CTP (S4EAugSpecial1) The Writer’s Long Game

CTP (S4EAugSpecial1) The Writer’s Long Game
Joseph M. Leonard talks with author Kern Carter about what it takes to stick with writing for decades, from early creative sparks to the hard realities of publishing. We swap jokes, dig into craft choices like run-on sentences, and land on a simple idea: learn the rules, then use them on purpose. 
• Kern Carter’s origins in Trinidad and life in Toronto 
• The “creative gene” and how early dreams turn into real work 
• Why supportive friends matter in a rejection-heavy career 
• Publishing reality checks including competition, timing, and marketing 
• Kern’s latest books and writing for a wider age range 
• First-book lessons and why writing a novel is technical 
• Word-count breakdowns for short story, novelette, novella, and novel 
• “Novel X” and the push for shorter reads and better value 
• Breaking grammar rules intentionally to serve character and story 
• Why reviews should focus on story impact over comma counting 
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A Short Story: A Lasting Legacy? book Trailer

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_08 0:08

Hello, welcome to another episode of Pristitutionalist Podcast. I am your host, Joseph M. Leonard. That's L-E-N-A-R-D at the French. It's not explored without an O. Thank you for tuning in. As Graham Norton used to say on his show. Let's get on with the show. Joining me today is Kern Carter. And in his PodMatch bio, I make no bones about I use PodMatch as a service where guests find hosts and hosts find guests. You can check it out at tinyurl.com slash join podmatch. Don't have to sign up. You can just check it out if you like. Where he said he's dreamed of wordsmithing since age eight, to which I responded, I too was transfixed and fascinated with engaging in writing at an early age. But it uh didn't have until 2022, an old dude, that I finally became internationally published. So he accomplished it a lot quicker and sooner than I did. Welcome to the show, Kern. How are you?

SPEAKER_04 1:38

I'm doing well. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_08 1:43

Uh the it's a Christian show, so I like to joke. The obvious proverbial, right? Proverbs, Christian. The proverbial first question, and what is the genesis of your story? Where were you born? Where were you raised? What you know, significant places you've been into in between, where are you now? That sort of thing. Let's start with that.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

Yeah, I was actually born in Trinidad. Um then I came over to Toronto when I was six years old. So I was raised in Toronto.

Trinidad Roots And Toronto Upbringing

SPEAKER_04 2:23

I pretty much spent the rest of my life there. I did though go to university in uh upstate New York. So I went to university at a school called St. Bonaventure. So I was there for a few years as well. So I I've been around a little bit, but Toronto's definitely home.

SPEAKER_08 2:38

Oh well. Oh boy. Ontario and New York. I don't know. I I would think you'd just want to go back to Trinidad after that. These are jokes, people. These are jokes. Lighten up. These are jokes. Uh-oh. Kern appears. Oh, all right. You were froze there for a second, but I think we're good. So indeed, uh since you were eight, early age, you uh like me, yeah. I was my dad was a musician, so I dabbled in writing and recording music as well as writing stories. So I come from a creative family. What do you attribute your desire to want to write to?

SPEAKER_04 3:33

Luck. Honestly, I don't know. I didn't because I didn't come up from a creative family. My mom played uh a sport called nutball growing up, and so did my aunt. So I I watched them play those sports.

SPEAKER_08 3:43

Um, but no, I she she played nutball, and you're just a nut job. These are jokes, people. A good joke.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

You got it.

SPEAKER_08 3:54

You got it for the benefit of the transcript. He's laughing. These are jokes. Let's let's lighten up anyway. Go on. I my audience knows I cannot pass on the lame pun teasing jokes inner interjections. But yeah, so we're good.

SPEAKER_04 4:14

This is golden. This is golden. Um, but yeah, no, I don't know. I'm not sure. I think it's just you know, you're born with with whatever that thing is, and I was born with whatever that thing was, and uh it it turned out to be right. I know they should have had it back in back in the 80s.

SPEAKER_08 4:33

But again, jokes, people, jokes. So yeah, I thankfully uh God gave you a creative gene.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

Yeah, that's exactly it. That's exactly it, you know, and I've been thankful ever since. And I and where I'll give myself credit is that I I just stuck to it, I just pursued it. You know, I didn't give up on on that actual dream. And you know, I I feel I tell people all the time I feel very fortunate that like whatever God put in me that that I was able to just like nurture that gift for my entire life and and get to where I'm get to where I'm at right now. So you know, not everyone knows what they want to do when they're young and actually pursues that dream throughout their entire adulthood. And I've been fortunate enough to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_08 5:21

Yes, and as you said, it's like anything you can be born with a talent, uh but everything takes like encouragement and practice to nurture the skills, yes?

