SPEAKER 2

Hello folks.

SPEAKER 1

Hello everyone.

SPEAKER 2

Andar says how are you? And how did the week unfold for you?

SPEAKER 1

Well, it was a strange transition week, right. We went from Halloween on Wednesday to Christmas season on Saturday. So let's just say it was a transition week. One day you see people dressed up and wearing all sorts of zombie things and going trick or treataround and then literally two days later you are in a sculpture park witnessing this, the kickstart of the Christmas season in Denmark. So that's how I am. I am, I am ready to feel the Christmas season. You know, there's two months of Christmas in Denmark.November is called, let's just call it light Christmas season because you already start having the Christmas parties. You, we already have the Christmas beer launched on Friday and you know, so, so the, the light Christmas is Starting then on 1st of December youhave the Advent calendar. You start having gifts every day right from 1st of December till Christmas itself. And then obviously Christmas, so decorations, right. I mean right now I have to start thinking about putting lights outside and slowly, slowly get house ready. By1st of December I should be fully feeling like in a Christmas movie, you know. What about you?

SPEAKER 2

I had a really good week. Last week was very busy. We in India celebrate Diwali. It's a very popular festival. It also falls on the exact same day as I think in this year's calendar. It's the exact same day on Halloween. And Halloween is the day of the darkness. Diwali is afestival of lights just the other side. Contrary to what Halloween is and with a lot of mythological characters associated with why we celebrate festival of lights. And it's a very joyful and also colorful festival with a lot of firecrackers. And during Diwali it's like it's a week,it's a season for Diwali. So we get into a one week holiday. So if you have any Indian colleagues. No Indian colleagues. They probably would have traveled to India celebrate Diwali in Denmark. And I guess in my company we had a day with a lot of Indian costumes.People even Danes try to come up with Indian sarees and shudidars and, and all those colorful. Yeah, it was well, well, I would say enjoyable and also exchange sweets. So it was very, very nice during the week. Saturday as usual. Yeah, I just loved the week. Good,good food, but a lot of sugar, a lot of calories. But that's what we live for.

SPEAKER 1

So I think the Diwali ones, I mean it sounds like the. There's also this festival of color, right? Or the color festival is this Diwali, Holi Holy.

SPEAKER 2

Holy is. No, they are two different things. Festival of colors is more like. You see the color powders and that has a story behind it. But Diwali is what I would say, popular through the entire country. And it goes by mythological characters and belief systems and it'sdeeply, I would say, ingrained in Hindu culture. Hindu religion. Yeah. But it's also now a celebrated thing across India. So despite the fact that it's not just Hindu today, it's just Muslims, Christians, everybody burst crackers and exchange sweets. And we have a publicholiday in India. So it's like this festival season of India, I would say.

SPEAKER 1

Okay, that's cool.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah. But that brings us to yet another episode. Episode 5. We haven't even introduced a number. I'm super excited because I've read through the draft article and I've handpicked three topics. We will start with the most interesting, subjectively most interesting part,which is the municipal tax. Municipal income tax.

SPEAKER 1

Money. Money. Arun.

SPEAKER 2

Money Money, Exactly. You start with the money part.

SPEAKER 1

What you think is most important is money related. At least you're honest about it.

SPEAKER 2

I am, I am. I'm very honest about it. It's also the area that I really lack clarity is also the money part. So through these conversations, I would not only educate experts, but most importantly, I would also get, I would say, some awareness. And to start with the moneypart, the municipal income tax. Let's start with what does Denmark do with commune tax or the municipal tax? Maybe we could start with how does it affect us what goes in and how does the government play with it?

SPEAKER 1

Well, it's not the government who collects municipal income tax. It's as the name says, it's the municipal governments or the municipal councils, to be more correct, who are collecting that tax and they're using it to finance. Well, let's just see what goes under themunicipality. It goes kindergartens, it goes schools, libraries, local infrastructure like roads and public lightning. Basically in. Ah, yeah. You also have all the. The people. The benefits. Right. Are also under that people with disabilities. There's. There's several. Theseveral areas where the money are going. Basically it's for. For services. Also your administration. Right. All the services that you need when you go to the. To the municipality.

SPEAKER 2

I mean, the driving license, for example. Yeah, Health card and driving.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, health card. Yes. I think the driving license is under the state agency.

SPEAKER 2

So no vessels.

SPEAKER 1

Okay, Exactly. As Turlesen are never run by municipalities, those are like literally agencies of the state. But the Yellow card. Yes, that's definitely run by local and regional together, let's just say, because technically they're issued by the region, not by the local. But thepeople working for the local government are giving it to you, and they are the ones processing the data and so on. So you can say both of them have this task or they're sharing this task. It's. It's quite often that you might find different entities or different publicentities who are sharing the same task. You can say also business promotion. Right. Every municipality has a business department that is in charge of making sure that people who want to follow the entrepreneurship path have support from the. From the localmunicipality, tourist promotion of the location support.

