Defense spending surge; Reactivating conscripts; Citizenship hurdles: LWID S3E20

What does it really take to belong in Denmark today? Some of the country’s biggest shifts are happening behind the headlines. This week on Last Week In Denmark, co-hosts Narcis and Fionn—both internationals living in Denmark—unpack three quietly significant developments: the government’s push to boost defense spending, plans to reactivate former conscripts, and new hurdles facing citizenship applicants—changes that could quietly reshape life and belonging in Denmark.

Topics: 

• (03:13) Defense spending surge
• (15:16) Reactivating conscription
• (27:03) Citizenship denial

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Chapters

• 3:13 War readiness in Denmark
• 15:16 Danish Army Conscription
• 27:03 Citizenship denial in Denmark

Transcript

Fionn: 

Hello and welcome to Last Week in Denmark podcast. This is episode 20 of season 3. My name is Fionn:  and joining me this week is none other than Narcis. Narcis, how are you doing?

Narcis: 

Hello, hello. I cannot believe that we actually got to episode 20. I mean, it must be episode 20 of the newsletter or is it episode 20 of the podcast?

Fionn: 

I think it's episode 20 of the podcast. We had a few newsletters in January before we launched the podcast. But yeah, 20 episodes.

That's amazing. Wow. That's not bad.

Narcis: 

We made 20 episodes in one season. I think we didn't have 20 episodes in total in the previous two seasons.

Fionn: 

That's true, yeah. I was looking at that recently and it's funny, I still feel, you know, very new to the Last Week in Denmark team, so to speak, and the podcast because we started season 3 in January and that's also when I kicked off. But yeah, now if you look at the body of work, season 3 is the big one.

Narcis: 

Yeah, it's the big one and soon to be over. I guess, what, there's two more episodes and then we are finally taking that well-deserved vacation. Oh, I don't know what you're talking about.

Fionn: 

This is vacation.

Narcis: 

Fionn , we haven't done an episode together so far, or we have had one, I think, at some point in the previous... Not a live one, maybe a test one. Okay, this is our first episode ever.

Fionn: 

Amazing. This is our first one. I, you know, I've been spreading rumors that you've been avoiding me.

I've been very hurt. But finally, finally we're here.

Narcis: 

Yeah, it's the lady randomness, I guess. Lady randomness that decides how we get to talk to each other. Maybe in season 4, in the autumn, we'll get to perform together more often.

But otherwise, Fionn , what's interesting today? What's on the topics that we have to tackle?

Fionn: 

Yeah, so, well, as always in this podcast, we like to dive into three big things that happened last week in Denmark. The club is in the title. And this week, obviously, we have three.

I think the first two are quite linked to each other. And the third one is maybe a little bit different, but I think something that's really going to be maybe of interest to particularly our international audience. So our topics this week are Denmark planning to boost its defense spending to 5% of GDP.

That's something I think we've touched on a few times before, but it's really getting concrete now. Our next topic, which we're going to discuss, which is kind of part of that, is the government announced plans to reactivate thousands of former conscripts into what they're calling a mobilization force. And so we'll touch on that in a little bit as well.

And then our final topic is that Danish citizenship, which we already know is quite difficult to get, can actually be denied despite meeting all the rules and requirements. So I think we've got three pretty meaty topics for today.

Narcis: 

Yeah, perfect to discuss at 10 in the morning on a Saturday.

Fionn: 

Exactly, exactly. It's 10 in the morning, it's a Saturday morning, and nothing says cozy weekend like a NATO summit in Vilnius, where leaders of the eastern countries in NATO and the Nordic countries in NATO, they met last Monday. Okay.

And this is kind of taking place prior to a bigger NATO summit in Den Haag at the end of June. And added, Mette Frederiksen obviously was there, and she floated the idea. I'm not sure it's an entirely new idea, I'm not sure it's entirely only her idea, but she was kind of floating the idea of this NATO spending plan to get up to that 5%.

