CTP (S3EJunSpecial8) Escaping Cult Control

CTP (S3EJunSpecial8) Escaping Cult Control
Exploring more of the world of fascinating Guests, Health, Human Nature, Music / Movies, Mysterious, Politics, Social Issues, and much more  
See buzzsprout Transcript for fuller/extended Show Notes (inc. related links) and Transcript Bonus  
Transcript Bonus: TheLibertyBeacon "Music, TV, and yes more Movies" 
Our conversation with documentary filmmaker Scott Holman delves into the intersection of creativity, religious control systems, and the healing power of artistic expression after escaping cult environments.
• Born and raised in northern Wisconsin, Scott began his creative journey as a musician in the 1990s
• Studied photography and film in Minneapolis before focusing on documentary filmmaking
• Created "Witness Underground," documenting artists who escaped Jehovah's Witnesses and processed trauma through music
• Explains the BITE model (Behavior, Information, Thought, Emotion control) used by cults to manipulate members
• Discusses "bounded choice" - the illusion of freedom within predetermined options set by group leaders
• Shares personal experience with religious control as his parents joined Jehovah's Witnesses during his childhood
• Highlights financial incentives that corrupt religious organizations (JWs generate billions annually from literature sales)
• Emphasizes the distinction between genuine faith and harmful controlling systems
• Advocates for using art as therapy to process trauma after leaving high-control groups
• Premiered "Witness Underground" at nine film festivals including the DeCult conference in New Zealand
Watch "Witness Underground" on Amazon, Apple TV, YouTube Movies, Tubi TV, or at witnessunderground.com.

Chapters

• 0:38 Introduction to Constitutionalist Politics Podcast
• 2:57 Scott's Background and Musical Journey
• 9:02 Transition to Filmmaking and Photography
• 15:25 Witness Underground Documentary
• 23:01 The Psychology of Cults
• 31:49 Religion vs. Harmful Control Systems
• 40:54 Defining Cults and Bounded Choice
• 46:46 Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

Transcript

CTP S3EJunSpecial8 43m 05s before audio editing   
CTP S3EJunSpecial8 NOTES ( listen (Thu Jun 26 2025 and thereafter) at: 
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2210487/episodes/17393670-ctp-s3ejunspecial8-escaping-cult-control )... 
See buzzsprout Transcript for fuller/extended Show Notes (inc. related links) and Transcript Bonus  
Transcript Bonus: TheLibertyBeacon "Music, TV, and yes more Movies"     
CTP (S3EJunSpecial8) Escaping Cult Control
Exploring more of the world of fascinating Guests, Health, Human Nature, Music / Movies, Mysterious, Politics, Social Issues, and much more  
Our conversation with documentary filmmaker Scott Holman delves into the intersection of creativity, religious control systems, and the healing power of artistic expression after escaping cult environments.
• Born and raised in northern Wisconsin, Scott began his creative journey as a musician in the 1990s
• Studied photography and film in Minneapolis before focusing on documentary filmmaking
• Created "Witness Underground," documenting artists who escaped Jehovah's Witnesses and processed trauma through music
• Explains the BITE model (Behavior, Information, Thought, Emotion control) used by cults to manipulate members
• Discusses "bounded choice" - the illusion of freedom within predetermined options set by group leaders
• Shares personal experience with religious control as his parents joined Jehovah's Witnesses during his childhood
• Highlights financial incentives that corrupt religious organizations (JWs generate billions annually from literature sales)
• Emphasizes the distinction between genuine faith and harmful controlling systems
• Advocates for using art as therapy to process trauma after leaving high-control groups
• Premiered "Witness Underground" at nine film festivals including the DeCult conference in New Zealand
Watch "Witness Underground" on Amazon, Apple TV, YouTube Movies, Tubi TV, or at witnessunderground.com.
[ Addl. Copyright material here-in, Used With Permission ]  

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- http://WitnessUnderground.com  
- http://bananaislandfilms.com  
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(S3EJunSpecial8 Audio: 43m 05s Thu Jun 26 2025) 
[ Stomping Rock Four Shots - Alex Grohl and Polish Genie - Ted Lenard Jr. & Polka Kings, Used With Permission Under License ]  

some "Behind-the-Scenes" Video version of ChristiTutionalist Politics found via (Bitchute,Brighton,DailyMotion(France),Rumble,YouTube)...   
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In addition to seeing corresponding TheLibertyBeacon piece referenced in episodes of CTP, see too Show transcript on Podcast platforms that provide access to it (like buzzsprout (tinyurl.com/ChristiTutionalist)) for addl bonus material  there-in


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[ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast begin Show intro]

Welcome to ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast aka CTP in association with TheLibertyBeacon.com and I am your host Joseph M Lenard and that's L E N A R D   CTP is your no muss no fuss just me you And occasional guest type podcast as Graham Norton would say let's get on with the show 

[ChristiTutionalist Politics podcast - Segment 1] 


JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):   Joining me today will be Scott Holman. And before we bring them on, I just wanted to say normally the extended show notes can be found at Buzzsprout, where the show was primarily housed, even though it's on 20 plus audio platforms, by video behind the scenes platforms. But I say that because if you go to Buzzsprout and look at the transcript, there you will find the extended show notes with related links and bonus material. And I'm pre-saying that today, that today's bonus, normally I don't decide what the bonus material is until I'm rushing at the last minute to put the show up. But today I've already pre-decided I'm going to have the Liberty Beacon piece Music TV movies. It will be known why in a minute that that makes sense. So at any rate, welcome to the
show, Scott Holman. How are you? 
SCOTT HOMAN:  Thanks so much. I'm good. Joseph, I really appreciate the invite. I just talk about filmmaking and art and I guess some religious stuff.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yep, absolutely. Yeah, we'll get to the more serious stuff at the end. I want to start light hearted. And the first obvious question though is like, Q the who, who are you? Right? Where were you born? Where were you raised? Where are you now? That kind of bio-background stuff.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Yeah, I was born and raised in northern Wisconsin and the north woods there. It's kind of like Canadian lifestyle, boreal forest, wild place with beyond the farms of the middle America. And yeah, I was the rest when where who how. My parents, my grandparents moved there after World War II. My grandma was born there and raised there before that. And she actually my parents, my grandparents just one just passed and the other one's 97 98 right now. So World War II vets. Yeah, so that's been interesting. Like their whole life's been interesting. I feel like our family's very like disconnected and like lived in different states every generation except for like we have some connection to Wisconsin still. As far as like my creative world, I played a lot of music back in the 90s and had a filmmaking program that was really cool in our high school. And that eventually led me to continue on in the process of storytelling. I've got a couple films out now about music and basically do you have music and connection and processing trauma through music, which we'll get into. Oh, absolutely. That's oh, and I mean, New Zealand now. Oh, you're in. Oh, okay. I mean, New Zealand now, but this is my, I've been like 40 some countries traveling, but this is like my sixth country I've lived in my eighth year living abroad from the
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  states. Interesting, interesting. So yeah, the next thing I wanted to get into was hence why the transcript bonus will be music, TV and movies piece. You had a band, you had a couple records.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Let's talk about that first. Yeah, so back in the 90s, if anyone remembers a lot of live music, and it was kind of like the pre there's raves, but it was live music was still like the big thing. And I was really hooked on like Nirvana and Weezer and those like grunge bands and alternative music bands. And so we're all my friends. So we had our neighbor passed and our parents bought the next property in the countryside in like the forest. So we had this whole house that became like a music studio for us when we were teenagers and like everyone in the town that we were kind of friends with skateboarding, snowboarding, music community, like broader instruments and left them there. So I basically had access to a music studio and my whole teenage high school years and we mostly just played for fun. But then out of that kind of creative play space, I formed a band with some friends and I was just a second guitarist playing kind of more their music. But we did an album and played it around the state played a bunch of bars and stuff as teenagers. And then then I formed a band of my own with them kind of helping me record it and produce those songs into proper songs and then made that album and then went to that around the state of it and a bit. And then I moved on to photography and film school in Minneapolis, which is kind of like the nearby city. There's like Milwaukee, Minneapolis and Chicago, all the three, four hours away.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  All of the American attention. Yeah, yeah. Love that place. Out of the what ballpark did that used to be? Home plate still there and the mall. There's a bleacher seat up there still, but they've still got up there. I don't remember what that market was. That's funny. I didn't know that history.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Oh, he was actually kind of. No, but it's actually really interesting because it's one of the kind of, they have a lot of innovative things to do in Minneapolis. One of them being, they have a large music history with pop Dylan and Prince and a bunch of like really cool indie bands and a cool hip hop scene. And it's still going to this day. But they also like innovated with like electric train systems back in the time I lived there like early two, like 20 years ago, 25 years ago, they started so Mall of America was one of those big new things that they did. But they also connected trains from there to downtown to the baseball stadium to St. Paul, Minneapolis, and then all the way out to the suburbs, like all these, like it became this like really cool way to get around and get rid of your car and like have a more modern futuristic lifestyle. Yeah, they're kind of pushing. There's always pushing the boundaries there. And there's a lot of cool stuff going on in the app. Most people don't know that if you don't like hang out there for. Yeah, well, I
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  love to fly over Minneapolis. Yeah, I've flown into Minneapolis to drive to Kansas and other states several times for work. So, but I love talking music with people who have the musical background because my dad, Ted Leonard Jr. created the polka kings and they had three albums. I wrote and recorded music in the 70s and 80s, but I wasn't good enough for a record deal. But today anybody can record anything and put it online for 99 cents. So, it's like, I was born too early, I guess. It's interesting you talk about the polka kings because where I'm from,
SCOTT HOMAN:  every wedding I'd ever been to until I was about 18 had a live polka band and like people in the church I grew up in played in the live polka bands that toured around for weddings. And I you dance old polka polka dance every single song for the entire wedding party. And it wasn't until like year 2000 that there was a DJ that played a wedding in my experience because of like Wisconsin, Minneapolis or Chicago, that region is very Germanic Polish. And even even Yankovic's like weirdo Yankovic, his dad is Frankie Yankovic. One of the polka kings I actually call him that. That's interesting you have a connection to polka because it's a weird part of my childhood. But I actually really like a lot of heritage from Europe.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. I did that for a while too. I DJed events. My sister is seven years younger. So, when I was no longer writing and recording music, I had a huge record collection. I was like, we need somebody to do our high school dance. I can do that. I've got all the stuff. So, I did that for a while too. But that then transitioned and led, you said film school, to more a visual art desire. That's true. Yeah. And that already my grandmother
