Last Week in Denmark

9,000 Danes Stranded, Nuclear Weapons, and Schools in Trouble: LWID S5E8

• Season 5 • Episode 8

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War in Iran, nuclear debate rising and a Danish election: Katie and Kalpita discuss the global conflict that has left around 9,000 Danish travellers seeking help to get home, the growing debate over whether nuclear weapons could be stationed in Denmark, and the key campaign proposals ahead of the Danish election. They also examine mounting pressure on Denmark’s public school system as more students leave and special classroom agreements increase.


Topics:

(02:03) War in Iran: Danish Travellers Stranded Abroad 

 (08:44) Could Nuclear Weapons Be Stationed in Denmark? 

 (25:51)Are Danish Public Schools in Trouble? 


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Katie

Hello, and welcome to The Last Week in Denmark podcast. This is Katie, and I'm with the wonderful Kalpita for this week's episode. How are you doing, Kalpita? Have you seen the sun?

Kalpita

I have seen the sun, actually, the whole day. It has been glorious, but at the same time, I cannot get myself to get used to the sun because… So you see, the cold and the frost, and you absolutely cannot be in the sun for too long because it's too warm. And then if you're not in the sun for too long, then you're freezing.

Katie

Yeah, you can go and, like, be in a very sunny patch, and then you, like, walk two meters, and then you're in a shadow patch, and you're like, “I'm freezing, I need my coat again!”

Kalpita

Exactly. And there's this trend I saw, and you mentioned it earlier as well, of being in the weather, which is called the wrong coat?

Katie

[Laughs] Yeah, because you can't get the right coat. No matter which coat you wear, it's the wrong one.

Kalpita

Exactly. But you know what? I'd rather have an extra layer with me that I can take off than have one that I miss, and then I'm freezing. Because all those influenzas, and fevers, and coughs that are going around? No thank you.

Katie

Yeah, no, it's absolutely flu season happening right now, everywhere! But talking about things that are happening everywhere, let's jump into the topics this week. So we have a couple of heavy topics for this week. We're going to be talking about the war in Iran and its effects on travelers, because a lot of people have gotten stuck on that side of the world, and the debate about whether nuclear weapons could one day be stationed in Denmark. We're also going to talk about the upcoming election on the 24th of March and all the new campaign trail proposals. And we're going to be talking about some new studies on public schools. So more children are leaving the public school system, and more and more students are getting special agreements within schools. So let's start with the big topic that I'm sure everyone and their mother is aware of: the war in Iran. And maybe what my mother isn't aware of anyway, is of all the people trapped on the other side of the world. So there are around 9,000 people who have contacted the Danish Foreign Ministry for help because they can't get home, which must be so scary, especially when it's because of war. You know? Like, it's not, like, weather or some other strange, weird thing. It's like, “nope, there's a war happening and that's why I can't get home.”

Kalpita

Yeah, I mean, I'm so glad your mom doesn't know, and I hope not many moms know that either. It… it is super scary. I remember during COVID there were a lot of stories going around that people couldn't come back home, and they felt stuck. But this, um, this situation could be really, really critical for people. Minus, I mean, forget the anxiety and… and the worry of hearing fighter jets and bombs falling in your town or city, but at the same time, you not having an escape. While COVID, you could really be in some place and have your peace and quiet, and there was… it wasn't dangerous. It was life-threatening, but it wasn't dangerous. Like, you just don't know when there's some debris going to fall around you, or you're going to be bombed at what time, and where. So that must be really, really anxiety-driving as well. But the good news is that the government is making an effort to bring back people, and probably by the time this episode comes out, we will have some people already back home, or at least on their way.

Katie

I hope so. It must be… it must be such a difficult situation to deal with. Because obviously no one thinks, “oh, a war, good, let me take out my plan B to get everybody home and make sure everyone's safe.” Even when you go on holiday, you do tend to kind of just… I don't know. I find it very easy to be in denial about all the terrible things happening in different parts of the world because I'm in snugly, safe Denmark. But then to kind of be stuck somewhere and think, “oh, what if I can't get out of here? What if I have to stay here, find a place to stay, find a way to survive?” But also, that there could be bombs going off all the time. I have a friend who's in… she used to live here in Aarhus, and we were in the same book club, and then they moved to the UAE because her husband is a pilot, and every day she's posting. And it's a funny one because she'll post it like, “there were loads of missiles and drones today, but also we went to the pub,” or “my kids were out playing because it was sunny,” and it's kind of… life is continuing as normal, but they're just getting this update every day of how many missiles have been intercepted or drones have been intercepted. And then they'll have a quiet day, and then there'll be, like, different kinds of alarms? So there's like a chill alarm that's like, “oh, there's stuff happening, but it's okay.” And then there's other alarms that like, “get into a windowless room right now, and don't leave until we tell you.” And it just… it's funny how quickly some people adapt when it just seems so crazy that that can just suddenly be happening in your day-to-day life.

