'The Hub' with Michael Allen sponsored by Manpower Richmond
Welcome to "The Hub with Michael Allen," the podcast that dives deep into the stories of community leaders and business owners who are making a difference. Join your host, Michael Allen, as he uncovers the untold narratives, challenges, and triumphs of those shaping their communities.
In each episode, Michael sits down with remarkable individuals who have dedicated their lives to improving their neighborhoods, towns, and cities. These community leaders are passionate, driven, and committed to creating positive change. Whether they are activists, educators, philanthropists, or civic officials, they all share a common goal: to build stronger, more vibrant communities.
"The Hub" also showcases the journeys of business owners who have turned their dreams into reality. From small-scale startups to well-established enterprises, these entrepreneurs share their insights, experiences, and lessons learned along the way. Michael delves into the unique challenges they face, the strategies they employ, and the impact their businesses have on the local economy and society at large.
With engaging conversations and thought-provoking discussions, "The Hub with Michael Allen" provides listeners with valuable takeaways, inspiration, and actionable ideas. Each episode offers a glimpse into the minds and hearts of those who are actively shaping the fabric of their communities, providing a roadmap for listeners who want to make a difference in their own lives and surroundings.
Tune in to "The Hub with Michael Allen" and join the conversation as we explore the stories of community leaders and business owners who are leaving an indelible mark on the world around them. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and empowered to take action. Together, we can create a better tomorrow for everyone.
Sponsored by Manpower Richmond.
'The Hub' with Michael Allen sponsored by Manpower Richmond
Ep. 13 | Inside the Huddle: Eric and Brad VanVleet on Family, Football, and Business with Podcast Host, Michael Allen
Discover how a YMCA program director turned a severe recession into an opportunity for success in our latest episode featuring Eric and Brad VanVleet of VanVleet Insurance. Eric recounts his inspiring journey from starting out at the YMCA to owning his own successful insurance agency, thanks to the invaluable mentorship from community stalwarts. Brad adds depth to the narrative by sharing his early experiences with manual labor, which cultivated his work ethic and appreciation for education. Together, they explore the importance of early job experiences and community connections in shaping one's career.
Ever wondered how football can shape not just a family legacy but also professional paths? Hear firsthand from the VanVleets about their rich history with the sport, including playing football at the University of Dayton. Eric and Brad share heartfelt stories of playing under legendary coaches and the pride of watching Drew, Eric's son, become the starting quarterback at UD. Learn how the discipline, challenges, and lessons from the gridiron have influenced their business acumen and leadership styles, making them formidable in both fields.
Family businesses often come with their own set of dynamics, and the VanVleet Insurance agency is no exception. Listen as Brad discusses the evolving leadership within the family-run business, the importance of mutual respect, and the influence of their athletic backgrounds in fostering a collaborative environment. We also delve into pressing issues like rising insurance premiums and the need for proactive community development in Richmond, Indiana. This episode promises a rich blend of personal stories, professional insights, and community-focused discussions that you won't want to miss.
Michael Allen from Manpower. We are a national brand, yet locally owned franchise. We are familiar with the challenges businesses face. It's tough recruiting and retaining qualified employees. That's why working with Manpower is a smart, cost-effective solution. Our entire focus is talent acquisition. We'll manage your hiring and training and provide ongoing, customized support. Since 1966, we have been your community-invested partner, uniquely positioned to help eliminate the hassles and save you time and money. Let us help contact Manpower today. Hello and welcome to the Hub powered by Manpower of Richmond. I'm your host, michael Allen. Here on the Hub, we interview local businesses, community partners and various special gifts, and our mission here is to share and spotlight unique and untold stories of companies, organizations and people who are making a difference in our community. So today I have with me Eric and Brad VanVleet from VanVleet Insurance.
Speaker 2:Welcome, guys, thanks for having us, thank you.
Speaker 1:Great to be here. So I really appreciate you joining me today and I've known both of you for quite a while now and maybe maybe, eric, you a little bit longer and I was really intrigued about doing this interview because I worked for many years with my dad in business local family business and your business is the same and father and son working together and I just thought it would be really neat to kind of have a conversation and kind of share some of the similarities and what it's like to have a family business but also, you know, work with your father or work with your son, so I was pretty excited about doing that today. Before we get into that, one of the things that I do on this podcast is kind of a tradition is we ask you about your first job, the first job you ever had. So I know it's going back a little bit.
Speaker 3:Can you remember that long ago Dad.
Speaker 2:We're going back pre-electricity, but go ahead, yeah, so do you remember what that was oh?
Speaker 2:yeah, I sure do. In fact it had everything to do with where I'm sitting here today. I got out of Miami University in 1972, and there's a full-blown, very serious recession and you couldn't find a job. And a gentleman that I had gotten to know through the years, dave Blackman, that ran the Richmond YMCA and Dave said I'll hire you as a program director. So I was a poli-sci, major pre-law at Miami, came to Richmond and was a program director at the Y and got to know the finest group of people back in those days in the seventies business people all collected down at the health club Really neat people names, great names in the community and those folks really befriended me and actually pointed me in the direction of owning my own business. Insurance introduced me to my first insurance job and to this day I'm very indebted to those folks for taking an interest in my life as a young man and those were neat times.
Speaker 1:So you're right out of college and get this program directors. Do you remember what you were making then Like $14,000 a year was pitiful.
