CTP (S3EMarSpecial2) War And The Soul

CTP (S3EMarSpecial2) War And The Soul
Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond   
We sit with Dr. Edward Tick to examine war’s invisible wounds and why true homecoming requires more than treatment codes. Stories from Vietnam, Greece, scripture, and a lifetime with veterans reveal how cultures can prevent moral injury and restore meaning.
• defining post‑traumatic soul distress and social disorder
• why Vietnam reports less PTSD and what they do differently
• elder warriors, rites of return, and communal healing
• draft lottery, preventive war, and moral injury to trust
• Greek and biblical lessons on hubris, justice, self‑defense
• moving from combatant to elder protector in civilian life
• practical steps for listening, ritual, and mentorship
• resources: War and the Soul and Warriors Return by Edward Tick
• where to find Edward: edwardtick.com
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A Short Story: A Lasting Legacy? book Trailer

Transcript

Midweek Format And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Special segment for February and March midweek twice. Normally Saturday months and normally a guest appearance on a Wednesday. February and March two a week, Tuesday and Thursdays, in order to get caught up on some interviews that have been stacking up. Enjoy. Joining me today is Edward Tick, author of War and the Soul, to whom I responded, bingo, the heart, the mind, the body, the soul, all can be harmed and broken. And I really wanted to have this guest on because people have said he really gets under your skin. Get it? I can't pass the main pond good fun. I'm looking good.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

I've been hearing it for 75 years, brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

No, no, don't I'm not the first. I won't be the last to make that joke, yes?

unknown 1:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Welcome to the show, Edward. How are you doing today? Thank you. I'm honored to be with you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for the important education to the public that you do with your show.

Pilgrimages To Greece And Vietnam

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Um I try anyway. And I love for those viewing on the behind-the-scenes videos as opposed to the 25 plus audio platforms or reading a transcript. I love your background. Is that an actual photo from somewhere near you?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Uh yes, that is a photo from the small Greek island of Poros, P-O-R-O-S. I'm going next week. Uh I lead pilgrimages to Greece every year. I also lead pilgrimages to Vietnam. Um in Vietnam, of course, many of the travelers are veterans in Greece. Sometimes uh veterans that warriors come as well, and sometimes they lead warrior journeys only to Greece to use the ancient Greek warrior tradition for our healing. So, what you're seeing behind me is a mountaintop, a view of a sanctuary of the sea god Poseidon on the small Greek island. We travel there, we use this island and other um sacred areas nearby, including and especially those connected with ancient warfare, to study and understand the ancient Greek tradition and how we can use it today. So I'm on this island a whole lot, and literally I'll be there next week with uh uh with uh with eight travelers. Uh three of them are veterans, and one of them is uh an orphan of uh Vietnam Combat Veterans.

Early Life Shaped By War Trauma

SPEAKER_00 3:31

So for behind the scenes, today is Thursday, February the 26th. We're recording this. I don't know exactly yet when it will air. Of course, we will remain in communication via pod match system that we found each other on. But let's back this train up, right? Put it in reverse, beep, beep, beep, and go to the where were you born and raised, where are you now? Significant places, although you've touched on a few already, you've been in between and that sort of stuff. Sure. Uh thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

I'll try to keep that short so we can get to the more delicious material that we need to uh share today. All right, so I was born in the Bronx, and that's and this is my real accent. Yeah. Born in the Bronx in 1951. Um, and my community in the Bronx was lots and lots of World War II veterans, of course, and refugees from Europe, uh, from World War I and World War II, and escaping Eastern Europe and the Holocaust and the programs and all that. So I was uh exposed to war trauma from the beginning of my life. My father is a veteran, he wasn't overseas, but he had PTSD from his parents who escaped Russia and Poland, uh, and from his military service. And my godfather, who lives right around the corner from us in the Bronx, uh, was my mother's only brother, an older sibling, who was a combat medic at the Battle of the Bulge. And he did not have what we call PTSD today.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

He had shell shock.

Draft Lottery, Service, And Moral Injury

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah, he had shell shock. He talked a little shook like this his whole life. So he came home whole in body, but extremely wounded in mind and heart and spirit. And I absorbed that energy. He never told me his stories, but standing next to him, I got it. Right. So fast forward to um we moved from the Bronx to Queens, and uh, and then I was in high school and then college during the Vietnam War. I believe in universal service of some kind. We needed cultures who have universal service, they're giving their youth rights of passage, and the youth are giving back to the culture for all they received. So I wanted to serve, but honestly, I looked really closely at the politics and I did not believe in or agree with the Vietnam War. So I began protesting at age 15 in high school, but not protesting the veterans, protesting that our country was there. Uh all right, then I'm in college. I went to college in 1968, the height of the Vietnam War. My first year I had uh a student deferment. And then for us old guys, like you and me, um uh we had the uh the deferments were done away with, and then the lottery system was instituted for who gets drafted. And for those who don't know, the government pulled birthdays out of a hat, and when they pulled your birthday, you got that number. So everybody was really frightened. Uh, I went to college a year early, so I was actually in the second lottery. If I was in the first lottery, I got number my birthday got number two. My mother heard that and literally she fainted. She almost had a heart attack. She thought I was off for Vietnam. Uh in the second lottery, I got a high number, 244. Oh my god, suddenly I don't have to do anything. One third of our generation is going to war. One third, maybe, depends how bad it is. And one third, scot-free, nothing. We're going to talk about moral injury today. That is a moral injury to the nation. The number of non-veterans who have told our vets, oh, I should have been with you next to you in Vietnam. I was against it before, but there's something missing in me, and I have some kind of injury, a missing part of me because I didn't serve. That's we all have that. And that's not the way to get out of service through a lottery system. It's horrible.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

In a way that's almost a survivor's guilt.