SCOTT HOMAN:  bought me a Kodak 110 back when I was like 12 years old. So, and my mom loved to shoot photography on film. So, I did a ton of that. I was always the kid. This is a great picture of me in high school with like a whole bunch of my friends. I mean, with like a Canon AE-1 film camera around my neck hanging there. I was kind of always like this guy doing something with photography. We had a great dark room and photography program and early Photoshop program and the documentary program where we made films and we did live TV as well. Mostly goofy stuff like snowboard and skateboard videos and music videos and like a little bit of like scary stuff like a weird, you know, creepy dream sequence to a effects twin video or music. So, like kind of, yeah, just a lot of playful stuff. But, but that kind of what got you interested more to that direction then. Yeah. And what I found making music was that like I wasn't going to take it so seriously because I realized, you know, I could play songs I could play and perform but at the same time my friends that was around were like much more talented and took it a lot more seriously. That was their thing and I cared more about storytelling. But I because of my appreciation for music was like, well, I should tell storytelling do storytelling around music and musical artists. And what that moment in film school when I was doing photography more and in Minneapolis, I was hanging out with musicians in Minneapolis and that fast forward till today. I'm still connected to those people. We don't spend a lot of time together, but I made my second movie and my most important movie to this point about their lives in Minneapolis at that time making music through the 80s, 90s and early 2000s when they like an archive. So in terms of documentary filmmaking, knowing a story exists, it's not necessarily a documentary that you can make if they don't have an archive because you need to tell the past and how do you do that visually. And so they had like feature films, short films, music videos, them goofing around making like absurd horror and comedy videos and also an incredible body of musical work that I could use for the soundtrack. And then they also made an incredible amount of work, even more and more powerful, more important work after in the transition that the film talks about about changing their worldview, having a transformative experience in their life. And then they have more art that captured that moment in the now the past, even though you know, the movie shows are kind of like, this is our modern day, but obviously like it's a film. So it was years ago as well. But to have both periods of time captured in music and video made it this like beautiful, just it was like a documentary waiting to happen. And that film is witnessed underground, but we'll get there.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. Well, we're there. Is that okay? Is that available online or?
SCOTT HOMAN:  Yeah. So I went through the process of learning the business of film after making the film and because I'm sort of was approaching it, you know, as an independent filmmaker, independent artist.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  And was that the last two years on it? Yeah, you did that before you officially created Benela Island films or after you set that up. Yeah, we're sort of jumping through a couple
SCOTT HOMAN:  decades here, but yeah, yeah, I basically the film is available on Amazon and Apple TV and YouTube movies and to be TV. Those are the big ones. And it's also on like 14 other streaming services that are kind of smaller. Yeah, go to witness underground.com. You can find all the ways to watch it wherever you live. And in this North America has the most access. But it's all there. It has a global map of where you can watch it. So if you're watching this internationally, you can probably watch it somewhere, including the Benanna Island films, my YouTube channel. I've cut the film up into like eight chapters so you can watch it in small bits and see the whole
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  movie that way. You can watch it more like a TV series. Yeah, episode in a way. Yeah,
SCOTT HOMAN:  that's short time of episodes. Yeah. So yeah, it's available everywhere. And as far as Ben Island films goes, so after I went through a similar thing as the artists in that film. So just to keep it simple, it's about artists who escaped the Jehovah's Witnesses, or you could think of it as a cult religious cult. They have a very there's some very strong elements to their faith that are very like abusive. And it's a really impactful story for the people in the film. But also I went through something similar because my parents joined that religion when I was like a young person. So I was like, they're trying to indoctrinate us, but they didn't know how to do that. So they failed at indoctrinating me. And I needed to make a film about how they treated me when I was being honest about what I believed with them and what I didn't believe. And they are coerced to treat you a certain way and then never talk to you again for the rest of your life.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  So I'm going through that for like 16 years. Yeah, Scientology to I mean, once you're in, you're not supposed to be ever let out. And that means exactly the leo remedy did that great show on the A&E for a few years about that and literal camps with the barbed wire to keep people in that you that's not a faith that you don't have people there because they believe they're there because they're being held hostage. Yeah, exactly. That's a great way to say it. And I
SCOTT HOMAN:  feel like like I'm a religious refugee, not because I want to, but like that's what's happened. And the people that are in it are what did you call held hostage? They're held hostage, but with a mental prison with self policing, with brainwashing tactics with
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  with the relation with coercion. Yeah, since you like music, we both like music and we both like movies. I'm not a movie critic per se, but I do sometimes write online reviews. Like Creed, my own prison, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Did you see the movie here, chick? I just started watching it recently. Yeah, it's actually awesome. I was so impressed by how deep that they go into worldview, having a worldview and like having that be challenged. I'm so impressed by that movie. And I'm so excited to finish it. But yeah, someone was like, we need to watch that together. So finally you got around to watching it. Yeah,
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  some people indeed will, it's like, oh, they're unfortunately, dare say this. I mean, they're so weak in their faith that they can't watch something like that because in out of fear, something within them will then make them question themselves. I welcome questions. This whole show is about self reflection. If you can't handle the questions, it's because deep down, you know, the answers might not be so convenient. And yeah, here, I went in expecting nothing of that movie. I thought, Oh, great. Another Hollywood attack on religion film and but it was very well written, very well acted. It is worth seeing. And again, if you're indeed strong in your face, you should not have a problem with the questions that arise
