'The Hub' with Michael Allen sponsored by Manpower Richmond
Welcome to "The Hub with Michael Allen," the podcast that dives deep into the stories of community leaders and business owners who are making a difference. Join your host, Michael Allen, as he uncovers the untold narratives, challenges, and triumphs of those shaping their communities.
In each episode, Michael sits down with remarkable individuals who have dedicated their lives to improving their neighborhoods, towns, and cities. These community leaders are passionate, driven, and committed to creating positive change. Whether they are activists, educators, philanthropists, or civic officials, they all share a common goal: to build stronger, more vibrant communities.
"The Hub" also showcases the journeys of business owners who have turned their dreams into reality. From small-scale startups to well-established enterprises, these entrepreneurs share their insights, experiences, and lessons learned along the way. Michael delves into the unique challenges they face, the strategies they employ, and the impact their businesses have on the local economy and society at large.
With engaging conversations and thought-provoking discussions, "The Hub with Michael Allen" provides listeners with valuable takeaways, inspiration, and actionable ideas. Each episode offers a glimpse into the minds and hearts of those who are actively shaping the fabric of their communities, providing a roadmap for listeners who want to make a difference in their own lives and surroundings.
Tune in to "The Hub with Michael Allen" and join the conversation as we explore the stories of community leaders and business owners who are leaving an indelible mark on the world around them. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and empowered to take action. Together, we can create a better tomorrow for everyone.
Sponsored by Manpower Richmond.
'The Hub' with Michael Allen sponsored by Manpower Richmond
Ep. 28 | Gary Rodgers on ‘Global Experience, Local Impact’ with Michael Allen on The Hub
One email changed Gary Rodgers’ morning in New York and, in many ways, his life. From that moment on Queens Boulevard to a long career spent building 311 and 911 systems, tracking outbreaks, and helping governments around the world respond more effectively, Gary kept chasing one purpose: to make things work better for the people on the other end of the line. That same mission now drives his hometown accounting firm, where he helps small businesses stay compliant, grow smart, and keep more of what they earn while staying grounded in the community he loves.
Host Michael Allen sits down with Gary on The Hub to unpack the winding journey behind it all. They talk about his military family roots and the sense of duty that came from growing up around constant movement and adaptation. Gary reflects on his years working under Mayor Bill Hudnut in Indianapolis, where he learned the power of public service and collaboration. He shares stories from his early tech days when curiosity led him to “borrow” a neighbor’s computer, sparking a passion that would fuel decades of innovation in public systems and crisis response.
Gary opens up about the lessons learned from managing high-pressure systems like 911 and outbreak tracking, where every second counts and accountability is everything. He explains how those same principles now shape his accounting practice. The focus is on building continuity, creating repeatable systems, and making sure clients are taken care of even when life throws curveballs. One of his smartest decisions came when he chose to outsource first-round interviews to Manpower, which led to his best hire yet. As Gary puts it, efficiency often starts with recognizing your weakest link and finding the right people to strengthen it.
The conversation also dives deep into energy, growth, and development in Wayne County. Gary shares a thoughtful perspective on wind turbines, solar fields, and the proposed 585-acre data center project. He explains how communities can measure projects against a master plan, set real penalties for external impacts, and ensure that issues like noise, flicker, and energy draw don’t cross property lines. His approach blends data, practicality, and an unwavering respect for property rights.
This is a story-rich episode full of lessons from decades of leadership, public service, and local business. From global crisis work to small-town accounting, it’s a reminder that making things better for people often starts right where you stand. And yes, there’s even a cameo from Gary’s nine-pound office dog named Sam and a collection of Hawaiian shirts that remind everyone to keep perspective.
🎧 The Hub with Michael Allen is sponsored by Manpower Richmond. Learn more at www.mprichmond.com
Connect with Gary Rodgers at www.gardnerrodgers.com
Welcome to the Hub Podcast, recorded right here in Richmond, Indiana. I'm your host, Michael Allen, and on the Hub, our mission is to share stories of people making a difference in our region. In addition to hosting the podcast, I work with a wonderful team of staffing professionals at Manpower. Manpower is helping companies all over East Central Indiana find staffing so they can continue to grow and thrive. Find out how we can help your company at mprichmond.com. So today on this episode of The Hub, we have Gary Rogers with Gardner Rogers and Associates in Newcastle. Gary, welcome to the hub. Thank you. Thank you for joining us today. It's good to have you with us. And also with us today is Colleen Weddle. And Colleen is the sales and marketing uh director with Manpower here in East Central Indiana. Colleen, welcome to this side of the microphone and the cameras.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you very much for having me.
SPEAKER_02:And I I decided I asked Colleen to be on today's episode because it's through uh Colleen's interaction with Gary that Gary ended up being uh we asked Gary if he would be a guest with us today. And uh and that all came about through um BI. So that is uh Business Networking International. Yes. So tell us, Colleen, a little bit about your involvement with BI and how you ended up meeting Gary.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that is kind of an interesting story. When we decided to open our office in Newcastle, several local business people there had said, hey, there's this, you know, referral um organization that maybe manpower should become involved with. So it was brought to my attention. It's called BI, which is Business Networking International. Um, I had been in that 10, 15 years ago here in Richmond. We had a chapter here, but then it dissolved. So I was kind of aware of what it was about. And I went in and had a couple visits. Um, Gary was one of the first people that I met when I went in there. And um we joined. We ended up, you know, it I'm going on my second year of being in BI. And Gary is um he's he's a great guy that has a lot of fun stories to tell every week. And that's how our connection started.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, Colin would come back and she always mentioned this this Gary guy that she met. So uh such a nice guy and very interesting. And and then uh uh early on, you were gracious to give us a little bit of business. Oh, man power.
