Q & A on the Gospel of St. John with Bro. John "Ernie" Perez

Join us "around the table" as we discuss The Gospel of St. John.  This is powerful!!!  “Let there be light” shows up long before Christmas and it’s bigger than the sun, the moon, or the stars. Around the table, we connect Genesis 1 to Jesus’ words in John, “I am the light of the world,” and we talk about what light actually does: it confronts darkness, separates what’s true, and brings order where there’s chaos. If you’ve ever felt like your life was “without form and void,” this conversation is for you.

We also get honest about something Christians argue about nonstop: theological boxes. We’re not here to score points for a label. We’re here to ask what Jesus said about Himself, why the “many paths” idea clashes with His own claims, and why Matthew 16 still cuts through the noise when Jesus asks, “Who do you say that I am?” We talk revelation versus intellect, idols versus a living Christ, and why the risen King can’t be reduced to a symbol on a chain.

Then the episode turns personal. You’ll hear raw testimony about growing up around religion but needing a real God, deliverance from addiction, Scripture coming alive through revelation, intercessory prayer that doesn’t quit, and the long road from fear of God to finally trusting His love. Wherever you’re listening from, you’re not too far gone, and your story isn’t over.

If this helped you, subscribe for more Bible-centered conversation, share it with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review so more people can find Simple Discipleship Unfiltered.

Ways to Give at https://m3mi.org...Thank you for your seed!  :)

Transcript

Welcome And Table Questions

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Hey y'all, welcome to Simple Assembly Ship Unfiltered. I'm your host, Sister Diana. Thank you so much for joining me on this journey today. It's not always easy. But you are not a love. So grab me a drink. Grab me a snack. Let's open the word and see what Jesus has to say today. Hey, welcome to Simple to Simpleship Unfiltered. I'm your host, Sister Diana, and we are around the table today. We just are limited to the number of folks are here because we just finished up doing one of our uh chapters on the book of John. If you did not hear that, go and listen to it. Highly recommend. Brother Ernie's joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Yes. Good morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Sister Patty. Good morning. Sister Audia. Good morning. And we want to say thank you to Sister Audia, letting us use our home. We're about to have our podcast room ready in there. We're excited about that. That's going to open up so many things. But you know, we wanted to take this moment to have some just QA questions and answers on just whatever topic that we can come up with. But we we were talking about John, we're talking about how you alluded to Jesus being the light that's that's mentioned in Genesis. Can

Jesus As Light In Creation

SPEAKER_01 1:35

you just kind of go over that real quick again? Because that's powerful right there. To just when you when you put those two together, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Well, Jesus did say, I'm the light of the world, didn't he? Okay. Well, he's not the sun, the moon, or the stars. When when God spoke into creation, the first thing that he spoke was light. He said, Let there be light. And there was light. Not sun, not moon, not stars, not electricity. Light. God is light. And what the light did immediately was obliterate the darkness. It separated the darkness, marked out the darkness. And Jesus came to bring us out of darkness into his marvelous light, right? He is the light of the world. He says, I am the light of the world. And so when God said, Let there be light, the complete concept of Jesus Christ is in that light. Because light comes to conquer the darkness. Jesus came to conquer the darkness of sin.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

So can we talk about what what do you think caused it to be dark?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Chaos. Remember, in eternity, as far as we know, all we have is a glimpse of eternity or infinity in our minds. It's hard to concept that never end that which is never ending. It's hard to wrap your head around that. But when you when you look up at the stars, can you see the end?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

No.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

No. No, because it just goes. And if we took all the stars out of there, no sun, no stars, there would only be what? Maybe what scientists call the closest thing, a black hole. But when the light came, that just rearranges everything. You just think about if you could be in a theater with absolutely no light. Have you ever been to Carlsbad Caverns? I have not. I have. I've been in some caves though. Okay, so you know how dark it gets in a cave when there's nothing. Yeah. You could be in a cave that's six miles long, eight miles wide. It's spooky. And and not see anything. But if it's all flat within that area, and one tiny birthday candle is litting. It's lit. You know how far you can see that from?

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Jesus is the light. It didn't look like much to earthly historians. One small man, they thought. But he was the light in the midst of darkness. And he's still burning bright today.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Everybody can see him. Past, present, and future, he is the light.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Now we may we may not agree on this thing, but I do want to get your idea on it. Is

Chaos Before God Brings Order

SPEAKER_01 5:05

I've always had in my mind tried to understand why when it comes to the earth that the Bible says that the earth was void and without form. Because God create created everything with excellence.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Right? So that that's a good that that's a great question. In my mind, not saying that I had the answer of all answers, somebody else may send you in a far better answer than what I'll give you, okay? But I think it's part of the Hebrew style of writing to make you understand. Everything was chaos until God spoke to it. When God spoke to it, order came to it. So the earth was without form and void. There was whatever there without form and void. And darkness was upon the face of the deep. So there was no real purpose and earth in what existed. God being the creative entity that he is.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

You know what I'm saying? There's just so much between verse one and two.