SCOTT HOMAN:  within it. Yeah, and I feel like if you are challenged, then okay, you do more research, like try to try to figure it out. Like ultimately what I've learned from a neurobiology is, is that we have a model in our head about how reality works. And if we're faced with a challenge, then we have to do something to update the model or we can we can live in a very unhealthy place of cognitive dissonance where we have two opposing ideas that cannot coexist and our brains not solving it for us interpreting it in one way or the other. And it's good to go figure that out. You need to update your model whenever new information is presented. And it's okay if it's challenging. It's healthy to do that because we're always growing. There's always an infinite onion layer being pulled back about, you know, getting the core of an idea or how reality works. Yeah. And no one knows. Actually, no one has an actual answer.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  You're confident it's actually a problem, I think. And I think even Scientology, which I'm not a fan of has some validity to it if it were indeed truly all about free will. But it was created by Ron L. Hubbard as a scam to sell books. And Leah Remini exposed that's basically what it's continued to be. They'll rewrite a book, a line in a book, and you're forced to buy it to replace the insisting book. It's like a money laundering scam kind. I call there's very little religion or faith in it, but calling it a religion gets them. Federal breaks.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Yeah. Yeah. Oh, deeply. And I feel like that's actually the thing when it comes to the human rights topic, which my film doesn't dive into, but it's definitely the thing that's changing human rights laws around the world as shunning that tax breaks and the flow of money into these organizations that have unhealthy goals for society or their members or, yeah, like in this case, like you have to buy these books, you have to pay it. You have to put all your time into this thing or your money into this program. They shouldn't be getting tax incentives if they have been found guilty of crimes that already exist in our nations or states. Yeah. In the case of both of these religions, we shouldn't say like, oh, it's a religious issue. Like let them do whatever they want. There's slaves there. We can't exist with slavery in our country. There's people dying because of this. We like death isn't an acceptable result of
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  a religious group. Yeah, but it seems like for some people, the slavery issue is always only about the American Civil War and Lincoln being killed so people didn't get the reparations to the 40 acres and the mule they were supposed to get. So now they want to steal money from those who never held slaves to give to people who never were slaves. It again comes down to the money
SCOTT HOMAN:  scam, it seems. I would like if we actually dealt with actual slavery that's existing right now. It's going all over the place still, but it's a huge issue right now.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  You won't get a peep out of them about that. No, it's about because money. Yeah, cash, cash. And I say that about it. I was born and raised Catholic, but this is not a Catholic show. Yeah. I know you gotta keep it set to you. That's great. But as my friend Pastor Rick says, I'm definitely not your average Catholic. In fact, I call Francis the nincompop because he's more interested in worldly communism than Christ in Catholicism. But I don't care if it's a Catholic Presbyterian Lutheran, a Presbyterian, whatever, whatever, whatever, your flavor of church, a lot of them have become humanist clubs and all about say whatever, whether it's biblical or not, to keep sandies and the pews and the money coming in. So to have your relationship with Christ doesn't require that building with the steeple on it.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Yeah, I mean, I think just with any cult, if there's a money angle, then it's already poorly incentivized to be correct. So the fact that these churches operate the same way, like, oh, as long as the money's flowing and the pews are full and the money's flowing, then we know it's working well. We'll say whatever it takes to keep that happening. That's actually not necessarily optimized to give you truth because it's about money. Yeah. You can't do both. Yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  And there could be cultish off springs of any sect and any religion like there are certain in Islamic faith, certain Shia, some would say cults that believe they are to hasten Armageddon. Well, that was also on Shrinh Yoko, who I discuss in my terror strikes book, a Christian off spring cult that believed, hey, we can engage in terrorism because he's sending the day of Christ's return is a good thing. And nowhere in the Bible does it say so evil, be complicit in evil for that supposed end good.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Yeah, I grew up in a tomb say cult in the films about that. So I'm kind of immune now to we need Jesus to come back and murder everyone as a solution to our world's problems. If someone's saying that, I think that you should just walk away. Maybe you run.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yes. We you shall be known by your fruits and you must sow to reap. Yeah, I said it right that lot of times I get it backwards. But if you aren't so good, you're complicit in the evil I always say.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Yeah. Yeah, if anything, how does this go? I feel that Christianity in general, well, religion in general, let's not say Christianity, religion in general has a long history of getting really good people to do things that would be objectively harmful to others. And ultimately, in my life, I feel like, as long as there are no victims, you can do and believe whatever you want. But as soon as you have victims, if people are getting hurt in some way, taking advantage of or physically hurt, mentally hurt emotionally, like we have victims and it's not acceptable. A really good model of getting great people to do things. Yeah.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yes. Good could come from it. Bad could come from our entire nation. The hence the name, Christitutionalist politics, Constitution, as Adam said, made for a moral people and our Judeo Christian foundations of based on biblical free will, but my free will and my rights and at your nose, I can't punch you in the face just because I feel like it.
SCOTT HOMAN:  That's a good line to draw. Yeah. I may want to, but I have to get a lawyer. Yeah. We have to talk about it. Yeah. Well, that's a whole
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  legal ease and lawfare out of control has brought us a lot of down the path away from where we were so long ago and why we have so many, like everything's got to have a warning label on it to protect the stupid from themselves. And yeah, that's something to try to hand. That's true. Yeah. At any rate, indeed, what drew me to you was in your bio on full disclosure matchmaker FM. That's a site where podcasters and guests can manage to come across each other. It talked about escaping cults. So I felt that indeed an important discussion to have on the show. However, someone wants to define cult, but I think you and I agree and where we draw that line. If people are literally being held behind barbed wire fences and gates, it's a cult. You're not there if you're
SCOTT HOMAN:  free will. Yeah. It is a great, the bite model. Well, first of all, most of the cult experts that are around today, they're still active. Stephen has been being one, Jan Yololich, another one. Thought of their work is based off of how the communists under Mao, the lift into eight, it's called. So if you want to look into lift into eight, that's kind of like a great source material for how to control the minds of people and a nation. And then like, well, Stephen has been kind of simplified things on a bite model, B.I.T.E. So behavior control, information control, thought control and emotion control. So those four, if you have a group that's doing that, it doesn't need to be religion, it could be political, it could be, it could be the bake sale, it could be your company where you work at. If people are controlling, another one is bounded choice, which is Jan Yololich's kind of thesis is about having, you have fourth elements, and one of them is a charismatic leader, it could be a group of leaders that have the connection to God, a transcendent belief system that you are part of something special, or you will attain something special if you continue on this path. And then usually, there's, I can't remember the other elements, but ultimately, they are not, you feel like you're making choices, but it's what the group has told you. Are you allowed around by the nose to that choice?