SPEAKER_01:You guys solved a real problem that we have. Um we uh my little accounting firm is growing and has been growing over the last few years, which means that I continually need more people, right? And I need people that I can really trust because it's really a trust business with our clients. And one of the things of where I'm really truly horrible is in the um interviews for potential employees. I'm just awful at it. And knowing that I'm awful at it, I decided to find somebody who was really good at it to solve that problem for me. You know, if it's if you need your taxes done, I can do that, but this is something that I just couldn't do well. So I decided to reach out and get somebody else to do it for me. And um, Colleen really f filled that uh for us. It um, you know, a group that's really personable and they can reach out into the community, and they really brought some people in. And we went through a few. Some of them um worked out well. Uh we had we had some trial and error. Um had some people who said they wanted to do the job, but they really didn't. Um, but finally uh we did find a person, and she's been absolutely awesome. Came through manpower, worked for uh was a manpower employee for a period of time, and then we brought her on to hire, and we just couldn't be happier. And that whole front-end process where I'm just horrible. Manpower covered that for me and got us to the end that we really wanted. And uh now that employee is absolutely covered up with work. And um, my partner Lori Gardner and I are looking at each other thinking, huh, we have tax season coming up, and we may have to get at somebody else. We don't know. So depends on uh when uh our new employee, Brooke, when she cries uncle, then we'll have to start the whole process.
SPEAKER_00:I think we know somebody that could help with that.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, hey, I I really appreciate those kind words. It's been great. It's been great uh to work with you. And uh so I just appreciate that so much. Uh I'm gonna have you we're gonna go into your uh professional career, but before we do that, uh won't you just tell a little bit about our followers, about yourself personally, kind of growing up, where you came from and um Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um my father was in the military, so we grew up um mostly overseas. I went to three high schools in three countries in three years, graduated from high school in the Philippines a really long time ago. Uh in yeah, well, it was during the Vietnam War, let's put it that way. So it was a long time ago. And um um went to uh went to college, got out, got a master's degree, uh, ultimately wound up working for um Bill Hudnett uh for the city of Indianapolis. And that really kicked off uh a career. Um worked for the city for 11 years, and then I went to work for one of my vendors, uh, went to went into the private sector, and I was uh vice president of a software company. Uh we did municipal utility management and wound up uh implementing that software in New York City. And um I was there on September 11th in 2001, which was uh very strange day. Um and from there went to Hewlett-Packard, where I managed um central government and civilian agency um computing solutions on a worldwide basis. Um think about passport systems and mapping systems and those kind of big um eligibility uh government uh benefit eligibility systems, those kinds of things. And uh it was a great career. When I retired, uh I was uh sitting around the house, and uh one day uh my wife came home and I had painted the hallway and I had watched some cooking show on TV, gone to the store and fixed dinner, and she looked at me and she pointed her finger and she said, You gotta find somewhere to go. So I bought an accounting firm. Yeah. And uh it's been uh it's been a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I I want to um go back to you know, you your uh father was in the military. He was and uh so a couple of interesting things that pick up from that is that you know that was you were in high school during the Vietnam War, correct? Going there. And uh so uh and then you were in the Philippines, and I I don't have my geography, Matt, but the Philippines isn't that super far from Vietnam, or is it no, it it's far from here.
SPEAKER_01:Uh it's way it's way over there. And uh Clark Air Base, where we lived, was one of the places that um they regularly flew the wounded out to Clark. Okay, and then there was a big hospital there, and then back to the States from there. Um my father was the um uh first sergeant of the fourth mobile communications group. Um, and so he regularly spent time in Vietnam. About every six weeks he would go to Vietnam and uh they would have their whatever mission they had at that time, and he would take a bunch of guys and go over there and do whatever and then come back. Um so it was, yeah, we were we were pretty close. It was a it was a pretty big deal.
SPEAKER_02:Where did you end up? So uh where did you end up going to college? I can't remember when we talked about it.
SPEAKER_01:I went to um uh I graduated from McMurray University in Abilene, Texas, which is a small United Methodist school. And um it's um but yeah, Abilene, so west of Dallas, uh quite a ways, but that you can go a long way in Texas and still be in Texas.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you share with me that you had spent some time in United Methodist Church, and and I think you probably went to that school because of your desire to do that at that time. Yeah. And then was it after the time that you spent serving in the church that you went to work for HUD Nut? It is, it is. So, you know, and um you know, uh Hudnett, he was uh he was involved in ministry. He's a Presbyterian minister, I believe. That's a Presbyterian. And uh You know he would have been I think he's probably still one of the longest serving mayors in in the state of Indiana.
SPEAKER_01:He had four terms. I think so, yeah. And they had uh they passed a special bill at state level, they called it the HUD Nut Forever bill that allowed him to have multiple terms in Indianapolis. And um honestly, he was uh he was a great guy to work for, uh, very demanding. Um he had a phenomenal memory for people's names. Uh I wish I could remember what he could remember. Um he was very exacting in his requirements for those of us who worked for him and worked directly with him. Um, I was doing public information for the Department of Public Works. And when he would uh be interviewed by the press, for instance, or by anyone in the media, um if they asked him a question that to which he did not know the answer, um the six people who were in my position, we'd be standing behind him. And if it was in my area and he didn't know the answer, he would pause for a beat, and that was our cue to step up behind him and provide the answer in a low tone, and he would repeat exactly what we said. He was like on a loop, and he would repeat exactly what we said, our tone, everything, and like mindlessly just repeat what we said. You better be right when you're in that spot. How many years was it that you uh again worked for him? Um, I worked for the city for 11 years. I think the first six or seven of it, he was there, and then um he did retire and uh moved on, and we had Mayor Goldsmith and then others.