SPEAKER 2

People come and visit in general benefits, in fact. Yeah, I will start with this particular part of this. I could see that there is a big table that the article had. And in that article you could actually see a lot of communes and then amount of tax, the percentage of tax thatthey collect. Yes, I couldn't differentiate. There isn't a huge difference in terms of, let's say the communal tax, the municipal tax from copenhagen, which is 23.5. And to the places like, let's say Alpo, for example, or Aahus, it's 24.52. So why are they. First of all, why arethey different? Why can't they just have one number? And if so, why. It is like, who sets these data? Who sets this number? Who determines this number?

SPEAKER 1

First of all, the income. The municipal income tax is set up by or decided by the city council of that municipality or the local council, depending if it's a city municipality or a village municipality. So it's either a local or a city council who decides, or the local politiciansdecide the tax rate, because that's literally the biggest income of the municipality. They leave out of that. Unfortunately, for many municipalities, this is not enough. So they depend on basically the state supplementing here and there what's possible so that they canbasically survive. But many municipalities are literally at the end. So that's why whenever you see that they are raising the income, municipality tax means that they are not doing very well financially. So they need to gather more money from the people. So that's,That's a mechanism that municipalities have to be able to. Because in, in. In Denmark we have this autonomy principle. So decisions will be taken as close to. To the citizen as possible. And the first level of government is actually the municipality. And they areempowered to quite of a high level, you can say, because they finance themselves. They take just most of the decisions that actually govern your day to day life by the time you get. For us as internationals, yes, the parliament decides a lot of things. Especially fornon Europeans. Not for Europeans, but if you were Danish, the parliament will not have as much significance to you as your city council. Because you care more about if your light on your street is working, if the roads are functioning, if the snow falls down, someonegoes and collects it, if there are events happening on holidays, so there's something happening in your community, if there's support for your. For your business, if you know that's what you care about. It's things that directly affect you in your day to day life. So you'renot going to care so much about. Okay, some larger framework laws.

SPEAKER 2

A. I have a sense of feeling that, for example, I live in Ghentofte. And if I. If I see how many people live in Ghentofte versus how many people live in Copenhagen, it's a busy, I would say city, most busiest city is Copenhagen, let's agree. For example, and the amount ofwork that the government or the municipality has to do is, let's say twice or thrice. Maybe for the cleaning or moving trucks, or let's say clearing up infrastructure. The cost of maintaining city. This cost of maintaining, let's say a far off state varies, right? But they stillthey collect the same numbers. And why, why, why it has to be the same when let's say a commune like Farum, it's not as populated as it is, but still has almost the same number, does it have any direct impact to that number? Maybe I'm understanding it differently.

SPEAKER 1

You're saying that if the population of a municipality impacts.

SPEAKER 2

Impacts the percentage.

SPEAKER 1

Yes. The lower the population, the higher the tax rate.

SPEAKER 2

Okay.

SPEAKER 1

You have to understand, just because there's fewer people doesn't mean there's fewer teachers. Doesn't mean there's fewer educate fewer educators. Yes, there might be fewer, but still there's still quite enough to need quite a decent budget for you to be able torun that municipality. So anyone. No municipality does well if they have very few people. Especially few people that work. Because it's not enough just to live there. You need to work. So if you work in Copenhagen, but you live in Ghentoft, are you going to pay yourtax in Gentofte? So Ghent of is doing well if you convinced you to move there. So lucky. Gentofte.

SPEAKER 2

What if? What if. Let's put a hypothetical scenario. I live in Ghentofte, but I maybe have an apartment somewhere, let's say in Pierre hall or Ala Hall. Some. Somewhere in that place. Where do I pay my tax? I still own some property in another commune whichcollects a different number. Will I still be paying the tax in Ghent after. Is it double or how does it work? Your.

SPEAKER 1

Your income tax is. Goes to where your current declared residence is.

SPEAKER 2

So not valid.

SPEAKER 1

Nothing. Because your properties, you're going to be. You're going to pay property tax to those municipalities. That's another tax you have to pay to local municipalities, but not income tax. Your income tax is related to. Because your deductions are also related toone single address is transport deductions, for example. So you cannot.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, yeah, that way. I understand now. Okay. I'm. I'm better now. Yeah. Yeah. So what is the. What is the first about the new municipal changes? Is it. Is it something specific or does it.

SPEAKER 1

No, I mean, I just want people to be. To be aware. That's why I include it. I want people to be aware that your tax is different depending of where you live in Denmark. And I want them to understand that they have the power as people living in that municipality, toinfluence the tax level in that municipality. So, for example, if you vote for people that will, I don't know, support higher tax or lower taxes, or at least to explain and find out why are you now paying more from your salary? What's the reason? Are they. Is because theyare saving a school from being closed? Is it because they are saving a few bus lines from being closed? Why are they increasing it? So people should question it? You know, you shouldn't just accept things for the way they are. That's not how Denmark functions.Denmark is built upon the idea of questioning things. Making sure to understand that you are part of the conversation. So, okay, you decide to raise your tax by 0.7%. That's. That's high.

SPEAKER 2

That's high? Yeah, that's.

