ChristiTutionalist Politics | Christian Perspectives on Constitutional Issues

CTP (S4EJulSpecial5) Everest To Adjustment

Joseph M. Lenard | Christian Activist & Author in Politics Season 4

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CTP (S4EJulSpecial5) Everest To Adjustment
We talk with Greg Varnau about what drives someone to climb Mount Everest and what that kind of pressure teaches you about fear, preparation, and purpose. Then we connect that mountain mindset to chiropractic care, mobility, and why modern sedentary life makes “move it or lose it” feel painfully true. 
• growing up around mountains and returning to Santa Monica 
• Into Thin Air as the spark for Everest curiosity 
• meeting climbers and learning why “miserable” can feel meaningful 
• training climbs in Ecuador including Cotopaxi and Chimborazo 
• dealing with altitude sickness and pushing through smartly 
• joining a guided Everest team and the role of Sherpas 
• the summit day moment spotting a NASA patch 
• choosing chiropractic through a desire to help people hands-on 
• network spinal chiropractic and what patients feel after adjustments 
• aging, posture, screens, and the myth of inevitable decline 
• health as the foundation that makes everything else possible 
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Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_07

Hello, welcome to another episode of First of Two Stars Podcast. I am your host, Joseph M. Werner. That's L-E-N-A-R-T at the front. Oh thank you for tuning in. As Brandon stay on his show, let's get over the show. Joining me today is Greg Varneau. It looks like Varnau has an A-U on the end. It's G-R-E-G V-A-R-N-A-U. Varno. Or like in Barnun, Varneau. Welcome to the show, Craig.

SPEAKER_01

Hey, thank you so much. It's great to be here. Really glad to meet you.

SPEAKER_07

And today, well, for behind the scenes, Ash Wednesday, for those who could see the video, that's why he looks the way he does. He doesn't normally walk around like that. Not normally.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely not normally. Today today is a special day.

SPEAKER_07

And I have had on I've had health weeks in February of 2025. I had had people on regarding health before that and after that. Gonna talk to you about chiropractic practices. But before that, I want to get into your Everest climb. But before even that, where

Why Everest Called To Him

SPEAKER_07

were you born and raised? Where are you now? How much time have you spent in prison for what? For the record, he's laughing. That's a joke, people.

SPEAKER_01

Not a serious question, I see. But I can tell you if you want to know. No. Um, so I uh I was born in Santa Monica, California.

SPEAKER_07

My condolences.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. My my parents felt the same way, so they moved out when I was two years old. So I I never grew up in California. I grew up in Seattle. And uh, you know, I was up there surrounded by mountains and beauty. I'm a nature boy at heart. I love to be outside. And uh and uh now here I am and it's full circle. I'm actually back in Santa Monica area. So that's where I currently am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

Okay, it is beautiful in California. It's yeah, just all that other stuff that goes on next time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. The sun's the sun's a nice friend to have down here.

SPEAKER_07

Yes. I've visited California. Well, I've been out there for work decades ago. Uh I you know, to go back for a visit would be nice, but yeah, at any rate.

SPEAKER_01

To go in to go in and out in your case, not not to love to live too long.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, yes, absolutely. I I spent a whole August there back in like 2002. It was Ontario, California. I used to work for Kmart HQ, and we had a uh uh a warehouse there. I was out there to work on the computers there, yeah. But at any rate, yeah, and I loved the time out there, that was great. Love to be able to go up the mountain up to Rancho Cucamonga, beautiful, you know, you'd be in the city and just a short drive up the side of the mountain. You're in horse country rather than car country.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, yeah, and now and now you now you live in where again?

SPEAKER_07

Now you're currently I'm in the Detroit area, born and raised here.