Kalpita

Yeah. And imagine to pivot from a calm alarm to a really, like, get indoors and stay safe alarm. That also must be really, really wild to be in. I do also have school friends in the Middle East, and they have all luckily confirmed everything's fine, and they feel safe and everything's okay. But imagine you go on a holiday and then you find, in this situation, you know, you just want to escape the cold and be in a warm place and get some sun… And then to find yourself in that situation must be really, really taxing. But then again, it's… it's a war on a whim by just this one person who thinks he can wake up one day, which it seems like it, and decide that, “okay, I'm going to now go have a war in the Middle East because I can.” And every Tom, Dick, and Harry clown is supporting him, and there's no voice of reason, unfortunately. But that's just where we stand. Having said that, I really appreciate the various embassies across the globe that are representing Denmark. They have been very, very helpful in posting information. So email addresses, phone numbers, and visa rules, and who to get in touch with to get help, which I think is very handy, I'm sure, for people who feel stuck and who really need help. Also, in terms of getting visa extensions and which council office they can go to, or consulate and things like that. I think that's super smart and helpful of the government as well. And I fully support that the government is making an effort to bring back people, maybe not directly on their planes, but in some way or the other. So, yeah, I'm sad that there's a war, but at the same time, I'm… I'm glad to hear that people are hopefully coming back safe.

Katie

The times are scary. You just want to be home. And just hope that everything's okay. I do also think, now normally I do generally side with social media being kind of evil. But I do think when there's kind of a disaster, or something like this suddenly happens, it is really great that, first of all, people can let everybody know they're okay, like, quite quickly, like immediately. You know, I think a missile went, and then, this friend from my book club posted online. She's like, “we're okay. Just so everyone knows, we're okay. We're scared. This is what's happening, but we're okay. And things will probably be okay.” And then again, being able to share that information. So people go to social media, and you're seeing who's okay, who's not, but also which embassy do I call? How do I move forward? How can I get a flight home? So you kind of see the power of social media and how it could have been a force for good had we used it properly from the beginning.

Kalpita

Absolutely. But this is no advertisement for social media for sure, because it is dangerous. This is one of the good uses of social media that I totally agree that we should have access to. And also just the fact that people have access to internet and they can communicate with people is very, very important as well, especially in a situation that they might find themselves in. Because being able to communicate with friends and family and different help authorities is also critical during this time. So, yay to the internet.

Katie

Yay, internet. I suppose speaking of war on a whim, we're finding that debates are growing about whether nuclear weapons could one day be stationed in Denmark. So several political parties say the idea cannot be ruled out as Europe rethinks its security after the rising tensions with Russia and then the craziness of the US. Which, honestly, when there's this many wars happening at once, can only be a good idea to be having this discussion and thinking about the future of, how do we keep Europe safe?

Kalpita

Yeah, I'm not in total favour of nuclear weapons or just being a nuclear power. But at the same time, I think the EU is being very, very smart, um, and firstly uniting under the same nuclear umbrella, which is what they're talking about right now. But at the same time, and they're doing a really good job of sharing information with the public and not fearmongering and creating the situation of, “oh, we are in a crisis, and now we really need to take some really big, dramatic decisions and steps.” Luckily, this is a proposal and only a discussion right now. But at the same time, I'm a bit biased if in the context of the… the nuclear power being stationed in Denmark. And that's me admittedly saying it can be in your backyard but not mine. Yeah, and we have spoken about this. We know that Sweden has a facility and France has one as well, and I think Germany has one as well, if I'm not mistaken. Um, and they are practically, all of them, our neighbors, so maybe they can house them, and we can just take some benefit out of it, and they can have all the wind energy from us. No problem.

