Last Week in Denmark
Curious about what’s really happening in Denmark — and how it affects the life of internationals living here? Each week, two hosts from the LWID community talk through the top news stories and developments — in English — sharing personal insights and international perspectives. It’s a clear and accessible conversation about life in Denmark, made for people who live here but didn’t grow up here. Last Week In Denmark is a volunteer-driven media project with a simple mission: to empower people through information.
With a mix of short summaries, thoughtful discussion, and context you can actually use, we cover everything from housing and healthcare to politics. Whether you're new to Denmark or have been here for years, this is your go-to bite-sized update on what’s happening — and why it matters to you. Thank you for helping us grow.
Last Week in Denmark
Abortion rights, Career gap, Hearing crisis: LWID S3E14
Denmark isn’t standing still — it’s taking bold steps to protect health, rights, and everyday life for its people. In this episode of Last Week in Denmark, Fionn and Katie share their viewpoints on the top 3 major news stories of the week: the expansion of abortion rights for teens and adults, new data on how motherhood continues to stall women’s careers, and growing concerns over the rise of tinnitus among young people.
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- Fionn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/fionn-o-toole/
- Katie - https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherineeburns/
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- Stephanie - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dstephfuccio/
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Fionn:
Hello, and welcome to the Last Week in Denmark podcast. This is Season 3, Episode 14. My name is Fionn O'Toole, and joining me this week is Katie Burns. Hi Katie, how have you been?
Katie:
Good! I'm excited for our first episode together. I can't believe we haven't done it together so far!
Fionn:
I know, and, well, spoiling the surprise for any eagle-eared listeners, or I guess eagles are known for their sight, aren’t they? So maybe any particularly sharp-eared listeners who were noticing for the first time. But yeah, this is our first time doing a podcast together. We, spoiler alert, are both Irish.
Katie:
Yes.
Fionn:
And I think we need to make a promise to ourselves—and to our audience—almost right off the bat that we will not just let this turn into Last Week in Denmark... in Ireland.
Katie:
I can't promise.
Fionn:
Because the... Okay, I feel it’s always very, very easy to draw comparisons between where you live or the country you live in and your home country. And I know I very often do that at work when somebody complains about the metros in Denmark aren’t very good. And I'm like, wait until you hear this!
But I think I’ll try my best not to turn this into Last Week in Ireland podcast.
Katie:
I will not. I'm going to do it shamelessly. But...
Fionn:
Well, let’s see how it goes. If you're new to the podcast listening, what we typically do is we dig into the three big things that happened last week in Denmark.
And I’m just going to briefly run through those, and we’ll dive right into them. So kind of our headline story for the week is that the parliament has expanded abortion rights by raising the limit to 18 weeks. And there is a couple of other factors in there as well, like giving 15 to 17 year olds full decision-making powers over their right to get an abortion.
Our second topic is that, or the headline at least, is that motherhood still stalls women’s careers, with far fewer mothers than fathers returning to full-time work after two years.
And finally, we are going to look at the experts call for national hearing guidelines on tinnitus as cases in young people have more than doubled since 2010. So we have three topics this week as we normally do. And let's dive right into the first one, the headline of the week, the new abortion limit.
And, maybe just to give a very brief little bit of a background on this, this happened actually very recently. So, on Thursday, the Danish Parliament voted to expand abortion rights by raising the limit to 18 weeks. Two other votes also happened.
So, there was kind of three bills in total. I mentioned the giving 15 year olds to 17 year olds, so those under 18 and above 15, the right of decision making power on abortion. And also there was a vote to whether or not to replace the five regional abortion councils with a new national abortion board. And all of those have passed with the, kind of headline one, the 18 week limit passing with 74 votes in favor and 29 against. So pretty decisive, you could say.
And the government is now going to amend the Health Act with the new rules, which are going to enter into force from July 1st this year. So also pretty soon. No big surprises I would say in terms of what parties kind of voted for and against.
So the government was supported by Enhedslisten, Socialistisk Folkeparti, the Alternativet, and Radikale Venstre, and one from Liberal Alliance. And the more conservative parties were voting no, so to speak. So Det Konservative Folkeparti, the Conservatives, Liberal Alliance and Dansk Demokraterne with one Venstre politician joining them. Now, this has been in the works for a while. The agreements were first being announced over a year ago.
And Katie, what do you thought? Is it soon enough that they brought them in?
