'The Hub' with Michael Allen sponsored by Manpower Richmond
Welcome to "The Hub with Michael Allen," the podcast that dives deep into the stories of community leaders and business owners who are making a difference. Join your host, Michael Allen, as he uncovers the untold narratives, challenges, and triumphs of those shaping their communities.
In each episode, Michael sits down with remarkable individuals who have dedicated their lives to improving their neighborhoods, towns, and cities. These community leaders are passionate, driven, and committed to creating positive change. Whether they are activists, educators, philanthropists, or civic officials, they all share a common goal: to build stronger, more vibrant communities.
"The Hub" also showcases the journeys of business owners who have turned their dreams into reality. From small-scale startups to well-established enterprises, these entrepreneurs share their insights, experiences, and lessons learned along the way. Michael delves into the unique challenges they face, the strategies they employ, and the impact their businesses have on the local economy and society at large.
With engaging conversations and thought-provoking discussions, "The Hub with Michael Allen" provides listeners with valuable takeaways, inspiration, and actionable ideas. Each episode offers a glimpse into the minds and hearts of those who are actively shaping the fabric of their communities, providing a roadmap for listeners who want to make a difference in their own lives and surroundings.
Tune in to "The Hub with Michael Allen" and join the conversation as we explore the stories of community leaders and business owners who are leaving an indelible mark on the world around them. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and empowered to take action. Together, we can create a better tomorrow for everyone.
Sponsored by Manpower Richmond.
'The Hub' with Michael Allen sponsored by Manpower Richmond
Ep. 14 | Skip Runnels: From Richmond Roots to the Indiana Golf Hall of Fame with Michael Allen on The Hub
Skip Runnels takes us down memory lane, sharing his journey from a young boy working for his grandfather to becoming a celebrated figure in the Indiana Golf Hall of Fame. Skip opens up about his roots in Richmond, where growing up in the vibrant neighborhood of Spring Grove Heights with four sisters shaped his adventurous spirit. We delve into his family's remarkable history, particularly his father's distinguished military career, and how these early experiences and influences kindled Skip's lifelong passion for golf.
Our conversation shifts to Skip's career trajectory, as we explore the economic challenges he faced and his hands-on experience delivering school buses across the country during college. From these humble beginnings, Skip's dedication and skill paved the way for his 2015 induction into the Indiana Golf Hall of Fame. We reflect on his numerous achievements and the cherished friendships forged through golf, painting a vivid picture of the highs and lows of balancing a career in both business and sports.
Listeners will also get an insider's view of Skip's role within the Indiana Golf Association, from strategic decisions to memorable encounters with golf legends like Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus. We discuss the efforts to make golf more inclusive and the association's post-COVID-19 revival. The episode wraps up with heartfelt stories and reflections, celebrating the camaraderie and countless joys golf has brought into Skip's life. Join us for an episode filled with inspiration, nostalgia, and a deep love for the game of golf.
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Speaker 1:Hello and welcome to the Hub powered by Manpower of Richmond, portland and Newcastle. I'm your host, michael Allen, and here on the Hub, we interview local businesses, community partners and various special guests, and our mission is just to share a spotlight, unique and untold stories of companies and organizations and people who are making a difference in our community and today. If you've lived in this community any length of time, you've probably heard the name of today's guest, especially if you play golf or know anything about golf. Our guest today is skip runnels, and he's arguably one of russman's most accomplished amateur athletes. Uh, he's a 2015 inductee into the indiana golf hall of fame and winner of many amateur tournaments around the state of indiana, as well as tournaments in the continental US. Skip, welcome to the Hub. Hi Mike, how are you Good? Good, so happy to have you here today. I've known you for many years, probably intimately for about 30. I've had the pleasure of playing several rounds of golf with you. My guess is probably easily over 100 times.
Speaker 2:I would guess so would.
Speaker 1:Yes, I would think and I know for sure we've played together in indiana, michigan ohio, north carolina and florida so I know that's correct played in five states together and, uh, we've got so much that we can talk about, uh. But before we get to that, uh, I want to start with our tradition here at the Hub, and that's where we ask every guest what their very first job was. So do you remember what that was?
Speaker 2:I think, Mike, when I was a little kid, my grandfather owned a business here in town and on the weekends I would clean his office Empty trash cans, sweep and things like that so I think I probably made about a dime an episode, and I think that was my first one, Do you?
Speaker 1:remember the job that you had where you had to, where actually they cut you a check and had to have taxes cut out of it? Do you remember?
Speaker 2:probably. Uh, I worked at the elks country club when they had made the switch from the old elks out on elks country club road to its new location and I worked there with some of my friends who were in high school and that was probably my first actual where I punched a clock and got a check.
