CTP (S4EJulSpecial3) How Much Science Should Fiction Dare To Teach

CTP (S4EJulSpecial3) How Much Science Should Fiction Dare To Teach
Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond - all in Biblical perspective
We talk with pathologist and author Devin Greene about what makes a medical thriller feel real, and why thrillers run on momentum more than a classic whodunit. We also dig into how to explain hard science like CRISPR in plain language, plus practical lessons about publishing, discoverability, and avoiding spoilers. 
• Devin’s path from New York to California and medical training 
• What a pathologist does and why TV skews forensic pathology 
• How medical thrillers differ from mysteries 
• Using CRISPR and gene editing as thriller fuel 
• Writing accurate science that general readers can follow 
• Why early readers matter for clarity and pacing 
• A peek at an eco-thriller direction involving rhinos 
• Where to find the books and the author site devengreene.com 
• Why similar names can cause search and email mix-ups 
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A Short Story: A Lasting Legacy? book Trailer

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:08

Hello, welcome to another episode of Institutionalist Podcast. I am your host, Joseph M.

Welcome And Quick Banter

SPEAKER_07 0:17

Winer, that's L-E-N-A-R-D, Frank. Without a go. Thank you for tuning in. As Graham Norton used to say on his show. Let's get on with the show. Hello, everybody. I oh I use a nap, but I did not want to reschedule. I've been looking forward to talking with my guest today, Devin Green, D-E-V-E-N, G-R-E-E-N-E. And what were you saying about the name to me?

SPEAKER_08 0:58

It's got every E you can stick into it.

SPEAKER_07 1:04

You will also be a clue for Wheel of Fortune, and hopefully somebody will buy an E, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:11

And it'll give it a only E's. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16

Yeah. For the benefit of the transcript, we're laughing. These are jokes, people. Welcome to the show, Devin. How are you?

SPEAKER_08 1:25

Thank you. Oh, I'm happy to be here. Doing well.

SPEAKER_07 1:29

Before we get into what is a medical thriller, that intrigued me. That's why I wanted to talk to you. But before we go there, okay. Where were you born and raised? Where are you? Where are you now? Significant places you've been in between. How much time did you spend in prison and for what? I don't like to talk about that.

unknown 1:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:56

It'll be our secret. Yes. Yes. Let me pause on the recording. And again, for the benefit of the transcript, we're laughing. These are jokes. But seriously, indeed, where were you born and raised or all of that stuff?

SPEAKER_08 2:13

Well, I was actually born in New York City. Um, but I followed my parents to California when I was five. So you

Growing Up New York To California

SPEAKER_08 2:22

could say that's where I grew up, and I've spent most of my life in California. A short time in my air.

SPEAKER_07 2:28

I hope you got the hell out of there now, though.

SPEAKER_08 2:33

Out of California or Camiformia, yeah. Oh, I'm still in California and I love it here.

SPEAKER_07 2:42

Oh, it's beautiful. I loved when I vacationed, but yeah, I wouldn't go back now. But uh it's it's a there's a lot of beautiful places to live, but that cost of living is just pathetic there.

SPEAKER_08 2:58

Well, I can never afford my house now if I had to buy it, uh, frankly. Um, but yeah, it's it's it is insane.

SPEAKER_07 3:08

So but you started to say something about Miami? Yeah, I lived there for a short time. That's where you spent prison time, right? People were laughing, we're laughing. These are jokes.

SPEAKER_08 3:23

You might say it was prison, but that's where I went to medical school.

SPEAKER_07 3:28

So I like what you did there. I see what you did there. That's great. I love wordplay pun. That's fantastic, great job. So you have medical background, yes.

SPEAKER_08 3:42

Oh yeah. Uh yeah. Um, yeah, I I practice as a pathologist, um,

Pathology Vs Forensic TV Myths

SPEAKER_08 3:48

actually in in California.

SPEAKER_07 3:50

You uh a pathologist as opposed to a pathological liar.