Becoming A War Trauma Healer

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Uh yes, right. Yes, yes, yes. So I guess we could say I was loaded. I wanted to give some service like my uncle at the bulge. I would have been willing to serve as a medic. I had determined that if I was drafted, I was gonna volunteer to be a medic. So I could still keep my values and try to bring some hope and healing in the combat zone. I didn't have to do that. All right. So I got my master's degree in psychology in 1975. I moved to a small town in the Hudson Valley in New York State, and I was invited into a medical practice as a therapist. And what do you know? This is 1975, 6-7. PTSD was not even a diagnosis until 1980. That started to come into my practice, including a friend from high school who didn't remember, didn't know he was coming to see an old softball buddy. He just walked into the office and he looked like hell. And I just cleared my eyes. I said, Oh my god, oh my god, is that you, Scott? And he shook his eyes and he said, Hey, what are you doing here? How did life put us together? I said, Scott, you look like a wreck. Last time we were together, we were playing softball, and you were great, and we had the same kind of background. What happened? And he just shook his head and he said, Nom man, nom, the war did this to me. So I was exposed from the beginning of the homecoming, and I've been working with our veterans since then. Uh I have lots of stories to share about from working with Vietnam veterans to working with all veterans, but briefly for now, through a lot of introspection, a lot of spiritual work, a lot of prayer and meditation, uh, I my identity evolved from a psychotherapist for Vietnam veterans to a war trauma healer for all survivors of all veterans, no matter where I meet them, where I run into them. So that continues to this day. So I've worked with American vets from the Spanish Civil War to today, and I work overseas. Uh, one of my books, Warriors Return, is translated into both Russian and Ukrainian, and I'm working by Zoom with their military healers to try to help them learn how to address the trauma even as it's happening.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

And uh I've led yeah, if you can intercede early, if you can you it's not something you can really, I dare say, prepare for, but anything you at least remotely entertain ahead and think about and know can be an issue. You can get your head around it a little easier later, yes?

Why Vietnam Has Less PTSD

Preparing The Soul For Combat

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Yes, for sure, my friend. And I would even I would push that a little harder. There are ways we can better prepare our people for military and combat service. There are ways other countries do it much better than us. Much better. So, for example, this is shocking, and it's true. So I've led 19 reconciliation and healing journeys to Vietnam. I began in 2000 and I only stopped when the pandemic stopped all of us. And I've I've written about this extensively. There's some articles, there's a chapter in my book, Warriors Return. I have a book of poetry about the trips to Vietnam. While we in the United States tragically have epidemic levels of PTSD and moral injury, in Vietnam, where we would expect also epidemic levels because the war was there and it was so violent and they had so many casualties, so much wreckage to the infrastructure and the environment, we would think, and Western psychology would say, of course, they have depression and anxiety and PTSD and nightmares. My friend, guess what? They don't they really don't have they have very, very little wartime PTSD, only extremely severe cases uh that may need hospitalization. But uh in Vietnam, because of their culture, because no offense to our country, but they were the defender, we were the aggressor, because they've been invaded by more powerful countries for 2,000 years, and they're used to struggling against the larger, more powerful invaders, and they've been studying warfare and the warrior tradition and using their spiritual practices for preparation before and support during and then healing after. So there's really, well, we have massive PTSD, but not much. Well, the war is hard word here, so we've got violence here, but from warfare, international warfare, there's not much damage here to our environmental infrastructure, but we have massive psychological and spiritual casualties. In Vietnam, it's exactly the reverse. Their people are really well, loving, forgiving, and they welcome us. Um, but they have severe damage still to their infrastructure and their environment and their DNA because of the Agent Orange. So some of the ways they prepare for literally for generations, they have been having elder veterans come into their schools, beginning in middle school, to talk to the children and teach them their history and teach them what it's like to go to war if they have to, and prepare them psychologically and spiritually for what they might have to experience. Many of our vets don't feel adequately prepared for the combat experience. Really, really well trained for how to fight, but not at all well trained for what's going to happen internally, what the inner experience of the war wounds are gonna be. And so a lot of our vets um they read with war literature. They they put really good books like um All Quiet on the Western Front into their knapsacks, and they they hump them overseas, and they're reading about the experience of war as they go into it and during it, so that helps them prepare psychologically and spiritually for what they have to experience. So this is just a few of the differences. Uh, we could go to Native Americans. The Native American tradition is a warrior tradition, and they trained their children, the boys, sometimes the girls, but especially the boys, from the beginning of their life in warrior skills and also in the ethics and the spirituality of warriorhood.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah, which is both good and bad. The the negative aspect of it is you you're perpetuating a culture of endless, never-ending fighting. But as you said, the good aspect of it is that at least if and when and where the fight comes, there's that forethought given to it.

