ChristiTutionalist Politics | Christian Perspectives on Constitutional Issues

CTP (S3EDecSpecial5) Justice, Mercy, And The Hard Cases

• Joseph M. Lenard | Christian Activist & Author in Politics • Season 3

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CTP (S3EDecSpecial5) Justice, Mercy, And The Hard Cases
Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond  
We push past talking points to ask what real justice looks like when safety, mercy, and faith collide. Matt Melvin shares a personal story of missed mental health help, prison, and renewal, while we debate three strikes, gun enforcement, elite immunity, and the moral stakes of accountability.
• tailored three-strikes for violent offenses
• why plea deals drop gun charges and what it costs
• faith’s role in distinguishing mercy from enabling harm
• mental health courts and missed diversions
• wrongful convictions, incentives, and quotas
• elite immunity, term limits, and public trust
• practical reforms for safety and redemption
• Matt’s book and resources for contact
http://BulliedBehindBars.com   
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CTP Audios: https://tinyurl.com/CTPonBuzzsprout 
CTP Videos: https://tinyurl.com/JLDonBITCHUTE 
https://tinyurl.com/CTPgear  
https://tinyurl.com/JLenardDetroitGear  
https://tinyurl.com/BookPromotionViaFiverr  

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SPEAKER_01:

Hello everyone. A special introductory segment before getting into the episode. The remainder of December. Merry Christmas to all. And since I'll be using this opening through the rest of December, they will be Tuesday and Thursday drops here on out for December to help me get caught up with some interviews that I've got in the pile that have been recorded, waiting to be released to help with a backlog. I'm going to do two a week now, Tuesdays and Thursdays, the rest of December, as well as January and February. So in the background here, uh, audio only, you're not seeing it, obviously, says Merry Christmas to soldiers everywhere who can't be with their families, showing a group of soldiers with Santa hat and elf hats on. But anyway, or at any rate, right, the ongoing. Oh, I said right again. I found I'm gotten to the habit of saying, right? Right? I gotta watch that. I gotta stop that. Anyway, let's get on with an interview. Hello, welcome to another episode of Pristitutionalist Podcast. I am your host, Joseph M. Werner. That's L-E-N-A-R-D at the French. It's not it's wonderful down and oh. Thank you for tuning in. As Bram Noten used to say on his show. Let's get on with the show! Hello, everyone. Welcome to another Christitutionalist podcast. Joining me today is Matt Melman. I was just joking with him. A name I'll be able to pronounce, and now I screw it up, of course. I hit record and the mouth stops working. Matt Melvin. Welcome to the show, Matt.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for having me on the show.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, happy to do so. So, at any rate, I find that my audience will know that's an ongoing gag. You know, when you're an podcaster, you try to avoid the ahs and the ums. And I had the habit now of saying at any rate, so it's kind of an ongoing running gag as my segue. But I also found I'm saying right a lot, right? Am I right? Yeah, okay. So I gotta watch that bad habit. But anyway, so give us a little bit about your background first. Where were you born and raised? Where are you now? Some significant places you've been to in between, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

I was born in Lowell, Massachusetts. My parents made the unfortunate decision in 1988 to move up into Vermont. My dad got a job as a director at Franklin County Home Health, and we migrated north, and I've lived here ever since. It's very hard to meet people. People are very closed off, they're rude.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's like being in Manhattan.

SPEAKER_00:

Pretty much, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah, I've only been to Manhattan once, and indeed it the lives up the reputation of indeed most are standoffish, to put it politely, right? They're all kind of just caught in their own little hustle and bustle of what they got going on and try to blot out the rest of the world. It's like zombies wandering around. So you're saying it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_00:

It's the same way without seeing one person after another. I mean, you do have your space, that's the big difference. I mean, there's 600 thir 600,000 people in the entire state of Vermont. New Hampshire is 1.3 million people, and Vermont is a tad bigger than New Hampshire.

SPEAKER_01:

Which is far less than even crammed into New York City alone. And I'm consciously saying it this time, at any rate, moving along. Are you movie buff at all? I love Blues Brothers, and I love okay, because I was gonna bring up the movie Dave with Kevin Klein, if you ever saw that. And we're walking and we're walking, kind of uh at any rate and moving along thing. So, indeed, at any rate, let's just now kind of give you the floor and tell us your story. What is it that's burning in you to share that's bothering you, that people need to hear?