SPEAKER_02:So you would have been uh probably like the eighties was the right. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um I was there from eighty-four to ninety-five. Okay, all right. Because it I'm gonna be able to do that. When he brought the Colts.
SPEAKER_02:Because he was there 76 to 92. And uh uh I I because I just when we talked about him, because I I just felt it interesting that that you had worked with him. And then during that time, I mean a lot of things I think I I wrote down this quote thing that I saw about him is that when he came into office, he wanted to make it in India no place to India show place. You remember that? Yeah. And uh so and I think there was a lot of things that happened during his leadership that really turned, I think, Indianapolis around at that time.
SPEAKER_01:Right. The downtown, the uh central train station, um, the downtown mall was built during that time. Um there were uh the sports things with the Colts and um the Pan American Games came to um Indianapolis. There were um quite a lot of those kinds of big events. Uh beyond that, uh he was uh very, very involved in uh neighborhood community groups. And he would go and meet with neighborhood groups all across um the city, which of course it was city-county, right? So all of Marion County was Indianapolis. And uh he'd go meet with groups, and um, I can remember I would have four by six cards with all the issues for that neighborhood from my agency um on these four by six cards, and I would meet with him a few blocks from the meeting. I'd get in his car and uh give him the cards and tell him what was coming, and I would ride to the wherever we were going, and he'd get out and go in, and they'd start the meeting, and I would get out later. Um but uh he was uh really involved and really, really cared. He drove us relentlessly. He drove himself relentlessly in order to do stuff for Indianapolis. It was um I felt like we really did a lot of good uh for the community at that time. It was it was really quite amazing work in there.
SPEAKER_02:So because you have I think one thing I found interesting, Gary, about your career is that you know you were had a time in ministry, and then you went from ministry to government, and then the rest of your time was really spent in the private sector. So you really kind of hit a lot of bases during your time. And I've that really uh I think makes for really kind of an interesting life and and different experiences because they all are very different, not that they don't have crossovers, but they I mean, do you see that? They're quite different.
SPEAKER_01:Well, they were different. There is a a continuity um uh a bit of a theme that um I tried to put myself in a place, and they each each spot seemed to be a stepping stone to the next spot, but in all of those places, I feel like I I was trying to do something that really actually helped people. So at the city, part of what I did was manage the call center. You know, hello, this is the city, how can we help? Your trash was missed, your sewers backed up, your what you know, whatever it is, you have stormwater problems. Let's get somebody to help. Um the software company managed that kind of stuff. Uh in New York City, that software implementation was the beginning of their 311 project, which is the city helpline. Uh so they have since brought in you know lots of other agencies and uh expanded it. But that was the beginning uh in the in New York City. And then that got me into the worldwide team where I was I worked, I was a part of the a much larger team working on New York City's 911 project after September 11. Um I was in Hong Kong uh uh when SARS broke out, and uh we implemented a mapping system uh in Hong Kong for tracking infectious disease and established a database that tracked all that stuff. So it but it it always had something to do with getting something done for people. Aaron Powell Was this with HP or the other company? Well, Hong Kong was the HP. Um New York City started with the other software company and I transitioned to HP while I was doing that. Okay. HP was my system integrator, and I so I was working for the software company and got hired by my system integrator. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02:So what's your background that led you to be able to go into HP and do that kind of work? I have absolutely no background.
SPEAKER_01:Um I was working for the city. Um personal computers at the time cost uh$5,000 a piece, and they had two floppy disks, and um some of them had no hard drives, but my original computer had a 10-megabyte hard drive. I mean, my phone is better than the server we had at that time. Yeah. Uh so um but um my director was told by someone, not me, that um I had computerized my shop and made a list, a computerized list of all the calls we were getting. Was not true. Um, but she told me that I had better. So uh the guy in the office next to me had ordered a computer, uh, and then he went on vacation and it was delivered, and so I stole it. And I moved it into my office, set it up. Yeah, me. Set it up. Um, had uh one of the guys on the floor who knew something about computers show me how to install some software, and I just learned as I went from there, uh literally winging it. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:That's impressive.
SPEAKER_02:You were in New York City on 9-11. I was. And so what capacity were you there at that time? And where kind of where were you when all that happened? Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Um so on the Friday before that Tuesday, I had sent an email to my two clients. I had one client um at the health department for New York City. We were doing the Westnow virus tracking system, and that client's in Manhattan, and I was still doing the project in uh the Department of Environmental Protection, the Water Sewer Agency. And that one is in Queens. So I sent the two guys an email, uh, copied both of them, and said, I'm gonna be there. Do you want me in the morning or the afternoon? And the guy from Queens said, Come here in the morning. That email stopped me from being in the World Trade Center when the first plane hit. Because I would normally have taken the e-train to the World Trade Center, I get a bagel and a coffee, walk a few blocks to the health department, and begin my day. Uh so instead I was headed to Queens. And when the first plane hit, I was having breakfast. And when the second plane hit, I was standing on Queens Boulevard.
SPEAKER_02:Relationship to how how far?
