolding and hopefully those people are in a place of embodiment that is beneficial to you instead of not. I've seen a lot of bad things happen on plant medicine retraumatizations and worse things occur from that, with facilitators who are not embodying what the breath, what the person seeking the result wanted. That's another story.
Speaker 1:So you're talking about San Pedro. It's like a cactus that gives, like it's a toy. I've never heard of this thing before.
Speaker 2:So I'm like okay, so it is kind of like an MDMA, but it's a plant medicine.
Speaker 1:So it seems like it would fall in this category, so I was wondering is this ecstasy, that's MDMA and Mike.
Speaker 2:Okay, not everyone. I tell you, not everyone goes into full body orgasms with San Pedro it was.
Speaker 1:it was particular to the situation you just you just happen to have the right energy, was in the room, like that right person was there and you didn't know that. You didn't know, but you knew, but you didn't know, you knew one of those things, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, as it was going on, we were like, okay, we're having our own journey, right, we're in our own journey. But as soon as the ceremony stops, you sit up, we open our eyes and we are magnetized to one another. Like as soon as I open my eyes I'm drawn to this person across the room and she was drawn to me. We were just staring at each other. As soon as they said you can go, we just both stood up and walked towards each other. It was like energetic magnets. We there. There was not a conscious process going on, we just energetically magnetic towards one another. And we later we did the um, we did the integration circle the next day and the tantric master said you guys were making love during that whole ceremony. So we didn't know that that was occurring, but him watching and witnessing from the outside saw that this was going on and so we were bizarre.
Speaker 1:I was going to say thank God that this guy gave you the pickup line, because you can't be like hey, I was thinking about you the whole time, cause then you're creepy. But if somebody else is like you two got the magic in you. You're like. You see it too, and then you're like wait right.
Speaker 2:He was talking about you.
Speaker 1:I was like it's you girl, like I was thinking about you, then you're a creep. But if the dude's like you two magic, did you guys know? And like, yeah, I guess we did, and then it's way better, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:San Pedro, cactus energy.
Speaker 2:Make your orgasm super fingers, cause that's awesome, hey here's the thing 40 people in the room 20 women, 20 men. We were the only people who had that.
Speaker 1:So that's crazy man.
Speaker 2:So here's the thing that's our signature Somehow energetically we were soulmate, we were mad, that's like soulmate stuff.
Speaker 1:You guys felt it right away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that just happened to be the ceremony, like we were in that space for three weeks. That's our, that's our initiation, that's our foundation of our relationship. We didn't know each other's names before that happened, so I don't, we weren't. We have this, this path that we call a path of devotion and love, which is a spiritually oriented and sexually integrated path for couples that we just it's our signature. It's not that we tried, you know. We didn't wake up one day and go, oh, we would like to be sexually magnetized to one another and spiritually oriented in our relationship. No, it was just the signature of our relationship. We came to discover that this was our path. We came, we were given a path and we were available to it and we stepped into it together and that became a shared purpose. That became something that we both are bringing to this world. You know, again, I'll share the purpose.
Speaker 2:The main purpose is to preserve the innocence of children. That's the outcome. If you can create healthy couples that have a high level of devotion and sacredness and reverence for one another, that creates the right environment for children to thrive, so you handle, you know, raising children just with that. You don't have to get a lot more in depth. If you're in love and they're bathing in that love, they thrive. That's awesome. That's one aspect. But the other thing is if you understand also, you know how to create that healthy dynamic consciously, then you model the behaviors needed for that child to be successful in their relationships and a lot of the stuff is set out for them.
Speaker 2:But in terms of the work with couples, what we see is a lot of them are struggling around sexuality. They want something more for their relationship. They don't know how one partner wants sexuality, the other is kind of pursuing spirituality and if you merge the two, if you can find spiritual experiences through sexuality. This is the tantric path. Yeah, typically, typically one or the other will be more sexual. Right, one partner is typically more sexual and if it's the man, sometimes they'll be more physical.
Speaker 2:So the woman will be missing something emotional and it should be missing a deeper fulfillment If it's the other way around and the man is avoidant of sex, he may be again more in his, stuck in that feminine retraction in his own body. He may not be feeling his manhood, he may not be feeling his virility and the woman is desiring sex. But either way that's something that's a great connection point for people and if you learn to experience a spiritual experience through that, then you guys can come together as two people who are on a spiritual path and you can energize your spirituality with your sexual energy, which is pure life force.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. It's totally different answer too, because I know a lot of people who are in unhealthy relationships where they've been mind fucking each other for a long time. They're not doing it this way. Your way is way better. That's more fun, you're just fucking their head up at this point and you know what that's?
