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For educators looking to connect, learn, and share knowledge about serving first-generation college and college-bound students.
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Navigating Career Paths: Success Stories and Strategies for First-Generation Students with Mike Wysocki
Join us for a conversation with Mike Wysocki, a first-generation graduate, who reveals how he turned hurdles into stepping stones on his journey to success. From a working-class suburb of Boston to the broader horizons of UMass Amherst, Mike candidly shares how a change in major from engineering to sociology opened unexpected doors. He talks about the critical role of attitude and determination in carving out a career path, and why he chose the business world over social work. This episode offers valuable insights into the winding road of career choices and the importance of exploring opportunities to find what fits.
Curious about how effective communication can set you apart in the job market? Mike shares his experience of being published in various magazines, and how it became a unique asset during job interviews, underscoring the power of accomplishments on a resume. We also discuss the motivation behind his book, "Careers by the People," and his aim to guide first-generation, low-income individuals in balancing financial success with personal fulfillment. Mike emphasizes the necessity of understanding teams and collaboration to become an indispensable asset in any organization.
In our discussion, we explore the unpredictable journeys people take to find success and fulfillment, from unconventional career paths to the importance of mentorship and real-world experience. Mike shares anecdotes of individuals who broke the mold and found joy in unexpected fields, and stresses the critical role of making informed career choices. If your students are facing similar challenges, he offers encouragement and practical advice on how to harness available resources like faculty and alumni networks. Connect with Mike through his website, LinkedIn, and YouTube channel for more inspiration and guidance on navigating your own career journey.
Mike Wysocki
After toiling in corporate America for 30+ years, Mike Wysocki finally put his sociology degree to work by researching a variety of occupations and collected hundreds of responses from industry veterans then choosing the best 101 for the award-winning and best-selling book Careers By the People.
www.careersbythepeople.com
www.linkedin.com/in/mike-wysocki-021679/
Please help others find this podcast by rating and reviewing wherever you listen!
You can find me at https://www.firstgenfm.com/ and on LinkedIn. My email is jen@firstgenfm.com.
Welcome and welcome back to the First Gen FM podcast, where we high school and college educators strengthen, celebrate and support first-generation college and college-bound students. I'm Jennifer Schoen, your host. Please call me Jen. I'd love it if you could leave a review and a rating for this podcast to help other educators find us. Thank you so much for taking the time to do that. Now let's dive into this week's episode.
Speaker 1:Today I'm going to be talking to Mike Wisaki, author of Careers by the People candid career advice from 101 experienced professionals. We met at a Gear Up conference because he is both an author and a speaker, sharing what he's learned in his own life about careers, as well as what he has learned from all of his interviews with people in a very wide variety of careers. Now you might catch Mike's accent because he is from Massachusetts. So it was a real pleasure to talk with him and he is a true Massachusetts Ian, also known as a Bay Stater, because that Massachusetts Ian thing is way too hard to say. So he's going to tell it like it is and he's going to be a straight shooter. So I really enjoyed talking with Mike and I hope you get some great information as well. As always, I'll put information in the show notes. So if you're looking to contact Mike or get a copy of his book, you will find that information there.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining me today. Let's talk to Mike. Hey, welcome, mike, to First Gen FM. I'm really excited to have you here as an author, as a first gen yourself, to talk to other educators like me who are looking to see how they can help students, and especially about careers and looking at careers and getting ready for careers, because I know that's your specialty. So I'm going to start with the question I always ask everybody is how did you get involved in this and what did your journey to college look like as a first generation student?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, yeah, how do you get involved with it? It's basically God. I grew up in the suburb of Boston called Weymouth and all like that. It's a working class area, and so when I was in high school it was like, what are you going to do after high school? And I never thought about it, and so my grades weren't even that great and the guidance counselor kept pushing me towards military construction or something like that. And I'm like no, I want to try out this college thing. And he goes OK, here's a good school, go apply to this school. And I'm like OK, boston State. I don't recall Boston State and it was a school years ago and by the time I applied to it it didn't exist. So I got not only bad information, I got to apply to a school that didn't exist.
Speaker 2:But luckily I got into UMass Boston and from there, you know, you start, you know bouncing through the system. And I met a friend who was going to Amherst and UMass Amherst. And I go hey, hey, dino, how are you getting into UMass? I mean, how are you over there? I mean, that's more expensive, you have less money than my family does. And he goes no, you don't get it, he goes because of our poverty, he goes. You can just transfer over there, he goes, taxpayers will pay for it. I'm like'm like, okay, great.