SPEAKER_01:Uh a couple of miles, but I could see it. Of course the towers were always on the skyline, and but could see when the second plane went. And yeah, it was crazy. Um and the uh I was in the Lefrac building um in Queens, which is about at mid midtown level in Manhattan, um, and uh was standing in a big floor-to-ceiling window on the tenth floor when the buildings came down, and it was incredible to see that. Um Yeah, I mean, you saw it live. I did saw it live. And uh the their system manager who was always scrapping for money uh within the agency said now they'll give me all the money I want for backups.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:It's like yeah, they will.
SPEAKER_00:It's gotta be something that you never leaves your mind either.
SPEAKER_01:No. And the quiet in Queens in the aftermath was amazing. Um, because you know, New York's never quiet. But that day it was absolutely silent, like standing out in a cornfield. It was crazy.
SPEAKER_02:What did you end up doing the rest of that day?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, uh trying to contact home. Um and we um so the of course the cell towers were all down, the landlines weren't working, and I you know, I mean I my wife of course knew where I was, um and but she didn't know which client I went to. And so it was mid-afternoon sometime when I finally was able to get a line out and contact her and let her know. I bet that was an interesting conversation. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She was relieved because she well, she was afraid that after the first attacks, if that didn't get me that later on. And I had a an office in Midtown. Um and she was afraid that of course they would then attack those office buildings in Midtown where my office was.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, how strange for her to be watching all this transpire at home and then you're actually there in person. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Not where you're at. It was hard. It was hard. I mean it's a big place. Yeah. But you know, she knew you're where you were going and clients you're calling on, and and probably where you possibly could be.
SPEAKER_01:Well, she knew that I regularly took the subway to the World Trade Center and that I had had meetings there. And um so it was but yeah, that was a challenging day for her. Um but you know, we all got through it. She knew I traveled. I um she told me I traveled 45 weeks a year, so uh pretty accustomed to not knowing where in the air or on the ground that I was.
SPEAKER_02:So for HP, you had to travel a lot. I did. And I mean, well what took you all over this the world? I mean, is it because you had to meet with certain clients face to face?
SPEAKER_01:Meeting with clients face to face. Um there are going to a lot of conferences, speaking in conferences for talking about security in at conferences and uh then meeting with clients um at you know just around the world. So everywhere I went, there was a local sales team who um were working on some kind of a project or trying to get a customer to either put out a request for proposals, uh establish the specs for a request for proposals, or expand a particular project into a subsequent phase. And so um I would go and meet with them and bring kind of the lessons that we brought from all over the world. So I was collecting up uh, you know, everything we were doing around the world to be able to bring that to um the clients that we had in any one place. So it was fun and um met with people, uh government agencies, you know, all over the place.
SPEAKER_02:Uh what would you say to people? I mean, do you think it's I mean how many years ago was it that you were traveling? Like you were at the height of all your travels, when was that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I retired from HP in 2013. Okay. And then went to work for Lexmark for a year. And I retired from there.
SPEAKER_02:So I mean, do you even think twice about traveling then? I mean, some people are really apprehensive about travel, especially international travel. Um, and uh I've not got to do much at all. Um my wife, she's she's pretty averse to it. Um, and uh I would I probably might do it, but it seems kind of overwhelming to think about trying to travel to another country and make the plans and do all that. Now maybe you're getting some extra help because you're working for a company.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. But I mean Well, remember that I always had somebody at the other end who was the local person. So I had an advantage that the vacation traveler, for instance, doesn't have. Um, so I there was always a guy, wasn't always a man, some oftentimes it was a woman, but always a guy at the other end. And that guy would uh tell me you know what part of town to stay in or where to stay, whatever, and then where to show up for our first meeting, because they were the ones who arranged the meetings with the clients. So whether I was in India or Mexico or you know, wherever I was, um, Hong Kong, Australia, what have you, um, there was always somebody there at the other end uh to know that I arrived and to meet me somewhere.
SPEAKER_00:They're the ones with the signs when you get off the airplane. Sometimes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Sometimes there was a person there with a sign, and sometimes I just I had a text that said, you know, get on this bus and take it to that place, right? So we would do that. Um, but I really wasn't I really wasn't afraid to travel. I mean, it was no big deal. It was a day at the office, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And you had to have your head on a swivel a bit in some places. I mean, there are places you don't go, other places you don't go alone, and uh you just have to be aware um and then do it.
SPEAKER_02:It this is a hard question, at least I think it's probably a hard question, but of of all the different places you've been, I mean, does one place just stick out in your mind, like, oh man, I just loved being there. It was just wonderful. I mean, it was a certain country, international city that was just stands out in your memory.
SPEAKER_01:Wellington, New Zealand was awesome. I tried to get my boss to let me move to Wellington. I was on a worldwide team. I I had to live in my region. Okay. So I could live anywhere on the planet. She actually wanted me at one point in Singapore or Hong Kong. Um, but I asked her if I could move to Wellington, and she said, Of course you can move to Wellington if the walk-up flight to Washington, D.C. fits in our budget.
unknown:It didn't.
SPEAKER_01:Because sometimes I would be told, you have to be in Washington, D.C. tomorrow. And um we did uh uh we did a bunch of business with agencies that have no names. And um if you gotta be there, you gotta be there. Um but from Wellington, that ticket was about uh five thousand dollars, where from here it was about five hundred.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So tell why is Wellington, why is that such a great place?
SPEAKER_01:Well, it is it it it presents itself as a small European town. Um the architecture is amazing, has a great harbor, it's at the south end of the North Island of New Zealand, and I found an apartment there, um three-bedroom apartment, that came with a slip in the harbor. So I could have had a sailboat that goes with my apartment.
SPEAKER_00:You were really thinking about this when you were there, weren't you?