Warrior Traditions And Homecoming

Preventive War And Trust In Leaders

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Right, yes. Forethought given to it, and also how should we say this? Forethought in preparation for the homecoming, which the Native American people do to an extraordinary degree. So can I I'll share a story. This demonstrates uh we were gonna talk about the the maybe mention the movie Sheepdog. I I I've been what yep, I wrote it down. Um yeah, you saw it, yes. I saw it, I saw it. Um I feel responsible to see to read everything I can and see every movie I can about the military and veteran experience. So I'm I'm good about that. And we can talk about it. So Sheepdog really is a very good movie, demonstrating how difficult and painful and confusing homecoming is, and that there aren't many people. There are some helpers, good therapists say you gotta do the work. Um uh, but there aren't that many helpers, and it emphasizes most people are not gonna understand what you went through. You're coming home to a civilian culture that doesn't get it. And more than anything else, I can cry when I say this. Our lawyers, more than anything else, just want us to get it. Get it, get it, get it, get what it did to me inside. Heal, hear me, really, heal me deeply. Don't just try to fix me and make me a civilian again. Get me. And let's tell all of our brothers and sisters who are listening, you can't become a civilian again. It's a one-way journey. Once a war, like the Marines say, once a marine, always a marine. Once a warrior, always a warrior. So how do I become a warrior in the civilian sector? Well, that's what other cultures did, and especially Native Americans, to an extraordinary degree. They expected the warriors to be warriors for life, to be elders to help and tend and guide and heal the younger warriors, to give all the return healing ceremonies for the younger warriors, and also to protect the culture from the danger you said about we don't want endless war. Warriors are for preservation and protection. And if they become aggressors and berserkers, that's actually a betrayal of the spiritual warrior ethos. So we need warriors for preservation and protection. We don't want them to be, we don't want them to create a warrior class that is involved in endless warfare. In Vietnam, we met with, he has since passed, but he was a wonderful man. An elder warrior, who we're what we're talking about. His name, he was known as Mr. Tiger. Um, Nguyen Tom Hall was his name. Scout son. He was at war in combat for 25 years against the Japanese during World War II, against the French during that war, and then against the Americans. He was peaceful and kind and loving. And he embraced all of our warriors, our veterans as his brothers. And one of our vets said, Well, do you know about PTSD? Do you have it here? And he said, No, we know about your wound in America, and our hearts are broken that you're still suffering. We're not anymore. So there's something very different about our cultures that we're okay when the war was here, but you're not. And we really want you to heal. So please keep coming to Vietnam to heal if you can't heal in America. Okay. So then one of the Marines said, Well then, Mr. Tiger, if you don't have PTSD here, how do we prevent it? What do we do? And he chuckled and he said, Oh, my brother, that's actually an easy question. To prevent PTSD, stay home. If your country is attacked, of course you have to, and your children have to defend you. And that's the correct, necessary use of warfare. If you're if your country wants to send you to you to send your children overseas for any reasons, they will have PTSD and moral injury or will wound their souls and they will come home damaged. So watch your politics and be really careful as responsible citizens and try to keep your country acting correctly.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Not to go too deep in the strategy, though. In a lot of respects, you don't want your home front to be where the war is, though. If you can prevent them from getting here by fighting them there, the philosophy is you're indeed saving, hopefully, the theory, you're saving lives and infrastructure and damage at home. Uh the whole over there concept. Yeah, meet them there so you don't have to fight them here. You completely reject that. You're saying it is better. It's a preference. It makes sense from the psychological aspect, from a destruction. Um to prevent a major war, to fight a minor war somewhere. You're you're not necessarily against that, but you understand the damage it does in other ways.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah, that that's an accurate statement and feedback about where I am standing. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah, so just to try to grow get my head around it and completely those in the audience.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Yeah. I'm with you to try to get our heads around the concept of preventive war. Okay. Our country and our younger warriors were told that Iraq and Afghanistan were preventive wars. Go over there because 9 11 is their fault and because they're coming here. Well, by uh countless numbers of our veterans feel betrayed by that because it wasn't true. Because when they got there, I expect you. Heard this too, and I'm not talking for everyone, but many, many veterans, when they got into the Middle East, they felt like uh oh, these are mercenary wars, and we're really here for the oil, for the land, for the riches this country has. I'm not really here to protect America. So, uh, the concept of preventive war is a really important one. You're right, and it's really, really difficult to evaluate it. And um this is hard, but it's true. We really utterly have to trust our leadership and that they're telling us the truth, and that we're really in danger, and that there aren't secret motives for using service.

Borders, Cartels, And Just War Questions

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Well, it is absolutely positively true that Afghanistan itself as a nation, the Taliban, even as leadership, didn't have the wherewithal, the abilities to pick up and come attack America. Same with Iraq, more or less, unless it's eventually like the threat of Iran if they get nuclear-tipped ICBMs, that's a whole other situation. But yeah, neither of those two nations obviously could attack the issue or the threat, the the concern always was they're harboring terrorists who do come here and attack us. So another movie, did you see the Ben Affleck movie Paycheck by chance? Oh, I didn't see that. I reckon that deals with the the whole psychological notion of preemptive war, and it it deals with like foreseeing the future, and the idea is that well, such and such is going to attack us, so we attack it first, and it deals in that whole theory and concept. It's uh it's kind of odd, but it brings up those psychological questions. Ben Affleck paycheck.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

I've written it down, I'll see it uh maybe tonight. Thank you. Okay. We do have a long history of quality movies about war and warfare and veterans and what they experience in combat and what they've how they struggle coming out.

