040: From Survival Mode to Long-Term Vision

Survival mode can keep a business alive, but it isn't meant to become a long-term strategy. 

In this honest conversation, Becky interviews Laurie about how financial scarcity quietly reshapes the way we think, lead, and make decisions. 

Together, they explore what it looks like to move from building out of necessity to building with renewed purpose, health, and long-term vision.

Inside this episode:

• How financial scarcity shrinks long-term thinking
• Why survival mode is a human thing (not a failure)
• The difference between building from pressure and building from purpose
• What a healthier, more sustainable next chapter can look like
• How to recognize when it's time to build differently

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• The Smart Soulful Business Facebook Community: smartbusiness.thrivecart.com/soulful-strategy-community

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🎙 Thanks for tuning in to Smart Soulful Business Podcast! See you next week!

MORE FROM BECKY & LAURIE

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Transcript

​[00:00:00] 

Becky: Welcome back to the Smart Soulful Business podcast. Last week, Laurie interviewed me about the different seasons of my entrepreneurial journey and how my business has evolved alongside my life over the years, and today we're turning the tables. So I am gonna be interviewing Laurie. One of the themes that keeps showing up this summer is that businesses have seasons because people have seasons.

As our lives change, the way we lead, the way we define success, and even the reasons that we build our businesses can change, too.[00:01:00] 

Laurie: Okay, I just, I have to I have to, I'm interrupting you already so early. This is so important. Like, how many times do we think, like, businesses should look the same even when our lives are transitioning or up in, you know, just up in all sorts of, you know, conflict or, you know, grief or change in so many ways?

And so I love that we're talking about this.

Becky: Oh.

Laurie: I just love it

Becky: Well, I, yeah, already we're giving you permission that we needed to hear often.

Laurie: Yeah, which we didn't hear from the people that were coaching us or the people that we followed. Like, I've never heard this conversation done in the way that we're having it, so I love it

Becky: Me too. Okay. So Laurie, you recently said something that really stood out to me. You said, "For the first time in a long time, survival isn't driving as many of my decisions." And I just want you to unpack that a little bit more for us and explain how that's related to your business kind of transitioning with you over the last several years.

Laurie: [00:02:00] Okay, first off, I hate that I said that. Like, I have this feeling like I should never have said survival was driving my decisions, or like I, I hate that I was in that place. And, you know, I also love that we're talking about it because I think it's, I think it's very real. 

Becky: Yeah 

Laurie: It's funny hearing your own words played back to you though, like, "Oh gosh, I said that," and it makes me cringe. I also think it's pretty true that I was making decisions in survival mode for a while, but I think I wanna clarify just a little bit as we unpack it. When I think like survival was driving a lot of my decisions, it wasn't driving my mission or my values or my passion. Like for me, it was financial and practical.

The last couple years I had a tremendous amount of pressure. Like, I felt like the walls were closing in on me personally. And, you know, as we talk about on, in so many other places, Becky, like our lives are not as compartmentalized as we would [00:03:00] like them to be.

Becky: Yeah.

Laurie: Yeah, it's not like family's over here and friends are over here and business is over here and church is over here. Like it is all intermixed. So when I felt like the walls were closing in around me personally, it affected everything. And business-wise, I hate to even declare how much I was panicking. I panicked a lot. I was worried about not making enough money. I was worried about taking care of my team. I was worried about paying my bills.

You know, I had a talk with an old high school friend who has a business that is, it's a huge business, and we were talking about money with entrepreneurs and how, you know, when you say you make this much money, people think you keep it, you know? And like, and she just said, "I have a lot of mouths to feed." And I loved how she, I just was picturing the mama bird like feeding all the baby birds.

Becky: That's sweet.

Laurie: And she has a huge team. Like her revenue is way, you know, in the seven figures, you know? And for her, like if it dips, like she has that like, how am I paying my team, right? So that's where I was panicking, and I was also worried about paying my own personal [00:04:00] bills.

It was just a lot of pressure. And I think at the time, I felt all the pressure, right? But looking back, I don't think I realized how much it was shaping how I was, like, leading my business even. Like, that kind of stress just kind of, I don't know what I'm picturing. I'm doing it with my fingers. It like, webs out. 

Becky: Yeah.

Laurie: In a lot of ways. And I do know that I was not asking, you were walking with me through this. I was not asking, "Where do I want this business to be in five years?" And normally, I am so future thinking. I was asking a lot, "How do I get through this month or this pay period?"