SPEAKER_01:I was I was and this little apartment was um right across uh the road from they had a natural history museum, and so the you know, this great culture and all of that in this downtown, and it was uh it looked like a small European town, and the people are very friendly, food's awesome, the weather is great, sailboat.
SPEAKER_00:I think I would like to live there too. That sounds awesome.
SPEAKER_02:We can all go. So on the flip side of that, where where did you go? It's like I if I never come here again, that's just gonna be just fine with me.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, uh yeah, there are there are a few places. There actually there are a few places in the U.S. I don't want to, you know, uh dog any particular city, but there are there are some cities where um it's a bit in decline, uh where the administrations just didn't seem to want to help their people. There was one city, uh in the large city in the Midwest, where when I was at the software company, uh None of us were allowed to go there except to go through the airport. Um, because somebody in that administration had asked our owner uh for a bribe. And he said, No, not only will I not give you a bribe, no one from my company will ever come here. So we flew through their airport because we didn't have a choice. Um, but we didn't we didn't go there and try to do anything. Yeah. That kind of dishonesty is just not worth it. It's not worth the effort, and you're not helping people that way.
SPEAKER_02:So no country out there, I was looking for something a little juicier, but if you could pull you into that. No.
SPEAKER_01:No, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do that. Uh I'll tell you what. Um everywhere I went, um, the street food was awesome. Uh you know, hot dogs and uh canish or uh, you know, whatever the local variety of whatever it is. You know, let's let's go do that.
SPEAKER_02:So you you had a little stint at uh at Lexmark. I did. And then um and then you started to get into painting and cooking, and then that led you to being that led you into your current career with uh Gardner Rogers and Associates. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Uh through a friend of a friend. Um a friend of my wife's introduced me to my partner, Lori Gardner. And um uh Lori is from Spiceland, which is just south of Newcastle. And um uh we bought from Gene Dickerson. Uh it was Dickerson Accounting at the time. And Lori and I uh got together and formed a partnership and bought it in July 1st of 2015.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So it's just a little over 10 years now. Um got my credentials from the IRS. I'm an enrolled agent, as is uh my partner, Lori. And um one of the things we wanted to do, Gene was retiring, so he was much older than the both of us. Uh Lori is about the same age as my oldest son. And so one of the things we wanted to do was start a business that wasn't going to retire around us. Um so we, by staggering the ages, uh can provide a continuity plan to our clients so that they have uh not only my lifetime, but then also Lori's working lifetime, where they can plan on having consistent service and you know being watched over and taken care of and um, you know, consistently meet their government requirements and as I always say, pay the lowest legal tax uh so that they can keep more money in their pocket. Right.
SPEAKER_02:So your most of your business is based up around helping small businesses. Is that accurate?
SPEAKER_01:Well, we do individual taxes. We do about 800 sets of taxes a year. Okay. Of those, uh we have about 90 small business clients. Some of them are microbusinesses. It you know, it's a guy and a helper. Um it's uh sometimes just one person whose uh spouse answers the phone for the office, right? So there are little people who, you know, if they were going to a big CPA firm downtown, they couldn't cover the hourly rates, right? So we try to help these microbusinesses and small business. And we have some, you know, multimillion dollar businesses and some with uh 30 or 40 or 50 employees. Um we do about 50 payrolls uh each month, uh or 50 companies' payrolls each month, and uh then do all their books and we take care of some churches, all their payroll, clergy taxes, and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_02:But I I mean I I consider employee total that's around 30 or 40, still a fairly small business. It's small. So I mean, what what role do you believe that small businesses play in a community? I mean you work with them a lot, so they're the the small businesses are the backbone of the community.
SPEAKER_01:And I would encourage everybody, if you're gonna have something done to your house, some service provided uh for your family or whatever, if you can find a local person who does that, that's your best bet. You want that local person because they have a vested interest in making sure things are done right for you. And whether I'm having HVAC work done or plumbing or whatever, I don't think about I I'm not paying for whatever it is they're doing. What I'm paying for is their warranty. And I want that person that's providing my warranty to be that local person.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because that gives me the best. I and I would rather I'd rather pay a little bit more to a local person than try to get some discount or whatever from a nationwide uh firm. Definitely always go local.
SPEAKER_02:That's why I've I've always really enjoyed, you know, working at Manpower's because we're we're connected to Manpower, which is one of the largest staffing companies in internationally, but we're a franchise, so we really are a small business. You know, our staff is a little over 10 people, and we cover about seven or eight counties. But as a franchise owner, we're a I'm able to be very flexible with our clients and cater more so than if you know you're working for a national company where it's real cookie cutter. So being a franchisee uh franchise, we're able to kind of do some other things that just a brand office wouldn't be able to.
SPEAKER_01:It's not just filling out a form on the web. Right. So when we were interviewing people, of course, it was second and third interview for me, right? Because I don't do those initial interviews at all. But uh at the manpower office, we had a couple of people stand us up, which I think is a pretty common thing nowadays.
SPEAKER_02:Aaron Powell Unfortunately, it happens more than we we were just talking about at another client this morning before you came where the we were excited, had a personal set up to go and get uh uh go through a testing to see if they would qualify to work there, and then the person didn't go. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And you guys have done that kind of assessment for us as well, some testing. Um, and we had a couple people stand us up, and so now my office is physically just a few blocks from the manpower office in Newcastle. And so now um when we set up an interview, the Newcastle team calls my office when the interviewee shows up.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So by the time they get their coat off or figure out where they are, right? I Lori and I drive over from the office. So no wasted time, nope, working hand in hand. That's the like the local connection where we know people and uh can can stay in there. Oh, and one thing uh that I didn't tell you in my early career, I worked for manpower. Um not as a manpower employee, but as a manpower um somebody who was being served by manpower. When I was uh 19 years old back in the early 70s, the um I had a regular job, but these jobs unloading semis paid about 20 cents an hour more than my regular job. And so they would call me, my regular job would let me take some time off, and I'd go unload a semi and come back to work. So I've been dealing with manpower for a long time.