Speaker 2:I should have been in a food line, but it was a job and, frankly, in 72, that was a very severe recession. It was a lot of people were getting body slammed back then. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Interesting, eric. Do you I mean Brad do you remember your first job, like you know, like I mean even going back to, like high school years or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So you know, dad again always told me the importance of having a job and so I've always had a job, summer jobs, and they were usually manual labor. So I've always had a job, summer jobs, and they were usually manual labor. So I did lawn care and then probably the first like real job for an employer was actually some rally construction. I worked on the concrete crew.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:So that was the summer before I went off to University of Dayton. I worked in, you know, slinging concrete.
Speaker 1:When I look back at jobs like I like that when I had when I was younger, I really kind of looked those in with a lot of endearment. Today, I mean maybe when you were doing them you maybe didn't like it that much, maybe you did, I don't know, but I'm really thankful for opportunities like that. I mean, when you kind of look back, I mean, were you happy that you did some manual labor?
Speaker 3:I'm. I'm very happy I did. I learned so much. I learned that's not what I wanted to do with my life, so I wanted to go to college and get an education and work with my brain and maybe not my back as much, but it was a great experience. I love the hard work. I love, you know, interacting with different people, and lawn care jobs were always great, so I've instilled that, hopefully, in my kids. My children are working, my son's working out at Forest Hills Country Club right now. He's a college student and so that's his summer job Again, meeting great people, and I love the lessons you learn through that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. So both of you are pretty well known in this community and through your business, but probably on real personal levels as well. But I think it'd be good for you know our followers, just to kind of recap. So, like Eric, why don't you just share a little bit about growing up? You know kind of where you were born and where you grew up and just what kind of what brought you to Richmond.
Speaker 2:Actually I was born on the East Coast. My parents were Cornell grads and dad got transferred or took a job out here with Natco National Automatic Tool Company, which no longer exists. So I got here when I was probably 10 years old, went to test middle school, which was a real eye-opening experience. Back then there was a lot of division socially between the haves and the have-nots, so it was a unique world. I used to have to pay kids money to get my gym shoes back and that little experience got me in the weight room at the age of 12. And I've never stopped. I'm still in the weight room three or four nights a week. I still think somebody's going to come take my tennis shoes.
Speaker 2:But after getting through that, I went to the high school because I started weightlifting. Dealing with that adversity, I ended up being a wrestler and on the football team and I was on a mythical state champion football team which then changed the trajectory of my life because I thought I was a football player. So I went to Miami University, was a walk-on. I, bo Schembechler, was my coach. I walked into his office as a recruit and he looked at me and he said you're a little blank, you can't play football here. That upset me so I thought I'd prove to him I could. He was probably right. In the long run I did make the freshman team as a walk on. I did earn a little bit of money, but I got my knee ripped out at the end of my freshman year unholy triad. So my career was over. So now I had to take stock at 18, 19 years old.
Speaker 2:What was I going to do? I obviously was on my way to becoming a professional football player, making millions of dollars, and quickly figured out that wasn't going to happen. So I got, became pretty serious about being a student, actually read books, talked to professors, really got into it. I was a poli-sci major and really enjoyed that and was on schedule to go to law school. But we got into the Vietnam War.
Speaker 2:The war was raging and everybody was going to grad schools to stay out of the draft and I couldn't get in. The closest I could get was a Salmon P Chase night school in Cincinnati and that wasn't looking good. So I ended up taking a job at the YMCA. As I said earlier, that was the only offer I had because 72 was so severe in terms of recession, and then with the great folks that took an interest in me and coached me up. They suggested I get in the insurance business. Bob Broscheid, great names, wonderful people. I'm still very grateful to all of them for taking an interest in a young man that didn't know anything and put me on a trajectory to start my own business.
Speaker 3:You might talk about the first business you started before insurance. Oh, gasoline Alley, yeah Gosh, I'm glad you told me that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I apparently had a pension for always wanting to own my own business. That was like a nightmare, brad. I'm sorry to brought that up. So I read in a magazine about a do-it-yourself car repair shop. I thought it was a brilliant idea. So you could come in and rent a bay for $8 an hour and I'd have all the equipment you could fix your own car. I barely drive a car, let alone fix a car. I missed the whole point about you're supposed to know what you're doing when you start a business. That seemed a little irrelevant. I was in love with the idea so I did that. I set it up in a garage, I had a gentleman help who actually knew things about cars, and we did that for 12 years and I was an absolute, unmitigated failure.
Speaker 1:Twelve years now. I'm sorry. 12 months, Okay, 12 months.
Speaker 2:That went 12 months yeah.
Speaker 1:If you did 12 years, I wouldn't call that a failure.
Speaker 2:Twelve months of unmitigated failure, I think we raised $19 in revenue, closed the business and that started me on my trajectory in insurance.
Speaker 1:Did you learn a little bit about cars, though, in that?
Speaker 2:12 months I did and how little I know, and brad would attest that I apparently learned he's not a car guy.
Speaker 3:No, I don't even wash them, let alone barely drive them?
Speaker 2:I don't, but it was an important lesson in life and you learn a lot from failure, probably more from failure than you do success somewhere in there.
Speaker 1:There, I think you met somebody and you got married, though, didn't you? Oh, my wife. Yeah, I think we need to mention her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we certainly do because she's been the rudder on the boat all these years. We dated in the fifth, sixth and seventh grade. I moved to Richmond, indiana, which caused an interruption in our serious love life. In the fifth grade and we didn't reconnect till my senior year in high school she came to visit my sister and as soon as we did it was game back on and I got married in the middle of my senior year at Miami and been married 52 years, had two great kids with Brad and Shannon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. Well, it's refreshing to know someone that's been married that long and that's a testament Probably more of your wife than you, absolutely, I would agree with that, Brad. How about you?
Speaker 3:So I'm a Richmond guy through and through born and raised, born right here in Richmond, indiana, grew up going to, you know, charles Elementary, tess Middle School.