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. The illusion of a choice. You can drink the poison Kool-Aid or you could take the poison pill, the illusion of a choice, it's bad negatives to your health, either way you choose.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Right. In the case of my family and the Witness Underground topic of the Jehovah's Witnesses, the bounded choice of the active members who are the real victims here, have to make, is they're presented with you, if you want to live forever on Earth, which is what their version of heaven is, live forever on Earth as a human, you can't talk to your child or anyone who's left the religion or doesn't believe or has said something questioning the faith. If anyone says something, question the faith, you should fear them because if you talk to them, you're opening the door to something that could challenge your faith. And if, you know, obviously, like you said, outside, if your faith is so weak, like that's a signal, a red flag, right? They can't talk to because they will be killed by Jesus or God, however you want to look at that,
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  because they opened the door to communication with someone. But yeah, a whole lot of devout Jehovah's Witnesses have died. They're in cemeteries. They're not living forever on the Earth, right?
SCOTT HOMAN:  Actually, yeah. The last time I talked to my grandparents last few times, the one that just passed last week, I was like, so when you first joined the religion, you were really happy to say that because they read the book from the 1925 that said millions now living will never die. And it was like in the book, first page is like proof conclusive that millions now living will never die. We bring that book up in the film, but that hooked my grandparents in the 80s, early 90s. And I was like, so how do you feel about that now 2024? And that's a few months ago. And they're like, well, I'm pretty certain I'm going to die. It was like, okay, so you're updating your model. Like they hooked you 50 years ago with this idea. And you now you realize that it's not true. And everyone who's ever read that book is also dead. So you have to understand like if they're the direct connection to God, and that's what they wrote proof conclusive proof, actual proof, but they won't die. Join us. You won't die. Like everyone else who's ever come before has died. And every one of your peers is now dead. So okay, what do you believe now? Do you believe that they are the source of truth with proof conclusive about anything at all? I feel like at some point you kind of have to like, you know, question reality again, or yeah, update them
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  on. But as long as there are new, as Barnum said, a sucker born every minute, as long as there are replacements for those who leave through death that they were promised would never come, or leave for whatever other reasons, as long as there are new recruits, the cult and the money continues.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Keeps flowing. Yeah. Yeah. And they're one of the richest companies in New York City. They make like $50 billion a year off of their whole global network of about 8 million or so that they claim as members. And most of them are buying books. It's exactly the same model of Scientology. And it was exactly the same as the founder he sold the clothing company started a book publishing company. And that became a religion surprise surprise. You had to buy his book. And he kept on
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  new books sounds just like Ron L. Hubbard in Scientology. Yes. Actually, I met a guy when I first sort
SCOTT HOMAN:  of doing the I did a crowd fun for the movie back in 2018. And one guy who had left the religion, he went to MIT and then kind of questioned his faith. And then he ended up being a pretty big voice in the 80s and 90s against a religion. Alan Foyerbacher, who was sadly passed recently, but he invited me into his house. And I was living really close to him. And he has his basement. He said he spent over $125,000 to collect every single piece of literature that that religion has ever produced. You know, throughout over 100 since 1879 or something. He literally had the entire archive of everything. And he was like, he had another, it was the coolest thing in the world. He had this like bookshelf amongst the entire super library in his basement. They filled the whole basement. This one bookshelf, he's like, I figured out where the source material came from for all of their ideas. And he had this book of like, this is what was written in, you know, 1930. And then this person in the religion, the religious leader or this writing group copied and plagiarized all of this information and made it their own. But it was like super fringe, super right, super, like, like really crazy conspiracy theory thing. It's like that had been slammed publicly. But then like this religion's like, Oh, that's our idea. We want that idea. Like really? You want that
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  crazy idea? Throughout all history, all the religions, the Catholic church, the Easter Bunny for Easter, co-opted from the fertility gods, right? Yeah, as to make it part of that to try to in a way be inclusive and draw others in it. Yeah, dry in the present Christ was not born on December 25th. But you'll have people freak out if you dare deal in that reality, you know, but it's not what matters on Christmas day. What matters is the tradition and the why, the symbolism of why we are celebrating it, not the fact that it's technically not the correct day.
SCOTT HOMAN:  Yeah, actually, you ever watched that guy's back in the 90s? There's like three documentary part series. Familiar with it, but no, get in watch. So in heretic to bring back to your plug of that great movie that he entered, he brings the young women into this room, which has all these paintings of art with Krishna, with Egyptian Horace with and he's like all of these different deities and faith groups. How the similarities, yeah, was, you know, he was killed by the state and dead for three days, ascended to heaven. He was also born a virgin and just like all these kind of mythical elements to it that are similar to the Jesus story. And I haven't read the Jefferson Bible, but as I understand it, it's like all the non supernatural elements of the Bible is like the president of the United States, like made a Bible that didn't have all the supernatural stuff in it. It's like, well, what is what did Jesus actually say of value that didn't relate to these 17 other religions that are just copied from them? I wish I found interesting. And this kind of stuff is all taught in theology school. Like I've talked to lots of different ministers and priests who who this is like 101 Christianity, like, hey, this is what was borrowed from the Babylonians. This is what was borrowed from the Canaanites. This is what was borrowed from the Egyptians. This is what this is similar to, you know, the Krishna's and in like, people might bring this up, but like ultimately their role isn't to teach like deep history and philosophy that's deeper than like the surface level stuff. Their job is to like make sure that people have their emotions cared for when someone's born or dies in their family and makes them comforts them in the time of need and makes them feel like they're belong and they're part of a community. So their mental health is like has like a cat, a net to land in if they're going through a hard time. Like that is still the value of religion in my opinion. And it's it bothers me that no one's figured out how to do that outside of the religion model. So it still exists because it actually provides really important value to society in those times of great need that we still like no one
