S1EAprSpecial1 SHOW NOTES ( listen (Wed Apr 10 2024 and thereafter) at:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2210487/14864323-christitutionalist-politics-s1eaprspecial1-back-all-1st-responders-not-just-the-blue )...
ChristiTutionalist Politics (S1EAprSpecial1) "Back All 1st Responders, Not Just 'The Blue'"
As a Fire Chief, Clive Savacool (joining the Show today) led the City of South Lake Tahoe CA (remember, Tahoe spans both CA and NV territory) and his team of Emergency Responders through a region-wide evacuation due to Wildfire. We discuss that and his "Exposure Tracker" and "LogRx" start-ups. Life, on the edge of Death, and more.
See Buzzsprout podcasts Transcript of Episode for related addl info
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(S1EAprSpecial1 Audio: 33m 16s, Wed Apr 10 2024)

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[ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast begin Show intro]

Welcome to ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast aka CTP in association with TheLibertyBeacon.com and I am your host Joseph M Lenard and that's L E N A R D CTP is your no muss no fuss just me you And occasional guest type podcast as Graham Norton would say let's get on with the show

[ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast - Segment 1]

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): All righty folks welcome to another midweek mid month special drop of ChristiTutionalist politics as Most you know I am the author of terror strikes coming soon to a city near you a Christian book But obviously not your normal fluffy kind of traditional Christian book when the main subject matter deals with terrorism But a Christian book nonetheless and it is in part dedicated to first responders. So We're gonna bring somebody on who's very familiar with first responder issues Please welcome to the show and I'm not the first joke for those of you to remember The old artist Rico Swah they to call him Clive Swah they cool, but it's so the cool S A V A C O O L Welcome to the show Clive Thank you. Thank you for having me appreciate you coming on. Give us your general background. Let's start there

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Um, so ADHD kid never could sit still and so right at a high school as looking for something that would Chain beat, you know grab my attention. I didn't do great in school because I could pay attention, but became a firefighter because I figured something new every day and I enjoyed being athletic and then through just The way my career progressed in the busy department in San Francisco I kind of got the inch entrepreneur bug and and the founding two different startups and So my career kind of excelled in both aspects. I became a fire chief up at South Lake Tahoe and in Garden Valley Fire District And then I now CEO of my startup logarx

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): So you started off in California. Are you in California again now? I am I've actually lived in California my whole life Okay, well did the is Tahoe is both Nevada and right California, right? Yeah, I was in a part in Nevada at one time and Wow, man those roads are narrow and in the winter that snow you got nowhere to put it It's stacked taller than the houses. I bet that's a challenge in the winter getting through there

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Oh, man in 2021 we shut down 50 and 80 and nobody could get out of Tahoe during It was like Christmas week or right before Christmas something like that. No right after Christmas in 2021 We actually had to shut down all the highways be orders trapped. Oh boy

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): crazy Did they have a little bit of a warning to stock up on things or a

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Little bit, but you know human nature, especially in America We think somebody else will fix it for us and so we ended up opening up a warming shelter at a rec center And so we did everything we could but one of the challenges not to dive too deep is they shut down interstate 81st so there's two ways from Nevada to California How we 80 and how we 50 so they shut down 80 so everyone in Reno decided they're gonna go through Tahoe to get back to the Bay Area San Francisco And so everybody came through south a Tahoe and then they shut down 50 And so we had no generation miles and miles and miles and miles of cars just stopped for like 10 hours Um, it and in fact it ended up being overnight and it was it was crazy. Yeah, we opened up our emergency operation center

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Yeah, so it wasn't so much the Tahoe people who know how to deal with it It was others that landed up trap there

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, and it was literally the day after Christmas that it started and so people were leaving from holiday travel And they just all got stuck in south leg Tahoe

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Quite the adventure. Wow Now you were a fire chief there for a while you said how long were you there and fired?

CLIVE SAVACOOL: I was a fire chief at south leg Tahoe for two years got them through the pandemic the wildfires And and so on and then before that as a fire chief at garden valley fire districts, um, which is pretty close to south leg Tahoe

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Yeah, but as our four years You mentioned wildfires. That's a major concern of mine Because we're not managing our land like we used to there's no fire breaks anymore We're not clearing brush like we used to and people are amazed that we're burning more acreage Uh, it just Is unfathomable to me that you don't take care of things and you're surprised that it goes to pot

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, that and then with the different different climate We're having drier fuels warmer summers and then higher winds and so it's Everything is going towards bigger wildfires than going away from it. So it's kind of a recipe for the perfect wild firestorm Um, which is why nobody can get fire insurance in california right now