God Won’t Fit Our Boxes

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Sometimes we have to agree that God will not fit in our little theological box.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

We want it to.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yeah, but you know, when when to lead someone to Christ is not to say, I'm going to make you a modalist. I'm going to make you a Trinitarian. I'm going to make you a dualist. None of those things. God is so far beyond. And I don't want to make fun of those people. I believe they love God. They're searching for God, just like me. But God is so far beyond any little theological box that we can create. It's like the the story of the two mosquitoes who discovered the elephant, and then they were fighting over who gets to eat there.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

You know?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, we all agree he's the only God. So when they say, are you monotheistic? I don't care what camp you put yourself in theologically. We are all agreeing the only God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Yeah. So what makes you think that we will put him in in some little container and say, I will share this container with you, and outside of it you cannot find Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

But then but then the people, the proponents on the other side of that, who thinks that there that there are other ways to God other than through Jesus, say the same thing in that because we want to put God in a box, we say that only Jesus can be the way, the truth, and the life.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

The difference is we're not putting Jesus there. He puts himself there. Yeah. He says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

And so that's that's always the argument, though, is that when people say, because, you know, they they come out one of the, I think Steve Harvey the other the other day said something about how, you know, he is a Christian and he believes in God and he believes in Jesus and all that, but he sees God as being bigger than just one God, but being able to have multiple gods that get to Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

I caught a clip of him talking that way. And, you know, he's known for his benevolence also. But if Jesus says, I am the way, the truth, and the life, he doesn't say, they are the ways. Yeah. There are multiple ways. Jesus himself said, Broad is the way and many are the paths that lead to destruction, but straight is the way and narrow is the gate that leads to eternal life.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

But you know, a lot of spell especially celebrities, we see, you know, Oprah's like that. She has that philosophy where that she believes that everyone serves the same God, whether they serve them as a Hindi God or whether it's, you know, a Buddhist or whatever, that they're actually still praying to the same God that leads to the same path. And so that's where that we want to say that as a Christian, we can't believe that. I had the conversation with my brother multiple times, and because my brother is, but there's so many people that don't know what you believe. And I said, that's our job, is to go. You know, he's like, well, I said, but if we don't, if we don't separate the separation has to be, if I'm a Christian, that I'm gonna go into the word and say, What did Jesus say about himself? And you just alluded to it, you're gonna turn there.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

No, but you tripped my mind. And and in my mind, I cannot afford to trip over too many times. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Go ahead. So the conversation has to be if Jesus has said that he is the way, the truth, the life, no man comes to the Father except by him, then that's our that's what we have to base our faith on. If we start saying that there's multiple ways to get to him, to God, and not have to just bring Jesus into the equation, then we're not Christians. We can't say we are if we if we're not following that truth.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

I think what I'm about to say, if I'm remembering correctly, this came from Rabbi Jason Sobel's teaching uh in the book that

Who Do You Say Jesus Is

SPEAKER_00 11:05

what's her name? Is it Kathy Lee Gifford? The Rock, the Rogue, the Rabbi. Yeah, I read that. I read that. Okay. One of the things he he says in the in the teaching portion when he is following up, is that in Matthew 16, the place that they were at is near the Decapolis. And so there was a lot of Gentile influence, a lot of pagan influence, and a lot of idols there. And that's where he was when he looked at the disciples and asked them, Who do men say that I am?

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yeah. There's all these available choices. You think I'm like them?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

So the the implication is that Jesus picked that spot so that he wouldn't have to verbalize certain things, so that the disciples would have to look at them and have to look at his comment in relationship to here's all these idols. Who do you say I am? We know who people believe all these idols are.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

You know, and say that you're the Christ, the Son of the Living God. And he says something to Simon Peter. The first time I read it, my first time through the Gospel of Matthew, it hit me like a brick. And it's always hit me the same way since then. In verse 16 of Matthew 16, and Simon Peter answered. He answered the question, whom do people say that I am? Then he said, But whom do you say that I am? Now it's not enough for the people. What do you, who do you say I am?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the anointed one, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered him and said, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjonah, for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven, he's telling Simon Peter, You've had a personal revelation from eternity himself. This should make us understand. Simon Peter, the man who did denied the Christ three times. Yet God forgave him, empowered him in all of his imperfection. He was a man who had trouble with bigotry. Yet God helped him rise above these things. We ought to understand that following Jesus successfully is more than about my intellect. That's not enough. I need him to lift me up. I need to lean into his strength. I need to depend on his mercy, depend on his grace, and he will then give me revelation. I don't know how many of the other ones he didn't look at them and say, You've had this revelation. Doesn't mean they wouldn't. But at that point, and and it is so foolish. Looking at this, it is so foolish for us to not believe that God can reveal himself. See, a lot of people don't see the mighty God in Christ, even though the scripture says God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself. In the face of Jesus Christ, we see the glory of God, right? All the fullness of the Godhead dwelleth bodily in Christ Jesus. This is said so many times. Jesus says over and over again, I am in the Father, the Father is in me. Folks can't see it, and so they debate over dualism, Trinitarianism, modalism, and all these other isms, Arianisms, and they have huge theological ideas. Not saying they aren't serious or they're not prayerful, but what they're not seeing is that there is a God who reveals Himself, not by your ability to comprehend Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic. Yeah. But your ability to listen to Him.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah. You didn't learn this in the synagogue school. It was revealed to you.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

But isn't the revelation what God teaches us through revelation what separates Jesus from the statues?