SPEAKER_02:I'm glad you mentioned that because I almost let slip one of the things I do every podcast, and that's ask you about your very first job.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. One of my early that wasn't my very first, but it was certainly very early. Um my very first job, I was a caddy at the Rheinblick golf course in Wiesbaden, Germany. And um caddying was that's why I don't play golf. It smells like work.
SPEAKER_02:How much did they how much now typically when you caddy at a at a golf course, the club charges a caddy fee, but then where you make your money is the tip. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, over there, um I made three dollars and fifty cents for 18 holes. Okay. And if I got 350, and if I got a if they bought me a soda at the turn at the ninth hole, or um if I got a quarter or a 50 cent tip at the end, that was an awesome day.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I um I like to play golf, and I we didn't use caddies, but I was on a recent trip. I've been a couple of times to Pinehurst, which is a great big golf mech in this country. And uh the it was it was like um maybe a hundred or so for the caddy fee, but then the recommended tip on top of that was about eighty bucks. Yeah. And uh so those guys can make some pretty good money today, especially if you're at a at a at a high-end place like Pinehurst.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe I should be a caddy sometime.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. You like you like being around golf. You just don't like to play golf. Yes. Hey, you know, and if you like to take a walk, there we go. Yeah, you can get in probably anywhere from I'd say four to seven miles easily if you walk an entire golf course.
SPEAKER_01:Well, the very few times that um I have played golf, it's a very long walk because I'm in the rough over there, and then I'm in the rough over there. I I don't walk the fairways.
SPEAKER_02:Zigzag. Well, something new I've started doing on this uh podcast, I started just based upon whom I'm interviewing, I came up with some random questions. Okay. Random questions. So we'll wrap this up.
SPEAKER_01:So my first one is tell us about your floral shirts. My floral shirts. Okay. So for many, many years I traveled. I wore suits all the time. I wore suits every day. And um I was in Hong Kong enough that I had my um had all my suits made in Hong Kong. Uh the guy that I went to in Hong Kong, in fact, he comes to Indianapolis every couple of years. So you can get stuff done there. And um when I retired, um, I got rid of them. I just got rid of all the suits. And they were all, all my suits were gray, my shirts were all custom made and white, you know, cufflinks and uh any suit, any shirt, any tie, they all went together. I could get dressed in the dark. Um started wearing Hawaiian shirts, and I have about 70 of them. And this is the one that was on the left end this morning. You can just start Yeah, I just circulate them around. When I wash them, I hang them on the right, I wear the one on the left. And so I don't it um it eliminates a whole level of small decisions. I've got a lot of stuff in my head, and that's one decision I don't have to make. I just get up and put it on away.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's kind of your trademark thing. Yeah. Sort of really pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00:And every Wednesday in BI, I get excited because I'm like, what one is he gonna have on this week? I told Michael today, I said, you know what would have been really fun is if we would have worn Hawaiian shirts.
SPEAKER_01:Hawaiian shirts, too. If you had worn a Hawaiian shirt and I had gone out and rented a suit, that would have worked.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you have an ongoing guest with you at the BI meetings. Please share.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, um Sam. Uh Sam is uh about a nine-pound little poodle. Uh Sam was my wife's dog, and when she passed, she um told me that I needed to take care of Sam. So I take Sam to work with me most days, and he's kind of the office dog. Um he's uh not a bad desk dog. If I'm working a lot at my desk, I can just set him on the end of the desk and he'll lay down and go to sleep. And so I just take care of Sam and uh so he comes to BI with me and he takes up a chair and he sits at the highest.
SPEAKER_02:People really love it when they see dogs in those settings, don't they? They do nuts. They do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and he's a good little guy.
SPEAKER_02:So Yeah. I I I don't want everybody on my staff bringing their dog to work. Yeah. But I I have my wife and I we have a dog now, but she's quite elderly. She's over 17. Oh. And uh she can not does not travel well. But I always thought if I got another dog that I might make him or her an office dog. Yeah. And I can do that because I'm the boss.
SPEAKER_01:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:I I can do that because if I want to, I can. So there are good things about being the office. Yeah, so that that may happen. Just stay tuned on that.
SPEAKER_00:So Sam gets a little bit, I'm sorry, Sam gets a little bit nervous when Gary will get up to speak, and Sam gets really anxious when Gary's not around. Very, very attached. Attached. Just attached. Very much so.