Speaker 2:Richmond.
Speaker 3:High School, Graduated from Richmond High School went off 45 minutes away to the University of Dayton, so I've never been too far, had a great college experience, playing football, getting a great education. I was a marketing major. It's where I met my wife and I would definitely say she's my better half. Kelly is an amazing person and she was elementary education and came out of school and we graduated and I came right back to Richmond so I'd had internships working for State Farm. My wife was obviously teaching and so we had to make a decision on what to do. So I said you know, I can either work for another company or I can come back and learn from my father, as I thought, learn from the best. So I made that decision.
Speaker 3:I moved back to Richmond and then, quickly, my wife and I got engaged and, within about a year of graduating from college, married and then she made the decision. It's a tough decision because Kelly's from Fishers, Indiana, so Richmond's a little different than what she was experiencing with all the growth and prosperity of Fishers. But I can tell you Kelly really really enjoys Richmond, loves the ability to get involved and be connected to the community. She's really, really gotten in it and feels like she's a part of of Richmond. So, and luckily, I was able to recruit her to join our business, and so Kelly has really been the game changer in our business. She does the marketing, she's our HR director, she does so much, so that's really kind of what fueled the agency.
Speaker 3:So, again, just backtracking, Kel and I decided to move here right out, you know, a year after college and we've raised two kids, and so I guess we're what we call boomerangers, or I'm a boomeranger. I grew up and raised left and made the decision to come back, and I think it's been a great decision for us and our family and we love being here.
Speaker 1:Tell me well. I definitely got to know Kelly, probably the most working with her on the Boys and Girls Club board and I got to know her there and respect her immensely just through her efforts there. How many years did she? I've never talked to her about. How many years did she teach?
Speaker 3:Oh, geez, she was teaching before we had kids. So once we had our second child, so Drew's our oldest and then Brynn, so she probably taught, for she taught for a year in Indianapolis and then probably taught for five or six years at Seton Seton Catholic and loved it. So it's it's kind of neat to see the kids that she taught that are now grown and now they're having kids and getting married. It makes us feel pretty old. So Kelly brings a unique perspective to the insurance industry. She's very structured, very organized, as you would expect as a teacher, and so Dad and I are more big picture. We have these grand ideas, but Kelly can come in and she can actually make sure things happen. And she comes in with a plan, just like a teacher would, and she writes it out and again she brings the structure to Dad and I.
Speaker 1:I can't help but ask you a little bit because I wasn't really in a position, I didn't really follow it. But tell me a little bit about playing football over at UD and I mean what position you played and how it all came about. You going there a little bit.
Speaker 3:So you know we're, I would say, an athletic family. As my dad mentioned, he played football at Miami and so I grew up idolizing him and I wanted to play college football as well. So we were always taught have goals, work really hard to attain them. And so I worked really hard at football and wrestling in high school and my goal and my dream was to play Division I college football. In my mind I was going to get a full ride and didn't quite get a full ride. University of Dayton is Division I but it is a non-scholarship program so I had to pay to go to school. But I wouldn't have traded that experience for anything. Absolutely loved everything about University of Dayton. It is the purest form of football because it is high level and we play great competition and everybody there is there to get an education and they're just passionate about the game. So there's no competition about who's getting more money, who's got the scholarships and in today's world the NIL. That's unheard of really at the University of Dayton. So I loved it.
Speaker 3:I played linebacker. I was a two-way player at Richmond. I was a fullback and a linebacker, loved that experience, had great coaches, great teams, a lot of success on on on Leibold field and, uh, I was lucky enough to to get recruited by uh Dayton and Mike Kelly was the coach there. Mike Kelly is probably, uh, one of the most renowned coaches. He was the winningest active uh coach in college football when he retired. Um, I don't know what his winning percentage was, but it was like 87%. The guy is just absolutely amazing. So Mike Kelly, and then Rick Chamberlain was the defensive coordinator. He later took over the program, but we won our conference just about every year I was there. I got to travel all over the country playing high-level football Again not getting a scholarship to do it, but I always say I learned just as much on the football field as I did in the classroom High character, unbelievable coaches. So I loved it. So what's really cool is my son was able to follow me and he is now playing at the University of Dayton.
Speaker 3:He and I are a little different. I was a linebacker. I always said if there was a wall, my coach told me to run through it. I was going through it. Drew's a quarterback and he looks at that wall and says, well, why would I go through it if I can maybe go over it or around it? And so he thinks a little different. I guess I was the stereotypical meathead and he's more the thinker, and so he's going to be a sophomore and he's right now the starting quarterback at University of Dayton. He's having a very similar experience. The head coach there now is a guy that I played for, so that's really neat. His name is Trevor Andrews, or I played with I shouldn't say played for I played with him at the University of Dayton and now he is the head coach and now he's coaching my son, and Drew was his first recruit. So it's kind of cool full circle. He's at our kitchen table recruiting Drew out of high school and now he's there having a great experience as well.
Speaker 1:It's probably with any position, but you know, playing the quarterback position, don't you think that he's just like man I, I really, really want to play. I mean because you're the leader out there for your team. Oh yeah, and I would think, if you're not getting the experience that on the playing field as a starter, that would really be tough. I would think for that position, probably others too, but being in a leadership role like that seems like it's a lot of pressure, but you just really want it too.
Speaker 3:It is, and that's a unique position, because you can only have one quarterback. You've got a lot of defensive players, a lot of linebackers, a lot of offensive linemen. You typically play with multiple running backs, but for the most part there's one quarterback on a team. So he went in as a true freshman, as I mentioned, had a great experience.