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

From just the idol worship. Yes. I mean, think of they're in they're in that place where all of these different idols are set up, and people are actually there sacrificing their children. You know, we know that that you know that there were several of them that that's what they did as far as with their worship was to give up their children in order to attain, you know, favor from the gods. Or to make life better for themselves. Yeah. And so, and so, in if you're seeing that setting when Jesus says those words, are we gonna see Jesus just as a statue or even just as a cross on our neck? Come on now.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

He's not the crucified savior. That's right. He's the risen king.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

He's the risen one.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

He was the crucified savior, yeah, but he is the risen king.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yeah. And and that's the part that we tap that we need to tap into. We we we the crucifixion, of course, is that's necessary. He's what he did for us. He he he became the perfect Passover lens. Yes. But man, we can't forget what happened after that. You know, you know what?

Needing A Real God

SPEAKER_00 16:46

I at 12 years of age, I had a crisis as much as a 12-year-old mind could. And I was raised a Catholic. And for the first time in my life, I actually thought about myself as, man, you're a wicked person. And the evidence was there by the things I was involved in. And I looked at that and I looked at myself. And so I have to thank the Catholic Church for this. It's not what they intended, but they ended up blessing me. So I went to church and went to confession and made my confession and told the priest all about what had really happened, my involvement. And then he told me you need to say these. They have prescribed prayers, routine prayers, okay? Yeah. And so he named some prayers for me to repeat. Uh and I prayed what they call the act of contrition. I did that. And then he said, You say so many extra our fathers and hail Mary's and glory bees and 10 or 12, whatever it was, and then go. So I did that. I I left the confessional. I went and I was a Catholic. I went through the process. It was just you it's natural. You believe that. And I knelt down and and you know, they call it genuflect, and then I went to the altar and I made the sign of the cross, and in all sincerity, I said all those prayers. And nothing happened in my heart or mind, other than I was carrying the weight of understanding for the first time. Jeepers, I I did wickedly, I did sinfully, and as much as a 12-year-old could.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

And and it was heavy. So I looked up and there is the statue of the crucified Christ, right? Hanging there. And I I looked up and I started to pray my own prayer, forget about the prayers that I memorized. And I said, God, if you're real, I need to know that you know that you're hearing me. I need you to do something. And as a child, I heard so much about walking statues, talking statues, crying statues, bleeding statues. I I I prayed in all sincerity, and I looked up at the cross, uh, the the statue of the cross and said, I need you to do something. I need at that point, I need a real God.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

I need you to look at me, to wink, to cry, to bleed, do something. So I know that you're real. And of course, nothing happened. And I broke out laughing. It was kind of like a depressed person laughing. And I screamed, F you God. And I threw the middle finger up at the cross and I screamed, There ain't no blankety blank God. The priest wouldn't come out of the confession to talk to me. I don't know if he had another person in there that went behind my back or what. Maybe something kept him from coming out like that. But he didn't come out. And I laughed. There ain't no God. And I walked out. Now I'm gonna tell you how they blessed me there. What the Catholic Church taught me, which was very important for me. They had great respect for things that they consider holy. That's honorable.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Don't ever let anybody tell you it's not. But when I finally did meet God, it's because that I understood God is not a man-made concept or idea. His reality is not based upon the thoughts and the whims and the ideas of men. He is because he is.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Yeah, and so yeah, they they taught me to honor what you think is holy, what you understand is holy. But even though they weren't trying to do it, they instilled in me also later in life, you need a real God.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

So can you briefly share and let's just go around the table and just kind of see? I just want to see where where was the moment where you came to the realization of who Jesus is? What what triggered what happened that all of a sudden you went from being an out of control adolescent, but into you know where it was on the heels of God breaking my addiction and bringing me to

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Repentance.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

And I was Because from that moment, you know, just are you short how what happened from after you told God that and you walked away?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

I was being taught one day somebody said to me, you know, we're Trinitarians. And I said, What does that mean? So we believe in the Trinity. I said, Oh, I believe that, you know, I was raised a Catholic and had a Baptist girlfriend, which it's no problem, I got it. But then I got to looking for the word in the concordance of my Bible. It wasn't there. And they'd been training me for weeks. If it's not in the Bible, don't believe it. And so I left there very confused because you're telling me to believe something that you're saying the Bible alludes to doesn't plainly.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

So how did you even get back into wanting to know anything about the Lord?