Katie

But it's, I think, what I like is it's realistic, I think, to be having these conversations. I'd rather someone's having the conversation and, okay, maybe we do wind up with a nuclear missile. No one's happy about it. I'm sure nobody wants that in their country or their neighborhood. But at the same time, the world is so crazy, and the US definitely has some nuclear missiles. So I'm glad someone's talking about it. I'm glad there's no official plan. So it's not imminent, but I'm glad that somebody is talking about it somewhere, in case that's something we need to be thinking about.

Kalpita

Absolutely. And it is an important conversation to be had at the right time as well, because there is an imminent threat from Russia, from the US, and… and it is a catch-22 as well to be in the European Union and be one of the countries because you have an unreliable ally, and you can't really trust this ally, which means that you need to figure out other avenues to secure yourself and to make sure that you have the right tools and the right help in place if and when the need comes. So I think the EU is doing a good job with that.

Katie

Yeah, it's nice to be part of the EU. It's better that there's a load of us together than just kind of standing out on our own like, “oh, what's the crazy person gonna do now?”

Kalpita

Yeah, and also the UK supporting all of it is also very, very important, I think, because they do have some things that they're really, really good at, and that could really help the EU. And vice versa, I think the UK also feels supported by the EU, given that we're all part of NATO, and the UN is also getting involved, and things like that. So yeah, it sounds very serious, but it's not something that's going to suddenly pop up right away. But it's good that the conversations are being had, and there are no hard and fast decisions, but some kind of direction is being shown and taken.

Katie

Speaking of hard and fast decisions, I say, not understanding that the Danish Prime Minister could just decide there would be an election this month. The election is coming up on the 24th of March, and there are all kinds of new campaign trail proposals. But maybe before we get into that, we can talk a bit about how… I don't know if you are able to vote, Kalpita, but I'm not. I'm not a Danish citizen, so I can't vote in this upcoming election. And I definitely had a moment where I was like, “I can't vote. What's the point in learning any of these things?” And then I had a moment of like, “no, you're an adult, you're part of this country, you contribute to the society, you should at least know what people are talking about and what's on the agenda for this election.”

Kalpita

Absolutely. Um… I wish I could vote. I cannot. Um, but then again, I think irrespective of whether I can vote or not, it will be critical, and it will affect my life in some way or the other. Depending on who is going to be elected. Did you know that you had to… vote for a local candidate and not that, when you go for voting, that you vote for, like, a Mette, or a Lars, or Troels, or Alex… the four main candidates, but your local candidate? Which actually blew my mind.

Fionn

Did you know that the Last Week in Denmark newsletter is available in eight languages? Hey there, this is Fionn from the Last Week in Denmark podcast, and every week you guys are tuning in to hear me and my fellow co-hosts talk about the top news of the week in English. But let's be real. We're all internationals, so not only are you speaking English every day, you're probably also speaking a bit of Danish. But you've probably also got your own native language as well, like the multilingual master you are. So why not treat yourself to the luxury of being able to read Danish news each week in your own native language? So head on over to lastweekdk.substack.com. That's lastweekdk.substack.com. And sign up for our newsletter delivered to you every single Sunday.

Katie

Yeah, I suppose I had been looking out for posters of Mette, but I suppose she doesn't… She's not from Aarhus, so I'm not going to see her anywhere, am I?

Kalpita

Yeah, that's a good point. I haven't seen any posters of her, or Lars, or Troels, or Alex. No, but wait, I saw a post of Alex with him walking around with his posters. Have you seen any of his?

Katie

Probably. I don't know. I feel like I forget who the candidates are. They all start to look the same after a while once they put up all the posters.

Kalpita

I think he was very popular the last time, and he's also from Aarhus, isn't he?

Katie

Yes, so he's put up the posters. They don't even have the party name, which, like, I can't tell you what party he's from, but I'm obviously not his demographic. He wants people who can vote. But he's all over and he's got quite, they're quite… I don't want to say cool because they're political posters, but like, they look quite different from the normal, like, static smile, which is like, you know, kind of look like they're either happy or insane. Typical look to a political poster. They look a little bit more like, “I'm Mr. Business, I get things done.”

Kalpita

Yeah, I mean, it makes sense that his campaign is like that because he became popular with the youth the last time as well. He was very active on social media, and, um… and then he took a step back from social media for a little while as well and had some mental health issues and something… But now he's back, and I can see that he's… he's changed his social media strategy a little bit as well. So it makes sense that he goes big on the way he is portraying himself also on his posters. I saw some strange ones by Venstre as well, with someone… what's that called when someone's supporting another candidate, but you have absolutely no idea who this person who's supporting? It's like, “oh, my wife is a politician, why didn't you vote for her,” type of posters, which I found very funny.

