010: Do You Really Need SEO? How to Know When It Matters (and When It Doesn’t)

Most of us didn’t start our businesses dreaming about keywords and algorithms — we just wanted to help people and share what we love. But at some point, we realize: if people can’t find us, we can’t help them. 

In this episode, we’re talking about when SEO actually matters, when it’s okay to follow your gut instead, and how to make those choices without losing your voice or your sanity.

Listen in to hear:

• What SEO really means (in normal-people language)
• When it’s worth the time and energy — and when it’s not
• How we’ve handled SEO in our own blogs, websites, and podcast titles
• The risks of ignoring search completely (and how to balance strategy with soul)
  
  

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Transcript

Becky Brown  0:01 
If you're a Christian woman, building a business and want it to be purposeful and profitable, we've got you covered. I'm Becky.

Laurie Graham  0:08 
And I'm Laurie. We have both built successful businesses that we love without losing our faith, humor or our sanity. This is Smart Soulful Business.

Becky Brown  0:17 
Real conversations to help your business fit your life and not the other way around. Hey and welcome back to Smart Soulful Business. We are Becky and Laurie.

Laurie Graham  0:31 
Together, we help Christian women build businesses that are soulful, strategic, and successful.

Becky Brown  0:37 
In our last episode, we talked about how to choose the right experts, coaches, and consultants, people who actually get you and your business. And today, we're kind of staying in that same lane of clarity and confidence, but we're zooming in on something that sometimes confuses a lot of people. So today, we are going to be talking about SEO. So this is something that is so important and totally changed my business. Like this is what totally changed my business. I mentioned on the last two episodes that the course I took on SEO, there was this huge light bulb moment for me where I thought I understood this, and I totally didn't. I was so doing it wrong. So if you are not familiar with this term, SEO stands for Search Engine Optimization. So it basically means optimizing your content, wherever you are creating it, however you are creating it, by using the words that people are actually searching for, so that your audience can actually find you and find the solutions that they're looking for. And that's the beauty of SEO, right? It's this beautiful pairing between getting the people that who need your content, to your content. That is the purpose of SEO. So you may have heard this term a million times already, or this may be a completely new discussion for you, optimizing for search, using keywords, thinking about algorithms, but for you, where you are right now in your business, what does that actually mean for a small, purpose-driven business? What does that look like? When does it matter? And when can you break the rules of SEO to stay authentic? And what does that look like? So we're going to wrestle with you through some of those tensions today in today's episode. So if you have ever wondered whether SEO is worth your time, or if you've secretly thought, I don't want to write for Google, I'm writing for God, this is the episode for you. So let's talk about what's changed, what really matters, and how to show up online in a way that helps people actually find what you are here to offer. So we're going to start here with why SEO still matters. So SEO, like I mentioned, it just means helping your people find you. This is not about manipulation. It's just about communication and search today looks really different, than it used to when I first learned SEO, it looks so different because today, people aren't just googling. They're searching on Pinterest and YouTube and using AI tools. And the question is, does your content help them find what they're actually looking for? Yeah. So if God wants your people to see it, He will make a way. Have you heard that before?

Laurie Graham  3:23 
Becky. Early on, I would see Christians writing these big blogs and saying, and it was always the women saying, 'Well, if God wants people to see it, He's going to make a way'. And I would just be like, can we just be smart? Can we just be smart?

Becky Brown  3:38 
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I've heard this so many times, and what breaks my heart is when I hear people saying that, and they're struggling so much. They're asking the question, 'why isn't my business going anywhere?', when they're holding this belief. And gosh, that's hard to see. So wisdom and stewardship go hand in hand. We really believe that here at Smart Soulful Business, that's why we have both Smart and Soulful in the title, because we believe that wisdom and stewardship can go hand in hand. And SEO is not unspiritual, but it is strategic. It's how we get to partner with God, with what He is already doing in our own hearts, in our own passions, and SEO is something that helps that message travel farther to the people who need it. So Laurie, I want to hear from you. What is one time that you realized it was like a light bulb moment for you? You realized that SEO made a difference, like when a post or a podcast episode suddenly took off because people were actually searching for that exact phrase.