SPEAKER 1

That's high. Like, you saw that most of the raises are 0.0. Nobody dares to say one day, 1% increase, that's a lot of money. But that's political suicide. So. So everyone plays with 0.06, 0.07 because people sounds too little to bother. But when you take, you know, 10crores from there, 10 crowns from the Necron every month, then it gets to a decent amount that you can do something with, like saving a school from being closed, for example. So you see, for municipalities, this is a. It's a mechanism to ensure that their. Theirfinances are. Are well equipped. And also people to understand that the municipality level, where they have the right to vote and candidate for. If you're European, you can vote in candy from day one while you're in Denmark. If you're non European, after 40 years,you have this right. You know, you don't have to be a citizen to be able to influence.

SPEAKER 2

So the municipal elections, I can go and vote and also participate in these. Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER 1

Sorry, can you repeat.

SPEAKER 2

So the municipal elections, I can just go and vote for municipal elections. Being an expert. Okay. I've never. I've never realized this. I should become more aware. I don't.

SPEAKER 1

You should run some elections. Be the first international ever elected in Ghent of the. I don't think I. I'm quite certain that Ghent of the. Never had an international elected. As a city councilman, think about how many thousands of internationals there are in Ghent. Of10, you vote by selecting a person on the voting ballot in Denmark. So there's at least more than 100 candidates. Usually the votes are so split that you can get in with 600 votes, personal votes. So if you know 600 people in Ghent of the Arun, I'm going to go for it.No, you can get their vote and you can be in the. In the city council, making history in. Get off there. Being on the. Just being on the posters will encourage a lot of internationals to understand, hey, we can do more than what we do today. You know, it can have quitea positive impact in that direction.

SPEAKER 2

But it's also. It is also, I would say I see these posters in city centers and I've always had this question, maybe I should watch more of Danish television to understand and understand them in detail. But I get an impression that there's a lot of voices, expat voices inthe city, very few voices. If you go, let's say, outside Copenhagen or the greater Copenhagen area, then you find less and less expats, less and less expatriate candidates.

SPEAKER 3

Did you know that the Last Week in Denmark newsletter is available in 8 languages?

SPEAKER 1

Hey there.

SPEAKER 3

This is Fjon from the last Week in Denmark podcast. And every week you guys are tuning in to hear me and my fellow co hosts talk about the top news of the week in English. But let's be real, we're all internationals. So not only are you speaking English every day,you're probably also speaking a bit of Danish, but you've probably also got your own native language as well, like the multilingual master you are. So why not treat yourself to the luxury of being able to read Danish news each week in your own native Language. Sohead on over to last weekdk.substack.com that's last weekdk.substock.com and sign up for our newsletter delivered to you every single Sunday.

SPEAKER 1

But you don't find any candidates in Copenhagen either. To the shame of Copenhagen, which has 68, 000 internationals. There never has been an international running for elections for the city.

SPEAKER 2

Seriously? Seriously. Okay. Oh wow.

SPEAKER 1

Shame. Shame on Copenhagen people.

SPEAKER 2

For people listening to this, it is not a hate you, it's just a fact.

SPEAKER 1

It's funny. Come on guys. You're 68,000. One of you has the courage to stand up and represent you. You easily get someone elected. You could close your eyes, put your name out there, say you're international and then you literally going to get in. It's the easiestpossible place to get elected in Denmark somehow. No. And you know, it's funny. If you go, if you come to Yuland, if you cross the bridges to the so called, you know, woodcraft Denmark to the farmlands, you'll find a lot more internationals who are. Who took thisstep in front and run for elections in various small municipalities that nobody heard of. But yet that happened. You know that history has already happened in this side of Denmark. What's happening down there, Odense? Nobody ever bothered. So from the momentyou cross Fredericia in that direction, zero. Not even one single international running in the direction. Besides, there was some one running in Slagelse, one Romanian guy, Roskilde. I think those are exceptions. Yeah, Slagonse and Roskilde. That's it. And there wasa. There was a Fredericksberg. I remember last time there was a woman in Fredericksburg running for elections as well. Okay, three places. Fine enough three. But okay. Even Fredericksberg was faster than Copenhagen. Just to understand. So if you know anyone,yeah if you know anyone in Copenhagen, get them to do this. Especially if. If they have a good profile and they will be a great representative for. For us internationals in, in Copenhagen. We should have someone there. It's just.

SPEAKER 2

It's also for the people listening to this podcast here, they should also be I would say motivated or have the drive to just show up. So all you listeners looking forward to get inspired from this conversation that we're having, then go nominate yourself for the election. Iactually have to be more, I would say aware about political. Political situations in Denmark because then I become more and more involved also gain my know how I would say. But I think it's interesting then we say there's no expatriate candidate in. In GreaterCopenhagen. Wow. I could not even believe. And when you say there is more in Shetland compared to shield and it's also surprising.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, we. I know we broke the ice in Alborg. We were the first ones in 2007. 13 in 2013. But since then, you know, many years have passed. So it was enough time for Copenhagen to catch up with us. That's just a little bit of, you know,rivalry between the north and the capital. There always has been a rivalry between the north and the capital. One way to get votes here up north, just say something bad about Copenhagen and 100 votes easily. Just like that.

SPEAKER 2

100 votes like a hate story?

