Roots of Resilience: Growing Up Goodman

The first episode of the Goodman Family Oral History Podcast explores the roots and upbringing of the family patriarch, Thomas Jerome Goodman. The conversation, led by his daughter, Tonya, delves into his childhood in West Norfolk, Virginia, his relationship with his parents, and the values instilled in him. He reflects on his mother's strict but fair parenting style, his father's career as a merchant seaman, and the hardworking lifestyle they maintained. The episode also highlights family traditions, memories of growing up without modern conveniences, and the influence of various relatives, such as Uncle Willie, on his upbringing. Thomas shares personal anecdotes about chores, school, and early work experiences, painting a vivid picture of his early years and the strong family bonds that shaped him. The episode sets the foundation for a deeper exploration of family history in future installments.

Stories of Strength, Love, and Legacy – The Goodman Way

Transcript

Goodman Family Oral History 1

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(0:14 - 1:12)

Hello. Welcome to the Goodman Family Oral History Podcast. Today, we're going to start exploring the history of the Goodman family patriarch, my father, a man of God, Thomas Jerome Goodman.

Hi, Daddy. How are you doing this evening? I'm doing fine. How are you, Miss Tanya? I'm doing all right myself.

I thought that we would just start from the beginning. Can you tell us where and when you were born? I was born October 22nd, 1948, in West Norfolk, Virginia, which is at the time was a part of Norfolk County. And eventually, Norfolk County was annexed into the city of Portsmouth.

I could not tell you the exact year. I'd have to look that up. But anyway, it's just a little country town.

(1:13 - 5:55)

I thought we could also talk about just from the beginning, just a little bit about Grandma and Granddaddy. I obviously have an experience with them, but yours was different. When Tommy and I on the scene, they were essentially retired.

So what was Grandma like as a mom? Was she strict? And I know she did for a while. Did she work outside of the house? Yeah. Strict to the point where she would... Yeah.

I mean, as long as you did what she said, you were all right. She wasn't overly barren. You know what I'm saying? But if you didn't do what you were supposed to do or what she had allowed you, and I'll give you a reference.

For instance, like we would get off, Doug and I, we were young boys then, young teenagers. Doug was and I might not have been a teenager. But our job in the afternoon was to... We heated by wood and coal, and we had a shed which contained the wood and the coal.

And each afternoon in the winter, Doug and my job to make sure that on the back porch that we had enough wood and coal to carry us through the night. So that means we could come in and we could go play in the neighborhood. Sports was our thing, football in the winter, baseball and basketball, the three major sports that we did that we knew about and were used to.

But when we come in, when we come after that, it gets dark pretty quick in winter. And when we come back to the house, hey, our job was before we even come in the house to make sure that that wood and coal was on the back porch. The food has been cooked and all that, but then you eat after that's done.

So the rules were pretty straightforward. You know what I'm talking about? It wasn't running water. And so you didn't have bathrooms in the house.

We didn't. I think there was a few people in town that had indoor bathrooms, but we weren't one of them. So, but those are, yeah.

Like I said, as long as you knew the rules and took care of things, you're fine. But when you don't do that, then yeah, things got, you know, you had to answer. She didn't mind beating booty.

And the reason I say that is because I didn't mention Daddy. You know, he really didn't do it with me and Doug. But first of all, he was only there on short periods because he was a merchant senior, you know.

So the truth of the matter is that, you know, she was used to running the house. And even when he was there for furloughs and stuff like that, you know, that's kind of, you know, you, I will say this and I know that you and Ruth being women, you might not like the way I say it, but he would allow her to just run the place. And I say that he would allow her, but you'd know in her that it was, you know, he did that just so it would have peace.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, but because she was used to, hey, handling certain things. And I think that, you know, that, hey, some of those things, you know, some, some she didn't mind, but there were some things that she didn't want to give up. I don't think, you know, she wanted to feel like she was still in charge, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Did she, I know she, she did at one point, because I remember her telling me a story about it. Did she work outside of the house? I know most of her job was homemaking, but she did.