Scripture, Ethics, And Self‑Defense

SPEAKER_00 24:41

And the other thing is like with the cartels and declaring them terrorists. Are are they well, some would say yes in our southern border? At times they've literally crossed and invaded us physically and shot people and killed people. But is the drug infiltration and all, especially with fentinal deaths, really is an act of war, or is it not? And do we then go to take them out, or we do not, or we just accept hundreds of thousands of people dying on a yearly basis over it? Those are really tough questions.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Uh, they're so I thank you for bringing them up here today because we're in the middle of chaos and crisis, because those are the tough questions we have now, and we have policies that may be reducing that damage.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

And um yeah, speaking of as we speak now, El Mencho was I joke on Twitter, El Mencho now El Slaughterdo or El Squash Do, you know, big tongue in cheek, but I not something I should joke about, but my lame OCD brain humor can't help but go there. And in a way, it's a defensive mechanism in my own head uh to help justify again. Well, he's been killing Americans, so why should I grieve for him? But we indeed do Christian show, we're to love even our enemies. So again, this is all difficult to, but the drug cartel thing, the other movie that comes to mind is the Clancy book turn movie, if you recall Clear and Present Danger, yeah, right now, but today we don't need any boots on the ground. We can GPS drone strike every single known cartel compound from the air and say, you clean up the mess that you allowed to happen there, but we had to act and take them out. But again, do we really want to do that to others? I would say no, but do we need to do that is the difficult question to answer if we're saving lives here but causing death and destruction. There again, the fight them there as opposed to here philosophy.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

And you and I are both uh moral and spiritual people, and the question that lingers always behind these questions is what would Jesus say?

SPEAKER_00 28:39

So for everything there is a season. The Bible even says there is time for war. Uh we are to love even our enemies, we are to turn the other cheek when and where as best we can, but turning the other cheek and giving grace doesn't mean always be a sucker and always allow yourself to be abused either. There is time to fight back.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yes, that's that's correct, and that's really important that our listeners know this. Um we can expand this a little bit. The sixth commandment in the Bible is not thou shalt not kill.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Thank you. I have several shows. It's thou shalt not murder innocent. Murder innocence. Exodus 22, 2 alone. Seathan the night dealt a fatal blow. You are not guilty of the sin of murdering innocence there. That is self-defense.

Hubris, Greek Wisdom, And War

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yes. Uh, and there's other explications in the Bible that help differentiate murder from killing, and uh the Bible also allows controversial today as well, but it allows um capital punishment. Oh, Genesis for some crimes.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Absolutely. Jesus, this is what bothers me about anti-Semitism. Jesus, born a Jew, raised a Jew, fulfilled the Jewish scriptures. I, as a Christian, is am really a messianic Jew. Jesus was a Jew. He became a rabbi under Turanic law at age 30, under the law. He began his ministry as a rabbi. Christianity today did not replace. The old testament did not, in some cases, said this is the new way. I have a show on that. Like turn the other cheek when and where you can, but don't always be abused. The old testament, an eye for an eye, can and does contextually still apply at times. It didn't replace the old. If you think the old testament was replaced, then you don't believe in the commandments anymore. That's old testament. That's there's a reason why they're in the Bible together, yes? Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yes. Um we're aligned with everything you just shared. Um now the Bible also is a wonderful textbook for studying about war, violence, what it does to humanity, and through the ages. So uh and also has so much wisdom for our concern for healing from war. So um there's so many ways we can go into this, but uh the Bible over and over and over counsels us on that to protect our souls and to behave in a way that is ethical and spiritual, even when we're uh in combative situations.

AI, Skynet, And Human Nature

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah, we are given free will to choose, to want to do good, and sometimes good people have to do bad things in order to preserve a way of life, uh, but also free will, some will choose evil, and it has to be confronted. I'm gonna go down a path that's kind of off topic here, but regarding the commandment, thou shalt not murder innocents. Also, it isn't pride that's the sin, it's hubris, it's pridefulness, hubris. I go in my CTP book four that's on uh uh Kindle exclusive, also touch on it in CTP three uh book. I should be proud of little Johnny hitting the walk-off home run at Little League. I should be proud of little Sally winning a ribbon in horse uh, you know, whatever, or all A's on a report card. Taking pride in a job well done at work is good. Yes. Hubris, where you go into the boss and demand all these other people are worthless. I'm the only one worth anything. Fire them all, quadruple my salary. That's the sin of hubris.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Yes, and I'm glad also that you made that clear and differentiated that for our audience. Um, hubris is an ancient Greek word. The ancient Greeks considered it to be the worst of all the sins, and they said uh in their definition that it is overweening pride that makes you think like you're uh as powerful as the gods.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Yeah. Yeah, hubris it indeed can be perceived as the worst because those who suffer it in their minds can justify anything for their own gratification, enrichment, whatever, whatever. So that makes sense. The Greek had that right in many respects.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

They sure did, they sure did, and they also they were at war most of the time, so they really understood war and the warrior traditions, and also about healing and bringing people home.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

And again, the war thing we are creating, we are part animal, part, you know. I I had the show with Leslie Hall on our animal side, our animal instinct. And we can't deny our animal side, and we can try to become more civilized, try to be better, more godlike, more Christ-like, better creatures, but to deny we're still animals deep down as an entity is avoiding that reality, and our warlike nature has been here forever and unfortunately likely will be here forever. Well, unless AI replaces the fall. Well, that that could be a war too. They might pass out, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Yeah, because there's no there's no soul, there's no conscience. Right. It can and will do anything because it doesn't have them the spiritual safeguards to limit.

