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Writing Smart Girl, a memoir of a first-gen journey: A conversation with author Dr. La'Tonya "LT" Rease Miles
What happens when a first-generation college graduate transforms her experiences into a powerful memoir? Dr. La'Tonya "LT" Rease Miles joins me on FirstGen FM to share how a simple conversation with her daughter Zoe and an inspiring interview with Erica Alfaro sparked the creation of her memoir, "Smart Girl." LT describes how writing allowed her to reflect on pivotal moments and gain deeper insights into her own story. Her narrative unfolds through thematic chapters, capturing the essence of first-gen challenges and triumphs that shaped her journey.
LT shares about reconnecting with influential figures from her past, each playing a crucial role in her self-discovery. From her experiences on the cheerleading team to the guidance of Coach Marsh, LT reveals how these connections challenged her insecurities and helped redefine her understanding of identity and support. With a disciplined writing process that spanned over two years, LT not only tells her story but also pays homage to those around her, highlighting the unique dynamics of first-generation education pathways.
Exciting things are on the horizon with the upcoming launch of the "Smart Girl" podcast in 2025. LT is teaming up with Professor Samantha Pinto to dig deeper into the memoir's themes, promising engaging conversations with insightful guests. As the book prepares for release, LT enthusiastically invites listeners to engage with her on social media, share ideas for podcast topics, and even suggest cities for her upcoming tour. With hopes to visit Boston and dreams of catching a Celtics game, LT is ready to connect with the first-gen community, sparking a vibrant dialogue around the her story and the stories that define us together.
For more about La'Tonya "LT" Rease Miles
https://www.latonyareasemiles.com/about
https://www.linkedin.com/in/latonyareasemiles/
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You can find me at https://www.firstgenfm.com/ and on LinkedIn. My email is jen@firstgenfm.com.
Welcome and welcome back to the First Gen FM podcast, where we high school and college educators strengthen, celebrate and support first-generation college and college-bound students. I'm Jennifer Schoen, your host. Please call me Jen. I'd love it if you could leave a review and a rating for this podcast to help other educators find us. Thank you so much for taking the time to do that. Now let's dive into this week's episode.
Speaker 1:In this episode, we're going to be talking to Dr LaTanya LT Reese-Miles. Lt is a first-generation college graduate and thought leader in higher education around first-generation research and programs. She's the founder of a very active Facebook page empowering first-generation college students, the creator of First Gen and Juice, which is an awesome blog and Instagram page, and she currently works in partnership development at ReUp Education. Now, if you've met LT, you know about her love of first-gen narratives in comics and pop culture, her fondness for the Celtics and her excitement about what we're going to talk about today her new memoir, smart Girl. So let's jump in. I am here with LaTanya Reese Miles LT. To all the cool people and LT, thanks for joining me on the First Gen FM podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you about your book.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited to be here. This is like breaking news you get to break the story, jen, so I'm super excited for this.
Speaker 1:I know People are going to pick up the AP. He's going to be calling me picking up the story. Just love it.
Speaker 2:Put it out there in the universe.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right. But you know, my first question is so did you just wake up and say I'm going to write a memoir? How did you decide to start that?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, Absolutely not. You know it's funny because it's a bit of a cliche, but absolutely true that you know I was. I didn't think of myself as I mean, I think of myself as a writer, but I never thought about writing my own story. You know, I absolutely am like a cheerleader for others and always, always encouraging other people to tell their story. However, my daughter, little Zoe God bless her it was like a metaphorical finger poking me. He's like you really should tell your story. Why aren't you telling your story? Your story's so interesting.