SPEAKER_01

So okay. The car, the car, the car Omecca, the where it where it all began with the automatic field, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07

So let's talk about the Everest thing. You you said you started saying you've you know, being in the wonderful, you know, nature areas of Washington and California, you've always felt outdoorsy, but what made you decide to take it to that level? You gotta climb Everest. I mean, that's that's a whole other kind of aspiration.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I think uh, you know I uh I like to um deprive myself of oxygen, is the main reason. I feel like it's a good way to uh to experience nature is when you're short on oxygen. So now the uh the reason was um it was really just a variety of events that led me there. Um at the end of the day, it really is just the love for the mountains. Love to be outside. Um you know everybody experiences you know connection with something greater than themselves in unique ways. And um for me, in my case, it was being in nature was the way that I, you know, connected and experienced something greater than myself. Um so yeah, that's really was the draw. Um, I read you know the book Into Thin Air when I was a teenager back in the 90s, if anyone remembers what that was like. And uh I remember reading that book and it just it terrified me. It terrified me. I thought it was one of the scariest things I could imagine being up that high without anyone around, and um running out of oxygen, getting caught in a storm. It's like that was like kind of like the worst possible thing I could imagine. Sounded sounded very uh terrifying. And yet at the same time, it also sounded very intriguing. It just sounded like it captured my imagination. That story captured my imagination. So it was something that just sounded like a fantasy, like to be at the tallest point on on the planet. And like, what is it like up there? You know, like what is it like? Is it what are the rocks like? What what are the what's the snow like? What's what's like the you know, just so curious about everything. What are the people like?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, I've been up into the Colorado Rockies, but yeah, I can't imagine being up much higher than that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's uh it's a it's one of those things. I mean, if you like the Rockies, it's like that's you know, essentially, I feel like all the mountain each mountain has its own draw, you know, like doesn't matter how tall it is, there's something about the mountain that you know, I think it has this magnetic quality to it that that makes people curious and want to like want to go. Like, what it what's up there, you know? Or maybe it's just me, I don't know.

SPEAKER_07

But I think that's I think a lot of people have that temptation, but again, it's it's a whole other thing to take it to that level of yeah, I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, and the the um that was mostly just I consider that mostly like right place, right time. You know, a lot of a lot of what got me up there was luck, if you believe in luck, or you know, some might call it grace, if you believe in grace, but uh that's that's really it was just it was a wild uh road to get there. But I was originally was traveling and um down in South America, and it all

Misery And Meaning In Climbing

SPEAKER_01

started when I met like these guys from the Netherlands, these Dutch climbers, who were talking about their recent experience going up a really tall peak in Bolivia, and they described it as basically the one of the most miserable experiences of their life. And hearing them talk about it, um, I could hear that he was saying it was miserable, like that's what he was saying with his words, but there was something about it too that the way he said it was that he he he loved it as well. He loved how miserable it was, if that makes sense. He loved how like the the excitement and the adrenaline and uh the way he felt when he was up there. It's like he was miserable and also he felt so alive, right?

SPEAKER_07

Uh yeah, very fulfilling that he was able to meet those challenges and live through it. I mean, there's a lot of abandoned bodies on the top of Everest. So you've been there, you've been there, you you're back. Did you go as part of a team?

SPEAKER_01

Or yeah, you know, it it was that I was actually in Colorado and I had just climbed up Pike's Peak in preparation to meet with a friend who really was my Everest mentor and inspiration. His name is Jim.