Speaker 2:the interesting thing is that people want people realize like we got to work out this conflict, but they don't know how to do it. They don't know how to make love to their conflict. They don't know how to take their conflict and transform it into love. And that's what Tantric is. We're not, typically we don't associate ourselves with Tantric because that has a really bad associations. We come from those teachings and we have integrated those understandings of masculine, feminine polarity and how we can use those to create energy and create spiritual energy. But you know, in terms of calling it Tantric, we don't call it that. What's?
Speaker 1:the negativity for that? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't like.
Speaker 1:Tantric experiences I've had have like been like we're just rocking and connected and we didn't know we were doing that. We were doing it. We're like I'm having. Like this is where I understand. I think a lot of guys may not understand that like we can have an orgasm without ejaculation, Like they don't know that and so, like I know, when you're saying I'm having four hours and dudes like four hours are coming, no, you're not. Like, no, no, it wasn't that I'm, I'm not ejaculating for four hours. Like a fire fucking host.
Speaker 1:No, like you can still have that like release without you know, like coming all over the place.
Speaker 2:So we've done that. When that energy releases from through the genitals, if you learn to direct it up the spine, it just keeps circulating, it becomes like a wave and it just circulates and undulates and it can last for hours. You can be in that state. You know, we've my wife and I again, because we have this energetic polarity, we can hug and be in an orgasmic state just because the energy is is right, like there's a polarity right. If you have a positive pole of a battery and a negative pole and they connect, there's a circuit of energy that amplifies. You can learn to do that with your body, with your partner, and that creates the deeper and more profound experiences. It's no longer friction based, it's like an amplification of your energy. And when you're experiencing that, you can amplify that energy to a much higher vibration and frequency and that becomes a spiritual experience.
Speaker 2:Tantra itself a lot of it gets a bad rap because of this, of the people who are doing tantra. There's a lot of abuse, power and in the workshops we do we don't do anything unclosed, we don't do anything tantric, we're not messing around with people's energy. We're teaching them how to access thrown energy in their own body through different embodiment practices, and so the transformation happens from within them, not from us being a master of energy of this, and that there's a lot of acquiescing power in those dynamics that we prefer not to get involved in All right.
Speaker 1:Talk to me as somebody that didn't. Tantra is not my style. This is my, that's not my practice. So I'm like we've done this but not through. Like I didn't say in Pedro, I'm not on any Medicaid Now we did have some psilocybin runs that turned into the hours of. There's a lot of friction also, so don't get me mixed up. Like there was a lot of things happening here and so you know those things happen too. But like so I know that there's ways to do that. I also know you can physically train your body to understand the PC muscle and how you're able to control those contractions and things. That there's all. There's tactics, like I've known that. But to say like like I don't know what the the you said power dynamic, is this like from teachers who are like you know I'm the boss and so I'm going to do tantric stuff to people I don't honestly know what you're talking about. So what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:In the tantric world you see a lot of sexual abuse just because people are in a very vulnerable state. You're going to someone to teach you on sexuality, and that person ends up either sexually assaulting them or abusing them or doing something to them. So we're not really doing that. It's a different world, but what we do is we teach people how to access their positive poles or their energy, through embodiment practices and through polarization practices. So, if a man is in his positive pole, if he's occupying his genitals and a woman is occupying her heart, there's this attraction and energetic desire that gets created.
Speaker 2:You know the honeymoon phase. You know how good that feels in the beginning. There's that, that, that attraction. Even if that's gone, you can recreate that with polarity. So that's what people need to learn after the honeymoon phase wears off is actually how to create polarity in their relationship consciously, because if you do that, you will experience that same kind of attraction for your partner. What happens, though, is partners normalize after a certain period of time together, so the man kind of normalizes into his feelings to be more sensitive to the woman and to adapt and to be able to live, be livable. Do you know, after men give father a child, their testosterone drops by 50%.
Speaker 1:Oh, for sure, Also the whole dynamic. I mean, like I've noticed also with it seems like each level of commitment, the rules seem to change, where the guys will give more and the women seem to give less.