Speaker 1:So were you like what they used to call the back boys, or did you go out helping on the golf course?
Speaker 2:I worked out on the golf course. Okay, yeah, all right, mowed greens and things like that.
Speaker 1:So that would have been I don't know in the 60s early 70s, probably 66, 67.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the 60s early 70s, probably 66, 67.
Speaker 1:yeah, the course was pretty, pretty immature at that point. Fairly new, yes yeah so you know, you and I just recently played in um a tournament out there a few weeks ago, and it's probably amazing to look at it like today and then have recall of what it was like when it was new.
Speaker 2:It's come a long, long way. It's a great club. It's strong and doing well, and I don't know if my little bit out there helped at all or not, but that was my first job.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. You've been well-known in the community most of your life. Arguably, golf is probably a major reason how people have met you, maybe heard of you. But part of what I want to focus on is you know some of the personal stuff, so you know. I guess to begin with, maybe share with our followers a little bit about yourself, like growing up, your family, those kind of things.
Speaker 2:Well, I was born here in Richmond and have always been a native of the area. My family grew up on Spring Grove Heights, which was up by the old hospital. I had four sisters and it was a great place to grow up. Lots of other kids played a lot outside, not in front of a TV or a computer, and a lot of fond memories.
Speaker 1:So your parents, Carl and Mary Lou, right? And so tell me a little bit just about each of your parents, kind of about them, and maybe something that might be unique about each of them well.
Speaker 2:My father grew up in richmond as well and was an accomplished athlete and received a scholarship to play basketball at indiana state university, but world war ii interrupted that. My mother grew up over in the Terre Haute area where Indiana State was located, and after the war he came back to finish school and that's where he met my mother and they got married. But then the Korean War intercepted again. But after that they did move back to Richmond together and my dad went to work for his father at Reynolds Builders Products.
Speaker 1:Together. I mean, how long was your father in the military?
Speaker 2:Probably six, seven years.
Speaker 1:And did he ever talk much about that or discuss what his responsibilities were, or whatever?
Speaker 2:He did not talk a lot about it. He was a naval fighter pilot in World War II. After the war remained in the reserves but through an acquaintance in the Navy he had the opportunity to switch forces in the navy. He had the opportunity to switch forces so he ended his commission with the navy and enlisted with the united states air force as a fighter pilot and was given the position as the operations officer for the florida air national guard and during that job their squadron was called up for active duty in Korea.
Speaker 1:I mean that's to become I would think to become have that position as a fighter pilot. I mean, not everybody does that. I mean you have to have a certain amount of skill level and just, I guess, certain characteristics as a person to be able to even do that I think they are a special breed.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure why his ambitions led him that direction, but he loved to fly but rarely talked about any of his uh, actual combat right I don't think that's totally uncommon about, um, men and women who have been in those situations that you know, because they can be very challenging and tough situations and some things are just kind of better left back in the memory banks, right, um, uh, not that it's a bad thing to talk those things through, but it's probably not uncommon for a lot of those folks to be in that position. Uh, did he continue to fly after that?
Speaker 2:not really keep a license. He. He kept his license for a while, um, but I think some of the situations he incurred just maybe was an underlying decision not to be involved anymore.
Speaker 1:So how about a little bit about Mary Lou?
Speaker 2:She grew up. She was born in Illinois but grew up in a very small town south of Terre Haute called Farmersburg. South of Terre Haute called Farmersburg. She was a great student and received a full ride to Indiana University for academics, but back in that day I guess it wasn't really all that important and she decided to go to work instead and actually was a secretary to Tony Hallman at the Hallman Companies and Tony, if you'll recall, was the owner of the Indianapolis 500.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting that connection. So your parents met in Terre Haute never met. So did your mother, you know, had a, I consider, a fairly large family. Five kids is a handful. I would think so did your mom. Was your mom mainly at you know she work at home with you and your sisters, or was that, or did she she?
Speaker 2:was a stay at home mom and it was a full time position.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure I mean just caring after you, yeah, so where do you fall in the birth order with you and your sisters? Was a stay-at-home mom and it was a full-time position. Yeah, I'm sure I mean just carrying after you, yeah, so where do you fall in the birth order with you and your sisters?
Speaker 2:well, I'm number two, okay. My oldest sister, debbie, is deceased, uh, but I do have three, uh siblings still in the area. Um, my next in line would be my sister Leslie, and then Tammy and then Barbara, okay.
Speaker 1:So what was it like having four sisters?
Speaker 2:I mean it, I mean being the only son, and Well, of course I thought it was horrible, but as I got a little bit older I realized how uh uh lucky I had been, and I was probably spoiled and just didn't realize it at the time.