Becky: Yes.

Laurie: And if you're ever there, wherever you're listening from, I think it's really important to call out. It's not because we're not strong enough or whatever, like, that our minds go there, right? But this is what survival does. Like, it narrows our focus. And I know, Becky, you talk about, scarcity. Scarcity?

Becky: Oh yeah, scarcity mindset. Yep.

Laurie: Scarcity [00:05:00] mindset.

Becky: Not enough.

Laurie: Yeah, it's kind of that same thing. It narrows our focus, right?

So anyway, I've been processing this a lot lately because I'm coming out of that. Like, I'm not processing that I was in survival mode. But I'm processing how much it really shaped, a lot of the, I don't know if it was the decisions I was making, 'cause I feel like I wasn't making as many decisions.

Like, I was just staying there.

Becky: I think it shaped the way you were experiencing the tasks you were doing for your business on a daily basis.

Laurie: Yeah, true.

Becky: And that normally spark joy and life in you were so draining and exhausting, and you had to yourself to power through more. There's just so much of that that's not your norm.

Laurie: Yeah. And I hate it when people talk cryptically, 'cause I didn't even say it yet here. Like, I feel like we talk about it all the time personally, but I got divorced. So if you're listening and you're like, "What happened? Why was she in survival mode?" I got divorced. And, it wasn't expected. It wasn't, like, I was fighting for the opposite for so long, and so that, it threw me. It completely threw me in a lot of ways.

Becky: And [00:06:00] it threw a thousand different parts of your life, as well with it.

Laurie: Yes. Yes.

Becky: There was very good reason that you were in survival mode.

Laurie: Yeah. Yeah.

Becky: And why it impacted your business so heavily.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: I actually want you to rewind just a little bit. Take us back to when and why you started Small Church Ministry, and over the years, how that motivation kind of shifted until now.

Laurie: Okay, that's such a fun question. Like did you see me start smiling? I was like, "Oh yeah, I can think about how that started." Like Small Church Ministry, which is my main business, at least right now it's my main business. It started back in, my kids were getting older. They were still in school, they were still at home, but I was a little bored, and I was frustrated, and I needed a creative outlet.

I also was working full time. I was also a pastor's wife, so it wasn't like I was bored, not busy, but I was bored on the creative sense of thing. Like, I just wanted an outlet. I wanted something fun. And Small Church Ministry started because I really thought [00:07:00] small churches could help each other. I had moved from a large church to a small church, and I kept thinking, like, we're all reinventing the wheel, 'cause the reality is, there aren't a lot of resources out there for smaller churches.

And so we tend to look at the big churches, and we adapt everything, or we write our own, or we're making our own plays, for Children's ministry, or we're writing our own scripts for this or that, or we're designing our own way to structure Women's ministry. And so we kept like, everybody's reinventing the wheel, and I'm like, gosh, if we shared all this stuff, like how much stronger all the small churches would be.

Because I had gotten that Journey to the Cross idea from another small church, and we imported into my church, and I made it different and fit our church better. And we had this huge, creative, amazing thing at a church of like less than 100 people. And I wanted to share that. And so we were just sharing things back and forth and started a blog and it was just kind of a simple thought, right?

Like, why don't we just share what's working? Your church figured something out, let's do it, or, you know, collaborative. And it was really fun. And so I started a blog. [00:08:00] I was excited to be writing. I really wanted to do something. You probably remember, Becky, I wanted to just like hole up and just write.

I just wanted to write, to not, I was around enough people. I didn't wanna be around more people. I just wanted to write, which is kind of ironic in how it all spilled out. But that's how it started, and then it grew really fast. I had a community really fast. I had a membership really fast. I hired team members really fast. And we had a lot of different pieces and parts between a blog, and a podcast, and online events, and a membership. Like, you know, anything that most online businesses would be doing, we were doing all of it. We were producing PDFs and things like that. And then, you know, through the last couple years is when I kinda hit that, you know, my personal life was crashing. Some other stuff changed, but that's when I kinda ended up in. So I haven't been in survival mode the whole time. I guess that's part of the context is, but I slipped in there, right? 

Becky: Definitely yeah. Well, you did, and a lot happened, in your life along the way too, because what started as a creative outlet for [00:09:00] you, when you were working full-time and had full, like, all this ministry going on and stuff, all those things kind of started shifting. So you...

Laurie: I didn't even say it. 

Becky: So move to that part of your story.