Speaker 2:And I was like no one wants to read about me, right? So I had her voice in the back of my head. But, jen, I would say the tipping point came when I was doing an interview very much like this one with Erica Alfaro, who was a nominee for the Catalyst Awards that I started and her memoir Harvesting Dreams was nominated for Best Memoir, and we were having a really great conversation on Instagram and she said you know, latanya, you should tell the story that you wish you had and that I credit that moment, that conversation, for the that was about two years ago, for the, the, the impetus that really had me. Okay, let me sit down and write this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's fantastic. Shout out to Erica that's right, we'll have to tag her in this so she knows that she's getting some credit here. I love that, I love that and I some credit here. I love that. I love that. And I imagine that sometimes it was a labor of love and sometimes you were. Why am I writing this?
Speaker 2:okay, truthfully, I did not have a moment of why am I writing it? Once I did not. Once I kind of got over, got over that little, got over it right and started writing. It was therapeutic, it was actually fun. Now it was hard work at the same time, because it requires a lot of discipline. We can come back to this, but it was one of the things I did learn about myself and I that was. We can come back to this, but it was one of the things I did learn about myself. But I did not really have a moment, once I sort of got got into the rhythm of it, of doubting it. It was to the point where I was like you know what, even if no one read it, I'm still happy about it.
Speaker 1:So I just kept going yeah, can I ask you this sort of as? As you were writing it, did you find you went chronologically, or did things pop into your head and be like, oh, I remember that?
Speaker 2:no, definitely not chronologically, because, um, more of like the, what you described, more of the, the latter thing. So what I did? So I had an editor, by the way, who was a Genesis shout out to Genesis. She was more like a thought partner, to be honest and she and I sat down and she asked me like, what is this book? You know, because there's different ways of writing a memoir. So for me it was about me telling my origin story. Not all the things I created, not first to go, not the classes I created, it's the things that sort of got me to that point. So I really wanted to stick with how I was feeling in the moment. A lot of the times I'm, you know, pretty young, my first 20 years of living, and so I was pretty much focused on that. And then, okay, now I forgot your question. Oh, the writing.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know how did you like organize yourself.
Speaker 2:So then, knowing that, knowing that right, I had to think of these tentpole moments in my educational journey of like, okay, what was impactful for me? So I had an outline, but I didn't necessarily write it in chronological order. I actually didn't write it in chronological order, they were just whatever felt right was, or when I got something moved me, I like, okay, I gotta, let me write that down. Yeah, well, and then there's a, a chapter I wrote fairly recently. I had to like I had to plug a hole. There was like a, like a, a content gap and I was like, oh, I need something right here. But it's like in the middle of the book. It's going to appear in the middle of the book. So, yeah, it's pretty. It's actually very difficult to write in chronological order.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I well, my brain personally doesn't think like that. I would think of themes, and and then themes and then different things around me would remind me of like, oh, I need to think about that and go back.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's exactly what happened for sure.
Speaker 1:It's. You know, you said something there that made me wonder. As an educator picking education sort of as some of your tentpoles, your educational journey seems like the perfect thing for you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, there's so many, like I said, there's so many ways to write it. You know, I'm like 99% of the way done and looking at the entire thing now. There's so many other pathways and avenues I could have taken, but you know, I chose this one. I'm really happy with it. Yeah, there's, the focus, for sure, is on my school trajectory and I think I just want to let people know who want to know well, how did you start first to go at UCLA? That's another book, that's not this book.
Speaker 1:Well, like you said, this is your origin story.
Speaker 2:This is my origin story. Yes, this is how I got there. That explains my pedagogy, my approach, my philosophy and all that. But I'm very much in the moment, writing as I thought and felt, you know, as a teenager and as a 20 something, and I stick in that mode. I'm not it's not critical essays. I'm not commenting on what I experienced. I'm describing what I experienced and how I felt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And I mean how perfect for that, how perfect is that for you to call it an origin story, given all that you like with the pop culture and the flash and all of that, to have your own origin story?
Speaker 2:That was well. People will see there are a number of different themes, so let me give the English major warning so all of my degrees are in literature folks and so I'm very conscious of illusions and themes, and superheroes is one of them. Mobility is another them, uh, mobility is another, like transportation, mobility, um, and so there's some metaphors in here and most I would say probably most of them are intentional, not unintentional yeah, yeah, I love that, I love that.