But not only to have it be 5% on hard military spending.

Narcis: 

I mean, there what I can say is that the 5% increase in military is something that the US has pushed for a long time. It's the wish of the Americans that the European countries are spending more money on defense, so that the US can focus or move most of their military focus on Asia, specifically on China. So that's why they asked Europe to raise to 5%.

Unfortunately for Europe, 5% on defense spending has seemed unreal for decades, because since the Soviet Union has fallen for us in Europe, it felt like military is just an accessory. We have downgraded and downgraded the defense budgets with every possibility. We have cut as much as possible.

We have cut out of the size of the military, the importance of the military. So with time, it has really like decayed, you can say, the European military. But now we are in a situation where Denmark, like a country that in the past, let's just say years, they have focused so much on limiting public spending on a European level, on a NATO level, on a Denmark level, to make sure that we all are on plus somehow at the end of the year.

Now they are like, you know what, to hell with all the debt, let's make sure that we can defend ourselves. Because if we cannot protect ourselves, then it doesn't really matter if we have debt or not, right? Exactly.

Fionn: 

And this is always the thing, and I think I've said this many times on this podcast before, but like, whenever I see, you know, an extra 1% of the budget or an extra billion being spent on bullets or tanks or, you know, defense spending, there's a part of me that's like, oh, god, that's a billion that's not going to go to hospital beds or education. But I am also coming around to the idea of like, well, what's the point in, you know, a great welfare society if if it's not there anymore. So I think there's also been a kind of shift in public perception generally around this and more and more people are kind of in favor of increased defense spending.

Narcis: 

Yeah, I think the majority is in favor. Problem is, people don't know how to approach the spending, who should pay for it? Because 5% for Denmark, for Denmark itself is a huge increase.

We're talking about the massive leap in public budgets. That means we need to cut from somewhere else, or we need to go into debt. And I think that's, they were not very specific about it.

They didn't want to really open their, because there was a debate on TV, on Danish TV, where all the party leaders were invited, including Mete. And the discussion was, how do we pay for the increase in the defense budget? And to be honest, it has been very vague, because the Prime Minister couldn't say it or didn't want to say that most likely they will not be increasing taxes, or they will not be cutting budgets in education or healthcare.

But what they will do is that they will on a European level, together with other EU states, they will borrow money from the private market, just like they did during the Corona times. It's just, they know this is not a popular decision, because it literally means that we're creating, we are creating European debt, something that didn't exist until so long ago. Right?

It's the fact that we all as Europeans have a debt, we have something in common now, more than just the idea that we are Europeans, we also have debt, you know, that we have to pay for in the next, I don't know how many decades. So I think that's the best plan. We need to, that's why there's this focus also on the US, right?

In the US, they want to remove the debt limit on spending. In Germany, they want to remove the debt limit on spending. All the states are aware of this.

We are so sensitive to what's happening politically that if you do any cuts in, I don't know, unemployment benefits or in quality of welfare society, that will just radicalize even more people or push more people into the hands of Russia. So at the same time, they need to keep the same level of spending they had so far, plus now they actually have to spend money on military. So I think the only solution here is literally to borrow money from the private markets.

I don't know. What do you think?

Fionn: 

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that I thought was quite interesting about Mette Frederiksen's kind of proposal, which was essentially that NATO countries would spend 3.5% of their GDP on higher military spending, and then 1.5% of their GDP on other security challenges. And that could be things like preparedness, it could be things like cyber attack defense, but even things like infrastructure projects, because better roads help you deploy your troops faster. And I thought that point was actually quite interesting in the broader context of how do you sell this to the public.

Because it is easier, I think, to show that, okay, here is this massive amount, because 5% of GDP would be like 150 billion kroner, which if you're like me and always still convert everything back to euros, that's what about 20 billion euros, it's enormous. But if you're actually seeing maybe that, you know, you live somewhere in Denmark, and now there is a proper highway being built there, or rail lines are getting upgraded, and it's nominally, you know, coming under this infrastructure, or spending package, but it's being spent on infrastructure that yes, has a military benefit. And that's, you know, just thinking physical infrastructure, but it could be digital infrastructure as well.