SPEAKER_00 22:51

He delivered me from my addiction.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Yeah. Immediately. Immediately. But how did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Just kind of share a quick a crazy man who sounded like he escaped from Uncle Tom's cabin. Yeah. But he loved God deeply, and his accent was horrible. And he put his hand on my head and he starts screaming in the club there on the base. Oh Lord, take this here speed out this here man's body, and I thought I was going to jail. But God made me stone sober in that instant. So he does. He does that. I was paralyzed. I wanted to get up and run out because I didn't want OSI to arrest me. But I was paralyzed. And when he let go of me, I knew I was sober, but I couldn't believe it. I felt my pulse. It should have been it if it was normal. I went in into the restroom because earlier, when I'd really started feeling the effects of the drugs, I had something very strange happen to me. Depend upon the drugs you take, your eyes will dilate all the way to the end, or they will contract all the way back. Well, I'd looked in the mirror when I felt it really working, and I saw my left eye was all the way contracted to a pinpoint, but my right eye was dilated all the way.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Goodness.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

And I was actually trapped in the mirror for I don't know how long. I can imagine. I shook myself and looked away. So I went into the men's room and looked, and my eyes were normal. After that. After that. I went to my room in the barracks, laid down on my bunk, and I said, I will never sleep. I will be awake for the next 22, maybe 26 hours. I'm not going to sleep. It's not gonna happen. I nodded off immediately. Wow. I got up the next morning. First thing I did is go to town to get stoned. And that night, my deliverance was completed. Wow. Yeah, and uh I had visions and it's I can't go into all of that here. Right, right. But it it impacted me. And then when I left that Bible study with these people who I know God had sent into my life and really blessed me, I remember thinking I've been studying, I don't know, 20, 30 minutes, whatever. We looked all through the Bible to try to understand this Trinity thing, which I'd never questioned before, had no need to. They made me question it though.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

And I'm praying, and I say, God, I'm on my way back to the barracks. I don't understand all this stuff. I don't understand this Trinity stuff. I don't get it. I know that when I pray in the name of Jesus, I get answers. I know that you are real. This is where I think we need to be careful because someone else belongs to maybe a different theological thinking in Christianity than you doesn't mean God is not listening to them. Don't ever think that.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

God is far bigger and has invested more in salvation than we ever have.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

But I I I told him, I said, uh, if I need to believe this, I need you to send me someone who can make me understand it. Otherwise, all I know is that you're real and that when I pray in the name of Jesus, I get answers. So I can I just have to believe that somehow it's all wrapped up in you, Jesus. I don't know how. And I had lost all my Christian friends almost asking them to train me and teach me to comprehend the Trinity. Lost them all. When I got to Vietnam, God sent me to a person who when I said to them, You probably don't want to be my friend anymore because I've lost all my Christian friends. And I'm not saying God doesn't answer prayer for these people. I'm just saying, conceptually, this it I couldn't find it in the Bible. Right. And I told him, I said, I don't know how it all works, but I can tell you that's not it. And I'm looking for it in the Bible to find it. I don't know how it works. And he said, I'll show you. I nearly fell over. I said, You you can show me? He said, Sure. I was so excited. I said, Let's do it, man. I got out my little two-dollar Bible, you know, opened it up.