Katie:
Never. Never soon enough. I, as a woman and a lesbian, I have a lot of feelings about anything that tries to take away a women's right to the autonomy of her body.
I do understand it’s not a straightforward subject. I do understand, obviously, babies are very cute, and very small. And also that kind of debate of when does a life starts? When does a human start to get rights? When do we start to consider them a living, breathing thing? But at the same time, I think there is just a huge knowledge gap, with myself included. I don’t know what are the full consequences of being pregnant. I’ll often turn around to my mother and be like your teeth can fall out? And she will be like, yeah.
And it’s like, okay, no one really tells you those things. I think particularly when you’re younger, because your body as a woman isn’t fully formed, say, for example, your hips, if a younger person has a baby, it can have huge long-term effects on their physical well-being. So that’s where like, obviously, this is good. This is a step in the right direction. It is thankfully what I come to expect living in a place like Denmark, and it's part of why I feel very safe, and my rights are safe here, unlike other parts of the world. And I think it is extremely positive to see that there's still work going towards this, I think, in Ireland, where we’re from. And there is very much of a kind of attitude of, we’ll have a big referendum, everyone will vote on it, and then that’s it. And then we’ll talk about it in 10 to 15 years.
And I think it causes a huge amount of stress in Ireland, because, you know, you kind of think, particularly, say, for the gay marriage referendum, it was, well, if we don’t get it now, who knows if we’ll ever get it. And why does an entire country have to come together to vote on these things?
I don’t really, know, because of our net politicians. But anyway, this, they, there’s very much of a, this, we’ve done that, that big thing is over, let’s move on. Whereas in Denmark, this kind of consistently pushing forward and kind of saying, how do we give more rights? How can we make this more fair? It’s definitely a positive thing. But my inner female outrage at, why can’t I just have the power to make decisions over my body?
It still kind of rises up when things com in. And I am a bit, why 15 to 17 year olds? What about a 14 year old? What is it about a 14 year old that we don’t want to give them those rights? And then I know in the UK from the age of 13, you can have an abortion without your parents consent. So I am like finding the reasoning behind why specifically 15 to 17 year olds, but not somebody sooner.
And also, what the different kind of circumstances that we want to take into account for these things? You know, children are often abused. There can be that they don’t understand what’s happened. What does it change in those circumstances? Sometimes the parents are involved in those cases. And I know as a world, we don’t really want to talk about these things, but it is this the reality of the world that we’re living in.
So, what’s going to be put in place to protect those young women? And that’s where it’s a good thing, but I am also enraged. But what do you think, Fionn?
Fionn:
Well, I can tell you, I certainly have a lot of feelings on that as well, as a father, that almost feels like a cut bed to say, because I think all the women in my life and the women who aren’t in my life as well, should have full control over their own health care, right? So obviously, but I think those feelings are maybe even more emphasised as a father of a daughter, who’s currently very small, only a few years old.
So, you know, right now, this is not a discussion that we heve or need to have. But obviously, I want her to have the most highest degree of safety and autonomy possible when she grows up. I think the reason, at least the official reasoning behind the 15-year -old age limit, is that the age of consent or the minimum age of sexual consent is 15 years old.
And so they have kind of aligned that so to speak, with the idea that, okay, if you are legally allowed to have sexual intercourse at the age of 15, you can make decisions about your own body. And also patients who are from the age of 15 and up, they’re able to give informed consent for treatments in the health care system in accordance with the current health care laws.
So I think that’s the political or legal reasoning behind the 15-year-old age limit. But I get the point as well. I mean, there is, it would be naive to just say, okay, well, there’s no 14-year-olds or 13-year-olds having sex. I mean, they are, whether that is in, I don't know if you could call it necessarily consenting, but you know, with their peers, or whether it’s in obviously a much worse abusive situation.
But I do think this is absolutely a very positive step, right, in that direction, because, again, you know, thinking if my own daughter ever needed to have one, I would always hope that she could speak to me about it and get support, and you know, everything, the positive love that I could bring right to my own child.
But I know fully that there aren’t plenty of kids, unfortunately, out there who aren’t in that situation, whether it’s because of abuse within the family or just because they don’t have that relationship with their parents. They don’t have the psychological safety, maybe, to discuss it with their parents, or it could also just be because of cultural or religious factors, for example, where abortions is seen as taboo in that culture or that religion. And therefore they don’t feel like they could get their parent’s consent.