And I think maybe then the ordinary person knows, okay, we're doing something to boost our kind of military preparedness, but we're also actually seeing an everyday benefit to that. And I think that could actually, you know, smooth out some ruffles within this.

Narcis: 

I mean, you have to understand the whole defense spending or increased defense spending is a gold rush for most entrepreneurs. We're talking here about all the buildings that the military has have to be renovated. That means, for example, if you have a construction company, there's a lot of contracts that you can obtain, they want to buy as much as possible technology and services that they need locally.

So that means startups and technology providers from Denmark will have quite a windfall. You know, we're talking about reopening the bullet factory in Frederikshavn. Again, we have the chance to create a lot of new jobs in areas that are the most poor in Denmark, like the north of Denmark.

So I mean, economically speaking, a military, or like, when you have to increase your military, the economy should be actually benefiting, we should see an increase in number of workplaces being created, we should see more economic activity in general, because you have this now huge demand from one side, we have, like you said, 150 billion that need to be spent. And the idea will be spend as much as possible of that in Denmark. That's all the countries will try that.

Hey, guys, I know we have to spend all this money now, but can we try to keep it in the economy? So somehow it goes back into our coffers. Because what it means, it means if there's more economic activity, there is more taxes to be collected, there's more money in there.

So actually, the deficit will not be so bad. If you go into using borrowed money, especially if you're using borrowed money, you would like them to stay in the country as much as possible.

Fionn: 

And I mean, you kind of saw elements of that, obviously, now with Russia's economy, partly being propped up by the kind of wartime flooding. But also, most famously, maybe in the US, right, coming out of the Great Depression, it is the rearmament and, you know, mass employment suddenly in the factories that is not the only factor, of course. But it's a major one that helps kind of shake off that era of the Great Depression.

Narcis: 

It's because in Europe, we kept looking for something, right? We said, okay, every year we have this modest growth, economic growth, which keeps staying. We're not dropping a lot, neither we are growing a lot.

We kept looking for, okay, what could, you know, restart Europe or recharge Europe? We thought it would be the whole race for a green transition. It did its effect, but modestly.

I have a feeling that the rearmament, the rearming Europe will also give a huge kick to the economy, like, massive kick. Also, in terms of innovation, I'm seeing a lot of people now trying, scratching their heads, what can we create that the military could use, so that we can also join this gold rush. It's a gold rush.

Everyone wants to be a gold miner. So, you know, if you're listening, think about it. Think about that you have a huge sector of the society that needs almost every type of service you can imagine.

You can think, oh, but there's nothing I can offer the military. You sure about that? Do you work in the food sector?

You can provide food to soldiers. You work in, I don't know, you're a psychologist. They also need to hire psychologists for the soldiers, for the PTSD services.

I think, God, there is everything. Because we're talking about a group of people that need to be serviced from every perspective possible, so that they can do their best to defend us. So I don't see this as a gold rush that's limited to certain people.

It's a gold rush for everyone. You just have to be ready to catch this ride. Because if you missed the last ride, which was the dotcom ride, right?

When the internet exploded and people made money like crazy from making all sorts of strange websites. Now, this is the new rush. You have to be aware of that.

And thankfully, the business house in every region is organizing this. I think every month, there is like a meeting where you can come and learn how to be a supplier for the army and be pre approved so that you can start working with the army. So go to one of these meetings, find your business house in your own region and learn how to be a supplier and join this windfall, gold rush, however you want to call it.