Speaker 1:That's. I mean, that's just so much fun to unpack, I think as you would get a big kick out of it. As an English major Yay, you know, I'm all in. I think that sitting down to write a memoir would be just an amazing experience, and what I wonder for you is, sort of as you reflected on your life, to write the pieces and to come up with the tent poles, were there any surprises for you in kind of what you uncovered as you reflected and wrote?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, oh man, I approached this like as a first gen, just like I did anything else, which was like I got to figure this out by myself. Let me not talk to anyone. That was so silly when I think about it. But there was this, this moment it was like been repeated in my life where I felt like I would be cheating if I reached out to someone in my family to or whoever to like um back, check or just check in with them. You know, I was like no, I need to like do this all on my own, which was pretty silly.
Speaker 2:But once I reached out I think it first started with LaShawn, who is a pivotal character in the chapter Top of the Pyramid I reached out to her long, long, long time friend I've known LaShawn since we were 12 years old and told her I was writing this book and sent the chapter to her. I mean, no, before I sent the chat, we were just talking about our experience and it was just so beautiful to not just to reconnect and also hear her perspective, you know, and I think I felt like, if I did it, that I needed to only have my perspective right. Um, and then that led me to follow up with Angie, who was another critical person in that in that chapter. I hadn't talked to Angie in since high school, you know, and I reached out to her on LinkedIn I'm sorry, on, uh, facebook and she gave gave me a really different take on how I felt about cheer. All this time.
Speaker 2:Before I wrote this chapter I was thinking I literally thought I was only picked for the cheerleading team because I was smart.
Speaker 2:And she challenged that Like when I talked to her recently she was like you know, that was you in your head, that was your insecurity, you know. So all that to say, I was still going through first gen thing things and writing it had a very first gen, had a very like solitary approach, moments of imposter syndrome still cropping up and then just slaying those battle, the uh um, slaying those dragons, I should say along the way, um. And I discovered that I actually have a lot of discipline once I got into it's like people say, it's like running, you know, I would get up around the same time and write around the same time when I first started and it took over two years and I just had to develop that muscle like, ok, I'm going to write, I'm going to write for an hour or 30 minutes. I think I started 30 minutes. I'm just going to write and let me tell you, you do that over and, over and over again and you end up with 65000 words, or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing and that makes a lot of sense. Having read that chapter, that talking to Angie gave you kind of more information that helped you see that in some ways you followed in her footsteps in terms of the same path that she took the alternate to the to getting on the first team or whatever the varsity and I did not know those things?
Speaker 2:I did not. She told me more about her story, right, and so I was able to incorporate that, and that's another another. I don't know if that's what makes it unique In some ways. I do think it is that I am telling my first-gen origin story, but I'm also deliberately telling the stories of other people around me, many of whom would have been first-gen to college. Many of them did not go, but that was important, or did not complete one or the other, but that was really important. That I talk about other people too, okay.
Speaker 1:So the chapter that I read was your. I think it was your middle school experience, right, and being a cheerleader and what all that meant, and the football coach who turned out to be quite kind of amazing and impactful. You know you kind of go and impactful. Oh yes, you know you kind of go in expecting a little bit of the stereotype and it sort of starts out that way. But all of a sudden, you know he blossoms too and it's like whoa. But in that time were people talking about first gen. Was that anywhere in your like knowledge base at that point?
Speaker 2:Absolutely not, absolutely not, absolutely not. I mean, you know, this book is also for Gen X, for those of us who are of a certain generation where lots of us were in college but absolutely not using that language, not known even beneficiaries of programs like TRIO and things like that, and still not knowing we were first gen. So no, that language was not. I didn't hear first gen until I was in my doctoral program and someone told me I was first gen. So decades later, but, um, I will say so I went to the same high school, tc Williams. You know there's a movie, remember the titans?