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): All right before we get to your startup. I saw in your profile. I've got it printed out here He also has a passion for motorcycle racing And one in american federation a motorcyclist championship in 2019 He now helps cope and monitor up and coming racers I I have an old jigsaw the zuckey jigsaw 600, but uh racing, uh, no thanks Uh, although I did have that bike up to 116 out of three way launch don't recommend it very dumb very stupid, but I did it Uh, tell us a little bit about your again kind of you go back to your ADHD is kind of an adrenaline junkie streak

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, for me. I think it was the competition and doing something different and the challenge Um, I was raised by my uncle who raced motorcycles. He raised cars and he was done by the time I came around but Um, he got me into cart racing He said, you know, if you save up the money to buy a racing car, I'll take you to the track And so I I mowed lawns for two years saving up 1500 dollars. You have my first go-kart in the early 90s Racing go-kart and uh, so he took me on race several years won a championship racing carts Um And then once I became an adult and could afford I got a race car and then progressed to where I was racing formula mazes Which is pretty high level and did well there Um, but it was just so expensive and I ended up getting a motorcycle when I was like 26 Just because I seemed like a good idea at the time And of course my brains like well, let's take this to the racetrack And so I went to the racetrack because like man, this is more fun and cheaper and more my crowd And so I gave up car racing and gotten to motorcycles and uh, it's I tell my wife. It's my meditation You know, that's my my time to go and just get everything out of my head go and enjoy my friends Um, not that my wife is my my best friend, but I go to the track to just relax

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Careful. You get yourself a trouble there. Yeah

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, well, I gave up motorcycles three years ago for after bad rec and so she wasn't too happy when I got another motorcycle last year but

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): But good. Anyway, you're riding but not racing

CLIVE SAVACOOL: I did one race last summer and kind of decided you know what I'm just not into like I used to so now I now I just go to the track to ride and coach and enjoy myself

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Uh-huh and I can kind of understand that my My former father-in-law did drag the racing not addressing but up them can never pass on the bad joke So yeah, that expensive dangerous hobby the family wasn't too keen on him doing that Uh, not only the expense, but indeed the danger. I mean those Whoo those things light up in a hurry. So but I can get the uh The feel for like I said to be on a motorcycle with a hundred miles an hour is Quite a feeling

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, and it's strange. It's kind of one of those things where you you get used to it you get used to the speed your brain kind of um Processes things at that greater speed and so you don't feel like you're like fast is like a sport You know, you're just focused on my brake marker my turn and marker in my body position um Until something goes wrong And then all of a sudden it comes realization like holy cow. I'm gonna go off the track. I'm going 150 Slow down as fast as I can once I get to the dirt just use the rear brake if I have to you low side and just tumble So I think it's one of those things where until something goes wrong your your

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): The speed doesn't always comprehend. Yeah. Yeah, I also had cousins while younger that were in the motocross. So Well familiar with the motorcycle racing, but back to the first responders uh Do you have I don't want to get too deep or too dark or do you have uh a time in your career where You were in a place that You felt like that might come all to an end for you let alone those you're there trying to save

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Um, you mean a situation where I thought it might get killed. Yes Yeah for sure and oftentimes and probably a lot of cops firefighters and soldiers could probably um see the similarity is Usually it's afterwards usually to write afterwards. You know like wow. I didn't think about how close that was you were

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): caught up in the moment to training and adrenaline Is go. Yeah

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Well, and there's a there's a weird mental process that I think first responders and soldiers have where you go into a situation You assess it You determine what needs to be done. You look at what resources you have and then you like, okay. Here's the plan. Let's execute and Your brain is just do this if your variable comes your way you adjust you come up with another plan and you just go with it And so I think the situations I've been in where I thought wow this this is pretty hairy Your brain just reassesses. You know, okay do this and so it's almost like you're not I don't want to say not You don't have like an emotional state You're more just here's the mission. Let's knock it out. And that's why once that stops your brain is like wow That's that's a little sketchy. Um I do remember one particular apartment fire years ago as a captain um It's a downstairs a garden style apartment, which is basically where the door is outside. It's not the center hallway We went inside is fully involved and my firefighter said it was too hot. So he got behind me I took the nozzle and we're pushing the fire and It's 125 gallon a minute with a nozzle And the fire just wasn't getting knocked down It's on my brain because I've been in countless fires at that point. It's like some things not right There's something not right. This fire should be going out And so I said back out back out. So we get out the front door. I took a look at the structure I asked the incident commander. Hey is there anything going on the structure and we and He said no no So we went back inside and come to find out what happened was there was a A divider in this apartment where we were pushing the fire and it was coming around on top of us And so I just had this feeling like you're your my brain is saying this isn't the way the fire should be behaving with what we're doing Right And so that's the only time I can remember where I was like Something's not right. I can't figure out what it is. We need to get out right now

