A Conversation With John Holley, Friend, Colleague, and Fellow Cancer Survivor

In this episode we share the powerful and faith-filled story of John Holley, Dean of Technology at Calhoun Community College in Decatur, Alabama—a man whose life reflects resilience, purpose, and unwavering trust in the Lord.

John’s journey through cancer was not just a battle for health, but a walk of faith. In the midst of uncertainty, God met him with strength, peace, and a deeper sense of hope. Today, as a survivor and a brother in Christ, John continues to live out that hope—encouraging others through both his testimony and his leadership.

Serving in higher education, John invests daily in the lives of students, helping them build their futures while quietly pointing to something greater—faith that endures and hope that carries us through life’s hardest seasons.

This episode is a reminder that hope is not found in the absence of trials, but in the presence of God through them.

No matter the journey, no one walks alone—and hope is always within reach.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Hello, friends. I'm your host, Dr. Dave Leighton, and thank you for joining me on Our Journey to Hope. This podcast is a place where together we explore how to discover, sustain, and sometimes regain hope. Wherever you're listening, let's take a deep breath, open our hearts, and continue this journey towards hope. And remember, no one walks alone. In today's episode, I'm speaking with a very special person, somebody I've known for several years. I'm speaking with John Hawley. John and I are former colleagues. We both, he continues to, but we both used to work together in the uh Alabama's community college system. And we share in common that we are both cancer survivors. And most of all, we are brothers in the Lord. And I'm going to let John introduce himself. Hello, John.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Hey Dave, thank you for having me on. It I tell you it is an absolute honor to get to be on your podcast. And uh I want to tell you I've I appreciate our relationship over the years from the community college system uh to today, uh, after you retired and moved on to your next part of life. Uh I've reflected back a lot of times and as we worked statewide on courses and things like that, I've told people that uh Dave Leighton and Ted and some of them were uh ahead of their time a little bit. And I wish some of us uh had embraced it a whole lot more 20 years ago, you know, um because a lot of those plans of instructions and uh you know knowledge, skills, abilities, and metrics, uh, you know, we would be so much further along if we had really had time to dig into those a lot of times. So it was yeah, it was good times. You're missed, but you did a good work with us, Dave.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

So thank you. I I loved it. And it was a great portion of my life career. And Ted Davis was such a wonderful partner. I I love Ted. Ted and I got along day one.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Well, that's good. Good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

I still stay in touch with him. I hear him every now and then and uh I let him know you said hello. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Well, it's you know, we've got great people at the college system and uh still today, but there's been some great ones such as yourself came through there, so I'm very much appreciative, and we're still using a lot of that today.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

So Well part of my joy uh I mean it was fun to work at the systems office and and work with and and a lot of folks that we worked with have retired. Trish Jones just recently retired. But Trish and I and uh you know, it was just Matthew Hughes and and some of the others, it was a lot of fun to work with. Yes. But uh still stay in in tune with what goes on in the college system and there's some exciting things going on. Alabama's got it going, we always have.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

And uh you know, uh what and Calhoun Community College, oh my goodness. You are you know, with all that's gonna be going on right now, you have no idea how huge it's gonna be for Huntsville to host a headquarters for Space Command.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Yes, yes, we that is unbelievable. We are just in the sweet spot here in the state with the growth we're having, the economic growth, community growth, population growth. It's uh we're we're living in good times, Dave, and and we recognize that uh there's really no place better to live. But I'm gonna I'll tell you from from the Tennessee line down to the port of mobile, there is a lot of great things going, especially in our colleges. I I'm just uh every time I get out of uh out of my uh area and and see the other parts, it's just I'm always impressed. There's there's great work going uh all over the state right now.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