Speaker 2:yes, um but let me tell you that story about coach marsh, I would argue would make a better movie, because imagine this, you know, imagine that the um, the actor who played coach and friday night lights being a coach of the cheerleading team, right?
Speaker 1:yes, yeah, yeah, and not thinking that he knew everything, but relying on these young women, young girls, you know seventh and eighth grade right To to run their own show with his kind of guidance and feedback and to have his football players support and take care of you. I thought one of my favorite lines was about how he would. He would say like oh, that's a good guy, like you can go out with him, but no, he's a knucklehead, you can't play for him. You know, it wasn't like oh, everybody's great, they're all football players. It's like no, there's some knuckleheads. And like no, you can't, you can't take that.
Speaker 2:I you know, I hope. I hope, by putting this out there, someone goes back. I wish I could find Coach Marsh to thank him. I don't know where he is these days, I don't know if he went back to Texas, but he was just in some ways very intimidating and serious figure as I described, with those glasses and his arms folded.
Speaker 1:All the time.
Speaker 2:All the time and his arms folded all the time, all the time. But um, but very kind, um and uh, to be with a group of predominantly black women, you know, um, and here he is, this southern white guy. Um, you know, I guess he would be played by like matthew mcconaughey or something, someone like that, or Kyle Chandler. But yeah, he just kept encouraging me, he encouraged all of us, but he book that would say to me directly that I was smart. Right, it wasn't really about going to college, it was a really more that I was smart. And then it seemed as though the next step would be OK, well, how do smart, smart people go to college? So, how do you get to college? That that's, that's, that's really the key.
Speaker 1:That sounds like the kind of a really good way to go about it, though, like okay, first we'll tell you that you're smart, we're going to really make sure you know that, and people were willing to tell you that and reach out to you about that, and then it was like all right, well, now you know you're smart. Where do you go next? You got to go, I've got that covered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you didn't get that chapter, but that's early on. I talk about that. It's a chapter, it's chapter one called Speaker of the House, and because I am, I mean the language we would use now is me saying, oh, I was a cultural broker in my family and I was the one that was front facing and, you know, open the mail and all that type of stuff. And one of the things I talk about, which I really think is great for educators to reflect on, is that, just as you described, my family told me I was smart Before I went to school. I was told that I was smart and school validated what my family already believed to be true, and so that's. I think that's a really different way of thinking about it. It was like, okay, well, she's smart, so you all need to figure, you know, you all need to do something for her. That was that was. That was my mom's whole approach. It's like she's smart, you all accommodate her.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think that's great because you know, we know that first gen parents don't think they know enough about the educational system, but they know their kids. So if they're there saying, yeah, you're smart, and then I love that. Like hey, hey, you teachers and people, she's smart, like you know which, which may may have made trouble for you, though. Right, I didn't read the elementary school chapters were like, well, she's smart, like let's give her more work or let's pile on, or, you know, let's make sure she's in all the toughest classes possible I do talk about that.
Speaker 2:I do talk about that and how, but how like situational it was. Um, this is where I really focus on the intersection of being a Black and first-gen and working-class student, because there were times I grew up in the DC area so there were times where I went to school in DC and I was with, I was in, a predominantly Black or all-Black school. Was it being to be smart in that context? And then there were times when I was in the suburbs where there were it was like half Black students, half white students, but one of the few Black students in the honors classes. And so you know, I'm in a school where I could see other Black kids in the hallways but they weren't in my classes, right, and so just sort of going in and out of these spaces and how did I navigate and why? Explain why I didn't want to take the AP exam? Right, I was like. I was like it was a white thing. It was literally a white thing Having a student tell me that they were in an AP class, they were reading a book, and some of their fellow Black students said, why case? I think, to be honest, if we like, did some analysis here.