SPEAKER_08 3:55

Well, I could be both. Yeah, one doesn't exclude more wordplay, people, more wordplay.

unknown 4:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:03

But uh yeah, I and and I'll just say I was not a forensic pathologist. A lot of people think of pathology as forensic pathology because they see autopsies and things on TV.

SPEAKER_07 4:19

Too much TV. I was just gonna say that. Yes.

SPEAKER_08 4:24

I hope nobody takes offense, but the forensic pathologists are weird.

unknown 4:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 4:34

There's my headline for the show. Controversy, stir up controversy. That's great. That's great.

SPEAKER_08 4:44

Pathologists are weird, general pathologists are weird, but the forensic ones, you know. Um, I I mean, I'm sure many of them are.

SPEAKER_07 4:52

Weirdos buried in the basement somewhere, yeah. They don't get enough light.

SPEAKER_08 4:58

Yeah. I mean, it can be interesting work, but um, it's not for me. It wasn't for me.

SPEAKER_07 5:06

Hey, yeah, everybody's uh got their preferences and find their own little niche. And hey, if you're one of those, more power to you, right? It's just not something for me or you.

SPEAKER_08 5:21

Yeah, yeah. So no, their work is important, but um, you know, and I mean a lot of work is important, and I only I didn't do a lot of different things that are important.

SPEAKER_07 5:32

No job is an unimportant job, right? You know, janitors, I'm just a janitor. No, yeah, no, I don't go for this word games, custodial, what you know, CEO of the custodian, yeah. What janitor, there's nothing wrong with that line of work, it needed an important job in the cog of the cycles of everything that happens, so no unimportant work, and I apologies, I don't mean to single out janitors, it's just what popped in my OCD brain.

SPEAKER_08 6:14

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, couldn't live without them.

SPEAKER_07 6:18

So exactly. We'd be leaving living in a lot of filth without them.

SPEAKER_08 6:25

Yeah, sometimes like sometimes in my house I'm living in a lot of filth anyway.

SPEAKER_07 6:30

But I I always joke, I'm gonna lift up my green screen. See the the ugly couch. I'm not a hoarder, but I am a slob. Look at all that crap that my green screen hides, right? Well, I'm sitting in front of a screen too. For a reason, right? For a reason. Yeah, you got it. And it's not just so I could project my wonderful video backgrounds behind me. Uh, it's to hide the garbage. Uh anyway, yeah, medical thriller.

unknown 7:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 7:11

Okay. Well, they can be different things. You know, I've looked for it, you know, there's no real like taught definition, but

What A Medical Thriller Really Is

SPEAKER_08 7:17

it has something to do with medicine. A lot of them.

SPEAKER_07 7:20

No, I thought it had to do with nuclear science.

SPEAKER_08 7:24

That can be in there too. Well, true, medical nuclear science. Yeah, well, pardon me. I got put in my place. There is nuclear medicine, that is a field, but anyway, at any rate, um, a lot of them and probably most of them have to do with um, say, a murder in a hospital. Say, you know, a poisoning or a a nurse that knocks people or a doctor that knocks.

SPEAKER_07 7:52

I can understand that because when I'm sickened in the hospital, I'd like to murder some people. Yeah. We're laughing again, people.

SPEAKER_08 8:02

These are jokes. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, there have been some so-called angels of mercy, or not really of mercy. They just like to kill. I mean, they're rare. I mean, most people in the medical profession.

SPEAKER_07 8:16

Serial killer in a warped sense of uh trying to spin it as empathetic or sympathetic. Yeah. Uh, what you have is not a you have no respect for life, and you should not be in that field, indeed.

SPEAKER_08 8:36

Right. So, you know, unfortunately, there's there's bad people in every field. I mean, you know, yeah. Even bad janitors. Yes, there can be bad janitors, you're right. But uh um uh but another area and where where I where my books fit in is kind of uh I look at kind of bigger pictures, for instance, um and they're thrillers, they're not who done it. So a lot of medical medical thrillers would be who done it, who killed this person? Was it a poison? Was it there's a difference?

SPEAKER_07 9:11

I'm glad you made that important distinction, yes.

SPEAKER_08 9:15

So mine are more thrillers where there's something happening and it has to do with medicine.