Laurie: I lost my job in COVID, but it wasn't COVID related, so I got no unemployment. Yeah, you're right. This is when it went from hobby to business. I skipped that whole piece. Lost my job, had to replace a full-time income, a big part of our family income, and that's when we started building. And,

Becky: But that's not when you went in survival mode, either.

Laurie: Not at all.

Becky: That was fun and you were.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: Learning hard during that season.

Laurie: Yeah, I was excited. I'm like, "Oh, I can make money with this?" And I had a lot of purpose and, it was, yeah, it was a very different thing. It was exciting, and new, and fun, and fulfilling. And, and I wasn't reliant on the money. Like, we still had another family income, right? So it wasn't just my income. So even though I was replacing an income, it wasn't completely necessary to hit a [00:10:00] certain budget number. Does that make sense?

Becky: Absolutely.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: So, we talked about how, you know, you were in major growth mode, but not survival mode. You were still fun and motivated and invigorated, and

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: And like growing your impact, growing your business, growing your team.

Laurie: Totally.

Becky: There's so much growth explosion during that time. So then let's, zero in on the more recent season of post-divorce when things did shift more to survival mode.

Where along the way would you say survival, yeah, started, survival mode came into the picture?

Laurie: Well, you said post-divorce. It wasn't post-divorce, it was pre-divorce. It was leading up to it. It was in the time when you just know that, that there's nothing you can do to fix this marriage. Like, And I do wanna say for anyone listening who's been through a divorce, and I wanna say especially if you're a Christian, 'cause I think it carries a different layer of shame or cloudedness or expectations even.

I don't think the church does a good job, like supporting and showing up. And, I also didn't realize [00:11:00] how devastating it was. Like, I thought divorce, I thought people were angry at each other when they got divorced. Do you know what I mean? Like, I thought it was anger based. I had no idea the devastation, the fear, the incredible sadness and grief, cause that's what it was for me, you know. 

Becky: Yes .

Laurie: This is not what I wanted. And so it was leading up and through the process of getting divorced. I think for me, it was a little easier in some sense 'cause I didn't have littles at home, so there was a little less processing on that. But man, to go from two incomes to one, and to be solely responsible, not just for myself, but also for my team, like we talk, like the people who are running this business with me.

Like, that's when it became survival because it was like, "Oh my gosh, I have to hit this." Like, I have to be able to pay my own rent, like my own health insurance and Marketplace. Well, that's a whole nother thing. Like, everything, like, was just all new, right? And at the same time, I honestly think the online landscape was [00:12:00] changing, at the same time.

I don't get into blaming everybody around you. Like, oh, it's that person's fault, or it's the culture's fault, or it's that. But it is an impact, right? Like, for years my conferences had been a huge part of my revenue, and they still are but, it changed a lot. And Facebook advertising worked really well for me for a while, and it might again.

Like, it might again. Like, we're tweaking things. But it stopped working the same way. And so when things on the outside were changing and, like, all the inside internal stuff just felt a lot of upheaval, if that's a good word. It's not that I suddenly forgot how to run my business, but everything was changing and it was different, and I was in a different season.

Becky: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: So yeah.

Becky: Yeah. No, I completely agree with you that. Yeah, no, I just agree you were, in a different season there, and you were experiencing differently, and you did not, I mean, as your friend on the outside, you did not stop showing up for your business or [00:13:00] running your business. 

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: Very engaged and present and working hard every step of all of these crazy personal transitions.

Laurie: Yeah. And 

Becky: Yeah 

Laurie: You know, as we're talking about survival mode, like in my head I'm like survival mode. Like a lot of us hit survival mode. We really wanted to make sure to talk about that, 'cause it's been such a prevalent season for me. I don't know that the biggest impact really was surrounding my revenue.

Becky: Hmm.

Laurie: Like, I think the biggest impact of survival mode may have been surrounding my thinking. Like, I'm trying to think what I'm even saying there, but like, how I'm thinking about trying to make payroll or feeling solely responsible, like it's all on me or, you know, the whole thought of what it takes to rebuild your life.

And even that thought of rebuilding your life, it's like well I'm not really starting over. Like, I already have a business and, kids who love me and, [00:14:00] friends and, you know what I mean? You know, I think sometimes we think about starting over and everything, right? And so I don't know, I think my brain started shifting and, started asking different questions.

Like instead of where do I wanna be in five years or one year, like I mentioned earlier, I'm such a long-term thinker, I really was focusing on how do I get through this month.