Katie:
I do think as well, though, like, I’m sure you’re wonderful and your daughter would definetely feel supported and that she’d come for you. You’re nice man. But at the same time, it’s not really your business, you know, in the sense that it is, yeah, each person should have the right to kind of go, this is not right for me in this moment, as well as all those other reasons where people might not have the support they need.
So, as you say, like, it’s definitely better that they’re moving in that right direction.
Fionn:
For sure. Exactly. Yeah.
And I think my point there being just that I would hope they would always feel safe enough to talk about it with me, whether they need my consent or not. Right. But I think it’s a real positive that they don’t need my decision over their own body there.
I mean, you mentioned this idea of what you could say, almost a box ticking exercise in some other countries, where there is a legal framework put in place or a decision made, and then the decision is kind of left statically, so to speak. And that’s maybe one of the reasons here why we’re seeing some progress.
So, the right to abortion in Denmark was introduced in 1973, so it’s been obviously more than 50 years, and the Health and Interior Minister, she was basically saying, okay, like, it’s been 50 years, there rules and laws need to move with the times. And the original reason that the 12 week limit was stablished was at least partly due to the fact that at that time, all abortions were surgical, and there were more complications after 12 weeks, and there was a greater risk, right, of complications, I assume, for the mother as well. But obviously, in the meantime, this may surprise you, but medical science has advanced.
And that’s not to say that there are no complications still possible with a procedure like an abortion. But, obviously, we have made such huge advances in medicine generally that it is, I think, now considered safer for the mother or for the woman to be able to get an abortion after that.
So, of course, that’s not the only reason given, but I think that’s maybe a positive example of actually law or politics catching up with the times, so to speak, and very often people, technonogy moves a lot faster than politics does. But maybe in this case, yeah, it’s caught up at that little bit. And yeah, that’s reflecting that.
And I don’t know, I’m always pleasantly surprised when, in whatever country, the, yeah, laws, rules, whatever they be, actually seem to be adjusted to fit with more modern day and age, because there’s a lot in a lot of countries that seem to be, you know, well, this law from the 1880s is going to prevent you from doing X, Y, or Z. And yeah.
Katie:
Or in this current economic climate some bigger countries will just be like, dad, will we get rid of all of the work we’ve done over the last 50 years? Who needs that? It’s only everyone’s rights ever. So yeah, it’s nice to be here.
Fionn:
Exactly. Who needs that? No, I mean, we’ve kind of started on a topic that is somehow entwined with pregnancy, motherhood, children.
And our second topic is quite similar in some ways to that, or could kind of carry a vein through that. And Katie, I am probably going to shock you with this. And you may not know, but there is a gender pay gap in Denmark.
Katie:
What? Oh my God. Do you think they have that everywhere?
Is it just us? It’s terrible.
Fionn:
Surely not. And it is unfortunately that women are making less than men. I know you were probably thinking it was the other way around.
Katie:
What! That's ridiculous.
Fionn:
Yes. But this is our second topic, so to speak, of the week where the Dansk Industry has come out with new kind of fresh analysis, pointing to one of the most significant factors contributing to the gender pay gap is the decision to start a family. And as they put it, parenthood has basically proved uneven over the years and far more women than men are actually reducing their working hours after they become parents. So, after two years after giving birth, only about half of women are still working at least 35 hours, while for men that figure was 83%. So considerably higher. And yeah, I mean, obviously this is something that has a huge impact on society as a whole, but particularly one half of society. And maybe I can throw that to you as our representative today of one half of all of society.