(5:55 - 7:40)

She did work outside the house. Yeah. She worked outside of the house.

She worked at school, cafeteria. And she also did housework that she had done, you know, for white families, you know, will to do. She's done that, that my grandmother did that also.

She did not, I've never known her to work at the school, but I knew she worked for this one white family and it was one or two days a week, you know, and, you know, he was a doctor and, you know what, his name escapes me right now, but I knew that name all during my formative years as a child, I mean, and cause they had one son and she was more like a nanny to him, just, you know, is the weekend. And, and, you know, that was, I, I believe I never heard her say this, but, you know, just talking, I believe that was like a extended family to her, you know, and they seem to treat her well, you know, but it was, that was the sign of the times, you know what I'm saying? That in that, in that area seemed like all the better jobs were, were, were manned and worked by whites, you know? And so, and even today, you know, they said a white middle-class person income is, and savings is 40% higher than, than, than people of color, than, than, than Blacks for sure. I could get into that, but I won't.

(7:40 - 9:01)

So you mentioned grandma, that grandma worked for the schools maybe as well. So I know when I was a baby, cause there are a couple of pictures of grandma Flossie living with you. So did she live with you for a long time? I think what was- She always did, because before they, before mom and dad had moved to Cavalier Manor, and I had already gone to school, I left for school by that time, and then went in the army to stay right out of there.

She, as far as I, she's always been in the house, because first of all, the house in West Norfolk did not belong to my mom and dad, you know, it actually belonged to my great-grandfather, my grandma Flossie's daddy, Wilton. And I remember him when I was, when I was a small thing, a tiny thing, I remember him, his bedroom, and he was, he passed. I remember, I remember him was sick to the bed, and next day, I, you know, to be honest, I don't remember the funeral or anything, but I remember that he lived there, and then he didn't, cause he was dead.

(9:02 - 10:03)

And so, is the house passed to grandma, my grandma? Well, the house could have been, because it was, it was because the house, I don't know this, I'm just sharing this with you, but you had Uncle Willie, okay, do you remember him? No. Okay, well, Uncle Willie, he- You know what, I do, I do, I actually, I do, yeah. That's, yeah, because when we used to go home, we'd go by this sometimes, but he, he had his own place, that was, I'm talking about my grandmother's sister and brother, brothers, okay, you had Aunt Emily.

Yes. Okay, Aunt Emily, okay, she, they had their own house, you had, you know, Uncle Richard Lee, and Uncle Richard Lee, you probably don't remember, you don't know him. I don't remember that name.

(10:03 - 11:19)

But, yeah, but he was, he lived in Cavalier Manor, he and Aunt Lucille, they- Yeah, I remember Aunt Lucille. Huh? Aunt Lucille and Uncle Richard Lee were husband and wife, you know, and then finally, you know, they had their struggles, you know what I'm saying, and matter of fact, he actually lived with us for a short time, you know, when he and Aunt Lucille had split up, you know, and I think that they were still living in West Norfolk at the time before they got to place it in Cavalier Manor on Bowl Avenue, and, but anyway, those were the, my great granddaddy, Will Turner, then you had, hey, Uncle Richard Lee, Uncle Willie, Aunt Lucille, Uncle James Henry, all of them were brothers and sisters. And actually, you probably have been by, he didn't live long after you were born, Uncle James Henry's house, he was probably the most affluent, well-to-do one of the group, you know what I'm saying, he had a really nice place.

(11:19 - 12:26)

Actually, the bedroom suit that you and Rob have here, that's a bedroom suit from Uncle James Henry's house. We traded a dining room set, mama's dining room set, for that bedroom set, and during the day, that was our dollar set. He was, like I said, he was the most affluent, he was well-to-do financially.

He and Aunt Helen never could have, never did have children, and I know they wanted them, but I don't know why it didn't happen. So they kind of adopted all of us, you know what I'm saying, and wants to come by and, you know, hang out, spend a night or something like that. Because, you know, we were their children, the best kind of children, the ones you could send home.