Speaker 3:I got to start four games and now this year looks to be to be the starter, but drew's a quiet leader. He's not the kind of kid that wants all the attention. Uh, he's going to lead by example, and that's one thing that I was always taught and I try to pass that on to him. Um, so he doesn't want to be in the limelight and again, um, he just wants to lead by example I'm sure I might add he'5", 225 pounds and a kid can throw yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sure you guys are excited about getting to see some games this year and I assume you try to go to all of them.
Speaker 3:Oh, we don't miss a game. Yeah, tailgating is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:At that level, you want to be there all the time. Yep, so that's awesome. Let's see that's awesome. Uh, let's see the decision. Well, let's go back a little bit eric about when you started your company. You know, because you just didn't start an insurance company one day, you, I think you're actively involved at a job in insurance and working somewhere else, and so what kind of led you to the point that said hey, I want to have my own business and you know my own Well again it was those gentlemen at the health connection.
Speaker 2:It took an interest in me. They actually laid out a game plan, said learn the business. One of them opened the door for me for a local agency and I worked there probably for six, seven years, learned a business, spent a lot of time in classrooms getting designations because I knew how important that would be. And then at age 31, again following the architecture of these gentlemen that were my mentors, I started Van Fleet Insurance in 1981.
Speaker 1:Van Fleet Insurance in 1981. So when you first opened up the doors, you know how many staff did you have, or was it just you and a desk?
Speaker 2:I started with a lady, Joan Bartle, and I started it together. There's just the two of us and no clients. It's a tough road, a lot of broken glass, because in the insurance business you're dealing with little incremental commissions as revenue, so you have to run around the May poll I'm going to say six, seven, eight years before you substantially make any money. So it's a real hard road to survive for those years and that's. We lived on my wife's salary and she was such a champ to suffer with two kids and a mortgage because we could have qualified for food stamps in the early part of it. And that's really what separates a lot of people from starting agencies. It is brutal not to make any money for years and years and I've commented to several folks, in this age of inflation I don't think we would have lasted two months now, but back then we were living on my wife's $20,000 a year salary with, again, two kids and a mortgage, and seemed to survive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think people realize how tough it is to start a business. And just because you own a business, people, I think, make a lot of assumptions about where you stand financially. You know, I, I remember when I graduated high school in 1982, uh, manpower at that time was my dad and two other people and although he was making what maybe uh qualifiers for student loans would consider a good income, um, we had no, no money for me to go to school. I didn't qualify for aid and but there was no additional income to help me go. So, you know, I went, I went to work right away as a manpower attempt at imperial products, which is now called quonex, and but that was a form of education in and of itself. And so I've, you know, didn't really go full-time to Ball State to like 85, you know.
Speaker 1:But I think all the things I don't think I was mature enough at the time that would have going to college right away would have been good for me anyway, and and I was going part-time, whatever, but but just experiences leading up to that, I think, really helped me down the road. But, brad, you talked a little bit about joining your dad, did you feel like? You know you saw your dad in the insurance business and that seemed lucrative to you. I mean you were interested in that. Was there anything else that was kind of vying for your interest at that time, or was that kind of what you wanted to do?
Speaker 3:Well, the NFL, you know. Of course I thought I was going to go play professional football. I was going to ask you that question, but I wasn't sure I was going to work that in.
Speaker 1:But I mean let's put that on pause a minute. I mean, when you're in college, like that, I mean you've got to be dreaming a little bit. Oh, maybe I can go pro.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course, again, I probably had no business even thinking that, but in your mind when you're a teenager, early 20s, yeah, everybody thinks they're going to be a professional athlete. So, unfortunately, that didn't work out for me. So I had to realize I needed a, or I did realize I needed a real job, had to support myself and I had a significant other in Kelly and I knew we wanted to eventually get married. So, in order to see or I guess the negative side of it without having an insurance license, so I was basically the yard boy. I mowed the lawn at the office, I helped clean up, I painted a lot of stories, sandblasting the old building on South A Street. So I was always around it, I was always in it, I knew it was there, but I didn't really understand what my father did. I just knew he was well respected in the community and he made a living that was able to support our family. So, yeah, after graduating I kind of looked at some different options and I thought you know what? I'm a Richmond guy, I don't want to live in a big city and I wanted to come back and I wanted to learn from him and I wanted to work in the family business, so came back and joined him in 2001.
Speaker 3:And we were at South A Street I think we had seven employees and so kind of humble beginnings and my dad always likes to tell the story started in the in the dirt floor basement of that building on South A and we worked up to the first floor and then we worked up to the second floor and then by the end my wife had joined us and we put her in the attic. So we had to finish the attic and we were literally busting at the seams. We had no more room on that little building on South a and we were starting to see some growth. And again, I think the timing was around, maybe when Kelly came in and I had been there several years and, as dad mentioned, I mean, it takes five years to really learn the business, and so I had been there for five years and starting to get my own momentum and building up my own clients. And so we had an opportunity that a building came to our attention.
Speaker 3:Kind of a funny story, but there was actually a bank on the east side of town and it was First Merchants at the time and we were working with First Merchants on a health savings account and one of the ladies from the bank just happened to mention in a meeting that that building was going to be up for sale, so we weren't going to be able to find her on East Main. She was going to be up on their Chester location. And so Dad and I looked at each other immediately and said well, what are the plans with the building on the east side? And she gave us a name and a number and said we need to contact you know this individual and they'll let you know. And so dad immediately did, called this gentleman and got a price and he just said I'll take it. And so that was that.
