CTP (S3EJunSpecial3) From Bound Feet to Revolution: A Chinese Grandmother's Story

CTP S3EJunSpecial3 38m 52s before audio editing   
CTP S3EJunSpecial3 NOTES ( listen (Tue Jun 10 2025 and thereafter) at: 
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2210487/episodes/17238163-ctp-s3ejunspecial3-from-bound-feet-to-revolution-a-chinese-grandmother-s-story )... 
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CTP (S3EJunSpecial3) From Bound Feet to Revolution: A Chinese Grandmother's Story
Tong Ge shares her award-winning novel "The House Filler," the first in her China China Trilogy chronicling three generations of women in China from 1920-1966. Based on her grandmother's true story, this historical fiction follows Golden Phoenix, whose bound feet were one inch too large for ideal marriage prospects, forcing her to marry a widower 20 years her senior.
• Growing up in China before immigrating to Canada in the late 1980s as an international student
• The ancient Chinese tradition of foot binding that measured women's beauty by foot size
• Golden Phoenix's struggle as a "house filler" – a woman who marries a widower
• How her three sons ended up on opposite sides during China's civil war
• Tong Ge's 20-year writing journey as an English-language author
• Current censorship in China that prevents overseas Chinese from interacting with mainland residents on social media
• Awards recognition including winner of 2024 Independent Prize Award for New Fiction
• The upcoming continuation of her trilogy focusing on her parents' generation and her own pre-immigration story
Visit tong-ge.com for more information.  

Chapters

• 0:00 Podcast Introduction and Host Welcome
• 2:55 Meet Tong Ge: Origins and Background
• 8:36 The House Filler: Book Introduction
• 16:51 Chinese Cultural Traditions and Foot Binding
• 27:36 China's Political Climate and Censorship
• 34:11 Literary Journey and Book Awards

Transcript

CTP S3EJunSpecial3 38m 52s before audio editing   
CTP S3EJunSpecial3 NOTES ( listen (Tue Jun 10 2025 and thereafter) at: 
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2210487/ )... 
See buzzsprout Transcript for fuller/extended Show Notes (inc. related links) and Transcript Bonus  
Transcript Bonus: No Transcript Bonus this episode     
CTP (S3EJunSpecial3) From Bound Feet to Revolution: A Chinese Grandmother's Story
Tong Ge shares her award-winning novel "The House Filler," the first in her China China Trilogy chronicling three generations of women in China from 1920-1966. Based on her grandmother's true story, this historical fiction follows Golden Phoenix, whose bound feet were one inch too large for ideal marriage prospects, forcing her to marry a widower 20 years her senior.
• Growing up in China before immigrating to Canada in the late 1980s as an international student
• The ancient Chinese tradition of foot binding that measured women's beauty by foot size
• Golden Phoenix's struggle as a "house filler" – a woman who marries a widower
• How her three sons ended up on opposite sides during China's civil war
• Tong Ge's 20-year writing journey as an English-language author
• Current censorship in China that prevents overseas Chinese from interacting with mainland residents on social media
• Awards recognition including winner of 2024 Independent Prize Award for New Fiction
• The upcoming continuation of her trilogy focusing on her parents' generation and her own pre-immigration story
Visit tong-ge.com for more information.  
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(S3EJunSpecial3 Audio: 38m 08s Tue Jun 10 2025) 
[ Stomping Rock Four Shots - Alex Grohl and Polish Genie - Ted Lenard Jr. & Polka Kings, Used With Permission Under License ]  

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[ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast begin Show intro]

Welcome to ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast aka CTP in association with TheLibertyBeacon.com and I am your host Joseph M Lenard and that's L E N A R D   CTP is your no muss no fuss just me you And occasional guest type podcast as Graham Norton would say let's get on with the show 

[ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast - Segment 1] 


JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):   Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the institutionalist politics podcast. Joining me today is Tom Guh. It looks like GE, like General Electric. But pronounced Guh, but we were just discussing in the green room. So let her educate you like she had to educate me on the name, it's actually backwards, right?
TONG GE:  Yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Go ahead and explain that.