Fionn: 

Well, that actually takes us very smoothly into our next topic, because it may be that all these people in the military who need supplies, as you mentioned, well, there might be a bet to be a lot more of them. So if we had Monday being a NATO meeting in Lithuania, on Thursday, which was obviously Denmark's Constitution Day, well, most of the ministers were out giving speeches around the country. Mette Frederiksen and the defence minister, Trusland Poulsen, were in Brussels for another NATO meeting.

And the defence minister there announced this idea, he announced a few different things. But one of the things he announced was that if there's one thing the armed forces are lacking, it is manpower. And he is essentially calling for a or drawing up a concrete plan, as he described it, for creating a mobilization force.

The idea being for so many, many thousands of former conscripts who must be ready to join the armed forces in the event of a crisis, or obviously a war. I think the details of that are still a little bit scarce on the ground. But it sounds like it's going to be quite a number of people that we're talking about.

And if we look at other European countries, there's quite a few that do exactly that.

Narcis: 

Yeah, I mean, we're looking, I think the best example is Finland. Like in Finland, I think if I'm not wrong, they have almost 850,000 people who are ready to join the army. They are like the reserves of the army, who know how to use a weapon, who are ready to be operational.

As I said, many EU countries kind of dismiss that idea. Finland has always stayed strong, because they have, I guess, this fresh memory of being directly under attack in the Second World War and fighting for it. So for them, I guess they never really let go of focus on the military, although they also weakened their military over the years.

But in Denmark, we still have the National Guard, where I'm, of course, a part of. And if any of you wants to join the Danish National Guard, you can, you don't need to be a Danish citizen. If you have lived here for five years, then you're good to go.

And you have like some basic notion of Danish. So you know how to jump when they say jump, how to, you know, dig, how to shoot, go left, go right. Pretty much that's your level of Danish that you have to have.

So if you can, if you know where right is and left is, and you have lived for five years, you're welcome to join the Danish Home Guard. The Danish Home Guard will not be sent to war. So the difference between this force that the Defense Ministry wants to create and Danish Home Guard is that Danish Home Guard is for defense only.

So if the enemy troops enter Denmark, then you will be called within two hours to join the nearest barrack. You'll get your weapon, which you usually have at home, and you'll get your bullets from the barrack. And then you'll be assigned to defend a civilian point, let's say.

While if you join the mobilization force, that means being sent to fight whatever the need is to fight wherever in Europe the war is going. So that's what that's the difference between the Home Guard and the mass mobilization force. Most likely, we cannot be part of the mass mobilization force unless they change the law and allow EU citizens to be part of it, at least.

We can only be part of the defense part, which I think is a good thing for us. It's a way for us to show that we are part of Denmark and that we also care about this place. And to be honest, I'm happy to see that in the Danish Home Guard, there's so, so many internationals that now they are considering switching to English in their internal courses and whatnot.

That's how many internationals have joined the Danish Home Guard. That's really interesting.

Fionn: 

Well, yeah, potentially. Although it might require a conversation at home about, yeah, sorry, I'm gonna have to take X number of nights off a month to go and train or something.

Narcis: 

No, no, no, no. Don't imagine that much, Jesus. Okay, if you didn't do your army service yet, yes, you do have this in the first year, you have this three weeks you need to be away, which you can take, luckily, one week at a time or even a weekend at a time until you have your 21 days.

And afterwards, every year you have one day, 24 hours.

Fionn: 

Oh, okay. So it's funny, I come from Ireland, which is a neutral country, and not part of NATO. And the funny thing is, when you look at some other neutral countries, like up until recently, Sweden or Finland, as we just mentioned, or the country that I lived in before I moved to Denmark, which was Switzerland, they all placed a big emphasis on, well, let's say, making sure they're able to enforce their neutrality.

So Finland is a great example, 870,000 reserves. In Switzerland, every guy that I worked with, you know, sometimes would have to take a few days off work because they would be doing their annual military service. And Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership levels in the world, I think, because, again, every man who has done their service keeps a weapon and ammunition at home, just in case.