Speaker 1:Probably been worse if you were number five. Probably being the second oldest, that probably helped. So you mentioned Spring Grove Heights. I have some memories of that too, because my grandparents lived up there.
Speaker 2:I know that.
Speaker 1:And I just always loved going up there.
Speaker 2:It's just such a special, unique neighborhood it was really cool, um, I remember your grandmother and grandfather. I remember your mother, uh, but there were a lot of kids to play with. We had a great woods or a forest that kind of encapsulated one of the sides of the neighborhood. We had a river, which we weren't supposed to play at, but of course we always did. It was great adventures down there and, as far as a kid who aspired eventually to play golf, it was an incredible neighborhood because at the time, uh, bill mcclure, leo brook, scott porter, were all living up there at the same time. I was, and they were all city amateur winners and at the top of the game in richmond. So what a place for me to learn how to play, along with my father, who was a very accomplished player as well.
Speaker 1:And it was kind of an interesting. There was a little bit of a gap in the age of all you guys too, Wasn't there?
Speaker 2:Well, leo and Bill were, would have been like my father's age where Scott Porter, who just recently passed away In fact I'm the only one left of that foursome. He was seven years older than I was. Did you play golf with those guys at all?
Speaker 1:like Leo, I did.
Speaker 2:And you know, back in those days, kids learned how to play by caddying, and I was able to caddy for all of them, including Scott, and that's how you learn to play by watching what they did. And then, after your round as a caddy, you'd go out and try to imitate or emulate what you had just watched.
Speaker 1:yeah, it's interesting, you know, because, like scott was several years older than you and it seemed probably when you're younger that seemed like a huge gap, but then later, when you guys got older, it's funny how the gaps almost become non-existent right now.
Speaker 1:So, uh, but yeah, that's, that is really cool. I wasn't there also up there a place where and I kind of picture my mind it's like the back side of spring grove where there was a railroad tracks and there was almost an elevated it was was off the ground and you could walk on it and it was a little scary yeah.
Speaker 1:I remember doing it as a kid and you know I'm sorry, mom and Dad, if you're, you know, but I lived. But it's just I remember walking on that and it probably is not very high today for you to go back there, but it seemed kind of scary to walk on this track.
Speaker 2:It was very scary and, like you, I wasn't supposed to be there, but of course we were.
Speaker 1:in fact, today that trestle is still there but it's part of the cardinal greenway now okay, so it's quite safe, but it's still pretty high. Yeah, I've never been on the greenway much and never through that part, to kind of recall what that used to be yeah, yeah. So, anyway, that's such a great um, a great area. So I guess, moving on to school, um, in the Richmond school system, I mean back when you were in school, what were kind of, what were the schools that you ended up going to?
Speaker 2:Well, a lot of your people won't remember this, but I started off at Baxter in kindergarten and then from there I went to highland school, which is no longer there. There is a portion of it, the newer portion, which is still standing. It's behind frickers. But the actual schoolhouse I went to uh is where frickers is currently located. From there to pleasant view, which is no longer in existence. The building is still out there and then from there Richmond High School.
Speaker 1:I remember especially Highland and also Pleasant View, and those are probably I mean when I hear people speak of going especially to Pleasant. View maybe fond memories of going. It's kind of out in the country.
Speaker 2:It was.
Speaker 1:It was a nice little school to go to.
Speaker 2:It was a great school to go to.
Speaker 1:yeah, after high school you ended up going to ball state right I did.
Speaker 2:I had somewhat of a pretty good career playing golf in high school and because of that I was being recruited by some of the division one schools in the tri-state area. I guess maybe even a little further, but it boiled down. My choice boiled down to either eastern Kentucky, which was in Richmond Kentucky, or Ball State, and at that particular time my girlfriend, who is now my wife, had decided to go to Ball State. So that was somewhat of the reason why I went that direction what?
Speaker 1:what was? I wonder what recruiting was like back in the 70s, when you went, when you were being recruited, how that compares to like today. Well, maybe it's the same I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's completely different. Uh, there are so many more opportunities for kids to play in events, which then allows college coaches to be able to track them as they're playing in high school, whereas when I was a kid, there might have been only one tournament a year that you played in, so you had to actually put together a presentation for yourself.
Speaker 2:Letters of recommendation your academics what you've accomplished playing golf, things such as that and compile this presentation and send those out to college coaches and if there were any interest then from what they got they would contact you normally your parents, not you and make arrangements to have some sort of visit.
Speaker 1:And so ended up at Ball State, Enjoyed that experience. It was a great experience.
Speaker 2:I got to play there for four years. We were the first team athletic team at Ball State to win a MAAC title, and that was during my senior year. We played at Kent State, so the memories were very good yeah.