Speaker 2:I think being a cheerleader and being very fluent in sports helped me um, navigate better than like some of my other Black friends did. So I was. I guess it was kind of like a double consciousness, right, I was still down, I was still like of the people. Being a cheerleader like validated me. That's why it's the chapter that I send out, because it was such a pivotal turning point. It showed that you know, to be in my school to be a cheerleader was like whoa, you're a top girl, right, and among black students among black students particularly, I would say in the white community it was other things, right, it was like being on crew or what have you. But I was both. I was. I was revered in the black community and then well-regarded among my white, white friends as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you didn't even want to be a cheerleader.
Speaker 2:I did not want to be a cheerleader. You did not even want to your friend. I was being a supportive friend.
Speaker 1:Right, and there you go off to cheerleading practice. The next thing you know you're an alternate and then you're on the team and and your friend was not.
Speaker 2:And never was, and never was, yeah, yeah. So again it's, I love it. I love the English major and you picking up on some of these themes.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I couldn't. I can't help. It Just can't be helped. So let me ask you and I know we sort of talked about this before I started recording but this is about your first-gen identity, your origin story, and clearly it plays out in different places what may have been like the aha moment for you as you were writing this. That's like I never thought of this really as first gen, but now that I reflect, it's so clear and I know I didn't ask you that ahead of time.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, no, it's fine. Okay, let me talk so for folks. One of the things that kind of frustrates me about first-year narratives, whether it's a movie or a book, is that oftentimes the story ends right as a person gets to college. It was like struggle, struggle, struggle, go through high school. I made it to high, you go through high school. I made it right. I was milestone, I'm done. Yay, the end.
Speaker 2:I was very intentional about focusing on my college and graduate school experience. So how that imposter syndrome continued. Here I am in a PhD program at UCLA, one of the top English departments, and then what were these moments where I it wasn't just imposter syndrome, but even the whole process of deciding where to go and where to apply. It just didn't make. Like we get used to it because we are told this is what you need to do in order to go to a doctoral program. Well, to my grandmother it made no sense. Why did I have to apply to UCLA? Why do I have to apply to a school all the way across the country when there's perfectly good schools right here? Like I could hear her voice? Right, grandma was right, but those are, you know, you enter a new kind of world and really putting myself back into the classroom and remembering when I was embarrassed to ask questions, and so I would just write names down in my notebook so that I didn't look stupid Like who is LaKhan, who is Deirdre, why don't I know these people? You know, why don't I know these people? And so I really focused a lot on my graduate school experience too and how it carried over.
Speaker 2:That's one. And then, for you and all the other English major folks out there, the prologue is called Inches, and it I wrote it pretty late. It describes my fear of escalators, and so that I had as a kid and it is definitely a metaphor. I mean, it was true I was afraid of escalators, but it's also a metaphor of like that moment I don't know if you've ever had that fear of these. Plates are going by and you're standing there. I'm like where do I put my foot? That moment, and so it becomes representative of my journey of I don't know how to move forward.
Speaker 1:I don't know where, how to move forward. Yeah, I can see that. That's a great metaphor. I always worried my shoelace is going to get stuck in there. That's my fear of the escalator. But yeah, I can see that, and not just not even sort of going along, but going up and the you know the different steps to going upwards. I think that's really interesting.
Speaker 2:It's all there. And then there are my cousins who are mostly boys that you know went on there with a lot of confidence and waiting for me and there's people behind me. You know it's. I love, I love that it's. It's not even a full chapter, it's an interlude and that's people can expect that. And in the book too they're like like one of the chapters. The top're like like one of the chap. The top of the pyramid is one of the longer chapters. But then there are these moments where it's just two or three pages and and then so it's like heavy and relief and you know that's like a palate cleanser.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know. It's definitely a mood shifter.
Speaker 1:Mood shifter. All right, we'll go with that Mood shifter, I like that, all right. So all this talk, I think, of a very kind of meta question, which is talking about how you do about origin stories and superheroes and really getting into pop culture. Yeah, and then you're sitting down and writing your origin story crazy, did you like catch yourself saying like, oh wait, like this is I'm I'm doing a trope kind of here. I need to like work myself out of this or I'm not quite being real enough, or this is I'm fitting into this mold and I don't want to you know again.