Katie:
Oh, I do love to get enraged about all things about women and their rights. But yeah, I think, I think my, my gripe with this article is, or this research that's been done is just this is not new. But not, I don't feel like a huge amount has been done about it. We obviously have the recent introduction of that kind of legislation encouraging men to take more paternity leave, which is amazing because I do think it's very easy for women, particularly in countries where there isn't a lot of paternity leave. So in Ireland, you get two weeks of paternity leave as the father. And it's very easy to say, God, he doesn't know how to do anything. He doesn't know how to feed the mother, has to do everything. It's like, realistically, men have not had the space or opportunity to fulfill the role of a father the same way that a mother has forever. And it is, of course, there are expectations on women in the sense of, like, they be at home, they do this, they do that. But realistically, if a man does that, in a lot of countries, that scene is very strange. Or it's very like, what's wrong with him that he has to stay home and do these things? Or it's very like, oh, isn't he amazing? Look at him doing this when he's doing exactly the same thing. So, again, it's. It's lovely to be in a country that's moving in the right direction towards these things and giving men that opportunity. And. And in a way that it's like, you're incentivized to take this opportunity, so absolutely take it. But it's probably, I, my impression would be it's an incentive that isn't necessary because first of all, working is terrible. Who wants to do that when you can be playing with, like, children have very fun toys these days. There's a lot to. There's a lot to be said for that. But as well, to kind of try and even that out, but also just to kind of, you know, the patriarchy affects women, but it affects men as well that they don't get to come into that space and get to spend that time with their children. And particularly in those early years, if you don't get to have that connection, if you don't learn about your children's needs, there's so much development happening. It's just going to get that much further as you get further on from when they're born. So it is. It's wonderful to see. But again, it's this kind of like, oh, you crazy mothers are not returning to work. It's like, it's been like this for so long. And it's also, okay, we have this research. What are we going to do about it? And I think, you know, even mental Donald Trump is like, let's give women $5,000 to have a baby. You know, and it is like, okay, that's not the right approach ever, Donald. But at the same time, it is what is it? We have declining birth rates globally we need people to have more children. We know less and less people are having children. And it is a case of some women want careers. So it is a case. We have so much stone cold hold research that says, this is going to affect your career 100%. And even I, I'm in my 30s, I work with women in my 30s. And in my mind I am like, are these women going to get pregnant? And it is. It's something that's in the back of your mind all the time and it shouldn't be. Everybody should be able to take that time out if they would like to. And it's contributing to the world. So I think it's a bit like, yes, it's not unexpected research, not unexpected results, but what are we going to do next? I think there was research a few weeks ago as well, we talked about on the podcast of. I think it was younger families moving to part time, more so and full time. And it's like we're seeing. Okay, this was particularly about motherhood, but it is. Parents aren't being supported enough in having children. Children are very hard. I don't have any. I know you have a million, but like, they seem really difficult and sticky and messy. So it is a case of like, what supports are there for people and then particularly how do we even out this between men and women. It's great that we've identified it, but we kind of already knew it was there, so mixed feelings about this. But I actually think you might have a more interesting perspective because you have a million children and, you know, you have gone through this and then as well, you know, with you and your partner, did you. You obviously took some paternity leave, but then did she go part time? Did you go. Both go back to full time? How is that transition, all that?
Fionn:
Yeah. So I would just like to clarify for the record, my million children equates in real money to. To two. Two children. So I've. I've broken all the Irish stereotypes there by not having a giant family. But yeah, I mean, they are sticky and messy and they are hard work. I was absolutely so excited for my paternity leave with my, my second child, my. My daughter who's just turned two. And I was actually counting down the days in my calendar, really looking forward to it. Of course, the first weekend where I went on paternity leave or very shortly thereafter, my partner and my son were away for the weekend. I was at home with my daughter and she had an upset tummy. And I think I changed somewhere between 25 and 30 nappies in a day, which wasn't the most pleasant, but it did give me some vindication that, okay, maybe, you know, in the silent one-upmanship of who's done more work around the house, I'm earning some points back of like, oh, yeah, you've been off for a few months. Well, I just probably changed enough diapers in one month in one day to equal that out. But to your point, yeah, I've had very different experiences. I have two kids. My son is 6 years old and actually we had him just before we moved to Denmark. So, at the time we lived in Switzerland. I was working for a Danish company. And when, like, just before I had my son, they told me, you know, well, paternity leave is one day, but we're a Danish company and we live by Danish values, so we're going to give you another day. And so, I definitely just went into my boss and said, okay, I'm not going to be here for two months and you can pay me or not pay me. I hope I'll have a job on there when I come back, but I'd like to take this time off. And it wasn't an issue there. And obviously that, you know, meant not having a salary for two months, but it was absolutely worth all the time in the world or all the money in the world to have that time, particularly as, yeah, a young couple having their first kid in a country where we had no support network. We had friends, of course, but we no family or anything like that. Very different experience the second time around with my daughter, we had her here and I was lucky enough to get paternity leave after this new EU maternity leave directive had come into effect, which was the 1st of August, 2022. So I think I went in November that year. So I had four or five months where I got to spend time with my daughter. Like, the level of bonding was amazing. Right? So, one, it was really nice to not be at work because, of course, it was still a lot of work with a little daughter. But, you know, I again, would not have traded any of that time at all, despite it being during us renovating our house and me living in a basement with builders, you know, literally knocking down the house above us. But it was still a really magical time, I thought. And, you know, that first time when I took those two months off, I had exactly the experience you mentioned, not of, well, to some degree, people being like, oh, like, have you changed the diaper? Like these very, very low expectations of my capabilities as a parent. But then, you know, when people saw that I was actively involved, this kind of gushing, like, oh, wow, isn't he incredible? And it frustrated me so much that, you know, my partner, who had also, she had just given birth, right. Was doing all the same kind of stuff and more naturally, you know, I, despite my best efforts, have not cracked breastfeeding myself. And yet, you know, she was getting none of that and I was getting what to me ultimately felt like really condescending amounts of praise for that. And I felt grieved on my behalf and her behalf half. And that was very different the second time around. And I know I had a lot of male friends and colleagues who had kids around the same time and every single one of them, you know, was so excited to take leave. Some took a little bit more than the max, a little bit, a little bit less than the max, I should say, but all of them took a significant chunk and the flexibility of being able to give some of it to your partner. Right. It did mean there was still an element of like, okay, well, what's going to actually work for us as a family, that was great. But I think, you know, that's just something that, you know, I, as a, as a man, I don't want to necessarily have the traditional role of, okay, he's the breadwinner who has to provide everything. That's a lot of stress.