SPEAKER_07 9:20

Yeah, I can't now we said the word thriller so many times. My OCD brain, I'm gonna have Michael Jackson thriller in my head the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_08 9:30

Anyway, but um a thriller is more like you know, as opposed to a mystery, uh a mystery kind of in general starts with a dead body and you figure out what happened. A thriller is something that kind of uh ticking ticking clock, that kind of thing, you know something's brewing uh and you try to stop it or find out what's going on. Uh that's that's closer to a description of my books, and I can just list the different things I've written about. Uh actually the first one I published uh was about uh gene editing with CRISPR. Oh yes, I'm familiar with

CRISPR And Explaining Science Simply

SPEAKER_08 10:09

the yeah and and I actually explained CRISPR. I think a lot of people don't quite understand it.

SPEAKER_07 10:15

That's good you laid that out. Yeah, some who aren't into science type things or genetics, uh uh DNA type stuff might not know that exactly. So good.

SPEAKER_08 10:29

But I like I like the fact that you use the word science because that's the word I use to describe certain parts of my books. So there's stuff that happens, and then there's sciencey parts that explain the science behind it. And I really try hard to write that in a way that anybody can understand. I mean, there's a lot of smart people out there, but they don't have a science background or not a science background in that particular area. So I write I write things and then I have other people read it, people that don't have my background, to see if they can understand it.

SPEAKER_07 11:09

Amen. Exactly. You don't want to be over everybody's head, you want to be detailed, but not leave the the uh readers going, what the hell is she talking about?

SPEAKER_08 11:22

You got it. So I I I uh I I usually have to go through several iterations, you know, where people say, Well, I didn't get that, I didn't get that. So I try I keep it accurate, but I do simplify. Um sometimes it hurts.

SPEAKER_07 11:38

Which is not to say dumbing down. No, some people might get the more complicated technical delivery, but we all as authors, as an author also, have to understand. We have to write for unfortunately a lower common denominator at times to make sure people understand it. So those we're not over someone's head, and at the same time, those who would understand the more complex don't feel talked down to. It's a delicate balance.

SPEAKER_08 12:18

Well, that's that's what I aim for. Um, and I think I mean, obviously, you know, people who aren't familiar, they're not stupid.

SPEAKER_07 12:27

No, they're we are all ignorant of that which we've yet to learn. That's not an insult to say that. Yeah, there's a lot of things I don't know. So amen. I hear you. I would probably mess that up. You don't know your uh the up or down end of a mop, right? Yeah, yeah. And I'm I'm glad you used the word brewing before. I I want to give you a joke. The people, I'm not gonna give away the manufacturer of the coffee makers and medical thriller where a nurse poisons others through the coffee in the coffee maker, maybe, right? But here's the joke I it's a certain manufacturer, it's like schmuckers, right? They know their name is odd and they make fun of themselves. Well, the name like Schmuckers, it has to be good, right? Well, most places you go to now have a certain brand of coffee maker, and that sets up the joke. I don't get why anyone would want coffee or anything filtered through somebody's buns. But um bum. UN is the name of the coffee pot maker, you know, and I'm sure they're perfectly fine people, and I mean no offense, it's just too obvious a lame pun for me to pass up on.

SPEAKER_08 13:57

And I bet you don't have one of those.

SPEAKER_07 14:01

No, but most of the restaurants I go to do have them, and I make that joke all the time. To anyone and everyone knew I that gets a cup of coffee that I've not interacted with, I tell them that joke. Okay. Good, clean six-year-old-ish potty humor, right?

SPEAKER_08 14:24

Oh, yeah, I'm familiar with that that type of humor because I have some young grandchildren.

unknown 14:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 14:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 14:33

It's even clean enough you could tell the grandchildren next time you're at a restaurant, right?

SPEAKER_08 14:38

Right, right.

SPEAKER_07 14:40

Anyway, I again my OCD, ADHD brain rabbit holes open up. I go off the beaten path all the time. Back to medical thrillers. Back to medical thrillers.

SPEAKER_08 14:54

How many do you have? Well, I have six published, and I'm working almost done with my seventh.