Speaker 2:So I got over to umass amherst and, um, it changed, it changes my thinking in my world. I met all these students that were doing a variety of different things and from there it's just like, hey, I got a chip on my shoulder, I've got a good attitude about going out there and hustling and getting a gig. And the irony was was that I, when I met these elite students from these nicer suburbs, I'm like what are you doing in the same school that I'm in? Geez, I thought you were like you know this upper echelon, blah, blah, blah. But anyway, so yeah, so that's how it all started and, um, I mean I just my mother said, you know, you know, just try college, push me to college, and all like that. And that's, I mean kind of like I gave it a shot and that. And what happened?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So what did you end up majoring in and did that lead you directly to a career? Or was I always think of you know, people talk about a career ladder. I think it's really more of a career jungle gym or a career ropes course, and that there's so many different options you can choose. So how did that? What did that look like for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny. I'm going to actually pick up that book one of these days, squiggly Career, because it sounds like an interesting one. Yeah, no, no, no. So it's actually worse. I mean, one of my friends, she was in sociology. She explained to me what it was about and I'm like great, because I thought it was going to be an engineering course. But after I got beat down big time in a lot of engineering classes, I'm like you know what else is there. So, beat down big time in a lot of engineering classes, I'm like you know what else is there, so I can just focus on get a degree, get a degree, get a degree. She was in sociology, so I chose sociology and so I still kept it.
Speaker 2:When I'm going from UMass Boston to UMass Amherst, and then I remember I really right at the end of my schooling, I went to like a local bar and stuff like that, and I saw all my sociology students. They were there, they were hanging out together and I was never included. I don't know why, but I and so we talked about after college what are we going to do? And they're all going to social work. And I go social work, I go. I'm going into business, I go, that's what the money is. And so right after there I stumbled my way into getting a job at Fidelity because the hiring manager was from guess where UMass, amherst. He wasn't a friend, but he was a guy who was really cool a couple of years old. I didn't know him in school, but he hooked me up from there.
Speaker 2:But no, my whole thing was get and this was and people, students have to remember this is back in the 80s. So I'm like just get a degree, get into some company and hopefully you'll figure it out from there. So that's where my path landed. But no, I didn't use sociology until writing this book and so I used it technically 30 years later or something like that. But yeah, no, it was never a value. It's good for comedy's sake, but it's not a value really. But the irony is, it worked out. I mean, I wrote a book and it's not a sociological review but a sociologist.
Speaker 1:They loved it, two of them actually did so I got two sociologists who love my work. So, yeah, I mean, I like to think knowledge never goes to waste and you never know what you learn along the way that is going to come back to you to use later. So you know, it probably seemed like I'm going to Fidelity, I'm getting a job in business, I'm not going to use my sociology stuff, but it probably snuck in there when in your interactions with other people and then, like you said, when you wrote the book, it's like, oh okay, like it's coming back around.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're, you're, you're a hundred percent correct. You never know who you're going to meet, what you're going to do, what's going to occur and what you learned and how it can integrate, I mean within the book. I mean, how many people lately have quote Jacob Risk? You know what I mean. So I mean I bring back a lot of things that I learned throughout readings, through information, through history and all like that, and how it can integrate into today's society and how it can help others with thoughts and ideas about the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I, I, I think that too, the sociology degree I mean it's, you know, there's degrees that go directly. It's like, well, I'm going to study nursing, I'm going to be a nurse, I'm going to study accounting, I'm going to be an accountant. But when you're studying sociology or psychology or English, which was my major- no-transcript, great or minor in it.
Speaker 2:I think English is the best because if you can clearly write or speak or understand how terminology works and how to get your point across, I mean that is intense and people have to understand. I mean, if you have those basic skills that you can move your net. I always tell students your net worth will increase if you can do x, y or z. And one example, one example I always use is public speaking. And these people that are afraid to public speak, just cut 25 off your income right there. Boom, you can't do it, you know. So I, I, just I go.
Speaker 2:You have to go out there and the things that you can't deal with deal with with, like public speaking, and go take a class at college. If you don't have it, community college might have it. If not, um, toast, you know. Or the other curveball too is I go. You know what, if you really want to get into the corporate America, go take an acting class. You might learn some tricks and trades and how to deal with people and how to read people's personalities. I go, there's so many angles out there to do that are these hidden skills that can improve your life.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean yeah, anything, I know. I tell them go thing. I know I tell them go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was going to say I know that this is, you know, when I sent you some questions to talk about. This is one of the questions and this is out of order from where I listed it, but it seems a nice segue to talk about those professional skills. You know that a lot of people call soft skills that. You know that I call power skills, because there's nothing soft about them. They're absolutely necessary to thrive. What have you discovered about professional skills? Because clearly that's what we're talking about Students, you know, taking classes to learn some of those really solid, both communication skills, but also interpersonal skills.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you get about six hours, I can talk about that. But here's a couple of things. Two, is I like professional or power? I hate soft skills. The word soft skills get rid of it. And the other thing, too, is so power? I mean, power was actually that's really cool. You should copyright that, as they say, or professional. Here's how it all occurred for me, because I was in technology sales for 30 years and all we lived and died by was our professional skills or soft skills or power skills, whatever you want to call them. But we didn't understand. I mean, we didn't know what the words were and what they meant. All we know is that this is how we get our business done. So this is how it all occurred, why I really pushed professional skills as much.