SPEAKER 1

Not a hate story. Just say something like, oh my God, those people in there. I don't know, fancy apartments and chailate their lives. They don't know real Denmark. They don't know real Denmark. Where we make the pigs and the bacon, you know.

SPEAKER 2

Point. Yeah. That is municipal tax. And I think we also dive deep into political part, not parties, but. Yeah. Situation municipal elections. Let's dive into another topic which is about this time it's about the hooligan culture that was mentioned in the article.

SPEAKER 1

Money. Arun, how is that possible? I really expected your second subject to be about money again.

SPEAKER 2

Again. Okay. We will end up with the money again, I hope, I promise that we have it.

SPEAKER 1

I don't think there is more subjects about money, so I understand why you couldn't find another one. But hooligans, huh?

SPEAKER 2

Yeah.

SPEAKER 1

What do you think hooligans are in your mind?

SPEAKER 2

I have the same question. I know I've seen a lot of media and also some of my colleagues usually mention if there is a match between FC Copenhagen and Ponbiue fc, we expect to have a lot of, let's say these fan fights or rival clashes that. That could also bedemonstrated in stadiums. And I kind of understand, but I don't know what exactly hooligan means. Is it like a cult or. I don't know, is it violence? Is it. Is it groupism? Is it extremism? I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER 1

God, no.

SPEAKER 2

It sounds negative though.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, you can say so. But it's a hooligan. Is a. Is a. If you come, if you go, you look at Britain, it's. It's. It's basically like a term to define food. Organized football fans within firms. Like, you know, you create a firm and then you. You basically fight for honor with otherfirms to score honor points.

SPEAKER 2

What is honor points?

SPEAKER 1

Street cred. You know, you're.

SPEAKER 2

Okay.

SPEAKER 1

So you're, you know, you're standing on the street. Your level of influence on your, on your brothers. I, I know what the hooligan is because When I was 16, I was a hooligan as well. I used to be part a firm, and for me, I had anger issues when I was 16, right. So I had tofind a place to, to, to get better. And that was the best place because you got to really leave the match. You know, when you go to a match, you don't sit and just watch. You leave it. You know, you stand, you're half naked, you scream, you scream.

SPEAKER 2

Crazy.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, you beat the, the, the drums, you throw with, with fireworks and stuff.

SPEAKER 2

You know, it's like, basically it's like a crazy, crazy energy or adrenaline rush.

SPEAKER 1

Yes, yes, yes. So, so that's, that's the idea, you know, and then you go out there and you fight for honorary. Basically, if you're, if a rival firm comes and takes away your flag, so they beat you up, they get your flag, then you're out, you're, you're completely, you're. Fromthat moment on, you don't exist as a firm. So it's the end of us. Hooligan. But, but if you manage to defend the flag, then it's fine. So every time different firms try to Quaker new territories by saying, okay, I see that this firm is meeting at this bar all the time. Okay,we're going to take over this bar. But to take over, we need to first make sure that they don't exist anymore. To not exist anymore, we need to get the flag from them. So then they come. I remember once we were in, after a match, they came three trucks, like threebuses with 300 people. They surrounded us from every direction and they got us in the middle, right? And obviously we, we didn't survive. And that was the end of our, our firm. We were three firms in that bar last night. All three got destroyed.

SPEAKER 2

Destroyed meaning destructive physical properties as well. Or is it just a removal of flag and then keep their flag?

SPEAKER 1

They took the. Well, they beat us up and took our flag.

SPEAKER 2

Ah, that's, that's, that's Ms. Well, that's.

SPEAKER 1

The idea of it, right? You have to, to have some. The challenge. Otherwise if they just come in and they just take the flag, what's the point? Okay, so you need to have the, the. It's like sport, you know, it's, it's.

SPEAKER 2

Same thing, but it's not ethical though. Sounds so unethical.

SPEAKER 1

But, but you don't attack civilians.

SPEAKER 2

Okay. As long as you are not having the FC Co or Copenhagen or any other club, Sporting club and mat on the match day. So we are good to go I guess then.

SPEAKER 1

No, the problem is some, Some. Some people. Some people misunderstood what, what means to be a hooligan. And some people try. Started to act like gangsters and act like you. They forgot about the old style, the. The owner style. Now it became more about, Idon't, I don't know, the. The Danish hooligan scene. Obviously in Romania it was more about honor. And you would go and the worst thing you could do to another firm's city is to go to their city. And for example, we would take a bus, prisoner, right. And we use thatbus to go through the middle of the city to show them that. Look, we took over one of your public transportation just to be transported directly to the, to the stadium. Right. And everyone will be like very angry from the side that we're going straight through themiddle of the city. And that's dishonorable for them to allow another firm from another city do that in their own territory. You know, that was the whole idea of it.

SPEAKER 2

But so. But it's not a fan club though. It's not a fan club though. It's just a firm that.

SPEAKER 1

It is like a fan club, an.

SPEAKER 2

Organized fan club to. Yeah. Have demonstrations and across. Yeah, yeah. So just show superiority.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, I guess. But not superiority in terms of, you know, don't see like in a racial way, but see it more in a. I'm stronger than you.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, a match day. We just show like, ah, let's see who wins today and let's see who's the mightier of the game. I get the point. The context is still competing for who is stronger in terms of match and not just physical force or. Of course, Iunderstand.