And and what I love about it is yeah, it it's it's kind of like uh the the ministry of our Lord. He came to save humanity, but he does so one soul at a time. And that's what Calhoun does. They don't save the world. Okay, they save Alabama. But you do so one student at a time. And and that's what that's that's what's beautiful about the community college system. You can take that time with every student.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yes, that to add on to that is just to see the changes in lives. And I know you you hear that, but you know, a community college student needs to go to work, they want to go to work. They're you know, it's it's time away from work and family for them, and and we see that change uh every day here. And so, you know, of course, we need to be paid and we need something to survive on, but uh it's such a great benefit. I tell people, uh, from my days in the classroom as a faculty member, today I'm walking through a store somewhere and somebody comes up and tells me about their family and everything, and you know, you you're scratching your head because you kind of remember them, but but you don't remember them. And it's you know, you walk away and they're telling you, hey, we bought a house and we've done this, and and uh first person, you know, first person in my family to complete college or something. It's just man, it it it just really makes my day. That's that's probably the greatest thing. It's what what you mentioned, we just see that change. We see them improve their lives if they're willing to. So yeah, it's it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Well, yeah, um, I've I volunteered our local cancer center, and the nurse that took care of me was a graduate from Wallace in Selma. She went through the nursing curriculum that I helped develop. I can't tell you how proud I am of that girl. And she was such an incredible nurse for me, and I watch her now, and I get to work with her now. And um and and Brentley is just a treasure. She she's I told her I told her, I said, when I was getting treatment from her, I said, Brentley, if I ever have a dog, I'm gonna name it Brentley, because you're my best friend. Oh she said she said, Mr. Dave, I'm not sure how to take that.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Oh well, it's uh I tell you, Dave, I know this is a podcast and and not really video or anything, but you have me really smiling over here. That's uh some good things like it.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Well, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

All right.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

We're we're wasting our listeners' time, so I guess we better get back on track. Well, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself uh and your uh what you do now and your role. Just tell us about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Well, you know, when people ask me, you know, to say a little bit about your bio or something, I I really want to start off with is I'm a persevering Christian, and that that's what I want to be known as. Uh I'm not a perfect and and I have so many faults, but uh, you know, we're trying every day and trying to become more resilient every day. Um, of course, I'm also here at Calhoun Community College. I'm the Dean of Technologies. I've been with Calhoun a little over 22 years and um over a decade in the role I'm in now here. And so we do a lot of workforce and career tech training. Uh and so I love this college. I've been a part of it for so long. I love the people, the faculty. Uh we got a a great thing going on here. So that's that that is my career right now. Uh I've been married uh to my beautiful wife, Tracy, for 31 years.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Umstanding.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Yeah. She just retired after 27 years as a special education teacher, and she well deserves it. I'm glad I'm glad she's getting to do what she wants to for a little bit. And uh I have a wonderful son named Spencer. Uh he's 21 years old. Um, you know, uh great young man, uh works every day. Uh still eats me out of house and home a little bit, but hey, it's uh uh I'm very proud of where we're at with our uh with our son and my wife. And they're my rocks, Dave. I mean, they really are. They're they're the solid foundation I have here on earth. So uh great family. I grew up here in Alabama. Um, you know, I really my wife and I both, we worked our way through school, uh, me in the trades and and of course her going through uh school of education. And uh, you know, we we're Morgan County people. We have a cattle farm. Uh some of the best times of our lives, I tell people have been doing mission work in the church, uh, children's homes, pretty much. Uh look back on it. We haven't really been able to do as much in the last few years, but looking back on it, uh so many people that we've uh that we have reaped benefits from by doing mission work and has been such an encouragement for us. We've just we've always enjoyed challenges. I I kind of uh uh like getting outside of my comfort zone. Uh, you know, it it pushing myself a little bit uh outside of the comfort zone is I guess is one of those things at the end of the day, I feel a little bit satisfied at times. So uh course my wife is totally uh opposite. She she is absolutely Tracy uh does not like to get out of her comfort zone whatsoever. So it may be while we work together at times, but she she'll give me that look a lot of times, like sure we're doing this or something.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

But yeah, I share that with my wife as well. Same kind of thing. Yeah, so it's good.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

I I am absolutely blessed, I can tell you, Dave. So good things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

So yeah, I I love seeing I follow you on Facebook and I love seeing your family. You you get you do have a beautiful family. Well, I appreciate that. By the way, I enjoyed that picture you had posted the other day of those those uh new calves. That that's great.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah, this is this is a good time of year, and and I'm gonna I'm gonna go back to my son. He does a lot of of it for us. He takes care of it, he's matured into it, and and uh, you know, we it's it's calvin season and green grass, and I tell you, uh it's uh you want to there's nothing to compare really witnessing your child be born or anything else, but but I tell you, you just want to be in reinforced about a creator and stuff. You watch these little calves hitting the ground and they know what to do, and yeah it it just really uh it's it's my favorite time of year. I love spring.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