TONG GE:  Oh, the Chinese way, we put the first name last and last name first. So Tom is the last name, and Guh is the first name. Alright. In Chinese this means child song, so S-O-N-G, like if you want to know the meaning of it, yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Interesting, that's interesting. But yeah, it's spelled T-O-N-G-G-E, like General Electric Initials.
TONG GE:  Don't tell me you can't write an act trick, it's easier to write.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Hey, we gotta keep a sense of humor, right? Or we go crazy, so.
TONG GE:  That's right, yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  The obvious first thing is clearly you were born in Brooklyn, right? Yeah, right. For those, if people didn't get it by the name, if you're looking at behind the scenes video, you can kind of tell she doesn't look like a traditional Brooklyn girl. So let's do that proverbial usual first thing. Where were you born and raised and where all have you been, where are you now, kind of thing?
TONG GE:  I was born and raised in China, and I came to Canada in the late 80s as an international student. So I went to graduate school in University of Saskatchewan, like in Saskatchewan, Canada. And after I got to my master's degree with a major of agriculture economics, I moved to Calgary, Canada in 1993. So I have been here since. So now I'm in Calgary, Canada.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Where the stamp eaters play?
TONG GE:  Exactly, wow, you know about stamp eaters.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Well, I'm in Detroit. I used to vacation in Canada all the time. So unlike most Americans, I actually kind of understand Canada.
TONG GE:  That's right.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Been over there all the time, and yeah, I watch CFL games all the time. So I like to joke the winner play blue bombers owe me some money because I lost since they didn't win the grey cup. Oh, no, no, no. Well, anyway, that's a whole other story. You're here to talk books, not sports. Yeah. Although, you know, just I want to get into China in general before we get to the book, but I never script shows. I have no to whatnot, but that kind of raises an odd question for me. Like, what kind of sports do they have in China that we don't have here?
TONG GE:  Are there any? People tennis is very popular in China. It's not a big thing here, but it's very popular in China.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Right. That's like soccer or football is far more a European thing, although it's here. So yeah, in today's modern society with the aircraft and now the internet, everything is a click away. Everything is co-mingled. So it's not like it was way back when, but ping pong originated there.
TONG GE:  I believe so. I didn't get into research on that.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. Putting you on the spot, it doesn't say you're a Chinese historian. No, no, no. I kind of put you on the spot with that one.
TONG GE:  Yeah, you know why ping pong has been really popular because it takes life space. Like in China, we back when we didn't, well, we still don't have much space, right? Because of the huge population. So table tennis doesn't require a big field, like a soccer or hockey or, you know, football. So that's pretty much everybody can do it. It's really cheap. Like when I was growing up in school, we have ping pong tables, outdoor ping pong tables. And we can just practice after that, even the recess. So yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I mean, China's a big place. It's a whole lot of space. But in the urban centers, it's like Tokyo also. I would just, yeah, whole bunches of people packed in there.
TONG GE:  Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  So what you're saying space wise in the urban centers, that makes sense. Yeah. A lot of high rises without a whole lot of room to build like a hockey rink like you were suggesting.
TONG GE:  People leave in like a matchbox, right? Like high rises like a matchbox. Each one have a little box.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  All right. And before we get too much further, we'll go into the book, which will kind of cover this a little hint at it. But I want to make sure up front here, then understanding that the Chinese people are not my enemy. But the Chinese government is right. It's like the Iranian people too. Yeah. I have no qualms whatsoever with the Iranian people. It's the nutcases in charge of that country currently that are the problem. And unfortunately, the book of Revelation seems pretty obvious. I had it there in a hand basket because there's just some people that help and time not willing to get along with others.
TONG GE:  Yeah. I think because China has like thousands of years of imperial system. So the emperor is like a, you know, it's a total, total, total, a tearing. How do you say that?
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Total, a teary and yes. I know where you meant right now. You got it. I can't say it either.
TONG GE:  For a long, long time. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. And your book kind of. It's in all that and covers all that because it talks about the communist in power in 1949. So that's a perfect segue. First, since I haven't given the name of the book, what have you give the name of the book and tell us about it.