Becky: Yeah.

Laurie: I kinda had to, so talk to me back about that because like part of me is like, "But I had to." And part of me's like, "But I lost this piece of me that I just loved so much."

Becky: Yeah, and I think you did have to. You did need to pull back because you couldn't do anything on autopilot in that season because nothing was on autopilot.

Laurie: No.

Becky: The place you're living, things, your coffee cup in the morning, your sleep, everything.

Laurie: My furniture. Everything was gone.

Becky: Your rhythms,

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: Where you went, where you didn't go. Everything changed, all at once.

Laurie: Yeah. I wanna actually throw this in there because this is far enough back that I feel like I can talk about it, but the visual went through my head of when I moved into a rental house that I was so glad to get 'cause I didn't even know if I could [00:15:00] get it. A small, little rental house with my anxious dog, and I was sitting on the living room floor on a carpet scrap next to my piano because I had no other furniture. Like.

Becky: I remember.

Laurie: Remember that? Like, and I remember having business calls and people saying, "Oh, where do you office out of?" Like, you know, people who fi- You know, I'm like, "I'm sitting on a scrap of carpet on a tile floor because I have no furniture, and I just got divorced." And it's not like you're saying those things, right?

Becky: Yeah.

Laurie: It so interesting to think we never know what other people are going through. And I also, I didn't hide it. I was very authentic. I was not, like, you know, trying to be somebody I wasn't or show up online happy, shiny, you know, whatever, on Facebook with, you know, glossed over, you know, posts or, you know, descriptions. But I was quieter.

Becky: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

Becky: Which, all of which are, are different for you. The, losing that visionary part of you, forward-thinking, big picture thinking.

Laurie: [00:16:00] Yeah. Creativity.

Becky: Creativity. That, it really dimmed for you during that season, really dimmed, and that's so abnormal for you.

Laurie: Yeah. If you're in fight or flight though, you can't think creatively.

Becky: Yeah

Laurie: Like, that's actually a psychological principle. Like, you can't think creatively, and you're not thinking long-term vision. Like, it's crazy.

Becky: So I want you to talk just a little bit because I think this is a common, maybe not this exact phrase, but the thought, the concept of shaming ourselves, shame spiraling. I want you to talk about the thought, what is wrong with me? You throw that out there to me all the time, especially in the survival mode season.

There must be something wrong with me. What is wrong with me?

Laurie: I'm not sure how you want me to talk about it because it's a terrible thought that goes through my head oftentimes and I try to kick it out.

Becky: I think that is an, your specific example of the start of your shame spiral, right? Of, like you're trying to show up to do something for your business. Write an email, publish a post.

Laurie: Yeah. Yeah.

Becky: And you just can't bring yourself to do it. [00:17:00] It feels like you're knocking against a wall, and you ask, "What is wrong with me?"

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: Talk a little bit about what happens there and, yeah, how you respond.

Laurie: Okay, it's a terrible question. I'm just gonna say right now, if you ask what is wrong with me, we should never ask that question. And I know why I shouldn't ask that question, because our brain, God built our brain to answer our questions and to keep us safe. And so if we say, "What is wrong with me?" my brain can come up with a million things that are wrong with me.

Becky: Of course.

Laurie: Like, we should not ask this question of ourselves, and I still... Like, it's one of my, it's one of the things that challenges me that I have to like, you talk about thought boundaries, right? Like, it's a terrible question to ask, what is wrong with me, and I think the reality is, that if we can say, "Okay, your brain is doing its job. It's trying to keep you safe." When you procrastinate, when you can't think, it's conserving your resources. Like, there's so many things that happen in our brain, and this is why I think we need to understand how God created us. Like, [00:18:00] I think this is such a Christian conversation that should be happening.

Some Christians put this in the secular world, and they say, "Oh, that's a secular thing." No. God created us, who we are, our brain, our body, our mindsets, the way that we are neurobiologically, physiologically, spiritually all connected. Like, we've gotta look at that. And so I'm pretty quick at catching myself going into a shame spiral.

Like, I feel it when it's happening, but it's not always easy to pop ourselves out of it, right?

Becky: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. But it's been a very present, we talk about things bubbling up to the surface sometimes. That, the shame spiral of like, "I'm going through this hard thing, but why can't I just function like normal in my business. 

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: That shame spiral bubbles up pretty regularly, and so I think it's a good thing to be aware of survival seasons.