Laurie Graham  4:44 
You know, it's so funny, because most of when I realized SEO made a difference was before I really started my business. I had a little blog, but it was one. It was watching you Becky, because you would literally say, oh my gosh, this many people found my post and I did this keyword. And. I'm like, What is she talking about? But I almost learned more like, and we say this about what we're doing as we partner with women building businesses, I learned from what you did, and kind of started with that already in my head, but I will talk about the thing that popped in mind when you asked that was when we changed the name of my business. So when I started my blog, I work in the Small Church Space. For those of you who are maybe listening for the first time, that's my main business, at least my main one up till now, we'll see if that shifts right. But it's my main it's my mainstay, right? And I speak in the Small Church Space, but my blog, my website, was called The Creative Little Church. The Creative Little Church. We were doing a lot of creative things in worship, in smaller churches, and 'Creative' was such a word for me, the 'Little Church' was like, this little church is doing these amazing things. And as I grew my business, even the people on my advisory board couldn't say it. They would literally say, well, The 'Little Church thing', The 'Creative Little Church', and they couldn't say it, like they couldn't say it. So I'm getting the SEO here right, like, because people wonder how to name things, how SEO makes a difference? And we did. And just if you're starting out naming your business, just pick the name that's there. Done is better than perfect. You'll probably change your name or your brand or your colors along the way, because I did. That's how I can say I did it. And I had a big audience. I had a big following. Some people were unhappy with the name change. They thought it was too big of a risk, but we changed the website name and our business name to Small Church Ministry. How boring is that for this creative ADHD girl. You know what? I mean? Like, I mean, it's not punchy, it's not sexy, it's not, you know, exciting. It's called Small Church Ministry. When we made the name shift, when we started doing its things exploded in a completely different way. Because the SEO, because that's people aren't searching for the 'Creative Little Church'.

Becky Brown  7:03 
Yeah, they are, for sure, searching for and you even have this phrase all over your website, 'Solutions for small churches'. That's what they're looking for. How do I do this? Women's ministry in my small church, children's ministry in my small church. And small church is what people are searching for.

Laurie Graham  7:18 
Yeah? So my fun name that I was so emotionally connected to was like, really holding me back. So SEO, like, that's the biggest example I can give you, but Becky, for you. And let's flip this a little bit. What's one time you ignored SEO because you knew SEO? You knew it. You were learning all along the way. What's one time you ignored it and regretted it? Like, did you ever have a clever title that nobody found because no one was searching those words and by title you all, both of us, have blogs, and so we're talking about the title here. We're going to talk about everything else in a minute too, but we're specifically talking about, like, the titles of blogs, or maybe you have other things.

Becky Brown  7:57 
Oh yeah, there's all kinds of things that I've titled over the years. But, I mean, I'm just gonna backtrack to when I thought I understood SEO, and I really didn't understand SEO. So they, so I was following all the SEO rules, like people were telling me everywhere, and I'm a good learner, guys. Like, I pay attention and I learn, and I apply it right away. So I was hearing people say, take the thing people are searching for. Take that phrase, those words, and put them in these places all over your posts. And I was doing that, except I had no idea. Well, what's the phrase people are looking for? I didn't know. And so I was making up these random things from like, pieces of my blog, but they were the creative like, it was like, more like, email titles. You know how email titles, we want to stir up some curiosity. We want people to click. That's not quite the same for blog post titles. Blog post titles, you want to tell people what they're going to be reading about, what to expect. And so I had all these. I actually went back to look for this episode. I had all these old blog post titles that were things like, You are always on my mind dot, dot, dot. Empty arms. Withdrawal. Seeing Beyond. And you guys, what is that article about? I don't even remember. I wrote the posts and I was reading these titles, and I'm like, what was that even about? So it doesn't tell you what you're actually getting. And nobody is searching for 'empty arms'. 'You are always on my mind.' Nobody is searching for those things. So I thought I understood it. I was following the rules. I was putting them in my H1 and H2s, and like I was following the rules with the wrong phrases. So they felt so inspiring and deep and creative to me, but they weren't actually reaching my audience and what they were actually searching for. They don't tell anybody what I'm actually talking about. So that was my missing piece with SEO that I think is really important to bring up here.