War And The Soul: Core Thesis

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Which of course comes to mind the Cameron Terminator movie and series, but really Skynet, he didn't come up with that idea. There's a film from the 70s, another great film, uh Colossus, the Forbin Project. It's hard to find. I've got a couple copies that I bought off of Amazon while you could still get your hands on it. But Colossus, the Forbin Project was the front runner to the concept of AI conspiring and Skynet, where an American computer discovers a Russian computer and they demand to talk to each other and decide for humanity's sake, they're going to take over. So that's where Terminator all came from was Colossus the Foreman project of the 70s, way ahead of its time. AIDA too, another 70s, actually 1980s, a film Looker, Albert Finney, James Coburn, and Susan Day for singing, and later Al Pacino came out with Simone or Sim One, AI actors, Tilly Norwood, AI replacing people in movies. They humans don't have to act anymore. The AI can replace us, but the movie Looker from 1980, way ahead of its time, foresaw all of that long before the Simone movie did. So a lot, you know, our younger generations think, oh, they just thought of this. No. And that 80s and 70s stuff all come out of 50s and 60s sci-fi stuff, which comes from stuff even from the 1800s before it, and and back and back and back. Nothing new under the sun, as the saying goes. The technology may change, but the concepts we're still struggling with over and over.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yes, and apparently human nature doesn't change, even though the technology changes. So, as we're both affirming, as long as humanity is here, the animal, the human animal will be here, and we will always, always, always have to deal with it. So it's imperative that we develop our emotional, psychological, and spiritual dimensions in order to civilize the animal and keep it cooperative rather than devouring everything it can get on.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Well, the time has flown, and I like to keep shows around 30 minutes. I'm gonna extend us. We're gonna keep going. But I say that because I want to get to the primary book that I saw from you, and what prompted our discussion was War and the Soul. The motivation of that book and what that book does, and when it came out, that sort of thing.

Post‑Traumatic Soul And Social Distress

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Okay, thank you. All right, War and the Soul. The first story I tell in that book is about a Vietnam combat veteran who survived the siege of Queesan, which during the that war was a terrible four-month siege with many casualties on both sides. This is the very first counseling session I ever had with him. He was very nervous, and he walked into my room and looked around to make sure he was safe. And there were I think there was a circle of four chairs, and he sat in one of them and he was looking very nervous, and uh I said to him Um I can see how much the war hurt you and disturbed you, and we're here today to try to help you come home. So please tell me how things are with your soul. And he his eyes got wide, his face all kinds of expressions. I can see it now. This is like f God 40 years ago, and he said, My soul? My soul? My soul's gone, my soul fled. Then I tell the story at length in Yeah, it's hiding in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

It may have wanted to retreat, but you knew, you know, it's in there. We need to bring it back up again, yes? Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

And uh if your soul was really gone, you'd be dead.

unknown 41:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

So it's in there somewhere we want to discover it. But he told me in great detail his experience of being caught in a suicide charge by enemy soldiers and surrounded by the enemy. They overran his machine gun nest, and he was running with them with bullets flying around him and his enemies charging with him, and he said, That's when it happened. What happened? I felt my soul leave my body, he said. I felt it like rush out of my body and pull me up the hill by what he described an invisible umbilical cord of spiritual energy that pulled me up the hill and kept me safe through the charging enemy. So I got to the hill without a single scratch. And I should have been dead a thousand times over, but here I am.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

So he knew we have soul a divine intervention for whatever point, reason, future purpose, unknown at the time, and maybe still not known now.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Well, except that now I've been given the gift of surviving in life, and I want to do some good with it and gift back, and that's where our warriors evolve in a very beautiful way. So from that very early encounter with our veteran, I realized the soul wound is profound and deep and all pervasive, and since the soul uh includes everything we are, if the soul is wounded, every aspect of us is going to be wounded. Hippocrates, that ancient Greek physician who we call the father of modern medicine, he said 2,500 years ago all illness begins in the soul and eventually it accumulates and emerges in the body. And that's soul wounding in what we have. So, and many, many warriors like this one have told me stories of their experience of soul loss in combat, and they want reunification. So I have, and war in the soul is very much about this. I redefine post-traumatic stress disorder since we have the acronym, and everybody uses it. You sit in a coffee shop and you hear you know the college students talking about my PTSD.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Right, stress, stress, anxiety, there, yes, there is a place for that. It is a form of PTSD. Military PTSD is far different than civilian PTSD. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

And well, somebody who's been in combat as we tend to think of victim PTSD. There's also perpetrator PTSD.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

And survivor's guilt.