And I always thought, well, that's probably a little bit much for Switzerland, like who nobody has picked a fight with in about, I don't know, 400 years. But Ireland's view is like the complete opposite, basically. We are a corner of Europe.

And you would think being an island, and most of our territory is actually water, okay, we invest in a good Navy, but it's gotten so bad that we have, I don't know, eight or nine ships. And I think we can maybe put one of them out to sea at a time. And then there's also questions, can we put that out to sea with its weapons loaded, because we don't have the skilled personnel anymore.

So there is also a conversation happening there. I actually once upon a time applied to be in the army in Ireland. The kind of officer corps, and it was during the the recession, so they just opened it up.

And there was, I think, like 50,000 people applied to get in for 30 places. And I think I ended up at number 35 or something, so I didn't get it in the end. But it is something that I've considered here, because when everything with Ukraine started happening, I was suddenly kind of confronted with, oh, I actually live in a country that's part of a military alliance now.

And not that I think I'm necessarily going to suddenly get drafted and sent off to fight anywhere. But, you know, things get out of control, as we were worried about, you know, what the start of 2022, like, is this going to be the start of World War Three? And suddenly I was thinking, oh, shit, maybe I live in a country that could get bombed or something.

And I've grew up with the luxury of never really considering, you know, is Ireland going to be invaded? Well, we've kind of been there and done that.

Narcis: 

Then it's definitely on the blacklist of Russia.

Fionn: 

Exactly, exactly. So it is something that I've kind of had to think about myself, like, well, what would I do, right, if there was some kind of invasion or crisis like that here? And I think the first thing I would want to do is probably get my kids over to Ireland, where they would be safe with their grandparents.

But then I really kind of debate with myself, like, well, should I go with them or should I be here and actually try to defend the home that we have? And not just our physical house, right, but the country that I've made a home in and our way of life. So, yeah, I've definitely thought about it.

I didn't know it was quite that minimal a level of Danish that was needed. That was certainly one of the things that was kind of saying, ah, maybe it's not as good for me.

Narcis: 

Yeah, many people believe the same.

Fionn: 

Yeah. But it's really interesting to hear that there's quite so many internationals joining up in it. But I think, you know, that combined with this mobilisation force, there are increasing steps towards this, I don't know if you would say necessarily a more militarised society, but a more kind of prepared society.

And the other kind of announcement, just to mention that went kind of hand in hand with this, was that the military service, the conscription in Denmark is, well, they had announced previously that it would be lengthened from four months to 11 months and opened up in terms of gender equality. But they announced that that was going to happen from August next year, I think, but now it's going to happen in February next year. So there really seems to be quite a push to...

Narcis: 

It's actually moved to August this year already.

Fionn: 

Is it August this year? Yeah, yeah. Ah, okay.

That was quicker.

Narcis: 

It's because they need the people to start now, immediately. So as soon as possible, the new conscripts that will start in August, they will have to start supporting the professional soldiers in their activities. So that's kind of the big announcement, is that they're no longer just training, but they are actually involved and kind of sitting next to the normal soldiers.

Fionn: 

Yeah, exactly. Well, I think there's definitely a huge shift forward. They say there's sometimes where in history, decades where a week happens and a week where decades happen.

And it feels like over the last months, maybe, there's been a huge, not necessarily change in all of Danish society, but a real leap in terms of our attitude towards defense. I think it's just become so much more real for many of us, maybe like me, who never really consider themselves as being at risk of being invaded or something like that. And I don't know if that will be the way or shape it is likely to take place.

But when we look at the amount of kind of asymmetrical attacks, cyber attacks, all these types of things, I think it's very good for us to be a lot more prepared than we are today.

Narcis: 

To be honest, the most popular part of the Danish Home Guard is actually the train or the logistics part, which is basically the ones who are in charge of drones, of cybersecurity, of intelligence services, of all the supply lines, logistic lines. That's the coolest part. I joined that one, for example.