I love and I saw I saw Mama Cow was keeping her eye on you, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yeah, I think we were watching each other on that one.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's great. Uh yeah I I always enjoyed working with you because y you're a dynamic person with something going on and and uh all right. Let's talk about let's talk about this next mountain you're getting ready to climb. Uh tell us about that.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Well, this is uh kind of things that keep you up at three o'clock in the morning. You know, we'll talk about hope and worry uh a little bit here, but uh Dave, uh as I mentioned earlier, I I've been with the college over 20 years and uh uh you know you go through life changes. Uh, you know, it's I've been passionate, I've been energized, I've just I've loved the college here, but uh I've really and then over the last year recognized that I'm ready for a change in life. And and that may be, you know, kind of uh um maybe a little selfish. I don't know. Uh, but it's I'm ready to do something different, a different challenge and and things like that. So I've loved serving our community. Uh in 2016, uh we decided to jump in politics and ran for a local school board here in Morgan County uh and won that election and and uh have served now 10 years on that school board. Uh probably will not ever run for that, no matter how the next chapter of my life runs, but uh it's time for somebody else to serve there. But we've serve in our community, we've done some great things. Um and we've been able to do some things in the school and just uh kind of chase a rabbit here for a second. It's something that I'm so proud of. And I I'll tell you, yeah, I couldn't have done it without a lot of encouragement and people pushing me. But uh in our K-12 systems, you know uh how science is being taught and things like that. And and Dave, I think you know me well enough to know that I firmly believe we had to have a creator. There is a creator of everything whatsoever. So one of the really neat things uh that we did is uh Dr. Mike Houts that helps with Apologetics Press, and I know you know a lot about Apologetics Press from Montgomery. We brought him into a lot of our uh junior high schools to do presentations. I was able to kind of, you know, push that a little bit to get them in there to do some presentations so we can kind of uh you know help these students open their minds up so they're not just being taught one side of uh of this and you know, of creation or evolution or something. So it, you know, I look at it as, yeah, we've made a lot of decisions about football and personnel and things, but we've also been able to, you know, help push uh some of these things into the school so we can make sure that we get a creation side and uh uh a godly side into some things uh in there. So, you know, been very proud of what we've done there. And so I love serving the community and you know, when you put all that together with my time at the college and stuff, uh this past December, I got to call and and asked my interest in it, gauge my interest in running for the the revenue commissioner here in Morgan County. And, you know, I was like, I don't know if that, you know, works for me or not. And you know, they kind of uh pushed me a little bit here and there. And I went back and forth and I had to go speak with my wife, of course, because after 2016, I promised her we'd never get out there and campaign again. You know, she just doesn't like doing that. And uh she said, hey, let's go for it. Uh and so we we jumped in it and we'll see uh see how it goes. You know, I uh I love Faulkner University. Uh I I got a MBA from there and and I've used it a lot in in my leadership roles. And you know, maybe, maybe just maybe come May 19th, we'll use it in this next chapter of the life, uh, however it works. Um, I I've got it written down here on my desk. I keep it with me all the time. My wife gave it to me, I think, but uh, you know, it's uh Proverbs 3, 5 through 6, if you remember that. It says, seek his will and all you do, and he'll show you which path to take. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not depend on your own understanding. So let me tell you, I'm pretty simple. I don't know if I can understand my I have my own understanding right now. And like I said, I I lay up at night sometimes, awake and 3 a.m. questioning why I decided to jump into this. Win or lose, we're gonna make a uh change this year. I I've let the president know we're gonna make a change here at the college. And it's uh it's just it's time, it's time to move on. You may have experienced that when you did the Air Force, military, and from the college system to your next thing. So I'm excited and and you know, we'll we'll provide somehow or another. We're gonna be in good shape, however it works out.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

So well, I'm I'm proud that you're doing it. We need good men and women in political office. I feel like half the problems in our in our nation would be resolved themselves if we just had good men and women. Uh and I know I'm making a judgment values judgment there, but um Yeah, there's some core principles that people need to have and sometimes they don't have 'em. Yes. So all right.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Well, it's we're gonna give it our best shot, and we'll try to do our best every day. So we'll see see how it works out.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Well, I'm following it, I'm watching it, I'm praying for you, brother. I I I really I was excited when I heard you announce that you were gonna do it. I go perfect. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I love I love having those prayers, trust me.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

I maybe maybe the governor will be next or senator.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Go ahead on record, I'm done after this one. So it's time for me to go home, look at those cows, probably, do some mission work.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