Speaker 2:Uh, and I can thank the university of new hampshire. I spoke there a few times and these guys are great. Uh, these guys are great to me, and they just got some good rankings too. Um, it's something about in new england, you know, one of the best state schools. So, uh, and then, and and I the person my connection over there is like, hey, we like your presentations, but, uh, would you mind adding soft skills? Oh, and I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll do it. I'll do whatever they need, right, whatever the students need and want, I'll figure it out. And I was telling my goal if it's not in my book, if it's not in my speaking activities, I'll do a youtube, I'll figure it out. And so that I googled soft skills and professional skills and it came up with a, a Harvard review and Forbes, and I'm like those guys are credible. So I listed like the top five and they debated about one and I talked to the students about each professional skill and, as we spoke about earlier, it's, you know, speaking is imperative, and public speaking, but also it's communication with writing too. And so I tell them this one about writing. I go here's how you. I go All I'm going to do is give you ideas on how you can build up. So when you compete against somebody else going for that gig, that you'll win by, you know, one percent, two percent, whatever.
Speaker 2:But here's an example in writing, I go how can you prove if you're a good writer? Because it's important with communication skills, get something published, and I go. Get it published anywhere, uh, the university of new hampshire magazine field and stream, I don't care, you know the local weymouth news or something like that, don't care, but it says you have something published. And if something published that interests you or an industry that you're getting into something like that, even better. But it's one line item on your resume that might separate you from the others. And examples I go back to when I was interviewing. I remember I was interviewing with the company and I just be getting the gig was pretty high and the hiring manager goes oh, I see you were published in this magazine. I go no, I was published four times in the magazine and uh. But the point was how many other sales reps and technology you're going to write about what they've been published in? So you separate yourself from the rest.
Speaker 2:But the professional skills you have to learn all of them and you have to. I mean, like I also, you're going to work in a team and the team aren't your friends you hang out with in the weekend or your classmates. They're the polar opposite. You came from big city. They're rural. They came from the East Coast, came to the West Coast. They're from Texas. You're from Indiana. Everything is totally different. I mean, they're from a foreign country. You got a PhD at Yale. They got a GED from you know Florida, or something like that.
Speaker 2:The point is you have to learn to understand and give people opportunities and suggestions. Why are they there, understand their views, and I go. The funny thing is, in time that person might be a trusted advisor. So 15 years down the road you might call them and say hey, bob, you got a minute, I got a question. I'm dealing with this situation and I can't comprehend it from my viewpoint. What do you understand from this viewpoint? So I try to get that ingrained as much as possible, because in school it's like, as we talk, you know, on the flip side is hard skills, hard skills, hard skills. Some students go I was going to get you know, take a class on Python and be a Python, and I'm like, okay, great, but you still got to go get a gig and interview and blah, blah, blah. So networking oh God, jen, there's so much I mean that they're needing help with. And when I talk to students they come up with a curveball.
Speaker 1:I'm like let me think it out and whip up a video you know, yeah, and I just I think, adding to the hard skills because A you have to have some of those skills to get the job and then to move forward and be successful, regardless of your computer program or engineer, you engineer.
Speaker 1:If you want to go places, you need to be able to communicate and that's probably the best skill that you can get. And I think oftentimes people think of public speaking as well. I'm never, ever going to speak in front of an auditorium with 30,000 people. It's like, well, maybe not, but you're going to be in, like you said said a small group of people coming from all different backgrounds, and you might be the team leader or you might not be a team leader, but you have to contribute to that group. And if you can learn how to communicate and listen, which is part of communication, then you can really be a powerful person within your organization and within what you do, and that's going to get you recognized.
Speaker 2:Yeah, without question, and all like that. But the other thing about communications too is, when it comes to moving up the ladder, the one who communicates the better is going to have a better chance than the person who sits in the cubicle and just does a really great job. But you know, they can't lead. They don't know all their associates, they have no idea what's going on, they don't understand the politics of the organization. So there's so many angles to it. But yeah, I mean without question, so yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. So you're sitting around, you're doing technical sales and you're suddenly like, hey, I want to write a book about careers, you know, careers by the people, candid career advice from experienced professionals. That is your book. Like how did that get started and why did you decide to write that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's I really. I really appreciate that question because it's it's it's kind of like the crux of my world. Here's what happened basically is Because I was a first-generation low-income. There was only one answer for any type of gig how much money can you make? Money, money, money, money, money.