(12:30 - 12:56)

Yeah, so, oh girl, I was, hey, I'm just telling you all this stuff, I don't even remember what the question was. I was asking about grandma, and then was asking about how, you know, how the house came to her, of, you know, all of the siblings. Because everybody else had, and our grandmama was never married, was, you know what I'm saying? I didn't know that.

(12:57 - 14:18)

I said, I didn't know that. Yeah, and they, and the rest of her siblings all were married and had places, you know what I'm saying? So it just was natural, that's the way. Yeah, and the closest, I mean, I loved them all, you know, but actually, the closest, I believe, to me, I felt, was Uncle Willie, you know what I'm saying? Of course, Aunt Emily would be a close second, you know, but Uncle Willie was my number one, you know, because actually, he took me under his wing as a, more or less, hey, because daddy wasn't around, he was sailing, yeah.

So, I mean, when it was, you know, when I had my school plays, you know, he would show up, you know, he'd bring mama to the, of course, she drove anywhere she wanted to go, but a lot of times, she didn't want to drive at night. Plus, she never had a driver's license, but she drove everywhere she went, everywhere she wanted to go. You didn't know that.

(14:21 - 14:57)

Yeah, and never attempted to get her, you know, yes. Yeah, I mean, and Uncle Willie, he made sure that when it was time, our baseball team, he was like the manager, you know what I'm saying? He made, hey, his truck, you know, he had one of those, not a pickup truck, he had a truck where he hauled wood and ice and stuff like that, because that was his business. That's a story for another time, I think.

(14:57 - 19:12)

No, got a little bit of time, huh? But anyway, he, you know, he'd let me, on the summers, days I wanted to work, he'd let me work on the truck, you know, it'd be Uncle Willie, his partner that worked with him called Otis Lee, and he wasn't from West Norfolk, he was from a little town, Twin Pines, which is maybe about, shoot, seven or eight miles, you know, away, maybe 10, but he, you know, he'd get the truck, get me in the morning, me and him, head on up to Twin Pines, pick up Otis Lee. Sometimes Otis Lee would get a ride down there, but most of the time, you know, Uncle Willie would go get him, and I'd be sitting in the middle, and they'd be laughing and, you know, trying to call them to entertain me, telling lies, just having a good time, right? And I mean, they would keep you laughing all day long, all day long, but I enjoyed that, I enjoyed it. He gave me, always gave me a chance to make a little money, taught me how to work, you know what I'm saying? But he would always make sure that I'd keep some little cash in my pocket, yeah.

And so when you do that, was it just you, or did Uncle Doug work as well? Doug had a job, Doug's five years older than me, you know, and I don't know if he ever did that, but he probably did, he probably went through that cycle too, but Doug, you know, but then not only me, but then later on, he got Thad involved, because he had this wood yard up in another part of the area over there, Pewsville, it's named, and he had a wood yard, and he had this car hooked up with the tire, with the tires off the back or whatever, yeah, the back, because the back was the one to turn, and it had this big old belt, and it was hooked up to a saw, big old saw, I mean, that saw was about a three, three, about three feet bigger in diameter, and they used to run, cut them big logs, he would get those logs from this place, the mill called Planters, and he would take it up there to the yard, you know, they would cut, evidently, it costs more, I'm sure it did, for them to give you the perfect cut, you know, log, so they would take it up there to Pewsville, and he'd cut them up that way, so you sometimes we see, we get those, we see those logs down there at the plant, and we'd see them go on the truck, then we'd get them out to Pewsville, and we would get them off the truck, then when we get ready to cut, we'd have to get them to the saw, and then we get, once we got them down to the perfect size and stuff like that, hey, we, we either gonna put them in a pile, a lot of times, that's what we do, there in the woodyard, and then when we get ready to take a load or something, we had to load them on the truck, so you could see that same diagonal branch of tree about five or six times, really, and you could remember sometimes the ones that, you know, that had distinguishing marks, you could remember why you saw that tree on a planter's, when you took it out of the truck, you could remember the, you could remember the tree's journey from planters to the yard, to the saw, back on the truck, to a person's yard, who wanted, who was buying the wood, but it was, it was fun. And that's great, so we have entrepreneurship in our family, so that was his business, so he worked. That was his business, yeah, in the summertime, because during that time, a lot of people had what they call an ice box.