unknown 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

He said, Turn the book of Isaiah, Isaiah chapter 9, verse 6. See, this is the Christmas prophecy, you know. Unto us a child is given, unto us a son is born. Right? And his name shall be called wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting Father. The Son will be called everlasting. He cannot be the Son and be the everlasting Father at the same time. But Isaiah said he is. And I read that and I got so excited. And I said, Oh, okay. I still didn't have complete understanding, but I had excitement because somebody says I can show, and here's a scripture in it starting to, you know, salt the oats, and I'm really thirsty for the Spirit of God. And and I said, What else have you got? He said, That's all. I said, What? He said, That's all. I said, No, no, no, no. We you you know what's in here, yes. I said, You got to show me. He said, No. And I got very frustrated. I said, why not? He said, because the same God who delivered you from your addiction, the same God who made you believe you needed to repent, who filled you with the Holy Ghost, that same God will speak to you still. He'll teach you what you need to know. And no, you'll teach me. You're here, he's invisible. You give it to me, you know. And he said no, and he held his ground. Yeah. Go find it. And even as far as getting baptized in Jesus' name, yeah. He just gave me a few scriptures from the book of Acts, and then he said, now you he gave me a track or two, and he said, Now you you go study it and you'll be convinced for yourself. And I said, No, you're gonna tell me. He said, No. Yeah, but here's what happened. Because I got that counsel, I sat. Yes, yeah. I sat one night with my Bible, yeah, and I picked it up and did this stupidest thing. I dropped it and I put my finger on it, and it was, I still remember the first scripture, Hosea 13 and 4, where God prophesies through Hosea and says, I'm the God that brought you out of Egypt, and I'm the only savior you will ever know. And that hit me. The God, Jehovah, who brought Israel, and when they need a savior in the future, it can only be him. It can only be him, yeah. So somehow this is pointing to Jesus. You know, I don't know if it was 35 or 45 minutes, Diana. I picked up my Bible, and I didn't have enough sense then to make notes. I dropped it in and opened it, and it was an Old Testament scripture that declared Jehovah was the only Savior. And then when I dropped it and put my finger down again, I was in the New Testament and it said, Jesus is the Savior. Yeah. And it began to formulate in me. Yeah. And it was revelatory. I I remembered looking up, I was stunned. There might have been two or other three people in the building, and I thought I could see like propane fumes flowing into my head, and I could feel it. And I don't know if it was 35, 45 minutes, but it's one of the most life-changing minutes for for me. My final decision to be baptized in Jesus' name was affirmed by Scripture, but I wasn't satisfied. I pursued God until he gave me a dream. And I dreamed Romans 6 before I ever studied it. And the first time I heard it taught, I was sitting in a class years later in Bible college, and the teacher, A. B. Keating at Texas Bible College, is teaching my dream. And I'm so stunned I can't say anything, but in my mind, in my spirit, I'm bouncing off the walls. So I encourage you, you must believe that God is and that he is a rewarder of them who diligently seek him. Because what you need to know about him, if you are serious, nobody knows it like him. We don't even know our own hearts. Yeah, but that's not what happened to you. You've received revelation. That I can't tell you how many people I've met since then who have had divine revelation like that over one thing or another that God was trying to teach them, to where it just all unfolded in the scripture. I heard a man who was a Methodist preacher testify that he dreamed that he was reading unpublished writings of Wesley. He had taught in Wesleyan University, and he had read unpublished writings, and he said he dreamed it, and he remembered reading it. And so he got up and found the scriptures. And then he preached from them. And he did that for about six weeks, every Sunday. And finally, when he was told you're you're out, you can't be in the Methodist church anymore. He just said to the church, I have to leave. I've been told I can't preach this here. Thank you for your kindness, yada yada. If anybody here wants to follow me in what God has shown me, meet me in the front of the church. He baptized 25 people in the name of Jesus, and each one of them received the baptism of the Holy Ghost in the pool.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

And what he ended up preaching is what you and I would call the apostolic gospel synopsis, Acts 238.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Okay. And that it never been any, and he said he found it in his dreams, reading after Wesley, and then found it in the scripture. I could believe that easy because I dreamed. That's what you did. That's what you experienced that. I dreamed things and thought, is this really scripture? And then found them in scripture. Or had somebody testify to me. Don't tell me my God isn't real.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

He is, he is, and he shows up the way.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

And I sometimes I don't want anyone to feel like, oh, I'm not educated enough, and I'm not holy enough, and I'm not this enough, because God is enough. He is enough. Yeah. It's not am I enough? Yeah. He is determined he will be enough for me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I get excited and carried away at this point.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

No, no, no, no. All right, Mom, I'm gonna start over with you.

A Family Miracle And Holy Ghost

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Um when did you come to the realization of your necessity for Jesus? What was it in your life that triggered that moment? Okay, I was 16 years old. Because you weren't raised in the church. Oh no. Which always, when you say that, shocks me so to my core. Because anybody that knows you would think, you know, you were anybody that knows her thinks she's wonderful. You know, in the womb that you probably had a Bible in there. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

No, I was 16 years old, and my mother was a drug addict, and she also was an alcoholic, and did a lot of other things. And my father's in the service, and so he wasn't there a lot. He was on TDY a lot, and my mother was in mental institutions from the time I was little, and my dad took it okay. And but after 17 years, he said, I can't take it any longer. Came to me and said, I'm going to divorce your mother. You can stay with her or you can come with me, whichever you want. That night my mother came to me and said, I need a miracle.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

And I said, Okay, well, I was going to. So maybe that's a question. So before that moment, was God or Jesus or anything a part of y'all's life at all? His name was. Yeah. His name, his name was, his name was proclaimed a lot of times.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

No. Um I I have a grand uh my mother's mother um was a Christian, and when I'd go there in the summer times, we'd go to Sunday school and stuff like that. But no, growing up and stuff, there was no Christianity in our home.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Uh there was no there, I'm sure there was a Bible similar. But uh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Ours was on TV at 11 o'clock when the screen went out, the picture of the Bible and the Indian chief.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Yeah, we always got the Indian chief. I don't remember no Bible. But yeah, she came to me one Saturday night and said she needed a miracle. Well, I was going to a church.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Was that Saturday night or Sunday morning?

SPEAKER_02 37:22

No, Saturday night. Okay. Going to a church. She says, but I don't want to go to your the church you're going to right now. I went to church because of the fellowship with the young people. Yeah. We really didn't have any Bible studies or anything or anything. Yeah. I don't remember ever going to Sunday school and never heard about anything except what we were going to do that weekend. Yeah. So she said, I can't go to your church because there's no miracles there. But there I found in the newspaper that over on the other side of the city, there's a brand new preacher that's coming in from Japan. And I want to go and hear them. Will you take me? And I said, sure. But the last time I was in that church, grandmother took me to. I had very short orange, green, whatever hair that was that day. A very short skirt. And I walked in the back door and go-go boots. Go-go boots. We're in the 60s, then. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Early 60s.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Okay. 1963. So I weren't made for walking, huh? Yeah. So people walked in the back door, and the preacher's screaming and hollering, there's black church sin in this church, and I'm going, hmm.