Speaker 2:The idea of satisfaction or joy is out the window. Could care less? An FGLI will take a job for one more dollar an hour if the job they totally hated, just to make the extra money, because it's so ingrained. Money is the root to all happiness. That's all they know. And and it hasn't changed.
Speaker 2:And people always say like, oh yeah, the world's changed. No, it hasn't, it's the same. I talk to students all the time nothing has changed. Um, so why did I do it? It's, and that's a good. I mean, people can say what they want about higher powers, but in my head I believe in it. Because the fact is, why was this given to me, this idea? I don't know, but I could act upon it. A lot of people have ideas oh, I'm a great idea, man. They don't do a damn thing with it. But in this situation it was drilled at me and it was the proverbial monkey on the back that was just bashing me in the head saying get this done. And so I really thought about it, angles and ideas and all like that.
Speaker 2:And the thing that really irked the hell out of me is when you read about these people in their careers. Everybody has their views and opinions, but yet the guys got a PhD in psychology from a top notch university and he's talking about the plight of the worker. He's never painted a house before. He's never, you know. You know, I mean put bags on an airplane. So I'm like, you know, I'm going to go after those guys, people that are doing everything from A to Z and I truly don't care. You love your job, you hate your job. Let's get it on paper and in my book. You know what I mean. So I have CEOs, actuaries, accountants. Each of them has 20 plus questions, majority of five plus years in their field, and so I got this, all these questions done, and I was like I asked a lot of people I knew in the industry to go what do you think? And they're like I like this one, this one might add this one. So I did all this quality control to find this information out and I got this information and people started filling out my questionnaires and it was. It was intense and I couldn't believe some of the wild ones I got. I mean, some were horrible, but those get deleted and some are amazing. So for book one it's 101. For book two, it's going to be 102. English 101, english 102, right, right, right.
Speaker 2:So the other thing too is it's like what's my thought process? It's like what can I do? So the thought of the book is what I should have done to prepare for the real world. And I do not bash or badmouth the University of Massachusetts, it's not like you said, it's not their issue. I did go to the career center but my mind was elsewhere. It's just like I was just trying to figure out how do I get out of school and you get so many different angles like pulling at you, which isn't a bad thing, but it's like I think, for some students that are so baffled, it's like maybe get out of college and then start really focusing in if you haven't got around to it. But so that's what happened with me.
Speaker 2:But of course, my thing was I worked at the liquor store and a couple of days a week was interviewing for, like the real world jobs and that's how it all started.
Speaker 2:But then, but then, you know, after making the cash in technology sales, this idea popped in my head and with money you can do things and instead of going out the golf course or taking those great vacations or you know, you know, thinking you're so dynamite, I'm like you know what, I'm gonna get something done and something cool, and I'm gonna get this book out there and, and that's what my gift is out there and that's what I babble and talk to the students about, and that's why I'm writing book two as well, because I think, like you and I said First Gen, the potential is out there.
Speaker 2:These young people are out there and they've got great minds, but yet they're from areas where people do like where I grew up in North Weymouth five or six different gigs. And to have them come out of those areas and do something different, it's going to take a lot of steps. They're going to have to deal with it and talk to a lot of people and have to really narrow this down and figure it out, and so maybe I can help them in a small way, uh, and go from there. So that's, that's my, that's all I do, all I do all the time. I mean 24 by 7, basically.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, I mean I think I think for a lot of students you know you're in high school and you're basically taking the, the five major courses, with the, with the few modifications, but you're taking math and science and english and and history and a language you know and most schools.
Speaker 1:But then you go to college. You know if, if you do get to go to college, suddenly there's you know, depending on where you go, 70, 100, 300 majors, combined majors, dual majors, all these things you can look at and your world opens up and in some ways it's like I don't know what to do with all those things. But I know doctor, lawyer, engineer, and I know that they make money, so I'm going to have to choose one of those. And so really having students start to think about there's so many other things out there like, oh, you want to be in business, well, we're in business, did you know? And then you know that whole world opens up and I think you know by you talking to these folks and getting that information and saying like, hey, share some of these things, you know it a more narrative way of looking at, like the occupational outlook handbook, right, that will give you some information, but it's not nearly like as good as combining that with your book and what the people who are doing the job are saying.
Speaker 2:What is it with that? I mean, I'll give you an example of a Saturday. I'm not going to tell you the name of the school it's in the West coast or in the midwest, or whatever, and that was the debate they go. Why should we bring you in when we can have it? Was it, would you say? The hammock was called the one, the one that the occupational outlook can?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, we can use that yeah, and I'm like really I go. It says basically a painter makes 18, 25 an hour and he or she wakes up at 8, 45 and it's like paints a wall. I go it's awful, I go it should be deleted. I mean, why not not deleted? But you don't. I mean it should be. I mean it's, it's, it's gibberish. Basically some guy in a corner in dc writing a big stuff and all this thing, everything with this money, stuff. I'll give an example on money. This was great.