Katie:
Also boring. Like, you have to carry around a briefcase. I don't know what people have in there anymore.
Fionn:
That just gum and, I don't know, paper, bits of, yeah. Easter egg wrappers at the moment. But the idea that, you know, this and this, as we said, it hasn't really changed. We kind of knew this existed before. In fact, there has been virtually no change over the last 10 years according to Dansk Industry. But I'm hoping, right, these new rules, which wouldn't really have been included in this report as they came in out in 2022 and this report was looking at people who became first time parents in 2021. I really hope that will have a positive effect because I just think it makes sense, right, to be equal partners with your partner and not for one of them who's already going through a huge amount of sacrifice and change in actually being pregnant and having the changes in your body and going through all of that, to then also be the only one necessarily who's faced with like, well, is my career going to recover from this? So, I think both myself and my partner work full time. We both have pretty much since my daughter was born, I worked a little bit part time after my son was born. But I would love the opportunity to work part time or just have that be as expected maybe as it would be the other way around and conversely not have one party or person feeling a pressure that like, well, the support isn't there. So you should be the one to, to sacrifice.
Katie:
Yeah, I do, I do think it's as well a very positive sign that we're moving in this direction of equality, because it is like okay, women don't have the same rights as men, we know that. But it's also men don't have the same freedom as women do in a lot of ways. And once we like the solution to a lot of inequality is equality or men, that then aids women to start filling in the gaps because that is where women's rights came from. It was when all the men went off to war and they needed people in the factories and then they were like, oh, women can do things too. So it is, I like that we're kind of moving into this place as well of kind of like we're giving men something to give women something. So everybody's getting something and getting to break out of those stereotypes that just won't go away.
Fionn:
Yeah. And I think it's, I mean we're kind of approaching into a bit of a tangent now. But there is also in the newsletter this week there's kind of a point about like incel culture or the, the manosphere.
Katie:
Have you seen Adolescents? On Netflix.
Fionn:
I haven't. I've been a bit nervous to watch it. I'm going to watch it but I know it's going to be, be a ride. But when you look at so many of these like really toxic masculinity influencers online, like they're promising essentially young men, but I mean young men but old men as well or I don't know if, yeah, if I count as an old man but like that comes up in my feet. Yeah. And I'm in no way receptive to it. But you know, it is promising this stereotype, this return to some kind of glorious past where the man was just the man of the house and everything fell in place. But society just doesn't work like that anymore. Right? Like no, you need two people working in order to afford rent or, or a house and everything. And so I think it's really important for particularly young men to see equality as actually a route to their lives getting better. Because if you feel like the weight of the world is on your shoulders and you're the one who has to offer everything, well, that's going to send you down a pretty dark path. Whereas, if, I don't know, you're maybe exposed to. Generally, the thoughts were particularly more positive. Male role models who stand up and say, yeah, it's like, just as manly to take care of a baby or support my partner or do all these things. I think that's a really important message to be sharing as well.