Six Books In And Rhinos Next

SPEAKER_08 15:01

And I I'll say the seventh, I've I veered away from actually medical. It's just a thrill. This is more of an eco thriller, okay, the one I'm working on now. Um, there's it's still got science-y stuff in it, okay. Uh, but it's it's not medical, it's not human, okay.

SPEAKER_07 15:23

Okay. I yeah. Leave the leave the t's right where you left it. Yeah. Okay. Let's not give too much away.

SPEAKER_08 15:33

Well, actually, it's it it's not really a T, it's really about rhinos. Okay. That's it's uh yeah, it deals with rhinos.

SPEAKER_07 15:42

Not politicians in DC Republicans, though. Real actual rhinos, not the R-H-I-N-O-K, not the R-I-N-O-K. Yeah, yeah. But and yeah, like I say in my how to write a book and get it published in tips and techniques. You don't want to give too much away about a future publication uh until it's ready to come out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 16:08

So well, even when it's out, I always have a hard time. Oh, what's you know, you know you have to write things to get people interested in your book, but you don't want to what you want is for people to know nothing about your book and just read it. But that's not gonna happen. People want to know something about what it's about. Um in fact, now you may not know this, but there's a number of people, including my sister-in-law, who reads the end of a book. Oh, oh. She will not read a book.

SPEAKER_07 16:44

You know what I do to my books? I purposely put something in the back for people like that. Ha! I caught you. Well, good. Now stop reading the back and go to the front where you belong.

SPEAKER_08 16:59

She does that, she does that with movies too. Um she but but she trusts Hallmark movies enough to just watch them because she knows they're not they're not gonna have a sad ending, they'll always have an ending that she's happy with.

SPEAKER_07 17:15

So um well, that's boring. The same old happy ending stuff.

unknown 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 17:22

Yeah, well, she that's what she wants. So um that's why she reads the end of a book. Um most people don't do that, but actually, after she mentioned that to me, you know, I kind of looked into it, and and there's a certain percent of people, like maybe two percent of people.

SPEAKER_07 17:39

Yeah, and it's it's why I do that in the back. I put stuff in the back of the books beyond the story, so the snoopers like that aren't getting the end of the book when they go to the back of the book.

SPEAKER_08 17:53

Oh, that's a good idea, and everybody lives happily ever after.

SPEAKER_07 17:57

And yeah, the end. Well, why do I need to read this now? Right, yeah. No, sorry. Yeah, yeah. So uh your books are available on Amazon and everywhere, I take it.

SPEAKER_08 18:12

They're available everywhere.

SPEAKER_07 18:14

If they're

Where To Buy Books And Find Devin

SPEAKER_07 18:15

not in your bookstore, the books the bookstore can order them, they're all out on books, they have book or ISBNs, which means yeah, anyone can order them anywhere.

SPEAKER_08 18:28

Yeah, and and I do have a web page if anyone's curious.

SPEAKER_07 18:32

Yep, give them that. That's usually what I ask at the end. So, hey, let's start to wrap it up. We I think we've covered a lot.

SPEAKER_08 18:39

So the website is it's Devin Green with lots of e's.

unknown 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 18:46

Yeah. D-E-V-E-N-G-R-E-E-N-E dot com. All right, and let me just say there is another Devin Green out there who doesn't have an E at the end. Oh, and she's a very edgy comedian. I'll just say edgy. Okay, beyond edgy.

SPEAKER_07 19:11

A little blue, maybe, or a little foul.

SPEAKER_08 19:14

A little or a lot, yeah, and that's not me.

SPEAKER_07 19:18

I hear you because I have to joke all the time. I am Joseph M. Leonard, not Lennard. It looks French, but it's Leonard without an O. And Joseph M. Leonard, because there is a Joseph Lennard out of South Carolina who is also a Christian author. So I am not he, he is not me, and you won't confuse either of us for Shakespeare. I like to joke. But yeah, I I get you. You've gotta be careful with names now. Uh, the name gets just too close, it could cause a problem. Like I get emails all the time about the other guy. What did you mean in the last so far when you said that nope, not wrong guy? Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 20:11

So actually, the other Devin Green, I would say, is more popular than me because if you put in my name with the E, sometimes it'll say, Did you mean Devin Green with no e?