Speaker 2:One of the high schools I spoke to in boston area is two students. Both came from the next town over, which is a brockton, basically a rough town, rough place and the students are commuting over to a better area. And I'm speaking to him and one of the students is like these ideas and he was coming up with these questions. I'm like, oh my god. I'm like I'm so it's basically myself and like I don't know 7500 students and I'm really focused on this one young young student and this. I'm thinking so it's basically myself and like I don't know 7,500 students and I'm really focused on this one young student and I'm thinking to myself this guy's like a genius. Who is next? You know, whatever, elon Musk. And so I'm like, ok.
Speaker 2:And then another student's asking questions I just want money, money, money. How much do you make? What are you worth? Blah, blah, blah I'm and he was just driving me nuts and I go OK, that's it. You just want money. Easiest question in the world Get an MBA from Wharton, be an investment banker on Wall Street, and it's $3 to $5 million a year.
Speaker 2:Does that keep you happy? You know what I mean. But it's the other student that was like I'm trying to do these in businesses, I'm trying to get this stuff done. And it's because any of these reports that come out going you know best jobs or highest paying jobs some of them are nonsense. They go and, like an anesthesiologist, makes like $325,000. Okay, that's great $325,000, there's nothing wrong with that. That's good money. But if you're an investment banker like I just talked about, or a venture capitalist making $7 million, $15 million, I mean, I remember years ago Michael Milken made $450 million, even though he probably stole most of it, but some of these guys are crushing it. Not a good example? Yeah, exactly, but some of these people out there in the marketplace are crushing it, but yet they're looking at these and so just pull away from the money.
Speaker 2:What interests you, what are you good at and what can make you a couple bucks so you actually enjoy Monday mornings? That's the whole angle, because you're going to wake up students at 28, 35, 72. I mean not 72, you know, like in the 50s or whatever, and are they looking forward to Monday or are they dreading it because they chose an awful career just for money. And you know they have to, you know. So that's right, because I think I might be the only speaker in America that will go out there and say, hey, I made a few bucks, not big money, but you know more than what you can make, where I grew up and why I despised it. You know why I could have done better with myself.
Speaker 2:There's no. All these speakers go out there and they say how great they are, you know, and tell students to run an extra mile or drink more water. Nobody to run an extra mile or drink more water. Nobody goes out there and says you know what? I didn't prepare and this is what happened. And do you want to be me in 30 years? So that's why I always tell the schools like, oh, I'm the token, you're not going to get anybody like me out there. They're all hype men, you know it's like. Oh, I never made a wrong decision.
Speaker 1:I'm perfect. Yeah, no-transcript. Look at what you like to learn and then think about, and then use my book or talk to people yourself about what they're doing that you want to go into yeah, I 100, there's no question.
Speaker 2:I mean they really get it. I always tell them narrow it down to you know what industries interest you? I go. I was in tech, it didn't interest me. So that, I think, is an achilles heel constantly because, um, I couldn't stay focused on a lot of conversations because it just bored me to death. You have to find an industry that interests you. I go. At the end of the day you'll probably read about that industry and I go. The other thing too is you can bounce around the industry, but at least you're going to be somebody who's bringing knowledge. I mean I had to fake it for 30 years. I mean I brought in a lot of knowledge, but it was just because you know to survive or pay more bills, or you know get more money in the bank or something like that.
Speaker 2:Oh, frank Parsons. You know Frank Parsons is the OG of vocation and Frank says, other than a spouse, your second. You know, your biggest choice in life is a career and this was and he wrote this in 1909. And still to this day people like, oh, I got to get that TV. That's like, yeah, you got to get a TV, that's great. Not like that, but for the love of Jesus.
Speaker 2:I mean just sit there and just do some homework about career opportunities, what's out there. You know, have you spoke to how many people in the industry you want to go into? How many people you speak to how many have your job shattered? Have you spoke to anybody that left? I mean I sit there and I just rapidly drill them with questions of like you know, come on, but once in a while in my next book one example one student is she's going into law and I was like really drilling her about questions they go have you spoke to?
Speaker 2:She goes yep, worked in a law firm in the summit three years ago. Excellent, I go. You connected with the lawyers. Yes, I have three or four mentors. I'm like, perfect, I go every job shadow. She goes yes, we do that. I'm like, okay, well, because I mean a lot of people I've known in the industry I mean just in general the years got these law degrees and never went into law or just took it for three to five years. I mean she's really adamant about it, which is awesome. Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:She's done her homework.
Speaker 2:She's doing amazing homework, yep, and she's from a high school. She went to high school as career in technical education, so that helps out immensely too.