Speaker 1:Probably go back to that, maybe a little bit, but I did want to come back about family again because I mean you're associated tremendously with golf and a lot of accomplishments which anytime I've ever been around you you're very humble about. But you did pretty good in the wife and the kids department.
Speaker 2:Oh, I hit an A-plus there. My wife, like I had mentioned earlier, was from the area. She was a Westside girl, so I had not met her until I got to high school. But we met during our junior year in an English class and began to date and 50-some years later we're still together. We've been married for 46. So did very, very well there and we currently have three children who are also doing well.
Speaker 2:My oldest, casey, uh, graduated from indiana university, which they all did, but after that she got her doctorate in iowa. Uh, to be a chiropractor. She's a local chiropractor here in town and doing well. My next daughter, age-wise Jessica, lives in the community as well. She is an administrator down at Chubb Insurance, which used to be ACE, which used to be INA. She has a team of people that she's responsible for and she and her husband live here in town doing well. And then my son, who is also a graduate of Bloomington, the Kelly School of Business, which is a renowned school, was recruited right from there by a former graduate of the Kelly School who was running Whirlpool, and he was recruited right out of school to go there, then made a switch to Delta, delta Faucets and now has made another career switch and is building his own business as a financial wealth builder. Consultant.
Speaker 1:And each of your kids have two kids. That gives you six grandchildren, right.
Speaker 2:Six grandchildren, the oldest being four years old and two of them just turned four. So there are a handful, and two of them live right behind us. Jessica and her husband live 75 yards from our house, so we get to see them a lot. Casey's kids are five minutes away, so we get to see them as well. Now Carl, who lives in Indianapolis not quite as often, but we do a lot of FaceTiming and probably see him at least a couple times a month.
Speaker 1:So what do they call you? And Terry, it used to be Grandma and Grandpa, but then somewhere it changed and now there's like 20 different names to call.
Speaker 2:I know I'm Papa and my wife, whose name is Terry. They just call her T, Okay, yeah, my kids call me Papa and I like it. I like it. Okay, my grandkids do they have my kids call me.
Speaker 1:Papa and I like it. I like it. Okay, my kids do Uh. So, moving on to like your business career uh, you mentioned uh at family business and we had spoke, spoken before and you mentioned that initially you came back and you were involved in runnels, building products, and you did that. For how long did you do that?
Speaker 2:I did that for a number of years and I know you recall the timing of this, but there was a recession during the early to mid 80s and there were five families living out of Reynolds Builders Products and it was just determined by my father and by my cousin's father, who was also working there, that it might be best for us to try to find different employment, just from an economic standpoint, because the business just wasn't there at the time to take care of so many people. And from there then I secured a position out at the Wayne Corporation, the bus manufacturer, and worked there for a number of years and unfortunately that business is no longer around as well and then got involved in real estate business with First Richmond Realtors here in town and then also purchased a couple of local coin-operated laundries that my wife and I operated for a little over 20-some years.
Speaker 1:I remember those for sure, the you know. Going back to Ronald's building products, I mean, when a recession hits, I mean that's one of the first things that you think that's going to stop. Is people stop new construction or it becomes more challenging, and I'm sure that had a really negative impact.
Speaker 2:It did. The type of construction materials that we provided were not for residential use, it was industrial and commercial use and that type of building just dried up and there wasn't much of it around of it around.
Speaker 1:So I mean this um wayne corporation. I mean that was a fairly successful business for many years and I think they more lost out just to competition.
Speaker 2:Well they perhaps.
Speaker 1:I don't know for sure, because you know there's still people going to school and people got to get on school buses.
Speaker 2:Well, they did lose out to competition and they, they also began to falter when they kept changing hands. A new entity would buy and instead of worrying about long-term, they were I'm not going to say greed, but they wanted to pull as much out as quickly as they possibly could, which in a large effect, hurt the company, which, in a large effect, hurt the company. And then the other problem was that school buses were built under such stringent guidelines that they would have about a 15-year life cycle, so it's not like Richmond High School is going to be buying buses every year. Once you sell one, you may not have another shot for another 15 years.
Speaker 1:Did you ever do one of those road trips where you delivered buses?
Speaker 2:Oh, I did several of those during college, I'm sure lots of people did.
Speaker 1:those Just explain what that was like to people watching or listening.
Speaker 2:Well, there might be a group of, let's say, six of us who would take off. We'd all have our own school bus that we were going to deliver and one of the buses normally the bus in the rear would have a tow vehicle that was hitched on to the back of a school bus and it was normally a. A big van wasn't necessarily the cleanest van by any means, but after you made your delivery you'd all pile into this van and come home, hit on back. It was a miserable time, but you know you had to do it in those times just to come up with some money yeah, I mean, would they take those as far as, like, the west coast and east?