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  really knows what happens in the transition from death. Well, oh, yeah, since we had technical difficulties today at the beginning, I don't remember exactly when we started to know where to really end it. So I do want to start wrapping it up. Okay, sorry. But before we get to the full end wrap up, is there anything else we've not discussed that you'd like to put out there
SCOTT HOMAN:  before we indeed conclude? Well, yeah, to go back to Witness Underground, it's it took me is a life's work. I've got 10 years of interviewing people about they're leaving a religious group, specifically the Jehovah's Witnesses in most cases, but that turned into this movie that became my greatest life's work at this point. And I spent six years trying to get this social impact to fill them out into the world that isn't so much about being anti religious. It's really about helping people understand what the Jehovah's Witnesses really are, how they work in a very gentle and like neutral way that if you're an active member of that religion, you have family in it, it's not challenging to the religion. But it does show you some of the insidious elements of a cult. And I feel like it's something that the world doesn't understand. Most people just say, like, Oh, they don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays. And they're not really Christians. And that's like kind of where it ends. And we start there, you're right, those things are true. But there's so much more to it. And these ultimately, there's human rights, things that are going on. There's really abusive elements to this group, but not just this group. It's not just the Jehovah's Witnesses that are a problem. The film was invited to decult the cult awareness conference, the first of its kind in the world, and at that conference. And that's why I'm in New Zealand now, because well, first of all, it's awesome to stay here. I like it a lot. But that conference brought me here and about the film here. And it sold out as an international premiere. The film did nine film festivals before that. So it's like a great end cap, but the right kind of organization to recognize the film for its importance in the world. And I would love for you to go watch it, because it's not just a thing that I made, or thinking about my cool friends. It's actually about processing trauma using art and the value that that has to keep people from dying by suicide, or to actually discuss to open up the door to talk about trauma, because we all experience it. Humans have a chemical and emotional maximum that you can hit, whether it's moving to a new apartment, or someone dying, or having a worldview shift. Like the film discusses where you realize that what you've been taught isn't quite right, or it's wildly different than reality. Or the people behind it are poorly incentivized to actually be honest with you, or abuse and control you. So we can all be susceptible to that. It's not just like, oh, some weirdos are born into a weird group. It sucks to be them. It's like, no, these are, we humanize them. You get to connect with them through music and their story. And you also might be in something, or it'd be worth questioning reality again, even if you didn't ever do that,
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  or you haven't done that for a long time. Yeah, what is real? Yeah, and then this show, I don't, like I say, it's not a Catholic show or a Baptist show or a Baptist show or a show or a business show, or a whatever, whatever, whatever. I always say, Satan wins if we are at each other. If we can focus, I don't want this show to necessarily challenge someone who may be happy as a Jehovah Witness. So they've probably not made it to this point in this episode, if they are. But if you are in your there, again, if we can remember to focus and stay Christ centric, and be together as brothers and sisters on that, then moving towards something positive, that's good. It's Satan wins when we're at each other's throats. And that's even true of the other religions, right? My terrorist strikes book is not Islamophobic. It's not, you know, all Muslims are terrorists or terrorists sympathize. Yeah, it's not that like I said, the Omshrine Yoko Christian cult is in there, too. There's good and bad in all these things. And if we could focus on the things we could come together on, it would be a better world. I'm totally with you. Like division,
SCOTT HOMAN:  dividing communities, making you feel separate or other from a different group is actually super insidious in society. I appreciate that that's your goal and how you see the world.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Yeah. So website where people can reach out to you. Yeah, witness underground.com. I also,
SCOTT HOMAN:  my film production company has been in Ireland, films, so you can Google that. There's a bit on film.com and have another film out there. If you want to check out music scene in Vietnam, uniting people from many, many different cultures together through music. That one's called
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Hanoi mixtape at hanoi mixtape.com. Interesting. I like that concept. But of course, what immediately
SCOTT HOMAN:  comes to mind is good. Right? Yeah. I grew up with Vietnam War refugees and veterans who worked with the CIA in Wisconsin. A lot of the Hmong people from the Himalayas, the Lohamalayas. And so I just deep interest to go there and see what it's all about. I mean, in my band, when I was an active Jehovah's Witness, my band member, primary band member was a among, child of among refugees. And I was always curious about their culture. I ate their food and got to know them a bit. And so I was drawn to go check it out. I ended up living there for five years and got really embedded in the music and art scene there and made a film about it with my Vietnamese friends. Because I feel like I had to go figure out why is everything I have to sign before I do my taxes or my, I get a new job is about like, there's something in there about the Vietnam War. It's I had a really big impact on American culture. And a big topic for like resistance to the authoritarianism of the state with the draft and whatnot. And like, do we actually want to fight communism? Is that actually like, why is the capital system so against this? Is it really such a problem? Or maybe there's something valuable there? Maybe we should have a balance like Europe does where they have state socialism and provide
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  healthcare and show dignity to our society. We already do we have social security as a socialist construct. Right. But we pay into it. Therefore, we are entitled to it, but giving it away to everyone who hasn't earned it, the communist model, then cloud and pivot bankrupt. But that's a whole other topic. Yeah. So thank you, Scott. I wanted to see that first person. You know,
SCOTT HOMAN:  it's still communist military controlled states. I was really interesting to live underneath a communist regime and actually side point growing up in the Jehovah's Witnesses felt a lot like a communist state like it's a very Orwellian. So like for me, I was like, this is actually normal for me. Oh, there's police walking around watching everything I do. Yeah. And they're wearing normal clothes. They're secret. Like I grew up in that scenario. Josephine's is actually super commie.
JOSEPH M LENARD (HOST):  Table topic for the next time we hang out. Yeah. All right. Thank you, Scott. Home one for step. Bye. Take care. God bless. Take care. See you.