Katie:
Yeah, I just think as well. Again, sorry, I know we're kind of going off topic, but I think, again, it's kind of the same thing where it's that, you know, there are these men and they're coming up with these very problematic solutions. But realistically, it’s m en don't have the same support systems women do, because we've always supported each other. Women have much more friends, we have more emotional connections, we have more emotional support. And it is. I work with some very lovely young men, but they're lonely, and I think they sometimes they act in a way where I'm like, ooh, that's problematic. I wouldn't like that. But it comes from a place of wanting companionship, and they just don't know how to communicate that in a normal way coming from different cultures and things like that, I think that can be quite difficult to communicate. And it is a case of, like, it’s, if it’s, they're lonely. They want to, like, have a partner, but they just don't know how and don't have that emotional support or even maybe the language to talk about those things. So we kind of come back again of, if we as a society can teach men to kind of work with their feelings, build these support networks, they're going to do a lot better. And then they don't feel like they need to tear somebody else down to get to what they need to get. I think, as well, as you say it is, just realistically, if you have one person with a salary and they get fired, then you're. You're a bit done.
Fionn:
Absolutely. And on that note, speaking of difficulties maybe in communication, last week in the podcast. Thank you. Last week, this podcast discussed the hidden epidemic of sleep apnea, with, I think, an estimated 400,000 cases in Denmark. And this week, we have an even more widespread disorder which is getting attention after a survey in the National Health Profile showed that 1 in 10 respondents between the ages of 16 and 24 have some degree of tinnitus. That's a doubling of the figures since 2010. And the Danish Health Service estimates that there's around 770,000 Danes who are suffering from this condition, which would make it one of the widest health issues in Denmark, which is pretty wild. If you don't know what tinnitus is, just very, very briefly, it is essentially like a loud or loud or kind of ever present ringing in the ears. It is essentially kind of a phantom noise. So it could be ringing, it could be clicking, buzzing, roaring. And for some people it's constant. For some people it goes away and comes back. But it can have pretty serious health implications, including hearing loss. But also. Yeah, things in terms of mental health as well. Right. Having a constant sound buzzing in your ears isn't great for, for stress or relaxation or sleeping. But Katie, you were telling me that you were reading a little bit into this and maybe noticed some recommendations for your own listening habits that you, you might be adopting after some of the report and findings from the Danish Hearing Association.
Katie:
Yes, it's one of these. I love these kind of articles because it's. I didn't realize how much I didn't know about this until I spent five minutes reading about it. And then I was like, oh my God, what have I done? I suppose like for a bit of background. I'm not a concert person. I don't really like noise. I obviously listen to some music, but not a lot. I'd be much more of a listen to the song on my headphones because I think it will sound better. That's because my mother hated noise. So I just didn't really. I know like, like a niche number of hits from the 80s and then I pick up again in the 2000s, but any music in between, I have no idea. So. And I always thought, well, I don't go to concerts. I've been to a handful of them and I do wear earplugs. But they're very much, they cut off once it goes above a certain, once it gets too high pitched, basically. Limo Maynley is an Irish singer who loves to screech. So that was when I really noticed the impact of them. But it doesn't cancel out sound or anything. It just kind of cuts it once it gets too high pitched. But like that I was like, this isn't relevant to me. And I think even in terms of awareness. I only found out tinnitus was a thing when I met someone in my early 20s who was like, oh, I have tinnitus. And I was like, okay, are you, are you dying? I have no idea what that could mean. And then I learned it was just this ringing.
Fionn:
Something with the tonsils, right?