So Well, I'm I'm glad and and yeah, you talk about uh I remember when I was a young sophomore in college back in the mid seventies I was attending Fried Hardaman University and we had an older man as a student and he was a retired Air Force Master Sergeant. And I had I had just enlisted in the Air Force and was finishing the semester before I went in. And and um he and I sat and talked and he said no matter how long you stay in, there'll come a day when you say, you know what, it's time to move on.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

And and uh that's right. Uh after I had my twenty some years in, it was like, okay, it's ready to move on. And I felt the same way with the college system. It's like, okay, I I I've I've accomplished what I wanted to, I I I'm ready to move on. You understand it, I think, that you're gonna be able to do it. Yeah, and and so it's great. And and by the way, it you know, it's just it just keeps you going. It's just uh my wife and I, when I retired from the college system, we helped start a new congregation of the Lord's Church up in Pennsylvania, and then we heard sojourners and and I just love doing it. It's just great. Okay. Uh it's not about me. It's about you, brother. And and together it's about the Lord. It really is. All right. Well, my show is about hope, and uh I can hear it in your voice uh and and in what you're doing, you understand hope very well. And and what I try to do is strike a balance in the show about uh a secular concept of hope and then also a spiritual concept. Not everybody's ready to hear the gospel and and uh hope found only in our Lord, but uh so we you know, we get them there but a step at a time. So I love to explore with my guests their understanding of hope because every time I've asked that, I get myself, I get better understanding. So let's talk about that. How do you understand hope? And and let's look at it both ways, secular and spiritual.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Well, Dave, that's I I'm gonna tell you that's a very interesting question. And and you you probably questioned yourself a lot of that. I don't, you know, when I think about that, I don't I really don't know that I have the answer, but I will address it from John's point of view and his opinion, maybe, maybe how much opinions are worth, but we'll we'll address it this way is you know, my view on secular hope is just very short-sighted uh hope. Nothing wrong with it, but it's no it's a temporary uh hope. Um, you know, you mentioned us both being cancer survivors, and uh, I don't think it was long after I'd had some surgery you visited here at the campus and and I was healing up from that, and I was still transitioning through through some emotions and some things like that, Dave, and and you were an encouragement to me that day that you stopped by to see us. So um, but I'll tell you, and you may have mentioned this on your podcast, and I know the kind of your story, you've you've discussed it with me, but uh, you know, when I was told I had cancer, I was absolutely shattered, Dave. I mean, I I am shattered. Um I don't unless you've you know lived with that, I don't know how to how to really explain it. And and maybe I was more on the extreme side. I don't know. I've questioned that at times, but uh I for a time there I just I really lost any hope. I'll uh I try to be honest with people about that, and that's something I've tried to work on, is just being very open about that. I I could not at all see a bright side or a good outlook for a short run.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Rather, I gotta I I I have shared when I got my diagnosis, it rocked my world. And and um I went I didn't lose hope, but it sure was challenged.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yeah. So, you know, I I found mentally I started focusing on a lot of negative and all the bad. Uh-huh. Sure. Um and and I hope, you know, discussing a little bit, somebody listening might might, if they ever get in this, that they'll know that there's there's more um yeah to come. And, you know, I was in my mind those negative thoughts, and I'm thinking about, you know, all the treatments, how bad a shape I'm gonna be. You know what I'm saying? And all these things uh that just challenge you to have any hope, you know. Uh, you know, and what happened is though, is I had to recognize, you know, my doubts. I had to personally uh, you know, say, why am I having these doubts? I had to recognize my my hopeless shape that I was in, kind of or the you know, the the path I was going down. Because once you start down that path, it's hard to get your hope back. And I'm still kind of sticking with secular hope right now. You know what I'm saying? I'm starting with short-term things like that. But when you start down that path, it all starts starts challenging your faith and your faithfulness, you know, and things like that. Um and so, you know, once again, I'm gonna go back to my wife, uh, and I'll probably mention her a few times, but she was such a rock for me, and she's the one who's snap her fingers and tell me to get out of this kind of deal and and get up and we're we're doing this and fighting this. But it was a period in my life that and and she really started it for me of uh I'd say a point of self-evaluation with my hope. Um you know, Dave, I have a wonderful wife and son, I've mentioned it a couple times. Um I had everything I today I have everything that is considered successful in this world. Um but I still felt hopeless. You know. Maybe you know, I had to really in that evaluation, I had to really look at, you know, uh the things in my life that maybe were preventing me from having hope that I needed to have.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Okay. That's interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