SPEAKER_03 38:47

You really got in.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

I didn't just open the door. Well, I I sat there and and that was the last time I ever darkened that door. But the next morning I took my mother, and it was, I didn't tell you, it was November the 3rd, 1963.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Her dead date.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Wow. And we walked in the door, and there was a different spirit in that church than there was the time that I'd gone before two years earlier. And the people were kind and they they took a hold of my mother and loved her. And on December, the first week in December of that same year, 1963, just a month after we started going, she was baptized in Jesus' name and received the Holy Ghost. Wow. Well, I became very close friends with the young people in that church. And we went to youth camp, which was June of 1964.

SPEAKER_04 39:46

Now, did you still have the orange hair?

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Oh no. No. They decided because my hair was so short, and if we were going to go out with any young people, they'd put my hair in a little tiny ponytail, then attached to ponytail. And I couldn't wear the clothes that got me this ugly dress. And so I went to buy youth camp in this dress. Yeah. And with my hair. Your fake ponytail. In my fake ponytail. So, but the young lady that was sitting with me was a very close friend. She's a couple years younger than I. And she says, Go down to the altar. Now she was born and raised in church, and she hadn't received the Holy Ghost yet. But she wanted to receive the Holy Ghost, so she wanted to go down to the altar. She didn't want to go alone. Would you please go with me? I said, okay. I got to the altar and there was just something that came over me. Within 15 minutes, I was speaking in tongues. My hands were raised. And I one of the patriarchs in our organization.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Matriarchs, Mama. But there is a Oh, yeah, there was a patriarch there too. There were a couple of them. I stand corrected. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Winifred Black and Sister Mangan were praying with me. And after 15 or 20 or 30 or 40 minutes or however long.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Sister Mangan?

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Vesta Mangan.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Prayed for you? Yes, ma'am. Well, you're gonna get something, Miss Sister Vesta, praise for you, you know what I'm saying? Okay. Oh okay. I didn't ever put that together.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

She did. And so was Winifred Black, and he was had a night, a big church in St. Louis. And so after I received the Holy Ghost, she said, Lady, and that's the if you'd have spoken another five minutes, I'd have ordained you a missionary. And that was our our walk. That's the very first time. The next day, my brother received the Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

So your whole family dynamic changed. It wasn't just it was your mother came, then it happened to you.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Me and my brother, then my father, and my brother and I were all baptized the same day. It was a it was Father's Day of 1964. And but I've been on the mission field several times.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Her dad her dad is still the greatest Christian man I've ever known, and he's been dead for years.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

And then he was not a Christian when we were growing up.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

What she didn't tell you, I know you didn't ask me this, but you gotta know it. Yeah. Was the night before. Yes, I hadn't gotten there yet. Her grandmother was at an all-night prayer meeting and put my mother-in-law's name on the board. On the board. And that morning she got up the next morning and said, You're taking me to church. And her life was never the same. Please don't discount intercessory prayer. I know she'd been praying for her daughter for 30 or 40 years before then.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

You have to think. My mu my grandmother had 18 children. She honed, she honed in on my mother. 18. 18. My mother was number 17. So, yeah, it became a I going from high school, then I went to Bible college, then I went to the foreign mission field, then the home mission field, and then back, my father called me when I was in South Carolina and said, You need to come home. I'm going, I've got a lovely job. I've got a nice apartment. I'm go going to a good church. Why am I coming home? He says, You just need to come home. I feel that you need to come home. So I packed up and drove myself from South Carolina to New Mexico. And a week later, this man shows up.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

History was made. Yes. And he went, God, are you got to be kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 44:13

But you see where she is.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

I see where she is and has been for a long time. So yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

When my father asked me to take go out with him to pick up a young man from the base that had just gotten in from Vietnam. I was dating a young man in Sherman. I also had a free El Paso.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

She was dating two young men.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

And so on the way out there, God spoke to me audibly and said, You're about to meet the man you're spending the rest of your life with. I'm going, can't be this one. Who in the world is this guy? When he walked out the door, I looked up the sky. I said, God, you have got to be kidding me. This is not a six foot four, he's not blonde-headed, not got blue eyes. I don't see a guitar or an instrument in his hand.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

But a year later, we were married. Wow. So here's the thing. When your dad said to move, he wanted you to move back, you didn't argue that.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

I mean, I I was lonesome. I I I was way out in the middle of nowhere by myself. The church that I went out there to be with, the the preacher decided he didn't want to have that church anymore, handed me the keys to the church and said, We're leaving. So I kept those keys because everybody else decided they were leaving also. Oh my gosh. And so I started going to a little church over in South Augusta.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

Pause, Mama. Why did why did he leave? Why did he decide me and these people are not going to be able to make it?