Ecuador Training And Altitude Sickness

SPEAKER_01

And um he invited me to go on a climbing trip down in Ecuador, and I didn't really know exactly what I was doing with my life at that point. I was deciding the next steps. And I decided, okay, what the heck? I'll go, I'll go meet up with Jim and go climb climb a couple mountains. I'm sure he's got something fun in store. So I got down there and I just, I don't know, I was just at that point praying for guidance and clarity and and kind of get clear on what the next steps were. And somewhere along the lines, I just remember thinking that when I got to the top of Chimborazo Mountain, I was gonna know what I wanted to do next in my life. And I um so I went on a trip and I was like, all right, let's just do it, let's see what's going on. And me and Jim uh joined a guide named Jaime, he was a local Ecuador guy, and we got to go up two different um volcanoes. The first one was called Kotopaxi. And um we, you know, get up got up there and we stayed in a little hiker hut. Everyone was snoring in the hiker hut, so no one really slept well, at least I didn't sleep well. And um the next day we left, or that night rather, we left at like around one in the morning, and we hiked up to the top of the mountain. And um we got down, and I actually got the worst altitude sickness I've ever had on that trip. I was like extremely sick, I was vomiting, I didn't know that I was gonna be able to do the second volcano, which is what we were training for. And um my guide was even wondering if I would be able to do it. He's like, I don't know if you guys are ready for this one. But we get we went ahead and we went up and did it the next, I think, two days later. And meanwhile, Jim is one of those guys, he's been on Everest five times. He had been on Everest five times, and Jaime had been on Everest as well. And I was just super curious. I was asking them all these questions. I was like, what is it like up there? Like, how do you sleep up there? What do you how do you go to the bathroom up there? Like, how do you like so many questions? Like, it's it's such a unique thing now.

SPEAKER_07

It's like we don't we don't think about like yeah, there's no no porta potties up there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There's no what do you do? You know, like you just go anywhere and um it was uh it was just wild. It was like I was just so curious and wanted to learn more. And um, you know, in the back of my head, I was like I was thinking, of course I want to go. I mean, like, if you ask anyone, like, do you want to do you want to see the top of Mount Everest? Like, you know, take away all the risk and everything. Do you want to just check it out and see what it's like?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, hopefully one day there'll be cable cars to take people like me up there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, exactly. Like, no, thanks, but a cable car? Sure, I'll go.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

And I got a joke with you, even though your name is VAR, no, you were an eager yes, but a bar, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. In that case, I was a barn yes.

SPEAKER_07

My audience knows I can't pass on the lame puns.

SPEAKER_01

So it's good. We love a good pun.

SPEAKER_07

Do you come from a medical family? Um obviously.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad is a um, he does my dad does prosthetics and orthotics, and he's retired now, but so he he did that for many for

Family Roots And Choosing Chiropractic

SPEAKER_01

like many years. And then my mom does mental did it mental health. She was um, yeah, like a therapist.

SPEAKER_07

So yeah, so going into medicine, the medical fields of some kind was probably a path you thought was gonna be your way early on, then or no?

SPEAKER_01

No, it took me, I was actually, yeah, I think I think you know, early on, I knew I wanted to help people, right? Like I knew I wanted to help people. Um, and so it took me some time to know exactly what that was gonna look like. But basically, I knew I loved to work with my hands, I knew I loved to help people. I was seeing a chiropractor at the time, it totally changed my life, and you know, basically I was like, yeah, I could I could do this. This is something I could see myself doing. So that's how it all kind of started.

SPEAKER_07

Uh-huh. And and so, where did you school for that?

SPEAKER_01

So I studied over in California at uh Life West, it's called. Um, it's in the Bay Area and this little city uh called Hayward, California. So right in the heart of the Bay Area.

SPEAKER_07

So you have a successful practice going on in California now, I take it.

SPEAKER_01

I do, yeah. I'm over in Venice, California. That's why I have the surfboard over there.

SPEAKER_07

And yeah, for those who looking on the behind the scenes video, you could see the red, yellow, and green surfboard leaning against the wall back there. Uh, for the benefit of the 25 plus audio, we gotta spell it out for them.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_07

So so you do you like to surf then, obviously, or it's it's just a prop.