Katie

We had a weirder one where someone has obviously, and I don't know who's the person running for election, but his posters weren't ready, so he took posters from an old candidate and wrote on the posters, "Thank you to whoever's in this poster. The new posters will arrive soon." So he was just, like, holding space on lampposts with these old posters. And I'm like, what… what kind of strategy is this?!

Kalpita

That is clever. He is blocking space.

Katie

In a way it's clever, and in another way it's stupid. I can't decide how I feel about it.

Kalpita

But do we have any campaigns that they're running? Party campaigns?

Katie

We do indeed. So we'll start with the Social Democrats. Not even going to try and say the Danish version of that, but I thought this was interesting. So we talked about it on our last call with Michael Magee. So the Social Democrats are promising a pesticide ban to protect drinking water. The environment minister says his party will push for a national ban on pesticides in groundwater areas after the election, regardless of which parties form the next government. That's very exciting. I feel like… I don't know if I just learned about this issue in our last podcast episode, or if the world, or Denmark, the world of Denmark only learned about it now, but it seemed like such a big deal when we had Michael on as a guest on the podcast of like, people are literally being poisoned, and they're like, “maybe we'll build this extremely expensive water plant,” instead of just stop using the pesticides that are poisoning people?

Kalpita

Exactly. I totally agree that maybe the most wise decision would be to not use pesticides. But at the same time, we also have to be aware that… and this was a conversation we had in the first episode of this season, actually, with Dragana and Fionn, where we spoke about, if we stopped using pesticides, that means we'll probably have to go ecological. And then there are many aspects to it. But some of them is food. I mean, it's going to just become more expensive. At the same time, are farmers up for it? And what kind of support they need to make sure that they switch from pesticides to ecologic? And then there are all kinds of other issues that will crop up with that. And like Michael said, it's also a very huge lobbying opportunity as well. So it really depends which lobby is really sharp and doing a good job with whatever their agenda is. So a bit complex, but I totally support the no pesticide thing. Also, I did watch some news reports where people were like, “well, we want clean water, so if that means that we have to pay extra money for it, then we just do that.” Because you do need clean water, and what other option do you have other than… if the government says, “well, you have to pay a little extra for it,” then you just pay a little extra for it.

Katie

Yeah, that's true. Sometimes it's… yeah, they're complicated problems, but usually it's, “if we pay a bit more money somewhere, it'll be fixed in some way.” And, but coming from the Social Democrats as well, they're proposing a slower rise in retirement age. So the party wants the pension age to continue increasing as life expectancy grows, but at half the current pace. So under the proposal, a 20-year-old today would retire at around 72-and-a-half, while someone aged 50 could expect retirement at about 70-and-a-half. Ugh, I want to retire now.

Kalpita

Yes, see, that's the thing.

Katie

I don't think that's enough. I don't have enough money. [Laughs]

Kalpita

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's one of the things, right? They are thinking about how to keep the economy surviving because people are living longer, but not everybody is able to continue in the workforce, and we are going to have a smaller younger generation. So, yeah, so we need old people to work. But at the same time, I really, really wonder and worry for laborers. It's a bit unfair on their part. If you are a labor worker, whether you're a VVS, or a bricklayer, or a baker, or whatever, you are already working so hard. Whether you're a 50-year-old, or a 40-year-old, or 30-year-old for that matter. You have back pain, you have something going on with your body that is not supporting you and is actually screaming that you need to take a break and do something else because this job is really taxing. I do not see how they will continue working to 70-, 72-years-old. It's a different story if you're in an, you know, office environment, and you're just sitting down and typing stuff on your computer. Then I would say increase it to being 80-years-old, because then what do you have to lose, right? And then focus on cognitive abilities instead. But I'm not really in a big favour of increasing that. No, I think it getting increased every few years slower than it is already is just like a pacifier, I think.