And it's fun. And what I see the big, let's just say, opportunity here for us as internationals is that if we show that we are there, regardless if it's ever going to be invaded or not, but just the fact that so many internationals will take up weapons to defend Denmark, I think that's such a strong signal to send to the Danish society that we're not here just for our own sakes, but we're here for everyone. So I think that's why I want us to use this kind of opportunity to show that we're all going to defend Denmark when it's going to be needed, right?

It's not going to matter whether you're Danish or not. I think that's what's important to take home here. But I think we don't have a lot of time, so we should still jump into the last subject.

Fionn: 

Yes, absolutely. And maybe it's on the subject of Danishness itself. And that is a case which is kind of being debated at the moment, which is the case of a Pakistani man who is potentially going to be denied Danish citizenship despite having ticked all the boxes, lived here for long enough, not committed any crimes, paid taxes, done the test, speaks Danish.

And essentially, yeah, there is a doubt being drawn upon whether he'll be granted citizenship due to views he is alleged to have specifically around Sharia law and, you could say, Islamic views, which Mikkel Bjørn, the leader of DF, would say have no place in Denmark. And I have a lot of feelings about this, but I don't know what your thoughts are on it.

Narcis: 

I mean, I'm a bit annoyed because from a legal perspective, this is illegal what they are doing. You cannot just set up a law, put all the hurdles and then decide, you know what? You haven't gone through enough hurdles.

There's one more. Jump through this one as well. So now they're going to have to police basically people's opinions, people's thinking.

They want to have this one-on-one interviews, which are not even based on any legal, there's no legal basis for it. So I'm not happy with it. I mean, yes, it's great that you keep away, let's just say, people who don't have democratic views and maybe that's not great for us.

But at the same time, we are no longer a rule of law country if we become subjective about who we, for who the law applies and for who it doesn't apply. So I don't know. Yeah.

Narcis: 

This kind of attitude coming from, and it is coming from the leader of Danksvar Party, so I'm not 100% surprised, right, but to me it says that your society and values seem like they aren't super strong if they suddenly crumble because you have some people who oppose them in your society, if that makes sense. And I'm not saying Danish values are not strong, I think they are, but it's an attitude of, you know, well everything is going to fall down. And there is kind of a growing trend throughout Europe with kind of, I don't know if you could say weaponizing citizenship, but using citizenship as a means of punishment almost, against people who, you know, in some countries, like Germany for example, they have been considering stripping people of citizenship based if they have committed crimes, so if they're dual nationals.

And I think, you know, citizenship should be a marker of somebody having integrated into your society and become Danish or German or, you know, not only living there but really signing up to be a part of the society. But if you're saying that, okay, well you're a dual national and at any time we can revoke your citizenship, then that person is not Danish or German or wherever, they're Danish on probation or German on probation for the rest of their lives. And I think that is crazy.

And the thing that really gets me about it is this is based on values. And what I will absolutely say is that some of the values that, or some of the beliefs that have kind of allegedly been espoused by this gentleman or supported by this gentleman in terms of Sharia law, so, you know, whipping people for adultery, I find absolutely abhorrent. But I also find, you know, coming from Ireland, you know, homosexuality was illegal until 1993 in Ireland.

Divorce was illegal until 1996 in Ireland. Now at the time my family would have supported people's right to be homosexual, supported people's right to get a divorce, and there were many people in Ireland who would have found those views abhorrent. And yet 12 years, like in 2015, Ireland voted in a mass referendum and voted very decisively to not only legalize homosexuality, because that had been done before, but to legalize gay marriage.

Right? So, views shift over time. And the idea that a society cannot have people potentially with conflicting views is really troubling.

But I mean, when we look back on, you know, Jan Arnefelt, who was a famous witch burner in Denmark in the 1700s. Okay. Burning people at the stake is not cool.

I think we can all agree that's abhorrent. Does that make him less Danish? I don't think so.

By the new standards, yes. Right? I don't know.