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And that and I had a lot of encouragement. My mom was very supportive. Um the people around me just like they they they recognized my talent as well and they were like super supportive. Like I have incredible friends who just like you know gassed me up a

Finding The Creative Gene Early

SPEAKER_04 5:58

little bit and and and really encouraged me to make sure that I kept going. And yeah, I mean that that support is is especially when you're a writer, and it probably any creative and any creative endeavor, but as a writer especially, you need a lot of support because there's a lot of rejection, there's a lot of emotional kind of strain. Um, there's just a lot, there's a lot of obstacles, there are a lot of obstacles, a lot of adversity you have to go through. So it's it's one of those careers where like if you want it, you really have to want it. You you you can't want anything else, you know what I mean? So because if you want something else, you're better off just doing that other thing, because this is this is extremely hard.

SPEAKER_08 6:35

Yeah, there's a lot of competition. Uh, I've written how to write a book and get it published, nurturing and mentoring and encouraging others that feel they have a story in them to be able to pull it from them and help them get it out. But thousands of new books every week. It is fierce competition out there. So you have to, and I go into in that book, understand not just writing, but marketing and promotion, like you're doing here. You're appearing on a podcast to talk about it and promote it and help sell books. Uh, otherwise, as you said, move on. Uh, if you're expecting to just, oh, I'll throw something out there and I'm gonna be the next J.K. Rowling or Stephen King and a millionaire, uh, you've got the wrong motivation. I hope you can be the next millionaire uh writer, but chances are, you know, if you can make a living at it, eke out a good leave living at it, then you're ahead of a whole lot of other people.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

You're still you're still a whole a whole lot ahead of most, like 95.7 percent of everybody, you know, like that to even be able to make some to be to get a royalty check in in publishing is is a wild, wild accomplishment. So if you're able to get a few royalty checks, you should feel proud. But yeah, again, it's it's being a novelist, being an author is just like it's one of those things. Like timing matters, um, the the publisher you're with matters, what what where where culture is at the moment matters. There are so many things that are out of your control that it makes it really difficult for you to predict anything with a career with any kind of accuracy, you know. So persistence, patience, timing, making sure you have other hobbies that are keeping you occupied, so like everything is not writing on being an author.

SPEAKER_08 8:42

I think it will induce writer's block. Yes. If if you're sitting down and expecting to be able to hammer something out between nine to five every day, you're gonna go insane. You're gonna have a lot of writer's block. Uh, but I want to go back again. The audience knows I can't help but joke. You had mentioned your friends. Oh, how great and wonderful they are. Well, that's nice of you to say that about them, but I'm sure you have a few friends that are assholes. Let's talk about them.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

I you know what? I I I I got lucky. I don't like there, there's none of my friends have ever doubted me. If anything, it's the opposite. They've been like they're probably shocked it's taking me this long before like my my career has taken off. You know what I mean? Like they they they have been ultimately the most supportive in in like yeah, they they buy all my books, they they come to my book launches, they they share my stories, they read my newsletters. Like, I don't I don't really have that situation with my friends. They're good. Yeah, I got lucky. That's good.

SPEAKER_08 9:49

Well, you are up in Canuckistanian land, so I mean, right, sorry, y'all so polite and friendly up there. I I'm in Detroit, right across the river from Windsor. I used to vacation over in Canada a lot, so yeah, I I've got a lot of Canadian friends and know the people, and indeed, they are bend over backwards polite up there to the good degree of it being a fault and irritating at times. Your reaction to that.

SPEAKER_04 10:27

We I mean we are we are nice to a fault at times. We do have that reputation for sure. Um but I think also too, like we've we've shown when when we need to be prideful and when we need to step up, we can also kind of step up and and you know get get to get get to get what we want. And and so like I feel like I have a little bit of that in me as well. Just like I do for me, like yes, it's been it's been and unless you're a Canadian Olympic hockey team in your face, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 11:04

All a good fun, people, all the good fun, point.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

You couldn't help that one. You couldn't help that. I couldn't work this, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 11:11

Yeah, just good-natured ribbing. In fact, on Suno AI Music Systems, uh, Max Scherzer, a former Detroit Tigers pitcher who went to Washington for a while, re-signed with Toronto Blue Jays. So I created a Maxine Scherzer disc track, and I'm trying to get a fun back and forth going, right? Just in fun, it's a mock disc track calling them Maxine Scherzer. You know, it's tongue

Rejection And The Reality Of Publishing

SPEAKER_08 11:48

in cheek, just meant to be some fun, right? So I'm waiting for a Kanuckistanian lander to respond with a tiger's diss track.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

No, you you got it.