Katie:
Yeah, it's like, sounds terrible. So I didn't really have awareness of it at all. But then also then when I did learn about it, I was like, okay, it's not relevant to me because my friends go to concerts, they go to festivals, and I never do anything like that. But I do listen to audiobooks all day long. And I have learned from reading this article that sometimes it's just if you're listening to something non stop, that can cause a lot of damage to your ears. So I, when I'm walking to work, when I walk home from work, and then sometimes if I'm very bored when I'm in work, but also if I'm traveling, if I'm on planes, I prefer to listen to music than to read it because then I could fall asleep and pretend I read a book. But that, that surprised me a lot that you're meant to take listening breaks. It's also, I guess, a bit frustrating for me. God, I've been enraged this whole podcast. Sorry. But it is like, oh, the experts have written and this thing's like, avoid listening to things too loudly for too long. It's like, what's too loudly and what's too long? What does that actually mean? And then so I listen to audiobooks on a relatively low volume, but I listen to them quite quickly. Does that make a difference? Because the sound is more constant if they're reading at a faster rate. And then, yeah, I even just like, I suppose what's the difference between when I'm listening to it in headphones or I'm listening to it out in my apartment? Because sometimes I put them on when I'm just, well, it makes me clean, basically. So it made me realize, you know, okay, thank you experts for bringing this to our attention. But there's so much information we don't have. And then it's also, we are in a more digital age. I wear headphones all the time to talk to customers. I'm wearing headphones talking to you as well. But then I'm wearing headphones on my way home. So it is, there's that. But then I think also the world is noisy. Like, one of the big things I love about Åhrus is there was one day I was walking home at 11 at night and I had a moment of like, oh my God, who's behind me? But I was hearing my own footsteps and I realized I just had never heard my own footsteps when I lived in Ireland, even though I lived in a commuter town outside the city centre. So I was just like, oh my God, just frightened myself. So it is that kind of. If we get too far the other way and we're always wearing earplugs and we're always very sensitive to sound, then how are we going to function if you go to London where everything is just a wall of noise? So, I am interested to see what these recommendations are. I'm also a little bit like, how much do these experts know? Like how much have we actually looked into this topic? Because what is too long for me as an older person versus a younger person, do we need to build up a tolerance? There is, when you look into it, there is no information on this. So I fully believe there's an epidemic.
Fionn:
Yeah. And I think that was one of the things that maybe surprised me at first because when I read this article, I saw, okay, it's like 10% of people between 16 and 24 at least, who responded to the survey, right? And then the more I kind of researched, I said, well, actually it's fairly common and around 15 to 20% of people get affected by this. But I think where maybe the concern with this is that it's such young people. So there is, at least from my understanding, it is a higher degree of the population, but it skews a lot older. Right. So typical things like hearing loss overall, but also things that could be related to either aging or general, like worsening of health. So some medications could, could contribute to it getting like overall hear loss, hearing loss. So that also happens a little bit as you, as you age, but even things like ear infections or blockages. And then there's a number of different diseases which can contribute to it as well. But I think obviously one of the maybe key worries is this hearing loss. And if you have such a large proportion of, you know, teenagers and young people experiencing that, it's probably more related to that and loud noises and constant loud noise than it is things that you might associate with somebody in their 70s or their 80s. So I think there is definitely a very serious health implication for it because as I mentioned a little bit before, having this constant ringing in your ears can really cause people stress and a huge amount of depression as well. So from a mental point of view, also things like memory problems and just general anxiety, irritability, fatigue. But I think one thing that I've really noticed over the last few years has been the commercial, how would I put this? The availability of ear protection. That's a very weird way of saying things like earplugs. So, you know, I suddenly started seeing ads for brands like Loop Earplugs.
Katie:
That's how you never hold.
Fionn:
Yeah, exactly. But, you know, I used to work in a, like influencer marketing tech company and there was like a, definitely a group of customers there that were, you know, using influencer marketing specifically to promote their earplugs. And I was like, okay, that's such a niche thing. But it was more and more like people being maybe a bit more health conscious and then even, I mean, right now I'm wearing a pair of Apple AirPods and those have a function in them where they can actually reduce down incoming noise if it gets over a certain, certain decibel limit. So it does seem. Yeah, like again, there's both the expert and maybe state opinion on it, but there's also the broader society or kind of commercial, private business driven. Yeah, clearly, like there's a need and a niche, right? That people are seeing, whether it's people going to concerts or just generally people not wanting to have so much exposure to noise. And I can really understand that whether living in a city, you are exposed, not necessarily always to huge amounts of loud noise, but there is a level of noise that is very constant. And I think there's a lot of studies that have shown that that is actually quite detrimental, right? To our overall, both mental and like, even cardiovascular health just by inducing like a higher, higher stress level. So, yeah, I think this is probably something we're going to hear more and more.
Katie:
Will we hear it, do you think?
Fionn:
Oh, God, I
Katie:
I'm sorry.
Fionn:
I should try and claim that I was setting that up, but I'm not charismatic enough for that. But on that note, worth hearing, we should wrap up the podcast for today and just say a huge thank you to all our listeners and encourage you to check out the Last Week in Denmark substack, the newsletter if you're not already signed up for it. And of course, our socials across all good social platforms as well. That's it from me today. Katie, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting.
Katie:
Yes. I'm so glad I did this with you. I never mentioned the socials of the substack. Very good, very good.
Fionn:
That's all, folks. Have a great week ahead.
Katie:
Bye.