Laurie: Yeah. Yeah.

And looking back, like in hindsight, I have so much more compassion for myself than I did when I was in it. Like, everything I did, like, it made sense the way I was [00:19:00] thinking, the grieving, the, you know, everything. And I look back, I'm like, I, can't believe how much I showed up in the middle of it. Like, So when I was in the middle of it, I'm like, "What is wrong with me? I'm, I can't, you know, I can't, I'm not, This isn't working. I'm failing." And looking back, I'm like, wow, like, I was kind of like a rock star compared to what I was going through. You know what I mean? Like,

Becky: So true.

Laurie: Hindsight is so different, isn't it?

Becky: It is.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: It is, yeah. I would say that for the most part in general, our culture kind of talks about survival mode as purely something bad. And it is, it's uncomfortable, it's hard, it's... You're usually going through some form of suffering or trauma or something.

Laurie: Yes.

Becky: The goal, that we hear in our culture is just get out of survival mode as fast as possible.

Laurie: Mm-hmm.

Becky: That is commonly talked about. But.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: Were there aspects of survival mode that actually helped you in your business along the way?

Laurie: Okay, I think what you just asked is so [00:20:00] genius, the fact that you just mentioned, like, we tell ourselves to get out of survival mode as fast as possible. And, survival mode is a gift. Like, it's not just what I think. It's not an opinion. Like, God gave it to us. It's almost like a breaker switch.

You know when your house is about to explode with the electricity, and your breaker goes off? And we get mad when our breaker goes off, and we're like, "I gotta fix my breaker." Well, there's a reason it went off. It's 'cause it was almost on overload, right? And so I think survival mode is kind of like that. I think it truly is complete gift.

God designed us to survive difficult seasons. Like, it's what allows us to keep functioning when life is terribly overwhelming and really is, you can't conquer it. You know? Like, it keeps us functioning. I have a lot of respect for survival mode when I see it in myself and others, and I think the key is that we can't stay there. It's meant to be a season. It's not an end-all. It's a season. But survival mode is the only reason I kept [00:21:00] showing up. It's the only reason I kept leading. It's the only reason I kept paying the bills, was that fear of I have to do it. It's the only reason I kept serving people in that time when I didn't even think I could. I think survival mode also grows us. Like,

Becky: Mm-hmm.

Laurie: I think it increased my capacity. And I think, I don't wanna downplay this saying it almost last in my list if I'm done with my list, but it gives me, it gave me a different type of empathy for other business owners, right? My business grew relatively, I'm gonna say easy, but I worked my tail off, and I worked a lot of hours, and I, like, look at the community I built, and when people wanna come in and start promoting their stuff, I'm like, "Do you know how much money and time and energy I spent building this community and keeping it safe and all the..."

You know? So I worked my tail off, but up until that season, I never had worried about payroll. And I honestly had too many people on my staff at one point. I was paying more than I [00:22:00] should. I land generous. And so until really last year, you know, or the last, I don't know, year and a half ago maybe, whenever I started hitting this, "Oh my gosh, I don't know if I can make payroll," and I was more worried about my team members than me.

Becky: You were.

Laurie: It's a lot of responsibility when you have team members. Like, it just is. It's, So now when people mention struggling in their business, I have a whole different understanding than I did before. Like, I never knew. I never... You know, I think until we go through it, we can have compassion and some empathy, but when you've been through it, you're like, "Wow."

And so, I almost wanna say I wouldn't erase that season, but I don't wanna live that ever again. Like, I.

Becky: No.

Laurie: I don't wanna erase it because of there's some real beautiful things that came out of it. But yeah, I guess I'm not grateful for the season, but I am grateful for what it produced in me and,

Becky: Yeah.

Laurie: Maybe noticing things differently.

Becky: Yeah, there was definitely, and again, we're not saying that we wish survival mode on anybody.

Laurie: [00:23:00] Yeah.

Becky: But there is, I saw, I watched your capacity grow. I watched you function beyond your capacity day after day, and you would have these bursts of energy when it made no sense, when you hadn't slept, and you'd been grieving and crying and, like, processing hard things.

And, but I'm actually gonna throw out something that we've also said to each other as an encouragement to each other so many times over the years, 'cause I also had my own survival season.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: I went through six and a half years of pretty debilitating insomnia. Not all of that was survival mode, but a good chunk of that was survival mode. And one of the things that we said to each other during this time was, "You can do a whole lot tired." 'Cause

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: The first thing out of our mouths most days is, "How are you waking up?" "Tired."