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BONUS MATERIAL BELOW from:  TheLibertyBeacon "Music, Tv, and yes more Movies" article   [See original piece at: https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/music-tv-politics/ , for referenced links, images, and embedded videos.]





Music, TV, & Politics…

A few weeks back I had a “Lets go to the Lobby for Snacks and Politics” piece and its follow-up “Movies, Snacks, Politics, part 2” so makes sense – lets talk briefly about Music and TV…

But first a brief reprise about Movies – I hope you all caught “They Live” 35th Anniversary this year (while showing in many Theaters September 2023) and if not at Theaters please rent or stream it after you read this. Reminder: “They Live” an early John Carpenter (Writer/Director) piece where he dared to go down ChristiTutionalist Politics line before I coined the term and “Aliens” (the E.T. variety) as stand-in for the #DeepState always moving and manipulating behind scenes. Human-nature of those willing to go-along-to-get-along to Cash in for themselves. The 15-minute (minor exaggeration) I hinted at in the Movies pieces is great metaphorical outline for the verbal back-and-forth we often have with DUMBocrats to get them to see Reality!


VIDEO (3m 08s): Jason Aldean - Try That In A Small Town (Official Music Video):
https://youtu.be/b1_RKu-ESCY    
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/b1_RKu-ESCY" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Music:


#IStandWithJasonAldean (and, yes, too Oliver Anthony)
CMT (Country Music Television) crumbles to Cancel Culture, pulls “Try that in a Small Town” Video. And what my book (Terror Strikes: Coming Soon to a City Near You) about, not just Foreign Terrorists but USA Leftist Terrorism within & destruction of Western-Culture (as whole, not just US). #JasonAldean #BoycottCMT

I tack this on here, as Patriots in good Independent Studios or Patriotic Producers/Directors need to assure this Song gets on the Soundtrack of their PRO-AMERICA Movies as many times/places as possible!! 