Speaker 2:Shout out to my editor, genesis. The main thing genesis said to me was this is your book right? And it was so important for her to say that back to me and that it needs to reflect you. So there were actually moments where she told me to lean more into the superhero theme. Yeah, and she was spot on, spot on. She was like hey, consider tying this back to a superhero. And it was general advice. It wasn't like talk about the flash, it was just like I was probably hedging anyway and she was just like just go all in, just just just say it. And I, I think it makes it. Um, there's some moments that are pretty clever and then, um, I don't think you, I don't think people need to like know all the references, but they, they, they're it'll, it'll make sense, right, you're like yes, I'm here, I am trying to be like like the greatest american hero people are familiar with. That I used to love that show.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, like this sort of ordinary, this ordinary person turned superhero is um the kind of story that I like anyway. I mean, it's very common for superheroes, but not true for all of them, right, like, uh, a barry allen in a flash versus tony stark, um and um. And as iron man who comes from a very privileged background, you know, I I guess I tend to fall closer to the ordinary peter parker, barry allen types, and so that's what this is, that's what this does too. So, yeah, I kind of, I kind of lean into it yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:Well, it makes so much sense too, because that's what you love, that's what I love?
Speaker 2:yeah, and it's on the cover. It's in in the Spotify playlist. I start right away with a theme song, a superhero theme song, so it carries all the way through.
Speaker 1:I just went in which, before I was going to ask you what you, I do want to still ask you what you learned about yourself in writing the book. But I do want to mention that Spotify playlist and just the chapter I read. You know I had songs coming to my mind. You know new edition. I'm like, oh, you know, like I'm reading and trying not to go like, but you know all these songs and references. You know I was older when I was remembering them, but really the songs bring back so many memories. Did you play anything from your younger days, in elementary or middle school to kind of help you think about those things? Or did you just be like? You know what I'm writing this? I'm putting together a Spotify playlist and people can listen to it while they're reading.
Speaker 2:No good question. Okay, two things about that, and I talk about this really explicitly. I talk about it in the chapter that you read about my love for billboards and music countdowns.
Speaker 1:Yes, I remember doing the same thing. I'm going to spend my time listening and trying to tape something that I like, because that was the only way to get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just fascinated by them, probably a very I don't know Gen X type of thing, I don't know. And so that part I knew about myself, but especially that particular chapter. I was like, okay, what was I thinking and feeling in seventh grade? And so I started listening to some songs from that era and I just had to put myself in the mindset. I was not. I mean, I had some songs in mind. I think I kind of figured eventually I would do something. But as I was writing, I wasn't. They were a little bit separate projects, I guess I could say.
Speaker 2:I knew, for example, that the song Lose Yourself by Eminem is one of my all-time favorite songs. One of my all-time favorite songs, and there's a moment where he says, mom, I love you, but this trailer's got to go. I cannot grow old in salem's lot, right, and that song just always moved. That part of the song just moves me and so I had to write to that. I was like I need to. I need people to feel what I felt. What were some, what are some things that would make me say that?
Speaker 2:Because, like the first couple of chapters are, you know, they're pretty fun. I talk about my love for Prince. I talk about mom taking me to a Prince concert when I was 12. I talk about being a cheerleader, you know. But I had to get to this place where I talk about these moments, like what? But I had to get to this place where I talk about what was pushing me away. What was pushing me away, and that's where it gets darker and that's where some traumatic things are. I write about that too. So the music is really, really important. It's a multimedia experience. There's the reading of the book and then there's the listening of the songs, and there's a chapter called Billboard 1988 that is told in a series of vignettes and every subsection has a little title and every title is a song that was released in 1988, which was the year I started college. So there's a lot happening. Wow, I love that it's like a puzzle.
Speaker 2:It's like a puzzle.
Speaker 1:You just, you'll just keep unpacking things like oh my gosh yeah, well, and, and it gives you such a sense of feelings and the time and moments to have the music to go along with what you're saying. Yes, that's great. I was going to say at the end of the book do you have, like your Spotify, all your songs listed?