Speaker 1:So, like this is just the dynamics. But again, I'm Western culture, you're in Bali, I'm in America, and so I'm watching where, like that honeymoon phase and when people are dating and not living together, it's there's so much chemistry, fire and acceptance and good, positive energy. But then, once people move in together, especially here, like well, now we're invading each other's routines and so now the way I like the hamper, or the way I put my stuff in the bathroom, or the way that I do the dishes, or the way that I leave my whatever out on the table, or the way that I do my hobbies or my wind down, it starts to overlap. And when it starts to overlap, that's when you start seeing people start getting into like well, now I have criticism instead of acceptance. Where before, if you hung out with your buddies or played video games or did sports or whatever you did, I love that about you. Well, now it starts impeding on, like well, I don't like your sports buddies at our house because it takes away from our time, and I don't like you're still doing that again. Why aren't you doing the thing that cleans the house? I like that better, my routines.
Speaker 1:And then it starts to change the dynamic. There's no more acceptance, and then get married and how people will now subconsciously associate what marriage is to my relationship. And then I see, most commonly people start to subconsciously become like one of their parents and they start realizing the other person starts acting like the other one and they're like I really didn't get along with my mom, I was really cool with my dad, and then like so I started being more like my dad and now she's acting like my mom, you know. And then vice versa. And so you start seeing people subconsciously start to mimic what they believe marriage is and turn into their parents and then throw a child on that. Well, now the whole entire dynamic changes. But with each level that the guy gives more commitment, it seems like the woman seems to retract less attention, less love, less acceptance, and that's just what I noticed, pattern wise. So it seems like the more a man gives, the less he'll receive, and the like the the more a woman receives, the less that she'll give.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we have processes that help people consciously create, because what you're talking about, what we call it, is the relationship blueprint. The default Like after honeymoon phase wears off, your default conditioning will flare up and, unless you know how to reprogram that, 90 to 95% of your interactions will be unconscious enactments of that default. And so we need to consciously create a way of being a shared vision for one, but a way of being who we're clear of, who we are in the relationship and our partners clear of who they are and what we're creating together, as well as what the individual daily responsibilities are. To show up and create that.
Speaker 2:If you don't have shared vision with your partner, likely you're just going to play out the dynamic of the default. You're going to reenact your parents' dynamic unconsciously, and there's no, there's nothing to be ashamed about in that, because we're just not taught how to create the shared vision. That's it. We just end up with the tools. So if we do get the tools we found when we work with people by giving them certain tools, if they create conscious scaffolding or conscious structure, then automatically certain things will start to align in their relationship. But before, we're small, pickering small problems. The shared vision resolves a lot of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah, and like, I love the way you explain that because, like we do, we do a little work in this area. But I love hearing an expert in that area go like no, no, no, there's a thing there, because I catch the patterns, like you said, I see the patterns, I see the patterns and then, like, then it gets into the shame system and it's like, why am I supposed to do all this? Like, even I've got a feminine coach coming in tomorrow Uh, I'll be, he'll be live with us tomorrow and that's Miriam Belcher.
Speaker 1:And she gets in the same thing where, like, the women come in with this real negative energy and they're wondering why the guys aren't coming in with positive energy. But it does seem like if a woman has a negative positive source, it also affects the guys positive source. So, like the guys, like I don't, I don't want to make love with you right now. You're fucking mean, like you're nagging and complaining and bitching and somehow I'm supposed to like be attracted to you, but you're not even fun to be around anymore. And why would I have to be fun when you don't do this and don't do this and don't do this? It's like this endless loop of like. It seems like there's no appreciation, and that lack of appreciation, lack of praise, lack of encouragement makes a guy go. Why would I want to give you more safety, security and all this stuff when you're just cruel about it? It's a really negative system. That seems like.
Speaker 2:Negative is that both people are in their you know their negative self and honestly, what I've noticed again is having that vision. It just puts leadership into the piece. You know both people have to take responsibility. Both people have to create some change. Both people have to make positive steps in the right direction. You can't just be one, because one person can be negative enough to derail the whole process. So both people have to get on board and I think you probably noticed that too. We see it in the work. In a relationship, two people have to be showing up to do the work, otherwise it's not going to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, speaking of doing work, is your wife cooking or something? Yeah, she's cooking. There's some there's some bang going on. I'm like what are we having for dinner right now? What is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's off there making some food right now.
Speaker 1:But I know that you're. I'm actually really excited I'm going to start shutting us down just because, like this, I could probably talk with you for like nine more hours and be entertained. Let's go ahead and transfer over to you guys. Have a tour coming up and you're going to be touring, and if people are like, okay, this dude sounds awesome, and I got to go to his thing and I got to find out who this guy is, tell me about the tour and then go through every single location and date I'm just kidding. But, like, tell us a tour, how can they find out the information and how can they go? Like man, I got to, I got to meet this guy and I'm actually really hoping that you come somewhere anywhere near me, because I got to beat you too. I'd be lovely to hang out with you.