SPEAKER_08 12:03

In fact, at the end of this episode, I'm gonna write my note, uh, Max Distrack. So I I'm gonna tack that on the end of this episode. Listen, people, things are so serious we have to lighten up and have a sense of humor, yes?

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Absolutely. Lightness is needed right now.

SPEAKER_08 12:32

Yeah, there's so much darkness, so much anger and hate and resentment and all those negative emotions. We we need more positivity. My entire Life and Living series of books. In fact, I'll include that too. Life song. Uh uh, books is about that, right? We need to be the light, right? We need to sew good, we need to share goodness, acts of random kindness towards others, fun and light and good, because there's so much darkness in the this fallen world, yes?

SPEAKER_04 13:17

Absolutely, absolutely. And I and I and I think um, you know, you making jokes, us, us writing books, us having this conversation, like this is this is all part of it.

SPEAKER_08 13:28

Yeah, yeah. It's like you're up in Canada, so let me I I quote often rush, not Limbaugh the talk show guy, the Canadian rock trio, free will. We are all given free will. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice, not from the Bible, but very biblical, shall be known by your fruits. If you don't sow good, you allow others make choices for you. You are complicit in the evil you allow. You are complicit and at fault, at least in part for the rotten fruit we're all trying to choke down because you didn't sow good fruit. Yes?

SPEAKER_04 14:17

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's accountability, you know. And we're living in this, we're living in this world. You know, we're living in a world that we shape. We're living with the people who we decide to live with, we're living with the leaders who we voted for.

SPEAKER_08 14:30

Um, so there's well uh unfortunately we get stuck with some we don't vote for, too, though, at times, but yeah, that's a whole whole other thing. Um, not talking about any administration or we're not talking uh politics today. I just a general broad statement. Apply it as you like. Uh anyway, let's talk what is uh it's like being a parent. You don't ask a parent, oh, which is your favorite child? No, I'm not gonna do that to you. What like what's your favorite book you've written? No, what is the latest book you have published out there?

SPEAKER_04 15:18

Um in 2024 I had two books published, and then there was us and uh then a middle grade book I published with Scholastic called Is There Boy Like Me? Those are my two latest, but I have a couple, I think I have two coming out this year as well. So we'll see.

SPEAKER_08 15:33

Would those be children or young adults?

SPEAKER_04 15:36

No, back um regul like regular adult book, and then one is a follow-up to that, to the uh scholastic book. So that one will be a middle grade book as well.

SPEAKER_08 16:46

Okay, so it could be considered a young adult genre.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Uh the scholastic one is like there are young adults who read it. Like I've I've met some high school students who enjoyed the book as well.

SPEAKER_08 16:57

So yeah, I would say I I think we're kind of similar in that I I too try to write in a way that

Humor As A Choice In Dark Times

SPEAKER_08 17:06

it's a more broader age range, so young adults can read it and enjoy aspects, and older people can, you know, but get off my lawn! Oh, these young kids don't know nothing, you know, can also get something out of it, right? Try to bring the generations together.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

I'm with you. I'm with you. We all we all need to be reading this reading stuff, so hey.

SPEAKER_08 17:37

And uh what was your first book?

SPEAKER_04 17:41

The first book I ever published was a book I self-published, uh, an auto fiction novel type or novella titled Um Thoughts of a Fractured Soul. Yeah, that was back in 2014. So that was the first book I wrote. Took me about six years to write that book, just wrapping my head around how to actually be an author, about like how to actually craft the book the way I wanted to craft the book, and just learning. Like it took me a long time just to learn, even though, like I said, I've been I knew I want to be an author for a long time. I went to school studying English literature, I took all the right courses. It's just writing a novel is extremely technical, and I I didn't feel technically equipped when I was writing my first novel, my first book. So it took me a while to kind of wrap my head around that, and then also like life stuff as well, you know. Uh but once that one was out, it was just like everything from then on has been like let's go, like a book every two years after that.