Laurie: Yeah. Yeah.

Becky: And that didn't stop us. And so when you're talking about your capacity, I just remember us reminding each other day after day that you really can do more than you think you can, even when you're exhausted. And that's not some weird Christian-y power through,

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: Do it on your own strength kind of thing either

Laurie: [00:24:00] No, it's not. And I think it gets unhealthy when we think it's supposed to be like this forever or that this is what is the norm. Because I don't think any, I don't think either one of us would say you're supposed to stay in that. Like, we believe in emotional health. We believe in taking care of ourselves, like all that kind of stuff, so.

Becky: Yeah, I completely agree. So, let's talk about what some of, we've been talking about a lot of them anyways, but what some of the costs were of survival mode. How did survival mode impact the way you showed up in your business?

Laurie: Yeah. You know, when we talked about creativity and dreaming and stuff, I think the crux is that instead of dreaming, I was managing things. Instead of creating new things, I was maintaining things, and I was working very hard to maintain things, where maintaining used to be autopilot and creating was the fun thing. You know, like, it, it's that and I think that's actually what survival mode is actually supposed to do. I lost some margin during that time. Like, I've always had margin. I love margin. I have [00:25:00] margin now in my life. Like, those buffer times, that extra time, not just physically or on our calendar, but even emotionally, and I think that's kind of the thing, like when I talked about, like, the walls felt like they were closing in. We lose our margin, that extra space, right?

Becky: Yeah. Well, and I would say that from the outside, during survival mode, your energy became a lot more unpredictable. So I just talked about.

Laurie: That's a sweet way, that's a really nice way to say that, Becky.

Becky: So I feel like it was important because I just talked about how it gave you bursts of energy, but the thing is it had costs too. So you would.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: Like, like how on earth is she even doing this? You'd get a tremendous amount done, and then you would crash.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: So frustrated at the crash because there was still more to do, and it kind of became that cycle of unpredictability. When am I gonna crash? How much can I get done when I get that, burst of energy kind of thing.

Laurie: Yeah, yeah. And honestly, it, that's painfully accurate, and I'm still working my way out of [00:26:00] that, to be honest. Like, it, but it used to be like I mean, I could crash for like a week or a whole weekend, and I, it was like I could barely function. You know that when you're literally barely functioning. And, um, now it's, it's not, it's not as long things, but I still, if I have a couple really hard work days, I have a day where I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I can't function right now." You know, again, and it's a little bit reminiscent, right, of the really hard periods. And so I think a lot of entrepreneurs probably recognize this cycle, right? You push, you recover, you push, you recover. And the problem is sometimes we start believing that the pushing, right, is what builds your business, and it's not true.

Like, it is not true. The business I built is not because I was exhausted or overworking. Like, the best parts of my business came out of creativity and relationships and collaboration and, like, that's where it happened, that consistently showing up. It's very different. I just, I don't believe that working harder and working more hours is equivalent with our [00:27:00] success.

I think you and I have seen that. I think it's important. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Becky: And we're not promoting that.

Laurie: No, we are not promoting that. Not at all. Yeah.

Becky: So we've talked about survival mode driving your decisions, but talk to us about what you are processing right now. Does it feel like you're finding a different or a new why in running your business?

Laurie: No, it doesn't at all. I, I think my original why stands. I love to help people. I love to help people build meaningful things. I like to create resources that make people's lives easier in, you know, in the church realm. Save time and money is what I always say. Save time, save money, you know? I'm always about developing people, developing our skills, our people skills. Like, those things haven't changed at all. The pressure has changed. All the pressure I had while I was doing all these things, which frees things up in so many different directions, right?

When your purpose gets to come back to the surface again. And I guess I wanna say I don't think the purpose ever disappeared.

It just was a lot harder to hear. Like, it was [00:28:00] just, it was, like, shoved down under a blanket of you just gotta get, you gotta get through this, you gotta survive this, you know? So.

Becky: I would completely agree with that. That's a great description.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: So the title of this episode is From Survival Mode to Long-Term Vision. So what does that actually look like for you?

Laurie: Well, I'm getting to ask different questions now. Like, instead of talking about how to get through the month, which sometimes I still have a little bit of that, right? I'm going back to what do I wanna see in five years, and more specifically for me at 56 years old now, or I'm saying level 56. So Scott and I are starting to say level 56.