Speaker 1:So that's a whole nother can of worms which is dynamite. There is some good stuff happening out there. Yes, yeah, oh, I think so, absolutely. I mean, I think there is a move towards helping students. You know I'll speak from the college front, since I work at a college, but you know, on the college front, helping students connect what they're learning in classroom to an internship, or you know, research, which is also hands-on learning. You know, doing some sort of you've learned this, now put it into practice and then come back with what you learned in practice and that's going to inform what just really helps students move forward and decide yes, I like this or no, I don't like this. And if I do like this, well, what more experience can I get? What's the next level of experience I can get before I leave college?
Speaker 2:Which is awesome. You have to get them in the real world as soon as possible. I mean, northeastern does it. I mean, even when I was working for Deli, we had an intern from northeastern and I'm like what? And he told me about the program. I'm like, uh, wow, I go just so. Yeah, I mean I can't give uh northeastern any more uh props than one can, I mean. But I mean we need this, needs to be more schools like that, or more schools, even if they don't want to be like northeastern career exploration classes. And if they don't have them, um, the students either gonna have to go to the local community college and take those remote or whatever. But you have to get involved with it, because it's just tiring and tiring when student goes into.
Speaker 2:I mean, like the premise really of the next book of the angle is student goes into college, okay, and he, he or she 18. I want to be an electrical engineer. Nothing against that profession. They're like great, here's the paperwork, give me $100,000, versus saying, awesome, congratulations, excellent profession. Why do you want to be an electrical engineer? What do you know about electrical engineering? Have you met an electrical engineer? Blah, blah.
Speaker 2:And here's the thing about it. As we talked about earlier, the students that are well-connected from the families, with cash it doesn't matter. They come home with an electrical engineering degree. I'm sure a friend of a friend of a family or a network will get them into a job in banking Done. They'll be like oh yeah, hiya, bob, blah, blah, blah, but a first-generation low-income. They come out with an engineering degree and they're done. If they don't prepare and they don't understand it, because they wasted a lot of time and money and now they're in debt or they have some other issues going on and they're not ready for the real world. And so these are the students that really have to do a little more work and homework, because they have to figure out what is the best opportunity for them after, after high school, college, military or whatever, what are they preparing themselves for and how? And so with schools like northeastern and some of the ones that have a career exploration classes, at least they'll understand what they're getting themselves into.
Speaker 1:So yeah, right, right, the schools that offer the co-ops and and I think that you know and we talked about this a little bit that ability for a first-gen student to networkolve where they are working with companies to talk about transitioning first gen students and mentoring and getting them familiar with the culture as they come in. But that's kind of after the student has thought about their decision, about the why. And I mean, I think the why is crucial anyway to start asking in high school. The first is like why do you want to go to college? Because maybe the career that you're looking at does not require a four-year degree. And so what is the next step then after high school that gets you into the career you want to go into. That really speaks to you, the career you want to go into. That really speaks to you.
Speaker 1:Um, and it may be pollyanna-ish of me, but I always think that if you go into something that you love, that you really enjoy, that you wake up monday and you're like all right, I'm hitting it, then your life is better, uh, and that you tend to be better in that job, and then you get recognition, which then leads to other things, including more money and more opportunity. And if you don't like your job, unless you are really able to sort of compartmentalize and say, well, this is just my job, I'm just doing this, and then you find your joy and your connection outside of work. I think it's so much easier if you have a job you really like maybe not love, but that you like it yeah, that's actually a point that I make too.
Speaker 2:It's called good to great. I go. Do you want to? I go. Do you want to be good at your job? Raise your hand and some do, and then they get all bad. I go. Okay, ready, because you guys get a chance to listen to me, because your school did a great job, I'll get me in here. I want, I want, you all to be great we're going to figure that out to be great, I go.
Speaker 2:I was good at technology sales because I just did what you did. I did just exactly how you said it. I go. I faked my career for the cash, but I want you guys not only to make the cash. I want you to honestly enjoy what you're doing, have an interest in that. I go. Somebody over here might like space exploration or somebody over here might be into archaeology or you know biology or something to that nature. So we got to figure that out and see where you can really crank it, because I mean being the greatest. I would say I go. Maybe you're going to be the greatest cpa in in akron, ohio, and that's and that's respectable.
Speaker 1:Yeah I also think about it.