And and this is what I found when Myself is I had to really be honest with myself. And I tell people, you have to be really honest. You know, Dave, it it seems to me that, and it this really came to me in the last few years, is I can be honest with Dave, I can be honest with my wife, I can be honest a lot of times, but it is so hard to be honest with ourselves sometimes. It is really uh hard to do that and self-evaluate, but I had to really just dig down in my gut, you know, we have to get in our conscience. And uh, you know, once I started looking inward on some things, uh, you know, and I decided then that there's things I needed to address and change in my life. You know, there was things that I'd focused priorities that uh uh really uh probably helped diminish my hope, if that makes sense. That that short-sighted hope, uh, you know, I consider myself. Uh and it was because I put a lot of hope and a lot of faith in secular things in this world, the short term, the temporary. Uh, you know, you you get that, Dave, you get those uh, you know, results back, and you know, you get home and your mind's racing, and one of the first things you do is start writing passwords down and getting your financials together for your wife. You know what I'm saying, and and things like that. And I chuckle because I did that too. But but those things matter. Yeah. But you know, when we and it matters, and it and you know, we need to have hope for that short-term and temporary, but there's also, you know, this hope that we gotta have in a long term and what's coming, which builds our faith. And so when I consider this subject, I find it just very interesting that you know, motivation, hope, uh, faith, trust, uh, wisdom, they're so braided together with each other. I don't know if you found that or other people mentioned that, but they can't really be separated at all. They they all work together. And um, you know, it it's just uh once you do that kind of that self-evaluation, and you get past some of that worry. And and of course, I'll go back to uh a story that you and I know well, and and hopefully your listeners, if they don't, they'll go read Matthew 6. I hope I got that right, Matthew 6, but Jesus uh has a sermon and and he preaches on about everything you can preach on in that sermon. But he gets into a lot of worry. You know what I'm saying? Toward the end of that.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Don't be anxious, he said.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Yeah, he preaches a lot about worry. So once you get past some of that worry, and you know, I I recognize to myself that uh I need to place my hope on the right trajectory. That's where I needed to be. I needed uh to focus on hope that included God's will and not just my will, not just that secular will. So, you know, I spent my life uh with hope of things that really didn't reinforce my faith.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

And, you know, I could say I'm kind of living that right now. Um I'm uh, you know, I hope I'm elected May 19th or running this election. I I really do. Uh I know the goal that I want. It's short term. Uh I want that goal. I feel confident or we wouldn't have jumped in that race, you know, uh qualified for it. Uh I know the outcome. I'm motivated to do it. Uh, but you know, it's still just a temporary hope that I have there. It's not the where the right trajectory that we really need to look in that, you know, when we're looking at hope and where we're placing our hope. Uh, you know, I'll I'll go back to cancer, Dave. I I'm a poster child for uh uh good results and being blessed uh since my diagnosis and surgery, uh, you know, everything went the way it's supposed to be. Uh but just last week, um, you know, uh I went for a CT scan. Uh and you know what it's like once you're in this, uh you know, you start getting blood work and then you do it every few months for the next years or whatever. So uh, you know, my results from day one have always come back perfect. Always come back perfect. But you know, you start you start having this little doubts which affect your hope again. You know what I'm saying? And so uh you have to you have to check it and you have to decide, look, what these results come by is just another season in my life.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

But I need to be placing my hope in God and that strength that's gonna build my faith. And I don't need to, yeah, I'm in the back of my mind, I'm gonna think about these results a little bit until I get them. And I got them Friday and everything was perfect. You know what I'm saying? Everything could not, I mean, they they patted me on the back and and told me, hey, great job. And and I will, I'll tell you on your podcast, I know you've worked with a cancer center in Montgomery, but Clearview Cancer Center up here in Huntsville has been the most wonderful people ever. Dr. Laples uh has been such a great oncologist for me and and his staff, and so friendly and loving people when you go in there. So that's another thing I'd want anybody to know. If you ever got the news uh like you and I did, you're gonna be in good hands when you walk carrying people when you walk.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

It is not it is not the uh death sentence it used to be. Yeah, yeah. So and and th that the staff, medical people, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

I run out of words to describe them. Yeah, they're they are so wonderful. But you know, all this together though, results, what the what are you talking about? Things you hope is once you kind of figure out that if you place your hope in God, truly place your hope in God, that's all you need. That's all John needs.

unknown 27:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Once I can focus on that, and it'll build my faith. So, but just I want to touch on that hope and faith one second, brother. And let me just affirm to you real quick that I this is something I believe to my core that I've learned over the last couple of years, that hope without faith is temporary.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