SPEAKER_00:

I want to share that the criminal justice system needs to be demolished and started over again in the private, handled by the private sector, because nothing the government does helps anybody. It always is over budget. And unlike a private organization, if you're over budget, you go out of business.

SPEAKER_01:

I hear you. Uh I have been on criminal justice reform, not the left version, though, where their idea of reform is hey, just let everybody out of prison. Uh that that doesn't solve it, that may solve the budget issue temporarily, but then crime quadruples. So you're certainly not saying that either.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely not. Violent offenders should never be let out, especially sex offenders. Sex offenders should be thrown in the Everglades, as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_01:

We got alligator Alcatraz, but that's a whole other temporary ice facility story uh going on there. I agree with you. Uh, one thing I believe we absolutely need back is three strikes legislation that the Biden administration and the Democrats uh actually uh initially uh passed under Bill Clinton, a Democrat, undone by Joe Biden, the Democrat. What is your position on three strikes?

SPEAKER_00:

I am in favor of favor for it, but only for violent offenses.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a start in my book. Absolutely. Uh is if any one of them, in my opinion, is a violent offense, the third strike, I think, is because if the first offense is violent, but the next two are not, there's still the violence propensity or chance in that history to weigh that they possibly, I don't want to say probably would re-offend in a violent fashion.

SPEAKER_00:

I totally agree. If somebody hits their partner, they the propensity for them to hit somebody else is far greater.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I'm willing to bet, but I'll I don't want to right do don't assume do this crazy thing called asking, right? Uh I it is my and I forgot where I was going with this. Oh, my position, I take it yours, but I asked this as a question. We see leftist prosecutors and DAs not only letting people out with the no cash bail failure, uh but also playing down gun offenses. We hear from the left every time there's an assault with a weapon, we need more gun laws, but they don't enforce the ones we already have. An offender may commit a crime with a gun, they plea away the gun offense that would lock them up longer, and they're right back out on the street. So the plea bargain of gun offenses on uh repeat uh reoffenders criminals would keep them in longer. Yes?

SPEAKER_00:

I believe that anyone who uses a gun should never be let out again. It's not the gun that is the problem, it is the person that has the gun. If you look at Chicago, they have some of the strictest gun laws in the world. However, they have more murders than any place else in the country. And the reason is because of a heavyweight individual named JB Pritzer, who has never had to work in his life. He comes from the Hyatt money, uh the Hyatt Hotels. His life is very different than everybody else. Joe, that is the issue. Our politicians are very rich, they're very well off, and they don't see the same reality that everybody else sees. That is the issue. Whether it's judges, lawyers, cops, they all live in a different bubble than everybody else. They're protected. If a prosecutor does something wrong in a case, they are covered under what's called sovereign immunity, which means they cannot be sued. Absolutely abysmal. And judges are protected in the same fashion.

SPEAKER_01:

Jumbo Fatsker, as I jokingly call them, uh ruling elitists. When the DNC came to town into state, he called out the National Guard to protect him, his buddies, his family, his friends, his donors. But the rest of you in Chicago and beyond to heck with you, National Guard for you, no. For him and his buddies, yes, to protect you, no. Double standards, hypocrisy, that ruling elitist mentality, he's far more important, you don't matter, attitude, yes, is what you're referring to.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. He has never had a real job, he's had always come from money, and he's always been in a position of power, whether it's as CEO of Hyatt Regency or whether it's as governor. And that brings up another point. Illinois is one of 13 states that does not have term limits on governors. Guess what? Vermont is another one. We have had Phil Scott in office since 2015. He has not issued one pardon while he's been in office. He has done nothing. He's a rhino, and he believes in pro-choice. Joe, you cannot be a Republican and be pro-choice.