Speaker 2:You just want to be the best at what you're doing in your. You know your area in the world and so let's try to figure that out. And you know I mean sometimes you're going to, you know you're going to connect it right, and other students are just like oblivious, they just, I know, lost, which is sad to see, but we do see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and you know I like to think that college is the perfect place to do that trial and error, to see where it is again. You know, I mean it's always a lot about the money, and if you're getting financial aid or if you don't have a lot of money, you kind of have to make your decisions fairly quick and you don't get to experiment quite as much, and so if you make a mistake it can cost you, and so you know, I think you know, always, using the resources at the college is one thing that I encourage students to do is find out where the resources are and, like, get in and make friends with all those people so that they can give you some of their knowledge to maybe help you avoid a hurdle or two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the research I'm doing for book two. I'm speaking to all these students around the United States. I basically did it already, so I'm just going to now he's got to clean it up. You know a lot of them in, thank God they're getting a real world information from their professors who actually worked in the real world. That was a big one too. They a lot of them did like the career centers, but they really enjoyed having a one-on-one with the professors who actually worked in that industry and that was awesome to read. So that was one of the snippets that I, when I was doing all the you know like analyzing all the research, I'm like, oh my God, this is great. This is some information I would you know I got to be speaking more about. So that's good information. But you're right, they have to talk to people in the real world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then encouraging you know for us, you know for for you, who are listening for me like encouraging the students and giving them the tools to go talk to the faculty so that they can they can get that information from somebody who's living it right in that minute and who's doing it and teaching it, which I think makes them even better at it. If you can do it and you can teach it, then you really know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah, which is amazing, and it's rare these days too, you know, let's face it. If somebody's running you know a company, x, y or z, they've got you know 10 minutes extra a week to do to do anything you know. So, um, but yeah, you're right if they can go out there or you know, here's. The other thing, too, is with the. With the, because you're in the career world, I always say this is like what's. And some of the students complain about the, the career centers, it. Just, you know, they hire sometimes younger people with not really a lot of experience. It's, it's like it'd be great if they could go up to some of the older people who've got 20 years in a field and say you know what, what? I know you're ready for retirement, but how are 20 hours a week or something like that? You know, make these little you know gestures that go to the alumni. So it's always, it's always interesting how the schools work with the alumni and how they don't work. Pride, you know, but anyways, that's you know.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of schools are really tapping into that alumni group and that alumni experience and I mean there's so many that I'm familiar with have like LinkedIn pages for alumni and then encourage their students to go to that LinkedIn page because right away you have something in common with somebody that you're reaching out to. I went to the same school you graduated from. Can we connect? And I think the other thing for students is to let them know that people are ready and willing to talk to them, right? People get excited like, oh, somebody wants to talk about my career path, right. And students think like, oh, nobody wants to spend time with me. But I think, for both high school and college students, people are really happy to share their path and pitfalls and successes with younger generations.
Speaker 2:Yeah, umass has some first generation group or whatever, and I always inform the students if they ever want to talk. So once in a blue moon you get a call or a message or whatever, and some are actually quite shocking. Like, really, you got a degree from Eisenberg School and you can't find a job. The moment you get a call or a message or whatever, and some are actually quite shocking, you're like, really, you got a degree from Eisenberg School and you can't find a job. Okay, where are the weaknesses? And then you do a call with the person and you find out okay, I know what the weaknesses are, but you just try to. Okay, you got to open it up. You can work in more places in Boston and New York, you know.
Speaker 1:So, but for first gen low income students, you know, because there's that, there's so much and maybe you probably felt this too there's so much pressure on them to not only do well for themselves but to also go and do well for their families.
Speaker 2:That was so I did a year or so ago, probably two years ago, when I first started this process process. I was on a call with that and it was, um, some schools around new england I can't think which ones, like, like lowell and bridgewater, I mean I forget which schools but the students, when they were speaking, that was a big issue for them. They go, the pressure on them was, uh, a lot, um for them because, you're right, the family is like they're giving this person the chance to go out there and get the degree or go to college versus working, and you know, so they better come out strong with it and prepared, and so they have to deal with that a lot. So that is, but again, but then again, again, a little pressure isn't a bad thing sometimes because they have to be pushed. I mean, people have to be pushed outside their comfort zone to a point, but hopefully they do use resources to connect with people. But it was, it was an interesting angling call in my situation was just like just get a degree and and that was it.
Speaker 2:But then again, you know, times have changed a little bit. The fact is, if the students are in school, go out there. Do your best, try to figure out what you're going to do with yourself, and that's all you can do, really. I mean you can't, there's not much more. But you use the resources and they have to understand. They have to go out there and knock on doors. Go to the career centers, talk to this, talk to the professors, talk to the alumni. Go to the alumni events.
Speaker 1:I mean so, yeah, and I think to understand too that the decision that they make when they're 18, deciding on a major, let's say, or when they're 22, going into their first career, is not their life. They can change. You know, they may not be able to change their major, obviously, but you know, when they're 22,. But they can get a master's degree if they find they're really in love with something later, or they can go to that first job and be like you know, this maybe isn't the right path for me. I'm going to pivot and you know they do have that opportunity.
Speaker 1:I think some of the pressure is like this is, this is my career. If I don't get it right, like right now, I have no other way to do anything. So you know, I think some of what we can do is to take to say, yes, you can do the homework, yes, you can find everything out, but sometimes, until you're in it, you may discover like I love what I do, I don't like this company. You pivot right. Or I love the company, but maybe I want to do something different in it because I need to pivot that way and realizing like it's okay to switch around as you go through to try to find your way.