SPEAKER_02 46:06

We were having a you know, not not Halloween, but a harvest time party at at the church, and he invited the black apostolic people to come over and and fellowship with us. Well, after we had our party and everything, the people came to him and said, We cannot do this if you're gonna invite black people. This this was This is a deep sound.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

This is the very deep sow.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Jim Crow was still in some places. And so they left. Well, he couldn't stand not having a place to take his children to Sunday school or whatever, because there was nobody. So he left. I don't remember where he went.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

You know what's amazing to me is in a time when much of the church was in tune with segregation, this man rose above it. And it cost him his pastorate to rise above it.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

But I was wondering why he left. Why wouldn't he stay there?

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Because there wasn't anyone to shepherd. They all left.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Oh, and he didn't want and he had two little children.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Two little children.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Him and his wife needed something more substantial. And I was paying tithes, but this one tithe payer was not able to sustain them. I I worked in the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

It was hard, but he made the best decision he could. That's all.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

And so I so I the day uh the week before I left to go back to New Mexico, there was a uh a minister that came all the way from Washington State that he was going to take the church, so I did hand him the keys to the church. So he he started a church there, and I can't remember the man's name. I'm sorry, whoever you are. But I went home. I started going to I I registered to go to nursing school. Because that's what my father said. If you come home, I'll put you through nursing school and I'll get you a white cat. I didn't get a white cat, I got a little d orange kitty.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

She had orange kitty that was I'm not necessarily a cat person, but me and Lucy got along just like cake and ice cream.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Yeah, I'm not a cat person either, but I like Osarge.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

He Lucy had so much personality. She we couldn't walk to the grocery store unless we locked her in the house. Yeah. She would walk to the cross. Because she'd walk with us. And you know, of course she wanted to come in the store and we couldn't let her in the store. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

But she'd be waiting for us when we got out. We didn't want her to get run over and all that stuff. Mama's white cat was it was actually orange.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Orange. Well, that's amazing. It's amazing. All right, sister audio quickly because we got it in.

From Fear Of God To Love

SPEAKER_01 49:03

But tell us, tell me where we took up too much time. Audio that's fine. But tell me where it was where you were in your life. What point in time was it where you just knew that your life intersected with something supernatural and you and you came into relationship with Jesus?

SPEAKER_04 49:24

I think when I was around 12 or so, and I think I've told you this, we were going to the Baptist church. I had been in a conglomeration of churches because, like you, my mother was a drug addict. She was also, and this was in the 50s, she had gone through a bunch of surgeries. She was addicted to pain pills. I was only five at the time. And she chose my dad was TDY a lot. In fact, he was in Alaska when this happened. They had to bring him home. My mom took off.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

She left Because her dad was military too.

SPEAKER_04 50:07

Yeah, he was Air Force. And um he um we were living there on the base, and she called a neighbor who babyset for us and said, Can I bring the kids over? I need to go to the PX and the commissary. And she never came back. And so about nine o'clock that night when they couldn't find her and they had the MPs out looking for her and everything, and nobody knew where she was, they realized that she had taken off and so they got in touch with my dad and flew him home. So here I was the oldest. I was five. My brother and sister were twins, they were four. And anyway, I was just and then that whole next year we went to live with my grandmother, and you understand my grandmother, I was very close to my grandparents. I used to go with them all the t all the time go to Shreeport. They used to my grandma used to come and get me, not my brother and sister, just me, and take me back to Shreeport. But my dad was Catholic. My mother, I guess, was raised Methodist. So I my other grandmother always took me to Mass. So all I knew really was Catholic. So when my dad couldn't take care of us, he put us in a home for children like the Buckner home. It was it was the Hendrix home there in Abilene. And I started going to the Baptist church, which made no sense to me at all. Having been, you know, nobody crossed themselves, nobody genuflected, nobody Peter did anything. Yeah. And so it was very confusing. And then my dad remarried, and my stepmother was Baptist, so we started going to Baptist Church for a little bit. And then we got transferred to Delaware and we didn't go to church there. And we finally ended up back in Abilene. And then my parents, my dad and my stepmother separated, and my dad took us to Houston. So then we went to Houston, so then they got back together, and we moved to Houston and we started going to church. And I was about 12 then, and we started going to this Baptist church. And it was it was a pretty calm Baptist church as far as Baptist churches go, that first one. And we were having a revival, and that night this preacher, you know, he called for people to come down. And and I had been feeling some conviction and and and stuff. I had been feeling it. But then, but I was terrified to walk down that aisle by myself.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

I was kind of scary, especially if it's red carpet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:10

And it was very scary. And so I was standing there gripping the pew in front of me. And and then he said, Everybody who's not saved, no, everybody who's saved, sit down.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

Oh god.