SPEAKER_01:

Democrat or Republican, Christian show, to me, you can't be a real Christian and be pro-baby murder, right? I mean, some are willing to concede in the rarest of situations the life of the mother, but see Everett Coop had exposed that fallacy that his entire life he'd never seen a case where actually murdering the baby somehow preserves the life of the mother. But if we were to even give the exclusion of rape and incest, that would eliminate 99% of abortions, which are for uh for convenience. But it's it's impossible, it seems, to even get that. But I want to go back to your point about when we're talking about it, isn't the inanimate object's fault. The gun. The gun does not pull its own trigger, it's just a tool. As a Christian show, I like to joke and say maybe we should ban assault trumpets. Now, what do I mean by that? Obviously, I'm going back to Jericho, brought down the walls, right? God ordained wander around the city with the horns. And on the seventh day, sixth or seventh day, I'm I'm I it's not like I've got the Bible fully memorized or anything like that. I'm not perfect. I I have holes in my memory like everybody else. If we're to use the woke mindset, if it could just save one life, we should ban all guns. Okay, well, the descendants of Jericho who had members killed in that Jericho seas where the trumpets brought down the walls. Maybe we should ban assault trumpet. It's not the object. Cain killed Abel with a stone. David slew Goliath with a slone with the aid of a sling. It's not the object, yes?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Now, do you know that Goliath tried to kill David with five stones? Do you know they were all flat stones? Do you know what the five stones represent? Where are you going with that? Five Goliath had five brothers. A lot of people don't know that that is the significance. Every detail in the Bible, there is a lot of significance. Yeah, it's not coincidence. There is nothing in the Bible that is coincidental. It's not a mistake that Saul sinned and it took 15 years for Saul to be killed. God took Saul out. Why? Because Saul did not listen to God. He allowed the Amalekites, he he killed off most of the Amalekites, but yet he kept the leader. He took all the plunder and he kept the livestock. And I love it when he's confronted. And he says, Oh yeah, I got rid of that. And and the prophet, I believe it was Elisha? Elisha? I'm not Isaac. I think it was Isaac.

SPEAKER_01:

Again to my point.

SPEAKER_00:

Isaac was the one who's we're human.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we're human. Our memories are certainly not endemic, photographic, perfect. So we might get a little detail wrong, but the point of this show often is the proper context of it all, as you're talking about here. Not picking one minor point in another and ignoring all the other things that put it into context.

SPEAKER_00:

And when Saul was confronted by Isaac, he said, Oh, I I killed off the Amalekites. Isaac says, Well, how come I hear sheep bang uh buying and cows move? And yet Saul still continued to lie, even when he was confronted with the truth. God could have gotten rid of Saul immediately, but yet he gave him 15 years to repent. That is a merciful love to God. You think about how many, I think about how many times God told me to repent of the stealing, the dishonesty. And then I had a near-death experience in August 2015 where I was almost killed by an out-of-control driver. That was my wake-up call. If I didn't repent from my sins, God, I guarantee you would have taken me out.

SPEAKER_01:

Second chances, race, uh all that. And indeed, uh, but you raise an important point here to tie it back to the justice. God's justice is one thing. Like Matthew 7 is really condemned, not lest ye be condemned. There's more than just the seven words there, and there are 12 other biblical scriptural items that tell us to judge. Again, that whole context. And that is different than worldly human justice. Jesus, as told us by Matthew 5, 17, I am here to fulfill the scripture. I'm not here to replace the prophets or replace the law, and indeed turn the other cheek and grant grace and second chances, is the first preferred method. But he didn't supplant the entire Old Testament, Genesis, Leviticus, and Numbers that justify a worldly death penalty still apply, which takes us back to three strikes. If you're a serial killer, I have no problem putting you to death for those multiple deaths. If a you know multiple offense also uh in not all at one time or in secession, a death penalty can and still does apply, yes?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely, yeah. So Billy Graham spoke at Bill Clinton's inauguration just about when he had had the affair with Monica Lewinsky. And he said, right, God's job job is to judge, and our job is to love. And that is a challenge for all of us. If we saw how Jesus treated Judas at the Last Supper, he knew that Judas was going to betray him, but yet he treated Judas the same way he treated everybody else. And that's what we are called to do as Christians is to love. It's not that we condone the behavior, but we love the person. God came to, he loves the sinner, but he doesn't like the sin.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That doesn't mean we tolerate and allow criminals to keep re-offending. I I get what you're saying, right? Turn the other cheek, right? If we're talking the face, you've got one other cheek. Second chances, a chance at redemption. Everyone's entitled to a bad day and just doing something wrong out of desperation. But you uh As long as you want to reform and you want to repent to give that chance, I was going, where was I going about? Oh yeah, the turn the other cheek thing, right? It doesn't, Jesus never said continually be abused. He doesn't say that. That's not what we're taught. Right? If you're going to continue with your free will, continue to choose acts of evil, you will be punished on this planet for it. And final judgment, though, is for the Lord to determine your final fate. Yes, but that's why we have a criminal justice system on this planet. It's why we indeed God agrees with and allows. It's like the commandment, also. It's not thou shalt not kill. It is thou shalt not murder innocence. Exodus 22, 2 alone, a thief in the night dealt a fatal blow. You didn't murder. You killed, but you didn't murder. And why the death penalty from the Old Testament still applies. We can kill that person. We can put that person to death as part of justice and not be guilty of murdering innocents. And other examples in the Bible where killing is authorized, a major distinction.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. There are certain circumstances that killing is authorized, and there are certain circumstances that killing is not authorized.