SPEAKER_02:I want to ask you a little bit about wind turbines, solar panels, and also about a 585-acre data center.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:I I and we can explore some of the listeners and followers may not know it's about this data center, but I I think it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So we'll talk about the panels and the turbines.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So in industrial wind turbines and uh industrial grade solar systems, um when they come to a community, they are not economically viable unless they can encroach on the property rights of neighboring properties. So they all have those two things have um annoyances that get at the neighbors, right? Uh industrial wind turbines uh have infrasound, which is sound that's at a level below what you can hear, but that you can perceive. And the sound waves tend to be about 15 feet long. How big is your bedroom? 12 or 13 by 14 or 15, right? It becomes an echo chamber for infrasound that you can't hear but that makes your heart race. So it disturbs sleep for neighbors. And in order to stay away from it, um, you have to be like a mile and a quarter away. So that means your the guy with the wind turbine would have to have a mile and a quarter setback. So what the turbine companies do is they try to get the local governments to uh establish the setbacks at a thousand feet, which is nowhere near a mile and a quarter, and they set them not from the property line but from the neighboring house's foundation. Yeah. So they're using your property as their setback. And that means that there are places on your property where you can't build. If you want to build a bedroom on for a kid or to bring in-laws, build an in-law suite or whatever, you can't build that on your own property because it violates their setback on your property. So you have to have special zoning and all that. It's it's a terrible, terrible thing. And we stopped it in Henry County by pushing property rights. So I'm huge on property rights. You can do anything you want on your property. I really don't care. As long as nothing crosses the property line. Right? The one thing that everybody complains about is view. I don't want to see it. But my view right stops at my property line. Right? Not on your property. The fact that your property is ugly is neither here nor there to me because I can put up a fence and not look. So it's all about property rights. And if you're gonna use my property rights for your profit, you you need to pay me. You need to buy my property, you need to guarantee my property value. All of those things. So that's industrial wind turbines. Flicker, you know, it's got this big thing going around, causes a shadow. How would you like a shadow every 17 seconds over your property? It's just terrible. Um industrial-based solar um does the same thing. It makes a lot of noise, it's a loud hum. And they'll say, Oh, well, it it's no louder than say a refrigerator running or whatever. Well, oh okay, but your refrigerator runs for a few seconds or a minute and stops. How would you like to have this at your bedroom window 24 hours a day? Right? The crinkling sound because of changes in temperature and uh metal expanding and contracting, etc. So and flicker um or glitter from solar with the sun reflecting off of them as they move or whatever. So it as long as you keep it all on your property, I'm okay with that. And that gets us to the data centers. Now, there are a lot of people who are really, really fighting the data centers, and there are some legitimate reasons to fight them.
SPEAKER_02:So let me but for for those that might be you know um listening or watching, um I brought brought this up because there's this proposed five hundred-five-acre uh data center that's being discussed in Henry County. And 585 acres is is kind of a lot of space. Kind of a lot. It's a lot of space, it's a lot of space. And there's not going to be a lot of people employed by this. Yeah. However, I I don't I think places like this n are necessary. But I I don't I don't I don't know if I'm for it or against it. I just I just it's newsworthy right now. At least when we're making this recording today, it's newsworthy because I don't know which way it's gonna go. And I I just it's it's just interesting, you know, because areas like Newcastle and and Richmond and Portland, where we are, and and Connorsville, we are communities that you could say are just kind of getting by, or in some cases you make a case that they're struggling, and things like this come up, and you don't want to pass on any opportunity. But is it really good for the long term for the community? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:There's a whole range of responses, really. There's a there's the NIMBY response, right? Not in my backyard. I don't want anything in my backyard.
SPEAKER_00:I like that.
SPEAKER_01:Um and if you look at, and this is a challenge in Henry County, if you look at the county master plan, because that's where these things start, right? If you're gonna do something new or different or whatever in a community, you go, hey, what's your master plan? The Henry County master plan has a push for farming. They don't want to take prime farmland out of farm production, right? Because you gotta eat. So so that's a big thing. So does it fit in the master plan? If it fits in the master plan, then there are a whole bunch of other questions. If it just flat doesn't fit in the master plan, then uh a legitimate answer is no. Um if it fits or could fit in the master plan, then it's okay, what happens at the property line? And then it's uh the proper property line up and the property line you gotta go down too, right? Because there's water rights involved. And these data centers need cooling. And a lot of them pull water from the aquifer to cool. Now, some of them put that water back. Here's the challenge. Uh the word of the day is turbidity.
SPEAKER_00:Turbidity.
SPEAKER_01:Turbidity, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:Turbidity.
SPEAKER_01:Water in an aquifer moves from a few feet per day to a few feet per year. So very slow moving water. So all the solids settle out. So then if you even if you take, let's say you take a hundred thousand gallons or a million gallons out a day, but you dump it all right back in, suddenly you've got a million gallons moving very fast through what is normally really slow water. Now all your neighbors across those property lines in their wells, they have all this ancient sediment that's stirred up. So the answer is no. Because you can't cross the property line. You can't have an impact go across the property line. It's just not right. Just don't do it. So, do they do above ground radiator type um cooling? So, like a car engine. Oh, okay, do that. But that requires a fan and that creates noise. Does that noise increase the ambient noise level at the property line? Not at your house, but at their property line, because you have to keep all of their impacts on their property. So you have to have a big enough property, 500 acres, whatever. Yeah. Oh, can you take that much farmland? See? Go to the master plan. Go to the master plan. So you have to have enough property to have enough of a setback from the property line so that it doesn't impact the neighbors. So you've got the noise, turbidity, traffic, um, and um then there's energy usage. How are they getting their energy? Are they pulling it off of the grid? So if you start pulling that much energy off of the grid, what does that do to the pricing, the spot pricing for the local REMC or local for the neighbors, right? Because you can't have any of those impacts across the property line. So they're going to create their own energy, right? So they're going to use some kind of a turbine engine or big uh uh semi-uh truck 12-cylinder engines to uh turn generators to create their own energy. Great. That causes noise. Right. And then it causes more traffic because you have to bring in fuel or you have to tap to a gas line, or and what does that do? Because you can't have any bad thing cross the property line. If you can manage all of that and put enough teeth in it so that for the life of the facility, it's less expensive for them to follow the rules than to violate the neighbors, then go ahead. But if you can't, then the answer is no.