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): right because the Saving property is one thing but the first and foremost is to protect life. Yeah, and honestly that was like

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Six months after two guys in my station got killed in the house fire and so that was fresh in my brain towards like Okay, they were they knew what they're doing. They died. So I started second guessing also Am I seeing everything and so that that definitely sent me back in confidence

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): All right, but that was kind of one of those moments. Yeah, because no matter how much you train you can't Know until any given situation is going to be different Right and that's right one of the main reasons why I wanted to have you on Dedicating my book to first responders people think obviously Police have their lives on the line, but I don't think they realize how often Anytime that emk even goes out They don't know what situation they're getting into either and their life could even be at risk

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, yeah, it's in fact sometimes Good luck reinforces bad habits. And so a lot of times you'll go into a situation so many times That you feel like okay. I haven't gotten hurt in the past. So I'm gonna be fine this time Um, I I actually had some challenges when I was a south lake Tahoe with one of my battalion chiefs Um because he would make decisions that That we're gonna get the guys hurt and I tell him like hey Doing this is unsafe and he say well, nothing happened. It's like well in hindsight It's easy to say I drove to la without wearing a seatbelt and I never got hurt Well, if you got in the crash, you would die. So um kind of that That learned behavior of good luck can can be to a detriment and so that's why it's important for first responders always be on top of their training

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Yeah, and most uh cops firefighters emps are younger people And You're more in shape at that age and able to do things and also though at that age We still haven't learned that we're not invincible thing yet right So tell us about your startups exposure tracker and log our ex

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, so exposure tracker was uh kind of my First real jump in to being an entrepreneur. I consulted first startup before that which actually is what kind of gave me the bug to do it myself um and so Being just a firefighter and that's my only background. I I didn't really know So what I was doing to be honest, I just had some ideas and so fortunately I found a co-founder And we got some developers to help us build it But I had had some challenges with exposures myself as a firefighter and actually got some permanent lung damage from being a firefighter And so I Wanted to okay. How can I? Prevent this from happening to others. What can I do to improve the industry as a whole And some other programs that come up with kind of tracking exposures But they just executed horribly like it was just never ever adopted

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): So let's define exposure first for everybody

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, so Every time a firefighter goes to a fire there's some level of exposure Even if you wear a mask and that's the first question people ask is Well, don't you wear masks like what you do once you get to the front door But everything in between you're inhaling and everything when you're inside of a fire You're That smoke and carcinogens everything's being baked in your skin literally And so you've come back from a fire you take a shower and then like I'd go home the next day My girlfriend would be like hey, you you smell like smoke And like well, that was 24 hours ago and two showers ago. Hey So It's just because you're off gas So all of those carcinogens are in your body every time you go to a fire And so what we wanted to do is track how often that's occurring We also want to attract communicable disease exposures So when people get exposed like hepatitis C or something like that on an emergency They need to track that so if it progresses down the road, there's complete records Um, and then also like hazardous materials So there are all kinds of things that we wanted to track for a fire fire given the hazards in the industry And then eventually build in kind of AI to where you can identify Okay, if you had this many exposures in this amount of time, you now need six months of no exposures Um, because that's how the body recovers And so that that's sort of how we we designed it

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Interesting interesting and the log our x

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Log our x was something I started Uh, while I was a fire chief Um, it garden value fire As kind of an idea because I was looking for a way to track Uh narcotics because paramedics they'll carry in some form of narcotic for pain relief and other other treatments for patients and the Drugs are tracked on pen and paper and these are lethal drugs. I mean how many People die every year in the United States from opioid overdose And so I figured this is very careless as negligent in my mind And so there's got to be a better way and I couldn't find anything out there and so So my my brains like I I bet I could come up with a better process for doing this and so I started building it on the side walls at fire chief Um And then in 2021 it started getting some Good enough traction to where I basically had to decide do I want to Keep going to cdo with log our x or be a fire chief because I can no longer do both

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Yeah, yeah, you were trying to juggle too many things. Uh, I would imagine both were very demanding

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, yeah, and stressful, especially the fire chief part because it was starting to challenging time and tall

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Yeah at that point then you're not only A worried about yourself. You're responsible for how many how many people were you responsible for at that point?