I can tell you that. Hope without faith is temporary. Uh, we'll always have those secular hopes. Uh, but when we start focusing on things that I consider more spiritual and using our energy to see what we can do with our destiny, how we can control where we're going in eternity, wherever, uh, then I realize my hope is in God, and that's all I need, Dave. That is all I need. And and so, is it easy? No, no, it it's not, but uh, you'll find that that hope placed in the right place is just going to increase your faith and develop it in such an extraordinary manner. But it's a challenge, and we know that we know that there's an evil one that challenges us every day with our hope, but it it's it's it's a it's a battle, but we just need to make sure we're focusing in the right place.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

And and you used the word confidence a few minutes ago, and that that's really what hope's all about. It's a confident assurance of a future. Now, in the secular sense, that's like you said, is temporary, but in our spiritual sense, uh, we have a confident assurance and a faithful God, and then that and that's eternal.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Yep, that's it. That is it.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

So Wow, that's some good stuff, John.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Well, I Dave, I hope I didn't rattle around too much. Oh no, no, you said it very well.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

We and we grow in that. And I I want people to know that. I've talked many times. Uh, when I first started my treatment in the hospital that that first night, uh, did not know if I was going to be alive the next morning, quite literally. And uh I had a massive, massive panic attack. Uh and and my nurse uh what a wonderful lady, Ashley was her name, and she sat on the end of the bed, she ran everybody off and disconnected everything except life support. And she sat there and we talked together for about an hour. We shared scripture, and she told me, Welcome to the human race. And that helped me on I I said, Ashley, why am I experiencing this kind of fear and doubt? I I'm a man of faith. And that's when she said, Welcome to the human race. So, yeah. Even even even children of God experience doubt and fear. Our Lord, not doubt, but he he experienced those emotions just like us.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

That's you we go back to the people in our lives, especially uh these medical facilities and things, and very similar story is uh, you know, I mentioned earlier I was struggling for a little while there. You know, it was Christmas I was going through, and and so I have a visit with the doctor, and and I go in there, an oncologist, and he said, How are you doing? You know, you ready for this surgery and all that? And I said, Doc, I'm not doing good mentally. I don't know, you know, what I'm and he looked at me and he said, John, let me just go ahead and tell you right now, he said, I can prescribe you something. And and understand, Dave, I'm it if people need it and use it and it improves their lives, I I'm not casting any any bad feelings towards people using medications. He said, But John, I can prescribe you something. He said, but you need to go home and have this battle mentally for a little while. And he said, if you didn't have this, he said, I would be more concerned if you weren't challenging, you know, some of these things like that. I think he did me a great favor by doing that. Now, once again, if people need it, I want them to go seek the help they need and get the treatments they need and stuff. But yes, he did he he did me a very favor, you know, a very good favor and saying, You're human, like you said, Dave. Welcome to the human race. He said, You're human, and and you're starting to see the reality of the end of your life all of a sudden on Earth. You know what I'm saying? And oh I do. And he I really felt like he he didn't give me that day the answer that I wanted, but the more I dwelt on that answer, the better I felt about it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah, I I shared I shared the same conversation basically with my doctor uh as it John, I was I was floored. I I experienced post-traumatic stress. That that shocked me. I always associated it with first responders, military. And then I experienced survivor guilt. I thought, wait a minute, I know people that have passed away, family that have had members pass away. And and so I when I went in for my quarterly checkup, I was talking with uh my doctor and uh I shared that with him. I said and and he basically said the same thing. He said, You know, you went through facing the reality of the end of your life. And um so he said oh oh and then he said, Oh, and by the way, God is not finished with you yet. I cannot tell you how much I appreciated a man of science like my doctor saying that, but he is a good man. So I br you everything you said I understand a hundred percent. And I'm glad you said it because people need to know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

I hope people if they listen and they take anything away from what I say. I hope that they understand that that they can talk about it, Dave, and there's people like myself that that'll listen and and we've been through it, and and I'm gonna hold my hand out and help them if I can. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 33:46

I do, because what you're what you're saying is what my mantra is, and it's not original with me, but it is strong with me is no one walks alone.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

No one we've got each other, we've got the Lord. Oh man. Which by the way begs the question how do people survive without the Lord? I have asked myself that so many times. I would be hoping. I know they do.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