Speaker 2:coast and even as far as alaska. Now I did not make that particular trip, but yeah I yeah, I've gone to the West Coast before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure that was. I mean, whenever I think of driving a bus it seems kind of intimidating because they're so big. They are big and maybe driving for an hour or two, but just to drive something like that clearly across the country.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, on the open roads not so bad, but when you get into metropolitan areas where you might have six lanes of traffic, it was pretty stressful yeah.
Speaker 1:So you retired in 2018. So you retired in 2018 and uh. But I want to go through um back up a few years before you retired, in 2015,. Uh, when you were inducted into the uh, indiana, indiana golf hall of fame. So I'm going to painstakingly here, go through this. What they wrote. So in 2015,. Uh, ij wrote this about you when you were inducted.
Speaker 1:So it says when you think of amateur golf in indiana, skip runnels is a name that comes to mind. Runnels was a three-time letterman winner at richmond high school. The 1975 ball state invitational champion. 92 and 93 IGA Match Play Champion. Usga Team Championship Member. 95, 2000,. First Indiana Golf Hall of Fame Inductee. 2002 IGA Mid-Am Champion. 2008 IGA Senior Amateur Champ. Winner of seven IGA and IGA Senior Championships. A winner of 20 plus and IGA senior championships. A winner of 20-plus this is killing you, I know hearing this because you're so humble 20-plus team championships. A winner of 15 club championships and the 2013 IGA senior player of the year and back then, about nine years ago, 62, reynolds continues to finish towards the top of the leaderboard in most IGA senior events and his sportsmanship on and off the course does not go unnoticed.
Speaker 1:So this doesn't even mention, I believe, 18 city championships that you won. So I mean, when you go over all that, I mean you've had just a wonderful time playing golf and very successful career and competition and and when, and there's even went on to do other tournaments in the nine years after this. Uh, it's just uh. I mean what? What kind of memories does it draw for you? I mean, I'm sure, a sense of accomplishment, but just the enjoyment, or the people you've met, the different courses you've got to play all those things.
Speaker 2:Well, you have to realize I've lost a whole lot more than I've won. So when you do have the opportunity to win, it's great and those memories are great as well. When you do have the opportunity to win, it's great and those memories are great as well. But it's unbelievable the amount of people that you meet and how many of those people become friends and remain friends. Guys that I haven't played with for years. I still talk with them, either through text messages or an occasional call. Some of the golf courses, the venues, have been just out of sight, just fantastic and uh, without somewhat of my playing resume I wouldn't have been allowed to even play a lot of these places or a lot of these events. So the whole package has just been really, you know, a wonderful thing for me uh, the uh that's.
Speaker 1:Isn't that one of the great things about golf? Those that some of the byproducts of it, the game is. I mean, you love the game, obviously, uh, I love it. Uh, not that kind of level like you were, but that's what's great about the game of golf Anybody, any level, can play it, because of the handicap system and you've got to spend some time together with people when you play golf. It takes a while.
Speaker 2:It does yeah.
Speaker 1:At least four hours typically, and depending on who you're playing with, it might be going to five. But yeah, I mean, don't you think that's a unique thing about the game? Is relationships that come out of it, because of the nature of the game it really is, uh.
Speaker 2:And if you remember back some of your terrific athletes, uh, in other sports when you were growing up, if they didn't have a offshoot like golf when they got older, I mean, what were they going to do? So golf fills that equation perfectly. It's not that it's a strenuous sport, but if you want to get better at it, you do have to spend some time and uh. But, like you said, the great byproduct is all the other things that come along with it uh, gonna go back in time a little bit.
Speaker 1:Uh, regarding golf is like I'm sure people would love to know, like, like, when did you first start playing? I mean, how old were you?
Speaker 2:I don't actually have a actual date. Uh, my father was an accomplished player and I would guess that he probably put a golf club in my hand when I was five, six, seven years old. Uh, I began to play, I think, when I was probably around 10 or 11, where my mother might drop me off at the golf course and typically I'd stay there all day long and play.
Speaker 1:So I've been at it for, you know, over 60 years and that would have been like originally at the old elks, which is, I guess, considered east side of town it is.
Speaker 2:Uh, if you're familiar with where walgreens and the arboretum is and all what's going on out there, there was a nine hole golf course out there which the elks had was originally the old Richmond Country Club, slash Forest Hills, but that's where I played. It was a neat place and they allowed juniors to be involved and again, I had several friends out there who were playing as well, so we just really took advantage of it so that course would have been there.
Speaker 1:Would Highland have been a course? Yet no, and now Forest Hills would have been around.