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Well, 40 members of the department, but then you figure a city of 20 something thousand Um, I worked very close to the city manager great guy and so we would work on city wide issues together. It was during the pandemic I was organizing vaccine clinics. Uh, we had massive wildfires snowstorms I mean you you name it we dealt with it in in 2021 or 2020 through 2022 When I was there and so I would come home and just kind of vent to my wife about all the challenges I'm dealing with And then at the same time I get an inquiry for log our x from some companies like hey, this is great Can we use it? You know, who do we send the check to? and so One piece I've got Stress another part. I've got this huge opportunity to change the world and make this amazing amazing business And so It's like boy my own lifespan be much longer if I show with the startup

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): uh-huh and I also see in your profile that there's a A topic you can discuss near and dear to me as a Chrystitutionalist limited government guy Running a government agency like a business unlike some of these places that run like their own personal Theftum

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, yeah, um So that was something that I think kind of came about when I first went got my first um fire chief job And that was because I had taken some time off from being a battalion chief being the fire service I left for two years to do exposure tracker and it kind of rewired my brain on

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Being fiscally responsible the waste the fraud any abuse in the system, right? Yeah

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, and I'm sure anybody in government can recognize that old saying you spent in the military is like this where they say if you don't spend it this Year, you're gonna lose it for next year. And so whatever's been allocated you have to spend all that and then ask for a little bit more Just so they don't think you don't need that much next year And that would drive me nuts as a fire chief when one of my chief officer to come to me and say hey And we got to spend his fiscal years coming up. I was like, no We don't need to spend it We can give that back to the city manager and then we can ask for it in other areas because if he trusts me He's gonna give us money to be actually neat and it would just drive me nuts um, and so being a Startup founder I was able to then bring that back and along with some other aspects, um accountability Um, you know in government it's it can be challenging a lot of people go into government because it's a very secure job It's easy to to slack off you want to without consequence Whereas the startup if you have anybody not carrying their weight Everybody else has to carry it and that might be the failure of the business Everybody has to be working to improve

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): um government I would hope I sure hope Less so in your area of government and what you're doing but other areas rubber rooms and People who are literally they're just coasting through life still collecting paychecks You can't have that in life and death situations like your dealing with

CLIVE SAVACOOL: No, no, you can't And so I'd say as a whole firefighters, you know, they they want to help people they get for the right reasons They do a good job Um, but just out of sheer numbers you are going to get human nature. You're going to get some people that are a challenge Um, and there's something in california called the firefighter bill of rights And there's also the police officer bill of rights Which actually extends a lot more rights for the employee than other employees government employees and so Um without going into detail It's very very very hard to discipline a firefighter in california And terminating them is near it's near a possible

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): That's sad all through government because you get somebody who Sees they can get away with something then they'll try to get away with more And as you said causing others to have to do more it's bad for unit cohesion

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yes, exactly because those people are a very very small minority Um, and sadly Looking back the firefighters that I personally terminated and then from other ones i've seen in the departments All of them got their job back under appeal um, and and so Those gave a poor representation for the the majority of the group that works very very hard um and dedicated staff, but um, but anyway that That that's still important in fact. I remember one time I had the city attorney tell me if you fire him He might get his job back under these reasons in appeal and I said I don't care. I want to be able to stand up and say I did the right thing Yeah, and because of this behavior he should not be a firefighter and so um I said if somebody else wants to give him his job back that's not on me. I'm gonna do the right thing Right. Um, and so so we did terminate him, but uh I would say that that sends a message to the rest of the organization That it's like there there is accountability and Other firefighters that most firefighters that care about their job that care about how the department looks They actually appreciate it when they see someone else who's who's not towing the line Be held accountable and not just like termination, you know the role of of discipline is to change behavior It's to bring them up to speed. Um, and so um That aspect actually helps build up the culture Um, the hard part is when you go into an organization is like a new fire chief And the culture is one of no accountability Then you look like stepdad coming in and disciplining people for things for the case for stuff that they've never been disciplined for They're like, hey, what's up with stepdad? We always got away with doing this Yeah, so it's a challenge, but that's something I learned on the startup side is you have to have a high level of accountability and especially for yourself Because if you don't the startup's gonna fail Um And then I guess some other challenges or l aspects that I brought over is Don't be held back by bureaucracies. You know the the government is known for bureaucracies But as a a fire chief, I found if you keep pushing you find ways around it You can get past those bureaucracies because eventually the people that are pushing to reinforce bureaucracies will give up And so I always had my mind. I'm never gonna not succeed because of the bureaucracy I'm gonna push and fortunately I had a city manager and Tahoe that supported me and In the two years I was there. I don't think they ever told me no when I came up with an idea so um, that's that's very critical and then I'll be the last thing which Oh, I learned on the startup you have to have thick skin As a fire chief as any department head any city any government leader if you're Pushing to get do the right thing being progressive You're gonna make some people mad some people are gonna object because maybe they want to be status quo Maybe they're the lazy ones. They don't want to they don't progress Um, maybe they just enjoy the tradition of their organization. They don't like you changing the culture And so people are gonna say things about you people are gonna go online and bash you they're gonna lie about you And it's very lonely at the top When you're when you're being progressive like that so you have to have thick skin Which is why I've got the Roosevelt speech up on my wall. This is the man in the arena