Healing Path: From Warrior To Elder

SPEAKER_01 44:25

All of that, yes. So I have re without throwing away post-traumatic stress disorder, it's useful. We need it. I've also redefined PTSD as post-traumatic soul distress. Soul distress. All of the symptoms that we have are the soul trying to communicate its pain and disp distress and grief and despair, uh, and all of its emotions when it can't express itself directly, or when people haven't listened, or when people have been given too many meds, but not been allowed to talk and tell their stories. There's a million reasons. But uh it will come out through the soul's wounds, it will come out through the mind and our behavior in the body when we don't give the soul ac uh enough loving uh attention and care. I also redefine the the acronym PTSD as post-traumatic social disorder. And the movie Sheepdog shows that really well. Uh I've come home, nobody understands me. Yeah, well, you're not the same person anymore. And they really don't understand, then they don't get it, and who you are now doesn't fit into the c society anymore. And we have to find a meeting ground for both of you. It is a social disorder. So So whenever we use more of our resources for destruction and healing, whenever we withhold resources from our warriors when they come home, whenever we don't give as much attention to homecoming and healing as we did to training and preparation and service wherever they go, we are in social disorder. Medicine has a concept that's called we hardly ever hear this. It's called a disease of adaptation. PTSD, as we know it, is a largely a disease of the veterans can't adapt to our culture as it is now and what they've come home to. And so a lot of the symptoms are from feeling neglected, betrayed, misunderstood, rejected, unlovable, unemployable, all that stuff. So their PTSD is in significant part a result of the inadequate homecoming. And again, this differs profoundly from many other cultures around the world, both past and present.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Yep. Well, again, the time has flown. I don't want to turn this into a three-hour session, although this could be a three-day session. But then it'll be way too long for anyone to pay attention to. So before I get to where people find you website and that sort of thing, any uh closing thoughts before we get to that last question?

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Oh gosh, yes, thank you. To all of our service people listening, welcome home. Amen. Welcome home. We're glad you got back.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Others did not, sadly. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

And the homecoming journey is long and difficult. And find people who really get it and will do the walk with you.

Scripture Study And Chaplaincy Work

SPEAKER_00 47:50

As you said, they may not get it. I the NHL, I used to play hockey. I never went professional or anything like that, but I watch a lot of NHL. And there were teams the last few years had embraced the awkward PSAs, right? I know something's different. I know something ain't right. I may not be able to understand it, but I'm here to listen. I'm here to try. At least be willing to try. And if I can't help you, know I am your brother or sister and will help you to find the help you need. Right. It's a suicide prevention message, but the same thing because Project 22, the PTSD, tends to drive a lot to suicidal thoughts. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Yes. So part of my final message is you can come home. There is healing, there is homecoming, and you can evolve into a better version of yourself. I, as I said earlier, we said earlier, warriorhood does not go away. Evolve yourself into an elder spiritual warrior that continues to give back in ways that are meaningful to you. And continue to create meaning, including out of your woundedness. You understand human conflict and challenge and suffering better than almost any of us. There's a place for you. We need your warrior wisdom. Yeah. So welcome home. Come home, stay on the healing journey, and bring your wisdom home for all of us. And you teach the rest of us. We'll get it if you talk to us and if we keep our hearts and minds open to what you're sharing.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Again, it goes back to free will. We have choice. We have choices. You have to choose, indeed, to want to evolve. You were something, you've become something else. You can still evolve into something else and bring the rest of us with you. I I earlier in February had a discussion with someone about Judas, and you might think, well, what does that have to do with it? Uh to your story about being kind of a miracle guided through it because God wasn't done with you yet. Judas was one thing, he temporarily became another as part of God's will. Uh-oh. I froze there. Can you still hear me? Okay, I'm back. All right. But Judas needed to betray Christ. It was part of God's plan for him to become the final blood sacrifice. And then Judas again evolved again beyond that. You have to look at Judas's whole life to understand his point, his purpose. He had free will. His free will was kind of co-opted temporarily to betray Christ because that had to be done. And then his free will was returned to him. Uh, kind of a convoluted story, but I think if anyone's gonna understand it, you understand what I'm getting at there. Oh, I do. Um and it's the choice you have a choice now to evolve on to not erase what you've been through, make it part of the new you.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Exactly, exactly. Do you by any chance know the very uh challenging and beautiful book by the Greek writer Nikos Kosensakis? He's famous for writing Zorba the Greek. People know that movie, okay? Right. He wrote a book, an extraordinary book I highly recommend to you, called The Last Temptation of Christ. Okay, uh that was a movie like 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yeah, also protested it. Part two is supposed to be in production and come out soon, too. But well, uh read the book.