Speaker 3:We bought the building. That was gosh 2014, I believe, maybe the end of 2013. I think we bought it in December and by February of 2014, we had already renovated, moved into it and then by 2017, we were putting a 3000 square foot addition on the back of it. So we went from humble beginnings my father working in the dirt floor, the basement on South A Street to 20 years later having seven employees and I think 40 years now from when he started the agency in 1981, we now have 21 employees. We have a whole health division, several personal lines agents, commercial agents specialize in business, personal lines, health, life, really everything insurance.
Speaker 1:And on your website everybody looks so good in those pictures that that you took of everybody that's on your site, everybody looks great on photography is an amazing. Yeah, it looks you all look great there. I was looking at and I was. I was going to ask how many employees you have, because I was just from counting the pictures. I'm just going to say about 16 to 20.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 21 and with an intern. So we have a summer intern helping us out right now.
Speaker 1:So, Eric, when did you decide that it was time to kind of hand over the reins of the leadership to your son?
Speaker 2:You know, symbolically, when we went into the new building in 2013, the largest office I really insisted Brad take that, because symbolically, I think that mentally, I was saying that we're passing the baton. I always believe that each person has their time in the sun, so to speak, and I recognize that I had my time and it was his time. I'm glad I see a lot of business. People struggle with passing that baton on to others kids, spouses and it's really important you do that to continue the business and he and Kelly have done superbly well. As, I use the metaphor, they drive the bus. I'm in the back and that's where I should be. I'm 74 years old. It's their time and they've really grown it. They've done things I could never dream of, so it's been very, very enjoyable. It's been a great journey so it was.
Speaker 1:It was kind of a plan, things like you guys, something you just talked about, or I don't know, call him in the office one day I mean, yeah, it takes time, you know, it's almost the football, thing, the coaching.
Speaker 2:Thing. I think we both said you know, that's how it works in football, it's your turn. You coached up, right? I don't even know if it was probably unspoken, but we both came out of a football background where, hey, it's your turn.
Speaker 3:You earned it. You're the starter, let's go. Yeah, I think we do an agency meeting every month and my dad would always run those meetings and that was kind of the handing of the baton, as he said. You run the meetings. Now this is your turn. You stand up there and that's kind of when things started to change Cause. Then, when you, when you have, when you're forced to take that leadership role and talk to the team and give them direction, it just naturally happens, and so that's when Kelly and I were able to kind of put our spin on things per se and is where we're at today.
Speaker 1:So, eric, it was never really like it's like hey. I've had my run and here you go, son.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just kind of a natural ebb and flow, not really an architectural plan, so to speak but it did work out well because I never there was.
Speaker 3:I didn't ever come in, uh, with everybody looking at me like, oh you know, brad's in charge now. So you know, when I started I was just selling home and auto insurance. I mean, I started from the very bottom. I was literally at one point, kelly and I would come in on the weekends because, again, we were struggling, young family and we'd clean the office to earn some extra cash. So we were very similar, we would do everything, and so I just as over time again I've been doing this for over 20 years, first five years just trying to figure out what I was doing and how to do it Eventually got into commercial insurance and then, as I got into commercial, a little bit of group health insurance and and then we kind of figured, hey, we're getting big enough, we need to actually create divisions, we need to have specialists.
Speaker 3:One person can't do it all. And I think that's when we brought in Kyle Zeidel and Kyle turned, you know, basically transitioned and created a, the whole health division and the benefit division in our office, um, but he was a big piece of that, um. So, yeah, it was. It was a slow process and it. It just took a natural um, natural time and and I think everybody just um it, it just made sense. It just worked again. There was no just one day. This is the way it's going to happen. It just just uh, and I think that's probably a more natural way to handle that. Um, and dad's still involved, comes in every day, so it's not like he left. I would say we, we, we lead together, uh, between kelly, myself and my father and and, like I said, kyle's a big part of that yeah, it's with.
Speaker 1:For me and my dad it just seems like it just kind of like it was uh, it evolved, it evolved, and just one day, all of a sudden, I was doing everything you don't even realize it and then, and then he said, you know, I think, his son, I think we need to officially call you the president of the company now because you know, and and he was always gracious about it and, uh, and he was always gracious about it and that transition was great and very supportive of me. So working together as father and son, I mean, would have been some of the rewards of getting to have that unique relationship. And what could you think of a couple things just to comment on that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean you raise your son and daughter and and brad's easily one of my most valuable possessions, if you will and it's wonderful to be rubbing shoulders with him for 22 years and watch him do well I you get a pride. I'm a pinch myself about every other day when I watch Ian Kelly run the agency the success they've had. It's just a blast. I think very few people have enjoyed that journey and I feel very blessed that I've been able to see him flourish and do so well, and Kelly as well, because he and I are spilled glass of water uh, I couldn't find the front door, but kelly has been fantastic, given a structured direction, strategies underlying tactics, so the chemistry's been terrific and it's a beautiful thing to watch yeah, dad and I have a unique relationship.
Speaker 3:We're very similar and I think understanding each other's personality really helps. Neither one of us have this dominant personality and I would assume you and your father are very similar. You just mesh, you just go. Well, we have the same thoughts, the same feelings and we respect each other and we listen to each other, and so in that regard, it's just easy. It's just. I don't know anything different and it's nice to have a coach there. I can always go into his office and bounce an idea off of him. He's always supportive, always willing to help and encourage, and I love that. He's always willing to let us go in the direction we want to go in, never wants us to change or do something different.