(19:13 - 19:29)

Yeah. Looked like, it looked like a refrigerator. Yeah.

But you put a block of ice in there, and, and it would keep the food cool and stuff like that. Grandma always called the refrigerator the ice box. Ice box, that's right, that's right, that's why.

(19:30 - 20:05)

And so, what was granddaddy like? Because you already mentioned that, you know, again, by the time Tommy and I came around, and we were hanging out, he was mostly retired. He did work some, but he was not on the ships anymore. No, he used to work, he used to work at the, during that time, I think he was doing janitor at the church, wasn't he, Rue? So, but, you know, daddy, like I said, he, he rode the, he rode the seas, and what, and your, and your grandfather, he, he couldn't read or write.

(20:05 - 24:45)

And that, yeah. Yeah, and I remember, so he come from a little country town, more country than West Norfolk, you know, they, and they, you know, like, and West Norfolk, actually, that community, those houses were like you have seen on history channels, where that they would have, like the plantations, they would have these little shanty houses and stuff like that. That's what those, that's what those houses were.

All of those that you have seen in West Norfolk, they have either been, some of them, they were remodeled, but most of them were just three rooms, a little living room, a bedroom, and a kitchen, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, and some of them might have, they might have put a little, made it two bedrooms, but they were all small, very small. And, and they used to call, what they used to call it was Timber's Row. And I don't know why they called it that, but all of those little houses at one time were the same, you know what I'm saying? The ones, the house, like ours was a two-story house, Uncle James Henry, I mean James Lewis, that's Gloria, and Tyrone and Judah's father, you know, and Cousin Pi, the mother, that house.

So, but I'm just saying, but all of those houses, hey, they must have one time, they probably all looked alike, until, you know, I guess my grandfather, great-grandfather must tore his down and built it, you know, over, because it was a little different. Yeah, but Daddy, like I said, he could never read or write. And I remember as a little kid, and I remember he come home, he wanted this job on the boat, you know what I'm saying? Because I don't know what he was doing before this, but he wanted, this was a promotion, it was a step up, it was more money, you know what I'm saying? So, I don't know if they just had him like cleaning or something like that, or cooking, whatever, but he wanted this job, and the job they call it was a fireman water tender.

And what that was, it was like a guy who tinned the boilers, you know, with the heat and steam for the pistons and stuff like that, and he couldn't read. But this captain that was on the boat liked him, you know, he favored him as far as he liked his work at it, right? So, I remember that, I remember these big books, to me they were big, like I said, I was a small guy, and big books, and was sitting at the table, and I remember Mom used to read, you know, she would read the book to him, you know, and he was set, they were set side by side, so he could see the pictures and stuff too, when, you know, the illustrations, and she would read the book questions and stuff like that, and then she would question him on the stuff she had read, you know what I'm saying? And that's the way he learned, he was able to take the test, and because the captain liked him, he let him take the test orally, he didn't have to write anything down, because that would have been a deal breaker, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but all of the time, all my life, like I said, I known him, that's what he did, he'd go, and I remember he used to come home, and you know, he'd have a couple of weeks, he'd have a couple of months or something like that, you know, and he, you know, before he'd go on another ship, he actually used to ride, he used to sail naval ships also, a civilian, they used to have civilian crews, and he's doing the Vietnamese War, they used to sail, you know, supplies and stuff over for the troops and stuff like that, but that's what he's done the whole time, except that time that went after he retired, I know he was doing some custodial work for the church. Yeah, and I don't remember, I don't remember that, but I know that he had a job, I just remember that he would always build things, I remember one summer when I was there, he had some of his friends come over and they built a doghouse, they had rabbits for a while, why, I don't know, and built like a rabbit pen.