SPEAKER_01

You know, it's mostly a prop, but every once in a while I'll put it in the car. I had it I had it out yesterday, actually. So yeah, I do love to surf. I love to surf. I love being in the water. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

I I'm the exact opposite. I'm very much land oriented. I'm okay. I I I I don't I don't even eat things out of uh, you know, tuna, sure, okay, but love swordfish when I tried it, but that's more like a steak. But fish, I I like to joke, I don't even want the steak if they bathed the cow before it was slaughtered. That's how much anti-things from the water I am.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, yeah, it's you're the land, you like the land animals as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07

So how long have you been doing chiropractic? Is that the correct term?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, chiropractic, chiropractic, it's tomato tomato. Um the uh the chiropractic I was doing since 2015 is when I first discovered this style of chiropractic called network spinal um through my chiropractor. And then I've been uh

Network Spinal Care And Real Reactions

SPEAKER_01

practicing since 2020. So it's been uh it's been a great experience. I I love um taking people, helping people. I love seeing their face after an adjustment. It's the best part. They're sometimes they're like just blown away, and I really need like a little like camera on my collar so I can capture people's you know faces afterwards because that's the funnest part to me.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, I'm I'm long overdue for an adjustment. I I my neck will pop occasionally a little bit on its own, but I'm in dire need. I had an auto accident when I was young. So as you would imagine, yeah, the things are screwed up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, those auto auto accidents are no joke. They're our body was not meant to um stop suddenly at um extremely fast speeds, you know.

SPEAKER_07

So but even people as a health maintenance thing, chiropractic, it makes sense, right? We need to remain loose and limber, uh, especially now in our sedimentary type lifestyles of today, we don't get the exercise we used to, which would kind of more naturally keep us loose and limber.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's one of the first things, expressions I learned in chiropractic school was Wolf's law, which states move it or lose it. So kind of sums it up right there, you know. You want to keep keep it going, keep your your everything working, then just keep on moving, really. And there's certain ways we forget forget to move, so that's what the chiropractor's for is to help you help you move those places that are stuck, basically. So yeah, yeah, it's and um yeah, so you and you said you've been to a chiropractor, you used to go to the yes.

SPEAKER_07

Um long due, you know, hot insurance sometimes they'll cover it, sometimes they won't. I'm I'm on a disability budget, I know I need it, but yet I can't afford the co-pays, right? So yeah, yeah, I know I need it, but yet I can't quite afford it. But at least every once in a while I should go back to have that loosened up so that things start to move a little again on their own.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's it's uh one of those things I feel like that I was I was have thought about it again and again is um just like what a what a value and what a like a blessing it is when we're healthy, you know. It's it's one of those things that I don't think we realize um until we get sick and or we can't we hurt ourselves, and then you know we can't move, and then it's like all of a

The Real Value Of Feeling Healthy

SPEAKER_01

sudden, then it's like what's more valuable, right? Like forget, forget, you know, where I forget eating even, like forget like everything. It's like I need to get my body like to work again so that I can keep on living.

SPEAKER_07

And I'm 63 now, of course. With each decade, gravity, you know, gives its extra wear and tear on the body. Yeah, absolutely. When you're younger, you're more nimble, you're you know, you know, the body just is more able to help itself, it seems, and the older you get, the again, our sedimentary lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, that's that's the big the big thing that um that I I've been stressing with people is I I really do think it's a myth that when you get older you need to like your body needs to stop working. I think I think that's an absolute myth. Um I I have seen countless examples, and also myself, um you know, I I climbed Mount Everest when like it was last year essentially, so I was 42. Um that's you know, that's get that's not like I'm not, you know, I'm I'm not a spring chicken at that point, right?

SPEAKER_07

Like you're over 40, and um it's like uh Yeah, things really start to slide down, it seems, after age 40, yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and and and I I I just don't think it has to be that way though. I don't think it has to be like a major downhill slope where it's like you have to be resigned to being in pain or not being able to do stuff you used to love and Um you know, I actually my my chiropractor, he's a role model for me because he's 59 now, and I hear him say like he he and I believe him, he says he's now in the best shape of his life. And I don't know how he did it. I don't know exactly what it like I still marvel at it, but I mean he's uh he's moving really well for his age, and I feel like that's that's really what I want to communicate with people so that I can help others, you know, with their with their lives moving out well.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, I got into IT before I went on disability, so indeed, you know eight hours a day mostly sitting in a cubicle. That's not how we're meant to be as humans.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07