SPEAKER 1

Of course, if your team keep losing, then there's no point to. For you. You have nothing to defend. So if your team keeps losing match after match after match, there's nothing to fight with other firms because you have zero owner to fight for. Yeah, like that's, that'sliterally what happened to out to our firms anyway. We got. We couldn't. We didn't exist anymore. But at the same time our team went to second league and from there on the whole culture of hooligan is died in the city simply just like that.

SPEAKER 2

Do you follow sporting? I mean football clubs? Any. Do you follow any clubs in Denmark? Are you a fan of I mean.

SPEAKER 1

I support all Borg. I'm a local patriot, right? So of course I'm gonna always support Albert. But I know that all work is going through a generation change, so we don't, we cannot claim any more championships. I mean, we did the double, right? We got the cup and,and the championship here in Albert. So for us it's great.

SPEAKER 2

We also in the Super Liga, okay.

SPEAKER 1

We also have hooligans down here and we have a firm, but I'm not part of it. I'm too old for it. I know I no longer have those anger issues. But one thing that concerns me with the whole hooligan thing is that I'm just wondering why it got out of hand, right? Like why isit. Is it because it's no longer fights in between firms? Is it because they're attacking, I don't know, civilians on the street and then just because you were. Because probably in Denmark, I guess it's easier to buy T shirts of a certain club and people misunderstandwho you are. Okay. I can understand why problems can arise in there. Yeah, fair enough. But what concerns me is a bit the hooligan register. The fact that they consider making it public so people know if you are a hooligan or not. And then I feel like in Denmark thatcan have huge changes on someone's life. Right. Let's say you were 17 or 16 or 19 and you were a hooligan once, but now you're 35, you're a.

SPEAKER 2

Mid manager, you have family.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah.

SPEAKER 2

You have responsibilities, you don't have anger issues. So you're. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1

And then obviously nowhere you, you see some newspaper publishing, your name, oh, how would your co workers, your family, your react to that? I feel like it's going to destroy a lot of lives.

SPEAKER 2

That's also like personal, personal identity. Right. What I actually observe on these match days, I've. When I travel and I see a lot of say, patriotic FC club or FC Copenhagen or Bon Vue, they come in groups and they leave in groups and that's celebration. It's alsogood that even in India we have a fan culture. I mean, 1.4 billion, right? It's usually freaking crowded when you have a match day. Traffic jams everywhere. We just, it's. It's uncontrollable on match days. Especially when we watch cricket matches. It's very popular andI'm a fan of, let's say Chennai Super Kings, which is one of the most populous and popular franchisees. We also have this yellow versus blue rivalry. The Blues are actually the Mumbai which is also a very popular sporting club that is kind of, you know, FCCopenhagen's colourish. I subconsciously I thought, okay, yellow is my favorite color because I've been following sporting clubs. Bonvieu I said, I once said, I think I will go with Bonvieu for some reason. And then immediately my colleagues started judging me. Ah,those guys, I don't like them and I don't know the history, but she judged me on the day and I was like, like really feeling like bad. Okay, what is it about one view and then it's not one person though. It's a lot of people that say, but I guess fans are fans. But if I said if itgoes beyond control, it makes sense that then it is no more hooligan.

SPEAKER 1

But it's not just a Bron B problem. I mean you cannot just say, oh, it's Brown B. It's also fck. But I feel like because you are in an office with a lot of people probably living in Ghent of They will never. It's. It's Brownview is the working class team. You will have never beensupported by people living in where you live. To be honest, you. You do live in the more upper middle class part of Denmark. You know, Fck is. It's a more conservative, more the team of the richer people. It's always been so you.

SPEAKER 2

Oh wow. So we have this class segmentation in, even in football, sporting.

SPEAKER 1

Yes.

SPEAKER 2

My God.

SPEAKER 1

Every club has a history in that direction. I mean any person that comes to you, even that in Denmark, is it.

SPEAKER 2

Like an identity issue? So if I associate myself with Bond view, they will identify me as like, okay, this guy is this person. Wow. Then it's not that different from casts or grouping people. Right. It's so unfair.

SPEAKER 1

I mean it's unfair, not unfair. It's part of how people perceive other people. Right. So in the end they're not actually.

SPEAKER 2

Coming to watch a match. They're coming to be part of a tribe. No matter who, who they are playing against. I guess.

SPEAKER 1

So you have to understand in Denmark even the, the club that you support in UK can defend, define your identity. So if you come and say, oh, I'm a Manchester fan and then the guy that's next to you, he's from a working class, he's a social democrat. He'll be veryoffended and be like, dude, Liverpool is the only one, you know. No, I'm not joking. You know, it's. It's like this, you know, the, the, the working class football team is Liverpool. So you cannot go in a, in a working class bar and start saying, hey, Manchester Cityespecially, oh my God, you're gonna be beaten up.

SPEAKER 2

So, so yes, to be careful with what I say in clubs or.