I find that there's just such a twisted mindset around it that we can disagree with each other in a society that doesn't make us not part of that society, even if people have terrible views that you and I might completely disagree with, and not want to interact with.

Fionn: 

But I mean, look, if we're going for a full value-based society, fine. But then it shouldn't matter if you're a Danish ethnic or not. Even if you have the Danish citizenship and you have crazy ideas, you should be deported.

Where? I don't know. To some country that we make a deal with to be deported.

If we are going that way. So, from this moment on, if you have crazy ideas, like believe in conspiracy theories, you don't want people to get vaccinated, and you have all sorts of stupid things that actually affect society, then it doesn't matter what you are, who you're born, if you're Danish or not, you will lose your citizenship and you will be sent to an alien country that we have to create for you to go. Maybe Greenland.

You can defend there against the Russians. So, I don't know.

Narcis: 

You know, what you're saying is actually, that's some old school democracy. The Athenians, and now I'm sorry, I'm going on a tangent, but in ancient Greece, in ancient Athens, which we often think about like one of the birthplaces of democracy, they had a system called, named after ostraca, which is the word for like a broken piece of pottery. It's where we get the word ostracism.

And if somebody was deemed too powerful or too troublesome, if every year, basically, they would have a kind of assembly and you could be ostracized if enough people carve their name into a piece of pottery saying like, yeah, this person has to go. And they didn't say where you had to go. But then you would be ostracized and you would basically be exiled sometimes forever, if you were really, really troublesome, but sometimes just for a limited amount of time.

And you would basically, you know, what's the worst thing you could possibly do? Have to live with those barbarians somewhere outside of Athens. So, they would banish you.

But that's one precedent. Ten days to leave the city and otherwise you're gone.

Fionn: 

This reminds me of the game shows that were quite popular in the last 10 years where you would go to an island and people could vote you off the island, basically.

Narcis: 

Survivor-based society. Survivor-based society. I mean, we are going a bit in that direction. When we are talking about war, kind of certain things are being, let's just say, suspended.

And I think we have seen that in Second World War that during wartime, beliefs or opposing beliefs are not exactly acceptable. And then usually if you end up to be from the wrong side, even if, for example, if you remember the Japanese in US, right, they had no fault at all, but they end up in internment camps regardless. Because people were afraid they would, you know, take up weapons and start murdering them in their sleep just because they were in the same country.

So, when we are close to war or during wartimes, these ministries of truth or values, this can appear and there will be more discussions on this. And I can see that also on Mete. She's now trying to push this idea that we should not have kneecaps on your head when you go to school, close all the prayer rooms in the educational systems.

It's clear that they are trying to...the fear is that if you don't have a cohesive society, it will not stand the test of war. And to build a cohesive society, you need to remove any elements that do not fit the majority, basically. So, that's kind of the belief.

So, yeah, it will become a bit more difficult for minorities. During war, minorities don't do well. That's just a fact, you know.

So, during war, minorities don't do well. So, this is even more important that you find a way to protect yourself if you are a minority. As I said, join the Danish Home Guard.

They really cannot say anything when they see you have a Danish soldier ID. And find other ways to get involved. Because, as I said, if war comes, minorities are first to suffer for a reason or another.

God forbid, maybe you're from a minority that the enemy comes from. Then you're really not doing well. So, yeah.

But I think we talked a lot today. We covered quite deeply the three subjects. It was a pleasure, Fionn: , to do this with you.

And yeah, I'm looking for...I think this is my last time this season. So, I'm looking forward to season four. And I hope you guys have enjoyed our many, many episodes this spring.

And you'll be with us on the next season. Thank you so much.

Fionn:

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Narcis , for chatting with me today. And to our listeners.

And also to our editor, Leo, for this episode. And we have a few more episodes before the season break. And then we will be taking a quite well-deserved little rest in the middle of July.

Narcis:

But that's it for now. Thanks so much, everybody.