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Ah, okay. I was wondering what that was but I wasn't gonna ask but now though you pointed it out Now as to the firing and they may come back Even there You can hope That that teaches that person a lesson before they come back too So you're you're helping them in the long run Hopefully, hopefully they don't take away from that ask for you. I do what I want Whatever, hopefully they get something Positive in them out of that going forward also

CLIVE SAVACOOL: For sure and I've seen that I can remember one of the visual where he definitely Was straight and arrow But the two challenges with that was for one the reason for termination was so egregious. He he should have been a firefighter more the second part was It kind of shows Some of the membership that maybe didn't agree with me That I don't have the power to fire them like hey Chief sabbatical might fire you but don't worry in appeal you can you so he doesn't have that much power over us and so um the fear of termination Goes away a little bit when they see someone will look what he did and he got a job back That means I can do whatever I want And I guess another aspect is As a fire chief you can't talk about disciplinary issues. You can't talk about any personnel issues. It's illegal Um, that's why I'm not going in any detail even after I'm not working there But the firefighters they can talk about all the all they want they can tell A make-believe story about why they were fired and make me look like the bad guy the community Actually thought that I reinstated this person and they the community knew what this person did So they thought I reinstated them. So now I've got people that lived on my street Like why did you give so and so his job back? And I said I didn't he got it back under appeal And so Those aspects were were A downside But I also wasn't going to let me that hold me back from doing the right thing either

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Yeah, yeah, well the rap things up. I don't watch it, but I'm curious The there's a fairly new tv series I think going into a second or third season you may already know what I'm Where they let a bunch of criminals out of prison to go fight fires, you know what's Series of I can't think of the name, but you know, do you watch any of those kinds of things on tv or it's like no I live it. I Because I'm wondering how realistic and you know letting people out of prison to fight fires is one thing but like uh Growing up. I remember watching the emergency show. I loved that and adam 12 Now how realistic any of those things are i'm curious whether you've got any input

CLIVE SAVACOOL: I have it. I think I know the show you're talking about it's about the California fire crews in fact califier our state fire agency I think sued because they said hey you have our patches on those uniforms that we're not we're not endorsing this show And I'm paraphrasing I'm actually sued, but I know they they publicly said no no this isn't us um and that's been a long Um, uh, there's been a long history of california using inmate crews to fight fires and they don't grab anybody with kind of any violent um offenses or anything like that so um and they're they're called they're called trustees but They get people That they trust to be on the fire crew And they know that's a good deal And so they don't they don't want to screw it up. So they're actually usually on their best behavior Um I don't watch those shows because usually they're nowhere near reality they're for dramatics Um, like even the movie backcrafts That wasn't real you go into a house fire without a mask on your dead like there's no There's no taking your mask off and getting through like if it's not fully involved like it's a bedroom fire Um You might be able to get down low, but you're gonna suck enough smoke where you're gonna be hacking Uh, but if it's fully involved like to do it on you show and you go inside your your dead because your It goes in and basically destroys all the alveoli in your lungs your your toast Uh So those aren't really realistic. I do remember a show back in the 90s early early 2000s called third watch Um, and I remember as a paramedic watching that thinking okay They have a paramedic on set telling them what drugs to administer and how to treat this person because That one was pretty realistic um But other than that, I don't really watch them probably because I'm kind of dotted over with it

JOSEPH M LENARD (Host): Well, thank you Clive Savacool for coming on. I appreciate you stopping by take care Uh best of luck in all your future endeavors

CLIVE SAVACOOL: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been fun.

[ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast begin Show outro]

Thank you for having tuned into ChristiTutionalist Politics show. Please be sure to check out more about today's discussion at TheLibertyBeacon.com where my articles drop every Saturday in addition to seeing the corresponding TheLibertyBeacon.com piece referenced in the episode of ChristiTutionalist podcast see to the show transcript on podcast platforms that provide access to it like buzzsprout at tinyurl.com/ChristiTutionalist for additional bonus material therein the transcript. Thank you. Take care. God bless

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