Lastly, I know this is OLD NEWS to a degree and you are well aware and likely heard this story for several weeks already via FOXNEWS, NEWSMAX, OAN, and other outlets (including the ridiculous attempts by Left #ENEMEdia to make this somehow a Racist song calling for violence when the Writers (no, not Jason) and he (Jason) indeed all on the same page as to why they wrote it and why he wanted to Record it. AN ANTI-CRIME and ANTI-VIOLENCE piece, but if/when push comes to shove that we do have a Right to Defend ourselves from it. To protect and prevent our Communities being Arsoned to the ground by ANTIFA and #BlackLyingMarxist Hitlerian Brown-Shirt thugs.

Only the Left and their constant Race-baiting have the gall to say scenes (that show people of ALL RACES) is somehow Racist as an indictment of Black people? Who are the Racists? They are, if they say crime automatically equals Black people! Meanwhile scuttling #BidenCrimeFamily investigations and still creating major reach (stretching beyond all credulity of those Laws intent) on Statutes to try to charge POTUS45/Trump! Spare us the “What about the Lynching that took place at that Courthouse a hundred years ago” manure that no-one knew about until the Leftists #ENEMEdia desperate for a Talking-Point managed to dig up that History. I guess the Hannah Montana and the Christmas Movie filmed there are now also Racist (just like they tried to deem Bing Crosby’s “White Christmas” as somehow Racist). When are Black Americans going to wake up to this pathetic and desperate Race-baiting?!?! Whom, in Poll after Poll show they want more police protection from the runaway and rampant Crime happening due to FASCICRATS weak-on-Crime and other failing policies!!!

Thank you to all that emailed or called CMT or Cable Companies that carry CMT and let them know they would like CMT pulled from their line-up as money will be the only thing they understand. As discussed in the BIDENomics pieces they chase the Woke ESG pennies, we must make then suffer huge dollar loses until they learn to stop pandering to the Cancel Culture manure.

A friend of mine posted a Breitbart article titled “Woke Maren Morris Announces She’s Leaving Country Music: ‘Misogynistic & Racist & Homophobic & Transphobic’” (no, not gonna link it) that I would talk about but all our “kind” reactions (here are those) were “WHO?”  And some “less than polite” responses too (including a few snide ones from yours truly). LOL




VIDEO (2m 24s): Adam-12 and Emergency! Crossovers:
https://youtu.be/HIJHcgS7R7g     
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HIJHcgS7R7g" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Television:

That’s now Movies, Music, but what about TV? May as well take a pot-shot at that too?!?!  I had for decades hoped we’d get a reboot of “The Streets of San Francisco;” like Hawaii Five-O was, and Magnum P.I. was; and while I liked those originals (I did not tune-in for those reboots) but that was long before Newsome, Piglosi, others, have completely destroyed it over these last couple of decades. So, maybe best we can hope for is reboot of Adam-12; though that was set in L.A. which has equally degraded into one of Dante’s layers of Hell, but maybe could be reset into a different City; as a method of bringing traditional values and BACK THE BLUE back; as opposed to all the Trash we’re getting these days (like, sadly, the reboot of Quantum Leap went all WOKE)?!?!?


Some final thoughts:

Now after three-parts total of/for “Movies and Politics (Music and TV tacked on in part 3)” I could go on forever, and probably no surprise to anyone that is a regular reader of mine that at some time in near future I would have a part three (more on Movies, and to pivot to Music and TV) as I now have! 


Follow-up to the piece a few weeks back discussion of one of my all-time favorite Directors/Producers Roland Emmerich (and the part 2 “Movies, Snacks, Politics” piece): Many know Toby and/or Noah Emmerich, two of the people involved in/with the great Movie CELLULAR (with Noah Emmerich*, Chris Evans, Jason Statham, William H. Macy, Kim Bassinger, more) I just rented (via my DISHnetwork OnDemand feature (sign-up with my VCD0026116345 referral code for discounts)) to watch again as it is an A+ (remember, when that film came out was just at the time of proliferation of Cell phones with advanced features and therefore absolute genius script at that time). A good “temporary escape from Politics film.” From GOOGLE (about Noah): On television, the native New Yorker was a series regular on BACKWASH and played the despondent Dr. Edwin Jenner in the two-part Season 1 finale of THE WALKING DEAD. Emmerich's brother is film producer Toby Emmerich, but they are not, Emmerich explains, related to Director/Producer Roland Emmerich. 

The Emmerich lines via DuckDuckGo (here).

Gasp, can you believe it? YES, you’ve reached the end of this article already! LOL Hey, gotta poke fun at ourselves if we are to be able to laugh at others. I am indeed trying to SCALE BACK the length of my pieces! 😊 



VIDEO (33m 32s): ChristiTutionalist (S1E5) SNEAK PEEK @ Sat 7/22 "Let's go to the Lobby, for Snacks & Politics" (the corresponding part 1 of this series) Show:
https://youtu.be/rOeNv_ZT9bg?si=nXLXMB_FMpQInTaE      
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rOeNv_ZT9bg?si=nXLXMB_FMpQInTaE" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>
[Part 2 Behind-The-Scenes Sneak-peek Video]

Check out this article’s corresponding ChristiTutionalist Politics episodes S1E15.







BONUS MATERIAL ABOVE from:  TheLibertyBeacon "Music, Tv, and yes more Movies" article   [See original piece at: https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/music-tv-politics/ , for referenced links, images, and embedded videos.]