Katie

That's true. I also feel like there's so many, like you say, real-world implications that are not being considered. So like that, if you decide the bricklayer now needs to work an extra ten years, what support are they going to have? How much more is it going to cost in their healthcare? How much more is it going to cost them in terms of how their day-to-day life is and their day-to-day health? But even as well, when we talk about working in an office, well, I absolutely agree, it's definitely much easier as an older person. Just pretend you're typing, pretend you're on the phone. And there is a lot of ageism in the corporate world. So it is, there are points in your career, particularly when you get over the age of 50, where people often go through a long phase of unemployment because no one wants to hire them because they're too old or too experienced, I think, is typically the thing they go for. And then as well, with technology moving at the rate that it is, there is this idea that older people can't keep up with technology, which sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. But still at the same time, you have really valuable knowledge, really skilled people who are just getting discriminated against and can't get a job. So what is the government going to do? And they say, “you need to work til you're 70.” And it's like, “well, if I lose my job in my 50s, I'm not gonna get another one.” So where is that job going to come from? So, and then we still have the same problem as, I'm not paying taxes or money that… I'm getting my benefits. So then the money's coming from the government, but then we're kind of in the same problem, it's just coming from a different place.

Kalpita

I totally agree. I think there is a big gap between the job market employability and the policies that the government are making, or even considering for that matter, because there are so many, even newly graduates, who are still looking for jobs. There was a news story I read about Ukrainians who get refuge in Denmark, they get their residency, and part of their curriculum, for the lack of a better word, they get internships through the job center because they become part of the job center, of course. And then they get stuck in this internship loop, which they're not very happy about because none of these internships result into a job. And that's the same journey most internationals take as well. They become part of the job center through their respective commune, and they get opportunities which are mainly internships, and they're not paid opportunities at all. But there is a hope and a carrot given, saying, “oh, there will be something at the end of this,” but it never happens. So you're stuck in the loop of doing internships, but you never get an opportunity where you actually get paid for. And there's this concept of, “oh, you need to know how to be in a Danish work environment and learn the culture,” and all of that, which is fine, which is great in its own place. But at some point, that circle needs to end, and, you know, the bank balance needs to be shown because everybody wants to be a responsible citizen, do a job, and pay their taxes. But then if that liquidity of a job availability is not there, if you do not have a market where you get a job easily… I'm not saying it needs to be, “oh, I think of a job, and I get it.” Just something. People are at home for years and years having tried to get a job, and that has not worked for them. So I think that, that gap between the job market and job availability, compared to the policies the government are making, they most certainly need to do… look at, at the job market and… and other things before making these policies. So for me, that's a no vote.

Katie

Yeah, it does feel like a very simplistic view of what is actually quite a complex problem where the government is… is failing, I think. Um, but now for the sensationalist of the group. The Nationalist Conservatives have set an ultimatum on immigration before the election. So they're saying the party will only support a right-wing government if it commits to policies that ensure more Muslims leave the country than arrive during the parliamentary term. The proposal targets immigration from Middle East and North African countries and would be monitored throughout the term. Other parties on the right support stricter immigration rules but have not backed the ultimatum. Maybe because it's crazy!

Kalpita

Yeah, there was this news last week as well about some student's last name and how Danish this person can be. But then again, I think it's a petty appeal, um, just to keep the immigration conversation alive. But at the same time, it makes no sense to target a certain religious group at the end I mean… just straight off the bat, it's a big no for me. It’s… it has no logic, it has no common sense to it. Just rejecting people because you can and because you want to keep the… the conversation alive on immigration, which is very much biased towards one section of society? No thank you.

Katie

Yeah, we'll move swiftly along. It doesn't deserve our attention. So the Liberals are proposing billions to strengthen the public schools. The party wants to invest five billion Danish kroner to improve both learning and wellbeing for students, including more lessons with two adults present in the classroom and stronger support for inclusion. Most of the funding would be going to hiring more teachers and pedagogues, with the plan gradually introduced between 2027 and 2030. And we've seen, as we slightly step into our third topic, this proposal comes as education becomes a key issue in the election campaign.

Kalpita

Listen, if there's money being put into anything, it means there's money being taken away from something, right? Which also… we've spoken about this as well, the investment into the education system, whether public or colleges. If the investment is coming from somewhere else, how is this money going to be used, and to make what better? Is it the infrastructure? Are they hiring more teachers? Because one of the things I can tell you during this big phase of inclusion that came, even before COVID, was basically trying to include students from special needs, from all kinds of different corners of childhood or adolescent life. But then at the same time, I can see that… there was a news, I think there's another news story, where people are getting special requirements that are being adhered to, which is totally, totally ridiculous. I think every student who has special needs, say you have, you are a slow learner or you have dyslexia, and you get included in a class with everyone who's very much normal, I guess, for a lack of better word, who are just on things, and then you get paired with them. It's most certainly something that's trying to benefit you and help you. But then having a student sit with his or her headphones during the class is a bit of a stretch for inclusion for me.