TONG GE:  Yeah. The title of the book is called the house failure. Yeah. The reason it is called the house failure because in Chinese culture, a woman who marries a widower is called a house failure. At least they're like a traditionally like before, right? Before women's rights came along. So Golden Phoenix is a protagonist of the book. The book is based on my grandmother's story. So when she was growing up, that is, you know, the time span of this story covers from 1920 to 1966. So when she was a child or before that, like for thousands of years, Chinese women's beauty was measured by the size of their feet. Now by their looks because the smaller the feet, they're more desirable. That's because like in soon dynasty, there was an emperor who liked the tiny feet, the women. So that's how the tradition started. And so Chinese parents would band their children's feet at age four or five.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  It's like in Egypt, they would bind the head to elongate the skull in China because of this, I dare say, foot fetish.
TONG GE:  Yeah. They found the feet. It was put by the age for lots of men, right? So by the Golden Phoenix being a marginalized child, she missed her father, missed her ideal footbunding age at four or five. So she didn't get her feet bound until she was six. Therefore, the size of her feet didn't achieve the ideal size, which is called the Golden Water Lately Size. It's three Chinese twin is about four inches long. But her feet was one inch too long. So that made her, it's hard for her to marry. And the second reason was that because she was trained as the simstress. And later became the bright winner of the family. So her father kept her at home for too long until she was 26. By then, you know, all the young men were married, right? Because way back when people married, I did 18, 20. So she had no choice but to marry a widower who was 20 years older than her. That's why she was called a house failure.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Interesting. That's very interesting. And that plays out all through. I'm not going to read the whole description because I, but I do meant to see mention of the Red Army and during the upheaval of the Japanese invasion of her hometown and all that. So I mean, we're talking a lot of turmoil and struggle.
TONG GE:  Yeah. Yeah. So she went through after her husband passed away. She was in poverty with five children. And she didn't like way back when women don't work, right? She didn't, she couldn't fit them. And then she had to send her twins to Red Army. And then Japanese came. Then they have to escape as refugees. And in the meantime, you know, her two daughters were missing. And eventually all three of her sons joined the armies become soldiers. But her elders, the sound joined the nationalist army and her twins joined the communist army. So they were like, they have been enemies. Even during the time with.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  It was a civil war more or less.
TONG GE:  Yeah. After Japanese surrounded, the civil war started. I mean, during the Japanese invasion, the two parties briefly joined the force.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  But they tolerated one another. The common enemy.
TONG GE:  They were not really like they were not unified. They have different ideology, like different. So the difference was too big. It cannot be consolidated. It cannot be resolved. So moment after Japanese surrendered, the Civil War started. Yeah. So it's a story of survival of, you know, betrayal, love and betrayal of resilient suffering, of all that. And, you know, I never.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  This is obviously in English for English audiences. Yes. It might seem like a dumb question, but to make sure everybody knows. Because I want to set up the, is it available in Mandarin?
TONG GE:  No, not yet. I'm translating it back right now.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Okay. So you are going to try to get copies into China.
TONG GE:  That probably would be hard. I wish I can publish in Taiwan. Yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. That they are right. And then some of them would get smuggled in. Right. So do you still have family back in China?
TONG GE:  Not immediate families. I have, you know, sister, cousins and nephews and niece. But we're not actually, some of them, they stopped communicating with me like we, because of something I said, in a witchhead group, they got scared. So they cut me off like the shadow by me. So.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Right. Kind of for their own protection. No doubt. I was exactly going to go there next. Indeed. That's why I asked if you had family back there still. No doubt. Because they constantly monitor communications there and they might be concerned that you might westernize them too much.
TONG GE:  Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, I, I've been shadow band. Let's say if the witchhead group have both overseas Chinese and Chinese Chinese Chinese, Chinese living in China. Anything I post. Chinese living in China cannot say only overseas Chinese can say so to them, I'm like a ghost. But I can say what do they put in the group? They couldn't say me. So I have no influence whatsoever.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. Interesting. So it's kind of like just all one way communication. It's, it's like, it's like going into an art museum, right? You could see what was put up. There's no interacting with the people who put that together. That's the very interesting, very interesting. Indeed, that's such an interesting situation. I'm trying to formulate where I want to go next to my next question. Oh, I remember I had thought of something. I didn't make a note though. Completely different direction. So let's forget all that. How many languages do you speak? Oh, just the Mandarin and the English. Oh, okay. I figured it had to at least be the two. I didn't know if it was more than that because coming from there and then also spending the time here and knowing English. I just, I didn't want to assume, but I know people that come from other places more recently have a better appreciation and understanding of the need to speak multiple languages. This is what I guess I was going to get at. Yeah. Yeah.