Sounds much more like we're achieving things in a game, right? So at level 56 now, I think I'm asking really the question of, like, what kind of business fits the life I wanna live now? Like, survival mode took me off the regular autopilot into a different place, right? And now I don't wanna go back to where I was even before survival mode.

I want my life to look a little differently, and so those are kind of the questions I'm asking now. Like, like, what do I wanna do? You know, what do I wanna spend my time [00:29:00] doing, within my business and my vision and stuff? And it's just a lot more fun to ask those questions, right?

Becky: Yeah. Well, and you have mentioned a lot recently about living the quiet life, the quiet life sounding pretty appealing, and I want you to talk a little bit more about that too.

Laurie: Ah. Are you okay that we're going over, Becky? 'Cause we're at 30 minutes. Okay, cool. Okay, 'cause I, we, I know we try to keep our episodes a little shorter. You know, I, I still ... Like, the quiet life sounds pretty good for me. I think for me, and you know, we talk about quitting our businesses now and then.

Becky and I give ourselves permission to quit our businesses, and sometimes I think, "Oh, it'd be so sweet just to wake up in the morning, have coffee, and just sit on the back porch, and not have any pressure, and write books when I feel like it. And if anybody wants to pick them up, they can, and if they don't, they don't."

Like, no pressure. But I still always have an idea of something I wanna be creating, right? Like, and the reality is I sometimes I think I want this little quiet life, but I [00:30:00] don't. Like, I still wanna create, and I, I love teaching. I love developing, people. I love letting them come see the best they can be and moving toward that.

I love podcasting. I even like the silly backend stuff of fixing website mistakes or, you know, building out the courses on the backend in the platform. You know, like, I love those kind of things. I love showing up for random Zoom calls with people. Like, so I don't want, like, less purpose when I think about that quiet life, but I have to be it is a little, it is a little appealing.

Becky: Oh, totally. And okay, I already know the answer to this question, but would you say that your craving this quiet life, would you say that you becoming less ambitious?

Laurie: Okay, she only knows the answer to this question 'cause we had this discussion, the two of us did last week. And, because we questioned this. Like, is, am I becoming less ambitious? Do I want less? And I don't think I want anything less. I but I do want different things now. Like, I do want more margin. I do want [00:31:00] more space.

And I, so I think I'm ambitious. I think I'm more ambitious to create the life I want instead of being so ambitious over all the things that I wanna produce.

Becky: Hmm. Absolutely. It's just redirected ambition.

Laurie: Exactly.

Becky: I love that. So tell us, what does a healthy next season, post-survival mode season look like for you?

Laurie: Okay, so I think post-survival mode is not where I'm gonna land in the end. So I think I'm going into a season that's a little slower right now, at least I'm working to get it a little slower. I have talked publicly about needing more rest or some sort of little sabbatical. I've been in therapy the whole time, but I think I'm cranking that up a little bit, and gonna go back to meeting with my therapist every other week.

There's just some deeper things I'm working on now because I'm able to, 'cause I have space to, so other things are bubbling up. Reducing my work hours a little bit, you know? So that's probably where I am, and I know you and I talk a lot about the pendulum shift. You know, like, like we're over here for a while, and then we go over there, and then [00:32:00] slowly it kind of comes back to the balance and a little less with these, you know, big peaks and stuff.

So I think I don't think I'm gonna land here forever, but I do think the next season, I hope I hit that, that next season. Like, I'm trying to, get my business to a place where I can create this next season with a little less, you know, whether it's three months or six months or a year. Yeah. And it's not because I want less.

I already kind of mentioned that. I wanna lead well for decades. Like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna be the person who retires and has no purpose, you know, , in life, because that happens to a lot of people. Like, you know, Scott and I are talking about what we want to be doing in our 60s and our 70s and our 80s and our 90s and it's not just sitting around watching the clouds go by, 

Becky: Oh, for sure not. Yeah,.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: Okay, so I kinda wanna jump back to something that you mentioned earlier, how we give ourselves permission to quit. So you and I often do that, and it's not because,

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: We necessarily want to quit or because we're encouraging each other to quit. It just is, [00:33:00] we say that as a reminder to each other that we're not trapped.

Laurie: Yes.

Becky: We've had these conversations about Small Church Ministry, we've had the conversations about Smart Soulful Business, and about So Very Blessed. So when we bring that up, the, like giving ourselves permission to quit these things, what does that do for you?