Speaker 2:Forest Hills was there.
Speaker 1:But that course, I mean, was it pretty busy. I mean it's just a nine-hole course. I mean it seemed like it could be potentially tough to even get on course.
Speaker 2:I mean it seemed like it could be potentially tough to even get on. I mean, well, as a kid you know you're out there generally when most of the older people are working. So it wasn't difficult for us, but it was very crowded. In fact that was one of the decisions why a new location, they felt like it was needed, and to expand to 18 holes, and you also had the glenn miller course, which again was just nothing more than nine holes. So there was a lot of activity going on, golf wise back in those days uh, then the new alks you know out on the south side of town 18.
Speaker 1:I mean you were there, I mean you can remember when it opened.
Speaker 2:Yes, I did.
Speaker 1:Would have been in late 64, I think when that facility opened. And so we talked a little bit about high school and some of your teammates that some people may still remember. Those were, like you mentioned Kevin McClure was one that you mentioned, I think to me.
Speaker 2:Kevin was the son of Bill McClure, very accomplished player. Played at Purdue after Richmond. Unfortunately, kevin just died within the last year. Unfortunately, kevin just died within the last year. Skip Alder was another player who was on our team, who was a good player, randy Saylor, gary Griffin. Some of the older guys ahead of me were Rick Niersbach, mark Hamner, bill Kelly and a lot of these names won't mean much to a lot of people, but I still remember them.
Speaker 1:There might be some old fellows listening to this later.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:When you think about. I mean, there's probably different times where a certain win or something was special, but is there a couple of wins that kind of stick out in your mind that you know is just kind of special to you when you won them?
Speaker 2:Well, I think probably my first city golf tournament, which was a long, long time ago, was an accomplishment that I was wondering if I would ever be able to do, and then I can recall my first IGA win. It was a team event, but still I was able to secure one of those plaques that I had seen around and I wanted one of those. There's been a lot of meaningful ones, but probably those two.
Speaker 1:What? What do you do? What have you done with all these trophies and plaques and medals and stuff? Do you what? Do you just just kind of put in boxes somewhere, or do you have them kind of displayed somewhere?
Speaker 2:I mean, well, a lot of them are in the attic in a box. Boxes, Uh, I have some in the basement. I have a few that are displayed at the house, but you know, after a few years you know you don't think about it much.
Speaker 1:I get it. One thing about you you've always very humble about your accomplishments. You've got to play a lot of great courses just in indiana, but all over the country. Um, what in indiana? I mean we don't want to offend anybody, but what do you? When you think of some of the I mean just a great golf course in the state? I mean, what are some of the ones that come to mind to you that stick out?
Speaker 2:when I was young, otter creek and columbus was just a fantastic facility and it still is. But since that time crooked stick in indianapolis has been added to the mix. Sycamore hills and fort way, which is a necklace design, is fabulous. Crooked Stick was a Pete Dye design In the southern part of the state. There's a couple of them down there Victoria National, which is just outside Evansville, which is a Tom Fazio design, then in French Lick, the new Dye course and also the the old donald ross course.
Speaker 1:They're just fabulous venues, what would be kind of a sneaky, really special course in the state that people just don't know about that would be a tough question.
Speaker 2:Oh, there are a couple of them. In Jasper, Indiana, there is a public golf course called Salton's Run and I'm sure a lot of people have never heard of it, but it's a fabulous golf course, really a neat, neat place.
Speaker 1:As far as in other parts of the state, up in Angola, you and I have played Glen Dern, which is in a small little community, but it's a fabulous, fabulous golf course and that was just built on a man's passion to build a golf course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there are courses like that sprinkled all throughout the state that are really hidden little gems.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the state of are really hidden little gems. Yeah, I mean, the state of Indiana does have a pretty good share of golf courses.
Speaker 2:We do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one interesting thing that you're involved in that people don't know is the Indiana Golf Association, and maybe I knew it, maybe I forgot about it, but you're actually the president of the IGA.
Speaker 2:I am.
Speaker 1:And when did you first get involved in the IGA?
Speaker 2:It's been several years I think it's been 30 plus years that I've been involved, mostly as a district director, but in the last several years got involved into the, the chairs, so to speak, the officer positions, and currently I am, for a two-year period, the president of the Indiana Golf Association.
Speaker 1:So what is kind of the mission of the IGA overall?