Closing Blessing And Resources

SPEAKER_01 52:12

I'm suggesting the book. It's an incredible book, and to your point, in that interpretation, Jesus and Judas are best friends. They're best friends, and they know they each know that Judas has to betray him, and it's a necessary part of the story. And Judas has to say yes to that horrible fate.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Yes. And it's why Christ said on the cross, Father forgive them, they know what know not what they do. The Jewish leadership of the time were playing a role to protect their own earthly powers. It wasn't all Jews condemned Jesus to death, only a few. Most of Jesus' followers were Jewish. Some were non-religious, but we're Jewish. Again, we're messianic Jews. We're not some new, complete, solely different thing. You can't exist without the Torah. Christianity cannot exist without the Torah.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Yes, thank you. And another mystery from our tradition that really emphasizes the unity of good and evil that we human beings can't fully appreciate. Was we have the Lord, we have the God, and Satan was his favorite archangel, his best friend. And then Satan got the hubris and wanted to replace him, and that's when he fell. But this We're even back to hubris. I'm glad you tied that.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Good job. Great job.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Thank you, friend. Okay, well, um, the last thing I would say is that um my two books, War on the Soul and Warriors Return, are loaded, loaded, loaded with lessons from uh the Bible, the Old and New Testament, and our Judeo-Christian tradition, as well as other religious traditions, worldwide religious traditions, all bring brought to bear on how do we heal and restore the soul after conflict and trauma. And you have a website, yes. Ah, yes, it's just my name.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Um Edward Edwards, Edward Tick.com.com, okay, yeah. Uh could be like I've got terror strikes.info because terror strikes.book wasn't available yet. There's a bazillion different extensions nowadays and more to come, even. So you could be org or whatever, but it is Edward TickTic.com, and of course, post edit for those viewing behind the scenes on video. It'll be on a scroll at the bottom of the screen. But yes, Edward E D W A R D Tick T-I-C-K dot com for the benefit of the 25 plus audio platforms as well as the transcript. Thank you, Edward. It was a great discussion. We had to go longer again. We could go days, but there has to be an end.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Well, yeah, that's part of spiritual wisdom. Everything also, everything has its end, and our free will, it's not so easy. It's been delightful, but our free will has to also say yes, things have to end. So thank you, everyone. Bless you. I honor your work and what we shared.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

And yeah, I just had another show in February. I had another guest that was supposed to come on, talk about trauma that fell through, and I did just a monologue show on it, dropped as a video exclusive only about trauma and that, and in that, like the Bible is complex and complicated at times. You have the whole reason the show was created was the whole Bible in full context, and it's difficult at times for our human brains to wrap around. It's above our pay grade at times. Right? There are things that some people think may be contradictory, but they're not really when you look at them properly in the full context. But it can be difficult at times to wrap our children. We are but children to God, our child brains around. Yes. Uh oh. What happened? Oh, you're grabbing something? Okay. I'll stall for time while you're looking for whatever it is you're looking for. Okay. Can't find it.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Can't find it on my oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

There it is. Okay, yeah. I'm gonna leave all this in.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Yeah, well, please do. This is my military in issue holy Bible. Okay. There's look at all of the um the bookmarks.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

The the posted notes and yeah, yeah.

Host’s Addendum: Wars Vs. Trauma Focus

SPEAKER_01 57:45

For every place that I read that's relevant. And uh I was the subject matter expert chosen by the Pentagon chief of chaplains for a decade teaching our military about PTSD and moral injury. I went back and I did the most intensive Bible study of my life, so I would working with the chaplains, I gotta know it as good well as they do. So minutely, carefully, I noted everything related to war and violence uh that we might need to understand.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

And it's unlikely anyone is ever going to be able to memorize, unless if you're like Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory with an endemic memory, photographic memory, often referred to. You're not able to memorize all of it. You just need to remember the contexts of them and certain scriptures indeed that you can then refer back to.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Yes, and carry them in your heart for strength any every time you need them. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

Okay, so this time we really are going to really go into thank you again, Edward. It was a great talk. Um, okay. I don't know exactly when this will air, but through Podmatch, I will of course let you know. I I might apologies to others, I may move it forward a bit because I've referred to episodes like the Judas one and that other behind the scenes that dropped in February. It makes more sense if they're hearing this in March rather than June. So I might move it up, but uh either way, I'll let you know.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

And when we know when it's airing, I will circulate it far and wide as well.

SPEAKER_00 59:36

That's why I record some ahead and then we can shuffle them as need be.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

That's the chaotic creative process.