SPEAKER_08 18:35

Yeah, but that life stuff, of course, is fodder for the books. So I'm glad you mentioned novella for those viewing on the behind the scenes five video platforms, sneak preek video, as opposed to the 25 plus audio only channels, or might be reading in the transcript. You saw me reaching for a note since you mentioned novella. I want to make the official uh outline of what a short story typically under 7,500 words, 36,500 characters, which translates roughly to about 30 pages or less. A novelette, which I have a few of those, ranges from 7,500 to 17,000 words, uh 30 to 68 pages, a novella that you mentioned, generally 17,500 to 40,000 words or about 70 to 160 pages. These are general accepted norms in the industry, but your mileage may vary, as they say, right? Uh, a novel that I say considered to be 40,000 words or more. And I dare say I created a term, I like making up my own words and terms. I invented the novel X. Novel X? EXT. To me, a novel should have a more defined page range. There's a big difference between a 300-page novel and War and Peace. To me, War and Peace should be a novel X category. And it's extended novel. Anything over 450 pages to me should be a novel X extended novel, right? Because today's Twitter.

SPEAKER_04 20:39

200 pages is different from 600 pages. You're right. That's fair. It's a full other, it's a full other book.

SPEAKER_08 20:47

Exactly. So to me, I'm trying to get accepted as a new norm, that new category. Because indeed, today's Twitter attention span, especially, everybody wants short. That's where a novella or novelet, why I'm writing novelettes as opposed to novels now. People want shorter plus the expense. Books cost money. People need food. They don't need a book. So we need to work to keep the cost down.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

Yes? I'm going to start using the world word novel X. I'm going to try to I'm going to try to get it get it going for you. I'm going to try to get it going for you. I'll make sure to give you the credit, Joseph. But I'm going to try to get it going for you.

SPEAKER_08 21:33

Just remember where you heard it first. Yeah. Proper accreditation and attribution, please. Thank you. But yeah, I I welcome the help in trying to get the publishing world to recognize that. Exactly. Because traditional publishers are usually set in their ways. Well, this is at the I've had had the argument with my publisher with my terror strikes coming soon, new city near you novel that came out through Illumify Media slash McHenry Press.

Kern’s New Books And Who They’re For

SPEAKER_08 22:12

You know, I wanted a different cover. We settled on this one. I wanted a few things. You gotta pick your battles, right? Publishers are, uh, but this is the way we've always done it. Yeah, this is the internet age, though. This isn't Shakespearean times, this isn't heaving waste times, these are different times. In fact, I've got a constitutionalist video exclusive where I joke, I'm not Shakespeare. That's not a disc to Shakespeare. I love Shakespeare. I quote Shakespeare and Longfellow and others in my books. But these are internet times in my books. I put bonus material online links to the internet. So it's like a DVD director's. Cut you get bone, right? You've gotta offer and you can borrow that too. Start doing that, right? We have to offer more for people's money nowadays.

SPEAKER_04 23:21

Yeah, yeah. So that's value has to be and saying because they're paying ten dollars for infinite amounts of music or infinite amounts of mu of of uh film or infinite amount of TV, so we gotta give them something for the $30, $40 we're charging, right?

SPEAKER_08 23:36

Absolutely. Yeah, and you're in Kanuka Stanland, so yeah, the costs are even worse than here in the US. But yeah, so my novel I wrote so I could get them out around $12 US as opposed to my novel, which is $20 US. And I'm also writing some short story Kindle exclusives that I can put up for 99 cents, trying to be kinder to people's budgets with bonus material. Go online and get more for your money. So then please, by all means, borrow that and help spread that, right? Publishers, wake up in new times.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

Yeah, I mean publishing is is is a typically kind of slow industry anyway, so I I think it'll be a while before anything just over there. Plus, I mean it's still hot, it's still a healthy industry overall, so I I I feel like they feel if it ain't broke, right?

SPEAKER_08 24:42

That's the problem, yeah. They there's no real incentive to change things because they're making money doing it the way they've always done it. So that could change very quickly though.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

Like usually look at music. Music was great until it wasn't, right? It can happen real fast, like in a couple of years fast.