SPEAKER_01:

Part of that is earthly justice, man's justice, as humane and Christian-like as we can be, but yet needing to keep order in this fallen world.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. We always need order.

SPEAKER_01:

So when you're saying justice reform, again, this crazy thing, don't assume ask. I think we're on the same page. We both, I think, would agree, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, that there are indeed some minor offenses we might be able to not look the other way, but not jail for, that turn the other cheek and chance at another chance and redemption. But if you re-offend, that goes back to two or three strikes, then we throw the book at you and we lock you away for a long time. So certain offenses we perhaps should go lighter on, but other offenses, like those who keep re-offending, we need to be much harder on. And it goes back to uh this predates Rudy Giuliani, but he's associated with the broken windows concept, right? When you catch somebody early for minor offenses, and you at least make them pay with 30 days in jail rather than slap on the wrist and go, ah, just please don't do it again. If you're weak on crime, they see you're weak on crime and they've got no reason to not re-offend, yes? Absolutely, yes. So criminal justice reform, I think again, we're on the same page. Some things, yes, we can be a little more lenient on, like uh first-time pot offenders, right? The libertarians are always screaming about that, and that's one I can agree with. The dog dealers that got the money, they're seizing the money, and they seem to be let off pretty easy. But there are people who are clearly caring for minor offenses, minor personal use that are getting locked away for, and there doesn't seem to be any common sense in any of that.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, the Republicans are the party of common sense.

SPEAKER_01:

Try to be, anyway. Not all of them, but try to be.

SPEAKER_00:

When I say criminal justice reform, I am specifically talking about mental health, people who have mental health needs. I was one that had I have Asperger's and I'm on the autism spectrum, but yet Judge Jeffrey Crawford and Bob Wolford both chose that decided that I didn't meet the criteria to go through the mental health court. If I was allowed to go through the mental health court and completed it successfully, we probably wouldn't be talking today because I wouldn't have a record.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it would be a very different conversation. I would hope we'd still be having the conversation. Yeah, it would indeed be very different. And yes, I agree with you. We most people are concerned. Let's, you know, I hate to do this. Some people say kind of BS, but I myself am indeed concerned you got mistreated. You kind of fell through a crack. You needed help, and help could have been made available, would have made a very different situation. I am worried, as are some others, those who try to use a mental health game, you know, plea insanity as a way to game the system. So there's it's whether there's trusted people, like you said, had you gotten the proper diagnosis and been referred to people who would have helped. Corruption is what I'm getting at here, I guess. How do we safeguard so people get the right diagnosis and help? And those who can be put into a mental health outcome situation and be reformed and helped through that aren't also abused and it's used as just another money laundering operation for politicians. Oh, so-and-so's got a quasi health agency. So a judge keeps funneling people to them because they're getting kickbacks. This is a fallen world, it's imperfect, it doesn't mean we don't try amidst known corruption. I make sense of that, all that. I made a mess cleaned it up.

SPEAKER_00:

It needs to be handled privately. It's just a disaster. You know, all of these people, whether it's the lawyers, the judges, the cops, they're all incentivized to get convictions. That is why more people in our country are in prison for because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. You know, there's these innocence projects that are going on throughout the country. We hear almost every day about an individual that was in prison for 40 years and he didn't do it. DNA.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And the problem is that these police officers want to close a case so they rush through and just try to find anybody and anybody so they can make their quota.

SPEAKER_01:

On the one hand, I want to agree. And on the other hand, I would say evidence shows otherwise, right? In certain cases, I'm in agreement with you, and I am a big supporter of the different innocence projects, because indeed, if someone is truly innocent, I don't want them locked up, right? The whole to kill a mockingbird, Atticus Finch kind of mentality, right? Innocence is innocence, guilt is guilt. We want to punish guilty. On the other hand, we've already talked about Soros-back DAs constantly letting people who are absolutely positively guilty of offenses being let right back out to re-offend. So they're incentivized to convict, maybe some places, but yet other places there's the incentive to just continue a revolving door. And I'm against federalizing everything, but short of one dictatorial kind of ruling on that, how do we fix the broken areas?