Laurie Graham  9:50 
Yeah, you know. And we're gonna get really practical and talk about what good SEO looks like. But Becky, I want to acknowledge something to you right now, because, like, your heart, like. I get it like, it's like we have these deep connections to things like, I think this speaks to who you are as a person, Becky, that you care so deeply, and you have this, this connection to these poetic phrases and like, God is poetic, like there is so much beauty in here. And I think it also speaks to who you are as a person, that you want to have a bigger impact, that you want to reach more people, because you were willing to let go of this deeply personal like I just love this so much, and sometimes we have to let go. And I also have seen in your life Becky, that you still have these things that are deeply meaningful and metaphoric and and personal to you. You still have that in your life. You're not getting rid of that. You're just putting some smart SEO into the business things that matter. So I just wanted to acknowledge that, that I just love your heart. So okay, let's get super practical. What does good SEO look like right now, especially like we're saying, 2025 and, the principles we're talking about, if you happen to hear this in 2026 or, you know, 2030 down the road, the principles we're talking about are still solid, but we always want to stay up to date with some changes. So what does good SEO look like right now, especially for small or soulful, and I would say both, you know, small, soulful, smart businesses that we're developing right, search has changed a lot. You already mentioned that Becky like with AI, but when you search things now, you're not just pulling up Google. You're getting AI answers. Pinterest is popping in, podcast apps, like all of it, but the heart of SEO has never really changed, like we'll talk about different things that have morphed and switched, that we need to pay attention to. But clear, honest content, honest I'm gonna talk about that, clear, honest content still wins. We don't have to chase every new algorithm. We don't have to be like, Oh my gosh, because that would drive us crazy, like we can't even keep up with every new algorithm on every platform, every search engine. But the reality is, is we still just need to be findable. It's about being findable. So Becky, can you talk through some of the top spots where SEO really matters, like podcast titles, blog posts, Pinterest, names, etc,

Becky Brown  12:11 
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I think that what you're talking about here with SEO is, I think the word that I really want to tie to SEO for all of you listening is clarity. SEO gives clarity. What are people clicking for? People have like, now we live in world full of scams, you know, like people have to trust what they're clicking on. And so there's some clarity there in when we're talking about SEO, too. So from what we so my main gig is my website. SEO has been a big income earner for me with Google traffic and ads on my website. So for me, I would say where it does matter and has mattered most, is in the title, of course. So in my blog post, titles in my H2 headings in my blog posts, and in my meta descriptions. I would also say a big one for me is on Pinterest, using those specific words or word phrases that people are actually looking for. So for me, recently, a lot of people are coming to my website for Bible verses on friendship, that post has actually been up for a couple years, and just recently, like Bible verses on friendship is getting really popular. People have also been searching for journal prompts, Christian journal prompts that's been bringing me a lot of traffic this year, and it's just something really specific that people are looking for. And like you were talking earlier, it's not that I give up the creative, like personal, reaching my audience things, I just place it differently. So I usually have an introduction of a personal story of this is why I'm writing this. Oh, and here's your journal prompts kind of thing. So I want to know from you, Laurie, which areas of SEO do you think are kind of misunderstood? Where do people overthink it? Or they just follow really bad SEO advice.

Laurie Graham  14:02 
I think one of the things that gets misunderstood, which you just touched on, is that it's just about blogs, like, you know, like, for me, it's about what's on Amazon for my book title, my book cover. For me, I even think SEO when I'm leaving reviews on other people's podcasts or books. You taught me that Becky, because even when you're leaving somebody a review, if you want it to be helpful, that is an SEO thing, like, what words are we using? Are we using the words that that fit their brand kind of a thing. But a couple places that I think SEO gets, well, we'll talk about overthinking and also bad advice. But bad advice that popped up a few years ago, which I still see this being given, is keyword stuffing, like when we put too many keywords in. Like, have you ever read something or followed something that, like, it doesn't even sound like natural human speak, because there's all these words, and people used to do that to be more searchable. That's terrible. You know, like, keywords are important. We want to drop them in as as we see fit, as they feel natural, but not keyword stuffing. I think that's terrible. I think not paying attention to SEO with every platform, anywhere that you speak, it could even be like for us, even like Facebook ads, you know, like we're watching titles, we're watching things like that. So I think keywords are not just for blog posts. Keyword stuff, stuffing is is terrible. Consistent naming is so important, like with Smart Soulful Business, like Becky and I, like we, paid so much attention to what, what to name this, to make sure that our our podcast looks like it goes with our Facebook community, soulful, strategic as well as our website, as well as our blog posts, like consistent naming, our handles, our domains, things like that. And I also think that when we come to overthinking, like when we overthink it, SEO is important to pay attention to. It's foundational. Like, to me, it's it's way up there, high priority. But it's also not everything. Like, there's a danger of thinking it's either or, like it's black and white, like you really can write for SEO and serve your audience really well. Like paying attention to SEO is not compromising your business, your integrity. Like we can do the both and of paying attention to SEO, writing for SEO, titling things for Search Engine Optimization to help people find us and still have authentic, helpful content. Is there anything else Becky that I'm missing in this area?