But it's so much better.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Yeah, it is, it is. I I think it it also, but Dave, I do think it creates challenges for us sometimes, but I do, you know what I'm saying. But it's so reassuring uh with that, you know. Uh yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Well, I do understand that.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

So how are you doing now? You said uh you're getting negative re I mean, uh excuse me, you're getting they're positive results. I wouldn't mean negative in the sense of bad results. It's just uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

You know, Dave, uh I I couldn't be doing better. It it's great. I'm I'm on the right path with everything. I I've gotten good news. I've uh let me tell you, I I've gotten great results and walked out of that examining room and walked face to face with a good friend that sat there and told me he was gonna be on chemo the rest of his life.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Hugged him. Uh my wife was with me. And I'll tell you, uh, Dave, when you you just talk about, you know, your traumatic experiences and survivor guilt and stuff, uh, I walked straight out to the car and shut the door and just tears come down my eyes. Oh man. You know what I'm saying? Yes, sir, I do. I didn't want him to see him at the time, and of course, if he listens, he'll he'll know exactly what I'm talking about. But yeah, I mean I just couldn't stop. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 35:29

And so yeah, I understand that guilt all I uh I I asked the nurse one time, we had a traumatic event happen at the cancer center, and and uh a few minutes later I went into my nurse uh and I said, Brently, how how d how do you deal with this emotionally? And she she pointed to the supply closet and she said, You you you go in there and you you let loose of that emotion. And uh that that's what you're talking about. You walk away and say, Okay, I I've got it I've gotta deal with this. And you do. And and even now there are times when um uh yeah, I'll go visit the supply closet. I I lost a patient the other day that I cared about very I say my patient, I mean uh Yeah you you get to know 'em when you're working at the cancer center and and uh she passed away uh as a result of the cancer and I was gone at the time. I didn't realize it when I got back. Um I I saw I knew something was not right when I came in that morning and uh my friendly was normally uh uh upbeat and positive and I could tell something wasn't right and I asked her and she's let me know that she had passed away that past week and and uh it it impacted everybody. And uh but we still are there for the patients and we've gotta bring hope to 'em. And so you did the right thing. You you listened to that friend of yours and and uh tried to offer him hope. That that's just so important. Again, we're not alone. No. So that's that's good stuff. All right. John, that's wonderful, brother. Anything else you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Uh well, Dave, I just uh you know, I just want to encourage people. We've uh you know that's that's really what it comes down to. Um, you know, it it doesn't have to be a health problem. It may be a drug problem, it might be a marriage problem, a finance problem.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Finances, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

You know, we everybody in this world is gonna have a time when their hope is being diminished. I know that. Uh and and Dave, I'll I I hate to get, you know, too much into politics with your uh podcast, but uh, I I guess kind of I am a politician because I I've hold elected office and I'm running for elective office, but uh, you know, I really kind of despise politics and and one of the reasons is being in well there's coup two reasons really, but being in the political arena, uh even on the local level like I have, it it just takes so much of your time and time that you should be doing good works, works for the church and stuff. It takes so much of you. Uh sure that and it's a struggle. Uh the second thing is it's a struggle uh to uh look at each candidate. You know, I've got two people running this race with me that have also secular hope. And you know, some of them are out there claiming, you know, that they have uh hope and faith in Christ and and all that, and and I'm so proud if they do and everything else. But but how do I, as an opposing candidate, not contribute to their hopelessness if they're in that in that state? You know, how how do I not uh weaken their their faith? And so, you know, there's a book, uh Eugene Show. I don't know if you've ever read it, but I I gleaned a lot of information a few years ago from it. It's called Thou Shall Not Be a Jerk. And in a down lower, smaller letters it says in politics. And so I've learned a lot through it, but you know, I don't want to be uh that way. I don't want to, you know, uh election season just season in my life. And so I'm gonna, you know, it's a struggle, and and I I wanted to kind of mention this because it's a struggle. It may be Donald Trump or Joe Biden or something we've got going on in this country, but uh, you know, it's a struggle for good people when you consider that you may be tearing down people's hope and and things like that at times like that. So uh, you know, I want I want to know that if I'm in election and people I run against, I hope even after the election, I've done something to strengthen their faith in God or something we can move on.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

And that's a, you know, through my life experiences, I've failed many times. Uh, but I really hope that when, you know, the day comes and if they have me in in a casket sitting there or at my grave, uh, when it comes down to hope, and I think we share this, uh, I hope my friends and family will say he was an encourager.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Uh he became an encourager and he helped me on my journey in this earthly life.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