TONG GE:  Chinese is my mother town and the English is my second language. So, bless you. That's okay. So it's still easier for me to write in Chinese than in English.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah, thank you. I have a bad cold. So I had to mute my mic because I was coughing up a storm. I was hoping you'd just keep talking while I was talking. Well, I was hacking up a lump in the background. They'll see it on the behind the scenes video. They won't have heard it in the audio at least. I was able to hit my new button in time.
TONG GE:  Successfully like suffocating yourself.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Oh, goodness gracious. But I didn't want to cancel on you or anything like that. I've got a bad cold right now, but I seem to be stable enough that the car thing fits the far enough apart that I thought we'd be able to get this in. Okay. Another thing I just. A random segue. You're part of Mickey Mickelson's. What would you call him? Your publicist. My publicist. Yes. Right. Right. Right. I met Mickey through Miss Liz T time the other day. So and Mickey reached out. I'd say, Hey, I've got a show. If you want to introduce me to some of your authors, I'll be happy to take a look and see who also fit. And as best as I can tell, there's nobody I want to ignore. So, because I've got a working relationship also with Michael Stover, who's a musical artist representative. And so I've got a whole big parade of different musicians on and now I'm going to have a whole big parade of authors. You never know. You never know. Right. Networking. You never know who you're going to know who knows somebody who can help. Right.
TONG GE:  Exactly. Yes.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  So I'm very happy. I would have certainly never run into you otherwise. So exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And vice versa. But I was starting to hold up this from Mickey Mickelson behind the scenes. They could see it. There's an award there. Go ahead and tell us about the award.
TONG GE:  It is this book is a winner of 2024. Independent prize award for new fiction. And it is also the finalist for 2023 islands. It's called I like EYE L A N D S islands book award. It's not a word is in grace, clearly or not, but it's worldwide. Yeah. And then now it is a finalist for 2024 Canadian book club awards for fiction. So the winners of the book club awards will be announced this month on the 22nd. So I'm still I'm crossing my finger for that.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Okay. We've got to make an explanation now because this will be airing sometime later in the year. We're recording on January the 8th. So we're talking January of 2025. Now January will be a few months past by the time this actually. Just to give people a reference of what are they talking about that. Couple months later, you'll be hearing this. We're recording on January 8th. Okay. Just so we don't completely lose the audience, although I probably confused them already. I tend to I tend to do that. It's kind of like unintentional. Not try to trick the audience, but give them puzzles or something. Yes. How can I confuse them this time?
TONG GE:  I see. Yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. All in good fun. Yeah. Got to keep a sense of humor or we will go crazy. So now is this your first international book?
TONG GE:  This is my first. Yeah. My first. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  I take it though. You've been probably writing for a long time. This is just the first international. It's like me. I've been writing ever since I was young. My first international book wasn't published to 2022. So you've been writing. Right. This is just the first.
TONG GE:  I've been writing for a very long time. I wrote a lot of poems in Chinese when I was in college. But for this, actually I wrote a trilogy. So this is the first book of China, China, trilogy.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  There we go.
TONG GE:  And I started the process in 2004. We're talking about 20 years ago. And yeah, because English is my second language and I don't have a background of creative writing. So it took me a long, long time to get here. Yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  I'm interested. I kind of chuckled at that by you saying that because my terror strikes book. I actually started in 2006. Oh, and I had a beginning, a middle and an end, but there was just something missing. So I put it aside. And 15 years later, I picked it back up and finished it. So I understand that sometimes the time, just the timing isn't right until the timing is right. Yeah. Kind of like a hand of fate involved in it. Yeah.
TONG GE:  That's right.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. I made myself a note here because you mentioned fiction. Well, do you also mention though, it's about family. So, but you wrote it as fiction, although there's a lot of true story in it.
TONG GE:  Yeah. I think 90% of this book is based on true stories. Only 10% is fictionalized. More like for the details, right? You know, that part, I mean, I don't know how do you write it as an off-action. So details and also I have done some characters consolidation just to make the story flows better. Yeah. But largely it's based on real life stories and events.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. Oh, I forget who it was that I spoke with just a few weeks ago indeed about that composite characters. Like the movie Patriot Day about the Boston Marathon bombing. The Mark Wahlberg character in that movie is really a composite and glomeric character representing three or four different people. So that it can flow otherwise there's too many, too many chefs in the soup.