Becky Brown  16:35 
You know, as you were talking, I was just thinking I saw a reel recently on Instagram that was talking about how now, Instagram can read everything that you create, so it reads your captions, it reads your title, it reads your description, it reads your your like, what you are actually saying in your video, it reads all of that. And I know isn't that cool. It's cool, but I feel like we have to go back to like. Why? Why are they even doing SEO? Why was it even created? Well, it was created to get people to what they were looking for. And so I'm going to go back to the word clarity, instead of writing for SEO, writing for clarity. Yes, that's so much better. So and again, like, it's not that you it's not that every I think SEO can be, you can overthink it, and it can keep you stuck when you when you're sitting down and you want to, you have something on your heart that you want to share with your audience on Instagram. Let's take Instagram. So you have this beautiful picture, you had this wonderful moment with God, and you want to share it with your people, because you feel like you have this insight that God spoke to you, but now you're like, Oh my gosh. What's the keyword that fits here? What am I supposed to share? And then you don't make the post. So that's what we don't want to happen. And so is it wrong for you to post on Instagram without a keyword chosen? No, no, it's not. But if the regular pattern of your business has no keywords, that's where it becomes an issue. But like, yeah, you should, you should share that insight that God shared with you on Instagram, even if it doesn't have a keyword. You just should.

Laurie Graham  18:06 
So great. Well. And that goes back to the just the the reality that we write or create content or produce products to help people, like, that's what we do. SEO comes in to say, Now, how do we get this in front of people? Right? Like, we don't want to make decisions on what we're producing by SEO, but you know, it's like, one comes first, right?

Becky Brown  18:27 
Yeah, well, I'm kind of what we were just talking about. Okay, so clarity doesn't mean conformity. So there are times when the most value-honoring choice is to break the SEO rules, and you do it on purpose. It's an intention. Yes. So there are, there are absolutely moments when creative, emotional, like I was talking about those spiritual insights, when that matters more than search reach. You know, naming your business, brand, podcast, we've talked about all those things. But also you can't break rules that you don't fully understand. So we want you to understand the world of SEO. We want you to have spiritual insights, and we want those to come together in so that you can make intentional, smart and soulful business decisions. Yes, so Laurie, have you ever chosen a name or a title that wasn't SEO friendly, but it totally fit your brand heart?

Laurie Graham  19:23 
I have, and I struggled with one of them, and this is just, it's just a podcast episode on my with my other business, and we went with it, even though it wasn't SEO. This has to do with, like, phrases that we use internally with our businesses. I don't mean internally, but I mean like with our community. So I talk about ministry silos in churches, that churches, small churches shouldn't have all these ministry silos where the Children's Ministry is independent of the Adult Ministry, and the Women's Ministry and the prayer. We talk about how we can carpool together to go in the same direction in ministry, and it's like synergy, right? So I talk about ministry silos and I talk about ministry carpooling. Okay? Now somebody's gonna search silos. They're gonna find farm stuff, right? Like, I understand that that's not a normal thing we say, but in my community of thousands of people, they know what that is. And I think it's also a visual that I want that to someday be a common place in church ministry, and even carpooling, with ministry carpooling, like, we're all going together in the same place, like, let's save on gas and go together. And so I think some of those things for me, the phrases that are who I am, that I want to coin. And I'd love it if someday somebody searched ministry silos, and they don't even have to know that Laurie Graham is the one that came up with it, right? So, yeah. So those are a couple times when I break SEO rules.

Becky Brown  20:46 
Well, that's what I'm loving too. It's like, you are creating SEO, you are creating the keywords that don't exist yet. I love that.

Laurie Graham  20:53 
And I just think it's taking fun. And you and I have talked about even Smart Soulful Business, we're gonna have fun. We're gonna find joy in our ministry, or we're gonna stop doing it. Like. And I think that's one of the things you and I are gonna bring to the Christian business world for women, is, yeah, this should be fun. We should find a lot of joy in what we're doing. So I think that's a reason to break SEO now and then too. Okay so Becky, what would you say to somebody who's scared to deviate, afraid that choosing alignment over alignment, personal alignment, soulful alignment over optimization is going to hurt them. What would you say?