You know, even people that we oppose uh whether it's politics or whatever, that doesn't mean uh we yeah, you you still want to reinforce humanity, the people.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

So I I won't yeah, I really, you know, I know we need to wrap this up, but as we're doing something. As we do, I really want to just drill what I I'm telling you, and I want you audience to know on some of this is, you know, our hope can be strengthened uh mentally with our faith, with a lot of things. Uh looking inward and asking ourselves is are we treating people the way we want to be treated? Are we building people up? Are we listening to others? You know, when somebody has that bad uh results from a scan, or maybe they're in a divorce, are we are we listening? Are we doing our part? Uh are we encouraging? And once again, are we just putting that handout and helping them develop a hope that will eventually include faith? And once again, are we helping them see Christ? And that's what it comes down to, Dave. And that's I'm gonna tell you, uh probably getting a diagnosis that I had cancer through a routine check is probably the best thing that ever happened to me for my hope, which in turn strengthened my faith. And that's that's really where I'd lay it out there forever.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

I I tell people at the cancer center when I'm visiting with them, uh, especially a new patient, I I know it sounds counterintuitive, but if you start looking at this as I have been given a gift, uh I can use this to glorify God, to help others, it just puts a whole different shine on it. And and that's what you're doing, and and that's what we try to do. And yet John, I also tell people you may have received a diagnosis, your friend you mentioned, who's gonna be in chemo the rest of his life. Okay, that's not what I hoped for. Now I'm gonna shift my hope. I'm gonna be looking in a different direction, but hope is still there unless we give it up. And uh, you know, don't do that. It's just a it's gonna take a different view, a different life changes. And and so, uh yeah. Um I it it was hard to grasp that at first. Here I wait a minute How is this a gift? But I can't yesterday yesterday one I was working at the cancer center and one of the nurses who by the way was also one of my nurses, additional nurse, she had just started at the cancer center but uh a few years ago, but she came and grabbed me and she said, Hey, hey, there's a patient down here who wants to talk to you and I I'm I'm making a beeline, you know. I and I sat there and talked to him for about fifteen, twenty minutes and uh he th this was his first day in treatment and uh he he uh he says, I watched you run around and you're just so happy. I'm having a good time. But anyway, he had he had uh throat cancer, has throat cancer. Uh there's a tumor on his uh base of his tongue and uh he's just starting yesterday. And we did, we talked for a while and uh found out that he and I have some things that we share. So he's gonna be coming in uh initially he's gonna be coming in a couple of times a week, and then uh I I'm gonna be there for him, absolutely. And and so again, I I'm I'm going back to we now have an opportunity with something that I would never have had that opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

100% agree with that. It's it's amazing your perspective changes and how you you realize that.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Yeah. Uh I again I'm repeating myself from former uh previous episodes, but uh I love the story of Moses when when um he's up on Mount Sinai and God's telling him you're gonna go back to Egypt and free the Israelites, and he says, Who me? This excuse and that. Excuse and finally God said what is in your hand. Oh, I love that. What is in your hand? Yes. And so whatever is comes our way, if I look at it as I can use this to glorify God, it just puts a whole different look on it. Yes. All right. I'm sorry, brother. We can go on on this for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

We could, Dave. And it's it's I enjoy I enjoy talking about it. And um, you know, I really hope as you wrap this up, uh, I really I have the hope uh that anybody listening, um if they need anything, I mean, I know they can reach out to Dave, but Dave can if if if they need to reach out to me and just want to talk if they're up in this area, uh it doesn't matter. Uh this is too important to me not to, you know, address. And but there's when you when you're going through bad times, there are so many people there that that will reach out for you and and comfort. But it doesn't have to be cancer. No, it doesn't be cancer. So I do want to leave it with that is is keep building your hope. Keep keep it, find your hope. Don't become hopeless and reach out to other people. Dave, like I said earlier, you you you came by and visited with me, and it was such a great visit we had that day. But just reach out to other people and know that there's a lot of us here that are here to listen.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

And that's all. Yeah. No one walks alone. Yep. Okay. Thank you. All right, thank you, John. I have enjoyed this tremendously. Thank you. All right, I'll wrap up. Well, friends, thank you for joining John and I as together we're journeying towards hope. And until next time, let's just keep moving forward towards hope. If this episode encouraged you, share it with someone who may need hope today and remind them no one walks alone. And remember, in all things, we give glory to God our Father.