Speaker 2:I should probably put them in there, huh.
Speaker 1:Not that I want you to write anymore, I know right.
Speaker 2:But I do know some people don't have Spotify and so maybe Just an index of all the songs, yeah, I should probably do that.
Speaker 2:My mom's going to kill me she's the one helping me put it all together, but I should probably do it because everyone doesn't have Spotify. I might, I should do that, and I just wanted to say to people not necessarily take all the the titles literally. They're often again uh, elusive, not elusive, like. I'm alluding to some things like um, like, uh, like madonna's like a virgin is on there has nothing to do with sex in the book, but that was what was playing in the background during an important moment there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very cool, very cool. So what did you learn? If you learned anything, I'm just going to assume you did. What are some things you learned about yourself in writing the book?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll reiterate it. I'll reiterate one thing which was just, um, like I said, my ability to just sort of lock in and and um and have, and my discipline really really just sort of kicked in. I know a couple people have said, oh my gosh, you, you wrote it so fast and and all that. But I mean, I wasn't playing around and and not because I anything to prove, I just I just it, just once, once the once the gears kicked in, I was just go, I would, I would just really write. I got to a point where I couldn't stop writing, you know so. So yeah, that that was great. And then I just I guess the other thing. And then I just I guess the other thing.
Speaker 2:I don an entire chapter to one of my older cousins, a woman, a female cousin, and what her experience was like going to college. I didn't even know the story, remember. I described like these tentpole moments. I was like, oh, when did college come up? Right, that was the thing I needed, was like, oh, when did college come up? Right, that was the thing I needed to answer. When did college come up? And it was.
Speaker 2:I remember having a favorite t-shirt, that my, that I got from my cousin that had the name of a school on it, and so I called her up and I was like, hey, tell me about your time at the school, right? I didn't know. She didn't complete, I didn't. There were so many things we're, we're 10 years apart or something like that. And she went off to college and didn't finish, and when she told me her story there were some things she experienced that I also experienced later, you know, and I didn't know that. And so, anyway, I tell her story and I tell the story of some other cousins too, and I just again wanting to show the nuances and complexities of particularly being Black, first gen and working class, and not just share my own story. So there was so many surprises along the way. I'm like what you did, what I had no idea, you know, sometimes some things just aren't talked about in families.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and you're it's kind of your willingness to ask questions and to reach out to people added a lot to you and to other people that brought them out, because you were willing to talk about those things.
Speaker 2:Well, again, I had to get over that whole thing of like writing is a solitary act you do by yourself. So once I got over that and one of the things I'll just say, because it did get kind of emotional, one of the things that was challenging Jen, though, in reaching back out to my good friend, reaching back out to my good good friend Sean, or my cousin William or Lenita, I always knew that that my family really supported me. I just had so much, so much support. But I also know and I heard it in their voice, like when I reached back out, that kind of like it was there's definitely a tension between people being excited for me and people also feeling like they got that I left, or like you know what I mean and so that's something I wrestle with in the book as well is that, in being upheld as the smart one, it also kind of meant that I was built to leave.