Laurie: Oh, it's incredibly freeing to know that you can quit. You know, Kat and I used to do this when we worked for a college. So I had a, I had a coworker, Kat, and she actually called me this morning, and, we're still friends, you know, a decade or so later. We worked a pretty hard job for a college, and we would do all this traveling and all kinds of stuff, and when we would get in kind of a mode, we'd be like, "You know, you can quit."

And we would start looking for other jobs, and every time we did, we're like, "Oh, no, we like it where we are." You know, it's like looking at grass is greener on the other side, right? Oh my gosh, we could just quit. Like, let's quit. Let's find something else. And we'd look for something else and go, "Oh, we really do choose this."

And I think that's the thing is if, if you know you can quit, if you stay, you're choosing it, right? 

Becky: Yeah.

Laurie: Yeah, I just think there's beauty in not feeling [00:34:00] stuck.

Becky: Yeah. I was watching Boarders last night. Their therapists say the same thing. Like, "He has to choose to get rid of that. Or he's gonna feel bitter and resentful and all of it, you know it's your choice."

Laurie: Yeah, so wherever you're listening from, whatever you're doing, if you have a day job, if you have a part-time job, if you're, you know, parenting, we can't really quit parenting. You could, but the consequences would be pretty rough. You know, or if you have your own business, I think giving ourselves permission to quit, I think it's a beautiful thing. I think it's really, really beautiful.

Becky: I agree.

Laurie: Yeah.

Becky: We are about to land the plane. We are at 36 minutes, things together now. Where do you, what do you wanna leave everybody with today?

Laurie: You know, I think I wanna just simply say this. Like, don't assume something is wrong with you if your business feels different than it did five years ago. So between last week's episode, if you haven't heard last week's, episode 39, when I interviewed Becky, and this week's episode, you've heard a few different seasons, right?

And we're definitely not sharing all our seasons with you. Like, we're just kinda highlighting a couple seasons. But if your business feels different than it did five years [00:35:00] ago, maybe you've changed, and I would say you have changed. We all change. Like, we all are changing all the time, whether we like it or not.

Maybe your life has changed. Maybe your responsibilities have changed. Maybe you've been through loss. Maybe you've had some awesome success. Maybe you've simply grown in different ways personally. Business seasons, businesses have seasons 'cause people have seasons. Like, I think we need to not just allow it, but embrace it and not fight it, right?

Because I think one of the healthiest things we can do as entrepreneurs is recognize the season we're in. You know, my friend Cledra Gross, life coach, just amazing woman, she talks about this a lot. Like, name it. Name it and normalize it. And there's a couple other steps with that. But, like, if we can name it and normalize it, that's a great place to start.

Like, just naming it. I'm in a different season. I've changed. This has changed. This thing outside me has changed. This person I'm supporting has changed. Something has changed. And if you're in survival mode like I was, I think, I hope I didn't share too much. But, give yourself some grace, you know?

A- survival mode is a gift, [00:36:00] and we're in it for a season. We don't wanna stay in it forever. That's not a great place to be. I don't think we could stay in it forever. I think we would burn out, literally, like burn out and die physically if we had to stay there forever. But you know, you're making the best decisions you can with the information and the resources we have today.

That, that's how we all live. Like, we're doing the best we can with what we have. And if you're beginning to come out of survival mode, like you're like, "Oh, I was there. I don't wanna be there anymore. I'm coming out." Like, don't lead like you're still there. Like, let yourself ask different questions.

Start dreaming again, thinking long-term again. Survival mode is why we are all here. Like, at some point in your life, you were in survival mode. Could've been junior high bullying, could've been your childhood. Survival mode is a gift, right? It's why we're here, so let's not like, you know, hate it or wish it never happened.

But let's get that vision to where we wanna go next, so.

Becky: And we do wanna en- leave you with encouraging you to ask a different question. So instead of asking, "What's wrong with me that I can't do all that I wanna do and don't have the [00:37:00] capacity I had five years ago in a different season?" And all of those questions, instead, we wanna encourage you to ask, "What season am I in?

What questions am I asking? Am I building from pressure or from purpose?" And we would love to hear your thoughts about it. So come find us on Facebook or on Instagram and tell us what season you're in right now. And if these conversations have encouraged you, we would be so grateful if you would leave us a review.

It just helps more entrepreneurs discover the podcast, and it helps us continue creating conversations just like these. Thanks so much for spending this time with us today. We'll see you next week.