SPEAKER_02:Do you think the data center will get passed or not? Uh I don't know if that's something that you care not to have comments.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if that one will. Um I know that some of the elected officials, people that I know, there are some people on both sides. Um they uh the ones that are on the side of maybe it could go in, uh they are very, very interested in ensuring that the neighbors that that no impacts cross property lines. Um there are some people who say, you know, that whole industry uh, because they're mostly built for AI, um, that whole AI thing, uh we just don't want that here. So we don't want to do it. I think there are things to be said on both sides. Uh but if you if they allow it and any impact crosses a property line, I would be 100% against it.
SPEAKER_02:I know the mayor spoke in favor of it. Um and I think he's fairly popular there. I have I have heard that, but it's this is not in Newcastle.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So not it's in the county, but not in Newcastle. It's not in Newcastle. It's at 109 and I-70. And maybe what they need to do is change the master plan to put an industrial corridor along I-70. Maybe that's a legit way to go.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And make some changes and put some real teeth. I'm I'm talking, you know,$100,000 a day penalties for having any impact cross the property line. Because you always have to take care of the neighbors. Because that guy's got every right to his property to be completely unmolested.
SPEAKER_02:You've obviously given a lot of thought to this and done a lot of research.
SPEAKER_01:We worked we worked really hard on it around wind turbines, and it's it's made me a real proponent for property rights. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I always like to, you know, the say it up front, this is just my opinion. But I I've just never been a big fan of the tur the wind turbines and the solar panels. I don't like for me, I I don't like how they encroach on the property, and I just simply don't like the way they look. I don't like the way they look. And that's from aesthetics alone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's the view thing, and that's the one thing that uh I apologize for saying it this way, but that's the one thing that's none of your business. Right? That's the property owner's view. Your view is how your house looks. Right. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I guess we won't take any more trips up and show our grandkids the big wind turbines anymore. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, there's a certain part of the turbines that I think are kind of interesting to see. And they're kind of right up with the thing. I drive up to sh uh Chicago to see my my son Peter and his family. I mean, we pass a lot of people. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01:Well, the bad thing is that they never produce enough electricity to pay for themselves or to offset the carbon footprint of their manufacture and installation and operation. And so if they actually did anything good, it might be worth the trouble. But they don't. They simply don't. And um, you probably uh have seen in the news there this$2.2 billion solar farm out in California that was recent recently shut down because it was never viable. Uh the only thing that makes industrial wind turbines and industrial solar viable is the government credits. So it's not really doing any good. It's credit farming. And people are just taking your money, it's given to the government, lining their pockets, and putting out a product that never does what it's supposed to do.
SPEAKER_02:If you slept it up to the private sector, then let them figure out a way to make it profitable.
unknown:Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Pull the credits. Pull the credits. And if it's viable, if you've really got a better mouse trap, it'll go. And if you don't, then it won't. I think we should get rid of the credits altogether. Um I believe I heard Warren Buffett say that if it weren't for the credits, they wouldn't be worth it.
SPEAKER_02:So you've traveled around the world. I have. And uh but what place have you not been to that still is kind of on your list, if you have the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01:So on if you go east from the US to New Delhi or Agra, where the Taj Mahal is, um, I've been that far. If you go west from the US to Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, to that far, there's a little skinny piece I've never crossed. I want to get across that.
SPEAKER_00:So that I've You need to make that happen, Gary.
SPEAKER_01:So that I could go completely around. Around the world. Around the world.
unknown:Very cool.
SPEAKER_00:That's very cool.
SPEAKER_02:So besides that little stretch of land to kind of wrap things up, what's next for Gary? What's next for you?
SPEAKER_01:Uh what's next is uh in about two weeks, I'm going to Grandparents' Day at my grand at my grandson's school. Nice. Which is awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Those are the best.
SPEAKER_01:Uh so I'm gonna I'm gonna do that. And um Um my daughter who lives in Saudi Arabia is coming to the US for Christmas this year because her son, my grandson, works at the Defense Finance Center in Indianapolis. So they're coming for Christmas. I'm looking forward to that. So it's um uh you know, and I have uh another grandson who's nine who likes to spend the weekend at my house sometimes. So we're looking forward to that. Yeah, that's the stuff, man.
SPEAKER_00:That's the best.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's our collective thing that we all have, is we all have grandchildren and we love them to death and we like to spend time with them.
SPEAKER_01:So that's the real stuff right there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I actually was not at work yesterday because I was with uh grandson and granddaughter at an apple orchard. So that was it was uh wonderful time to get to spend with them. So yeah, those are uh you gotta take advantage of them while they're out there, don't we? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:I always say we love our kids, but we love our grandkids.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly right.
SPEAKER_00:It's a different kind of love.
SPEAKER_02:That's right. Well, Gary, thank you for sitting down with us. It was wonderful to have this chat with you and uh uh just uh appreciate uh the opportunity to get to know you more and uh the great things that that you're doing at your company and and uh just the thoughtfulness that you've put behind when you know when you bought that and the things that you're trying to do for your clients. I think that's great. And and uh um you've uh done a lot of great things and had some experiences, and it's been really fun to hear about them. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate that. Thank you. And we um we can't thank Manpower enough for the support that you've given us, and uh, you really are a part of our success uh in some ways that uh continue on over time, and I appreciate it very much.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:That's all for this episode of The Hub. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time for another conversation with a difference maker from our region. Manpower is proud to support the hub. Find out how they can support your business at mprichmond.com.