Speaker 2:You know, and I would also say don't you think a lot of that comes up both of us from football, because that's what you're taught as a team player. You surrender to the uh, to the team, the team goal. It's not about me, it's little little, me big, you yep, yeah, and, and we both have bought into that philosophy and I think that served us extremely well in the business world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we don't have big egos and again I think that is because of our athletics. It is about the greater good of the agency. We want to create this machine that is running on its own. It's not about one piece, it's about the whole machine operating. And sometimes you've got to take a little piece and change them in and out and keep it going, but we've the whole machine operating. And sometimes you got to take a little piece and change them in and out and keep it going, but we've. We've built a machine over 40 some years, do you think?
Speaker 1:being in the insurance business relationships, I would I make assumptions here, but I think, probably right that relationships are really huge when it comes to insurance. You know people trusting you and making sure that you know they're being heard and looked out for. And being from this community and growing up in it, do you think that's been an asset that's helped in your business to grow? I'd say it's number one, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Number one. We are a relationship business. Again, we sell an intangible product. We're selling a promise. It's not shiny, it's not fun, you don't get to take it home with you. It's a piece of paper, and so what we sell is us. When you buy an insurance policy from VanVleet Insurance, you're buying Eric Kelly and Brad VanVleet, and so we stand behind that. We're very proud of that. That's why our name's on the building and we want to uphold that respect and reputation in the community. So we're very, very proud of what we've created over 40 years. And you're right, it's relationships.
Speaker 3:We want to get right back to people. Our doors are always open. We take pride in customer service. We do things like customer appreciation events. We had 700 plus people at our office last summer for a party for our clients, just a way for us to say thank you. It's free to them. So those are the types of things again, having somebody like my wife in marketing who can plan it all. Dad and I pretty much just show up. But those, you know, those are the kind of things you don't find in a lot of businesses and we understand that. And again, and that's what you can do in a small town like Richmond, indiana is give back to the clients, be supportive, and we want our people again. We know it's about the people in our agency, so we want high character, we want great people and we can teach them the insurance business, but we want people that are going to look out after other people's best interest.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that insurance is something that most people probably don't like the thought of having to pay for it, no, but they're sure glad they have it when something happens.
Speaker 3:Nobody likes insurance until they need it Right, right.
Speaker 1:And Eric, I remember this. This was quite a few years ago now, but I remember like my mother had part of this tree fall in her home and cause all kinds of interior damage to her home. And I mean you were there at the house, you know, just the same day it happened, just trying to reach out, and you probably don't even remember this, but I mean I remember coming over, because it's kind of a big deal, this tree falling on my mom's house and driving over there and there you were walking around and talking to her and trying to just reassure her that things were going to be okay. So I appreciate that and that's kind of what you want to bring to the table when you're working in a community like this, and I think you guys probably do that very, very well. How do you deal with the insurance side, where you know it seems like the premiums are always going up even faster than inflated inflation At least it feels that way. Do you think that? Is that a true comment or is that a misnomer on my part?
Speaker 2:I would say that we react to the marketplace. We've been late. It's interesting you bring this up because we are part of the national conversation on inflation now, very much so. The homeowners across our entire industry was up 22% this last year. But I think we mirror what's happening with material labor rates et cetera. But we have been late to the party raising it. And boy have we, like I said, become part of the national conversation. And it's tough because we got to spend a lot of time explaining that, because every time somebody opens the mail, their head snaps back with these rate increases. And again, not just us, the entire industry has to deal with this.
Speaker 1:Because I think some people think that you guys are sitting around your conference table thinking, okay, what are we going to change? How much we're going to change for raise the car insurance this year? But you have really you don't, dad, and I have zero influence influence in that whatsoever, but I think that people, don't you think people, oh yeah some, I'm not everyone, but that's probably a little bit of uh yeah, I think you have to work through with people. I think oh you got. Why you guys you?
Speaker 3:know, doing this to me yeah, yeah, they take it personal. Think it's. You know, us, our agency and and you're right, we have no control over it. It's the industry, it's the market. I mean, we are officially in a hard market. It is a tough time out there. Everyone's going to continue to see prices go up.
Speaker 3:Inflation is number one. We have these conversations on a daily basis. Again, it's not a fun topic. We're all sick of hearing about inflation, but it's affecting everywhere the gas station, the grocery store, when you go out for a meal at a restaurant, and also your insurance premiums, and there's also the number of natural disasters that have hit this country are increasing.
Speaker 3:We give the number in 2023, I think the industry anticipated eight catastrophic claims, and a catastrophic claim is defined by a single incident with over a billion dollars paid out, and we've heard somewhere between 20 and 30 catastrophic claims in just one year, in 2023. And you look at Hawaii and the fires and you think of hurricanes hitting the South, and so we all are in this 2023. And you look at Hawaii and the fires and you think of hurricanes hitting the south, and so we all are in this together. And so when things like that happen even though it didn't happen maybe in Richmond, indiana. It hits the industry and we all feel it because of reinsurance, and so the reinsurance costs go up and then the premium goes up for all of us.
Speaker 1:But where you live in the country can have a negative or positive impact on what you pay for insurance. Definitely Look at Florida.
Speaker 3:I think the average homeowner premium in the state of Florida, we heard, is over $6,000 for a homeowner's premium here. It's maybe $1,200 in Indiana and so it is going up. But it's going up everywhere, but it is a percentage of kind of where you're at the weather patterns. And so the Midwest is continuing to get hit with hail and wind. It's unfortunate but we're seeing it, and so insurance companies unfortunately have lost money on the homeowner product, on property insurance. Auto continues to rise due to claims, due to the cost of material parts, labor rise due to claims, due to the cost of material parts, labor.
Speaker 1:So it kind of leads into a couple of one of the couple of questions I want to ask about kind of emerging trends in the industry. Is there any? Is there such a thing? Is there anything that's kind of changing what it used to be and is moving to well?