TONG GE:  So, right? Too many characters. You can confuse people. Yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Right. It's like, what? Who's this guy now? I thought we were dealing with X and now we got Y and who the heck is this person? Oh, no pun intended by Z there.
TONG GE:  Yeah. I mean, I do. We call the Chinese name. So even more.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Oh. Oh, boy. Oh, like I said, I have a cold. So I'm just like my brain's a little foggy right now. Okay. You said it's going to be a, did you say two or three or how many books in the series?
TONG GE:  It's in a trilogy. Yes.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  It'll be a trilogy one. It's done. You've got the second one in process.
TONG GE:  No, they're all done. They're all finished. Oh, they're all done. Okay.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  I thought it was just the one. Are they all released? Or it's just the one released?
TONG GE:  No, just this one is released. The other two has not like I have. I'm still looking for publisher for my second book. Yeah. The reason all three books are finished at the same time is because I started with a really, really long novel. Just one book covering three generations.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  And then I started with a book called The Foreign Peace.
TONG GE:  Yeah. Way too big, right? Way too big. Yeah. Well, I finished that. Like the word count was 240,000 words. Oh, yeah. Way too big. And I didn't know why until later I learned that for literary fiction or historical fiction, you don't, they don't publish a book that big. I decided to divide into three books. Each book focused on one generation. So the first book is about my grandmother's generation. Second book is about my parents' generation. So because my own story before I came to Canada. So that's why it's called the China, China trilogy. And yeah. And then my next trilogy will be titled Oh, Canada. Ha ha ha ha ha.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Well, by the time you do that, the national anthem over there will change 10 more times. I joke, I love my Canadian friends over there. But yeah, I mean, how many times have you guys tweaked the national anthem over there? It's like, can you please leave it alone? I can't relearn a new list of lines. Yeah. Oh, so how many years have you been in Canada then?
TONG GE:  I came here in 1988. So yeah, it's over 30 years. It's like.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  So you came at the end of Reagan's first term, then.
TONG GE:  Yeah. Yeah. But you know, when we first came, we were as a as a as a international students or new immigrants were pretty fog about politics. Like we didn't even know which part party means what we had no idea until like gradually we learned, right? Now, like a lot of Chinese immigrants, we know what is conservative, what is labor, like we know the differences, like way back. I didn't even know the difference. And I remember, you know, in Canada, that was Maruni, who was the prime minister. When I first came here. I remember him. Yeah. So why I remember one morning, when I opened my door, when I was a student, there's a flyer underneath the door and I picked up it says, let's change the government. I was looking around thinking, holy, this people, there would be arrested. Who did this? This is like.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  I was so scared. I have a kind of a. Yeah. Yeah. We're laughing, but it's not funny. No, because yeah, exactly back back home. They'd be stringing somebody up for that. You don't try to change the government. That's like a major fall in it. You will be arrested.
TONG GE:  100% if you try to change the government, even peacefully, you cannot. If you try to distribute any flyer, so I try to influence any people. I gave a speech or have associate like, association, like, you know, in China now, they are not allowed any association, even if it's just for a stack. In club is not allowed to exist. They do not allow you to even a settling club. That any kind of club with association because they were afraid that people got together. Right?
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. Any where someone could gather for one purpose. Yeah. It can morph into another purpose. Right. So it's something in disguise. Right? That's what. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And they ask the old advantage goes divide and conquer. Right? If they never keep you divided. Yep.
TONG GE:  Even though the constitution changes constitution allowed it. I mean, the constitution is built for free price, free speech and the free association, free demonstration, free this free.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  It ain't worth the paper. It's printed on though. Yeah. Exactly. Well, hey, with Justin Trudeau finally resigning. I mean, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Now, again, we're recording in January. He just resigned a few days ago. This will be a few months afterwards. Who knows what will happen between now and then. But yeah. In the Canadian Constitution and even here in the US, the erosion of the constitutional rights. Just enormous. And we need a restoration here in the United States, just like Taylor does. And the United Kingdom does. And France and Germany and everywhere. We need a return to constitutional governance again. We've all long lost. We've not gone completely down the road of communist China. But there are a whole lot of people in the US and the two does of the world in Canada who want one party rule in your nation also. Yeah. Yeah. So like.