Speaker 1:That'd be great.
Speaker 2:And so we we we're mainly going to be in the Phoenix and LA area, so we're going to be there in September, october. We're going to be in Phoenix doing different two hour workshops, or two hour workshop is like a taste of this embodied polarity, and the retreat is the. These workshops are called rise and love, and so the purpose is to be able to raise your consciousness around relating and and also sexuality, and to connect into that positive pole within yourself so you can experience polarity with your partner. Whether or not you're in a relationship where you're trying to attract a partner, it all works the same. Polarity exercises are the same.
Speaker 2:So we do that in a two day format. We're going to do a it's not solidified yet, but we're going to do either a two or three day workshop in Sedona in middle of October, and then we're going to have probably a one day event in Phoenix as well, and in kind of mid September, and between that we're going to go to LA and we're going to work around in LA and we are potentially available. Where we have some freedom in our schedule, we're available to do some talks or some some workshops in different parts of the United States. So if there's something nearby that you can recommend space, we might, we might consider coming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm near the Chicago area, so I'm the other I'm like middle, middle part of the country, so it's going to be a little ways away. I definitely want to check out some of your info, though, and see if, like, my girl's, like, let's go check this thing out because, like we're not, we don't have a sexual issue, are we? We are solid in that area. Like we don't have, we are not. One of those Like, how are you getting her to do it? We're like she's probably waiting for me now and so, like, like, but I do want to know more about this closed heart thing and being able to find that connection thing. It sounds fascinating and, like, I want to be able to have people plug into that. It'll be cool if you're like, hey, let me do like the spot next thing. And to go like, oh, dude, right, there is your inner child. Shit, that's all messed up. But I'm like, oh and I'll. You can spot a trauma out of me and I'm like oh, yeah, that that honestly there's.
Speaker 2:There's space for that in our, in our three day or two three day. We're going to do a lot of that work. That's the main thing. We need to unwind people in their nervous system but also raise the frequency of their energy so they can experience these more heightened states. And that's what kind of that tantric philosophy is is just that you can transform your energy from a low state into something higher. You can transform hatred or anger into love through lovemaking. So we do. We will be covering a lot of that in these workshops the rise in love workshops.
Speaker 1:Are you going to be Sampe, drawing people to what's that? No, we don't. We don't work with that.
Speaker 2:That was something that helped us, but we don't work with the medicines like that. We work with activating people's own energy within themselves, and that and that that does work really well.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, what I'm going to?
Speaker 2:do just share the website. It's devotionalovecom. We'll be posting once we have the dates. Even the tickets will be posted in the link so you can get tickets for that. Get the information on there, devotionalovecom. And then, in terms of men's work, my men's work processes, I also have a man of present stuff on and that is a place where men can come and I have a system for that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome and this is all on the website which I'm putting the links in the bio. People can click on all your stuff. But this is awesome, man, hi Jordan, yeah such a great honor bro, this was so good.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. It's an honor to hang out with you. And like a salute, like, if anybody's listening to this is Rick of this guy, like that guy's pretty good. I'll be like, listen, this is my seal of approval and I don't just throw it around. I'm like hi, jordan's a real deal. And as far as when I hear like different warrior types, you know, like I said, I'm mind, body, so I know my strengths on this side, my mastery here, but I'm still growing heart and soul side, and so to hear a spirit warrior going, this is the way that works. And like an effortless and masterful way, getting to the same conclusion from the Yang side, and the Yang side Like you're my opposite side, but coming to the same conclusion, it definitely is a display of mastery. And so like high honors, man, you're the real deal. And if people get a chance to work with you, man, I'm, I'm, I would send them your way for that aspect.
Speaker 2:Thank you, man, really appreciate it, and likewise I see you've done the work for us to be able to have this conversation with the depth and share. It's been an honor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure We'll talk again. Let's keep in touch and I'm going to let. I'm. I'm looking into your stuff. If I can get out to Sedona, I'm definitely going to come hang with you. Man, It'd be awesome just to just to hang out and have some fun just talking to some more.
Speaker 2:So yeah, great conversation.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Kai.
Speaker 2:It's my evening tonight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you too, man. I'll talk to you later. Cheers, bye.