Speaker 3:definitely this hard market is something that we've never seen. I mean, dad's been doing this for over 40 years, I've been doing it for over 20 years and and we've never seen. I mean, dad's been doing this for over 40 years, I've been doing it for over 20 years and we've never seen a market like this. So this is something we've never experienced, the hardest market we've ever been a part of. Unfortunately, rates are on the rise for everyone, every company, every place. There's no avoiding it. So, again, not a fun topic, but we're going to continue to see it. So that's probably the number one thing to anticipate is just rising costs from the insurance carriers.
Speaker 2:We spend a lot of time counseling with clients talking about incurring larger deductibles, taking more risk to keep your costs down, and that seems to be working for some if they're willing to do that. But you look at where the nation is. I remember this statistic 60% of Americans don't have $1,000 in their savings account. So that can be a tough sale to some folks because they don't have the residual money to pay for a larger deductible. But we have to have those conversations with folks.
Speaker 1:So what should? Is there anything specifically that I should be thinking about this year or next year regarding my insurance needs? Is there something that that I can be doing to kind of get out in front of it, in front of the issues?
Speaker 3:Yeah, having conversations. So again, that's what we sell is that we are a local agency and we want to be risk managers. So we don't want to sell you a product, we want to be there for you. We want to talk to our clients. We want to help them work through this hard market and find solutions. You know, that's the different with working with Geico you're going to not have the same representative when you call and you can't maybe get those questions answered, and so you can literally walk into our office, schedule an appointment, give us a phone, phone call and we're going to, we're going to talk to you. So that's that's. Number one is talk to your agent, have a conversation, you know, figure out a way that you can manage your risk, which may be taking a higher deductible that someone else may not be able to do. So everyone is different in that and we just want to be there to help you, educate you and advise you moving forward.
Speaker 1:What about career opportunities within the industry? Are they strong, are they I mean?
Speaker 2:is it a?
Speaker 1:good field for someone to go into today. I mean, if they're trying to think about, you, know what kind of job they want to do, but they're out of college.
Speaker 2:It's still interesting. It's always been referred to as the backdoor profession. Who goes in the front door wishing to be an insurance agent, and I wasn't. I was a backdoor entrant, but I think Brad would agree it's a really cool profession. I enjoy people. You got to have good people skills. You got to know how to read a room, great communication skills and it's got a lot of depth and breadth as far as the intellectual part. Knowing these contracts and the promises, you can have a PhD in insurance and we go to seminars with very sophisticated topics talking about commercial insurance, general liability. We had a major fire in this town, a tradeway fire that affected a lot of people and resulted in tons of litigation. So it can get very complicated but it's a very cool profession. I recommend it to anybody that likes people, that has good communication skills. You got to hard work. It's not a get rich quick scheme that you're doing right out of the gate. It takes a long time. It's got a long incubation period, but but not everybody is a producer, the one or an agent.
Speaker 3:I mean there's so many different areas in the insurance industry. If you want to be an adjuster or an underwriter or an actuary, you know there are tons of opportunities. Insurance companies are all searching for help right now, again in those in those fields, from underwriting so they're usually working behind the desk working with agents like ourself to an adjuster who's out, you know, writing checks on these claims. So it's a great industry, tons and tons of opportunity. I wish more young people would, would be interested in it, because this is a field that's continuing to grow. I just think when you say the word insurance, sometimes it's a dirty word or it doesn't have the sex appeal of some other type of IT positions. But again, you can do just about anything under that insurance umbrella.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, I mean, at some point in time someone's going to be in some type of a car accident or they're going to have some type of catastrophic thing that happens at their home, or they're going to have a health event where they're glad that they have a good plan that just helped to relieve some of the stress of that. I mean, you're already going through something stressful and then worrying about how it's all going to be managed and taken care of. That's where you guys can come in and really kind of help alleviate some of the anxiety and some of the frustration. When those things happen. There's still going to be some things out of all of our control, but to be there for people and have empathy for them, I'm sure that's a big part of it.
Speaker 2:It is Coaching, nursing, supporting people. It's all wrapped up.
Speaker 1:So both of you have decided. You're invested in this community. You live here and say that most of your business is from this region. You know, this community still struggles with challenges, which sometimes really baffles me. I see some things that I'm incredibly encouraged and I see other things and I'm thinking why it has to be that way. I mean, what are your guys' thoughts about that? What are some of the things that are maybe concerning you about the community, some of the things that you see as some positive things happening on the horizon? I mean, since you both live here and you're you know I mean Brad, you spent your whole life here outside of college or whatever I mean.
Speaker 1:what are your guys' thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:One theme I really like the work that Dr Hicks from Ball State has a PhD and he's done a study on Rust Belt cities and I think he's done some excellent work and it's there's a theme there of depopulation. He, as Dr Hicks says you can overcome a lot of things, but you it's very difficult to overcome depopulation. So I would like to see a conversation in our community about how we can stall that, stop it, interrupt it, because it has major ramifications to our tax base, our school system, our image, our housing. It affects almost everything and I don't know if people realize that that is maybe the top of the mountain as far as our challenges. And I'd like to begin a conversation.
Speaker 2:I'm actually setting some things in motion with some community leaders now to discuss how we can deal with depopulation. Let's make that part of our conversation, because the baby boomers, of which I'm one we're about 22% of the statistical cohort here in Richmond and we're leaving the scene and we're also the richest generation to come along. So you're going to see an accelerated depopulation in a particular group that you don't want to lose because they have the money, they write the checks. So we need to get out ahead of that we need to talk about that conversation. I'd like to see us have more of a D-Day type of view of our challenge. It's a great community. It's got a lot of great raw material, but I think it's go time. We can't be sitting on our hands right now. This is a time to move ahead.