Domino Theory, Proof, And Perspective

Clarifying Iraq Facts And WMD Terms

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Yes. All right, take care. God bless, love you, brother. I hate to extend this show since I already went longer with Edward Tick, but I feel like it's important that I add this extra segment. I didn't want to relitigate the conflicts discussed during the episode because it wasn't the point and purpose of the episode. So, regardless of your opinion, the merit of or the lack thereof any merit of any of the given conflicts that we discussed here, I didn't want to relitigate them during the episode and didn't. And I don't want to do that now. That's not to say I'm afraid to discuss it or may not discuss it with another guest at another time in an episode where it is actually meant to indeed talk about those wars and the arguments for, the arguments against and whatnot. Now, we cannot prove a negative. What Edward was saying that I agreed with, that any peoples on their own soil deemed as defending their own soil, whether on the side of good or bad, psychologically, from the human condition, human nature standpoint, I agree wholeheartedly with Edward. It's easier to justify that in your mind if someone has come onto your soil. Now, that doesn't mean the invadered may or may not have had good reason to be there. It doesn't change who invaded who, but as long, like we were talking, preemptive war. For example, the domino theory, Korea and Vietnam. Did the theory is, the theory was, the theory remains, it will prevent a broader war. The regional smaller conflicts will prevent World War III in the terms and on the scale of what World War I and World War II was. Now, did and was fighting those wars? Did that prevent World War III? You can argue yes, you can argue maybe no. The fact is, the reality is indeed World War III did not happen yet. Does that prove the domino theory correct and true? Again, you can argue yes, because indeed World War III didn't happen. But you can also argue that it wouldn't have happened even without those wars. It's a matter of perspective and opinion. You cannot prove a negative. Unless we, if you're a fan of the sci-fi Stargate series as I was, unless we come across a quantum mirror where we can look into alternate dimensions and alternate realities and alternate timelines to see how this or that would have played out if it were different. And even then, it doesn't prove it would have been the case in our plane of reality, because our plane of reality would not, is not exactly the same as those other planes of realities, dimensions, timelines, if you're open to Einstein and others saying such things are real, could happen, probably are happening, but we can't traverse dimensions doesn't mean others can't. So I understand I'm sounding kind of convoluted here. I understand I'm sounding kind of standoffish for lack of better words. Again, I don't want to relitigate these things. I am bending over backwards to try and avoid that in this episode because it wasn't isn't the point of this episode and why Edward was on. But I just felt it necessary to clarify why I did or did not take positions during the episode, not looking to again, I and I'm repeating myself, I understand that. Not wanting to relitigate those situations. I again just fact base it the Iraq war. You can argue for or against good or bad. Was it good? Was it bad? Did it make no difference at all? You can argue any of those positions. What you cannot argue is the fact that Bill Clinton signed into law the Iraqi Liberation Act, that Bill Clinton gave a speech about Iraq and weapons of mass destruction before George Bush ever did. Those are facts. So again, this isn't trying to blame shift. It is about it became a stated US policy that Saddam was going to be removed as of the Bill Clinton administration. That is fact. Now the policy could have been reversed and changed later, but it wasn't. Bill Clinton signed that into law, but he didn't act upon it. The invasion of Iraq didn't take place until during G.W. Bush's administration. Again, this isn't relitigating those that war. It is just stating facts around it. You can still argue good or bad, right or wrong. I'm not doing that here. You can argue we did with as I did say, Iraq clearly didn't have a Navy and an Air Force with long range bombers to be a threat to the continental United States. Was he a threat to us in other ways? I dare say yes, but again, I'm not here to litigate that one way or the other. What you cannot argue is that they had no such thing as weapons of mass destruction. Clinton talked about it. The New York Times post-war had articles about the stashes of chemical weapons, a weapon of mass destruction. Now, I don't want to sound like Bill Clinton. Depends on what the definition of this is here, but indeed it is the case. There are different classifications of weapons of mass destruction. So did Saddam have WMDs? Absolutely, positively, no question. We know he used chemical weapons on his own people. We found them scattered all over Iraq. Did he were they spinning up centrifuges to create a nuclear weapon to put on an ICBM like Iran and the Ayatollahs keep threatening death to America? I dare say no. But did he have did he have nuclear WMDs or close to them? No. Did he have WMDs? Yes. The WMDs he had, was that justification enough? Again, I'm not litigating that. That is up to you in your own mind to determine your position, your opinion. Anyway, to wrap it up again, I don't try to bend over backwards here still, to avoid relitigating each of those conflicts. That came up as part of the discussion with Edward. You determine that. That's not the point of the episode. The point of the episode is trauma and PTSD, the various versions, the societal stress version, the conflict war cause version, or survivor's guilt psychological version. That is the point of the episode, and that is what I want to conclude with and stick with. Another time, another guest, we may go into Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, destabilization of Libya, all of those conflicts we can relitigate at another time, but let me conclude with hindsight is always twenty twenty. You deal with things in the reality of the time frame they existed and the realities as they were understood at the time of those conflicts. Hindsight's always twenty twenty. You cannot judge a car of yesterday based on the cars of today. Different times, different manufacturing ways, different regulations. A DeLorean was a very advanced car in the 1980s, but compared to a car in the 2020s, not even close. And the same thing with a Tucker. Remember the Tucker? The first to include seat belts and the first to do a whole bunch of safety things that the other automobile agencies bought because they didn't want that all to have to become immediately standard and them have to run up the cost of their vehicles. Now, I understand that's a very imperfect metaphor and analogy here, but the point is true. Remains you cannot judge the 40s and the 80s and the 2000s based on the 40s and the 80s and the 2000s. You have to judge them based on the knowns of the time. That's the only point there. All right, now I've really gone long. This episode has gone way over what it was intended, but I felt it important. I literally had to get out of bed. It's three o'clock in the morning here. My OCD brain going. I could not get to sleep. I was compelled to get out of bed to record this extra segment to make this explanation. And let me conclude with again thanking Ed Tick for coming on again. It was a great discussion. Please take away from it, maybe go back and listen to it again, to the point and purpose of why he was here. And indeed, the discussion, his books, war on the soul. Good war, bad war, here or there. All of that aside, whether you thought the war, any war, was justified or not, irrelevant to the discussion and the points that are supposed to be taken away from this episode. Maybe I'll have Ed back another time to address this closing segment. Anyway, thank you all. Take care. God bless. Hopefully, I'll be able to get to sleep now. Like and subscribe to Christitutionalist Politics Podcast and share episodes. We need your help. Thank you for having tuned into another Christitutionalist podcast show. I really appreciate that you stop by. Again, please like, share, subscribe. We need you to help spread the constitutionalist movement. Thank you again. Take care. God bless. Love you all.