Speaker 2:That's 100% correct. I've met so many people throughout my career who you know. I'll give you an example. I know a guy who's the CEO of a company, a major IT company, and when he went to college, I believe, he did literature, which is fun. So I like what you did right. And he came out and he got in tech and he became an engineer and then he started moving his way up to chief technology officer and I saw recently he was a ceo and I'm like I reached out to him like, oh my god, you'll congratulate.
Speaker 2:I love, love to see when the the good guys make it, but you never know where your career is going to go, uh, and so people have to understand that. It's like you know, even if you make, your decisions are, you know, kind of skewed. When you're younger, you know they change up. The other thing too is I know students that go the brain doesn't fully develop until you're 25. And so that's another thing too is their mind's all over the place as well. So they're putting a lot of pressure on them in 18, 19, and 20 to make these major decisions when they're not mentally ready for it. So you've got to deal with that as well. So there's a lot of angles and things to look at, but I always keep telling them to just, you know, focus, to try to figure out what you enjoy and stick with that. You know those couple of industries. So I mean, you know, and I do talk to students.
Speaker 2:Example one student I talked to. He was a friend from a student I knew at UMass. His friend in Florida goes. He goes hey, I think it was like Josh told me to call you or whatever. And I'm like okay, man, I'll talk to you. What's going on? He goes I'm lost. I go why are you lost? Tell me.
Speaker 2:He goes I got my engineering degree from one of the Florida states, one of the Florida schools, like Florida IU or something like that. And he goes I couldn't find a gig. So I just started selling real estate and I'm like, no way I go. Wow, that's a weird transition. But how do you like it? He goes I like parts of it and I don't like other parts of it. And I'm like, okay, what do you like about it? He goes I like talking to the clients, prospects. I like trying to sell, figure all this stuff out. I don't like the paperwork. I go, nobody does. I go. But here's the thing is I go. You have for years I go. They can explain the engineering part, but they work with the sales reps to go out there and explain the detailed scenarios and I go.
Speaker 2:Sales engineers usually enjoy what they're doing, so he was really focused on trying to find one of those gigs. Last thing I heard he was like he was. He told me he was into speed and I'm like what does that mean? He goes. You know airlines, cars, trains, boats and all that stuff. So now he's working on getting his pilot's license and you know so he's just so I mean. But that's the thing, though he at least he's sticking with an industry he's going into.
Speaker 1:So it's right, yeah, and he called you as someone who could give him some more information about what he was interested in. So he, he, he also did some public speaking right, he put himself out there to talk to you and spoke with you. So, yeah, all the, all the other sort of skills that we talked about, yeah, yeah, I think that's, I think that's really good, well, it's awesome, I mean anytime you're talking to students in schools.
Speaker 2:Whatever I'm all geared up for yeah.
Speaker 1:We've been talking for a while now, so I think I'm going to wrap it up, because we have covered kind of everything and lots of things about careers, and I want any listener who wants to reach out to you, either to find more about your book or how to engage you as a speaker, or just wants to give you a call and find out more. How can they reach you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's three really easy ways to get a hold of me. One would be my website is Careers by the People. So I mean you can just Google me anywhere Careers by the People or Wysocki Careers Easy to find. I'm on LinkedIn Easy to find. I'm the only guy named Wysocki, I think in Maui, so I mean not too difficult. The other thing, too, is I have a YouTube channel with over 100 videos on career readiness at Careers by the People. So you know, if you totally forget everything, just remember my last name Wysocki W-Y-S-O-C-K-I and careers, and you'll be able to find me.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm out there, so anyway you can help out with suggestions and ideas, so feel free. And you can help out with suggestions and ideas, so feel free. And if you want to buy the book, awesome. And if you don't have any money, if you're really tight on cash, always feel free to go to your local library and request it. That's another way too. Yeah, yes, a lot of good things out there, so just feel free to connect. And I got an e-book as well, too.
Speaker 1:All right, and I will put. I will put all those ways to connect with you in the in the show notes too, so you can. If you were driving in the car and couldn't write anything down, you can write that down now.
Speaker 2:Especially colleges, and colleges are looking for speakers. I'm different than everybody else.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you that All right, Well, thank you so much, Mike. I really appreciated you being on the show and and talking with us, and and I hope you enjoy the beautiful weather that you're having in Maui.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. I appreciate your time and your questions, thanks, thank you, jen.
Speaker 1:Thank you for being here with me today and if you want to get in touch with me, you can find me at Jen that's J-E-N. At FirstGenFMcom and at my website is FirstGenFMcom and at my website is firstgenfmcom. I look forward to talking with you again next week and, as always, I love to hear a rating and review and helps other people find the podcast. Thanks so much for today and we'll talk to you next week.