Speaker 3:What's your thoughts? I would agree, Obviously, we made the decision to come back here. Love Richmond, love the small community, love everything it offers. To be able to get involved and be a part, be in the social fabric of Richmond, Indiana, I think, is really neat. I agree, though, we have to stop looking in the rearview mirror. We got to start looking in the out, the front windshield, and we got to start thinking about the future.
Speaker 3:So I would just challenge our community that we have to continue to grow, and we say the same thing in our business if you're not growing, you're dying. And so we've got to figure out a way to better ourselves as a community, to find growth opportunities, to take advantage of that, Because, again, we do it in our business every day and we have to do it in Richmond or we're going to continue to shrink and die. So we need to again be positive. We have a lot, Richmond has a lot to offer, and so I think sometimes we're our own worst critics of our community, but there's a lot of positives and we need to focus on those things and then, hopefully.
Speaker 3:So I think sometimes we're our own worst critics of our community, but there's a lot of positives and we need to focus on those things and then hopefully you know I was really involved in the young professional group and the brain drain obviously is trying to get young people to come back to this community. Housing obviously is a hot topic right now, but there also has to be jobs for people to work and so we have some great employers at Reed and Belden and Richmond Community Schools I think are our three largest employers, and so we need those people to not only work here but live here, and I think that's a struggle because I think, if you looked at the percentages, a large percentage of those employees are driving outside of Richmond after 5 pm.
Speaker 1:I mean, there are companies making investments. There's two I'm I'm just I don't want to forget somebody, I'm probably am, but I know like Anchor Ingredients and Liberation Labs. There have facilities that are under construction and coming close to being completed and they're going to be employing people. You know, I I work with a lot of different companies in this community, as you do, and, um, I do think housing is an issue, because it seems like there's a lot of people that work at these companies that do not live here, especially those that we their upper management professional positions. They choose to drive here every day instead of live here, and so maybe it's part of the community itself, maybe it's having somewhere to live.
Speaker 1:I just spoke to one gentleman at the chamber event that we were both at recently and he is in a new company and he's struggling to find a home and this you know. He wants to bring him and his wife and his three children here, but he's having trouble, um, you know, finding somewhere to live, a house. I spoke to a young man at my church who went to high school with my boys and he recently was married a year ago and they want to come back to richmond and live struggling to find a home. I mean, that's not the only issue, but it's just ironic that some of the people I've talked to recently are having trouble finding places to live. So, and you can't just put a house somewhere tomorrow, you know. So I would love to see a more aggressive move toward some development in that area and and I just I'm not I could be a little bit uninformed in that part, but I don't I don't see a lot of it happening right now you know, that's why I love the theme.
Speaker 2:We need a strategy in the community and that's why I come back to depopulation, because that fits right into the housing, it fits into the tax base, it fits into the shrinking school system. We're a community that has a poverty rate of 21%. We have double the national average poverty rate. We have one of the lowest per capita incomes in the state of Indiana. That all changes if we can work on that theme of growing the community or at least stabilizing it.
Speaker 2:But we're projected to keep losing population and the three of us know the people you're losing are the ones you don't want to lose. They're the financially mobile and social and they can afford to live in these outlying communities and drive in. We lose so much for this community when people make a decision to live outside the city limits. So again, I'd like to create that conversation, that D-Day concept in our community about what we need to do. So we're all on the same page, because we know we recently had an event with the housing that surprised all of us when it didn't pass right, and I think that's because we're not all on the same page and we need to work on that yeah, I would.
Speaker 1:I would have thought that something like that before it comes to a vote. You already know it's passed. They should already have that's everything has been worked out behind the scenes that you know that this is going to all the support behind it.
Speaker 2:It it went down by a larger margin than I ever imagined. I was totally shocked, yeah yeah, yeah, I, I uh.
Speaker 1:I admittedly was not as informed on the whole project as I wished I was, but it was. You know, living out in the fringe of Richmond, sometimes I don't follow some of those things as well, as far as things like housing and what's going on in the school system, especially since my kids are grown and gone and have kids of their own now. So that part, sometimes I get a little disconnect, but it's hard to keep track of everything, though, isn't it, it sure is.
Speaker 1:I mean you know you want to be involved in all these things, but you've got your business to run and you have family and you want to go to your son's football game. I mean, life balance is tough.
Speaker 3:It is tough. I just am one again. I don't know all the details of that either, but if I can support anything that brings growth and prosperity and opportunity to the community, I'm all for it. So that's all I needed to see. It's an opportunity for more people to live in Richmond, indiana. Let's support it 100%. Let's figure out a way to make this work Right. Absolutely. Let's support it a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Let's figure out a way to make this work Right. Absolutely Well, fellas, I really appreciate you sitting down with me today. I've enjoyed talking to both of you. Is there anything that you wanted to share before we kind of sign?
Speaker 2:off. I just share that. We're all gym rats and we've all seen each other in the gym. So, this was like a locker room discussion. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:It was a lot of fun, very comfortable. I appreciate both of you and the investment you've made in our community and you represent our community very well. Thank you, michael Allen from Manpower. We are a national brand, yet locally owned franchise. We are familiar with the challenges businesses face. It's tough recruiting and retaining qualified employees. That's why working with Manpower is a smart, cost-effective solution. Our entire focus is talent acquisition. We'll manage your hiring and training and provide ongoing, customized support. Since 1966, we have been your community-invested partner, uniquely positioned to help eliminate the hassles and save you time and money. Let us help. Contact Manpower today.