SPEAKER_00:

Hiring every person that's in office and starting over. If a CEO, if he doesn't do it, he or she doesn't do his job, they're gone. Government, you can make your own rules, you can show up when you want, and there's really no consequences. And then you get this lush retirement that nobody else gets.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I responded on the next door app. I don't remember if it was the Detroit Free Press or some other organization, reported on a bunch of retirements out of right, politicians retiring. That doesn't mean that then two years from now they don't run for something else, as you said. I say if our founders had a glimpse of the reality of today, they would have put term limits in the Constitution. They were brilliant in understanding human nature to a large degree, which is why we've got the system we've got and the protections we have and the safeguards. They still, though, unfortunately, tried to cling to the belief the better part of our nature would be in our politicians, and unfortunately not, right? There will always be some wanting to lord over others and want to make a career, career politicians is what we're talking about here. And I responded to on Next Door, the free press mutter, many are retiring. I'm good, great, left, right, Democrat, Republican. I don't care why they're going, just GTFO, right? STFU and GTFO, go away. You've been there too long. Go away.

SPEAKER_00:

Once somebody's been in a position for a long time, they get in comfort, they coast, and they don't do anything. Whether it's sales, whether it's government, people who have the best ideas are fresh people. They're trying to make a name for themselves, they're trying to build credibility. They're the innovators. Folks that have been doing the job for 40 plus years are just trying to get close to retirement. They're doing as little as possible.

SPEAKER_01:

We covered a lot of different ground. It can make for a bad show, but yet at the same time, it's what I pride myself in. Whatever the rabbit holes open up are where we go. I don't we don't do pre-interviews here. I don't send questions ahead. I don't research the guests a whole lot. I don't know. I don't want to know because I want to go with flow with the go, as I joked earlier, right? We just start a conversation and then we go where it goes. And if people want to reach out to you, do you have a website for them to do so?

SPEAKER_00:

One of my inspiration is Forbes Riley, Dr. Forbes Riley. And she always says, I don't have a website, but I have a website. It's bullybehindbars.com. Bullybehindbars.com is my website. My email address is bullybehindbars at gmail.com. You can find me on Instagram, bullybehind bars, x barsbullied. Facebook Matthew.melvin.5621.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So is it B-U-L-L-Y or B-U-L-L-I-E-D? B-U-L-L-I-E-D. Okay. Oh, yeah. Well I would wrap it up, but yeah, we didn't really get a chance to talk about the book. Go ahead and tell us about the book a little more.

SPEAKER_00:

I wrote my book the second time I was in prison. I went to 10 different institutions. I was put in solitary confinement a lot because the guards and the inmates were in cahoots. Inmates would lie to the guards. They would try to tell them that I tried to proposition them, then they would put me in solitary confinement. But the prison did not have my mind. They may have had my body, but they didn't have my mind. And that's really where I started doing my research: reading my Bible, praying, attending every Bible study. Because in prison, a lot of times they send in volunteers from cults like Jehovah's Witness, Christian Science, Scientology. So I was really able to sharpen my saw and get up to speed to where I need to be to be able to go out and administer the word every day. Available on Amazon.

SPEAKER_01:

Of course. Yes. And showing a copy here for those looking behind the scenes video, I get a reasonable amount of views and the bit shoot, but the show is primarily carried audio only across 25 plus platforms. So it is bulliedbehindbars.com. Thank you, Matt Melvin, for coming on. I encourage people, of course, to check out the site, check out the book, reach out to you if they want a further discussion.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much for having it, having me on. Merry Christmas.

SPEAKER_01:

Indeed, like with most guests, we could talk for three hours or three days, but then it would be too long. All right. Thank you all for tuning in. Take care. God bless. Love you all. Like and subscribe to Christitutionalist Politics Podcast and Share Episodes. We need your help. Thank you for having tuned in to another Christitutionalist podcast show. I really appreciate that you stop by. Again, please like, share, subscribe. We need you to help spread the constitutionalist movement. Thank you again. Take care. God bless. Love you all.

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Joseph M Lenard

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