(24:46 - 24:59)

I don't know why they had those rabbits either. But I guess he gave, just gave them something to do, you know what I'm saying, I've never, I don't, I've never seen him eat one. No.

(25:00 - 29:59)

You know, I've never seen him have a, you know, any wild game, anything in the house, everybody talked about how good rabbits used to be. Yeah, but no, they were just pets on the side of the house. Yeah.

And then they also had their garden that they tended. Yeah, he liked to keep busy, that's one thing, he definitely did that. Yeah.

And then you had my brother, Doug, Doug was, he always liked to take things apart, but he didn't care that much about putting it back together, you know what I'm saying, I remember he had a brand new bike once, and he, you know, I mean, and it was a good bike, expensive bike, Swin, and hey, when he got it, he took it apart. And I remember daddy raising, raising, saying, oh, about that bike, about that bike, I spent all this money, you know what I'm saying, I had all them parts out there, you know, but he always liked to tinkle with stuff like that, you know, cards and stuff like, yeah. Yeah, he was, I just remember him being a jack of all trades, that he would paint, and he, you know, and I wish, especially now that I've gotten into figuring out how to grow things, that he was really good at I remember he would plant trees, and always comment about what you needed to do to help something to grow, and I never paid attention.

Who was that? Uncle Doug. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, he knew stuff, he knew, I remember that he had this 56 Ford car, those back then, that, that was a famous, that was a favorite, one of the, one of the better looking cars, you know what I'm saying, he went to, he had built this one, and it had a automatic, I mean, a standard transmission, you know, where you had to shift the gears to get, and I mean, he had this, what it was at the time, one of the things, it was a Hurst shifter, was like a, the handle was like a T, and, but it was a pretty car, it was a white and red, and he, and he left it with me, he was, this wasn't even before he started drinking a lot, he, he was married to, to Lydia, and, and they went to Baltimore, but he didn't drive, I don't know how they went, I don't know they went bus, or what, but anyway, they went to Baltimore, left the daggone car with me, and I'm out there trying to show off, and out there on Military Highway, you know, they had this club out there, Tiffany's, and, what was the other one, Swing In, there was two clubs, they were pretty close together right there, and I'm out there showing off, because, you know, he like, we really wasn't doing the racing, but we were racing, but it was a short stretch, and to the light, and I hit this thing, hit the gear, and daggone, the transmission locked up, you know what I'm saying, I don't even know how I got it back to, down to his house, Doug come back, and his car was messed up, man, you know, he blew a fuse there, you know, but, but he, he didn't have to leave it with me, but he did, and, but he would always, whatever he had, he would share it with me, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was your relationship like, was like with him, because you were, like you said, you were five years apart, did you, were you one of those kids that followed him around, and looked up to him, or was, did you? Well, I, you know what, I used to, I looked up to him, and, but I didn't follow him around, because, you know, his crowd was, you know what I'm saying, when he, when he was with his crowd, they weren't, they weren't, you know, he'd get stuck sometimes, when mama would tell him to watch your brother, or something like that, but other than that, but when he got with his boys, and stuff like that, and he would always make sure he, like, this is my little brother, you know what I'm saying, something like that, but he, but I didn't hang with him, you know what I'm saying, but, but, you know, but if I needed him, I remember that one time, was after the football game, in this place named Moseburg, which you've heard of before, Moseburg, and, and, and me and William Anderson, because we were, we were tripping over this, on this same girl, and we got in a fight up there, but we had been planning the fight, you know, we knew that we were going to hook up, and, you know, so I said, we got it going on, in, in, in, in, in, up there at Moseburg, because what I had done, I went on the school, on their bus, the people from Charleston, and I went on their bus, and to talk to the girl, but I had to get, I had to.