SPEAKER_04 53:22

Oh no. You know. And so and so, of course, I was standing, my brother and sister were standing, and we're all looking at each other like, you know, and and I don't know why one of my parents didn't, because my dad had gotten saved a few months before. I don't know why one of them didn't take us by the hand and and walk us down, but they didn't, they made us go by ourselves. And I was I was terrified and I didn't even know. I was just blubbering and crying and saying, I I just I just know I need Jesus, you know. And for me that was, you know, it was the moment, and I honestly believed that, but my life just never it never got to a point that I really understood about God. And the next church we started going to, all they did was preach hellfire and damnation, and I was, you know, and Jesus loves you, but you're gonna go to hell if you don't, if you do this. You know, type deal. And it was I was terrified all the time. I was so scared of God, and nobody ever said read your Bible, and and I don't know that I would have understood it as a teenager reading the King James. And I just live in const I lived for a long time in constant fear, but it didn't stop me from sinning, you know, unfortunately. And it it took me a long time, and it really wasn't until and I mean I made a mess of my life. I I really did during all those years. And it it finally was when I came to Rampin. I came there. And the people were here. Oh gosh, 2016. 2000, no, before that, we had gone, we had gone a couple of times. I was in my 60s. And quite a bit of time had taken place from the time you were 12 until I was in my sixties, and we had gone a couple of times after my late husband had his heart transplant. But he had felt he was raised, well, he was raised nothing, but then his grandmother had left the Baptist church and become a Jehovah's Witness and to brought him there. Whoa. And then he got kicked out. He got this fellowship. So so we he had some friends who were pastors who taught said, Hey, why don't y'all go to this cowboy church? So we went, and I felt like I had found a place. The people were kind. They were really nice. They were really nice people. Everybody welcomed us. Nobody questioned anything, you know, and they they really did welcome me in there. And I finally figured out that God did love me. And it was okay what I mean, it wasn't okay what I had done, but it was those things that had to bring me to the understanding. Yeah. And for me, that was that moment.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Yeah.

Not Too Far Gone And Closing

SPEAKER_01 56:46

So probably all along the way, you could say there were moments where you had just a an epiphany of who God was and the necessity for who, you know, wanting to know him. And I think we can all say that, right? All of a sudden there was just a moment in time in the whole where we had this experience with something and someone that we couldn't see, but we definitely felt it, you know, and then and then it just became a necessity.

SPEAKER_04 57:16

Yeah, there were so many times I look back right now that I should have been dead or in a hospital or anything. I mean, we all it wasn't for God.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Yeah, that's my point. Yeah, that's what when you were talking earlier about you know how how Christians see Christians, we see other people as people. God sees other people as other children. Yeah, and in our mind, we can't fathom that. We just see them as stupid people. Why don't you do this? Why don't you just do it, you know? Right. But God says uh he sees them as his children. If we saw everybody like we see our own children, wouldn't we have a lot more compassion?

unknown 57:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

Right? And so anyway, I'm I'm so grateful you guys shared your stories, and I know that we could go on and on and on. We do have Sister Audia's testimony on video. It's like a on podcast, it's it's about an hour and a half long. Uh, but there's parts there where I just I couldn't even speak because I was going, What? You did what?

SPEAKER_00 58:21

I was like, there's a lot of things we just ain't confessing, okay?

SPEAKER_01 58:26

No, she confessed it, she confessed it all, brother. She got it all on the podcast, and that's what I'd really like to have is all of us just sit down and share our testimony raw and real. Because I think people hear us on this side now, they don't know where we came from. That's true, they don't know what we've been through. I'm gonna tell you something. I I've been through some stuff, some things I didn't ask for, but some things I opened the door for. And and man, I mean, yeah, so we need to all share because wherever you're at right now, wherever you're listening, wherever you're you're you're getting this podcast from, you're not too far gone. It doesn't matter what you've done, where you've come from, how bad you've been, God will still meet you in that moment.

SPEAKER_04 59:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 59:17

I had to go to my children because I wanted them to listen to the podcast. Yeah. And she had to give them a I had to give them a heads up and I said, You're gonna hear some things that you just that you've never heard. That you've never heard or never suspected of me. But I want you to, I I want you to know that was then, and this is the person I am now.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

That's not who I am anymore.

SPEAKER_03 59:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

Thanks to Jesus, thanks to his blood, thanks for him just reaching out and rescuing us, each of us, right? So all right, so y'all, we get we've already an hour into this, but I'm so grateful y'all shared just bits of what God brought you through. Just loving the word, living that book of John. I'm excited where we're going with that. So we're gonna end this podcast. We're gonna just do our tagline to go show some love, show some compassion, give mercy and go be Jesus today. Hey SDU family, if you have enjoyed this podcast today, would you please like, follow, and share our podcast link? And we would love to hear your feedback and your podcast topic suggestions. To do that, simply go to our website at www.m3mi.org, scroll to the more tab, and select contact us. Also, if SGU has been a blessing to you, you can also go to our website and select sow a seed. There are several ways that you can give, whether it's Zel, Venmo, Cash App, or there's an address to send a check or money order. All your gifts are tax deductible, and we thank you so much for sowing your seed with us. I want you to remember this. A wise person once said that a person has given you their time, they've given you their most precious gift because they can never ever get it back. Thank you for sharing this day with me. We love you, we'll see you soon.