Becky Brown  21:25 
Yeah, I get that. I had some of that fear. I would say this is also when it's a good time to throw AI into this conversation. AI depends on keywords. AI can only study and learn from what is there created already. And right now, there is a lot of talk in the blogging space about how to survive as a blogger, as a website owner, in this AI-driven world where you can get really quick answers and you don't have to click anybody's website. So a lot of what they're talking about right now is it's going to be rough for us for us for a little while, and if you can stick with it and continue doing the things that you know works so good, SEO, clarity and clarity and connection with your audience, writing in a personal way that engages your reader and gives them things that they need. If you can continue writing like that, we as humans will continue to stay set apart in this world, and there will still be a space for us.

Laurie Graham  22:13 
Because God's never made another you, God's never made another you. He's never made another me. So our lingo, our voice, our personality, like so good, so good, to not be scared like we should deviate a little bit, because it's what makes us unique, right?

Becky Brown  22:42 
Yeah, and we've talked about in other episodes, how Laurie and I we we tell you, because we have done this so many times, we don't want you making decisions out of a place of fear. We want you making decisions out of a place of inspiration, out of a decision, a space of faith, out of a space of courage, out of a space of passion, of care for others, yeah, like those. Those are the things that we want, driving your business, not fear. We don't want fear driving your decision, of your business decisions.

Laurie Graham  23:05 
You know. And I want to add to that, we don't want you making decisions based on fear or conformity or sameness, like because that's not how God works. Okay, so we are. We are running out of time. So let's get down to some simple filters that we use here at Soulful, Smart, Soulful Business to make SEO choices without losing alignment or who we are. So let me just give you a couple things. These are questions Becky and I ask a lot, does this choice help the right people find me faster? We're looking at titles, we're looking at keywords, we're looking at Pinterest. Does this choice? This is a great filter. It's a great filter. Question, does this choice help the right people find me faster? This next question gets me in the heart. Am I being clear or just clever? I like being clever. I like being cute, I like being sassy. But along with that, it's got to be clear. Am I being clear or just clever? A third question is, does this word choice build trust or is it just trendy? I have to catch myself on that sometimes like and to me, that question goes into even sounding generic. So if we build trust when people know it's us, when it's in alignment with who we are and what we're teaching what our brand is, which goes to speaking that we need to know what our brand is. We'll do that in a new episode. And am I avoiding SEO out of fear, or choosing it with wisdom, right, or choosing against it with wisdom? So the four great questions, does this choice help the right people find me faster. Am I being clear or just clever? Third question, does this word choice build trust, or is it just trendy? And the fourth great question to ask is, am I avoiding SEO out of fear, or am I choosing something different because I'm being wise? Great questions.

Becky Brown  24:57 
Yeah. And when we when we make SEO decisions through clarity, integrity and purpose, our content just travels further without losing its creativity and its impact. So you don't have to chase algorithms, but you do need to show up with language that people can find. So we are going to help you do that every week on the podcast. We want you to learn and then do. So we give you a free Action Guide every single week to put what we've talked about today into action in your unique business. So this week's free action guide is called SEO Made Simple, a Soulful Strategy Checklist. So it is a short, two page printable that helps you understand what SEO actually means and what it doesn't mean. Identify where SEO matters most in your business, choose aligned keywords for clarity and connection, and know when it's okay to deviate on purpose, and it's designed to help you make those confident, intentional choices that will keep your message both searchable and soulful.

Laurie Graham  25:55 
I want to say to this resource is one of those you're going to want to print it out and like, if you've got a physical bulletin board or a desk mat or something, these are questions we go back to. So it's one of those resource sheets that this isn't just do it once. This is literally a guide every time you create something.

Becky Brown  26:12 
Yeah, absolutely, yes. So if this conversation today gave you clarity, please leave us a review and share it with a friend who is also building something meaningful online. SEO doesn't have to feel like just tech talk. It's just how your message travels further. So grab your free action guide SEO made simple a Soulful Strategy Checklist, and take five minutes to just make sure that your purpose can actually be found by the people you're looking for. We'll see you next time and until then, go team.