Katie

I see that. I think it's hard to find the line because, you know, I can see from my friends, you know, typically we're in our 30s somewhere, and I can really see how having a negative experience or needing to be taught differently in school has really affected them. So let's say dyslexia. So I know a few people who are dyslexic, and they almost still define themselves that way and kind of use that as a kind of reason to think that they're stupid as opposed to they learn differently, or they need to be taught a different way? And I think even when we go back to, like, my mother's generation, like there was this kind of, well, “we'll just yell at them until they do it the way that they're supposed to.” So I do think the world has kind of come around to, “not everyone learns the same way; people need different help to learn when they have different brains.” But I agree with you, where's the line? Because I suppose there's been this rise of special agreements or special requirements, as you say, where in public schools, teachers are having to cope with students who are allowed to leave class, avoid presentations, use their headphones during class, or take breaks during the lessons. And I do… I do have to wonder as well, in the sense that, okay, I do like the idea that children are… children or students, depending what age they are, have a way that they can work in school that's good for them. But at the same time, one of the purposes of school, other than getting an education and being able to function in society, is to get a job. And if you are in the middle of a meeting, you cannot put your headphones in. You cannot just decide to leave the room when you're not feeling up to it. So I do wonder, where is the line where it comes to you're helping them learn how to be in society versus you're coddling them. And how are they ever going to function in the real world if they're given all of these allowances to behave in these ways in what… what should be kind of a structured environment that teaches them how to go out and be an adult?

Kalpita

Yeah, I see your point. I also think that for me, if I had to draw a line, I would draw the line at common sense and logic. I mean, of course, if a student is expected to sit with his headphones in the classroom, then this person's not listening to the teacher. And you never know what's going on in those headphones. There's music, there's a podcast, there's totally something else that you actually cannot tell. But at the same time, it makes me wonder, what is it that the private schools are doing different from the public schools? Because people going to public schools is also reducing now. So what is it that they can learn from the private sector education and bring to the public sector education? Is it highly educated teachers? Is it different course material curriculum? What is it that's working out for them?

Katie

That's true. And I think as well, we have to kind of, looking at, so that's kind of one of the news stories this week is a new analysis that shows that 26% of students in public schools are now receiving education outside of that school. So they're needing to supplement their education. And it does make you wonder about the students who are coming from families that can't afford to supplement that education. Are they getting left behind because the public school infrastructure just isn't working? And then we come back to the Liberals putting five billion, I think was the number? Into the education sector, and you're like, I hope it helps, but maybe they need more.

Kalpita

Yeah, and that is a lot of money. I remember having a conversation with someone who was much older than I was and has been in… is Danish. I raised a point that if you are well-to-do and you have the resources, then your children are also well-to-do and have the resources, especially when they're going to the education system. They know how to, where to, all those kinds of things because they have access to resources. And I was corrected humbly, and I was told that the Danish education system actually is proud to provide opportunity to students irrespective of their background. And that's where I think it is… it is cracking now, the education system, because people with more money are going to private schools, and they are flourishing compared to those going to public schools. So where is the opportunity being created for, irrespective of where you come from, you have an equal opportunity to pursue what you actually want to be, and it's purely based on the effort you put in your studies, and that's basically your marks or your grades.

Katie

So, we're a vote “yes” for the investing lots and lots of money into education. If we could vote.

Kalpita

Yeah… It's a 50/50 for me. I would like to know some concrete plans of this five billion because those five billion are coming from somewhere else, so.

Katie

Yes. If that's coming from whatever's going to stop the pesticides, then we might have a problem to figure out, where does the money need to go? Clean drinking water, education are both pretty important.

Kalpita

Yeah, yeah. Or healthcare for that matter.

Katie

Yeah. Well, will we leave it there then at the podcast on that wonderful note to finish off on? It's been lovely talking to you, Kalpita.

Kalpita

And as always, you, Katie. Thank you.

Katie

Thanks, everyone, for listening. Talk to you soon.

Head Shot

LWID

Host
Head Shot

Kalpita Bhosale

Guest
Head Shot

Katie Burns

Guest