TONG GE:  Trudeau, what he did to the demonstrators, you know, the track drivers a few years ago, I was horrible. That was like brutal. Like those people, I don't know if you saw the video clip. Those people demonstrate that some of them be trumped by the horses. Have you seen that?
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yes. Yes.
TONG GE:  Yes. He abused the power and turned his guns to the people. That's, you know, his long overdue. His long overdue issue.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. I mean, his dad was bad enough. Oh, yeah. He's a thousand times worse. He's worse. His work. Yeah. Because I'm old enough to remember daddy Trudeau. Yeah.
TONG GE:  And I know like a daddy to do brought Canada into like a big, big debt, right? After his term and his son succeeded that. I don't like any elected them. Like, you know, especially for some. I'm sometimes, you know, the democracy is a great system, but, but not necessary. Like a majority is always right. That's a problem. Correct.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. That's why we're not a true, none of us are true democracies because of that. We're not supposed to be a mob rule. And that that's part of the problem. Too few people pay any attention to what's going on, but yet they'll show up on election day. Oh, look, I know that name. Let me vote for that name.
TONG GE:  And the sun, like I heard a summer week, like a loss of women voted for Trudeau because he he's handsome. Like, I mean, come on, you're now voting for a movie star. Like, what do you think, right? But like now when we most of us, like most of Canadians realize he's a bad prime minister, but it's like we already paid the price. Right. You know, the equation goes like skyrocket and mortgage rate and everything. It's just horrible. Like, you know, I would like, standards of leaving actually has gone down, you know, last a few years, then gone up. It's has gone down. Like, even with the massive, you know, social, you know, where fair. I never got it. I never got the penny. Even though my business has been affected by the COVID, but because I'm like a business for self, I think any those assistance, like, you know, money.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Right. No, that's how leftist government works. They want to pick and choose their friends, their family members, their donors to give. Special favors to special people who then return it. Hit back some of that money to help keep them in power.
TONG GE:  You know, one thing's really interesting. If you give money to one person or a very small group of people for buying the vote, right, you, you commit crime.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  You wasn't an individual. Yes.
TONG GE:  It's all the bribery. But if you gave the money to a large group, if the group is large enough, that's called a where fair.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Right. Yeah.
TONG GE:  They do this because they won't have more votes. Right. So. Anyway, it's, I'm glad that he's redoning, but let's say what's going to happen next.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. Yeah. We'll, we'll have people finally awakened from their slumber. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Too many people have only consumed by the, you've heard the term bread in circus. No. No. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Out of the Greek and Roman days, the emperors would keep the people pacified with just enough bread for their bellies. Yeah. So they wouldn't revolt out of hunger and the circus, you know, the big circus forms and the gladiators and that to keep them distracted. Look at that. Look at that. Don't look at what we're doing. Yeah. It's like a bread and circus distraction. I see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And far too many people today are indeed consumed by bread and circus, coasting through life. Like the, if you heard the boiling frog analogy, right, you put a frog into. Yeah. We know that. Yeah. Bring it to a slow boil. Oh, hey, too late. It recognizes it's boiling to death. It's too late. Yeah. Right. But you try to put it in hot water. Whoa. Wait a minute. That's not a shock to this. And too many people are indeed that slow rising temperature frog. Not paying attention till it's going to be too late. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Any rate. Thank you for joining me. Tonga, even though it's G. E. T. O. N. G. Space G. E. And your book is the house filler as well as the other ones. Be out pretty soon. So I hope people will will watch for that. Have you. Do you have a website? An author's site or? Yeah. It's my, my pen name.
TONG GE:  Tonga.com. So P. O. N. G. G. E. Dotcom. Okay. It's a dash, not an underscore a dash. Yeah. All right. I'll do something. Just one more thing. When you, when people go to Amazon to look for my book, you also need to put Tonga as an author's name.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Otherwise you'll find a whole bunch of household items. Oh, right. Yeah. You put in Tonga and you'll get a bunch of kitchen utensils. Right.


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