People who are out doing construction for a living, uh they kind of remain in shape na somewhat naturally and much more limber naturally because their bodies perpetually in motion and and they're staying physical as opposed to again, I can't say enough, our bad sedimentary lifestyles of today more and more, and and it's really bad our kids you know sitting watching everything on the screen, just sitting on the couch and not getting out experiencing things. We're getting worse instead of better. We know better, but we're getting worse anyway.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. It's it's uh kind of this quiet um event that's taking place in our life where we're all kind of getting more and more hooked on these little devices in our pockets and feeling like we can't live without them, and we spend so much of our life now kind of hunched over looking at our these things and staring at them a good chunk of the day. And you know, um, between that and then our current like healthcare

Screens Posture And Modern Health Warnings

SPEAKER_01

crisis with all the different rising cases of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and you got these kids like in you know grade school and you know diagnosed with ADHD and getting fed all these pills from you know such a young, young age.

SPEAKER_07

It's really uh I myself when I go to the doctor next to talk to them about Parkinson's, I'm noticing unvoluntary movement in the right arm. I was like, okay, well, the longer you put something off, the only worse it's gonna get. You need to have those discussions with doctors early on. And uh, I was gonna go somewhere and I forgot where it was. Um, that's the other thing. Mom had dementia, and I'm getting more and more brain fog, and it's like I gotta talk to them about that too. It's like, is it just natural aging of yeah, just lose my train of thought, or is that something worse?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Those are good questions, and how can how can I help it or whatever? Exactly. How can I help that?

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, yeah, the longer we wait, the worse. Oh, I remember what it was now. Like the movie Wally. Remember the little robot, right? We go off the planet on ships, and then everybody's on remote-controlled uh uh little lounger chairs, and we get fatter and fatter and fatter again because of loss, no mobility, no exercise, sedimentary. I mean, that movie uh kind of sums it up of the reality, but yet again, we we we have these warnings, but we don't learn.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. It's um they're hopefully we get and then we get these reminders every once in a while, which is always helpful. So hopefully it's not a one of the negative reminders with our body yelling at us or whatever. But it certainly is becoming more and more common, I think, these days.

SPEAKER_07

No average. Yeah, uh trip on SpaceX to the moon next. How are you gonna get any higher, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know, uh exactly. And you know, that's that that's a great question. It was funny because when when I was up there on my summit day, I was with my um guide. His name's Sonom. Uh to answer your question from earlier, I was part of a uh climbing team with this climbing company called IMG, which is International Mountain Guys. They're based up in Washington State as well. And um and I were going up the mountain, he's

Summit Day Stories And The NASA Patch

SPEAKER_01

um we were going up the ridge doing the last final stretch, and uh at one point he stopped, he just took a pause, and there were these couple guys behind us, um this one guy, and uh two sherpas with him. And so they were waiting for us, so I saw Sony wave these guys forward, and um sure enough, these guys passed us on the rope, he went ahead of us. As he went if he had a horn, he probably would have hopped at it. He would have given us some kind of signal. But as he was walking by, I looked at his arm and I was like, I saw it said NASA. He had a NASA patch on his on his arm. And so again, I was just like, that's interesting. So we kind of continue off, me and Sonov continue up. He kind of sonov's used to this stuff because he's he's a Sherpa, so he was way ahead of me at one point. And he looked back at me, and I'll never forget him because every time he looked back at me, he always was looked surprised that I was that far behind him. And he looked back at me with his curious face, like, what are you doing? And then he'd be like, You're a slacker!