Speaker 2:You know, like that that was. That was really hard. It was like you're smart and you gotta go. We don't want you to go, but you gotta go. You know what I mean. That that's a real challenge, I think. First, gens, no matter what generation, race, ethnicity, et cetera many of us experience quite a bit just that great tension of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. Let me close with this question then. I know you have First Gen Juice and the Catalyst Awards and you put all these great books out there for us to read about first gen narratives and hope that we will use those books, you know, as we talk to students or as conversation starters or book clubs or whatever we might do. How do you hope that people like me and everyone who's listening are going to use your book in our work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, many of the things that you describe right, whether it is a book club or a workshop. But I'll say that, in telling my origin story and leaning in to my school experience, I really think this book will resonate with a number of different audiences. Yes, it could be K-through folks still in high school or K-through 12, especially as I describe my own concern about taking AP classes and sort of being in and out of honors classes. I think that's really resonant with folks still in high school and obviously, college students. But hello, graduate school students and professional school students. Trust me, there's many, many pages devoted to what that experience is like and how do you write a dissertation and all that. So I hope folks still in graduate or even considering graduate professional school will pick it up as well.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, being a first-gen professional and staff or folks who are, let's say, in this case, in my age range or consider themselves Gen X, because we often don't see our stories represented. I don't know how Gen X fell through the cracks, but by embracing the music of the times and the pop culture references, I'm also solidifying the Gen X experience too. So you don't have to be a current student to gain something from this book, because I think it will absolutely validate many folks who are right now professionals, often leading programs, developing podcasts, really shaping and influencing the movement from a different perspective, as senior leaders or or administrators. This book is definitely for you because I I did not know it for a really long time and so um. So, yes, I think it would be great for staff trainings, I think it'd be great for employee resource groups for, for example. So those are just a few ways in which people could address it. There's going to be a podcast too, by the way. Thank you for inspiring me.
Speaker 1:All for podcasts? Yay, that's fantastic. And is that going to be based on your book about the themes around your book?
Speaker 2:that going to be based on your book about the themes around your book. So this will be in concert with one of my really good friends, uh, professor samantha pinto. She is a scholar of black feminist theory at ut austin and I told sam and she hasn't even read the the whole book yet. I was like sam, this really is a black feminist text and I think it would be really great to have, you know, bring her lens to the conversation and so it'll be probably more thematic, I guess, and she's got some ideas for guests and things like that. But Smart Girl, the podcast will come out sometime in 2025.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, which is just around the corner which is basically tomorrow. All right, all right, well, let us let me know so I can promote it and get it out there. I so appreciate you coming on and talking about this book. I can't wait for other people to read it, because I'm excited to read it. Because I only read that first chapter. I'm like, wait, it's over, like where are the chapters?
Speaker 1:Down down, down, jen. I need to know how you became a Celtic fan. You teased that, and now I need to know. So I've got to get the book. So when is it coming out? How can people find it? And if people want to reach you, how can they find you?
Speaker 2:Well, pre-sales begin in a matter of days, and anyone will be able to go to, you know, your traditional places like amazon and barnes and noble online. It'll ship, though it won't. You won't get it before the end of the year. It'll ship early next year, but you and I please, please, pre-order though, because pre-ordering is really important. That's how, um, that's how libraries and bookstores know to carry something in stock, and so we're going to do a heavy promotion for the presale, but then folks will be able to actually get it in their hot little hands in early 2025.
Speaker 1:Okay, something to look forward to in the new year.
Speaker 2:I'm excited about that to look forward to in the new year. I'm excited about that. Well, I hope that you are able to come to the December 22nd book launch and then I will be. I'll be, you know, going to different places across the country and talking about the book. So if anyone wants to, wants to invite me, I'd be happy to.
Speaker 1:To talk more. All right, as long as we put you up as close as possible to the TD Garden, you would consider coming to Boston.
Speaker 2:I love Boston.
Speaker 1:Bribe you with the Celtics game, you'll be all set.
Speaker 2:I'll be all set, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So I will put some links in the show notes as well as your website, and I know you have ways for people to contact you on there, so I'll include that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, look for me on Instagram FirstGenandJuice also, dr LT ReSmiles. Either one and yeah, let me know what you think.
Speaker 1:All right. Thank you so much, lt, and so you know how to reach LT. If you want to get in touch with me, you can reach me at Jen, that's J-E-N at firstjenfmcom and I would love to hear your review, your ideas, your thoughts on the book and if there are other books out there that you want me to talk to, authors or topics you want me to cover in the podcast, I'm happy to hear them. So thank you so much for joining me, lt, and for you out there listening. Thank you so much for listening and reviewing and rating the podcast. I really appreciate it. Have a great week and I'll talk to you next week, thank you.