SPEAKER 1

It's, it's, it's about identities. You know, people try to build their own identity around different things. It can be, it's not just, just, you know, ethnic identity. It's also football club identity. It's. It's a political identity. In Denmark, it depends on the political parts that yousupport, how you make your wedding. You know, it influences the traditions you have at your wedding based on which political party you support or you've been part of. You know, so here it's, it's like, you know, you take, that's why many people are not so open tosay hey, I'm from this party or I'm from this party because immediately they, if.

SPEAKER 2

You were put a label on you. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1

They will never feel comfortable networking or really like supporting or working with someone who is a red. Right. If you're a blue and so on. So it's the same like football. Football, political parties. I don't know, maybe, maybe even music, who knows? I don't knowmuch about music, but I have a feeling even that has a. Its own tribes.

SPEAKER 2

And, but I don't actually understand if I, if let's say, for example, if I'm in an interview, my hiring manager is supposed to be, let's say an FC co fan and then he says oh, so what match do you watch? Recently I said I bond be playing last match against fck. Thenprobably he's going to judge me, but I hope it doesn't affect my employability. I don't know.

SPEAKER 1

That's your risk. And probably you should not answer such, I don't know, private questions so easily in an hr.

SPEAKER 2

It's not, to be honest. That's interesting. That's interesting because in India of course we take pride in telling that I come from this place. We have a pride in language, a pride in identity, identifying that we come from this place. And it's funny that I actually see theopposite when, when, when I hear from you that it is pride for everybody to say I bon football club or say I'm a FC co fan or die hard fan of let's say M or let's say VBO FC for example. Yeah, yeah, but that, that should be the case. I mean there should be. I rememberone of my colleague, he took a bonby flag and then he placed that poll in where, where he sits. Because I think it was two years ago where Bonbe won a league and then he celebrated by bringing the flag. And also. Yeah, just to show that, that he supports this club.I love that. That's. That's a sign of let's say, wow celebration in my, in my place, where I come from. It's also huge. I'm actually thinking of making a podcast just for upcoming league just to, you know, we talk about this a lot of times and it's also, it's also, you know, it's.It's never a taboo to actually talk about this and show over. I would say it's not just enthusiasm, it's. It's like emotion for us. Color is emotion.

SPEAKER 1

Taboo, not taboo. It's more like you share this with your friends, you share this with people at a party. You share. But you're not going to share this with people that might be biased against you in terms of decision making power. Because we are humans and then westart thinking we use our biases to kind of make decisions, to kind of perceive people, regardless if you pretend to not or. Yes. But I mean I know a lot of people say I don't have biases. I don't see color.

SPEAKER 2

Y' all judge. We all judge within fraction of a second. And that's also like a lot of psychologists say.

SPEAKER 1

So that's what I'm saying. Like it depends with whom you share it. Right. If you're in a place where you can celebrate and enjoy. I'm the guy who came at work with a flag that shows strength. Like I can say I'm a hardcore in a gentle thing, but probably the guy doesn'thave any interest in promoting. Right. Anytime soon.

SPEAKER 2

No, he, he. I think he left the company and I think he had a good opportunity. Doesn't mean that he was fired. I think he was also a very good friend of mine. But I guess no, it was coincidence that what you said that he's no more. Not more not working with me. But Ithink I like he's also a military guy. He's from the army exam and I think I have a huge respect for him. That is interesting. So a lot of information about hooligan culture. But do you see the landscape going towards people being disturbed, the civilians being disturbedabout. About all these fan mobbing.

SPEAKER 1

I feel like I'm starting to think it's a problem in. In Copenhagen between FCK and Bronvy and because of that problem there, somehow the government reacts and decides to make common rules for everyone that's how it is.

SPEAKER 2

Okay. Then there will be more shitter rules, I guess.

SPEAKER 1

It's basically they want to make this face recognition software so they stop hooligans from literally entering the matches.

SPEAKER 2

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER 1

So basically you take away the main thing that makes them a hooligan. So that's. That's. Yeah, that's how it is. And then they want to make. They want to see if it's legally possible to publish the hooligan register. They didn't promise they can do it because theyactually have to find the law that allows them. It goes against several European directives to do that. But yeah, so I guess that's. Maybe that's the idea. The idea is that they're afraid that the hooligan environments are being used by gangs to train their youngsters orto recruit from among those environments. And because we have a gang problem in Sweden, they're afraid that we also have a future gang. So basically we are like in the future, Denmark might have a gang problem because Sweden has one today. And thereforewe should make everything possible to reduce the chances that they have places where to recruit potential people from. Therefore, any places where violence is being demonstrated like a hooligan environment should be strictly restricted so that chances forgangs to form in Denmark is reduced.

SPEAKER 2

Or organized crimes. Or organized hate crimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER 1

That's. That's like the whole thinking in the policy line. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER 2

So that's fair. That's fair. That's fair. There's also a lot of stringent security devices that are going to be installed. And I don't know if these infrastructure are everywhere. Right. Maybe in Copenhagen, in Park and maybe. I don't know if it's applicable and all.