SPEAKER_07 20:24

I get that all the time. Google is definitely an issue for me because there are a lot of Leonards with the O in the name. Uh yeah, and an actor, I forget that was in the Star Trek one movie. Uh uh Mark Leonard, L-E-O-N-A-R-D. So okay. So they assume do you mean L-E-O-N-A-R-D? No, I typed in L-E-N-A-R-D for a reason. So yeah, I I hear you, I get you. I get all that's why, like uh my the book of Kennedy subtitled Project Carpe Diem. I have to tell people make sure you put in the whole title, the Book of Kennedy, Project Carpe Diem. Otherwise, guess what? They get a bunch of JFK books. This is nothing to do with the Kennedy family. That happens to be her first name, not the last name, right? So so yeah, I I hear you, I get that.

SPEAKER_08 21:35

Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, um one of these days I'll she's not really a right. She has one book out. The other Devon Green, I'm sorry, the other Devin Green has one book out. She's mostly got videos and things like that. I I've looked at a few of them.

SPEAKER_07 21:54

Uh yeah. But still, yeah, there's that bleed. So I I hear you, I get that. And uh it can be a problem. Take care, God bless you.

SPEAKER_08 24:14

Okay, you too. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_04 24:31

Deadly side effects.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Baby I love you, but you come with side effects. Roller coaster kisses, then the drop by can protect.

SPEAKER_04 24:47

Way up by

Outro Music And Final Call

SPEAKER_04 24:50

Then you leave me hanging there One hand up in the sky, one foot out of nowhere. You split past Like a car on the freeway in my And I forget my name from zero fun to a total mess tonight.

SPEAKER_07 25:13

You smile at me And I'm already in the right I still know better But I don't back down You're leaning close and you take my ground One more look at your name and I get Baby I love you Deadly side effects Deadly side effects Deadly side effects Deadly Baby I love you Deadly side effects Deadly side effects Deadly side effects You got that speed I can't keep in my lane Every little touch twist my calm in the rain I laugh too loud and I trip on the floor One taste of you and I want a little more Fast in the light and you vanish out my hands I keep on falling like a planet again Yo spark in the mess in my veins I swear I finally you call my name I shouldn't know better but I don't back down the evening close and you take my girl One more look and I'm born again I hear your name and I get Baby I love you Deadly side effects Deadly side effects Deadly side effects Deadly Baby I love you Deadly side effects Deadly side effects Deadly side effects Loving you is a risky game I'll take the hits say it all the same One more spin one more wild ride the single Baby love you at least effects effects you baby love you baby but you come with deadly side effects like roller coaster rides way up high the massive drop dive you turn me into a mess flying car on the freeway with inconvertible air from zero to fun to total rest deadly side of facts deadly side of facts anymore but I keep putting back in me and I can't take it slow they say too much is a bad thing but I don't care I swear I wanna all the those on you every little taste of you is damaging let it hurt I swear I wanna over song you tell us to behave like we're supposed to I do not care love if you will send me to my grave too much of a good thing is a bad thing then baby let me overdose on you lipstick on my collar I want unfair your number on my mirror I still leave it there they preach about the consequence I just crave your touch if this is running out of time why do I need it so much give me every fact I'll paint them on my walls every late night fight I'll answer every call if this is how I disappear at least I disappear in you at least I lose it all in know who I was ruined by by you say too much of a good thing is a bad thing but I don't care I swear I wanna hold those on you I'll taste of you is damaging and let it hurt I swear I wanna hold those on you they tell us to behave like we're supposed to I do not care if loving you will send me to my grave too much of a good thing is a bad thing then baby let me overdose on you like and subscribe to Christitutionalist politics podcast and share episodes we need your help thank you for having tuned into another Christitutionalist podcast show I really appreciate that you stop by again please like share subscribe we need you to help spread the constitutionalist movement thank you again take care God bless love you all