SPEAKER_08 25:02

Yeah, and and it's changed again overnight, as I said. Uh my maxine scherzer disc track and my life and living series of books theme song, which I will check on both at the end of this episode. SUNY AI Music System. You know, I describe what I want, it spits out some lyrics, I refine the lyrics, it makes the song. I used to write and record music. It used to take ten hours to write a song and ten days to record it. Now you do it all in ten minutes online, right? So yeah, it's all changed. Self-publishing has changed the publishing. But I want to talk to you now specifically about writing. Uh because I had one person in a review talk about run-on sentences. Well, like beauty, that's in the eye of the beholder. The AP, the Chicago, the Oxford writing style guide. Do not define a run-on sentence as 12 words or more, or whatever. It's in the eye of the beholder. And sometimes, I don't know if you believe this or not. I'll get your reaction. Sometimes it calls for a long sentence with a bunch of commas and some semicolons because it fits the character and the situation. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_04 26:39

I totally agree. I I I think it's important to learn all the rules, but then like figure out how to bend and twist them and break them at your at your leisure, you know, and at the at the as long as it's for the betterment of the actual story and the actual plot or the actual character arc or whatever. As long as it's like for you're doing it with with intention and not just doing it to to show off that you can write, then it's it's totally I do the most run on sentences and and so I start sentences with and and I start like it's all these things that are supposed to be, you know, published in the book. Taboo, yeah, taboo, like nah. I just do it because again, it it makes sense for the story and makes sense for the character.

SPEAKER_08 27:18

And English is not what it was during Shakespeare. I I I write in American English, not Oxford English. Not not the king's speech. Things for different times. So indeed, uh different things for different times. But yeah, that's I remember now where I was gonna go. Reviews that times drive me crazy too. If you're gonna get hung up on the grammar, run out of shit

First Book Lessons And Writing Craft

SPEAKER_08 28:01

and it should be broken into I don't care. Sorry, not sorry, I don't care about your technical grammar review. Did you get the point of the damn story? Or not. That's what matters. Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Tell me if you like the story, if you understood the story, if there was something about the story that was interesting, something about the characters you didn't like or like. Yeah. I I would rather you not write uh uh 250-word review about me doing uh not including a comma.

SPEAKER_08 28:39

And starting a sentence with a hand.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 28:43

I don't care. Shut up! I'm sorry for those that lost reviews like that, buddy. Shut up! I don't care! You don't like my writing? Read somebody else! I can't go read Shakespeare again! I'm not writing Shakespeare. Oh, anyway, time has flown. Uh thank you. I didn't say your name enough, Kern Carter, for coming on. Do you have a website for people to find you?

SPEAKER_04 29:18

Uh yeah, just go to Kern Carter.com. If you go to Kern Carter.com, you'll find everything you need to know about me.

SPEAKER_08 29:25

All right, that sounds good. Thank you so much, Kern Carter, for coming on. It was a great you're a good, fun-loving guy like me. That's great. We had some fun. Uh stuff is too serious. I don't want my Saturday monologues, they are often very serious stuff. So, guest appearances. I like to be more lighthearted, and thank you for being part of this episode.

SPEAKER_04 29:55

I appreciate it. This was a good time.

SPEAKER_08 29:59

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SPEAKER_06 32:00

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SPEAKER_00 32:45

Look, I know this is difficult, but you have to listen to me.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

How can you ask me to be calm right now? This is too much.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

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Novellas Novel X And Reader Attention

SPEAKER_00 33:29

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SPEAKER_05 33:38

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SPEAKER_01 34:19

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SPEAKER_03 35:46

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SPEAKER_02 38:11

Give it what you got and give it even more.

Style Rules Run-Ons And Reviews

SPEAKER_02 38:19

Just give me a bad.

Where To Find Kern And Closing Promos

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Don't fall into the request. Come back here from here to the end.

SPEAKER_10 41:25

Life can be heavy like this metal anthem. Can't save them all, but sure can some be best be good. Not cause you have to, but cause you should.

SPEAKER_09 41:52

Every day and night. Leaves him freedom in making his voice heard. Shed his message over all the earth. God loves it, does it all you do? Sound strong and God bless you.

SPEAKER_07 42:15

Like and subscribe to Christitutionalist Politics Podcast and share episodes. We need your help.

SPEAKER_08 42:24

Thank you for having tuned in to another Christitutionalist podcast show. I really appreciate that you stop by. Again, please like, share, subscribe. We need you to help spread the constitutionalist movement. Thank you again. Take care. God bless. Love you all.