SPEAKER 1

Well, they will force every club to install such things. So it doesn't matter. I mean, all the main stadiums, they cannot force this on a third league village stadium, because that will be mad. Maddening. Maddening. And second of all, there is no hooliganist culturedown there. There is more of a problem between. In the. I heard there is an issue in the children's matches where parents start beating up referees.

SPEAKER 2

Okay. Is it true.

SPEAKER 1

The referee union has made a statement about that they. They got tired of parents either verbally abusing the referees or literally taking things because they. They burn harder than their children on the. On the sidelines. My child, he was supposed to score that goal,but you stop. Stopped him. He's his future. To be the next Messi and Maradona. Why come to me? Oh, goodness. Yeah. So it's It's a bit dangerous because a lot of internationals are working actually as referees in Denmark. And unfortunately they are also in the. Inthe midst of all. So it's the worst thing is to. To be a referee. To me, I was a referee here in Denmark. And then to have a parent come screaming at you in Danish. You're probably in your second year in Denmark. You have no idea what the hell he's saying.

SPEAKER 2

That's good for you. Do that. You don't take it emotional or personal because you don't understand either. You'll be like.

SPEAKER 1

Problem is when. When they. When they are like more older parents, they are like weaker than you and they don't dare to attack you besides verbally. But then there's some guy, Viking genes in him is like, oh, my God, I am not gonna escape this match. So like,slowly, slowly at the end of the match, go as fast as you can from uk.

SPEAKER 2

Wow.

SPEAKER 1

Have you ever tried to. You said you're into football, right? So why don't you try to be a volunteer referee to see how it is?

SPEAKER 2

I know the rules, but I've never played enough football. But I know one of my colleague, he used to also do a referee. His. His child, I think his kid. He plays for junior, I think, division. And. And he. His child was also selected to go and play in Portugal to get trainedfrom Portugal. And. And yeah, yeah. And he's very, very talented. We had this company football once and I was trying to dribble the ball with him. He just like within a fraction of a minute, I think he just took the ball and he. He dribbles like the South Americans. It'snot like the Danish way of playing. It's very different because I've seen a lot of videos him being playing. He has control of his ball and he tries to, I would say possess. Have more possession than the rest of the place. In fact, it's so contrasting to the rest of the team.So all the team players pass to him, even though he's not a striker. He plays like the midfielder, but he has a lot of control. And he is also very vigilant where to pass and where to. Through passing. I. But I. I guess he. My. My friend would have actually had the similarexperiences somewhere where people are yelling maybe at the referees about maybe some judge being offside or offense or something. But it's a very. It's a very strange incidence, you know, when parents try to beat or let's say threaten or verbally.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, no, I mean, that's how it is where you burn for your child, you know, you really want your child to succeed. And when you see that if you can find a fault in the referee for the mistakes of the child and you're going to go for that, it became a very competitiveculture. It's quite unfortunate turn that's taking the. In the Danish society that, that competitiveness has become a lot more a thing. You know, the, the yant alone has kind of kept our heads down and like, okay, don't over estimate, don't overreach. You know, beaverage, don't be too much. Unfortunately, be too much has become the new thing in Denmark. So the new generations that come now are a lot more competitive. They want also, they want desire higher. They, they, they, they run for more.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, but they also see a lot of, of immigrants coming in. And then I know for a fact that a lot of immigrants, they are there, let's say their parents, they school them, say you need to study more, you need to be taking these competitive exams. And this is one way ofsaying they also get inspired. In the Danish kids are also getting inspired from what other cultures are doing. And then they have say, indirectly, directly challenged. Right now you see a lot of expats, children getting into top schools. And yeah, that, thatcompetitiveness gets inspired from.

SPEAKER 1

It's rubbed off.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, yeah, rubbed off.

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's not, it's not great. Because if this reflects on the higher side, I mean, Denmark was. The idea is that we are a community, we help each other thrive, but we don't try to stand out too much because it's not about me, it's about us. But nowit's becoming way too much about me. Right? That's why people are. More and more people are. If you look at Liberal alliance, right, the idea of let's reduce taxes, let's make it easy to become rich. A lot of young people are supporting such rhetorics in Denmark andthat's dangerous for the future. Because the reason why Denmark is looking the way it is today is because it has been a society that has put more access or more priority on the idea of community. We are one, we help each other, we thrive together. We don't leaveanyone behind, but we. Because the effect of people rushing to get rich and getting more for themselves means others will have less. It's simple, you know, it's just one bag of money. If you take the whole bag for yourself, then 10 other people will not ever reach thatbag. So they will never have It. Right. So I feel like there has to be a balance in things, moderation in things. And that's why Denmark is where it is today. It's not the American model of capitalism to the extreme. If you look at America now, it's not a country to follow.