Speaker 2:It's to promote golf in Indiana keep the traditions of the game alive in Indiana. There are a lot of different umbrellas that come under the IGA and probably the main focus right now is First Tee. Indiana has chapters all over and it's all headquartered out of the IGA office, and Richmond, right here, in fact, has one of the flagships. It was one of the first ones that was started by Bo Van Pelton and his father, bob, and they have done a tremendous job here. There are thousands of kids involved.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it seems like you know, like you drive by there during the summer and it amazes me how many kids are out there hitting balls and many different volunteers to go out there and help because it's basically all volunteer driven Basically, so yes, yeah, yeah. As president, what are some of your responsibilities? I mean running meetings or attending meetings.
Speaker 2:It's not that it's a tremendous amount of time consumption on my part, because the Indiana Golf Office does have an executive director and the employees all answer directly to him. But when procedural things come up or just questions in general on where we want to go with things, there is a board that's in place. The IGA is also teamed with the PGA of Indiana, so both the IGA and the PGA have an officer group and when issues just come up, we as a group we'll work on that. We have a handful of actual meetings throughout the year where we'll get together and go over agendas, where we stand on our budgets and things such as that, and so it's a little bit of time involved, but most of the day-to-day stuff is still all done right out of the office over there.
Speaker 1:What do you see as maybe a couple of the biggest challenges with just the game of golf in general today?
Speaker 2:Well, prior to the COVID years, golf was a little bit on the downswing, not just in Indiana but all over. But after that there's been a rebirth and, quite honestly, the game is quite strong now. I think the biggest thing that we as a group are trying to work on is the so-called just casual golfer. If you've ever been to a top golf, you'll see a lot of players or people there who've never played golf before, but the places are always constantly busy. It's almost like a bowling alley. You can go in and sit down, you can order food, drink. When it's your turn, you get up and play. So that type of golfer we are trying to focus on, to get involved in some just non-stressful tournaments, sociable type events, and we're doing pretty well with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I always think of one of the challenges with golf is it takes a long time, it's hard and it's expensive. Those are the things that I think of when people talk about kind of the downside to golf is those things.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of where we were just a few years ago. But for whatever reason, after, after covid, no longer the problem.
Speaker 1:So what I was part of my question was going to be what are the challenges and what are some of the things you're excited about?
Speaker 2:and I think you kind of answered both of them a little bit about one other thing that we're doing is a as a indiana golf association, slashGA, Our headquarters for the last several years has been in Franklin, Indiana, butted up to the Legends Golf Course. We've sold that property and just recently broke ground for a new location in Indianapolis which is more centrally located and it's going to be located in Lawrence, Indiana, at the Fort Golf Course, which is on the old Fort Benjamin Harrison. It's a great, great facility. It was redone several years ago by Pete Dye and through the state and the Department of Natural Resources we've been given some ground there and hopefully within the next year or so there'll be a brand new facility built there.
Speaker 1:What's the kind of do you know what? The budget for that building has been About six and a half million.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we're in the process right now of fundraising and doing quite well with that, so I don't think that's going to be a problem to hit that goal.
Speaker 1:During the time that, all these years that you've been playing golf, you've had to have met some unique people. During those years, I mean anybody. Any few people stand out to you, people that you've met that really you wouldn't have met because of the game.
Speaker 2:I know you've met a lot of people, but I have met a lot of people fuzzy zeller from indiana, bill kratzert, who you'll see doing live broadcasts still on tv from indiana. But I've been able to sit down with arnold Palmer. I've actually sat down and had a 10 or 15-minute conversation with Jack Nicklaus. Lots of impressive people, business people, and I'm sure I've been around several more that I'm just not. They're just not coming to mind right now, but yeah, it's been fun.
Speaker 1:So I remember a little bit about the story about you getting to getting to speak to jack nicholas, and I think it was probably a handful of years ago now, was it like some, somewhat correct on that you are and uh. So I mean he's definitely, uh, jack is up there in age, but how was he pretty engaging guy at that time when you sat and talked to him that day, I mean.
Speaker 2:Jack was probably 80 years old at the time.
Speaker 2:Okay, and in all reality I was a nervous wreck, but I had had a story given to me by someone here locally that had the chance to be with him years and years ago and they had asked me if I got a chance to sit down and relate this story to him and when you think of the amount of people he's met that he sees on a daily basis, uh, he took the time to sit and listen, and I don't know if this is the truth or not, but he acted as if he remembered, and it was impressive for me to sit there and listen to him respond back in a way that made me think he really did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, growing up, I mean you played golf a lot, just from being a kid. Do you remember following professional golf much at all? Or was it you're just more concerned, just going out there and playing with your friends?
Speaker 2:I did. My father took me to play not to play but to watch a few of the PGA events. But back in those days you know live broadcasts on TV events. But back in those days you know live broadcasts on tv. That just wasn't a part of your day-to-day living. And when it did first come out, I think, if I recall, maybe only the last three holes of an event were actually televised, so it's not like you could key in on the leaders all the way through their round. You just had to watch who was on 18, 17 and 16, which very well might not have been your leaders, but that was pretty much of the broadcast back in those days.