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

He just was always like, What are you doing? Why are you? He's like, come on. He'd always be like, with his hand, come on. And it just it used to make me laugh because it was like, I was like, dude, like, I'm not up here all the time. Like, this isn't this isn't the easiest thing for me in the world. But eventually I listened, you know, I listened to him. I'm like, okay, I'll keep coming. Alright, so we eventually made it to the top, and those two guys again were were there. The guy with his with his like jumpsuit on, essentially. He had the two patches, and then I saw three more patches. They said NASA on. I was so curious about that. But we were also wearing oxygen masks. It was really hard to strike up a conversation with him at that moment. But I was very curious, and eventually, when I got to the bottom and I got down to base camp, I asked my um my guide about it. And everything can be kind of a small world at a certain point. So basically I found out which guiding company he was with and talked to the guy who was in charge of it. He said, sure enough, that guy was about to go blast off with um I think they're called Blue Origin. Yeah. He was gonna blast off to um to do uh flight into the outer orbits. Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_07

Sure, there's there's Elon SpaceX, there's Blue Origin Bezos, and there's Virgin Atlantic uh oh, I can't think of his name. That guy brain fog again, but I can pick Branson. Carlson Yeah, whatever Branson, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07

So thank you, Verno, Greg Verno, for coming on. It was a great conversation. Do you have you crawl log this stuff on a website or anything like that? Do you have a website?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. You're you're more than welcome to follow me on Instagram if you want to learn more about um the work that I do and how you know um this work changed my life and allowed me to do things like

Where To Follow Greg Online

SPEAKER_01

climb Mount Everest, absolutely. Um the name of my Instagram is Summit, appropriately, right? Summit underscore family underscore chiropractic is my Instagram page. And then my website is the same, summit hyphen family.com. And I love love to hear from you, love to hear anyone's feedback. Um if they'd like to learn more about anything, just feel free to reach out on Instagram and I'd love to be in touch.

SPEAKER_07

Have a good one, take care.

SPEAKER_01

All right, you too, great, great e you. Have a good one.

SPEAKER_00

Life can be like an amusement ride, but not always amusing. Roller coasters, the life kind. Now available on Amazon.

Book Promo And Music Interlude

SPEAKER_03

In the dust of my mess, you still call my name, handshake hard unsteady. You don't look away, you stand in the middle of it all. Closer than my feet. I was lost in the crowd, and you drew me near. And everyone falls down when you step into the room, every life goes quiet when I hear you.

SPEAKER_05

In the growing trees, in every bird of the church, do drop listening, whispering in every breath. Those are his words. Real question Are you listening?

Spoken Word On Hearing God

SPEAKER_05

Does God still speak today? I hear it in the trees, in every bird that chirps, in the fields you let me see. On the leaves at dawn, those are his works to me all day long. When I look in the sun, you are never fine. In the line of the sky, and the time spark putting through the line. What I thought the small time to speak so loud. You are here now. You are here. Sometimes, as it may be in metaphors, as riddles, in rhyme.

SPEAKER_02

He is speaking.

SPEAKER_05

Are we still listening in these fallen times?

SPEAKER_00

Life can be like an amusement ride, but not always amusing. Roller coasters, the life kind. Now available on Amazon.

SPEAKER_03

Since the cross was raised on Calvary's Hill, men have stood on corners crying in this night. Generation after generation, checking signs and seasons still, shall not know the hour. Yeah, we always try.

SPEAKER_05

We are frail and flawed, every one of us. Perfect

Faith Lyrics And End Times Themes

SPEAKER_05

not a bird. You're fine and stupid. You're arrogant. Well, the letter. It's got to be the same. What does a man day? The fluids the whole world and the fruit is done away. You are known by all your fruits. It's got to die. It's just not to the side. You still make your choice. Don't put it in the leaf. What other wise be so? There's no way for a belief.

SPEAKER_04

We're not here to end it. We're gonna go to flame in every.

SPEAKER_03

For real? Every heir asks the question. Every frightened soul can feel that the world is spinning darker.

SPEAKER_05

That the hour's drawing near, but it's just time. It's got to be a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04

Don't worry. Don't be a fruit God's time.

SPEAKER_05

Scrolling Oh, this gold skip.

SPEAKER_07

We need your help. Thank you for having tuned in to another Christitutionalist podcast show. I really appreciate that you stop by. Again, please like, share, subscribe. We need you to help spread the Christitutionalist movement. Thank you again. Take care. God bless. Love you all.