SPEAKER 2

It's not a country to follow. But unfortunately there's a lot of influences from American societies that takes place in the products t shoes program stains, watch. And also there is a lot of these policies being changed because. Yeah, I think it's a lot of influx already.Maybe the idea of actually having enter law is a good thing to have, but I guess there's a lot of. Especially if you see Copenhagen, very international and students who study in schools are mostly internationals. And if you see a Dane studying with an Indian or Indianwith Chinese and Lebanese or you see Ukrainians and then the child feels like, okay, she or he is getting grades, I should also excel. And the other way is also possible. Right. For example, an Indian gets to improve is her skill in presentations. I've never donepresentations in my school, so only when I actually passed my school. I was, I was actually, let's say involved in presenting something. But in Danish schools, I mean, we are getting off track from the topic, but I guess it's inspired from both cultures and trying to get,get an average. And that is very normal in any, any influx of two different societies or two different cultures. Right. And. But the idea is to also know, let's say have the mentality of us and not myself or for, for the gains or. I'm competitive. I am, I'm. I would say I'mproducing more. So why can't I have the majority of the share that is, that is again American society. Right. And. And I don't know. I don't know how to advocate. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1

Unless you're gonna build a wall from four sides and live in a. In a bunker disconnected from the rest of society. That's the only way you can truly sit and can enjoy your benefits. But at the same time you still need someone to make sure there's water running to you,there's electricity running to you. There's. The stores are still working that. So, you know, this is, this is such a. I, I don't understand when people search for this idea, I need to have most more, more more for myself. And then something will happen. I'm not sure what.But if you, if you, if, if you amass way too much and you make everyone else suffer because of you, then, then you haven't done much. Unless, as I said, you buy yourself a private island and, I don't know, you. You get some other people to join you, to serve you there,and then you disconnect from the rest of society and hope nobody will bomb the world because you still live on the same planet. And regardless, even if you run on your little island, unless you're gonna build a rocket and go to another planet, then there's not muchyou can do about it. It, right, because if the rest of us destroy the planet with pollution and whatnot, climate change would just happen, and then your little island will be underwater sooner than later. You see, it's. There's no escape from community. There's noescape from society. That's what some people don't understand. So if you wish that you do well at the expense of others, that's the wrong approach. There's a reason why us is where it is today as society. One of my friends went there recently and he said, said,literally, you go from one street to another, it feels like you go from 21st century medieval times, 21st century Zombieland, medieval times, 21st century. It's incredible how the same city can be so segmented and it doesn't feel like you're living in the same country.You know, I don't want that for Denmark. I mean, that's not why. That's not how the Danish dream works, like so. But let's see. Let's see how it evolves in the future.

SPEAKER 2

Future. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1

I think there's many people who want to defend Denmark the way it was and many internationals who want Denmark to stay the way it was because we came here for the ideals that made Denmark where it is today. So, of course, we are not so inclined to be like,well, we came here, now the country doesn't look the same anymore. Time to leave. To where? Where is left?

SPEAKER 2

I agree. And I guess time flies. Narcissists. We're almost heading to end of the podcast today for episode five. Thank you for enlightening me with a lot of terminologies and also awareness to municipal tax hooligan culture and of course, policies. And we ended upwith the communal mindset. I think it was interesting. How did you feel so far?

SPEAKER 1

Yeah, I mean, as I said, I enjoy having a place to discuss about such situations. And it's always fun to have the chance to go deeper in one or two subjects. You see, we spent 50 minutes on literally three subjects maximum. Time goes fast when you go deep into anyof these subjects, but it's fun, you know, It's Denmark. It's the country we live in. And it's a good idea to make sure others understand as well. What are the possibilities, what are the opportunities and what can you make with your own two hands happen in thiscountry? Because luckily, the whole idea of organizing yourself, building a community fits very well within the Danish narrative. And it really feels like you want to be part of here. So the more involved you want to be, the better.

SPEAKER 2

Great. And for the listeners listening to the podcast, like Narsis mentioned during the last episode, if you want to be part of this conversation, we might have to consider maybe adding one more to each of these episodes. If you would wish to be part of part, you canreach out to us and maybe we could have a theme around what we should talk about and then have some fruitful discussions and I could be kind of a moderator to see where it leads to. What do you think about this, Narcissist? Because we, we find it is interestingto have interactions more and different faces maybe.

SPEAKER 1

As I said, we are doing this recording at 8 in the evening on a Sunday. So that's why we are where we are. But it's fun, right? So I enjoy. This is super unscripted, as you can imagine.

SPEAKER 2

It's a raw talk. We don't have any scripts. Yes, that is unfiltered conversations. Yeah.

SPEAKER 1

And it's. And it's without alcohol. Can you imagine in 2024 Denmark a podcast having a glass of alcohol on our table to encourage the conversation between us? No, we do not need alcohol to discuss about things we love to discuss about.

SPEAKER 2

As long as. As long as we stay to the facts. And also the perspectives are also important. Okay, that. That brings us to end of this conversation. Thank you, Narciss, for being on the show.

SPEAKER 1

Thank you.

SPEAKER 2

Have a. Yeah, See you.

SPEAKER 1

See you next Sunday.

SPEAKER 2

Yeah, sure. Bye.

SPEAKER 4

Hey, this is Kalpita and Golda, co hosts of the Last Week in Denmark podcast. Did you know Last Week in Denmark offers sponsored content in the newsletter. Our reporters are producing original articles, skills and content tailored for internationals in Denmark. Soif you have a business our readers should know about, let us write about it. Get in touch with us at reporter Wid DK. You can also reach out to us on LinkedIn and Instagram at last weekendenmark.