Speaker 1:So I didn't know if there was like certain professional golfers that were that you kind of just were the guys that you like the most. You know, everybody's got athletes. If if you're a bat, if you play basketball, there's probably a basketball player that you kind of just were the guys that you liked the most. You know everybody's got athletes. If you play basketball, there's probably a basketball player that you like.
Speaker 2:So I didn't know if there was golfers back then. I was a big fan of Ben Hogan, not because of his personality, because he didn't have much of one, but he was a tremendous player. And Arnold Palmer, who I just thought was phenomenal, still do, and he had the charisma and he really is the one who was able to springboard golf into what it's become today. Right.
Speaker 1:And then I guess you could maybe say Tiger Woods transformed it in a major way after that.
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I'm going to be 60 this year, but you know, when I think I mean times that I was really into golf, because I didn't really start playing golf much until I was in my 20s. And you know, tiger Woods comes on the scene and there's just nobody like him. I love Jack Nicklaus and I love watching some of the old stuff. When he won the Masters the last time, it seems like every year or so I'll go back and try to bring up the footage and watch that again because it was just wonderful. I wish that would have been recorded into today's technology because it would have been really, but it was still amazing to watch him win that tournament, you know it's.
Speaker 2:It's hard to compare generations, but, uh, there's no question in my mind that tiger has played the best golf that's ever been played by anyone. Now, was he as dominant as maybe someone else was? Probably, and maybe even more so, but there's always been your dominant players in each of the generations. It just seems because of when he came along and after Arnold, he was able to transcend it, even to a new level, and I don't see anyone out there yet that's able to move the needle quite like he did.
Speaker 1:And what's so scary about him is I think he probably could have won way more than he did. I do too but physically personal and physical challenges, you know kind of, you know I think gotten away at that.
Speaker 2:They did for him.
Speaker 1:Um, I mean every lots of kids. There's kids today that are playing basketball, who are seven, eight, nine years old, who their dream has become go to the NBA. It is so. Was there ever a point when you were playing like you said oh, it'd be really cool if I could go be a professional golfer. Did it ever? When did that kind of enter your mind? I mean, you've had a great career and I've seen you play some incredibly good golf. You're probably the first to say there's a lot of guys like me, you know, but did those thoughts ever come in your mind?
Speaker 2:Well, they did. When I was in college I thought about it, but back in those days everything was top heavy. Only the guys who won or who were in the top ten really made a living. Who won or who in the top 10 really made a living. So the financial rewards were nothing like today, where just if you make it on tour, you know millions of dollars are going to pour your way. And also through competition.
Speaker 2:In college I got to play with some of these guys who actually did become very, very good players on the pga tour, and they were better than I was, and when I used to tell you I was one of 10 000, it's a true statement and your chances of being that one in 10 000. To get there, you know, everything just has to fall in place, lightning has to strike at the right time and your odds just aren't good. So if you do make that decision to try to move into the professional ranks and you don't do well or well enough, you've lost maybe five to ten years worth of running power, and that was the decision why I decided not to. And that was the decision why I decided not to.
Speaker 1:Did you ever try to qualify for, like the US Open or the I don't know the US Amateur? Did you ever try to qualify for some of those tournaments?
Speaker 2:Nothing US Open-wise US Amateur only one time because I was working. It was just tough for me to be able to justify doing that. But I did qualify for several United States mid-amateurs and I qualified for several United States senior amateurs and some USGA team events. So I think I played in about 10 USGA events over my career and that's a step above level-wise.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it would have been. You still play a great game, but I would think when you consider your prime, I'm not sure what it would have been like to try to qualify for a US Open, or what the process would have been then versus what it is even today. I don't know.
Speaker 2:It was more difficult almost then in terms of the amount of steps you had to take to get to a US Open, but as far as the level of skill that you have to have today, it's even greater. It's tough to do. Plus, you know, when you're talking about a US Open your professionals are playing than that as well, so I just never did give that a shot.
Speaker 1:Any, as we're wrapping up, any interesting stories about golf that you think that our followers would like to hear about.
Speaker 2:Maybe some of our stories. I don't know about those.
Speaker 1:I think those are better left between us?
Speaker 2:Then probably not.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I've really enjoyed talking to you about this and enjoyed the times that we've played golf and just what you've done for the game of golf and what you're doing with the IGA, and it's just been a real pleasure to get to talk to you. I appreciate you doing this with me today and I guess, without anything else, we'll just wrap it up, okay sounds great.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I really appreciate it very much have fun Michael Allen from Manpower.
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